Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:30 AM - Re: West Epoxy (scottm)
2. 05:15 AM - Re: Skystar (bob)
3. 05:19 AM - Re: No Gratuitous Skystar Bashing Please. (bob)
4. 05:23 AM - Re: SKYSTAR FUSS!! (bob)
5. 05:24 AM - Re: skystar (bob)
6. 06:12 AM - Re: Skystar (DPREMGOOD@aol.com)
7. 06:16 AM - Re: Skystar (DPREMGOOD@aol.com)
8. 06:24 AM - Spare Space (Steve Magdic)
9. 06:33 AM - Re: Spare Space (Harris, Robert)
10. 06:39 AM - Re: Spare Space (Steve Magdic)
11. 07:18 AM - Re: Skystar (Lowell Fitt)
12. 07:42 AM - Re: Skystar (customtrans@qwest.net)
13. 07:50 AM - Re: Spare Space (roncarolnikko@webtv.net (Ron Schick))
14. 07:54 AM - Re: No Gratuitous Skystar Bashing Please. (Fox5flyer)
15. 10:32 AM - Re: SV: Engine ram air intake (Michel Verheughe)
16. 10:38 AM - Re: West Epoxy (Michel Verheughe)
17. 10:55 AM - IVO Hub (Tommy Dubroc)
18. 01:10 PM - Re: IVO Hub (Aerobatics@aol.com)
19. 01:33 PM - Re: IVO Hub (jdmcbean)
20. 02:39 PM - Re: IVO Hub (shortnaked)
21. 03:09 PM - Re: IVO Hub (Aerobatics@aol.com)
22. 03:10 PM - Re: IVO Hub (Aerobatics@aol.com)
23. 03:55 PM - Re: No Gratuitous Skystar Bashing Please. (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
24. 04:07 PM - Re: No Gratuitous Skystar Bashing Please. (shortnaked)
25. 04:10 PM - Re: IVO Hub (jdmcbean)
26. 05:06 PM - Kitfox order update (Bob & Margaret Olson)
27. 05:24 PM - Re: Sight glass tubing, fuel (Glenn Horne)
28. 05:51 PM - Re: IVO Hub (Clifford Begnaud)
29. 06:03 PM - Re: Sight glass tubing, fuel (Aerobatics@aol.com)
30. 06:55 PM - Re: IVO Hub (shortnaked)
31. 07:23 PM - Re: SKYSTAR FUSS!! (KITFOXPILOT@att.net)
32. 08:09 PM - Re: Kitfox order update (Don Pearsall)
33. 08:52 PM - Re: Sight glass tubing, fuel (jdmcbean)
34. 09:36 PM - Skystar Analysis ()
35. 09:46 PM - Re: Sight glass tubing, fuel (Grant Fluent)
36. 09:54 PM - Re: Skystar Analysis (Don Pearsall)
37. 10:38 PM - Re: Careful out there (EMAproducts@aol.com)
38. 11:02 PM - Re: Another article on AOA (EMAproducts@aol.com)
39. 11:35 PM - Skis. WAS: No Gratuitous Skystar Bashing Please. (Michel Verheughe)
Message 1
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "scottm" <scottm@dol.net>
Acetone always works pretty well, and is usually easy to
get. Try some of your spouse's nail polish remover if you
want to be sure that it works. I have not tried it, but a
lot of people on the Vision builder's list also use vinegar
for cleaning up squeegees, tools, etc. after doing layups.
They claim it works just as well, but it less nasty to the
body.
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe
> <michel@online.no>
> Mark Scott wrote:
> > The two primary routes for epoxy (and many other
> > chemicals) exposure are dermal (skin) and respiratory.
>
> Thanks Mark, I'll try to be carefull. BTW, is there any
> way to wash away uncured epoxy? Or do you have to throw
> away brushes, if you use them?
> Cheers,
> Michel
Message 2
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "bob" <grumps@megalink.net>
STEVE YOU ARE IN MY OPPINION WAY OUT OF LINE HOW MUCH OF MONEY DO THEY HAVE
FOR YEARS WITHOUT YOU GETTING ANY PARTS WORTH THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS I WAS IN
BUSNESS ALL MY LIFE AND WAS VERY SUCESSFUL BUT TO MY MANY CUSTOMERS I TOLD
THE TRUTH NO LIES UPON LIES LIKE SS FRANK AND THE REST. THE STATE ATTORNEY
GENERAL SHOULD PUT THEM OUT OF BUSNESS AND PUT AN END TO THE SORROW THEY
ARE CAUSING > BOB (GRUMPS)
----- Original Message -----
From: <customtrans@qwest.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Skystar
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
>
> I also encourage everybody to try and support skystar. I have been very
> pleased with their service. I personally plan on having the two top rated
> airplanes, the rv and the kitfox. I plan on owning both and maintaining
> both for a number of years in the future. If skystar is having some
> troubles, I'm sure any other business during these times are. My business
> hasn't sustained any problems, only because I restructured and made
> possible
> to maintain sales equal or better(slightly) over last year. But I will
> say
> that as a business person you never pay for something that needs to be
> built
> 100% before it is made, always a deposit, and then pay in full before it
> is
> sent, this means the product is physically made and in the mail. If you
> have to pay months ahead before it's made, my opinion, isn't going to get
> my
> business.
>
> steve a
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Randy
> Daughenbaugh
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Skystar
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh"
> <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
>
> Scott,
> I urge you to buy your engine from Skystar.
>
> About a year ago I bought my 912S from them. I got it from them for two
> main reasons. First, I wanted to support them and I didn't find any real
> increased cost to getting it from them. Second, they did mount the engine
> ring on the engine and a few other things that sped up installation.
>
> I just told Dave I wanted the 912s and he told me he would contact me when
> there was one available from the factory. He told me not to send the
> money
> until he knew an engine was available. A few weeks later he called to
> tell
> me that an engine was available. I then sent him the money, and a few
> weeks
> later had the engine.
>
> My only regret is that I didn't get the oil cooler at the same time. I am
> installing it soon.
>
> Randy - Series 5/7 912S Power Fin
>
> .
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kitfoxpilot
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Skystar
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxpilot" <kitfoxpilot@comcast.net>
>
> In January I will be at two years. All I have left is my engine mount and
> exhaust. I'm glad I didn't order the engine when I bought my kit. I think
> I
> will play it safe with the engine and order it from a Rotax dealer.
> Although
> it looks like I may have to fab my own engine mount and exhaust system.
>
> And to think, I bought the quick build kit.
>
> Scott Miller
> Series 7 Sport
> Seattle
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: No Gratuitous Skystar Bashing Please. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "bob" <grumps@megalink.net>
DON you might feel diffrent if SS had thousands of dollars and not comming
across with anything you ordered all you get is lies more lies FRANK AND HIS
CRONIES SHOULD BE THROWN IN JAIL!!!!!!!!!! BOB (GRUMPS)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: No Gratuitous Skystar Bashing Please.
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall"
> <donpearsall@comcast.net>
>
> The past few days have seen lots of messages about Skystar and NSI. As the
> list janitor (NOT MODERATOR) I want to encourage all to only post
> experiences with our vendors that you personally have, good or bad. This
> list is to educate us all with real life experiences and wisdom from the
> wide range of members we have.
>
> "Piling on" after a negative post does not help anyone, so please refrain
> from that. I am sure that Skystar staff are working hard to make sure the
> company stays afloat, and I know that they are all very good and honest
> people who are doing their best.
>
> When you have an experience either good or bad you want to share, you are
> encouraged to do so. However, please do not reply to those posts with more
> gratuitous negativity. This is the holiday season. Be upbeat, be honest
> but
> courteous.
>
> Thank you, and Happy Holidays everyone.
>
>
> Don Pearsall
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: SKYSTAR FUSS!! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "bob" <grumps@megalink.net>
YUP RAY WHY DON"T YOU SEND THEM THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS LIKE SOME OF US AND
RECIEVE NOTHING IN RETURN FOR YEARS IT MIGHT MAKE YOU CHANGE YOUR TUNE!!!!!
THEY ARE NOTHING BUT A BUNCH OF LIERS AND CROOKS AND FRANK IS THE BOSS I
WOULD LIKE TO SEE THEM ROT IN JAIL FOR A WHILE BOB (GRUMPS)
----- Original Message -----
From: <KITFOXPILOT@att.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: SKYSTAR FUSS!!
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: KITFOXPILOT@att.net
>
> I have been reading all the post about Skystar, and the fuss is way out of
> line!! I have made plenty of orders from skystar including an updated
> engine mount and exhaust system with no delay on my orders.I'm sure those
> of you that are complaining may have some other issues with Skystar that
> you may have forgot to shair with the list!!!
>
> Ray
>
> <!-- BEGIN WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
>
>
> <!-- WEBMAIL STATIONERY noneset -->
> I have been reading all the post about Skystar, and the fuss is way out of
> line!! I have made plenty of orders from skystar including an updated
> engine mount and exhaust system with no delay on my orders.I'm sure those
> of you that are complainingmay have some other issues with Skystar that
> you may have forgot to shair with the list!!!
>
> Ray
> <!-- END WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
>
>
>
Message 5
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "bob" <grumps@megalink.net>
DITTO DITTO DITTO BOB( GRUMPS)
----- Original Message -----
From: <Dcecil3@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: skystar
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dcecil3@aol.com
>
> Steve all I can offer as to Skystar's customer preformance is the
> dealings
> I've had with them so far. with an aircraft company you have 2 kinds of
> customers those that have the plane and need parts and those that want to
> buy the
> plane
> both are just as important.as we all know word of mouth is the very best
> salesman there is.So with that in mind and the fact that at todays prices
> each
> customer has an outlay of between $15,000 and 40,000 depending on the
> model of
> Kitfox he/she owns a little standard busniess practice goes a long way . I
> was
> not trashing Skystar only give a factual account of my dealings with them
> .I
> see some people had only good to say, mine were bad. sometimes a company
> gets
> complacent about what it should be focused on .
> and with the sport pilot thing going crazy and the accident you
> mentioned
> and not to forget the thing with Ed Downs,I guess a company could lose
> focus
> of the reason they are in business but the bottom line is the CUSTOMER.
> Quality control both in production and in the shipping of the product and
> from what
> I've seen Skystar needs to refocus on both and Just maybe them monitoring
> this
> site is the kick in the seat of the pants that will jump start them on the
> right track
> so I was'ent trashing , just shaking them a little so'd they'd wake up!
> David Cecil
>
>
>
Message 6
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: DPREMGOOD@aol.com
I bought my Classic IV one component at a time from 1995 to 2001 and had no
problems whatsoever. Their service was great.
Doug Remoundos
Montreal, Canada
Message 7
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: DPREMGOOD@aol.com
Bruce,
If you would like to buy my model IV, I will gladly order a Model 7 From
Skystar.
Doug Remoundos
Message 8
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Magdic" <steve.magdic@1psg.com>
Anyone out there have a cargo pod they do not use and would consider selling? I
definitely have a use for one and am seeking an older model that tucks up under
the
fuselage. I would be interested in the "bomb" type as well. Please let me know
what
you have.
Thanks and HAPPY HOLIDAYS!
Steve Magdic
Wisconsin
Model 3 - 912
do not archive
Message 9
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
Call Pete at 619-992-6708. He had a real nice one like you were looking for
a few weeks ago.
Robert
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Magdic
Subject: Kitfox-List: Spare Space
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Magdic" <steve.magdic@1psg.com>
Anyone out there have a cargo pod they do not use and would consider
selling? I
definitely have a use for one and am seeking an older model that tucks up
under the
fuselage. I would be interested in the "bomb" type as well. Please let me
know what
you have.
Thanks and HAPPY HOLIDAYS!
Steve Magdic
Wisconsin
Model 3 - 912
do not archive
Message 10
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Magdic" <steve.magdic@1psg.com>
I came in a close second on that one. Thanks anyway.
-----Original Message-----
From: Harris, Robert [mailto:Robert_Harris@intuit.com]
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Spare Space
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
Call Pete at 619-992-6708. He had a real nice one like you were looking for
a few weeks ago.
Robert
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Magdic
Subject: Kitfox-List: Spare Space
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Magdic" <steve.magdic@1psg.com>
Anyone out there have a cargo pod they do not use and would consider
selling? I
definitely have a use for one and am seeking an older model that tucks up
under the
fuselage. I would be interested in the "bomb" type as well. Please let me
know what
you have.
Thanks and HAPPY HOLIDAYS!
Steve Magdic
Wisconsin
Model 3 - 912
do not archive
Message 11
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
For some reason, I am not getting some of the posts relayed by the list. I
posted a few days ago and apologies if this is redundant as I didn't see a
copy of my post forwarded to me.
I will try to be factual as requested by Don in his post.
First, if SS goes out of business, a whole lot of people will suffer. I
have met the people at SS and they are not crooks trying to fleece who they
can for as long as they can. Several incidents contributed to their current
problems. Among them the hangar accident caused by an uninsured Cessna that
got away from it's operator destroying everything SS owned or had controll
of regarding completed or partially completed aircraft. Then came 9/11.
Then without ceremony, "company President" Ed Downs abruptly left the
company a day before Oshkosh opened, leaving Frank and his wife to man the
operation there alone. If one opinion is allowed in this discussion - Frank
is not the cause of the problem. He was not in charge when all this came
down. He is merely the one willing to hang around, take the heat, and try
to make things right.
This obviously doesn't relieve the pressure on those that have more than
they can afford to lose tied up in promises, but for SS to suddenly exit the
kit airplane business as some sort of retribution for their troubles
certainly won't help those waiting and hoping. Further it is only by
increased cash flow can SS get on top of the burdon they face. This will be
done only with increased sales and I can't see how this will happen with a
lot of negativity in a public forum.
One last thought, when I bought in 1993, I placed the order and paid "up
front". It was then that my kit was built up. My delivery date was about 3
months from payment. It was my understanding that it was customary practice
in the industry. That said, I didn't order my engine with the kit as I felt
I wanted a fresh engine when ready to do the engine install. that was 5 and
a half years after receiving my box. I may be wrong, but if anyone is
planning on a COD kit airplane, you might be in for a very long wait.
Respectfully,
Lowell
Message 12
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
I guess if I'm out of line with what I said than I am sorry and will shut
up.
stevea
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of bob
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Skystar
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "bob" <grumps@megalink.net>
STEVE YOU ARE IN MY OPPINION WAY OUT OF LINE HOW MUCH OF MONEY DO THEY HAVE
FOR YEARS WITHOUT YOU GETTING ANY PARTS WORTH THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS I WAS IN
BUSNESS ALL MY LIFE AND WAS VERY SUCESSFUL BUT TO MY MANY CUSTOMERS I TOLD
THE TRUTH NO LIES UPON LIES LIKE SS FRANK AND THE REST. THE STATE ATTORNEY
GENERAL SHOULD PUT THEM OUT OF BUSNESS AND PUT AN END TO THE SORROW THEY
ARE CAUSING > BOB (GRUMPS)
----- Original Message -----
From: <customtrans@qwest.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Skystar
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
>
> I also encourage everybody to try and support skystar. I have been very
> pleased with their service. I personally plan on having the two top rated
> airplanes, the rv and the kitfox. I plan on owning both and maintaining
> both for a number of years in the future. If skystar is having some
> troubles, I'm sure any other business during these times are. My business
> hasn't sustained any problems, only because I restructured and made
> possible
> to maintain sales equal or better(slightly) over last year. But I will
> say
> that as a business person you never pay for something that needs to be
> built
> 100% before it is made, always a deposit, and then pay in full before it
> is
> sent, this means the product is physically made and in the mail. If you
> have to pay months ahead before it's made, my opinion, isn't going to get
> my
> business.
>
> steve a
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Randy
> Daughenbaugh
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Skystar
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh"
> <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
>
> Scott,
> I urge you to buy your engine from Skystar.
>
> About a year ago I bought my 912S from them. I got it from them for two
> main reasons. First, I wanted to support them and I didn't find any real
> increased cost to getting it from them. Second, they did mount the engine
> ring on the engine and a few other things that sped up installation.
>
> I just told Dave I wanted the 912s and he told me he would contact me when
> there was one available from the factory. He told me not to send the
> money
> until he knew an engine was available. A few weeks later he called to
> tell
> me that an engine was available. I then sent him the money, and a few
> weeks
> later had the engine.
>
> My only regret is that I didn't get the oil cooler at the same time. I am
> installing it soon.
>
> Randy - Series 5/7 912S Power Fin
>
> .
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kitfoxpilot
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Skystar
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxpilot" <kitfoxpilot@comcast.net>
>
> In January I will be at two years. All I have left is my engine mount and
> exhaust. I'm glad I didn't order the engine when I bought my kit. I think
> I
> will play it safe with the engine and order it from a Rotax dealer.
> Although
> it looks like I may have to fab my own engine mount and exhaust system.
>
> And to think, I bought the quick build kit.
>
> Scott Miller
> Series 7 Sport
> Seattle
>
>
Message 13
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: roncarolnikko@webtv.net (Ron Schick)
Erling on avid flyer aircraft site has one. The plane is no longer for
sale, but the pod probably is. Fits an avid hh but would surely fit the
kitfox with minor changes. Ron do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: No Gratuitous Skystar Bashing Please. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Chill Bob. These types of outburst aren't helping anybody with anything.
Without throwing all the emotion into it, why don't you just tell us what
specifically you have on order and how long you've been waiting. Perhaps
something can be done to help get your parts for you.
Darrel
>
> DON you might feel diffrent if SS had thousands of dollars and not comming
> across with anything you ordered all you get is lies more lies FRANK AND
HIS
> CRONIES SHOULD BE THROWN IN JAIL!!!!!!!!!! BOB (GRUMPS)
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kitfox-List: No Gratuitous Skystar Bashing Please.
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall"
> > <donpearsall@comcast.net>
> >
> > The past few days have seen lots of messages about Skystar and NSI. As
the
> > list janitor (NOT MODERATOR) I want to encourage all to only post
> > experiences with our vendors that you personally have, good or bad. This
> > list is to educate us all with real life experiences and wisdom from the
> > wide range of members we have.
> >
> > "Piling on" after a negative post does not help anyone, so please
refrain
> > from that. I am sure that Skystar staff are working hard to make sure
the
> > company stays afloat, and I know that they are all very good and honest
> > people who are doing their best.
> >
> > When you have an experience either good or bad you want to share, you
are
> > encouraged to do so. However, please do not reply to those posts with
more
> > gratuitous negativity. This is the holiday season. Be upbeat, be honest
> > but
> > courteous.
> >
> > Thank you, and Happy Holidays everyone.
> >
> >
> > Don Pearsall
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Engine ram air intake |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Torgeir Mortensen wrote:
> I got a link to your reference, go here:
> http://www.approachaviation.com/html_pages/learning_center.html
Thanks for your help, Torgeir and Kurt and ... Merry Christmas to all of you!
Torgeir et al, the background of this is an off-list discussion between Kurt,
me, and a French friend. I was wondering how to make the air inlet to the
Jabiru airbox. I see now that by pressurizing it one can "fool" the engine to
believe it is in denser air.
But it won't work on the Jabiru because the airbox has a high pressure valve on
the top that makes sure the incoming air is not at higher pressure than what is
in the engine room. Likewise, there are two small holes at the bottom to ensure
that if, by any chance, a foreign object gets in the air duct, the engine won't
stop entirely.
Anyway, thanks again and it's a real pleasure to learn in company of so
knowledgeable friends.
Have a great Yuletide (which happens to be the Scandinavian word for: Christmas
time) and remember that today, the sun is "turning" as we say in Norwegian. It
can't get any darker, we are at the winter solstice! :-)
Cheers,
Michel
Message 16
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
scottm wrote:
> lot of people on the Vision builder's list also use vinegar
> for cleaning up squeegees, tools, etc.
Thanks Don and Scott. Yes, I was told no clean-up agent was available and I
should buy many brushes. That was said by the guy ... who sells brushes! :-)
Acetone is what I use to remove the de-moulding wax. Nasty stuff. Your idea of
vinegar sounds much more friendly, I'll have to try that. Otherwise I found
that alcohol can also do the trick to some extend (no, not 20 years old malt
whiskey, but industrial alcohol! :-)
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 17
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Tommy Dubroc" <TandCDubroc@centurytel.net>
Hello Group,
Anyone have an IVO quick adjust prop hub for sale?
Thanks,
Tommy
Message 18
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Aerobatics@aol.com
In a message dated 12/22/2004 12:56:30 PM Central Standard Time,
TandCDubroc@centurytel.net writes:
Hello Group,
Anyone have an IVO quick adjust prop hub for sale?
Thanks,
Tommy
Im Keeping Mine!! :-)
Message 19
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Tommy,
Certainly... If you want new.. I can help.
Blue Skies
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tommy Dubroc
Subject: Kitfox-List: IVO Hub
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Tommy Dubroc"
<TandCDubroc@centurytel.net>
Hello Group,
Anyone have an IVO quick adjust prop hub for sale?
Thanks,
Tommy
Message 20
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
Hi guys lots of vendors out there that sell IVO
Anyone buying and where from ?
Shorty
----- Original Message -----
From: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO Hub
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
>
> Tommy,
> Certainly... If you want new.. I can help.
>
> Blue Skies
> John & Debra McBean
> www.sportplanellc.com
> "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tommy Dubroc
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: IVO Hub
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Tommy Dubroc"
> <TandCDubroc@centurytel.net>
>
>
> Hello Group,
> Anyone have an IVO quick adjust prop hub for sale?
> Thanks,
> Tommy
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 21
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Aerobatics@aol.com
In a message dated 12/22/2004 4:39:49 PM Central Standard Time,
shortnaked@golden.net writes:
Hi guys lots of vendors out there that sell IVO
Anyone buying and where from ?
Shorty
Buy Direct from IVO.....
Easy, and got great advice...
Dave
Message 22
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Aerobatics@aol.com
Ops Didnt see Blue skies....
good source too!
:-)
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: No Gratuitous Skystar Bashing Please. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 12/22/04 7:55:55 AM Pacific Standard Time,
morid@northland.lib.mi.us writes:
<<
Chill Bob. These types of outburst aren't helping anybody with anything >>
Thanks Darrel, I was getting a headache............
Do Not Archive
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: No Gratuitous Skystar Bashing Please. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
Well
Looks like we back to normal
Anyone Flying on skis yet ?
calling for 10 to 12 inches here tonight maybe fly by xmas day lol
Shorty
----- Original Message -----
From: <AlbertaIV@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: No Gratuitous Skystar Bashing Please.
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 12/22/04 7:55:55 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> morid@northland.lib.mi.us writes:
>
> <<
> Chill Bob. These types of outburst aren't helping anybody with anything
>>
>
>
> Thanks Darrel, I was getting a headache............
> Do Not Archive
>
> Don Smythe
> N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
>
>
Message 25
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Hopefully me..... What are you after Shorty ?? Contact me off-list
sportplane@cableone.net or
Blue Skies
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of shortnaked
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: IVO Hub
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
Hi guys lots of vendors out there that sell IVO
Anyone buying and where from ?
Shorty
----- Original Message -----
From: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO Hub
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
>
> Tommy,
> Certainly... If you want new.. I can help.
>
> Blue Skies
> John & Debra McBean
> www.sportplanellc.com
> "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tommy Dubroc
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: IVO Hub
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Tommy Dubroc"
> <TandCDubroc@centurytel.net>
>
>
> Hello Group,
> Anyone have an IVO quick adjust prop hub for sale?
> Thanks,
> Tommy
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Kitfox order update |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Bob & Margaret Olson <bobpa12@direcway.com>
Just wanted to let the list know that Skystar has given me a middle to last of
January delivery date. The delay is caused by a problem with getting the spars.
I am disappointed with this additional delay but really have no choice but to
wait, as I still would like to have a positive relationship with them. If it
goes past January, then all bets are off and I will have to try an recover my
money.
Bob Olson (Series 7, maybe next year!)
Message 27
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| Subject: | Sight glass tubing, fuel |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Glenn Horne" <glennflys@rcn.com>
John,
Will the sight glass tubing fit a Model II with 13 gal. tanks?
Glenn
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of jdmcbean
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Sight glass tubing, fuel
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Keith,
I offer a kit for the fuel sight tubes and placards.... Give a visit
to
http://sportplanellc.com/Products.htm about half way down..
Blue Skies
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Keith Downey
Subject: Kitfox-List: Sight glass tubing, fuel
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Keith Downey" <khd@ekns.net>
I'm back on the list after a substantial off period.
Been off for usual reasons, money, time, etc.
Building a Series 6 / 912ULS / PowerFin ride.
About to bend tubes, ruined one, too hot. Will do better on next but need
answer to: How come the bending jig has one side at a sharper angle than
other? Bend and hold to sharp angle first? If so, won't it hold that end
"over 90 degrees" when set up? Looks like finished product should have two
90 degree bends that are exactly 5" center to center. Help!
Keith in KY
Series 6
khd@ekns.net
Message 28
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
Shorty,
I strongly recommend that you buy from either John Mcbean or Neil at Blue
Sky. These guys provide much needed support to the kitfox community and they
can certainly use the business. John McBean actually has one on his kitfox,
so he knows these props from first hand use, not just in theory. Plus you
will find John to be an almost endless source of knowledge about building
AND flying kitfoxes. He shares this knowledge freely here on the list to the
benefit of all. (he spent many years working for Skystar).
Best Regards,
Cliff
S5, Lyc 0-235
Erie, CO
>
> Hi guys lots of vendors out there that sell IVO
>
> Anyone buying and where from ?
>
> Shorty
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Sight glass tubing, fuel |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Aerobatics@aol.com
Can I retro fit on a finished plane?
Dave
KF2 582
Message 30
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
Hi guys
I think their is some confusion as I am not looking to buy a prop.
I am running on 582 now a GSC 68 " 3 blader set at 15 deg and it works
excellent for my wheels and skis operations.
I have posted info and performance here before .
I weigh 220 lbs and plane is 526 lbs. with 6 gals of fuel
what can i expcect by changing props to a IVO ?
tell me crusie speeds and climb from static.
Shorty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: IVO Hub
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud"
<shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
>
> Shorty,
> I strongly recommend that you buy from either John Mcbean or Neil at Blue
> Sky. These guys provide much needed support to the kitfox community and
they
> can certainly use the business. John McBean actually has one on his
kitfox,
> so he knows these props from first hand use, not just in theory. Plus you
> will find John to be an almost endless source of knowledge about building
> AND flying kitfoxes. He shares this knowledge freely here on the list to
the
> benefit of all. (he spent many years working for Skystar).
> Best Regards,
> Cliff
> S5, Lyc 0-235
> Erie, CO
>
> >
> > Hi guys lots of vendors out there that sell IVO
> >
> > Anyone buying and where from ?
> >
> > Shorty
> >
> >
>
>
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Re: SKYSTAR FUSS!! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: KITFOXPILOT@att.net
-------------- Original message from "bob" <grumps@megalink.net>: --------------
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "bob"
>
> YUP RAY WHY DON"T YOU SEND THEM THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS LIKE SOME OF US AND
> RECIEVE NOTHING IN RETURN FOR YEARS IT MIGHT MAKE YOU CHANGE YOUR TUNE!!!!!
> THEY ARE NOTHING BUT A BUNCH OF LIERS AND CROOKS AND FRANK IS THE BOSS I
> WOULD LIKE TO SEE THEM ROT IN JAIL FOR A WHILE BOB (GRUMPS)
Very Bitter Person!!!!! My post was not an attack on you!!!
Ray
---- Original Message -----
> From:
> To: "LIST"
> Subject: Kitfox-List: SKYSTAR FUSS!!
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: KITFOXPILOT@att.net
> >
> > I have been reading all the post about Skystar, and the fuss is way out of
> > line!! I have made plenty of orders from skystar including an updated
> > engine mount and exhaust system with no delay on my orders.I'm sure those
> > of you that are complaining may have some other issues with Skystar that
> > you may have forgot to shair with the list!!!
> >
> > Ray
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I have been reading all the post about Skystar, and the fuss is way out of
> > line!! I have made plenty of orders from skystar including an updated
> > engine mount and exhaust system with no delay on my orders.I'm sure those
> > of you that are complainingmay have some other issues with Skystar that
> > you may have forgot to shair with the list!!!
> >
> > Ray
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
<!-- BEGIN WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
<!-- WEBMAIL STATIONERY noneset -->
-------------- Original message from "bob" grumps@megalink.net: --------------
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: "bob" <GRUMPS@MEGALINK.NET>
YUP RAY WHY DON"T YOU SEND THEM THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS LIKE SOME OF US AND
RECIEVE NOTHING IN RETURN FOR YEARS IT MIGHT MAKE YOU CHANGE YOUR TUNE!!!!!
THEY ARE NOTHING BUT A BUNCH OF LIERS AND CROOKS AND FRANK IS THE BOSS I
WOULD LIKE TO SEE THEM ROT IN JAIL FOR A WHILE BOB (GRUMPS)
Very Bitter Person!!!!! My post was not an attack on you!!!
Ray
---- Original Message -----
From: <KITFOXPILOT@ATT.NET>
To: "LIST" <KITFOX-LIST@MATRONICS.COM>
Subject: Kitfox-List: SKYSTAR FUSS!!
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: KITFOXPILOT@att.net
I have been reading all the post about Skystar, and the fuss is way out of
line!! I have made plenty of orders from skystar including an updated
engine mount and exhaust system with no delay on my orders.I'm sure those
of you that are complaining may have some other issues with Skystar that
you may have forgot to shair with the list!!!
Ray
<!-- BEGIN WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
<!-- WEBMAIL STATIONERY noneset -->
I have been reading all the post about Skystar, and the fuss is way out of
line!! I have made plenty of orders from skys
tar including an updated
engine mount and exhaust system with no delay on my orders.I'm sure those
of you that are complainingmay have some other issues with Skystar that
you may have forgot to shair with the list!!!
Ray
<!-- END WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm
<!-- END WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
Message 32
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| Subject: | Kitfox order update |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
Thanks for updating us, Bob. At least now you have a date to shoot for,
which is some progress!
Don Pearsall
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob & Margaret
Olson
Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox order update
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Bob & Margaret Olson
<bobpa12@direcway.com>
Just wanted to let the list know that Skystar has given me a middle to last
of January delivery date. The delay is caused by a problem with getting the
spars. I am disappointed with this additional delay but really have no
choice but to wait, as I still would like to have a positive relationship
with them. If it goes past January, then all bets are off and I will have to
try an recover my money.
Bob Olson (Series 7, maybe next year!)
Message 33
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| Subject: | Sight glass tubing, fuel |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Glen and Dave,
The kit can most definitely be retrofit into a finished plane... The
Placard was designed to fit in the Model IV, 5, 6 & 7 wing with 13 gal
tanks. Could it be trimmed to fit the Model II airfoil ?..... The tubes
are bent with 5" center to center and the fittings are 1/8" NPT.
Blue Skies
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Glenn Horne
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Sight glass tubing, fuel
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Glenn Horne" <glennflys@rcn.com>
John,
Will the sight glass tubing fit a Model II with 13 gal. tanks?
Glenn
Can I retro fit on a finished plane?
Dave
KF2 582
Message 34
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| Subject: | Skystar Analysis |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: <r66rc-matronics@yahoo.com>
The various threads on the health of Skystar's business and the quality of their
customer relations made me think of an email I received THREE YEARS AGO from
Lowell Fitt, a frequent contributor to this e-group.
This was the core of his observations, which we might use when analyzing Skystar:
"...The kitplane industry is a shoestring business. My guess is that the revenues
just about pay suppliers and employees. The thought that a person could invest
his nestegg in securities - even treasury notes and get definable return
and then buy a kitplane company and have a good chance to lose the whole thing
is scary. They are in the business of selling Kitfox kits but are primarily
in the business of staying in business. I have had my share of problems during
my construction, but have come to understand that if they give too much away
free in the name of customer relations they eventually disappear which is very
poor customer relations. All in all, I think they are a good company and try
to be fair..."
Since Lowell wrote this in January of 2002, not much has changed about the inherent
nature of the industry as he described it, but a number of other things have
come into play so it seems fair to create a "good list" and a "bad list" regarding
Skystar.
The good list:
1) No one in this e-group wants to see Skystar go under, no matter how disappointed
or nervous they are. There isn't anyone inside or outside the cockpit of
a plane that doesn't smile when they see a Kitfox go by. It is the contemporary
heir to the Piper Cub's legacy.
2) The staff is pretty friendly despite the pressure they are under. Skystar is
an oasis in the midst of the everyday dealings with computer-support centers
in India, endless phone trees, and everything else brought to you by Big Corporate
America.
3) The engineering is solid. This could be very important if Light Sport starts
to lose its luster in the event of bad experiences with the "everybody and his
brother" crowd trying to get into the LSA business with questionable products
that take LS pilots straight into the NTSB database.
The bad list:
1) The demand for capital funding to ramp up for LS certified aircraft is enormous.
There is so much overhead cost associated with this kind of effort that
only the strong will survive. You can expect to see consolidation in the kitplane
industry, corporate marriages that have previously never been a part of the
scene. It will most certainly happen if the Big Boys like the looks of the return
on investment in certified LS planes. And there will also be mergers of
former competitors who are simply starving for capital and have no choice but
to join forces. All these pressures are directly affecting Skystar.
2) The recent Skystar chronology of stretched delivery times, delay of certain
components (engines, etc.), loss of staff (John McBean, etc.) are all indicators
of a cash crunch. It seems that some of the suppliers have probably put Skystar
on a COD delivery basis because of overextended accounts payable. Someone
please tell me I'm wrong.....
3) Skystar is not following the lead of some of its competitors in key marketing
and production areas. In marketing, the website is a mess - a victim of cost
cutting, no doubt. In production, Vans makes Phillipine labor available to
do substantial assembly work on kits prior to delivery to customers. Skystar has
not pursued this, perhaps because their volume is lower but more likely because
the ramp-up costs are too much. (I'm avoiding the "Made in the USA" argument
here because I can't find anything in Home Depot these days that isn't made
in China, for better and for worse.)
There is also the problem of Skystar being swamped by LSA Kitfox knock-off lookalikes.
That is another marketing challenge that needs to be addressed.
Some final notes:
- John McBean hasn't publicly weighed in on the situation. Given his business interests
in the kitplane industry, we're not likely to hear anything soon, but
I'd give anything for the chance to buy him lunch and just listen.
- Skystar is most likely staying quiet because they'll be (quickly) damned if
they go public with bad news and (slowly) damned if they don't. Which would you
choose if you were trying to keep a small company alive? The media, in particular,
would be smelling blood in the water.
- We're facing one of those "I love you but I don't trust you" situations where
we all want to believe in Skystar's future but there is enough anecdotal evidence
to make some folks nervous about being left holding the bag if the lights
go out.
This nervousness won't be contained until Skystar resumes normal business practices
regarding customer deposits, delivery, customer communication, etc. Remember,
for us, it's a hobby and hobbyists are pretty forgiving because their planes
are a love affair. But for Skystar, it's a business and we have to remember
to be business-like in dealing with a business. Would you be this forgiving
if you were dealing with GM?
- If Skystar goes under, the losers will be limited to those with purchased but
undelivered goods. The Skystar/Kitfox concept and engineering would live on when
someone else picked up the assets and tried it again, perhaps as a division
of some other company. Kitfoxes - as a concept - won't die.
Here's to hoping that Skystar can make it through these tough times, for everyone's
sake.
Holiday best to all,
Rich Cunningham
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Sight glass tubing, fuel |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Grant Fluent <gjfpilot@yahoo.com>
Keith,
The bending jig has a sharper angle on one side
because when you bend the tubing, it will tend to
spring back a little bit. Skystar has made the angle
less than 90 degrees so that when the tubing springs
back, it should be close to 90 degrees.
When I bent mine, I used a nylon cord through the
tubing to do the bending. I did have to order more
tubing as I ruined the stuff in the kit. I did end up
with some nice bends after I figured it out. I pressed
a piece of aluminum round (with a 1/16" hole drilled
through it) into the ends so that the black fittings
would not deform the ends.
If you need a jig, I still have mine.
Grant Fluent
Newcastle, NE
Classic IV 912S
--- roger augenstein <raugenstein@fuse.net> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "roger
> augenstein" <raugenstein@fuse.net>
>
> Keith,
> I used brass barb fittings in the tank and
> polyvinyl clear tubing that is
> gas resistant. Then a 1/8" copper tube bent at the
> 90 degree angles in the
> tubing to hold the correct angles. Hope this helps.
> Roger
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Keith Downey" <khd@ekns.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Sight glass tubing, fuel
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Keith Downey"
> <khd@ekns.net>
> >
> > I'm back on the list after a substantial off
> period.
> > Been off for usual reasons, money, time, etc.
> > Building a Series 6 / 912ULS / PowerFin ride.
> > About to bend tubes, ruined one, too hot. Will do
> better on next but need
> answer to: How come the bending jig has one side at
> a sharper angle than
> other? Bend and hold to sharp angle first? If so,
> won't it hold that end
> "over 90 degrees" when set up? Looks like finished
> product should have two
> 90 degree bends that are exactly 5" center to
> center. Help!
> >
> > Keith in KY
> > Series 6
> > khd@ekns.net
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
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Message 36
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| Subject: | Skystar Analysis |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
Very good analysis, Rich. I cannot find anything there that is not 100%
accurate.
For those with long memories, Skystar started on a shoestring, and now they
are hanging on to a shoestring. They have been through good and bad times. A
lot of good money has been thrown at Skystar trying to make it into another
Van's. It has not worked so far, for a number of reasons.
Previous owner Phil Reed once took me aside and told me the secret to making
a million dollars in the kitplane business. "You know how to make a million
dollars in the Kitplane business? Start out with 5 million dollars."
Don Pearsall
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Careful out there |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: EMAproducts@aol.com
Stall/Spin Accidents from NTSB data
Did you know anyone that planned on an accident?
Safe Flying fellow pilots!
Elbie
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Another article on AOA |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: EMAproducts@aol.com
For those who want to learn, go to my website, then to the link to "An
Excellent article on AOA" It is the best I've read in my 25,000 hours of flying
aircraft from single place homebuilts to 767s. The entire book is available on
the web. Excellent, let me know off line what you think if you want. Entire
book is extremely well written. Good reading for all pilots. Some portions have
some controversial ideas, but I'm not a Physicist with a Ph.D. and he is~~he
is also a CFI.
Elbie
www.riteangle.com or direct at http://www.av8n.com/how/
Message 39
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| Subject: | Skis. WAS: No Gratuitous Skystar Bashing Please. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
shortnaked wrote:
> Anyone Flying on skis yet ?
Well, if you come over and help me to finish installing that Jabiru, Shorty, I
am dying to try the skis I made last year. I had only two flights on them, then
came spring. :-)
Happy holidays,
Michel
do not archive
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