Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:50 AM - Re: Re backup pump (Don and Rex) (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
2. 03:51 AM - Re: Fuel gravity flow (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
3. 03:51 AM - Re: I am pulling the 532 and switching to a 582 oil injected eng... (shortnaked)
4. 04:40 AM - Backup for Mikuni pump (Fox5flyer)
5. 05:09 AM - Re: Backup for Mikuni pump (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
6. 05:11 AM - Sport Pilot (LeRoy staley)
7. 05:41 AM - Re: Sport Pilot (Jose M. Toro)
8. 06:09 AM - lighting system (Lynn Matteson)
9. 07:00 AM - Re: Sport Pilot (dave)
10. 07:16 AM - Fw: I am pulling the 532 and switching to a 582 oil injected eng... (shortnaked)
11. 07:44 AM - Re: Spar Cleaner/Degreaser (customtrans@qwest.net)
12. 08:04 AM - Re: Backup for Mikuni pump (Fox5flyer)
13. 08:21 AM - Re: lighting system (customtrans@qwest.net)
14. 08:31 AM - Re: Sport Pilot (LeRoy staley)
15. 09:15 AM - Re: Sport Pilot (dave)
16. 09:23 AM - Re: Sport Pilot (Jose M. Toro)
17. 09:40 AM - Re: Backup for Mikuni pump (Jose M. Toro)
18. 10:55 AM - Re: Backup for Mikuni pump (shortnaked)
19. 12:02 PM - Re: lighting system (Lynn Matteson)
20. 12:51 PM - Re: lighting system (customtrans@qwest.net)
21. 03:40 PM - Re: Backup for Mikuni pump (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
22. 04:21 PM - Further thoughts re backup pumps (Rex & Jan Shaw)
23. 04:25 PM - ruptured impulse line (shortnaked)
24. 04:25 PM - Re: lighting system (Lynn Matteson)
25. 05:26 PM - Re: lighting system (customtrans@qwest.net)
26. 06:20 PM - 912S exhaust temperature and N10NH Flys! (Randy Daughenbaugh)
27. 06:29 PM - Re: 912S exhaust temperature and N10NH Flys! (Don Pearsall)
28. 06:52 PM - Re: 912S exhaust temperature and N10NH Flys! (jdmcbean)
29. 07:17 PM - Re: Backup for Mikuni pump (Jose M. Toro)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Re backup pump (Don and Rex) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 11/17/04 6:18:13 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jose_m_toro@yahoo.com writes:
<< line. I never before thought about this side effect!!! If you add the
check valve suggested by Don to the pulse line of the mikuni pump, and use the
parallel configuration that Rex and I suggest, would not this solve the
problem? At least, I >>
Jose,
I meant to put a check valve at the output of the pulse pump so it would
prevent the bypass fuel from getting back into the pulse pump. On the other
hand, forget that because the input line is still hooked up.
I don't "think" a check valve in the pulse line will work. Just guessing
but that line requires a push/pull pulse to operate the diaphragm. A check
valve would kill either the push or the pull.
This discussion of the fuel pump is not a new one. Some of it's coming
back to me. I talked to Bing once on this subject and they suggested that
their carbs could be modified to all operation with gravity only. Had something
to do with enlarging the input or something like that. As I said, JR already
tried removing the pump and it seems he was close to achieving a gravity only
system (no pulse pump).
On the diaphragm rupture thing,,,,,I would bet by the time you realize
you have a ruptured diaphragm, it will be too late to twist a valve, select a
bypass or, turn on a pump.
As mentioned, the pulse pump is a very reliable part of the engine. This
discussion is just to open peoples mind and possible find a better solution
to the pump and increase safety. Folks, that is what experimental is all
about. This discussion also opens up all the little side effects, pros/cons and
installation problems when backup elec pumps are added. Everytime I thought I
had a good ideal, someone could point out a side effect that hadn't entered
my mind. This List is a sanity check for all wonderful ideas.
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel gravity flow |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 11/17/04 7:26:44 AM Pacific Standard Time,
turboflyer@comcast.net writes:
<< Don, that is correct. The Ellison will provide adequate fuel at lower power
setting but unless you have one of the really boys a 4 or 5 you need the
extra pressure to provide more fuel at high power settings. In fact with my
new engine I may be doing a delicate enlargement of the metering delivery
tube hole to provide even a bit more. I am not sure but I guess I could >>
Yes, Bing once told me an enlargement mod might do the trick on the Bing 54's
to allow gravity flow only. Interesting project.
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: I am pulling the 532 and switching to a 582 oil injected |
eng...
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
Bruce
Let design a triple bypass parrralell fuel system with digitalreadout on
flow and pressurealong with a angle of attack indicator and a loran c and
stormscope so i can spend more time worryiing that enjoying flying a nice
little bird without all that extra weight. LOL
Shorty :)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Harrington" <aerowood@mcsi.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: I am pulling the 532 and switching to a 582 oil
injected eng...
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" <aerowood@mcsi.net>
>
> Hi Dave S,
> My old 582ed IV-1200 also had the panel tank and a right wing tank. My
> panel tank only held 9 gallons.
> I ran 800+ hrs with only the Mikuni pump. Rebuilt the pump twice. Old
> parts looked new each time.
> bh
>
> > In mounting the fuel pumps in parallel, it seems to me that one might
need
> > one way valves to keep the fuel from flowing back through the
> > non-operating pump and back into the operating pump.
> >
> > BTW, I need a backup pump because my 10 gallon fuel tank is in front of
my
> > instrument panel and not in the wings. With this system, I have no
header
> > tank.
> >
> > Dave S
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Backup for Mikuni pump |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
I don't think there is any need to add a check valve to the Facet as it has
one internally. That's one less plumbing item needed.
This has been a good thread as it stimulates thought and inovation. We're
always looking for ways to improve the reliabilty of our powerplants and
it's discussions like this and the experimentation that follows that has
resulted in the excellent systems that we now enjoy--and they continue to
get better. Beating these topics to death is not a bad thing as it often
leads on to other interesting topics.
However, regarding the Mikuni pump. It's my opinion (not worth much) that
it's a very reliable pump and when the complexity, many extra leak points,
and weight is considered, I don't believe that adding a backup pump is worth
the effort. Those pumps rarely fail catastrophically (long word) without
giving warning early on. The moving membrane over (a long) time fatigues
which can result in small cracks around the edges of it where it contacts
the housing and begins to leak through creating a rich mix in the back
cylinder. This is something that is easily caught if one is taking plug
readings as often as they should. The mebranes are designed to last a very
long time and by using Bruce's method of rebuilding the pump at every annual
(easy and inexpensive) the potential of this membrane wearing out and
causing a problem is next to zero.
Nothing wrong with having a backup pump if that's what makes you feel more
comfortable, but I wouldn't get all worried about going to great lengths to
create something that might even create a climate for additional potential
problems.
Darrel
> << line. I never before thought about this side effect!!! If you add the
> check valve suggested by Don to the pulse line of the mikuni pump, and use
the
> parallel configuration that Rex and I suggest, would not this solve the
> problem? At least, I >>
>
> Jose,
> I meant to put a check valve at the output of the pulse pump so it
would
> prevent the bypass fuel from getting back into the pulse pump. On the
other
> hand, forget that because the input line is still hooked up.
> I don't "think" a check valve in the pulse line will work. Just
guessing
> but that line requires a push/pull pulse to operate the diaphragm. A
check
> valve would kill either the push or the pull.
> This discussion of the fuel pump is not a new one. Some of it's
coming
> back to me. I talked to Bing once on this subject and they suggested that
> their carbs could be modified to all operation with gravity only. Had
something
> to do with enlarging the input or something like that. As I said, JR
already
> tried removing the pump and it seems he was close to achieving a gravity
only
> system (no pulse pump).
> On the diaphragm rupture thing,,,,,I would bet by the time you realize
> you have a ruptured diaphragm, it will be too late to twist a valve,
select a
> bypass or, turn on a pump.
> As mentioned, the pulse pump is a very reliable part of the engine.
This
> discussion is just to open peoples mind and possible find a better
solution
> to the pump and increase safety. Folks, that is what experimental is all
> about. This discussion also opens up all the little side effects,
pros/cons and
> installation problems when backup elec pumps are added. Everytime I
thought I
> had a good ideal, someone could point out a side effect that hadn't
entered
> my mind. This List is a sanity check for all wonderful ideas.
>
> Don Smythe
> N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Backup for Mikuni pump |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 11/18/04 4:41:36 AM Pacific Standard Time,
morid@northland.lib.mi.us writes:
<< long time and by using Bruce's method of rebuilding the pump at every
annual
(easy and inexpensive) the potential of this membrane wearing out a >>
Good points Darrel. I've seen in several places that don't recommend
rebuilding the pumps. I often wondered why since they are pretty darn simple.
Also,
the cost of putting in a new one doesn't break the bank too bad. Any ideas
why the recommendation is out there "NOT" to rebuild. Maybe they are just
trying to sell more pumps?
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 6
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;
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: LeRoy staley <itis50@yahoo.com>
Does anyone know if we are able to derate an airplanes
gross weight? I have a Kitfox 5 that is presently
rated at 1500 gross.
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
Message 7
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
Once it is certified, it can't be derated.
LeRoy staley <itis50@yahoo.com> wrote:--> Kitfox-List message posted by: LeRoy
staley
Does anyone know if we are able to derate an airplanes
gross weight? I have a Kitfox 5 that is presently
rated at 1500 gross.
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
Jose M. Toro, P.E.
Kitfox II/582
"A slow flight in the Caribbean..."
---------------------------------
Message 8
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
I'm looking at the A600-PG-PR strobe/position lights in the Spruce
catalog, and wondering if these lights fit the requirements by FAA for
our KF's? This seems like the easiest lighting to install, (if not the
cheapest) in that it does away with the tail light requirement. Has
anybody used this lighting, and if so, are you happy with it? My
present plans call for VFR, day-only flights.
Lynn
Message 9
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
why would you want de- value your plane?
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Sport Pilot
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
>
> Once it is certified, it can't be derated.
>
> LeRoy staley <itis50@yahoo.com> wrote:--> Kitfox-List message posted by:
LeRoy staley
>
> Does anyone know if we are able to derate an airplanes
> gross weight? I have a Kitfox 5 that is presently
> rated at 1500 gross.
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://my.yahoo.com
>
>
> Jose M. Toro, P.E.
> Kitfox II/582
> "A slow flight in the Caribbean..."
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | I am pulling the 532 and switching to a 582 oil injected |
eng...
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
re send
----- Original Message -----
From: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: I am pulling the 532 and switching to a 582 oil
injected eng...
> Bruce
>
> Let design a triple bypass parrralell fuel system with digitalreadout on
> flow and pressurealong with a angle of attack indicator and a loran c and
> stormscope so i can spend more time worryiing that enjoying flying a nice
> little bird without all that extra weight. LOL
>
>
> Shorty :)
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bruce Harrington" <aerowood@mcsi.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 10:06 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: I am pulling the 532 and switching to a 582 oil
> injected eng...
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington"
<aerowood@mcsi.net>
> >
> > Hi Dave S,
> > My old 582ed IV-1200 also had the panel tank and a right wing tank. My
> > panel tank only held 9 gallons.
> > I ran 800+ hrs with only the Mikuni pump. Rebuilt the pump twice. Old
> > parts looked new each time.
> > bh
> >
> > > In mounting the fuel pumps in parallel, it seems to me that one might
> need
> > > one way valves to keep the fuel from flowing back through the
> > > non-operating pump and back into the operating pump.
> > >
> > > BTW, I need a backup pump because my 10 gallon fuel tank is in front
of
> my
> > > instrument panel and not in the wings. With this system, I have no
> header
> > > tank.
> > >
> > > Dave S
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Spar Cleaner/Degreaser |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
I've been reading denatured alcohol can be used.
steve a
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jimmie
Blackwell
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spar Cleaner/Degreaser
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" <jablackwell@ev1.net>
In Kitfox building you would use Poly Fiber 2210 Metsol. It is a good
degreaser.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy" <fultz@trip.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Spar Cleaner/Degreaser
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andy" <fultz@trip.net>
>
> O.K guys, I need your help.
>
> I posted this inquiry on the AVID list and did not get any help. AVID
sent
> with my kit "W-9" Cleaner/Degreaser to be used to clean the spar to rib
> joints before gluing. Who can tell me what the "Cleaner/Degreaser" is?
Is
> ACETONE acceptable? Seems that the stuff that was sent with the kit was
> almost like an etching cleaner. Thanks
>
> Andy
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Backup for Mikuni pump |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
> Good points Darrel. I've seen in several places that don't recommend
> rebuilding the pumps. I often wondered why since they are pretty darn
simple. Also,
> the cost of putting in a new one doesn't break the bank too bad. Any
ideas
> why the recommendation is out there "NOT" to rebuild. Maybe they are just
> trying to sell more pumps?
> Don Smythe
> N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
I'd say the last sentence is probably the correct one. However, the pumps
are relatively cheap and simple to replace. Probably even cheaper at a
snowmobile dealer.
D
Message 13
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
These are the lights I put on my kitfox4. They are approved for basically
all aircraft, but are used mainly for experimentals. You need the
fiberglass inserts for the wing tips to make them work. I also got the
A413A power supply, very happy with how this power supply works, very
bright.
steve a
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lynn
Matteson
Subject: Kitfox-List: lighting system
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
I'm looking at the A600-PG-PR strobe/position lights in the Spruce
catalog, and wondering if these lights fit the requirements by FAA for
our KF's? This seems like the easiest lighting to install, (if not the
cheapest) in that it does away with the tail light requirement. Has
anybody used this lighting, and if so, are you happy with it? My
present plans call for VFR, day-only flights.
Lynn
Message 14
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: LeRoy staley <itis50@yahoo.com>
Not devalue, take the gross weight down to 1320 so I
can fly with the sport pilot privelages. No medical
required. Getting older it is harder and harder to
pass the physical.
--- dave <dave@cfisher.com> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dave"
> <dave@cfisher.com>
>
> why would you want de- value your plane?
>
> Dave
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Sport Pilot
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro"
> <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
> >
> > Once it is certified, it can't be derated.
> >
> > LeRoy staley <itis50@yahoo.com> wrote:-->
> Kitfox-List message posted by:
> LeRoy staley
> >
> > Does anyone know if we are able to derate an
> airplanes
> > gross weight? I have a Kitfox 5 that is presently
> > rated at 1500 gross.
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > http://my.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> > Jose M. Toro, P.E.
> > Kitfox II/582
> > "A slow flight in the Caribbean..."
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Click on the
> this
> by the
> Admin.
> _->
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
Message 15
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
I am canadian and I get my medicals.
I am a licensed pilot and really think medicals are important
if you are a risk to others why would anyone want you in the sky or on the
road?
Sorry but this is a topic some will not like.
Next time you get on a 757 ask the pilot if he got his medical.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "LeRoy staley" <itis50@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Sport Pilot
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: LeRoy staley <itis50@yahoo.com>
>
> Not devalue, take the gross weight down to 1320 so I
> can fly with the sport pilot privelages. No medical
> required. Getting older it is harder and harder to
> pass the physical.
> --- dave <dave@cfisher.com> wrote:
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dave"
> > <dave@cfisher.com>
> >
> > why would you want de- value your plane?
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
> > To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Sport Pilot
> >
> >
> > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro"
> > <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
> > >
> > > Once it is certified, it can't be derated.
> > >
> > > LeRoy staley <itis50@yahoo.com> wrote:-->
> > Kitfox-List message posted by:
> > LeRoy staley
> > >
> > > Does anyone know if we are able to derate an
> > airplanes
> > > gross weight? I have a Kitfox 5 that is presently
> > > rated at 1500 gross.
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
> > > http://my.yahoo.com
> > >
> > >
> > > Jose M. Toro, P.E.
> > > Kitfox II/582
> > > "A slow flight in the Caribbean..."
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Click on the
> > this
> > by the
> > Admin.
> > _->
> > Contributions
> > any other
> > Forums.
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://my.yahoo.com
>
>
Message 16
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DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=DFP4Iso++ugRXMWlFvJ4igI3YIUh4qx3wp0qOQxWR5B7W27EjZDUXB89RwcJOOnl9U+FyLjTp8D9Z6JfTj33Frmfj9DeXsJcaPTpUZm+0x9F/WJZz+uUK1qpVbzqgzRtGYhURm8c8TeCiIqXva49BQjIX8bLdJF5gB+qAzFxNQQ=
;
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
It could devalue the plane, but hopefully there will be another sport pilot interested
in the plane, and willing to pay the right price, whenever it becomes
time to sell.
LeRoy staley <itis50@yahoo.com> wrote:--> Kitfox-List message posted by: LeRoy
staley
Not devalue, take the gross weight down to 1320 so I
can fly with the sport pilot privelages. No medical
required. Getting older it is harder and harder to
pass the physical.
--- dave wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dave"
>
>
> why would you want de- value your plane?
>
> Dave
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jose M. Toro"
> To:
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Sport Pilot
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro"
>
> >
> > Once it is certified, it can't be derated.
> >
> > LeRoy staley wrote:-->
> Kitfox-List message posted by:
> LeRoy staley
> >
> > Does anyone know if we are able to derate an
> airplanes
> > gross weight? I have a Kitfox 5 that is presently
> > rated at 1500 gross.
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > http://my.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> > Jose M. Toro, P.E.
> > Kitfox II/582
> > "A slow flight in the Caribbean..."
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Click on the
> this
> by the
> Admin.
> _->
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
Jose M. Toro, P.E.
Kitfox II/582
"A slow flight in the Caribbean..."
---------------------------------
Message 17
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DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=hp+qncrXFEG8ASklkPKZtDH9+LIKIexuDXAxiVGHdaAarswinRaHReRZLLgQMJyMcctyy2p3tU2KWcPsnW82DyZeC7A62ul2/bwCPfk5IG4IpgM2wI+VFYNoajrFv6u71GGoADddqj/fvC4egsLfKYjlv6/GweBW68ndmfJTZZw=
;
| Subject: | Re: Backup for Mikuni pump |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
Listers:
It looks like replacing the mikuni fuel pump annually with a brand new one solves
the backup pump issue. I would add to this to also replace the pulse line.
To be honest, it makes sense. Seems extremely unlikely to fail during its first
year, and is cheap enough to be economically feasible.
You convinced me I made an overkill. This is why I'm an addict to this list...
Jose
Fox5flyer <morid@northland.lib.mi.us> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer"
> Good points Darrel. I've seen in several places that don't recommend
> rebuilding the pumps. I often wondered why since they are pretty darn
simple. Also,
> the cost of putting in a new one doesn't break the bank too bad. Any
ideas
> why the recommendation is out there "NOT" to rebuild. Maybe they are just
> trying to sell more pumps?
> Don Smythe
> N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
I'd say the last sentence is probably the correct one. However, the pumps
are relatively cheap and simple to replace. Probably even cheaper at a
snowmobile dealer.
D
Jose M. Toro, P.E.
Kitfox II/582
"A slow flight in the Caribbean..."
---------------------------------
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Backup for Mikuni pump |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
addict to list
YUP we all guilty of that :)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Backup for Mikuni pump
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
>
> Listers:
>
> It looks like replacing the mikuni fuel pump annually with a brand new one
solves the backup pump issue. I would add to this to also replace the pulse
line.
>
> To be honest, it makes sense. Seems extremely unlikely to fail during its
first year, and is cheap enough to be economically feasible.
>
> You convinced me I made an overkill. This is why I'm an addict to this
list...
>
> Jose
>
> Fox5flyer <morid@northland.lib.mi.us> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer"
>
> > Good points Darrel. I've seen in several places that don't recommend
> > rebuilding the pumps. I often wondered why since they are pretty darn
> simple. Also,
> > the cost of putting in a new one doesn't break the bank too bad. Any
> ideas
> > why the recommendation is out there "NOT" to rebuild. Maybe they are
just
> > trying to sell more pumps?
> > Don Smythe
> > N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
>
> I'd say the last sentence is probably the correct one. However, the pumps
> are relatively cheap and simple to replace. Probably even cheaper at a
> snowmobile dealer.
> D
>
>
> Jose M. Toro, P.E.
> Kitfox II/582
> "A slow flight in the Caribbean..."
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: lighting system |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
What are the "fiberglass inserts" for the wing tips? Do you mean the
fiberglass wingtip bubbles, part numbers 67110 and 67111 from Skystar
for the Speedster? I have them. Or are you referring to a part that is
separate from the lighting kit and available from Aircraft Spruce?
Lynn
On Thursday, November 18, 2004, at 11:08 AM, customtrans@qwest.net
wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
>
> These are the lights I put on my kitfox4. They are approved for
> basically
> all aircraft, but are used mainly for experimentals. You need the
> fiberglass inserts for the wing tips to make them work. I also got the
> A413A power supply, very happy with how this power supply works, very
> bright.
>
> steve a
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lynn
> Matteson
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: lighting system
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> I'm looking at the A600-PG-PR strobe/position lights in the Spruce
> catalog, and wondering if these lights fit the requirements by FAA for
> our KF's? This seems like the easiest lighting to install, (if not the
> cheapest) in that it does away with the tail light requirement. Has
> anybody used this lighting, and if so, are you happy with it? My
> present plans call for VFR, day-only flights.
>
> Lynn
>
>
Message 20
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
The inserts are for installing the lights to the wing tips. If you didn't
use them than the surface for the lights are narrower and mounting the
lights flush is impossible. The cost isn't much, put putting them in is a
bother. I think skystar has them on their web site.
steve a
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lynn
Matteson
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: lighting system
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
What are the "fiberglass inserts" for the wing tips? Do you mean the
fiberglass wingtip bubbles, part numbers 67110 and 67111 from Skystar
for the Speedster? I have them. Or are you referring to a part that is
separate from the lighting kit and available from Aircraft Spruce?
Lynn
On Thursday, November 18, 2004, at 11:08 AM, customtrans@qwest.net
wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
>
> These are the lights I put on my kitfox4. They are approved for
> basically
> all aircraft, but are used mainly for experimentals. You need the
> fiberglass inserts for the wing tips to make them work. I also got the
> A413A power supply, very happy with how this power supply works, very
> bright.
>
> steve a
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lynn
> Matteson
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: lighting system
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> I'm looking at the A600-PG-PR strobe/position lights in the Spruce
> catalog, and wondering if these lights fit the requirements by FAA for
> our KF's? This seems like the easiest lighting to install, (if not the
> cheapest) in that it does away with the tail light requirement. Has
> anybody used this lighting, and if so, are you happy with it? My
> present plans call for VFR, day-only flights.
>
> Lynn
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Backup for Mikuni pump |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
<< Listers:
It looks like replacing the mikuni fuel pump annually with a brand new one
solves the backup pump issue. I would add to this to also replace the pulse
line.
To be honest, it makes sense. Seems extremely unlikely to fail during its
first year, and is cheap enough to be economically feasible.
You convinced me I made an overkill. This is why I'm an addict to this
list...
Jose
>>
Jose,
It is a privilege to discuss problems with someone like yourself. You
don't mind saying, "you might have made a mistake". There are others that would
rather die than admit something like that. I like criticism if it's kept
nonpersonal. That's what makes us learn.
BTW, I can recall one pump failure (crash landing) that was caused by a
ruptured pulse line. As I recall, the pulse line had not been changed in a
long/long time. Pilot error the way I see it.
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 22
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| Subject: | Further thoughts re backup pumps |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
There is a few comments re needing a one way valve to stop fuel from being
fed back through the Mikuni pump from the electric backup pump in a parallel
system. However the Mikuni pump has inlet and outlet valves. In the event of
a ruptured diaphram in the Mikuni the outlet valve in it will not let fuel
flow backwards into it. To stop fuel from the tanks being sucked through the
ruptured diaphram into the crankcase one merely turns of the valve / tap [
in my system ] on this side and runs on the other side ie:- the electric
backup side. Hence no oneway valve is required to be added because it's
already there in the pump.
Re not needing a second line out of the header tank. That is OK except by
having two lines and two filters one filter can block and we just run on the
other. Also if we are getting stuff blocking filters we have twice as much
to block before we are in trouble. Usually we would just run on the one in
the Mikuni pump line and the electric pump line would be closed at the valve
/ tap under the intrument panel or where ever. Therefore if the Mikuni pump
line filter blocked the other filter on the electric pump line should be OK
at this time, so we just turn that line on and gain at least enough time to
get down or whatever.
I know all this adds more chances for leaks, costs more and does weigh a
bit more, but in each case how big a problem is it ? I would suggest in all
cases it is minimal especially when compared to the likely consequences of
fuel system failure.
Thanks to all who have contributed to the conversation. We can evolve a
good system by discussion and any points points brought up by one person and
answered is in fact undoubtably answering it also for others not commenting
at this point in time.
Rex.
rexjan@bigpond.com
Message 23
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| Subject: | ruptured impulse line |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
Here you go guys a failure of an impulse line i changed the other day.
posted on this lazair.com site as it the only way i know how to post a pic
and share it.
http://lazair.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=268
Plus if you like LAzair ultralights it full of info adn some MOVIES up to
200 mgs
http://lazair.com/forum/index.php?showforum=12
all free too
gotta like that lol
maybe i should start a kitfox thread there for you guys LOL ( i been
sneaking some stuff in already adn no complaints)
Shorty
----- Original Message -----
From: <AlbertaIV@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Backup for Mikuni pump
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
> << Listers:
>
> It looks like replacing the mikuni fuel pump annually with a brand new
one
> solves the backup pump issue. I would add to this to also replace the
pulse
> line.
>
> To be honest, it makes sense. Seems extremely unlikely to fail during
its
> first year, and is cheap enough to be economically feasible.
>
> You convinced me I made an overkill. This is why I'm an addict to this
> list...
>
> Jose
> >>
>
> Jose,
> It is a privilege to discuss problems with someone like yourself. You
> don't mind saying, "you might have made a mistake". There are others that
would
> rather die than admit something like that. I like criticism if it's kept
> nonpersonal. That's what makes us learn.
> BTW, I can recall one pump failure (crash landing) that was caused by
a
> ruptured pulse line. As I recall, the pulse line had not been changed in
a
> long/long time. Pilot error the way I see it.
>
> Don Smythe
> N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
>
>
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Re: lighting system |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Thanks for the input, Steve....I think we're talkin' about the same
thing...a fiberglass fairing that is cut and fitted into/onto the
wingtip, and allows for the flush mounting of the light units. SS calls
them a wingtip bubble....at least that's what they were called back in
'94 when my kit was built. I'll be putting them on soon, and then
coughing up the $789 for the lights...cough, cough...
Lynn
On Thursday, November 18, 2004, at 03:46 PM, customtrans@qwest.net
wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
>
> The inserts are for installing the lights to the wing tips. If you
> didn't
> use them than the surface for the lights are narrower and mounting the
> lights flush is impossible. The cost isn't much, put putting them in
> is a
> bother. I think skystar has them on their web site.
> steve a
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lynn
> Matteson
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: lighting system
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> What are the "fiberglass inserts" for the wing tips? Do you mean the
> fiberglass wingtip bubbles, part numbers 67110 and 67111 from Skystar
> for the Speedster? I have them. Or are you referring to a part that is
> separate from the lighting kit and available from Aircraft Spruce?
>
> Lynn
> On Thursday, November 18, 2004, at 11:08 AM, customtrans@qwest.net
> wrote:
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
>>
>> These are the lights I put on my kitfox4. They are approved for
>> basically
>> all aircraft, but are used mainly for experimentals. You need the
>> fiberglass inserts for the wing tips to make them work. I also got
>> the
>> A413A power supply, very happy with how this power supply works, very
>> bright.
>>
>> steve a
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lynn
>> Matteson
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Kitfox-List: lighting system
>>
>>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>>
>> I'm looking at the A600-PG-PR strobe/position lights in the Spruce
>> catalog, and wondering if these lights fit the requirements by FAA for
>> our KF's? This seems like the easiest lighting to install, (if not the
>> cheapest) in that it does away with the tail light requirement. Has
>> anybody used this lighting, and if so, are you happy with it? My
>> present plans call for VFR, day-only flights.
>>
>> Lynn
>>
>>
>
>
Message 25
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
Yup,
that's what they are. I didn't like putting them in, you have to cut out the
tip and then install them from the inside of the tips. I used 5 min epoxy
to put them in with a little micro balloons, then I used rage gold for a
final filler. Look real good. Make sure you use the A413a power supply,
sure it's expensive, but sure works great. I remember the first time I took
off at night, wow, what a light up on the runway from the strobes. The old
Kuntzlemans system was a far cry from this system, after using the whelen
the kuntzlemans is a joke. But, after all this kuntzlemans is for
altralights anyway.
steve a
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lynn
Matteson
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: lighting system
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Thanks for the input, Steve....I think we're talkin' about the same
thing...a fiberglass fairing that is cut and fitted into/onto the
wingtip, and allows for the flush mounting of the light units. SS calls
them a wingtip bubble....at least that's what they were called back in
'94 when my kit was built. I'll be putting them on soon, and then
coughing up the $789 for the lights...cough, cough...
Lynn
On Thursday, November 18, 2004, at 03:46 PM, customtrans@qwest.net
wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
>
> The inserts are for installing the lights to the wing tips. If you
> didn't
> use them than the surface for the lights are narrower and mounting the
> lights flush is impossible. The cost isn't much, put putting them in
> is a
> bother. I think skystar has them on their web site.
> steve a
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lynn
> Matteson
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: lighting system
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> What are the "fiberglass inserts" for the wing tips? Do you mean the
> fiberglass wingtip bubbles, part numbers 67110 and 67111 from Skystar
> for the Speedster? I have them. Or are you referring to a part that is
> separate from the lighting kit and available from Aircraft Spruce?
>
> Lynn
> On Thursday, November 18, 2004, at 11:08 AM, customtrans@qwest.net
> wrote:
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
>>
>> These are the lights I put on my kitfox4. They are approved for
>> basically
>> all aircraft, but are used mainly for experimentals. You need the
>> fiberglass inserts for the wing tips to make them work. I also got
>> the
>> A413A power supply, very happy with how this power supply works, very
>> bright.
>>
>> steve a
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lynn
>> Matteson
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Kitfox-List: lighting system
>>
>>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>>
>> I'm looking at the A600-PG-PR strobe/position lights in the Spruce
>> catalog, and wondering if these lights fit the requirements by FAA for
>> our KF's? This seems like the easiest lighting to install, (if not the
>> cheapest) in that it does away with the tail light requirement. Has
>> anybody used this lighting, and if so, are you happy with it? My
>> present plans call for VFR, day-only flights.
>>
>> Lynn
>>
>>
>
>
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | 912S exhaust temperature and N10NH Flys! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
A friend, CFI and very experienced pilot, flew my plane for its first
flight. IT FLYS!
But under full power (912S) the EGT went to 1600 F. I have in my notes that
the max EGT is 1500 for the 912S. ...but I am not sure where I got that.
The 1500 is what I set in as a limit in the Grand Rapids EIS.
I installed the probes according to the EIS instructions. I believe it is
8" from the head.
I would appreciate any comments and help.
Randy - Did I mention it flys!?
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | 912S exhaust temperature and N10NH Flys! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
Randy, Congratulations on getting your plane flying! Hooray! I can't help
too much on the EGTs, but usually that is related to a lean mixture. If you
feel the EGT's are accurate, you might put in richer jets. Check the plugs
to see what color they are, tan/brown is ideal, black is rich, white/grey is
too lean.
Also did I say congratulations?
Don Pearsall
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
Daughenbaugh
Subject: Kitfox-List: 912S exhaust temperature and N10NH Flys!
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh"
<rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
A friend, CFI and very experienced pilot, flew my plane for its first
flight. IT FLYS!
But under full power (912S) the EGT went to 1600 F. I have in my notes that
the max EGT is 1500 for the 912S. ...but I am not sure where I got that.
The 1500 is what I set in as a limit in the Grand Rapids EIS.
I installed the probes according to the EIS instructions. I believe it is
8" from the head.
I would appreciate any comments and help.
Randy - Did I mention it flys!?
Message 28
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| Subject: | 912S exhaust temperature and N10NH Flys! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Randy,
Congrats !!! It is truly a great feeling.....
Most of the probes are approx 2.75" from the flange. I believe that is
where Rotax recommends and takes the temp from. The max published EGT is
1620 at takeoff max cont 1560 and Normal of 1470.
Blue Skies
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Randy
Daughenbaugh
Subject: Kitfox-List: 912S exhaust temperature and N10NH Flys!
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh"
<rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
A friend, CFI and very experienced pilot, flew my plane for its first
flight. IT FLYS!
But under full power (912S) the EGT went to 1600 F. I have in my notes that
the max EGT is 1500 for the 912S. ...but I am not sure where I got that.
The 1500 is what I set in as a limit in the Grand Rapids EIS.
I installed the probes according to the EIS instructions. I believe it is
8" from the head.
I would appreciate any comments and help.
Randy - Did I mention it flys!?
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Backup for Mikuni pump |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
Don:
I'm not attempting to copy these two guys, but I read in a book titled "The Wright
Stuff" that this was the way Orville and Wilbur did their critical thinking.
They would fiercely defend their point, but at the same time were honestly
looking for evidence proving they were wrong. Well, the point is that their
method was effective, and our Kitfoxes are the evidence.
Going back to the backup pump theme, it would not work with the Mikuni because
of the pulse line, but could be a good alternative for other type of pumps. However,
that my friend is another story beyond the scope of the 582ers.
Jose
AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
<< Listers:
It looks like replacing the mikuni fuel pump annually with a brand new one
solves the backup pump issue. I would add to this to also replace the pulse
line.
To be honest, it makes sense. Seems extremely unlikely to fail during its
first year, and is cheap enough to be economically feasible.
You convinced me I made an overkill. This is why I'm an addict to this
list...
Jose
>>
Jose,
It is a privilege to discuss problems with someone like yourself. You
don't mind saying, "you might have made a mistake". There are others that would
rather die than admit something like that. I like criticism if it's kept
nonpersonal. That's what makes us learn.
BTW, I can recall one pump failure (crash landing) that was caused by a
ruptured pulse line. As I recall, the pulse line had not been changed in a
long/long time. Pilot error the way I see it.
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Jose M. Toro, P.E.
Kitfox II/582
"A slow flight in the Caribbean..."
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