---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 12/08/04: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:52 AM - West Epoxy (Michel Verheughe) 2. 08:02 AM - Re: West Epoxy (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 3. 10:36 AM - SV: West Epoxy (Michel Verheughe) 4. 10:43 AM - SV: cling wrap. (Michel Verheughe) 5. 01:37 PM - Great Website! (Steve Zakreski) 6. 02:45 PM - Re: Great Website! (John Oakley) 7. 02:51 PM - My plane is a Classic IV. It also has the shorter wings. I ordered the (Rex & Jan Shaw) 8. 02:52 PM - Re: Great Website! (John Oakley) 9. 03:03 PM - Re: My plane is a Classic IV. It also has the shorter wings. I ordered the (flier) 10. 03:25 PM - Local Flyers (Gunn, Michael (Space Technology)) 11. 03:41 PM - Re: My plane is a Classic IV. It also has the shorter wings. I ordered the (jdmcbean) 12. 03:49 PM - Re: Great Website! (Fred Shiple) 13. 05:22 PM - Re: My plane is a Classic IV. It also has the shorter wings. I ordered the (customtrans@qwest.net) 14. 06:50 PM - Re: My plane is a Classic IV. It also has the shorter wings. I ordered the (Lowell Fitt) 15. 07:45 PM - Re: My plane is a Classic IV. It also has the shorter wings. I ordered the (Lynn Matteson) 16. 09:06 PM - Test/ turned on Rich Text Editor (Clint Bazzill) 17. 09:13 PM - Re: My plane is a Classic IV. It also has the shorter (Tom Jones) 18. 09:33 PM - Re: My plane is a Classic IV. It also has the shorter wings. I ordered the (jdmcbean) 19. 09:33 PM - Re: Test/ turned on Rich Text Editor (Don Pearsall) 20. 10:00 PM - 912 Ignition Module Problem (SOURDOSTAN@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:52:45 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: West Epoxy --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > From: AlbertaIV@aol.com > My point exactly. I was immune for many years then all of a sudden, I > was bitten. You might want to consider some precaution. Thanks for warning me, Don. Do you think the intolerance comes from the air or through skin contact? Usually, when I work with glass fiber, I use a dust mask because it is nasty when it gets in your lungs. But I don't have a mask that filters various gas. For skin contact, I could try to use gloves. Although I don't like it at all. Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:02:36 AM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: West Epoxy --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com In a message dated 12/8/04 7:53:49 AM Pacific Standard Time, michel@online.no writes: << Thanks for warning me, Don. Do you think the intolerance comes from the air or through skin contact? Usually, when I work with glass fiber, I use a dust mask because it is nasty when it gets in your lungs. But I don't have a mask that filters various gas. For skin contact, I could try to use gloves. Although I don't like it at all. Cheers, Michel >> Michel, It is through chemical action in the air because I usually swell up around the eyes. Actually swelled so bad once that I had "zero" eye sockets. My Doctor told me the chemical/air problem was not near as bad as sanding the dry dust. The sanding part will play havoc on your lungs. Don Smythe N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:36:18 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: West Epoxy --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > From: AlbertaIV@aol.com > It is through chemical action in the air because I usually swell up > around the eyes. Which then means: good ventilation ... which is a bit of a challenge in winter Norway! :-( Thanks anyway, Don, I'll try to be careful. Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:43:28 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: cling wrap. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > From: kurt schrader [smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com] > It is the clear plastic food wrap. Ok, thanks Kurt, I'll try that on a small sample. Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:37:35 PM PST US From: Steve Zakreski Subject: Kitfox-List: Great Website! --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski Maybe this is old news to you guys, but I just discovered the greatest aviation website: http://www.whittsflying.com/index.htm It doesn't look like much when you first go there, but what a wealth of information about everything to do with aviation. It will keep me busy for weeks. You guys haven't been entertaining lately anyway. umm ...... BEEEF! ... I'm outa here. LOL SteveZ Calgary ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:45:38 PM PST US From: "John Oakley" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Great Website! --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Oakley" Steve Z, I just cant believe you would rather go to another web site when we have been discussing great things like cardboard, thread sealer and suck. why even my wife gets excited about cling wrap. why you should stop taking those uppers and stop to smell the poop. such fun, john Oakley, -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve Zakreski Subject: Kitfox-List: Great Website! --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski Maybe this is old news to you guys, but I just discovered the greatest aviation website: http://www.whittsflying.com/index.htm It doesn't look like much when you first go there, but what a wealth of information about everything to do with aviation. It will keep me busy for weeks. You guys haven't been entertaining lately anyway. umm ...... BEEEF! ... I'm outa here. LOL SteveZ Calgary ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:51:00 PM PST US From: "Rex & Jan Shaw" Subject: Kitfox-List: My plane is a Classic IV. It also has the shorter wings. I ordered the --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" My plane is a Classic IV. It also has the shorter wings. I ordered the Speedster when I purchased the kit, then when I got the kit, they told me it was a Classic IV with speedster mods. I called it the Classic IV Speedster when I spoke with tech support several years ago. They told me it was a Classic IV without the Speedster title, however when I told them that I ordered a Speedster not a classic IV, they said a Speedster was a classic IV with Speedster mods. So, I guess I will call it a Classic IV Speedster because nobody at Skystar will tell me what I have. What ever the name, the gross weight is 1200 lbs, and it has airfoiled tailfeathers and short wings. I read all this with interest and amusement. I bought my plane from the original builder 12 months ago. At that time when he was selling it I wanted to verify his claims. I contacted Skystar and experienced all this with no real solid set in concrete definition of what my plane is. I found this very strange and a bit disturbing at the time. However the main point I thought I got out of all this was that my plane with the 32ft laminar flow wing [ ie:- flat across the bottom ] is called the "Speedster" and the normal wing cut down to 29ft when built is called " Speedwing " I am not going to argue about it however as I am fast coming to the impression that no one really knows strangely enough. I guess a lot of us have gained different ideas and in the end thought we had it sorted. Anyway does it really matter if one is happy with what they have got ? It's just that the lack of a definite name leaves a certain amount of confusion as to what exactly one is talking about. Skystar originally told me I could not have a Speedster with my serial number as it came later. They then told me the Speedster was not a 29ft cut down wing but the 32ft laminar flow wing. Can you work it out ? Rex. Australia. rexjan@bigpond.com ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:52:11 PM PST US From: "John Oakley" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Great Website! --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Oakley" steve, that was thread sealer and such. sorry.. john -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Oakley Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Great Website! --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Oakley" Steve Z, I just cant believe you would rather go to another web site when we have been discussing great things like cardboard, thread sealer and suck. why even my wife gets excited about cling wrap. why you should stop taking those uppers and stop to smell the poop. such fun, john Oakley, -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve Zakreski Subject: Kitfox-List: Great Website! --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski Maybe this is old news to you guys, but I just discovered the greatest aviation website: http://www.whittsflying.com/index.htm It doesn't look like much when you first go there, but what a wealth of information about everything to do with aviation. It will keep me busy for weeks. You guys haven't been entertaining lately anyway. umm ...... BEEEF! ... I'm outa here. LOL SteveZ Calgary ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:03:17 PM PST US From: "flier" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: My plane is a Classic IV. It also has the shorter wings. I ordered the --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" Below is from the Kitfox history. Note that the Model IV, Classic IV, and Speedster wing is laminar flow and is not flat bottom. It is slightly concave. I personally have a 4-1200. The main difference between it and a Speedster was the cutdown wing, split flaperons, tail weldments to support the ribs/gap seals, and the fairings. I added all the Speedster fairings to my IV-1200. You've either got a Model 4 Speedster or a regular Model 4-1200 with some Speedster options. Model 4-1200 (1992) Serial #1723- The Model 4-1200, currently sold by SkyStar as the Classic IV, is the final evolution of the original Denney Kitfox design. One of the most successful kits on the market today, the Classic IV kit has been on the market for almost 8 years. The Classic IV has heavier lift struts and gear legs as well as beefed up carry through tubes in the fuselage to allow a higher gross weight than earlier Model 4 kits. The height of the vertical stabilizer and rudder were increased by 10 inches and the rudder depth was increased 2 inches to allow for improved handling. The Classic IV is also available in a short wing Speedster configuration for pilots who want more speed and faster roll rate. The Speedster package streamlines the Classic IV with a variety of fairings and adds 10-20 mph to this models top speed. Gross weight 1200 lbs. Average cruise speed 105 mph Stall Speed 34 mph Average empty weight 550 lbs. Average useful load 650 lbs. Max speed (Vne) 125 mph (140 mph w/ Speedster) Cabin width 41 in. Wing span 32 ft. (29 ft w/ Speedster) Length (wings folded) 21 ft. 1 in. Width (wings folded) 7 ft. 11 in. Height 68.5 in. --- Original Message --- From: "Rex & Jan Shaw" Subject: Kitfox-List: My plane is a Classic IV. It also has the shorter wings. I ordered the >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" > >My plane is a Classic IV. It also has the shorter wings. I ordered the >Speedster when I purchased the kit, then when I got the kit, they told me it >was a Classic IV with speedster mods. I called it the Classic IV Speedster >when I spoke with tech support several years ago. They told me it was a >Classic IV without the Speedster title, however when I told them that I >ordered a Speedster not a classic IV, they said a Speedster was a classic IV >with Speedster mods. So, I guess I will call it a Classic IV Speedster >because nobody at Skystar will tell me what I have. What ever the name, the >gross weight is 1200 lbs, and it has airfoiled tailfeathers and short wings. > >I read all this with interest and amusement. I bought my plane from the >original builder 12 months ago. At that time when he was selling it I wanted >to verify his claims. I contacted Skystar and experienced all this with no >real solid set in concrete definition of what my plane is. I found this very >strange and a bit disturbing at the time. However the main point I thought I >got out of all this was that my plane with the 32ft laminar flow wing [ ie:- >flat across the bottom ] is called the "Speedster" and the normal wing cut >down to 29ft when built is called " Speedwing " I am not going to argue >about it however as I am fast coming to the impression that no one really >knows strangely enough. I guess a lot of us have gained different ideas and >in the end thought we had it sorted. Anyway does it really matter if one is >happy with what they have got ? It's just that the lack of a definite name >leaves a certain amount of confusion as to what exactly one is talking >about. Skystar originally told me I could not have a Speedster with my >serial number as it came later. They then told me the Speedster was not a >29ft cut down wing but the 32ft laminar flow wing. Can you work it out ? > >Rex. > >Australia. >rexjan@bigpond.com > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:25:06 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Local Flyers From: "Gunn, Michael (Space Technology)" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gunn, Michael (Space Technology)" Is there anyone on the list flying with a 912 in the Southern California area? Mike N5291R ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:41:24 PM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: My plane is a Classic IV. It also has the shorter wings. I ordered the --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" This is really entertaining... considering they are all Model IV's A Rose by any other name is still a Rose......... Blue Skies John & Debra McBean www.sportplanellc.com "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of flier Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: My plane is a Classic IV. It also has the shorter wings. I ordered the --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" Below is from the Kitfox history. Note that the Model IV, Classic IV, and Speedster wing is laminar flow and is not flat bottom. It is slightly concave. I personally have a 4-1200. The main difference between it and a Speedster was the cutdown wing, split flaperons, tail weldments to support the ribs/gap seals, and the fairings. I added all the Speedster fairings to my IV-1200. You've either got a Model 4 Speedster or a regular Model 4-1200 with some Speedster options. Model 4-1200 (1992) Serial #1723- The Model 4-1200, currently sold by SkyStar as the Classic IV, is the final evolution of the original Denney Kitfox design. One of the most successful kits on the market today, the Classic IV kit has been on the market for almost 8 years. The Classic IV has heavier lift struts and gear legs as well as beefed up carry through tubes in the fuselage to allow a higher gross weight than earlier Model 4 kits. The height of the vertical stabilizer and rudder were increased by 10 inches and the rudder depth was increased 2 inches to allow for improved handling. The Classic IV is also available in a short wing Speedster configuration for pilots who want more speed and faster roll rate. The Speedster package streamlines the Classic IV with a variety of fairings and adds 10-20 mph to this models top speed. Gross weight 1200 lbs. Average cruise speed 105 mph Stall Speed 34 mph Average empty weight 550 lbs. Average useful load 650 lbs. Max speed (Vne) 125 mph (140 mph w/ Speedster) Cabin width 41 in. Wing span 32 ft. (29 ft w/ Speedster) Length (wings folded) 21 ft. 1 in. Width (wings folded) 7 ft. 11 in. Height 68.5 in. --- Original Message --- From: "Rex & Jan Shaw" Subject: Kitfox-List: My plane is a Classic IV. It also has the shorter wings. I ordered the >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" > >My plane is a Classic IV. It also has the shorter wings. I ordered the >Speedster when I purchased the kit, then when I got the kit, they told me it >was a Classic IV with speedster mods. I called it the Classic IV Speedster >when I spoke with tech support several years ago. They told me it was a >Classic IV without the Speedster title, however when I told them that I >ordered a Speedster not a classic IV, they said a Speedster was a classic IV >with Speedster mods. So, I guess I will call it a Classic IV Speedster >because nobody at Skystar will tell me what I have. What ever the name, the >gross weight is 1200 lbs, and it has airfoiled tailfeathers and short wings. > >I read all this with interest and amusement. I bought my plane from the >original builder 12 months ago. At that time when he was selling it I wanted >to verify his claims. I contacted Skystar and experienced all this with no >real solid set in concrete definition of what my plane is. I found this very >strange and a bit disturbing at the time. However the main point I thought I >got out of all this was that my plane with the 32ft laminar flow wing [ ie:- >flat across the bottom ] is called the "Speedster" and the normal wing cut >down to 29ft when built is called " Speedwing " I am not going to argue >about it however as I am fast coming to the impression that no one really >knows strangely enough. I guess a lot of us have gained different ideas and >in the end thought we had it sorted. Anyway does it really matter if one is >happy with what they have got ? It's just that the lack of a definite name >leaves a certain amount of confusion as to what exactly one is talking >about. Skystar originally told me I could not have a Speedster with my >serial number as it came later. They then told me the Speedster was not a >29ft cut down wing but the 32ft laminar flow wing. Can you work it out ? > >Rex. > >Australia. >rexjan@bigpond.com > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:49:10 PM PST US From: Fred Shiple Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Great Website! --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Fred Shiple Great site. Thanks,Steve. Fred do not archive ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:22:50 PM PST US From: customtrans@qwest.net Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: My plane is a Classic IV. It also has the shorter wings. I ordered the --> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net I one question: On the Vne it says 125 and 140 with speedster. Does that mean if you shorten the wings the Vne goes to 140? steve a -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of flier Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: My plane is a Classic IV. It also has the shorter wings. I ordered the --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" Below is from the Kitfox history. Note that the Model IV, Classic IV, and Speedster wing is laminar flow and is not flat bottom. It is slightly concave. I personally have a 4-1200. The main difference between it and a Speedster was the cutdown wing, split flaperons, tail weldments to support the ribs/gap seals, and the fairings. I added all the Speedster fairings to my IV-1200. You've either got a Model 4 Speedster or a regular Model 4-1200 with some Speedster options. Model 4-1200 (1992) Serial #1723- The Model 4-1200, currently sold by SkyStar as the Classic IV, is the final evolution of the original Denney Kitfox design. One of the most successful kits on the market today, the Classic IV kit has been on the market for almost 8 years. The Classic IV has heavier lift struts and gear legs as well as beefed up carry through tubes in the fuselage to allow a higher gross weight than earlier Model 4 kits. The height of the vertical stabilizer and rudder were increased by 10 inches and the rudder depth was increased 2 inches to allow for improved handling. The Classic IV is also available in a short wing Speedster configuration for pilots who want more speed and faster roll rate. The Speedster package streamlines the Classic IV with a variety of fairings and adds 10-20 mph to this models top speed. Gross weight 1200 lbs. Average cruise speed 105 mph Stall Speed 34 mph Average empty weight 550 lbs. Average useful load 650 lbs. Max speed (Vne) 125 mph (140 mph w/ Speedster) Cabin width 41 in. Wing span 32 ft. (29 ft w/ Speedster) Length (wings folded) 21 ft. 1 in. Width (wings folded) 7 ft. 11 in. Height 68.5 in. --- Original Message --- From: "Rex & Jan Shaw" Subject: Kitfox-List: My plane is a Classic IV. It also has the shorter wings. I ordered the >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" > >My plane is a Classic IV. It also has the shorter wings. I ordered the >Speedster when I purchased the kit, then when I got the kit, they told me it >was a Classic IV with speedster mods. I called it the Classic IV Speedster >when I spoke with tech support several years ago. They told me it was a >Classic IV without the Speedster title, however when I told them that I >ordered a Speedster not a classic IV, they said a Speedster was a classic IV >with Speedster mods. So, I guess I will call it a Classic IV Speedster >because nobody at Skystar will tell me what I have. What ever the name, the >gross weight is 1200 lbs, and it has airfoiled tailfeathers and short wings. > >I read all this with interest and amusement. I bought my plane from the >original builder 12 months ago. At that time when he was selling it I wanted >to verify his claims. I contacted Skystar and experienced all this with no >real solid set in concrete definition of what my plane is. I found this very >strange and a bit disturbing at the time. However the main point I thought I >got out of all this was that my plane with the 32ft laminar flow wing [ ie:- >flat across the bottom ] is called the "Speedster" and the normal wing cut >down to 29ft when built is called " Speedwing " I am not going to argue >about it however as I am fast coming to the impression that no one really >knows strangely enough. I guess a lot of us have gained different ideas and >in the end thought we had it sorted. Anyway does it really matter if one is >happy with what they have got ? It's just that the lack of a definite name >leaves a certain amount of confusion as to what exactly one is talking >about. Skystar originally told me I could not have a Speedster with my >serial number as it came later. They then told me the Speedster was not a >29ft cut down wing but the 32ft laminar flow wing. Can you work it out ? > >Rex. > >Australia. >rexjan@bigpond.com > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:50:34 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: My plane is a Classic IV. It also has the shorter wings. I ordered the --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Maybe this will help. First of all "Speed Wing" to my knowledge has never been used with reference to a Kitfox. It is a term that the Avid factory, I believe, used with one of their wing designs. The Speedster was introduced in late 1992 along with the upgrade of the Model IV 1050 to the Model IV 1200. This was a gross weight increase. This also corresponded with the sale of Denney Aerocraft to Phil Reed which became Skystar Aircraft Corp. I ordered my Kitfox from Denney Aerocraft in December of 1992 and it was delivered by Skystar in March of 1993. The Speedster kit was shipped with a distinctive serial number. My serial m\number is CCU 008. The first C represents the month (3) of manufacture. the second C represents the Year of manufacture 9(3) and the U represents standard model. If I had ordered a Speedster, my serial number would be CCS 008 - the S meaning Speedster. Some time later - a year or three, a new President was brought in. His name escapes me for the moment, but one of his first moves was to discontinue the Model IV - long wing and Speedster - in favor of concentrating on the Series V and the purchase of Pulsar. When Ed Downs came back, a year or two after that - I ordered my kit from Ed in 1992 - one of the first things he did was resurrect the Model IV and in keeping with Coca-Cola's resurrection of their original formula, Ed called it the Classic IV, i.e. Classic Coke. The Speedster was not resurrected as an official model designation at that time. The Speedster modifications were always available as options to Model IV / Classic IV builders so anyone that has a Model IV - 1200 or a Classic IV could build an exact Speedster look a like, but it would be considered a Model / Classic IV with Speedster mods. based on serial number. An example might be a classic Corvette. If the serial number shows it to be a wimpy 6 cylinder production model that someone put all the muscle stuff into, it would remain a modified wimp. It might look the same, perform the same and cost the same, but you wouldn't accurately be able to call it anything than a modified such and such. I am not much of a car guy, so apologies for the poor example. All this said, it wouldn't offend me a bit if a Classic IV owner that had all the Speedster modifications, simply referred to his airplane as a Speedster. I think it might be a bit misleading however, if it were presented to a prospective buyer as a Speedster, even though it could be identical in every way to a Speedster, except for the S in the serial number. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rex & Jan Shaw" Subject: Kitfox-List: My plane is a Classic IV. It also has the shorter wings. I ordered the > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" > > My plane is a Classic IV. It also has the shorter wings. I ordered the > Speedster when I purchased the kit, then when I got the kit, they told me it > was a Classic IV with speedster mods. I called it the Classic IV Speedster > when I spoke with tech support several years ago. They told me it was a > Classic IV without the Speedster title, however when I told them that I > ordered a Speedster not a classic IV, they said a Speedster was a classic IV > with Speedster mods. So, I guess I will call it a Classic IV Speedster > because nobody at Skystar will tell me what I have. What ever the name, the > gross weight is 1200 lbs, and it has airfoiled tailfeathers and short wings. > > I read all this with interest and amusement. I bought my plane from the > original builder 12 months ago. At that time when he was selling it I wanted > to verify his claims. I contacted Skystar and experienced all this with no > real solid set in concrete definition of what my plane is. I found this very > strange and a bit disturbing at the time. However the main point I thought I > got out of all this was that my plane with the 32ft laminar flow wing [ ie:- > flat across the bottom ] is called the "Speedster" and the normal wing cut > down to 29ft when built is called " Speedwing " I am not going to argue > about it however as I am fast coming to the impression that no one really > knows strangely enough. I guess a lot of us have gained different ideas and > in the end thought we had it sorted. Anyway does it really matter if one is > happy with what they have got ? It's just that the lack of a definite name > leaves a certain amount of confusion as to what exactly one is talking > about. Skystar originally told me I could not have a Speedster with my > serial number as it came later. They then told me the Speedster was not a > 29ft cut down wing but the 32ft laminar flow wing. Can you work it out ? > > Rex. > > Australia. > rexjan@bigpond.com > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:45:13 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: My plane is a Classic IV. It also has the shorter wings. I ordered the From: Lynn Matteson --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson Thanks for clearing that up, Lowell. My plane is serial numbered ADU 150, and Frank Miller told me that it was built (or sold) in Jan of 1994, so your number /letter code explanation holds true for my plane, a IV-1200. Nice to get an explanation that works. Lynn do not archive On Wednesday, December 8, 2004, at 09:49 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" > My serial > m\number is CCU 008. The first C represents the month (3) of > manufacture. > the second C represents the Year of manufacture 9(3) and the U > represents > standard model. If I had ordered a Speedster, my serial number would > be CCS > 008 - the S meaning Speedster. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:06:23 PM PST US From: "Clint Bazzill" Subject: Kitfox-List: Test/ turned on Rich Text Editor --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clint Bazzill" TEST TEST TEST ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:13:05 PM PST US From: Tom Jones Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: My plane is a Classic IV. It also has the shorter wings. I ordered the --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tom Jones Here's my story, In 1994 I read an article in an Aviation magazine about Skystar's new model of kit plane, called the "XL". I wanted one so flew right over there in my Cherokee to check it out. They informed me the XL was no longer available in the US, only from Skystar France, in France of course. But, they had just introduced a new model called the Classic 4 and it was the same as the XL. So,I ordered the Classic 4 with the 503 Rotax. Then I was a little confused when a big box arrived with parts labeled XL, Series 5, 912 firewall, 582 muffler shield, and, some Classic 4 parts as well. It was supposed to be a complete Kit but no parts were provided to hook up the fuel system or mount the engine to the motor mount. My Classic 4 manual had the engine and fuel system sections for an XL but I didn't have most of those parts. Thanks to the good nature of a fellow they had just hired named Dan Hansen, I eventually was sent enough parts to make a complete airplane. Then the Lite squared was introduced which turned out was supposed to be the same as the classic 4. I have come to the conclusion that the reality is, they are all the same except different. I ended up bending that airplane on the third flight. Skystar took GOOD care of me getting it rebuilt and I support them today for doing that!!! Thanks Skystar, Tom Jones PS, I have a 582 muffler shield if anyone needs one and my series 5 rudder gap seal ended up on a classic 4 in Texas. Lowell Fitt wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" > > Maybe this will help. First of all "Speed Wing" to my knowledge has never > been used with reference to a Kitfox. It is a term that the Avid factory, I > believe, used with one of their wing designs. > > The Speedster was introduced in late 1992 along with the upgrade of the > Model IV 1050 to the Model IV 1200. This was a gross weight increase. This > also corresponded with the sale of Denney Aerocraft to Phil Reed which > became Skystar Aircraft Corp. I ordered my Kitfox from Denney Aerocraft in > December of 1992 and it was delivered by Skystar in March of 1993. The > Speedster kit was shipped with a distinctive serial number. My serial > m\number is CCU 008. The first C represents the month (3) of manufacture. > the second C represents the Year of manufacture 9(3) and the U represents > standard model. If I had ordered a Speedster, my serial number would be CCS > 008 - the S meaning Speedster. > > Some time later - a year or three, a new President was brought in. His name > escapes me for the moment, but one of his first moves was to discontinue the > Model IV - long wing and Speedster - in favor of concentrating on the Series > V and the purchase of Pulsar. When Ed Downs came back, a year or two after > that - I ordered my kit from Ed in 1992 - one of the first things he did was > resurrect the Model IV and in keeping with Coca-Cola's resurrection of their > original formula, Ed called it the Classic IV, i.e. Classic Coke. The > Speedster was not resurrected as an official model designation at that time. > > The Speedster modifications were always available as options to Model IV / > Classic IV builders so anyone that has a Model IV - 1200 or a Classic IV > could build an exact Speedster look a like, but it would be considered a > Model / Classic IV with Speedster mods. based on serial number. > > An example might be a classic Corvette. If the serial number shows it to be > a wimpy 6 cylinder production model that someone put all the muscle stuff > into, it would remain a modified wimp. It might look the same, perform the > same and cost the same, but you wouldn't accurately be able to call it > anything than a modified such and such. I am not much of a car guy, so > apologies for the poor example. > > All this said, it wouldn't offend me a bit if a Classic IV owner that had > all the Speedster modifications, simply referred to his airplane as a > Speedster. I think it might be a bit misleading however, if it were > presented to a prospective buyer as a Speedster, even though it could be > identical in every way to a Speedster, except for the S in the serial > number. > > Lowell > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rex & Jan Shaw" > To: > Subject: Kitfox-List: My plane is a Classic IV. It also has the shorter > wings. I ordered the > > > >>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" >> >>My plane is a Classic IV. It also has the shorter wings. I ordered the >>Speedster when I purchased the kit, then when I got the kit, they told me > > it > >>was a Classic IV with speedster mods. I called it the Classic IV > > Speedster > >>when I spoke with tech support several years ago. They told me it was a >>Classic IV without the Speedster title, however when I told them that I >>ordered a Speedster not a classic IV, they said a Speedster was a classic > > IV > >>with Speedster mods. So, I guess I will call it a Classic IV Speedster >>because nobody at Skystar will tell me what I have. What ever the name, > > the > >>gross weight is 1200 lbs, and it has airfoiled tailfeathers and short > > wings. > >>I read all this with interest and amusement. I bought my plane from the >>original builder 12 months ago. At that time when he was selling it I > > wanted > >>to verify his claims. I contacted Skystar and experienced all this with no >>real solid set in concrete definition of what my plane is. I found this > > very > >>strange and a bit disturbing at the time. However the main point I thought > > I > >>got out of all this was that my plane with the 32ft laminar flow wing [ > > ie:- > >>flat across the bottom ] is called the "Speedster" and the normal wing cut >>down to 29ft when built is called " Speedwing " I am not going to argue >>about it however as I am fast coming to the impression that no one really >>knows strangely enough. I guess a lot of us have gained different ideas > > and > >>in the end thought we had it sorted. Anyway does it really matter if one > > is > >>happy with what they have got ? It's just that the lack of a definite name >>leaves a certain amount of confusion as to what exactly one is talking >>about. Skystar originally told me I could not have a Speedster with my >>serial number as it came later. They then told me the Speedster was not a >>29ft cut down wing but the 32ft laminar flow wing. Can you work it out ? >> >>Rex. >> >>Australia. >>rexjan@bigpond.com >> >> > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:33:48 PM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: My plane is a Classic IV. It also has the shorter wings. I ordered the --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" Right on Lowell..... They also changes the serial number with the Classic IV designation. You are also correct about not being a car guy.. :) Blue Skies John & Debra McBean www.sportplanellc.com "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: My plane is a Classic IV. It also has the shorter wings. I ordered the --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Maybe this will help. First of all "Speed Wing" to my knowledge has never been used with reference to a Kitfox. It is a term that the Avid factory, I believe, used with one of their wing designs. The Speedster was introduced in late 1992 along with the upgrade of the Model IV 1050 to the Model IV 1200. This was a gross weight increase. This also corresponded with the sale of Denney Aerocraft to Phil Reed which became Skystar Aircraft Corp. I ordered my Kitfox from Denney Aerocraft in December of 1992 and it was delivered by Skystar in March of 1993. The Speedster kit was shipped with a distinctive serial number. My serial m\number is CCU 008. The first C represents the month (3) of manufacture. the second C represents the Year of manufacture 9(3) and the U represents standard model. If I had ordered a Speedster, my serial number would be CCS 008 - the S meaning Speedster. Some time later - a year or three, a new President was brought in. His name escapes me for the moment, but one of his first moves was to discontinue the Model IV - long wing and Speedster - in favor of concentrating on the Series V and the purchase of Pulsar. When Ed Downs came back, a year or two after that - I ordered my kit from Ed in 1992 - one of the first things he did was resurrect the Model IV and in keeping with Coca-Cola's resurrection of their original formula, Ed called it the Classic IV, i.e. Classic Coke. The Speedster was not resurrected as an official model designation at that time. The Speedster modifications were always available as options to Model IV / Classic IV builders so anyone that has a Model IV - 1200 or a Classic IV could build an exact Speedster look a like, but it would be considered a Model / Classic IV with Speedster mods. based on serial number. An example might be a classic Corvette. If the serial number shows it to be a wimpy 6 cylinder production model that someone put all the muscle stuff into, it would remain a modified wimp. It might look the same, perform the same and cost the same, but you wouldn't accurately be able to call it anything than a modified such and such. I am not much of a car guy, so apologies for the poor example. All this said, it wouldn't offend me a bit if a Classic IV owner that had all the Speedster modifications, simply referred to his airplane as a Speedster. I think it might be a bit misleading however, if it were presented to a prospective buyer as a Speedster, even though it could be identical in every way to a Speedster, except for the S in the serial number. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rex & Jan Shaw" Subject: Kitfox-List: My plane is a Classic IV. It also has the shorter wings. I ordered the > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" > > My plane is a Classic IV. It also has the shorter wings. I ordered the > Speedster when I purchased the kit, then when I got the kit, they told me it > was a Classic IV with speedster mods. I called it the Classic IV Speedster > when I spoke with tech support several years ago. They told me it was a > Classic IV without the Speedster title, however when I told them that I > ordered a Speedster not a classic IV, they said a Speedster was a classic IV > with Speedster mods. So, I guess I will call it a Classic IV Speedster > because nobody at Skystar will tell me what I have. What ever the name, the > gross weight is 1200 lbs, and it has airfoiled tailfeathers and short wings. > > I read all this with interest and amusement. I bought my plane from the > original builder 12 months ago. At that time when he was selling it I wanted > to verify his claims. I contacted Skystar and experienced all this with no > real solid set in concrete definition of what my plane is. I found this very > strange and a bit disturbing at the time. However the main point I thought I > got out of all this was that my plane with the 32ft laminar flow wing [ ie:- > flat across the bottom ] is called the "Speedster" and the normal wing cut > down to 29ft when built is called " Speedwing " I am not going to argue > about it however as I am fast coming to the impression that no one really > knows strangely enough. I guess a lot of us have gained different ideas and > in the end thought we had it sorted. Anyway does it really matter if one is > happy with what they have got ? It's just that the lack of a definite name > leaves a certain amount of confusion as to what exactly one is talking > about. Skystar originally told me I could not have a Speedster with my > serial number as it came later. They then told me the Speedster was not a > 29ft cut down wing but the 32ft laminar flow wing. Can you work it out ? > > Rex. > > Australia. > rexjan@bigpond.com > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:33:57 PM PST US From: "Don Pearsall" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Test/ turned on Rich Text Editor --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" Alright Clint! Your message made it to the list. (His email was being rejected by Majordomo) Don Pearsall List Admin -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clint Bazzill Subject: Kitfox-List: Test/ turned on Rich Text Editor --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clint Bazzill" TEST TEST TEST ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:00:44 PM PST US From: SOURDOSTAN@aol.com Subject: Kitfox-List: 912 Ignition Module Problem --> Kitfox-List message posted by: SOURDOSTAN@aol.com A friend is experiencing a problem with one of his 912 ignition modules on his Model IV Speedster. One module appears to not be working, so he switched all wires with the other unit. It still does not work. Is there some way to verify the condition of an ignition module? If it needs replacing, has anyone found a source other than the Rotax dealers at a price that doesn't take your breath away, or does anyone have a working spare that he might borrow to try on his engine? Thanks for your ideas, and Happy Holidays. Stan Specht N16KC "Columbine" Kitfox Model IV Speedster 912ul