Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:33 AM - SV: Will Planes from v.7 work with v.8? (Michel Verheughe)
2. 04:58 AM - SV: Jabber Engine Air Intake (Michel Verheughe)
3. 05:04 AM - SV: Engine ram air intake (Michel Verheughe)
4. 06:23 AM - Re: Skystar (Roger McConnell)
5. 06:47 AM - Re: Skystar (shortnaked)
6. 07:10 AM - Michel 's X-plane Kitfox (Harris, Robert)
7. 07:27 AM - Re: Skystar (Steve Zakreski)
8. 07:51 AM - Re: Skystar (customtrans@qwest.net)
9. 07:58 AM - Re: Skystar (shortnaked)
10. 08:02 AM - SKYSTAR FUSS!! (KITFOXPILOT@att.net)
11. 08:08 AM - Ram Air Intake (EMAproducts@aol.com)
12. 08:16 AM - Kitfox talk (shortnaked)
13. 08:33 AM - No Gratuitous Skystar Bashing Please. (Don Pearsall)
14. 08:35 AM - Re: Re: Model KF Simulator? (Ted Palamarek)
15. 08:47 AM - Re: Skystar (Randy Daughenbaugh)
16. 09:04 AM - More Vortex Generators (Randy Daughenbaugh)
17. 09:15 AM - Re: More Vortex Generators (jdmcbean)
18. 10:15 AM - Re: Skystar (Roger McConnell)
19. 10:49 AM - Re: Careful out there! (EMAproducts@aol.com)
20. 11:42 AM - Re: Skystar (customtrans@qwest.net)
21. 11:50 AM - Re: SV: Engine ram air intake (kurt schrader)
22. 12:40 PM - Re: SV: Engine ram air intake (Torgeir Mortensen)
23. 01:45 PM - Re: SV: Engine ram air intake (kurt schrader)
24. 02:19 PM - Re: SV: Engine ram air intake (Torgeir Mortensen)
25. 02:24 PM - Re: Sport Aviation article (Torgeir Mortensen)
26. 02:25 PM - Careful out there! (Fox5flyer)
27. 02:33 PM - Re: Re: Model KF Simulator? (Michel Verheughe)
28. 02:35 PM - Re: West Epoxy (Michel Verheughe)
29. 03:08 PM - Good article on Stalls / spins (shortnaked)
30. 03:13 PM - Re: Changing Props (Torgeir Mortensen)
31. 03:24 PM - Re: Fuel systems (Torgeir Mortensen)
32. 03:24 PM - Re: Changing Props (Gary Algate)
33. 03:35 PM - Re: Changing Props (shortnaked)
34. 04:31 PM - Re: West Epoxy (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
35. 04:38 PM - Re: Changing Props (Clem Nichols)
36. 05:10 PM - Re: Changing Props (Torgeir Mortensen)
37. 05:27 PM - Re: Changing Props (shortnaked)
38. 05:36 PM - Re: Changing Props (Torgeir Mortensen)
39. 05:52 PM - Re: Changing Props (Torgeir Mortensen)
40. 05:53 PM - Re: Changing Props (shortnaked)
41. 07:38 PM - Re: skystar (Dcecil3@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Will Planes from v.7 work with v.8? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
> From: Harris Robert [Robert_Harris@intuit.com]
> Michel, Will your existing X-plane Kitfox work with v.8? If not, then I'll
> just order v.7
Yes, it will, Robert. All v.7 planes work in v.8. Otherwise there wouldn't be anything
to fly in the first release of a new version.
But you won't get what's new in v.8, e.g. the 3D cockpit. However, I'd gladly send
you the new Kitfox now. Just keep in mind that it is not finished. I still
have to sort out a few things with Austin Meyer, the creator of X-Plane, as to;
depth sorting (the cowling doesn't appear at close range) the smoothing of
"cockpit objects" (the glareshield is not smooth rounded like it should).
I also work on a algorithm to find the average wave height based on the wind strenght,
direction and fetch over open water.
... never a dull moment in aviation! :-)
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Jabber Engine Air Intake |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
> From: kurt schrader [smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com]
> http://avidflyeraircraft.com/fatavid_engine.php
Thanks Kurt, very informative! I can't imagine what the world was before we had
this big international community to share things through the internet. Wow!
... (I'll say it again: Wow! :-)
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Engine ram air intake |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
> From: kurt schrader [smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com]
> Check at the bottom of the page Michel. It should
> have a place where you expand, or change the dates.
> I've got another page to send to you too. We'll see
> if I can get that one right.
Ok, I think I have found the problem, Kurt. I read my email and surf the net via
an old version of Netscape on my Macintosh. When I first went to your link,
it came as a mix-up of texts on the top of each other. Then a box appeared saying
that I couldn't use this browser to look at the pages.
I am used to that, and for these javaScript heavy pages, I fire a version of MS
IE. It then came as a nice layout. Yet, there was still that message, at the
bottom, saying that I needed a newer browser. Well, my version of Internet Explorer
is the latest for Macintosh. What can I do?
... yes, dump my Mac and buy a Microsoft compatible PC. :-(
I am afraid that I won't be able to see your pages because someone thinks there
is only one computer in the world, Kurt! :-(
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 4
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Roger McConnell" <rdmac@swbell.net>
Bruce,
I'm about 2 to 3 months behind you in the same situation. You and I are
among 19 other people that SS has said were caught in a certain financial
situation. They say they are actively involved in trying to resolve this
situation. This is the story I have been told anyway. What has Frank told
you? E-mail me off list if you like.
Roger Mac - 2 years 3 month and counting
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bruce
Hoisington
Subject: Kitfox-List: Skystar
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Hoisington"
<bruceh@bendbroadband.com>
To those of you that praise SS so much. You should place an order for
another kit, pay in full up front and then we will see what you have to say
about SS's integrity, honesty and communications in a couple of years when
you still don't have your parts.
Bruce - 2 1/2 years & still waiting for engine
Message 5
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
Well as it seems there are some concerns at Skystar?
Can anyone verify this ?
The thread has gone quiet and get accused of stirring the pot.
Skystar wake up and tell the world Including your Customers that you are
working it all out.
Skystar you havea great plane, now let's hear it from you good folks.
Obviously something is not being told to all.
Shorty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger McConnell" <rdmac@swbell.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Skystar
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Roger McConnell" <rdmac@swbell.net>
>
> Bruce,
> I'm about 2 to 3 months behind you in the same situation. You and
I are
> among 19 other people that SS has said were caught in a certain financial
> situation. They say they are actively involved in trying to resolve this
> situation. This is the story I have been told anyway. What has Frank told
> you? E-mail me off list if you like.
> Roger Mac - 2 years 3 month and counting
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bruce
> Hoisington
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Skystar
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Hoisington"
> <bruceh@bendbroadband.com>
>
> To those of you that praise SS so much. You should place an order for
> another kit, pay in full up front and then we will see what you have to
say
> about SS's integrity, honesty and communications in a couple of years when
> you still don't have your parts.
>
> Bruce - 2 1/2 years & still waiting for engine
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Michel 's X-plane Kitfox |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
Michel Thanks again, I'll order X-Plane in a few weeks when the latest
release is out. I'll let you know when I receive it and ask for your latest
Kitfox at that time. You sure do keep busy.
Robert
Message 7
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski <szakreski@shaw.ca>
I'm not sure what you guys expect. The past few years have been difficult
times for the entire aviation industry. For a company to announce to the
world that they are in financial trouble is the final kiss of death. They
have quietly admitted they have issues they are working on. They have
clearly pruned down the company staff to minimize overhead (which is what
they should be doing). They are continuing to manufacture kits, albeit
slowly, which is good news because it means they have revenue.
When a company is stressed, you can be sure they have problems getting
suppliers to ship their products, such as engines. It is not hard to see
what is happening.
With the Sport Pilot Issues being in place, we have some reason to hope and
be optimistic. There is no indication that they are not doing all they can
to meet commitments. What a company wants to do in these cases is not the
issue, it is a matter of what they can do. For those that have placed
deposits with Skystar, lets again hope for the best. We all want Skystar to
survive. Lets give Skystar support and find them customers, not sabotage
any hope that they have to recover.
Steve Z
Calgary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of shortnaked
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Skystar
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
Well as it seems there are some concerns at Skystar?
Can anyone verify this ?
The thread has gone quiet and get accused of stirring the pot.
Skystar wake up and tell the world Including your Customers that you are
working it all out.
Skystar you havea great plane, now let's hear it from you good folks.
Obviously something is not being told to all.
Shorty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger McConnell" <rdmac@swbell.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Skystar
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Roger McConnell" <rdmac@swbell.net>
>
> Bruce,
> I'm about 2 to 3 months behind you in the same situation. You and
I are
> among 19 other people that SS has said were caught in a certain financial
> situation. They say they are actively involved in trying to resolve this
> situation. This is the story I have been told anyway. What has Frank told
> you? E-mail me off list if you like.
> Roger Mac - 2 years 3 month and counting
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bruce
> Hoisington
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Skystar
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Hoisington"
> <bruceh@bendbroadband.com>
>
> To those of you that praise SS so much. You should place an order for
> another kit, pay in full up front and then we will see what you have to
say
> about SS's integrity, honesty and communications in a couple of years when
> you still don't have your parts.
>
> Bruce - 2 1/2 years & still waiting for engine
>
>
Message 8
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
I hope you aren't writing about me. I stated that I felt lucky. Now all
this being written. I want to release a company that has been superior in
it's quality and customer service and that's the other airplane that I am
building. The RV7 from Vans. Why did I pick this airplane, mainly because
of what I mentioned. After almost getting royally screwed with the Europe,
I decided that if I'm going to build an aircraft it will be from a company
that will be there for years to come.
Besides, going 200+ does have it's draw. Have a nice day.
steve a
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bruce
Hoisington
Subject: Kitfox-List: Skystar
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Hoisington"
<bruceh@bendbroadband.com>
To those of you that praise SS so much. You should place an order for
another kit, pay in full up front and then we will see what you have to say
about SS's integrity, honesty and communications in a couple of years when
you still don't have your parts.
Bruce - 2 1/2 years & still waiting for engine
Message 9
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
Steve ,
Well said !!
Let's hope with 103 regs that will help them secure more business and
possibly financing if so needed.
I think if anyone is concerned about Skystar it should be the Skystar
management and issue a PR stating that all is well.
Also since there does seem to be quite a few posters here that are saying
the same thing , orders delayed and even up to several years in some cases a
forum like this is necessary for all to share their thoughts. Just not the
ones saying well it was all fine 12 years ago etc etc.
Today is today and individuals have placed orders and some have paid in full
up front and this to some should casue some concerns.
I have no idea the financial condition of Skystar but they does seems to be
some cloud of doubt in the air these days.
Shorty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Zakreski" <szakreski@shaw.ca>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Skystar
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski <szakreski@shaw.ca>
>
> I'm not sure what you guys expect. The past few years have been difficult
> times for the entire aviation industry. For a company to announce to the
> world that they are in financial trouble is the final kiss of death. They
> have quietly admitted they have issues they are working on. They have
> clearly pruned down the company staff to minimize overhead (which is what
> they should be doing). They are continuing to manufacture kits, albeit
> slowly, which is good news because it means they have revenue.
>
> When a company is stressed, you can be sure they have problems getting
> suppliers to ship their products, such as engines. It is not hard to see
> what is happening.
>
> With the Sport Pilot Issues being in place, we have some reason to hope
and
> be optimistic. There is no indication that they are not doing all they
can
> to meet commitments. What a company wants to do in these cases is not the
> issue, it is a matter of what they can do. For those that have placed
> deposits with Skystar, lets again hope for the best. We all want Skystar
to
> survive. Lets give Skystar support and find them customers, not sabotage
> any hope that they have to recover.
>
> Steve Z
> Calgary
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of shortnaked
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Skystar
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
>
> Well as it seems there are some concerns at Skystar?
>
> Can anyone verify this ?
>
> The thread has gone quiet and get accused of stirring the pot.
>
> Skystar wake up and tell the world Including your Customers that you are
> working it all out.
>
> Skystar you havea great plane, now let's hear it from you good folks.
>
> Obviously something is not being told to all.
>
>
> Shorty
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger McConnell" <rdmac@swbell.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Skystar
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Roger McConnell" <rdmac@swbell.net>
> >
> > Bruce,
> > I'm about 2 to 3 months behind you in the same situation. You
and
> I are
> > among 19 other people that SS has said were caught in a certain
financial
> > situation. They say they are actively involved in trying to resolve this
> > situation. This is the story I have been told anyway. What has Frank
told
> > you? E-mail me off list if you like.
> > Roger Mac - 2 years 3 month and counting
> > DO NOT ARCHIVE
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bruce
> > Hoisington
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Kitfox-List: Skystar
> >
> >
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Hoisington"
> > <bruceh@bendbroadband.com>
> >
> > To those of you that praise SS so much. You should place an order for
> > another kit, pay in full up front and then we will see what you have to
> say
> > about SS's integrity, honesty and communications in a couple of years
when
> > you still don't have your parts.
> >
> > Bruce - 2 1/2 years & still waiting for engine
> >
> >
>
>
Message 10
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: KITFOXPILOT@att.net
I have been reading all the post about Skystar, and the fuss is way out of line!!
I have made plenty of orders from skystar including an updated engine mount
and exhaust system with no delay on my orders.I'm sure those of you that are
complaining may have some other issues with Skystar that you may have forgot
to shair with the list!!!
Ray
<!-- BEGIN WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
<!-- WEBMAIL STATIONERY noneset -->
I have been reading all the post about Skystar, and the fuss is way out of line!!
I have made plenty of orders from skystar including an updated engine mount
and exhaust system with no delay on my orders.I'm sure those of you that are
complainingmay have some other issues with Skystar that you may have forgot to
shair with the list!!!
Ray
<!-- END WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
Message 11
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: EMAproducts@aol.com
Time: 11:39:05 AM PST US
From: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine ram air intake
**********
Mooney had an Excellent Ram Air Door on the "Super 21 models in the '60's I
do not remember the exact gain but seemed like about an inch of MP at cruise,
the old mind is losing some of the important stuff :-)
Find a Super 21, easily identified by the small round hold under 2" in dia in
cowl below the propeller and above normal airfilter.
The manuals gave a cruise with and without the ram air door open if I recall
correctly. You could probably e-mail Mooney for the exact gains, I recall it
was considerable.
However the speed of the KF will definately cut that down.
Listed are some typical "Pitot tube" impact pressures
50 mph = .0444 PSI Yes that is correct less than .05 PSI!
100 mph = .178 PSI
160 mph = .460 PSI
260 mph = 1.24 PSI
As you can see it may feel like a lot blowing on your hand out the window,
but actually a very small impact pressure.
Hope this helps those working on the ram air intakes.
May All have a Merry Christmas and Happy Holiday Season
Elbie Mendenhall
EM Aviation
Message 12
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
Point been made
I love Kitfoxes and Avids and the clones of course :)
Skystar, if concerend will address these issues I am a sure.
Merry Christmas All,
Shorty
Message 13
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| Subject: | No Gratuitous Skystar Bashing Please. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
The past few days have seen lots of messages about Skystar and NSI. As the
list janitor (NOT MODERATOR) I want to encourage all to only post
experiences with our vendors that you personally have, good or bad. This
list is to educate us all with real life experiences and wisdom from the
wide range of members we have.
"Piling on" after a negative post does not help anyone, so please refrain
from that. I am sure that Skystar staff are working hard to make sure the
company stays afloat, and I know that they are all very good and honest
people who are doing their best.
When you have an experience either good or bad you want to share, you are
encouraged to do so. However, please do not reply to those posts with more
gratuitous negativity. This is the holiday season. Be upbeat, be honest but
courteous.
Thank you, and Happy Holidays everyone.
Don Pearsall
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Model KF Simulator? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ted Palamarek" <temco@telusplanet.net>
Michel
I looked at the X-plane site and could not find your
aircraft simulator. Could you please let me know how to get
to it. Merry Xmas
Thanks
Ted Palamarek
Edmonton
DO NOT ARCHIVE
<<<<SNIP>>>>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Model KF V Simulator?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe
<michel@online.no>
"Harris, Robert" wrote:
> Michel, I saw your plane on X-plane and really like it.
Thanks for making
> it. I have MSN flight simulator but I'm going to buy
> fly your plane.
Message 15
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
Scott,
I urge you to buy your engine from Skystar.
About a year ago I bought my 912S from them. I got it from them for two
main reasons. First, I wanted to support them and I didn't find any real
increased cost to getting it from them. Second, they did mount the engine
ring on the engine and a few other things that sped up installation.
I just told Dave I wanted the 912s and he told me he would contact me when
there was one available from the factory. He told me not to send the money
until he knew an engine was available. A few weeks later he called to tell
me that an engine was available. I then sent him the money, and a few weeks
later had the engine.
My only regret is that I didn't get the oil cooler at the same time. I am
installing it soon.
Randy - Series 5/7 912S Power Fin
.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kitfoxpilot
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Skystar
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxpilot" <kitfoxpilot@comcast.net>
In January I will be at two years. All I have left is my engine mount and
exhaust. I'm glad I didn't order the engine when I bought my kit. I think I
will play it safe with the engine and order it from a Rotax dealer. Although
it looks like I may have to fab my own engine mount and exhaust system.
And to think, I bought the quick build kit.
Scott Miller
Series 7 Sport
Seattle
Message 16
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| Subject: | More Vortex Generators |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
Check out: http://thirdshift.com/jack/firefly/firefly19a.html
I hope I didn't get this from the list.... I don't think so. (Apologies if
you have seen this before.)
I plan to use a little different dimensions, but this manufacturing
technique looks good.
Randy
.
Message 17
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| Subject: | More Vortex Generators |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Randy,
Give me a shout before you go to that length... Off-list
Blue Skies
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
I plan to use a little different dimensions, but this manufacturing
technique looks good.
Randy
Message 18
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Roger McConnell" <rdmac@swbell.net>
Randy,
Thank you for sharing your experience. That's an amazing story. Hearing
that really gives me hope I will some day receive my engine. I would just
like someone to explain to me why some customers wait only a few weeks for
an engine while others have to wait 2 to 2 1/2 years.
Roger Mac
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Randy
Daughenbaugh
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Skystar
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh"
<rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
Scott,
I urge you to buy your engine from Skystar.
About a year ago I bought my 912S from them. I got it from them for two
main reasons. First, I wanted to support them and I didn't find any real
increased cost to getting it from them. Second, they did mount the engine
ring on the engine and a few other things that sped up installation.
I just told Dave I wanted the 912s and he told me he would contact me when
there was one available from the factory. He told me not to send the money
until he knew an engine was available. A few weeks later he called to tell
me that an engine was available. I then sent him the money, and a few weeks
later had the engine.
My only regret is that I didn't get the oil cooler at the same time. I am
installing it soon.
Randy - Series 5/7 912S Power Fin
.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kitfoxpilot
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Skystar
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxpilot" <kitfoxpilot@comcast.net>
In January I will be at two years. All I have left is my engine mount and
exhaust. I'm glad I didn't order the engine when I bought my kit. I think I
will play it safe with the engine and order it from a Rotax dealer. Although
it looks like I may have to fab my own engine mount and exhaust system.
And to think, I bought the quick build kit.
Scott Miller
Series 7 Sport
Seattle
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Careful out there! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: EMAproducts@aol.com
To all my friends and others on the list
Please be careful out there!!
Note how many % are from maneuvering ~~buzz jobs for lack of a better term in
most cases
This is not to scare anyone, but to get the facts out. This is all general
aviation stall spin accidents including homebuilts.
Stall/Spin Accidents from NTSB data
These accidents over a 9 year period, 1995 to 2004, some are preliminary
findings
Total stall/spin accidents on report 1833
Totals may not equal 100% due to rounding
As you go over this form, note what you thought was the most dangerous phase
of flight and in reality what was the most dangerous. Note that landings and
maneuvering had nearly same number of accidents, but look at the fatal
percentage! Like most government forms these have their own definition of fatal,
serious, minor and none.
Phase of flight Number of Accidents and % of different injuries
Fatal Serious Minor None
Take off 451 33% 4% 20% 6%
Climb 61 52% 20% 16% 27%
Cruise 91 44% 14% 13% 11%
Maneuvering 294 69% 5% 6% 26%
Decent 76 72% 13% 9% 9%
Approach 201 39% 19% 19% 20%
Emergency Landing 64 28% 24% 18% 28%
Landing 269 6% 15% 13% 69%
Go-Around VFR 36 17% 8% 22% 52%
Go-Around IFR 3 100% -- -- --
Unknown 276 34% 18% 15% 31%
Total 1822 40% 12.70% 13.70% 25.40% =92%
Compiled from NTSB data by EM Aviation, LLC 9/2004
Lets not add to any of these this holiday season!!
Elbie
the old CFI
www.riteangle.com
Message 20
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
I also encourage everybody to try and support skystar. I have been very
pleased with their service. I personally plan on having the two top rated
airplanes, the rv and the kitfox. I plan on owning both and maintaining
both for a number of years in the future. If skystar is having some
troubles, I'm sure any other business during these times are. My business
hasn't sustained any problems, only because I restructured and made possible
to maintain sales equal or better(slightly) over last year. But I will say
that as a business person you never pay for something that needs to be built
100% before it is made, always a deposit, and then pay in full before it is
sent, this means the product is physically made and in the mail. If you
have to pay months ahead before it's made, my opinion, isn't going to get my
business.
steve a
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Randy
Daughenbaugh
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Skystar
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh"
<rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
Scott,
I urge you to buy your engine from Skystar.
About a year ago I bought my 912S from them. I got it from them for two
main reasons. First, I wanted to support them and I didn't find any real
increased cost to getting it from them. Second, they did mount the engine
ring on the engine and a few other things that sped up installation.
I just told Dave I wanted the 912s and he told me he would contact me when
there was one available from the factory. He told me not to send the money
until he knew an engine was available. A few weeks later he called to tell
me that an engine was available. I then sent him the money, and a few weeks
later had the engine.
My only regret is that I didn't get the oil cooler at the same time. I am
installing it soon.
Randy - Series 5/7 912S Power Fin
.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kitfoxpilot
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Skystar
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxpilot" <kitfoxpilot@comcast.net>
In January I will be at two years. All I have left is my engine mount and
exhaust. I'm glad I didn't order the engine when I bought my kit. I think I
will play it safe with the engine and order it from a Rotax dealer. Although
it looks like I may have to fab my own engine mount and exhaust system.
And to think, I bought the quick build kit.
Scott Miller
Series 7 Sport
Seattle
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Engine ram air intake |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Sorry Michel....
Aero-News won't let me cut and paste the text to you
either. (I would have given them full credit of
course.) So I can't get the text and pics to you that
way.
Basically it is as I already said. They provided a
fresh air hose from the front of the engine cooling
intake to the air filter box. When you opened the
door, the unfiltered and pressurized air goes to the
engine intake past the filter. It gives about 1/2"
mercury increase in pressure, equivelent to flying
750' lower. That is at Grumman traveler speeds.
As Elbie said in his post, Mooney uses ram air for
more power and that works well at 200 mph.
Your KF needs unrestricted air to its intake too, but
I don't know that it is worth it to add in a ram air
intake at KF speeds. That will be your decision.
Kurt S.
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Engine ram air intake |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
Hi Kurt,
Just back-, to find lot's of posting -help...
I got a link to your reference, go here:
http://www.approachaviation.com/html_pages/learning_center.html
Cheers
Torgeir.
On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 11:50:17 -0800 (PST), kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
> Sorry Michel....
>
> Aero-News won't let me cut and paste the text to you
> either. (I would have given them full credit of
> course.) So I can't get the text and pics to you that
> way.
>
> Basically it is as I already said. They provided a
> fresh air hose from the front of the engine cooling
> intake to the air filter box. When you opened the
> door, the unfiltered and pressurized air goes to the
> engine intake past the filter. It gives about 1/2"
> mercury increase in pressure, equivelent to flying
> 750' lower. That is at Grumman traveler speeds.
>
> As Elbie said in his post, Mooney uses ram air for
> more power and that works well at 200 mph.
>
> Your KF needs unrestricted air to its intake too, but
> I don't know that it is worth it to add in a ram air
> intake at KF speeds. That will be your decision.
>
> Kurt S.
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://my.yahoo.com
>
>
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Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Engine ram air intake |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Great that you found another article about it that you
can read. ANd the pictures are better too.
Merry Christmas,
Kurt S.
Do not archive.
--- Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no> wrote:
> Hi Kurt,
>
> Just back-, to find lot's of posting -help...
>
> I got a link to your reference, go here:
>
>
http://www.approachaviation.com/html_pages/learning_center.html
>
> Cheers
>
> Torgeir.
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Engine ram air intake |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
Merry christmas, Kurt and everyone else.
Here is the original text, I've forgot.
--------
Alt Air Without The Filter
Approach Aviation Development Thursday said it has received FAA STC
SA00206BO for an Alternate Air system for all Grumman AA-5 Traveler and
AA-5A Cheetahs.
The new RAM-Air Alternate Air System is designed to provide an alternate
source of induction air to the engine without the restriction of the
standard induction air filter. This system allows the pilot to bypass the
induction air filter in-flight without the reduction in available engine
power caused by resorting to carburetor heat. A cable control in the
cockpit opens/closes a valve into the airbox that supplies unfiltered,
high-pressure air from the available air in front of the forward engine
baffling.
The high-pressure location of the inlet provides a source of "Ram-Air"
which has been tested to increase manifold pressure by approximately 1/2+"
Hg. This equates to 4-5 HP more horsepower at altitudes where normally
aspirated aircraft engines typically produce 75% power or less. The system
also increases the service ceiling and effectively reduces the aircrafts
pressure altitude by about 750 feet MSL.
"The RAM-Air Alternate Air System is an outstanding and economical
performance addition to the Grumman Traveler and Cheetah." said Jeff
Simon, President of Approach Aviation Development, Inc. "Aircraft
induction filters are always a compromise of engine protection vs.
performance. This system preserves the integrity of the filter on the
ground, while allowing the pilot to take advantage of the increased power
naturally available in flight.
The RAM-Air Alternate Air System, complete with all necessary hardware,
is available at the introductory price of $750. Installation is very
straightforward with a typical install time of approximately 4-6 hours.
Torgeir.
On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 13:45:13 -0800 (PST), kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
> Great that you found another article about it that you
> can read. ANd the pictures are better too.
>
> Merry Christmas,
>
> Kurt S.
>
> Do not archive.
>
> --- Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no> wrote:
>
>> Hi Kurt,
>>
>> Just back-, to find lot's of posting -help...
>>
>> I got a link to your reference, go here:
>>
>>
> http://www.approachaviation.com/html_pages/learning_center.html
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Torgeir.
>
>
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Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Sport Aviation article |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
Hi Roger,
Thanks for notifying me.
Cheers
Torgeir.
On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 20:02:23 -0600, Roger McConnell <rdmac@swbell.net>
wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Roger McConnell" <rdmac@swbell.net>
>
> To all listers,
> We have a celebrity on our list now. I just finished reading a
> real nice
> article about four aircraft that embark on a trip to the land of the
> midnight sun. Our friend Torgeir is mention in this article. A very well
> written piece by Peter Schnieder.
> Roger Mac
> N619RM
>
> Do not Archive.
>
>
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Message 26
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| Subject: | Careful out there! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Good info Elbie. I read somewhere that the highest number of fatal accident
percentages, not just stall spin, were from buzzing and getting caught in
IMC. These are the "fatal" ones I'm talking about and I guess it makes
sense. Buzzing is generally done while watching the person who we think is
watching us and flying the airplane is secondary. I friend of mine who I
graduated from high school with was testing out his new ppl license in a
C150 and decided to buzz his parents farm while they were having a picnic
out back of the house. He pulled up too hard, stalled and spun into the
ground less than a hundred yards from where they were all sitting. Scary.
Had to be horrible for the family to watch that happen. Actually though, I
think IMC is the top dog for fatal accidents. It's almost a sure thing
unless the pilot is current.
Darrel
> To all my friends and others on the list
>
> Please be careful out there!!
> Note how many % are from maneuvering ~~buzz jobs for lack of a better term
in
> most cases
>
> This is not to scare anyone, but to get the facts out. This is all
general
> aviation stall spin accidents including homebuilts.
>
> Stall/Spin Accidents from NTSB data
> These accidents over a 9 year period, 1995 to 2004, some are preliminary
> findings
> Total stall/spin accidents on report 1833
> Totals may not equal 100% due to rounding
>
> As you go over this form, note what you thought was the most dangerous
phase
> of flight and in reality what was the most dangerous. Note that landings
and
> maneuvering had nearly same number of accidents, but look at the fatal
> percentage! Like most government forms these have their own definition of
fatal,
> serious, minor and none.
>
> Phase of flight Number of Accidents and % of different injuries
> Fatal Serious Minor
None
> Take off 451 33% 4% 20% 6%
> Climb 61 52% 20% 16% 27%
> Cruise 91 44% 14% 13% 11%
> Maneuvering 294 69% 5% 6% 26%
> Decent 76 72% 13% 9% 9%
> Approach 201 39% 19% 19% 20%
> Emergency Landing 64 28% 24% 18% 28%
> Landing 269 6% 15% 13% 69%
> Go-Around VFR 36 17% 8% 22% 52%
> Go-Around IFR 3 100% -- -- --
> Unknown 276 34% 18% 15% 31%
> Total 1822 40% 12.70% 13.70% 25.40% =92%
>
> Compiled from NTSB data by EM Aviation, LLC 9/2004
>
>
> Lets not add to any of these this holiday season!!
>
> Elbie
> the old CFI
> www.riteangle.com
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Model KF Simulator? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Ted Palamarek wrote:
> I looked at the X-plane site and could not find your
> aircraft simulator. Could you please let me know how to get
> to it. Merry Xmas
All the planes for X-Plane are not at x-plane.com but at x-plane.org, Ted.
You'll find mine in the version 7 set, under the Homebuilt registry. It's
called KitfoxMk3
Merry Christmas to you, Ted from Edmonton. I know your hometown from flying
there in ... X-Plane simulator. For three years ago, I was with an
international gang flying virtually over Canada, invited by two of our Canadian
members. All the Rocky mountains, then to Edmonton, enroute to Cold Lake.
The real Kitfox is more fun but simulation is a good second choice when one is
interested in aviation.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 28
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Mark Scott wrote:
> The two primary routes for epoxy (and many other chemicals) exposure are
> dermal (skin) and respiratory.
Thanks Mark, I'll try to be carefull. BTW, is there any way to wash away
uncured epoxy? Or do you have to throw away brushes, if you use them?
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 29
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| Subject: | Good article on Stalls / spins |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
From Transport Canada
Everybody brushed up on Spins?
:) If you can not better learn
http://lazair.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=8&t=287
Shorty <---- trying to be a diplomatic person and helpful :)
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Changing Props |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
Hi Ted,
I changed to an IVO prop approx. 17 months ago. As this setup is much a
proven combination-, a Rotax 582/532 plus B or C gearbox, besides also
proven in various Kitfoxes - no need for a test period according to the
Norwegian CAA. Just got a new "blank" propeller journal, then updated with
the new propeller data, then sent it back to the NCAA for approval and
stamp and finally installed into my model II.
As I've said before, my best investment for the Kitfox - so fare.
Cheers
Torgeir.
On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 21:17:17 -0600, Flier <flier@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Flier" <flier@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Prop change is considered a major and would likely require test flight
> time.
> DAR would specify. Without repairmans cert I believe you'll have to have
> the logs endorsed by an A&P/IA for the change. Rest of you correct me if
> I'm wrong on this...
>
> You're probably OK doing it without the formality unless you have an
> accident or plan to sell it and anyone ever looks over the logs and finds
> the equipment has been changed without the proper endorsements.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ted
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jimmie
> Blackwell
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Changing Props
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell"
> <jablackwell@ev1.net>
>
> I am preparing to change my GSC prop to an IVO ground adjustable prop.
> Some
> are advising me to just do it and not get the FAA into the matter. I
> prefer
> to follow the correct procedure, but do not know where to go, FSDO or a
> local DAR? Don't know if it matters but I do not hold a repairman's
> certificate for the airplane.
>
>
> Jimmie
> Kitfox Model IV
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel systems |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
Hi Rex,
This is a real good stuff about fuel systems, hi folks -haven't you
checked this one out - a must for all of us two strokes as well as four
strokes...
This is a true "concentrate" of what we've been talking all about.
Just added the beginning of the link..
http://www.challengers101.com/FuelSys.html
A good link Rex, thanks.
Cheers
Torgeir.
On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 20:34:03 +1030, Rex & Jan Shaw <rexjan@bigpond.com>
wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
>
> We were talking a lot a few weeks ago about fuel systems. Well have a
> look
> at this. www.challengers101.com/FuelSys.html
> There is a lot of very good reading here.
> Rex.
> rexjan@bigpond.com
>
>
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
Ted, I agree with Torgeir, I can't think of any other single accessory that
has such a dramatic effect on performance. Especially if you fly in
conditions with large variations in ambient temperature and/or fly floats
Gary Algate
Lite2/582
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Hi Ted,
I changed to an IVO prop approx. 17 months ago. As this setup is much a
proven combination-, a Rotax 582/532 plus B or C gearbox, besides also
proven in various Kitfoxes - no need for a test period according to the
Norwegian CAA. Just got a new "blank" propeller journal, then updated with
the new propeller data, then sent it back to the NCAA for approval and
stamp and finally installed into my model II.
As I've said before, my best investment for the Kitfox - so fare.
Cheers
Torgeir.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Changing Props |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
Torgeir,
Care to share your performance Data with the new Ivo prop.
What Prop are you changing form ?
Shorty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Torgeir Mortensen" <torgemor@online.no>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Changing Props
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
>
> Hi Ted,
>
>
> I changed to an IVO prop approx. 17 months ago. As this setup is much a
> proven combination-, a Rotax 582/532 plus B or C gearbox, besides also
> proven in various Kitfoxes - no need for a test period according to the
> Norwegian CAA. Just got a new "blank" propeller journal, then updated with
> the new propeller data, then sent it back to the NCAA for approval and
> stamp and finally installed into my model II.
>
> As I've said before, my best investment for the Kitfox - so fare.
>
> Cheers
>
>
Message 34
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 12/21/04 2:36:09 PM Pacific Standard Time,
michel@online.no writes:
<<
Thanks Mark, I'll try to be carefull. BTW, is there any way to wash away
uncured epoxy? Or do you have to throw away brushes, if you use them?
Cheers,
Michel >>
Michel,
I use the cheap brushes and trash them. I try to plan the work where I
have enough to do with one full batch of epoxy.
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Changing Props |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
Torgeir:
Furthermore, do you have the ground-adjustable or the in-flight adjustable
Ivo?
Clem Nichols
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Changing Props
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
>
> Torgeir,
>
> Care to share your performance Data with the new Ivo prop.
>
> What Prop are you changing form ?
>
> Shorty
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Torgeir Mortensen" <torgemor@online.no>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Changing Props
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
>>
>> Hi Ted,
>>
>>
>> I changed to an IVO prop approx. 17 months ago. As this setup is much a
>> proven combination-, a Rotax 582/532 plus B or C gearbox, besides also
>> proven in various Kitfoxes - no need for a test period according to the
>> Norwegian CAA. Just got a new "blank" propeller journal, then updated
>> with
>> the new propeller data, then sent it back to the NCAA for approval and
>> stamp and finally installed into my model II.
>>
>> As I've said before, my best investment for the Kitfox - so fare.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.2 - Release Date: 12/20/2004
>
>
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Changing Props |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
Hi Clem,
I have the ground adjustable, -and the later model blades, I.E. this
blades is the same as used for the electric in flight adjustment type.
I've got the UL type, due to the B gear box (1:2,58) ratio.
It's easy to upgrade to the in-flight adj. type, maybe later.
Cheers
Torgeir.
On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 18:38:25 -0600, Clem Nichols <cnichols@scrtc.com>
wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
>
> Torgeir:
>
> Furthermore, do you have the ground-adjustable or the in-flight
> adjustable
> Ivo?
>
> Clem Nichols
> Do Not Archive
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Changing Props
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
>>
>> Torgeir,
>>
>> Care to share your performance Data with the new Ivo prop.
>>
>> What Prop are you changing form ?
>>
>> Shorty
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Torgeir Mortensen" <torgemor@online.no>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Changing Props
>>
>>
>>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen
>>> <torgemor@online.no>
>>>
>>> Hi Ted,
>>>
>>>
>>> I changed to an IVO prop approx. 17 months ago. As this setup is much a
>>> proven combination-, a Rotax 582/532 plus B or C gearbox, besides also
>>> proven in various Kitfoxes - no need for a test period according to the
>>> Norwegian CAA. Just got a new "blank" propeller journal, then updated
>>> with
>>> the new propeller data, then sent it back to the NCAA for approval and
>>> stamp and finally installed into my model II.
>>>
>>> As I've said before, my best investment for the Kitfox - so fare.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>> Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.2 - Release Date: 12/20/2004
>>
>>
>
>
--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Changing Props |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
Torgier,
What are your Performance specs?
Climb?
Static rpm
Cruise
Thanks in Advance
----- Original Message -----
From: "Torgeir Mortensen" <torgemor@online.no>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Changing Props
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
>
> Hi Clem,
>
>
> I have the ground adjustable, -and the later model blades, I.E. this
> blades is the same as used for the electric in flight adjustment type.
> I've got the UL type, due to the B gear box (1:2,58) ratio.
>
> It's easy to upgrade to the in-flight adj. type, maybe later.
>
> Cheers
>
> Torgeir.
>
>
> On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 18:38:25 -0600, Clem Nichols <cnichols@scrtc.com>
> wrote:
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
> >
> > Torgeir:
> >
> > Furthermore, do you have the ground-adjustable or the in-flight
> > adjustable
> > Ivo?
> >
> > Clem Nichols
> > Do Not Archive
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
> > To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Changing Props
> >
> >
> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
> >>
> >> Torgeir,
> >>
> >> Care to share your performance Data with the new Ivo prop.
> >>
> >> What Prop are you changing form ?
> >>
> >> Shorty
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Torgeir Mortensen" <torgemor@online.no>
> >> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> >> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Changing Props
> >>
> >>
> >>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen
> >>> <torgemor@online.no>
> >>>
> >>> Hi Ted,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I changed to an IVO prop approx. 17 months ago. As this setup is much
a
> >>> proven combination-, a Rotax 582/532 plus B or C gearbox, besides also
> >>> proven in various Kitfoxes - no need for a test period according to
the
> >>> Norwegian CAA. Just got a new "blank" propeller journal, then updated
> >>> with
> >>> the new propeller data, then sent it back to the NCAA for approval and
> >>> stamp and finally installed into my model II.
> >>>
> >>> As I've said before, my best investment for the Kitfox - so fare.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> >> Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.2 - Release Date: 12/20/2004
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
>
>
Message 38
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|
| Subject: | Re: Changing Props |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
Hi Shorty,
I swapped from a GSC 66" to an IVO UL 366Q. I stayed at 66" dia. just to
stay below the max. mass moment for the B gear box.
Some of my reading before and after the propeller change:
GSC: MTW 811 lbs, QNH 1020 and 2000' at 20 deg. C.
5200 RPM 59 miles IAS
5500 RPM 63.5 miles IAS
6000 RPM 72 miles IAS
IVO: MTW 772 lbs, QNH 1012 and 1000' at 15 deg. C.
5000 RPM 66 miles IAS
5200 RPM 70 miles IAS
6400 RPM 86 miles IAS
All of the IAS is corrected for instrument error, also controlled with GPS.
Both propellers was set to 6200 RPM static on ground.
No wheel pants, no rad fairing and no tail "lift struts" fairing.
Torgeir.
On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 18:36:01 -0500, shortnaked <shortnaked@golden.net>
wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
>
> Torgeir,
>
> Care to share your performance Data with the new Ivo prop.
>
> What Prop are you changing form ?
>
> Shorty
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Torgeir Mortensen" <torgemor@online.no>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Changing Props
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen
>> <torgemor@online.no>
>>
>> Hi Ted,
>>
>>
>> I changed to an IVO prop approx. 17 months ago. As this setup is much a
>> proven combination-, a Rotax 582/532 plus B or C gearbox, besides also
>> proven in various Kitfoxes - no need for a test period according to the
>> Norwegian CAA. Just got a new "blank" propeller journal, then updated
>> with
>> the new propeller data, then sent it back to the NCAA for approval and
>> stamp and finally installed into my model II.
>>
>> As I've said before, my best investment for the Kitfox - so fare.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>>
>
>
--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
Message 39
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|
| Subject: | Re: Changing Props |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
For the IVO, here's the number:
Havent done a "very" accurate climb measuring, but for the climb at TW
750 lbs., from sea level is: 1200' /min. At max gross MTW 950 lbs. "just"
under 800'/min.
This is at standard temp and pressure.
I'm going to do some more test when my "logger" is fine tuned. :)
The old GSC at MTW 950 lbs. (under same condition) gave slightly more than
400'/min.
Hope this will do.
Cheers
Torgeir.
On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 20:28:43 -0500, shortnaked <shortnaked@golden.net>
wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
>
> Torgier,
>
>
> What are your Performance specs?
>
> Climb?
>
> Static rpm
>
> Cruise
>
>
> Thanks in Advance
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Torgeir Mortensen" <torgemor@online.no>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Changing Props
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen
>> <torgemor@online.no>
>>
>> Hi Clem,
>>
>>
>> I have the ground adjustable, -and the later model blades, I.E. this
>> blades is the same as used for the electric in flight adjustment type.
>> I've got the UL type, due to the B gear box (1:2,58) ratio.
>>
>> It's easy to upgrade to the in-flight adj. type, maybe later.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Torgeir.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 18:38:25 -0600, Clem Nichols <cnichols@scrtc.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
>> >
>> > Torgeir:
>> >
>> > Furthermore, do you have the ground-adjustable or the in-flight
>> > adjustable
>> > Ivo?
>> >
>> > Clem Nichols
>> > Do Not Archive
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
>> > To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Changing Props
>> >
>> >
>> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked"
>> <shortnaked@golden.net>
>> >>
>> >> Torgeir,
>> >>
>> >> Care to share your performance Data with the new Ivo prop.
>> >>
>> >> What Prop are you changing form ?
>> >>
>> >> Shorty
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "Torgeir Mortensen" <torgemor@online.no>
>> >> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> >> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Changing Props
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen
>> >>> <torgemor@online.no>
>> >>>
>> >>> Hi Ted,
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> I changed to an IVO prop approx. 17 months ago. As this setup is
>> much
> a
>> >>> proven combination-, a Rotax 582/532 plus B or C gearbox, besides
>> also
>> >>> proven in various Kitfoxes - no need for a test period according to
> the
>> >>> Norwegian CAA. Just got a new "blank" propeller journal, then
>> updated
>> >>> with
>> >>> the new propeller data, then sent it back to the NCAA for approval
>> and
>> >>> stamp and finally installed into my model II.
>> >>>
>> >>> As I've said before, my best investment for the Kitfox - so fare.
>> >>>
>> >>> Cheers
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>> >> Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.2 - Release Date: 12/20/2004
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
>>
>>
>
>
--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
Message 40
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|
| Subject: | Re: Changing Props |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
Torgier,
Those are pretty drastic numbers.
here is a post i made back in Nov 2004
Now these are form my strip which is ELEV. 950' ASL
And airspeed is IAS only
Hope this helps, 68 " GSC @ 15deg is about 42 inch pitch and wroks
Excellently.
One more point is i have lift strut and gear fairings but No wheel pants.
and mine a C box 3 : 1
Shorty
a model IV 1050 - drooptip
> weights L 230 R 233 tail 63 with 6 gals of fuel and 2 litres of
oil
> 582 68 " GSC i re- pitched to 15 D and gettting static 6200 rpm
> (on climb you can get 6800 rpm if you not hanging it on the prop)
> EGT in climb 1000 t o 1100 F coolant 160 to 170 F
> Pilot 220 lbs
> temp about 40 F climb solo 1300 fpm
> Passenger 160 added
> Climb 1000 + fpm
>
> crusie 6000 rpm 95 mph coolant 160
> crusie 5000 rpm 74 mph.
>
> take off solo wind 0 - 5 mph 90d to runway 150 to 160 feet
> dual " " "
> 340 to 360 feet
>
> TO over 50 foot obstacle solo 500 feet
>
> both with zero flaps.
>
> how do these number co relate to others ?
>
> Hope this helps you all .
>
>
> Shorty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Torgeir Mortensen" <torgemor@online.no>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Changing Props
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
>
> Hi Shorty,
>
> I swapped from a GSC 66" to an IVO UL 366Q. I stayed at 66" dia. just to
> stay below the max. mass moment for the B gear box.
>
> Some of my reading before and after the propeller change:
>
> GSC: MTW 811 lbs, QNH 1020 and 2000' at 20 deg. C.
>
> 5200 RPM 59 miles IAS
> 5500 RPM 63.5 miles IAS
> 6000 RPM 72 miles IAS
>
> IVO: MTW 772 lbs, QNH 1012 and 1000' at 15 deg. C.
>
> 5000 RPM 66 miles IAS
> 5200 RPM 70 miles IAS
> 6400 RPM 86 miles IAS
>
> All of the IAS is corrected for instrument error, also controlled with
GPS.
>
>
> Both propellers was set to 6200 RPM static on ground.
>
> No wheel pants, no rad fairing and no tail "lift struts" fairing.
>
>
> Torgeir.
>
>
> On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 18:36:01 -0500, shortnaked <shortnaked@golden.net>
> wrote:
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
> >
> > Torgeir,
> >
> > Care to share your performance Data with the new Ivo prop.
> >
> > What Prop are you changing form ?
> >
> > Shorty
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Torgeir Mortensen" <torgemor@online.no>
> > To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Changing Props
> >
> >
> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen
> >> <torgemor@online.no>
> >>
> >> Hi Ted,
> >>
> >>
> >> I changed to an IVO prop approx. 17 months ago. As this setup is much a
> >> proven combination-, a Rotax 582/532 plus B or C gearbox, besides also
> >> proven in various Kitfoxes - no need for a test period according to the
> >> Norwegian CAA. Just got a new "blank" propeller journal, then updated
> >> with
> >> the new propeller data, then sent it back to the NCAA for approval and
> >> stamp and finally installed into my model II.
> >>
> >> As I've said before, my best investment for the Kitfox - so fare.
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
>
>
Message 41
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dcecil3@aol.com
Steve all I can offer as to Skystar's customer preformance is the dealings
I've had with them so far. with an aircraft company you have 2 kinds of
customers those that have the plane and need parts and those that want to buy the
plane
both are just as important.as we all know word of mouth is the very best
salesman there is.So with that in mind and the fact that at todays prices each
customer has an outlay of between $15,000 and 40,000 depending on the model of
Kitfox he/she owns a little standard busniess practice goes a long way . I was
not trashing Skystar only give a factual account of my dealings with them .I
see some people had only good to say, mine were bad. sometimes a company gets
complacent about what it should be focused on .
and with the sport pilot thing going crazy and the accident you mentioned
and not to forget the thing with Ed Downs,I guess a company could lose focus
of the reason they are in business but the bottom line is the CUSTOMER.
Quality control both in production and in the shipping of the product and from
what
I've seen Skystar needs to refocus on both and Just maybe them monitoring this
site is the kick in the seat of the pants that will jump start them on the
right track
so I was'ent trashing , just shaking them a little so'd they'd wake up!
David Cecil
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