Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:18 AM - Re: Turtle Deck from Blue Sky Aviation (Dee Young)
2. 07:01 AM - Superflight address (Fox5flyer)
3. 07:13 AM - Superflight (Fox5flyer)
4. 07:13 AM - I've got it (Fox5flyer)
5. 07:15 AM - Re: I've got it (Fox5flyer)
6. 07:21 AM - Insurance Company (Howard Firm)
7. 07:44 AM - Re: Turtle Deck (Norm Beauchamp)
8. 11:15 AM - Re: Insurance Company (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
9. 12:09 PM - Re: Insurance Company (Howard Firm)
10. 02:00 PM - Re: Insurance Company (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
11. 03:11 PM - Re: Insurance Company (Howard Firm)
12. 03:13 PM - I expect to receive my Grove landing gear any day and am considering painting it (Rex & Jan Shaw)
13. 03:20 PM - I have a question. The answers about the gear finish are interesting. I (Rex & Jan Shaw)
14. 03:30 PM - I am pulling the 532 and switching to a 582 oil injected engine. I have the bump (Rex & Jan Shaw)
15. 04:06 PM - Re pre mixed (Rex & Jan Shaw)
16. 04:22 PM - Re: Re pre mixed (shortnaked)
17. 04:22 PM - Re: Re pre mixed (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
18. 05:49 PM - Re: Re pre mixed (Jose M. Toro)
19. 07:21 PM - Re: 582 Oil Injection Access (Guy Buchanan)
20. 10:07 PM - Re: pennzoil (Norm Beauchamp)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Turtle Deck from Blue Sky Aviation |
Seal-Send-Time: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 07:17:47 -0700
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
It is solid - no hinge and no window. I did not like the window and hinge so I
changed it out during the building. I never hear a drumming sound during take
off or during flight but I do hear a drumming sound just right after touch down.
The duration is probably a second and I never hear it at any other time. I
have always believed it to be a slight decompression of the cabin.
Dee Young
N345DY
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Jimmie Blackwell<mailto:jablackwell@ev1.net>
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 9:58 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Turtle Deck from Blue Sky Aviation
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" <jablackwell@ev1.net<mailto:jablackwell@ev1.net>>
By solid do you mean without the hinge in the middle? I am looking for a
way to stiffen mine because it sure makes a lot of noise in flight. I think
that is because of the hinge.
Jimmie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com<mailto:henrysfork1@msn.com>>
To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Turtle Deck from Blue Sky Aviation
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com<mailto:henrysfork1@msn.com>>
>
> Jimmie, if it helps I installed a one piece solid aluminum that was built
by Skystar for the Light 2. It has worked out well
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jimmie Blackwell<mailto:jablackwell@ev1.net<mailto:jablackwell@ev1.net>>
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>>
> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 8:54 AM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Turtle Deck from Blue Sky Aviation
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell"
<jablackwell@ev1.net<mailto:jablackwell@ev1.net<mailto:jablackwell@ev1.net<mailto:jablackwell@ev1.net>>>
>
> Is there anyone that has installed the one piece Turtle Deck made by
Blue Sky Aviation? Did it work out ok?
>
> Thanks
> Jimmie
>
>
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| Subject: | Superflight address |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Anybody have a web address or phone number for Superflight paints? Not sure
about the spelling. It might be Superflyte. Can't find anything on a web
search.
Darrel
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Never mind. Found it.
Thanks,
Darrel
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Good morning Don. All is same here. Nothing new. Great weather but very
cold at night. Looks like a good fly day. Might go somewhere.
Deke
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Sorry bout dat. Not meant for the list. I think I need a nap...
Darrel
Subject: I've got it
> Good morning Don. All is same here. Nothing new. Great weather but very
> cold at night. Looks like a good fly day. Might go somewhere.
> Deke
>
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| Subject: | Insurance Company |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Howard Firm" <pianome2@mchsi.com>
Thought I'd give out this company's name....They gave me very good quotes.
SkySmith
518 SW 3rd St, Suite B
Ankeny, IA 50021
Voice: 800-743-1439, 515-289-1439, Fax: 773-326-0690
www.skysmith.com
Howard Firm
508 12th St. South
Virginia MN 55792
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Message 7
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Norm Beauchamp <nebchmp@wcc.net>
The subject of oil canning of the turtle deck was discussed when I was
at that point of building. I have the factory, no hinge type. My fix
was to put four ninety degree aluminum .064 angles on each side attached
with pop rivets. Solid rivets would have looked neater. The length has
to vary from the upper one to the lower one. I have had no oil canning
of the turtle deck so far. Norm
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| Subject: | Re: Insurance Company |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
I<< Thought I'd give out this company's name....They gave me very good
quotes. >>
Do they cover bird strikes? Hee Hee Sorry Howard, couldn't resist.
Do Not Archive
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
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| Subject: | Re: Insurance Company |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Howard Firm" <pianome2@mchsi.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: <AlbertaIV@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Insurance Company
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
> I<< Thought I'd give out this company's name....They gave me very good
> quotes. >>
>
> Do they cover bird strikes? Hee Hee Sorry Howard, couldn't resist.
>
They said they did!!! I came very close to hitting a deer on landing a week
ago!!!
Howard Firm
508 12th St. South
Virginia MN 55792
Do Not Archive
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Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Insurance Company |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
<< They said they did!!! I came very close to hitting a deer on landing a week
ago!!!
Howard Firm
508 12th St. South
Virginia MN 55792 >>
Well, at least you're moving up on tonnage. Don't forget to insure for
replacement value. Sure glad you made out last time.
Do Not Archive
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
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Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Insurance Company |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Howard Firm" <pianome2@mchsi.com>
From: <AlbertaIV@aol.com>
>
> Well, at least you're moving up on tonnage. Don't forget to insure for
> replacement value. Sure glad you made out last time.
>
> Do Not Archive
>
> Don Smythe
> N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Yeah, three deer on the side of the grass strip...I did 2 low fly-by's to
see if I could spook them a little farther away....they were abot 50' off to
the right...So of course when I land, one of them starts running across the
runway...I went to the right as far as I could and then saw her on my
left....crossed in front of me with 100' feet to spare!
Howard Firm
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Message 12
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| Subject: | I expect to receive my Grove landing gear any day and am |
considering painting it
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
I expect to receive my Grove landing gear any day and am considering
painting it
Mine is powder coated and is holding up well.
Rex.
rexjan@bigpond.com
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Message 13
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| Subject: | I have a question. The answers about the gear finish are |
interesting. I
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
I have a question. The answers about the gear finish are interesting. I
know that the aluminum spring gear is heat treated. Does anyone know if the
heat needed to cure powder coating affects the heat treatment and affect
spring qualities or strength?
Mine is powder coated and quite Ok. I imagine that bit of heat to cure the
paint is not likely to be a problem. Mine was done by the original builder
who is a mechanical engineer. You would think he would know what he is doing
even if the paint shop didn't.
Rex.
rexjan@bigpond.com
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Message 14
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| Subject: | I am pulling the 532 and switching to a 582 oil injected |
engine. I have the bump
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
I am pulling the 532 and switching to a 582 oil injected engine. I have the
bump
cowling and would like to ask where you mounted the oil tank.
Mine is on the firewall. It is about 3 litres and I have 100 litres fuel
capacity. Oil consumption averages 50 to 1 so I only fill it when
refuelling. Therefore it's time to lift the cowling anyway to check things.
Otherwise you should be lifting your cowling when you do your daily
inspection in any case and can do it them. I see no problems but your
quantity of oil must be at least 50% more than you will use on full tanks at
50 to 1.
Rex.
rexjan@bigpond.com
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Message 15
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
I write "had" because I have been advised to mix the oil in the tanks. Which
I
have done for the past two years and the oil tank has been removed
There is a never ending discussion on this subject. One can say that if you
premix you cannot run out of oil. That is not actually so though even though
it would appear to be ludicrous to say so. Consider this if you can and do
close your throttle fairly well on a long descent, the motor will still be
doing say 3 to 4,000 due to windmilling. Now if you have premix you are not
getting enough oil at those RPM's after a while. The alternative is the
injection pump. This measures the oil supplied on both RPM's and throttle
opening. OK lets say the throttle opening is zero so we get no oil injection
on that score BUT we do have quite a few RPM's and get enough oil on that
score to lubricate things properly.
If you choose premix you find mixing especially at the bowser a bit of a
chore. You also need to be much more conscious of the oil and fuel
compatabillitty. The problem with oil injection is if it fails. Well
forget that as it's the least likely bit to do so if you do it right and
check everything when you do your daily inspection. The other thing is if
you run out of oil before you run out of fuel. Well running out of fuel in a
plane is not an option so why is running out of oil ? In any case you
should set up your pump correctly according to instructions. It's simple
enough ! You will then have an average oil use of 50 to 1 so if if like me
you have 100 litres of fuel then you need a 3 litre oil reservoir. I used to
race highly modified 2 stroke engines for many years and we all removed the
oil injection and ran premix, BUT this is a different situation. So if
someone in that situation suggests because they throw out their oil
injection so you should too, then just consider my explanation for yourself.
Oil injection in an aircraft 2 stroke is ideal and I can't see how you can
beat it really. I hope this helps anyone not sure which way to go to be able
to work it out for themselves and so feel happy they have made the right
decision rather than just listen to anothers decision.
Rex
Australia.
Rotax 582 UL 99
rexjan@bigpond.com
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Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Re pre mixed |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
Rex , Well said !!
Oil injecton on the 582 is more reliable than the crank and rod bearings
IMO.
Oil injection is 99% fool proof -- the 1 % is the idiot that forgets to
put the oil in the bottle.
suzuki outboards run a nice set up -- float in oil tank to tell you when
oil gets low and after it hits next sensor it outs on the REV limiter so
you cannot rev over 2500 rpm unless you hold reset button.
but hey that better than running at 6000 rpm and finding out that you gas
has no lubricating properties .
Shorty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re pre mixed
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
>
> I write "had" because I have been advised to mix the oil in the tanks.
Which
> I
> have done for the past two years and the oil tank has been removed
>
> There is a never ending discussion on this subject. One can say that if
you
> premix you cannot run out of oil. That is not actually so though even
though
> it would appear to be ludicrous to say so. Consider this if you can and do
> close your throttle fairly well on a long descent, the motor will still be
> doing say 3 to 4,000 due to windmilling. Now if you have premix you are
not
> getting enough oil at those RPM's after a while. The alternative is the
> injection pump. This measures the oil supplied on both RPM's and throttle
> opening. OK lets say the throttle opening is zero so we get no oil
injection
> on that score BUT we do have quite a few RPM's and get enough oil on that
> score to lubricate things properly.
> If you choose premix you find mixing especially at the bowser a bit of a
> chore. You also need to be much more conscious of the oil and fuel
> compatabillitty. The problem with oil injection is if it fails. Well
> forget that as it's the least likely bit to do so if you do it right and
> check everything when you do your daily inspection. The other thing is if
> you run out of oil before you run out of fuel. Well running out of fuel in
a
> plane is not an option so why is running out of oil ? In any case you
> should set up your pump correctly according to instructions. It's simple
> enough ! You will then have an average oil use of 50 to 1 so if if like me
> you have 100 litres of fuel then you need a 3 litre oil reservoir. I used
to
> race highly modified 2 stroke engines for many years and we all removed
the
> oil injection and ran premix, BUT this is a different situation. So if
> someone in that situation suggests because they throw out their oil
> injection so you should too, then just consider my explanation for
yourself.
> Oil injection in an aircraft 2 stroke is ideal and I can't see how you can
> beat it really. I hope this helps anyone not sure which way to go to be
able
> to work it out for themselves and so feel happy they have made the right
> decision rather than just listen to anothers decision.
> Rex
> Australia.
> Rotax 582 UL 99
> rexjan@bigpond.com
>
>
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Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Re pre mixed |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 11/14/04 4:07:51 PM Pacific Standard Time,
rexjan@bigpond.com writes:
<< beat it really. I hope this helps anyone not sure which way to go to be
able
to work it out for themselves and so feel happy they have made the right
decision rather than just listen to anothers decision.
Rex
Australia. >>
Rex,
Excellent points. I read half your post and ran to the airport to remove
my oil injection system. Once back home, I read the other half and ran back
to the airport and reinstalled the thing. I think I will keep it.
Good points
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Do Not Archive
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Message 18
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s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=thFE0cnFlhCWd4DZS7hqyGf/zKXtVH7RmDyUJGyP+Hu68+jm5KE7W5UIJxrY44JfIftYrYc5QlGmp3PYGbxjnpW1KTw5J+SelCDURDzK8ysC8/4Eiyt9lJL80OYUeaJnCiQ/x0mhGKGi2DVFPp1zGTmxr1LeZkTKM9T1FRLn+D4=
;
| Subject: | Re: Re pre mixed |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
Shorty:
In addition to the 1% idiot related failures, there is a tiny plastic hose in the
oil pump system of the 582 that you must watch. Believe me, I have seen it
failing, and was very expensive to fix after the crash.
If you remove the oil system, you are eliminating a point of failure, unless you
forget to do the pre-mix. In that case, it will be 100% idiot related...and
I have seen it happen too.
Rex:
If you do a long descent, you must open the throttle occasionally not only to provide
lubrication but also to avoid a thermal shock.
shortnaked <shortnaked@golden.net> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked"
Rex , Well said !!
Oil injecton on the 582 is more reliable than the crank and rod bearings
IMO.
Oil injection is 99% fool proof -- the 1 % is the idiot that forgets to
put the oil in the bottle.
suzuki outboards run a nice set up -- float in oil tank to tell you when
oil gets low and after it hits next sensor it outs on the REV limiter so
you cannot rev over 2500 rpm unless you hold reset button.
but hey that better than running at 6000 rpm and finding out that you gas
has no lubricating properties .
Shorty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rex & Jan Shaw"
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re pre mixed
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw"
>
> I write "had" because I have been advised to mix the oil in the tanks.
Which
> I
> have done for the past two years and the oil tank has been removed
>
> There is a never ending discussion on this subject. One can say that if
you
> premix you cannot run out of oil. That is not actually so though even
though
> it would appear to be ludicrous to say so. Consider this if you can and do
> close your throttle fairly well on a long descent, the motor will still be
> doing say 3 to 4,000 due to windmilling. Now if you have premix you are
not
> getting enough oil at those RPM's after a while. The alternative is the
> injection pump. This measures the oil supplied on both RPM's and throttle
> opening. OK lets say the throttle opening is zero so we get no oil
injection
> on that score BUT we do have quite a few RPM's and get enough oil on that
> score to lubricate things properly.
> If you choose premix you find mixing especially at the bowser a bit of a
> chore. You also need to be much more conscious of the oil and fuel
> compatabillitty. The problem with oil injection is if it fails. Well
> forget that as it's the least likely bit to do so if you do it right and
> check everything when you do your daily inspection. The other thing is if
> you run out of oil before you run out of fuel. Well running out of fuel in
a
> plane is not an option so why is running out of oil ? In any case you
> should set up your pump correctly according to instructions. It's simple
> enough ! You will then have an average oil use of 50 to 1 so if if like me
> you have 100 litres of fuel then you need a 3 litre oil reservoir. I used
to
> race highly modified 2 stroke engines for many years and we all removed
the
> oil injection and ran premix, BUT this is a different situation. So if
> someone in that situation suggests because they throw out their oil
> injection so you should too, then just consider my explanation for
yourself.
> Oil injection in an aircraft 2 stroke is ideal and I can't see how you can
> beat it really. I hope this helps anyone not sure which way to go to be
able
> to work it out for themselves and so feel happy they have made the right
> decision rather than just listen to anothers decision.
> Rex
> Australia.
> Rotax 582 UL 99
> rexjan@bigpond.com
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: 582 Oil Injection Access |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
Kevin,
Polyethelene oil tank, about 4 liters, on firewall top centerline
behind the engine. I think it's a standard bracket and tank available from
Skystar. There is a custom door above it identical to a Cessna 150 oil fill
access door. A fiberglass flange was laid and released from inside the cowl
at the access door location. Then the door was cut and faired. Then the
flange was bonded to the inside of the cowl. Then the door was set in with
release tape and the edge filled to look neat. Then a hinge was installed
along one edge with flush rivits and a Cessna door latch at the other end.
Very neat.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Norm Beauchamp <nebchmp@wcc.net>
AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 10/21/04 4:02:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
>pulsair@mindspring.com writes:
>
><< I can get the Pennzoil Marine Stabilizer for the fuel. Lockwood charges
> about $3 a pint. Do you think CarQuest would order it? Thanks, Jeff 912UL >>
>
> Go to "oil-store.com" <http://www.oil-store.com>for many aviation oils. They also carry a lot of
>Pennzoil products. I recommended this to a hanger mate the other day. He came
>back a couple days later with his box from "oil-store". They ship very fast
>and he stated that he saved about a dollar per quart with the shipping cost.
>I've used them several times and they are great. Oil shows up on your door
>step by UPS almost as fast as you get off the order "send" key.
> Don't forget the "-" between oil and store. "in oil-store.com". I just
>glanced at the site under marine. They have some sort of Pennzoil stabilizer
>listed.
>
>Don Smythe
>N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
>
>
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