Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:53 AM - Re: ruptured impulse line (shortnaked)
2. 05:21 AM - Re: Ruptured diaphram (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
3. 05:21 AM - Re: Rotax 912 Roughness and mag drop (John Banes)
4. 05:28 AM - Re: EGT probe depth (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
5. 05:45 AM - Re: I am pulling the 532...(Kurt). (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
6. 06:00 AM - fuel switch (Bob Unternaehrer)
7. 06:06 AM - List digest form (Bob Unternaehrer)
8. 06:08 AM - Re: I am pulling the 532...(Kurt). (Howard Firm)
9. 06:34 AM - Re: 912 EGT (Joe)
10. 06:47 AM - Re: Check valve (Jerry Liles)
11. 07:31 AM - Re: Check valve (Peter Graichen)
12. 08:24 AM - Tail Wheel Attachment (Jimmie Blackwell)
13. 08:52 AM - Re: Initial BING 54 Idle adjustment setting & thingamajiggys (David Savener)
14. 09:13 AM - Re: Initial BING 54 Idle adjustment setting & thingamajiggys (Dcecil3@aol.com)
15. 09:25 AM - Re: ruptured impulse line (Jose M. Toro)
16. 09:43 AM - Re: Tail Wheel Attachment (Comp User)
17. 09:53 AM - Re: Tail Wheel Attachment (Jimmie Blackwell)
18. 10:26 AM - Re: Tail Wheel Attachment (Brian Peck)
19. 10:30 AM - Re: Tail Wheel Attachment (customtrans@qwest.net)
20. 10:46 AM - Re: Tail Wheel Attachment (shortnaked)
21. 12:09 PM - [PLEASE READ] More What Listers Are Saying... (Matt Dralle)
22. 12:43 PM - Re: NSI EA-81 fuel injection (Michael Gibbs)
23. 03:21 PM - Re: I am pulling the 532...(Kurt). (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
24. 03:34 PM - Re: Initial BING 54 Idle adjustment setting & thingamajiggys (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
25. 04:07 PM - Re: Check valve (Fox5flyer)
26. 04:34 PM - Re: Check valve (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
27. 10:59 PM - Re: Check valve (kurt schrader)
28. 11:12 PM - Re flooding due to ruptured diaphram (Rex & Jan Shaw)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: ruptured impulse line |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
Jose,
you hit the nail on the head " automotive FUEL INJECTION line" there is a
difference between that and automotive fuel line.
Shorty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: ruptured impulse line
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
>
> Clem:
>
> For the complete installation including the pulse line, I have used
automotive fuel injection for many years. Have not failed...so far.
>
> Jose
>
> shortnaked <shortnaked@golden.net> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked"
>
> someone had it on this plane with a 582
>
> this is what happened.
>
>
> fuel line should not be automotive either
>
> use urethane NOT TYGON
>
>
> TYGON will harden ina a year
>
>
> hope this helps you
>
> Shorty
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Clem Nichols"
> To:
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: ruptured impulse line
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols"
> >
> > Am I mistaken, or is it OK to use regular automotive fuel line as an
> impulse
> > line?
> >
> > Clem Nichols
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "shortnaked"
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: ruptured impulse line
> >
> >
> > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked"
> > >
> > > anytime
> > >
> > > see i live in a real world and like to try to help out others with
> facts
> > >
> > > pictures prove it
> > >
> > > :)
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Harris, Robert"
> > > To:
> > > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: ruptured impulse line
> > >
> > >
> > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert"
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Thanks for the pics Shorty
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > >> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
shortnaked
> > >> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > >> Subject: Kitfox-List: ruptured impulse line
> > >>
> > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked"
> > >>
> > >> Here you go guys a failure of an impulse line i changed the other
day.
> > >>
> > >> posted on this lazair.com site as it the only way i know how to post
a
> > > pic
> > >> and share it.
> > >> http://lazair.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=268
> > >> Plus if you like LAzair ultralights it full of info adn some MOVIES
up
> > >> to
> > >> 200 mgs
> > >> http://lazair.com/forum/index.php?showforum=12
> > >>
> > >> all free too
> > >>
> > >> gotta like that lol
> > >>
> > >> maybe i should start a kitfox thread there for you guys LOL ( i been
> > >> sneaking some stuff in already adn no complaints)
> > >>
> > >> Shorty
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From:
> > >> To:
> > >> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Backup for Mikuni pump
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
> > >> >
> > >> > << Listers:
> > >> >
> > >> > It looks like replacing the mikuni fuel pump annually with a brand
> new
> > >> one
> > >> > solves the backup pump issue. I would add to this to also replace
> the
> > >> pulse
> > >> > line.
> > >> >
> > >> > To be honest, it makes sense. Seems extremely unlikely to fail
> during
> > >> its
> > >> > first year, and is cheap enough to be economically feasible.
> > >> >
> > >> > You convinced me I made an overkill. This is why I'm an addict to
> > >> > this
> > >> > list...
> > >> >
> > >> > Jose
> > >> > >>
> > >> >
> > >> > Jose,
> > >> > It is a privilege to discuss problems with someone like yourself.
> > > You
> > >> > don't mind saying, "you might have made a mistake". There are
others
> > > that
> > >> would
> > >> > rather die than admit something like that. I like criticism if it's
> > > kept
> > >> > nonpersonal. That's what makes us learn.
> > >> > BTW, I can recall one pump failure (crash landing) that was
> caused
> > > by
> > >> a
> > >> > ruptured pulse line. As I recall, the pulse line had not been
> changed
> > > in
> > >> a
> > >> > long/long time. Pilot error the way I see it.
> > >> >
> > >> > Don Smythe
> > >> > N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> Jose M. Toro, P.E.
> Kitfox II/582
> "A slow flight in the Caribbean..."
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Ruptured diaphram |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 11/19/04 6:15:27 PM Pacific Standard Time, jcorner@shaw.ca
writes:
<< Don
Why don't you just use two facet pumps, parallel, with redundant check
valves, and eliminate your troublesome Mukini.
Use dual batteries and an essential bus wiring system. When was your >>
Jim,
Where did you get the idea I have a troublesome Mik? I have a Mik with
no backup and don't plan on putting in a backup. As I have said, the Mik is
one of the most reliable parts on the engine.
You said when did I last have a total electric failure. It's right up
there with the last Mik failure. NEVER.
This entire discussion has been about possible improvements not Mik
failures. And, I didn't even start it. At least, I don't think so.
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 3
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| Subject: | Rotax 912 Roughness and mag drop |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Banes" <JohnBanes@Adelphia.net>
Hi Lyle,
During initial test running of my 912S I observed a mag drop of around 400
RPM on both circuits. The engine ran fine at higher RPM but was rough at
low RPM, especially around idle. I started to pull the plugs to see if one
or two were not firing and quickly found that I had switched two spark plug
wires. With the wires on the right plugs I now get a smooth idle @ 1600 RPM
and a mag drop of ~100 RPM on both circuits @ 4000 RPM.
John Banes
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lyle Persels
Subject: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912 Roughness and mag drop
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lyle Persels <lpers@mchsi.com>
After 400 hours on my Model IV, I remain pleased with the 912UL's
smoothness, economy and power when operating at cruise rpm. However,
from the beginning I've struggled with roughness-often extreme- below,
say, 2500 rpm. I have all the manuals, have balanced (both mechanical
and with vacuum guage) and tinkered and adjusted linkages with extreme
care, have cleaned carbs carefully, replaced many carb parts (flanges,
diaphragms, jets, needles, o-rings), and looked for possible intake leaks.
In addition to roughness, I've always had a drop on the individual
ignition circuit checks of slightly greater than 300 rpm on each
circuit. Replacing the plugs helps a little for a short time. I've done
this much too frequently, at 20-25 hour intervals. I've replaced a
faulty coil and ignition module (now $782) but I doubt that these
related to the mag drop problems.
I've followed the list on these topics for years, so I know my
experiences aren't unique. Yet I can't believe most 912 operators
experience these problems with the severity and frequency that have
plagued my love-hate relationship with the engine. I just can't believe
these conditions "have to be."
Can anyone offer suggestions, information, or even condolences?
Lyle Persels
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: EGT probe depth |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 11/19/04 8:44:38 PM Pacific Standard Time,
smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com writes:
<< Don, it might be worth it to adjust one side for the
middle and compare it to the other side in flight and
see what the difference really is. Maybe you are
running hot and lean? Or maybe I am not running as
hot as I think???
Kurt S. >>
Kurt,
The engine in question is the Hirth on one of the Helicopters. On my
plane, they are centered. However, I plan to readjust one of mine to determine
what the temp difference will be.
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: I am pulling the 532...(Kurt). |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 11/19/04 9:53:13 PM Pacific Standard Time,
smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com writes:
<<
Mine has 2 electric Facet pumps only. Neither is
under the seat. The origional NSI design called for
only one electric pump. I installed the fuel system >>
Kurt,
Back when Michel Harter was getting his NSI going, he had troubles with
his one Facet pump but I can't remember exactly what it was. Anyway, he
relocated the pump from fwd to under the seat right at the header output. That
solved his problems. It might have been vapor lock???
I studied auto fuel for quite a while and found that it will out gas much
more than 100LL. I think vapor locking is the main reason automotive
companies went from the engine mounted fuel pump to an electric pump in the fuel
tank. Sucking fuel adds to the problem of out gassing where pushing fuel solves
most of the problem. Also found out that anytime auto fuel passed through a
larger body like a filter of Mik pump, it will out gas bad. Look at a clear
filter on any car. It looks half empty.
Try this sometime...Put a clear hose in your wing tank with a filter in
the line. Start a syphon to the floor and you will see massive air bubbles all
in the clear line. Move the same setup to a tank with 100LL and you will see
little to no bubbles.
This technique is used in the Rotax manual for determining if you have
any air leaks in the system. Well, I spent about 4 days looking for massive air
leaks only to determine the above.
BTW, I seem to remember that Mike's NSI would cruise with no pump at all
turned on. Right?
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 6
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilohcom@c-magic.com>
Kurt, Try the Nason 5m-2c-4f which is 4psi. They are available in several presser
ranges. These are used on the Z601 corvair conversion, along with a 15psi
switch to shut the system down in case of a crash. You need to remember anytime
you set a pressure switch to turn on a pump, that in case of a accident and
engine is stopped, it will automatically turn on the aux pump and maybe spray
fuel where you don't want it. Bob U
Message 7
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| Subject: | List digest form |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilohcom@c-magic.com>
Dale,
I currently get the list in digest form. It would be helpful if you would be able
to click on the message you wanted to read and jump directly to it. Of course
it would be more helpfull if posters would take the time to change the message
subject when applicable, rather than continue posting to a different thread,
but that's an age old problem on many list thats typical lazy human nature.
Bob U.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: I am pulling the 532...(Kurt). |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Howard Firm" <pianome2@mchsi.com>
Don, You are correct, Harters' plane had a vapor lock problem...I ended up
doing what he did on my -4 to solve that problem. Also, we both used the
fuel pump on take off.....it ran at cruise power without the pump.
Howard Firm
508 12th St. South
Virginia MN 55792
----- Original Message -----
From: <AlbertaIV@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: I am pulling the 532...(Kurt).
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 11/19/04 9:53:13 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com writes:
>
> <<
> Mine has 2 electric Facet pumps only. Neither is
> under the seat. The origional NSI design called for
> only one electric pump. I installed the fuel system >>
>
> Kurt,
> Back when Michel Harter was getting his NSI going, he had troubles
with
> his one Facet pump but I can't remember exactly what it was. Anyway, he
> relocated the pump from fwd to under the seat right at the header output.
That
> solved his problems. It might have been vapor lock???
> I studied auto fuel for quite a while and found that it will out gas
much
> more than 100LL. I think vapor locking is the main reason automotive
> companies went from the engine mounted fuel pump to an electric pump in
the fuel
> tank. Sucking fuel adds to the problem of out gassing where pushing fuel
solves
> most of the problem. Also found out that anytime auto fuel passed through
a
> larger body like a filter of Mik pump, it will out gas bad. Look at a
clear
> filter on any car. It looks half empty.
> Try this sometime...Put a clear hose in your wing tank with a filter
in
> the line. Start a syphon to the floor and you will see massive air
bubbles all
> in the clear line. Move the same setup to a tank with 100LL and you will
see
> little to no bubbles.
> This technique is used in the Rotax manual for determining if you have
> any air leaks in the system. Well, I spent about 4 days looking for
massive air
> leaks only to determine the above.
> BTW, I seem to remember that Mike's NSI would cruise with no pump at
all
> turned on. Right?
>
>
> Don Smythe
> N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 9
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Joe" <joe@arin.k12.pa.us>
Gentlemen,
I have a graph / chart of my EGTs at various power / rpms. I monitor all
four cylinders. they vary a couple hundred degrees at different power
settings. at 70 degs. I see the low 1400's at about 4600 rpms. colder
temps. say 50 deg. the EGTs go up.
would be glad to send the JPG file to someone to post. it is 177k.
please advise.
regards,
Joe
Message 10
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles <wliles@bayou.com>
Now, of course, depending on two electric pumps adds electric failure to
the list of failure modes. Attempting to make the fuel system
absolutely failure proof, especially if it depends on pilot
intervention, is not unlikely to make it even less dependable. All the
proposed pumps, valves, switches, tubing, check valves, etc. is
beginning to make me nervous. I think I'll keep Tootie Mae as simple as
I can with a well maintained mechanical pump, gravity feed, and one
master fuel valve.
Jerry Liles
kurt schrader wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
>
>
>>I don't think there is any need to add a check valve
>>to the Facet as it has one internally. That's one
>>less plumbing item needed.....
>>
>>
>
>Actually it is the failure of the internal check valve
>that may cause the Facet pump to fail. If this
>happens, a second parallel pump would only run the
>fuel in a circle thru the first pump, if you don't
>have a backup check valve. All it takes is a little
>debris to clog this valve and the pump will just move
>fuel back and forth instead if in one direction.
>
>The good thing about the Facet - they won't pump into
>your crankcase if they fail. I liked the suggestion
>of 2 electric pumps and no diaphram pump with access
>to the crankcase in the event of failure. I like all
>my failures to be non-critical.
>
>But then are we chasing a problem or a ghost? Because
>we each have personalized planes, engines and fuel
>systems, each builder will have to decide in the end
>what risks to accept. The discussion should make all
>our decisions a bit better informed, so I am glad to
>see all the ideas flying about. I didn't marry my
>fuel system, so it is open to change for the better
>too.
>
>Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Peter Graichen" <n10pg@neo.rr.com>
Hello Rex:
There is a photo of my fuel pump plumbing scheme on my web site. Pumps in
parallel with no check valves, all located underneath the passenger seat.
Has worked flawlessly for
900 hrs (9 years)
Peter Graichen
http://home.neo.rr.com/n10pg/kitfox.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rex & Jan Shaw
Subject: Kitfox-List: Check valve
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
I don't think there is any need to add a check valve to the Facet as it has
one internally. That's one less plumbing item needed.
Good point Darrell,
I didn't realise that the Facet pump had a non
return check valve. However when one thinks about it I suppose it has to. I
think this does indeed simplify matters. In fact I think it means we would
not need a tap/valve say under the instrument panel for that line or the
electric solenoid I suggested. I really need to think that through a bit
though.
Rex.
rexjan@bigpond.com
Message 12
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| Subject: | Tail Wheel Attachment |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" <jablackwell@ev1.net>
In the last few weeks I have been having a lot of fun learning to fly my Model
IV Speedster. There are a couple of issues that perhaps this list can help me
resolve. First, when landing or taking off there is a period of time at about
35-40 mph that my plane gets notably more difficult to control. Above or below
this speed it is rather easy to control on the ground. Second, and this may
be related to the first issue, my tail wheel is slanted slightly backward where
the tail wheel attaches to the tail spring. Seems I remember reading somewhere
that the tail wheel should be slanted slightly forward. Hopefully, some
of you have some ideas and experience on how to correct these issues if they
are indeed a problem.
I forgot to mention, my tail wheel spring is the solid Grove spring.
Thanks in advance.
Jimmie
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Initial BING 54 Idle adjustment setting & thingamajiggys |
Seal-Send-Time: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 10:50:04 -0600
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David Savener" <david_savener@msn.com>
I received two Bing 54 Carbs on a 582 I bought. Someone had taken them apart,
then reassembled them with no intention of running them till they were rebuilt.
I have rebuilt them and have everything set for initial running EXCEPT
that I can't find anything that tells me how far out I should set the Large Idle
screw initially. That's the Big screw that sets the idle speed.
Anybody??
One more question. I read that I may need new plastic inserts below the slide
spring and above the mid-range needle because of the addition of the O ring on
top of the mid-range needle. How do I tell whether I have the new or old style
plastic thingamajiggys?
I hate to order those Rotax parts unless I really need em! I'm fresh out of gold
bars and they probably cost approximately one bar per thingamajiggy. DONCHANO!!
----- Original Message -----
From: kerrjohna@comcast.net<mailto:kerrjohna@comcast.net>
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 12:00 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 912S exhaust temperature and N10NH Flys!
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net<mailto:kerrjohna@comcast.net>
obtaining a Bing manual can be very helpful. there are 3 overlapping ranges with
the bing carb: Idle, Idle/needle, needle, needle/main jet, and main jet(full
throttle). This makes interpretting the carb operation a bit challenging.
When I feel mine are exactly in tune with weather, altitude, etc there is little
variation of EGT when moving from full throttle down to an economy cruise.
Most times, depending on conditions the EGT will rise or fall slightly as the
throttle is retarded. The carburators that Bing makes are at the same time
sensitive and forgiving.
My first guess is that the idle mixture is set too rich. I am not sure if I remember
correctly but it seems that the idle screw is factory-set at about 2 1/2
turns. As I worked with mine to obtain peak rpms at idle the setting ended
up in the neighborhood of 1/2 turn from full off. My altitude is 4450' and idle
(nor main jet) is not affected by the "compression compensation" built into
the carb.
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh"
>
> Thanks Cliff, John, and Don,
> I do need to educate myself more on what jet is in the carb, but John's
> info makes it look like it is doing what it is supposed to do. - I just need
> to change the setting in the EIS. !!
>
> And as Don pointed out, I need to get a read from the spark plugs. All may
> be OK.
>
> I need to check the distance from the piston again. I have the plane out at
> an airport on the plains right now. I thought that would be a better place
> for the first flights than here at my strip. My strip is surrounded by
> steep cliffs and mountains with limited emergency landing options.
>
> Randy
>
> .
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com>
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clifford
> Begnaud
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912S exhaust temperature and N10NH Flys!
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud"
>
>
> Randy,
> Congrats on the first flight!
> What is main jet # that is installed? On our 912 the probe was much closer
> than 8".
> Cliff
> Erie, co
>
> >
> > A friend, CFI and very experienced pilot, flew my plane for its first
> > flight. IT FLYS!
> >
> > But under full power (912S) the EGT went to 1600 F. I have in my notes
> > that
> > the max EGT is 1500 for the 912S. ...but I am not sure where I got that.
> > The 1500 is what I set in as a limit in the Grand Rapids EIS.
> >
> > I installed the probes according to the EIS instructions. I believe it is
> > 8" from the head.
> >
> > I would appreciate any comments and help.
> >
> > Randy - Did I mention it flys!?
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
obtaining a Bing manual can be very helpful. there are 3 overlapping ranges with
the bing carb: Idle, Idle/needle, needle, needle/main jet, and main jet(full
throttle). This makes interpretting the carb operation a bit challenging. When
I feel mine are exactly in tune with weather, altitude, etc there is little
variation of EGT when moving from full throttle down to an economy cruise. Most
times, depending on conditions the EGT will rise or fall slightly as the throttle
is retarded. The carburators that Bing makes are at the same time sensitive
and forgiving.
My first guess is that the idle mixture is set too rich. I am not sure if I remember
correctly but it seems that the idle screw is factory-set at about 2 1/2
turns. As I worked with mine to obtain peak rpms at idle the setting ended
up in the neighborhood of 1/2 turn from full off. My altitude is 4450' and idle
(nor main jet) isnot affected by the "compression compensation" built into the
carb.
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <RJDAUGH@RAPIDNET.COM<mailto:RJDAUGH@RAPIDNET.COM>>
Thanks Cliff, John, and Don,
I do need to educate myself more on what jet is in the carb, but John's
info makes it look like it is doing what it is supposed to do. - I just need
to change the setting in the EIS. !!
And as Don pointed out, I need to get a read from the spark plugs. All may
be OK.
I need to check the distance from the piston again. I have the plane out at
an airport on the plains right now. I thought that would be a better place
for the first flights than here at my strip. My strip is surrounded by
steep cliffs and mountains with limited emergency landing options.
Randy
.
&
gt;
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com>
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clifford
Begnaud
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912S exhaust temperature and N10NH Flys!
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud"
<SHOELESS@BAREFOOTPILOT.COM<mailto:SHOELESS@BAREFOOTPILOT.COM>>
Randy,
Congrats on the first flight!
What is main jet # that is installed? On our 912 the probe was much closer
than 8".
Cliff
Erie, co
A friend, CFI and very experienced pilot, flew my plane for its first
flight. IT FLYS!
But under full power (912S) the EGT went to 1600 F. I have in my notes
that
the max EGT is 1500 for the 912S. ...but I am not sure where I got that.
The 1500 is what
I set in as a limit in the Grand Rapids EIS.
I installed the probes according to the EIS instructions. I believe it is
8" from the head.
I would appreciate any comments and help.
Randy - Did I mention it flys!?
!
.matronics.com/archives
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Initial BING 54 Idle adjustment setting & thingamajiggys |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dcecil3@aol.com
There is some info at http://www.bingcarburetor.com/aircraft/aircraft.html .I
don't know if it's what you want? but might help you out ,if not Call them
.The guy there knows this stuff inside and out and will save you money spent buy
guessing.I needed 2 diaphrames for a 912 and I found out Rotax has 2
different models
Good Luck
D.Cecil
Message 15
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|
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=kWQFooT2XIExNPMAiZ1K5Z0vc21YlQ8wLoIsoLxjqHZxSatuV/VlqUex5Lhp0W9P2i3wIW18O6jpc6XCaey54PEDMRWgRhn4sW69Eph70fpEKqrc3TJMH3Dsah3JUNj8bhWK06quZ+8sFDmvEmgD2OsFoON/o0vVEkQ/df/LZXA=
;
| Subject: | Re: ruptured impulse line |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
I won't use the regular automotive fuel line. My Fox is worth the "additional
investment".
Jose
shortnaked <shortnaked@golden.net> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked"
Jose,
you hit the nail on the head " automotive FUEL INJECTION line" there is a
difference between that and automotive fuel line.
Shorty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jose M. Toro"
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: ruptured impulse line
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro"
>
> Clem:
>
> For the complete installation including the pulse line, I have used
automotive fuel injection for many years. Have not failed...so far.
>
> Jose
>
> shortnaked wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked"
>
> someone had it on this plane with a 582
>
> this is what happened.
>
>
> fuel line should not be automotive either
>
> use urethane NOT TYGON
>
>
> TYGON will harden ina a year
>
>
> hope this helps you
>
> Shorty
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Clem Nichols"
> To:
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: ruptured impulse line
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols"
> >
> > Am I mistaken, or is it OK to use regular automotive fuel line as an
> impulse
> > line?
> >
> > Clem Nichols
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "shortnaked"
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: ruptured impulse line
> >
> >
> > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked"
> > >
> > > anytime
> > >
> > > see i live in a real world and like to try to help out others with
> facts
> > >
> > > pictures prove it
> > >
> > > :)
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Harris, Robert"
> > > To:
> > > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: ruptured impulse line
> > >
> > >
> > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert"
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Thanks for the pics Shorty
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > >> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
shortnaked
> > >> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > >> Subject: Kitfox-List: ruptured impulse line
> > >>
> > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked"
> > >>
> > >> Here you go guys a failure of an impulse line i changed the other
day.
> > >>
> > >> posted on this lazair.com site as it the only way i know how to post
a
> > > pic
> > >> and share it.
> > >> http://lazair.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=268
> > >> Plus if you like LAzair ultralights it full of info adn some MOVIES
up
> > >> to
> > >> 200 mgs
> > >> http://lazair.com/forum/index.php?showforum=12
> > >>
> > >> all free too
> > >>
> > >> gotta like that lol
> > >>
> > >> maybe i should start a kitfox thread there for you guys LOL ( i been
> > >> sneaking some stuff in already adn no complaints)
> > >>
> > >> Shorty
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From:
> > >> To:
> > >> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Backup for Mikuni pump
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
> > >> >
> > >> > << Listers:
> > >> >
> > >> > It looks like replacing the mikuni fuel pump annually with a brand
> new
> > >> one
> > >> > solves the backup pump issue. I would add to this to also replace
> the
> > >> pulse
> > >> > line.
> > >> >
> > >> > To be honest, it makes sense. Seems extremely unlikely to fail
> during
> > >> its
> > >> > first year, and is cheap enough to be economically feasible.
> > >> >
> > >> > You convinced me I made an overkill. This is why I'm an addict to
> > >> > this
> > >> > list...
> > >> >
> > >> > Jose
> > >> > >>
> > >> >
> > >> > Jose,
> > >> > It is a privilege to discuss problems with someone like yourself.
> > > You
> > >> > don't mind saying, "you might have made a mistake". There are
others
> > > that
> > >> would
> > >> > rather die than admit something like that. I like criticism if it's
> > > kept
> > >> > nonpersonal. That's what makes us learn.
> > >> > BTW, I can recall one pump failure (crash landing) that was
> caused
> > > by
> > >> a
> > >> > ruptured pulse line. As I recall, the pulse line had not been
> changed
> > > in
> > >> a
> > >> > long/long time. Pilot error the way I see it.
> > >> >
> > >> > Don Smythe
> > >> > N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> Jose M. Toro, P.E.
> Kitfox II/582
> "A slow flight in the Caribbean..."
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
Jose M. Toro, P.E.
Kitfox II/582
"A slow flight in the Caribbean..."
---------------------------------
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Tail Wheel Attachment |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Comp User" <trebla@directinter.net>
Could you explain a little more on hard to control? Rudder control, pitch,
there are a lot of things that get hard to control.
Albert Smith
5TD
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Tail Wheel Attachment |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" <jablackwell@ev1.net>
Dave
Help me out here. You could probably describe this better than me.
Thanks
Jimmie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Comp User" <trebla@directinter.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tail Wheel Attachment
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Comp User" <trebla@directinter.net>
>
> Could you explain a little more on hard to control? Rudder control, pitch,
> there are a lot of things that get hard to control.
> Albert Smith
> 5TD
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Tail Wheel Attachment |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Brian Peck <u2drvr@dslextreme.com>
I think I understand what you are talking about...
Right around 40 mph, lateral directional control becomes less stable
(more rudder inputs required to keep it going straight). This is due to
the fact that the tailwheel is becoming less effective due to less
weight being on it as the aircraft starts to generate lift. As you
continue to accelerate, the rudder becomes more effective and the
aircraft again becomes easier to control. There is a brief period
(about 40 mph) where the tailwheel is less effective, but the rudder
hasn't yet gained enough authority to compensate fully for this. This
is normal behavior for a tail dragger and crosswind limits should be
based on control effectiveness at the speed of least control. There
have been many cases where people have made good landings in high
crosswinds, only to groundloop and/or depart the runway when slowing
down.
If what I have described fits your situation, then it is normal.
Cheers,
Brian Peck
Kitfox V - IO-240
USAF U-2 Test Pilot
On Nov 20, 2004, at 11:53 AM, Jimmie Blackwell wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell"
> <jablackwell@ev1.net>
>
> Dave
>
> Help me out here. You could probably describe this better than me.
>
> Thanks
>
> Jimmie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Comp User" <trebla@directinter.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tail Wheel Attachment
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Comp User"
>> <trebla@directinter.net>
>>
>> Could you explain a little more on hard to control? Rudder control,
>> pitch,
>> there are a lot of things that get hard to control.
>> Albert Smith
>> 5TD
>>
>>
>
>
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Tail Wheel Attachment |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
I am slightly confused, if you are going 40 that means the tail should be
off the ground. At least I raise my tail off the ground around 40. If the
tail is on the ground at 40 than it is very likely your problem. the shaft
for the wheel should point straight up and down or slightly forward. next,
make sure you have a wheel that locks in place straight forward and releases
with a detent for turning in the hanger. To check for proper wheel
alignment move the rear of the plane around and the wheel should follow, not
have to kick the wheel for direction. Again, when flying, slowly raise your
rpm and watch the air speed, at around 40 start pushing forward on the
stick, you will feel the tail come up, it will feel heavy, now push the
throttle all the way in and stay level, a few seconds later, maybe a second,
pull back on the stick and fly away. You might be experiencing tail wheel
control to rudder transition. I found the sooner you can get the tail off
the ground the better control. Or a little less power at first, get the
tail up, maintain directional control(sometimes a little dancing on the
pedals is in order) and then lift off. I found with a full power take off
you can get a little wish wash on the take off. I found by doing the above
it will eliminate take of ground loops, has anybody experienced that? I
have.
On landing as soon as you touch the runway push the stick forward and apply
a little power, you may need to dance the rudder again to get things
straight, then slowly pull back on the power and add forward stick slightly
and let the tail come down slowly and NOT let it drop suddenly, could be
that the tail is bouncing, but anyway let the tail come down when it's
through flying. The kitfox is a tough one to get use to but the most
enjoyable. Once you master the kitfox you definatly have a feeling of
accomplishment. Another thing you can practice is slow speed flight. Sort
of put the fox in slow flight and keep it from falling off. You'll learn
real quick how to dance the rudder, can be quite fun. Then go 10 feet off
the runway and do the same thing, put yourself in slow flight and keep it
straight down the runway without landing. These things are fun and give
great purpose to flying, try it. If you have trouble with these things,
take an instructor up with you and do them, at any rate you need to practice
these things.
steve a
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jimmie
Blackwell
Subject: Kitfox-List: Tail Wheel Attachment
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" <jablackwell@ev1.net>
In the last few weeks I have been having a lot of fun learning to fly my
Model IV Speedster. There are a couple of issues that perhaps this list can
help me resolve. First, when landing or taking off there is a period of
time at about 35-40 mph that my plane gets notably more difficult to
control. Above or below this speed it is rather easy to control on the
ground. Second, and this may be related to the first issue, my tail wheel
is slanted slightly backward where the tail wheel attaches to the tail
spring. Seems I remember reading somewhere that the tail wheel should be
slanted slightly forward. Hopefully, some of you have some ideas and
experience on how to correct these issues if they are indeed a problem.
I forgot to mention, my tail wheel spring is the solid Grove spring.
Thanks in advance.
Jimmie
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Tail Wheel Attachment |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
sorry but why are you on the ground at 40 mph?
tailwheel will come up just after start of TO roll and rotate 30 to 35 and
you gone.
are you flying a 700 lb plane empty or sumthing ?
once agwain when you land 35 mph your tailwheel should touch first an
mains right after.
keep on top of rudder at all times and be aware of winds and cross winds.
once below 30 mph stick back to keep tail firmly on ground. amd stick
into wind with a front quarting crosswinds
Shorty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jimmie Blackwell" <jablackwell@ev1.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tail Wheel Attachment
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell"
<jablackwell@ev1.net>
>
> Dave
>
> Help me out here. You could probably describe this better than me.
>
> Thanks
>
> Jimmie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Comp User" <trebla@directinter.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tail Wheel Attachment
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Comp User" <trebla@directinter.net>
> >
> > Could you explain a little more on hard to control? Rudder control,
pitch,
> > there are a lot of things that get hard to control.
> > Albert Smith
> > 5TD
> >
> >
>
>
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | [PLEASE READ] More What Listers Are Saying... |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
We are nearing the end of this year's List Fund Raiser and I wanted to
share a few more of the really nice things members have been saying about
what the Lists mean to them. Please take a minute to read over a few of
the wonderful comments below and feel free to make a Contribution to
support your lists as well. There are some nifty gifts to be had this year
too, so hurry and sign up for your's today!! The List Contribution Web
Site can be found at:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I want to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution already
this year! It is your generosity that keeps these Lists up and running.
THANK YOU!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
----------- Lot's More of "What Listers Are Saying" ------------
Flexible, easy to use, fast, technically superior, and absolutely
SPAM-free. Incredible!
-Terry W.
This list has saved me many days/months of searching
and learning for the best for my home building experience.
-John F.
...the information available on the lists are a real help to me.
-Roger O.
Just finished flying off my 40-hours on the Zenith 601HDS
with Stratus engine. Couldn't have done it without your
site and the help of the guys on the List.
-Larry M.
It is a great service.
-Robert K.
[The] List is a great asset to me...
-David M.
The YAK list has been a great resource to me.
-Walt Murphy
An ongoing valuable resource, as usual.
-Dennis N.
Your's is a great service!
-John J.
The List was the most useful help building.
-Lothar K.
Excellent source of information.
-Tony C.
...it's a great forum.
-Lar
...tremendous resource.
-Robert S.
...great service.
-Johann J.
In addition to being a valuable technical resource, the List
is doubly worthwhile for the support and encouragement from
other builders.
-Al H.
...great tool.
-Mark S.
...great service.
-Peter T.
...couldn't have even contemplated doing this without the help of the List.
-John L.
I find a lot of useful info on the List...
-Frank C.
Many thanks for providing this commercial free service.
-Fred K.
...excellent web site.
-Ross H.
Your list represents a daily activity for me, and I would
miss it, if it were not available, just as you have
presented it.
-George R.
The information that I have gleaned from the lists has saved me
many hours of head scratching, and many thousands of dollars.
-Kevin H.
...really like your site especially the archives.
-Don W.
You could say the List "changed my life," since that's what
caused Monument Valley to happen and that certainly is a high point.
-Dave P.
...awesome service!
-Grant K.
Your labor is 1st Class!!!
-William C.
...great resource!
-Sam B.
This is a truly amazing list service.
-Terry W.
Another year of great service from the list.
-Pat H.
It's really a big help.
-Clay K.
[The] lists [are] very helpful.
-Richard C.
Great service, great work.
-Dwight F.
The List is fun and informative...
-Jack H.
...great list.
-Dennis E.
I have learned a lot from [the List].
-Joel G.
I especially appreciate keeping unwanted advertisers out!!!!
-Lothar K.
Invaluable!
-Larry M.
Great list.
-Lothar K.
...I have made many good friends along the way.
-Kevin H.
...you have provided a good service for those who wish to help others.
-Jack H.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 22
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| Subject: | NSI EA-81 fuel injection |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>Spooky? I know what you mean. That honestly is the
>reason I haven't ventured anywhere near as high as the
>NSI KF would go. Flight levels are OK with me in a
>Boeing with a cockpit the size of my study, but in a
>little KF with a full glass door next to me and the
>feeling I would only be a bug on a jet's window....
Before the accident, I took N728KF, my 912S-powered Model IV-1200
Speedster to 17,500. It was well above standard temperature (-2C),
but she was still climbing 300 ft/min (measured with stopwatch &
altimeter). She was not equipped well enough to call up ABQ center
for a clearance, so I stayed below the class A for a little while
then began re-entry. True airspeed wasn't all that impressive, but
the view was spectacular (and a bit spooky)!
Mike G.
N728KF
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: I am pulling the 532...(Kurt). |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 11/20/04 6:09:06 AM Pacific Standard Time,
pianome2@mchsi.com writes:
<<
Don, You are correct, Harters' plane had a vapor lock problem...I ended up
doing what he did on my -4 to solve that problem. Also, we both used the
fuel pump on take off.....it ran at cruise power without the pump.
Howard Firm
508 12th St. South >>
Yes, I remember now. It seems his pump would not pump fuel when located
in the engine compartment. One day after he relocated it, we were flying over
the middle of the Chesapeake Bay going to Tangier Island for lunch and he
said, "Look how great this works" and, switches off the fuel pump. My comment
was, "Can't you show me that over land." I miss that jerk.
For those that might be new to the list, Michael Harter owned a Classic
IV w/ NSI. A couple years ago, he flew into a blind canyon in Arizona and
didn't make it out.
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Initial BING 54 Idle adjustment setting & thingamajiggys |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
<< rebuilt them and have everything set for initial running EXCEPT that I
can't find anything that tells me how far out I should set the Large Idle
screw initially. That's the Big screw that sets the idle speed.>>
I don't have the info in front of me but basically, do it this way. Turn the
large screw out until it doesn't contact the slide. Turn them in until it
"JUST" contacts the slide. You can tell when this happens by raising and
dropping the slide. When the sound changes, you have contact. The sound will
go
from a "clink" to a "thump". It's easy to hear the difference. Once you have
that point, screw in the large screw XXX more turns. Sorry, I forget the
exact number but it's on the web is several places. Once the engine is broke in,
you may need to readjust this setting. The RPM's will go "UP" after the
breakin and you might have a hard time landing.
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 25
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Agree 100 percent.
Darrel
...snip
> proposed pumps, valves, switches, tubing, check valves, etc. is
> beginning to make me nervous. I think I'll keep Tootie Mae as simple as
> I can with a well maintained mechanical pump, gravity feed, and one
> master fuel valve.
> Jerry Liles
Message 26
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
<< Agree 100 percent.
Darrel
...snip
> proposed pumps, valves, switches, tubing, check valves, etc. is
> beginning to make me nervous. I think I'll keep Tootie Mae as simple as
> I can with a well maintained mechanical pump, gravity feed, and one
> master fuel valve.
> Jerry Liles
>>
DITTO
Do Not Archive
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 27
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DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=6pxsWcPP4uIUSIxfRwZ0KK2hKeIa1gFJN4JKjo/yoDVKrlpUOVKGDUMMPabnUlRHZqmyyeyG0PLoTiCCB8PM44qSF5ZvJR7bf+xTBqK1m4DTN89WA2Jsmkz0dLRPY0S4X4/ESP5ul16w7E4VqmmyVt7iyx8erRSecXAHQYrTzMw=
;
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Oopps,
My mistake Peter. I had mistaken some of your
fittings for check valves. Sorry.
Have you had any problem with your fuel flow meter
accuracy? That looks like the sender right after the
pumps. Mine is required to be at least 18" away.
Maybe it wasn't that critical?
Kurt S. S-5/NSI tirbo
--- Peter Graichen <n10pg@neo.rr.com> wrote:
>> Hello Rex:
> There is a photo of my fuel pump plumbing scheme on
> my web site. Pumps in parallel with no check valves,
> all located underneath the passenger seat.
> Has worked flawlessly for 900 hrs (9 years)
> Peter Graichen
> http://home.neo.rr.com/n10pg/kitfox.htm
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re flooding due to ruptured diaphram |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
What I mean is that the backup pump will take care of providing appropriate
fuel
pressure to the carbs, but at the same time the mikuni pump with the damaged
diaphragm will take care of flooding the crankcase, and will eventually stop
the engine. Could be solved by using a valve to close the gas source to the
mikuni,
but will the engine restart after it got flooded?
Thanks Jose for clarifying that. In my original posting I think I did have a
valve/tap installed before the Mikuni pump for that reason. As explained
elsewhere I agree the the flooding before you can turn off that valve may
kill the engine. However I think it will windmill and clear itself once that
valve is turned off. Turning on the backup pump will then supply a correct
mixture via the carbs. The plugs will be wet but should come good as the
motor will be warm and the motor restart. I appreciate Don's comment that he
feels we have to assume it wouldn't start until someone proves it will.
However we can either similate a test to see or set up a system and hope it
works when we need it. That can be a personal choice either way and that
choice should be respected. I have played with two strokes in Kart Racing
for many years and I'd bet my life on the fact I'd get it restarted. It
would be good to allow a few seconds to clear the flooding before turning on
the backup pump though. That's my decision but if Don or anyone else doesn't
want to trust it to restart and so not install the system until proof is at
hand then I have to respect that. Howeverdiscussing this to evolve a system
is what it is all about and in the process we are bound to have situations
like this. If we let this stop us evolving a possible system then we will
not ever do that. We can evolve a system but choose not to act on it until
points like this are proven if we feel happier than installing it with
theoretical confidence. Perhaps some proof on this point will come to hand,
however as I say I feel confident enough on this point myself to go ahead.
Thanks all for the contributions. I feel I for one have got something out of
it.
Rex.
rexjan@bigpond.com
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