Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:38 AM - Re: KF III vs KF IV (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
2. 04:36 AM - Engine choices (Fox5flyer)
3. 04:36 AM - Re: 0-235 (Clifford Begnaud)
4. 05:17 AM - (no subject) (DC91840@aol.com)
5. 07:24 AM - 0-235 reply (roncarolnikko@webtv.net (Ron Schick))
6. 07:25 AM - Re: KF III vs KF IV (shortnaked)
7. 07:45 AM - Re: Kit Fox needed (Tony Clark)
8. 09:53 AM - tsunami relief set up (shortnaked)
9. 10:48 AM - Re: tsunami relief set up (Michel Verheughe)
10. 11:20 AM - Re: Engine choices (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
11. 11:33 AM - Re: Engine choices (shortnaked)
12. 12:33 PM - Re: Kitfox-List KF III vs KF IV (Michael Gibbs)
13. 06:26 PM - Re: Engine choices (Steve Zakreski)
14. 06:49 PM - Re: 0-235 reply (Cudnohufsky's)
15. 06:51 PM - Re: Engine choices (shortnaked)
16. 06:56 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox-List KF III vs KF IV (Cudnohufsky's)
17. 07:13 PM - Re: Engine choices (Torgeir Mortensen)
18. 08:20 PM - Re: Engine choices (customtrans@qwest.net)
19. 08:24 PM - Re: Engine choices (customtrans@qwest.net)
20. 08:58 PM - Re: Engine choices (Steve Zakreski)
21. 09:01 PM - Re: Engine choices (roncarolnikko@webtv.net (Ron Schick))
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: KF III vs KF IV |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 12/28/04 8:19:47 PM Pacific Standard Time,
clint_bazzill@hotmail.com writes:
<< I think that an NSI on a Model IV with amphib floats and full fuel, you
would have to be a 10 lb pilot to be legal. Clint >>
Just some second hand information on this Model IV and NSI thing. Michael
Harter put the NSI in his classic IV and mentioned a couple times that he
regretted the choice. He was way heavy and just about always flew over gross.
Not
to mention the fact that John King used to have to throttle back his Rotax 912
to keep from flying circles around him.
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 2
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
> Just some second hand information on this Model IV and NSI thing. Michael
> Harter put the NSI in his classic IV and mentioned a couple times that he
> regretted the choice. He was way heavy and just about always flew over
gross. Not
> to mention the fact that John King used to have to throttle back his Rotax
912
> to keep from flying circles around him.
I have to partially agree with the above statement. Yes, the NSI (why is it
always NSI? How about Stratus, Eggenfelner, and several others?) is not a
perfect match for the IV because of the gross weight limitations. However
there are a lot of satisfied owners of that combination, some of who are on
this list and I think they grow very weary of people telling them that their
choice was wrong.
As for the last part, "flying circles around him" is a bit of an exageration
in that Mike should have been able to easily cruise at 110 with that CAP
prop. My S5 which is larger and heavier than the IV, will cruise all day at
110 with 65 percent power at 4gph. Then again, I have lots of fairings. I
had several conversations with Mike via phone and at no time did he even
imply that he wasn't happy with his choice. He did say that he needed to
take some time to fair up his struts and other areas, but was having too
much fun flying to take the airplane down for that long.
IMO the perfect match for the Classic IV is the 912S with lots of fairings.
It would be a real rocket. However, the Rotax 912 has gotten very expensive
and many people who can't afford it are looking for less expensive
alternatives. This is what "Experimental" is all about and it's been going
on since the 40s so lets let people experiment without having to feel guilty
for it.
Darrel
NE Michigan
Message 3
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
Ron,
I have the 0-235 on a model 5 and it is at the high end of what this plane
can take. In my opinion it would be a huge mistake to put an 0-235 on a
model 4.
I doubt that you could even get the CG in range with the short fusalage of
the model 4. It's not a problem on the 5 because the fusalage is longer.
Also, I doubt that the structure of the model 4 is up to the stress that
this engine would put on it, both from weight and horse power.
Best Regards,
Cliff
ps. Please DON'T DO IT!
>
> I have a chance to look at a Lycoming 0-235 this weekend and was
> wondering if anyone had put that heavy of a motor on a kf4. With all the
> discussion about over gross I could register mine over 1200. Plenty of
> power to pull it I would think even with lead in the tail. Thanx in
> advance Ron
>
>
>
Message 4
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: DC91840@aol.com
To all you guys discusing engines. The Jabiru 3300 is the
perfect replacement for the Rotax 912.
The weight is within a few lbs. of being the
same. It's a real aircraft engine with a 2000 hr.
TBO. It is aircooled , direct drive and is a very smooth runner.
Only drawback is the cowling. If only Skystar would make a
cowling for it.
Yes the O-235 is much too heavy and also to large. A good
engine but not for a Kitfox IV.
My feelings only .
Message 5
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: roncarolnikko@webtv.net (Ron Schick)
Wow thanx for all of the real life response to my question. Yes the
rotax and Jabiru would probably be my choice if money were no object. I
have most of the parts to build vw power and have located a few
economical two strokes, but would like the dependability of 4stroke even
if I lose a little speed. Still I value all of your experience and
opinions as I do not want to reinvent the wheel with a flat tire. Ron
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: KF III vs KF IV |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
Gary ,
What engine in this Kf III?
Prolly not a big deal on a III unless you adding a 4 stroke and or floats.
lots o KF II and III flying and anyone ever heard of Over stressed KF
breaking up ?
Shorty
----- Original Message -----
From: "kitfoxjunky" <kitfoxjunky@decisionlabs.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: KF III vs KF IV
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky
<kitfoxjunky@decisionlabs.com>
>
> I have a chance to purchase a nearly completed KF III. I own a IV at this
> time, and I understand the difference between the two is a beefed up
> structure to allow for the higher gross weight of 1200 lbs. The kit is
> covered and painted through to silver, and I was wondering if it was worth
> it to upgrade it to get the higher gross weight when it is this far along
> in the build process. If I only have to remove some of the covering to
> weld in larger tubes, then that would be ok. If there are fuse, wing and
> tail mods, and much of the covering has to be torn off, then it may not be
> worth it.
>
> Any advice?
>
>
> Gary Walsh
> C-GOOT
> www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Kit Fox needed |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tony Clark <funflyer1959@yahoo.com>
there is a guy in pontotoc, ms with a kitfox iv with either a lycoming or continental
engine. it's a nice flying plane with the certified engine.
Jimmie Blackwell <jablackwell@ev1.net> wrote:--> Kitfox-List message posted by:
"Jimmie Blackwell"
Ronnie Smith of South Mississippi Light Aircraft Company had a Model IV for
sale a few weeks ago. As I recall he had just overhauled the engine. His
email is
My experience is that Ronnie is a good guy to deal with. He has always
treated me right on parts and advice.
Jimmie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clifford Dow"
Subject: Kitfox-List: Kit Fox needed
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Clifford Dow
>
> Hello
> I'm looking to buy a Kitfox - east of the Missisippi - anywhere from
florida to Maine - i'm in Maine. Anyone know of any out there?
> I had an RV-7A I built - sold recently - just too much airplane for me -i
was on my way to a short life. I have a nice 1500 foot runway on my land
and want something affordable I can fly in and out of this strip - something
with folding wings - just like a kitfox so I don't have to build an
expensive hanger.
> Ideally a Kitfox project that's finished just does not have motor -that
I'd be right into - but it would need to have fabric finished - I need
minimal fabrication time to get it flying.
> Thanks for your help.
> cliff
> cdowjr@yahoo.com
> cell - 207-329-9468/ wk 1 800-442-6375
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
---------------------------------
Send a seasonal email greeting and help others. Do good.
Message 8
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| Subject: | tsunami relief set up |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
30 times more deaths that 911 SUPPORT NOW Help the Needy in thailand NOW
!!!!!!! http://www.lazair.com
Look after our fellow humans
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Clark" <funflyer1959@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kit Fox needed
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tony Clark <funflyer1959@yahoo.com>
>
> there is a guy in pontotoc, ms with a kitfox iv with either a lycoming or
continental engine. it's a nice flying plane with the certified engine.
>
> Jimmie Blackwell <jablackwell@ev1.net> wrote:--> Kitfox-List message
posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell"
>
> Ronnie Smith of South Mississippi Light Aircraft Company had a Model IV
for
> sale a few weeks ago. As I recall he had just overhauled the engine. His
> email is
>
> My experience is that Ronnie is a good guy to deal with. He has always
> treated me right on parts and advice.
>
> Jimmie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Clifford Dow"
> To:
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Kit Fox needed
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Clifford Dow
> >
> > Hello
> > I'm looking to buy a Kitfox - east of the Missisippi - anywhere from
> florida to Maine - i'm in Maine. Anyone know of any out there?
> > I had an RV-7A I built - sold recently - just too much airplane for
me -i
> was on my way to a short life. I have a nice 1500 foot runway on my land
> and want something affordable I can fly in and out of this strip -
something
> with folding wings - just like a kitfox so I don't have to build an
> expensive hanger.
> > Ideally a Kitfox project that's finished just does not have motor -that
> I'd be right into - but it would need to have fabric finished - I need
> minimal fabrication time to get it flying.
> > Thanks for your help.
> > cliff
> > cdowjr@yahoo.com
> > cell - 207-329-9468/ wk 1 800-442-6375
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Send a seasonal email greeting and help others. Do good.
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: tsunami relief set up |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
shortnaked wrote:
> Look after our fellow humans
Amen, brother! Just did my donation to our national Red Cross.
PS: Also many Norwegian tourists are reported missing.
Michel
Do not archive
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Engine choices |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 12/29/04 4:37:10 AM Pacific Standard Time,
morid@northland.lib.mi.us writes:
<< As for the last part, "flying circles around him" is a bit of an
exageration
in that Mike should have been able to easily cruise at 110 with that CAP
prop. My S5 which is larger and heavier than the IV, will cr >>
Darrel,
My apologies. Did not mean to be negative against the NSI or any other
engine choice. Was just pointing out a bit of second hand information. You're
right, a bit of exaggeration on my part but John Kings 912 at the time was
faster than Harters NSI (w/cap).
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Engine choices |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
not to start a NSI negaticity but
some of theese planes at over 800 lbs empty ?
nsi will crusie about 15 mph faster than a 582
but you canot take anyone with you ?
we talking alot of weight but hey to each his own.
What are the ser 7 like ? can you hang a lycoming on it ?
sportsman got a nice set up too anyone got any experience there?
i guess we should jut all run C 206 amphibs :) butthey get a bit
expensive
Shorty
----- Original Message -----
From: <AlbertaIV@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choices
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 12/29/04 4:37:10 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> morid@northland.lib.mi.us writes:
>
> << As for the last part, "flying circles around him" is a bit of an
> exageration
> in that Mike should have been able to easily cruise at 110 with that CAP
> prop. My S5 which is larger and heavier than the IV, will cr >>
>
> Darrel,
> My apologies. Did not mean to be negative against the NSI or any
other
> engine choice. Was just pointing out a bit of second hand information.
You're
> right, a bit of exaggeration on my part but John Kings 912 at the time was
> faster than Harters NSI (w/cap).
>
> Don Smythe
> N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox-List KF III vs KF IV |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>I have a chance to purchase a nearly completed KF III. I own a IV at this
>time, and I understand the difference between the two is a beefed up
>structure to allow for the higher gross weight of 1200 lbs.
Gary,
Another important difference that you'll notice each time you fly is
that the III does not have the differential flaperon mixer that
debuted on the IV. Adverse yaw will be more pronounced.
Personally, I think it is a bad idea to make structural changes to
the fuselage weldment and operate the design above it's intended
weights. Getting away with something for a while does not mean that
it is safe. I would also wonder whether or not an insurance company
might deny a claim because they consider the modifications or
operation of the aircraft to be outside the terms of the policy.
Something to find out before you have an accident or incident.
Just food for thought.
Mike G.
N728KF
Message 13
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski <szakreski@shaw.ca>
Shorty, you're probably scaring the bejeebers out of a half dozen builders
out there.
There is no problem whatsoever installing the NSI on a Kitfox 5,6,7... which
have an extra 200 or 300 lbs gross weight. The NSI is an outstanding
engine, much better than the Rotax for my mission. On the model IV or less,
the NSI clearly limits the utility of the aircraft if you are shy about
going over the 1200 lb GW. My Kitfox IV with the NSI flies wonderfully at
all weights, even an occasional 150 lbs over gross. It has plenty of power
to handle the extra weight. It is much more stable in turbulence then a
Cessna 172. It is an outstanding long distance cruiser through summer and
the Canadian winter, and it regularly crosses the Canadian Rockies at 12,000
asl, and many times at 15,000 asl if the weather is marginal or the winds in
my favour. It has been on several trips exceeding 1500 miles (each way).
It has flown from Calgary to Mount St Helen, over the Sierra Nevada's,
through Death Valley, Las Vegas, Grand Canyon, it been across Canada twice,
been to Oshkosh... I have enough confidence in the NSI that I fly GPS
direct wherever I go, staying away from airports. A lot of my flying is
over remote areas. Mine has the CAP prop, and has been up to 18,000 asl (OK
17,900 asl to stay legal) I have a ton of cabin heat, 60 watts of power
which powers my nav lights, strobes, landing lights, heater fans, two GPS's,
transponder, and COM and tons of amps left over to charge the battery in no
time. I have vacuum pump, AI, DG. It has never failed to start on me
unless some bumpkin (me) left the Master Switch on. Mechanical work is dirt
cheap compared to the Rotax since any local auto machine shop can do most
work. Sparkplugs, oil filters, oil, all from the local store. Fuel:
whatever you want to use, 100LL, regular auto , premium auto . The standby
reliability is MUCH better than my Commander 114 which is laid up with
something or other about 30% of the time. The Kitfox is always ready to go
unless I'm modifying something. I cruise at about 105 mph without wheel
pants which I am in the process of installing. Not many people regularly fly
their kitfoxes much faster than that. A few certainly do, but not most. For
me, there is no greater pleasure than cruising WAY up high over the Rockies,
on my way to the Pacific coast islands, with a 40 mph tailwind, with
unlimited visibility through the bubble doors, smooooth engine, 4 gph with
the snow covered mountains spread below me... wanna see what happens to a
person when he does it?
http://www.sportflight.com/uploads/Pilot_SteveZ.jpg
Try that in a 2 stroker (OK I couldn't resist, 2 stokers are fine, just a
different mission)
SteveZ
Calgary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of shortnaked
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choices
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
not to start a NSI negaticity but
some of theese planes at over 800 lbs empty ?
nsi will crusie about 15 mph faster than a 582
but you canot take anyone with you ?
we talking alot of weight but hey to each his own.
What are the ser 7 like ? can you hang a lycoming on it ?
sportsman got a nice set up too anyone got any experience there?
i guess we should jut all run C 206 amphibs :) butthey get a bit
expensive
Shorty
----- Original Message -----
From: <AlbertaIV@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choices
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 12/29/04 4:37:10 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> morid@northland.lib.mi.us writes:
>
> << As for the last part, "flying circles around him" is a bit of an
> exageration
> in that Mike should have been able to easily cruise at 110 with that CAP
> prop. My S5 which is larger and heavier than the IV, will cr >>
>
> Darrel,
> My apologies. Did not mean to be negative against the NSI or any
other
> engine choice. Was just pointing out a bit of second hand information.
You're
> right, a bit of exaggeration on my part but John Kings 912 at the time was
> faster than Harters NSI (w/cap).
>
> Don Smythe
> N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
>
>
Message 14
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cudnohufsky's" <7suds@chartermi.net>
Ron,
My 2 cents worth, I purchased a used unassembled Model IV XL Kit that came
with the Rotax 503. My first thought when building was that when it came to
install the engine I was going to look for something bigger, well, when the
time came I did not have the money for bigger so I put in the 503. I flew it
that way for 4 years, no regrets, the plane was a blast to fly, docile and
very economical to operate, and I always had the option to go bigger latter
on. I had the plane faired out well and I could cruise 75 all day on 52Hp.
Lloyd
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Schick" <roncarolnikko@webtv.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: 0-235 reply
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: roncarolnikko@webtv.net (Ron Schick)
>
> Wow thanx for all of the real life response to my question. Yes the
> rotax and Jabiru would probably be my choice if money were no object. I
> have most of the parts to build vw power and have located a few
> economical two strokes, but would like the dependability of 4stroke even
> if I lose a little speed. Still I value all of your experience and
> opinions as I do not want to reinvent the wheel with a flat tire. Ron
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Engine choices |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
Steve , not meaning to scare anoyone.
What kinda climb you get ?
And what is take off distance
and what is TO over 50 foot obstacle?
I was out today in over 12 inches of heavy wet snow took about 200 feet with
20 d flaps to get loose
on touchdown a nice float and feeling less but as speed creep under 25
the slush began to fly and the throttle went in
stick came back and powered on through it .
dat what i like :)
But for nsi i have no experience with one so i can not comment on anything
but the extra weight.
but you did a nice job on commenting the attributes.
Shorty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Zakreski" <szakreski@shaw.ca>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Engine choices
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski <szakreski@shaw.ca>
>
> Shorty, you're probably scaring the bejeebers out of a half dozen builders
> out there.
>
> There is no problem whatsoever installing the NSI on a Kitfox 5,6,7...
which
> have an extra 200 or 300 lbs gross weight. The NSI is an outstanding
> engine, much better than the Rotax for my mission. On the model IV or
less,
> the NSI clearly limits the utility of the aircraft if you are shy about
> going over the 1200 lb GW. My Kitfox IV with the NSI flies wonderfully at
> all weights, even an occasional 150 lbs over gross. It has plenty of power
> to handle the extra weight. It is much more stable in turbulence then a
> Cessna 172. It is an outstanding long distance cruiser through summer and
> the Canadian winter, and it regularly crosses the Canadian Rockies at
12,000
> asl, and many times at 15,000 asl if the weather is marginal or the winds
in
> my favour. It has been on several trips exceeding 1500 miles (each way).
> It has flown from Calgary to Mount St Helen, over the Sierra Nevada's,
> through Death Valley, Las Vegas, Grand Canyon, it been across Canada
twice,
> been to Oshkosh... I have enough confidence in the NSI that I fly GPS
> direct wherever I go, staying away from airports. A lot of my flying is
> over remote areas. Mine has the CAP prop, and has been up to 18,000 asl
(OK
> 17,900 asl to stay legal) I have a ton of cabin heat, 60 watts of power
> which powers my nav lights, strobes, landing lights, heater fans, two
GPS's,
> transponder, and COM and tons of amps left over to charge the battery in
no
> time. I have vacuum pump, AI, DG. It has never failed to start on me
> unless some bumpkin (me) left the Master Switch on. Mechanical work is
dirt
> cheap compared to the Rotax since any local auto machine shop can do most
> work. Sparkplugs, oil filters, oil, all from the local store. Fuel:
> whatever you want to use, 100LL, regular auto , premium auto . The
standby
> reliability is MUCH better than my Commander 114 which is laid up with
> something or other about 30% of the time. The Kitfox is always ready to
go
> unless I'm modifying something. I cruise at about 105 mph without wheel
> pants which I am in the process of installing. Not many people regularly
fly
> their kitfoxes much faster than that. A few certainly do, but not most.
For
> me, there is no greater pleasure than cruising WAY up high over the
Rockies,
> on my way to the Pacific coast islands, with a 40 mph tailwind, with
> unlimited visibility through the bubble doors, smooooth engine, 4 gph with
> the snow covered mountains spread below me... wanna see what happens to a
> person when he does it?
> http://www.sportflight.com/uploads/Pilot_SteveZ.jpg
>
> Try that in a 2 stroker (OK I couldn't resist, 2 stokers are fine, just a
> different mission)
>
> SteveZ
> Calgary
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of shortnaked
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choices
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
>
> not to start a NSI negaticity but
> some of theese planes at over 800 lbs empty ?
>
> nsi will crusie about 15 mph faster than a 582
>
> but you canot take anyone with you ?
> we talking alot of weight but hey to each his own.
>
> What are the ser 7 like ? can you hang a lycoming on it ?
>
> sportsman got a nice set up too anyone got any experience there?
>
> i guess we should jut all run C 206 amphibs :) butthey get a bit
> expensive
>
> Shorty
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <AlbertaIV@aol.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choices
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
> >
> > In a message dated 12/29/04 4:37:10 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> > morid@northland.lib.mi.us writes:
> >
> > << As for the last part, "flying circles around him" is a bit of an
> > exageration
> > in that Mike should have been able to easily cruise at 110 with that
CAP
> > prop. My S5 which is larger and heavier than the IV, will cr >>
> >
> > Darrel,
> > My apologies. Did not mean to be negative against the NSI or any
> other
> > engine choice. Was just pointing out a bit of second hand information.
> You're
> > right, a bit of exaggeration on my part but John Kings 912 at the time
was
> > faster than Harters NSI (w/cap).
> >
> > Don Smythe
> > N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
> >
> >
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox-List KF III vs KF IV |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cudnohufsky's" <7suds@chartermi.net>
Gary, and list,
There is also a change somewhere in there either between the II & III or III
and IV to the wing rib configuration, Heavier bottom concave configuration
on the earlier models.
Lloyd
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Gibbs" <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List KF III vs KF IV
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>
>>I have a chance to purchase a nearly completed KF III. I own a IV at this
>>time, and I understand the difference between the two is a beefed up
>>structure to allow for the higher gross weight of 1200 lbs.
>
> Gary,
>
> Another important difference that you'll notice each time you fly is
> that the III does not have the differential flaperon mixer that
> debuted on the IV. Adverse yaw will be more pronounced.
>
> Personally, I think it is a bad idea to make structural changes to
> the fuselage weldment and operate the design above it's intended
> weights. Getting away with something for a while does not mean that
> it is safe. I would also wonder whether or not an insurance company
> might deny a claim because they consider the modifications or
> operation of the aircraft to be outside the terms of the policy.
> Something to find out before you have an accident or incident.
>
> Just food for thought.
>
> Mike G.
> N728KF
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Engine choices |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
Hi Steve,
Ahh, very good - I liked it!
However, I'm a two stroker, can go very high, -with the "altitude kit"!!
My "light" mod II do me fine, it has it's limitations, but -I'm a lucky
guy- as long the right engine and no microwave oven etc. etc... I'll do
amazing thing, without overloading!
This (last) summer I made a trip "up North" (230 NM), to my "home place",
took some four hours (yes non stop) - and we was two onboard". An old two
stroke engine, a 532.
My Fox is on a diet, well-, I'm not finished the diagnostic -yet, but seem
to be able to drop some (35-40) lbs.
Cheers.
And a happy New year to everyone!
Don't forget the - "tsunami".
http://www.lazair.com
PS. I liked the picture very much, besides-, I'm using same type of
headset!! :) ...
Torgeir.
-------------
A few certainly do, but not most. For
me, there is no greater pleasure than cruising WAY up high over the
Rockies,
on my way to the Pacific coast islands, with a 40 mph tailwind, with
unlimited visibility through the bubble doors, smooooth engine, 4 gph with
the snow covered mountains spread below me... wanna see what happens to a
person when he does it?
http://www.sportflight.com/uploads/Pilot_SteveZ.jpg
Try that in a 2 stroker (OK I couldn't resist, 2 stokers are fine, just a
different mission)
SteveZ
Calgary
Message 18
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
Thanks Steve for the pic,
Now I'm really in a push to get the fox done. Ok, I just glued the strut
supports on the right wing and welded the new rods in the tail. Couple more
little things to do on the right wing and it will be getting covered. Next
is the left wing, which will get the speedster upgrade and the 13 gallon
tank, while I'm at it, the old glue will be removed and the new hysol put in
it's place. Then the elevator will get cut up and fit with the electric
trim. Phew! and to think I want this plane flying in a couple months...
yep... it will.
steve a
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve
Zakreski
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Engine choices
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski <szakreski@shaw.ca>
Shorty, you're probably scaring the bejeebers out of a half dozen builders
out there.
There is no problem whatsoever installing the NSI on a Kitfox 5,6,7... which
have an extra 200 or 300 lbs gross weight. The NSI is an outstanding
engine, much better than the Rotax for my mission. On the model IV or less,
the NSI clearly limits the utility of the aircraft if you are shy about
going over the 1200 lb GW. My Kitfox IV with the NSI flies wonderfully at
all weights, even an occasional 150 lbs over gross. It has plenty of power
to handle the extra weight. It is much more stable in turbulence then a
Cessna 172. It is an outstanding long distance cruiser through summer and
the Canadian winter, and it regularly crosses the Canadian Rockies at 12,000
asl, and many times at 15,000 asl if the weather is marginal or the winds in
my favour. It has been on several trips exceeding 1500 miles (each way).
It has flown from Calgary to Mount St Helen, over the Sierra Nevada's,
through Death Valley, Las Vegas, Grand Canyon, it been across Canada twice,
been to Oshkosh... I have enough confidence in the NSI that I fly GPS
direct wherever I go, staying away from airports. A lot of my flying is
over remote areas. Mine has the CAP prop, and has been up to 18,000 asl (OK
17,900 asl to stay legal) I have a ton of cabin heat, 60 watts of power
which powers my nav lights, strobes, landing lights, heater fans, two GPS's,
transponder, and COM and tons of amps left over to charge the battery in no
time. I have vacuum pump, AI, DG. It has never failed to start on me
unless some bumpkin (me) left the Master Switch on. Mechanical work is dirt
cheap compared to the Rotax since any local auto machine shop can do most
work. Sparkplugs, oil filters, oil, all from the local store. Fuel:
whatever you want to use, 100LL, regular auto , premium auto . The standby
reliability is MUCH better than my Commander 114 which is laid up with
something or other about 30% of the time. The Kitfox is always ready to go
unless I'm modifying something. I cruise at about 105 mph without wheel
pants which I am in the process of installing. Not many people regularly fly
their kitfoxes much faster than that. A few certainly do, but not most. For
me, there is no greater pleasure than cruising WAY up high over the Rockies,
on my way to the Pacific coast islands, with a 40 mph tailwind, with
unlimited visibility through the bubble doors, smooooth engine, 4 gph with
the snow covered mountains spread below me... wanna see what happens to a
person when he does it?
http://www.sportflight.com/uploads/Pilot_SteveZ.jpg
Try that in a 2 stroker (OK I couldn't resist, 2 stokers are fine, just a
different mission)
SteveZ
Calgary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of shortnaked
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choices
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
not to start a NSI negaticity but
some of theese planes at over 800 lbs empty ?
nsi will crusie about 15 mph faster than a 582
but you canot take anyone with you ?
we talking alot of weight but hey to each his own.
What are the ser 7 like ? can you hang a lycoming on it ?
sportsman got a nice set up too anyone got any experience there?
i guess we should jut all run C 206 amphibs :) butthey get a bit
expensive
Shorty
----- Original Message -----
From: <AlbertaIV@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choices
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 12/29/04 4:37:10 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> morid@northland.lib.mi.us writes:
>
> << As for the last part, "flying circles around him" is a bit of an
> exageration
> in that Mike should have been able to easily cruise at 110 with that CAP
> prop. My S5 which is larger and heavier than the IV, will cr >>
>
> Darrel,
> My apologies. Did not mean to be negative against the NSI or any
other
> engine choice. Was just pointing out a bit of second hand information.
You're
> right, a bit of exaggeration on my part but John Kings 912 at the time was
> faster than Harters NSI (w/cap).
>
> Don Smythe
> N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
>
>
Message 19
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
Oh! by the way, I to have the same headsets as well. I see you are wearing
one of those neat life jackets. I think I am going to have to get me and
the Mrs.. one, since I like flying over water. usually within ..ft.
steve a
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve
Zakreski
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Engine choices
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski <szakreski@shaw.ca>
Shorty, you're probably scaring the bejeebers out of a half dozen builders
out there.
There is no problem whatsoever installing the NSI on a Kitfox 5,6,7... which
have an extra 200 or 300 lbs gross weight. The NSI is an outstanding
engine, much better than the Rotax for my mission. On the model IV or less,
the NSI clearly limits the utility of the aircraft if you are shy about
going over the 1200 lb GW. My Kitfox IV with the NSI flies wonderfully at
all weights, even an occasional 150 lbs over gross. It has plenty of power
to handle the extra weight. It is much more stable in turbulence then a
Cessna 172. It is an outstanding long distance cruiser through summer and
the Canadian winter, and it regularly crosses the Canadian Rockies at 12,000
asl, and many times at 15,000 asl if the weather is marginal or the winds in
my favour. It has been on several trips exceeding 1500 miles (each way).
It has flown from Calgary to Mount St Helen, over the Sierra Nevada's,
through Death Valley, Las Vegas, Grand Canyon, it been across Canada twice,
been to Oshkosh... I have enough confidence in the NSI that I fly GPS
direct wherever I go, staying away from airports. A lot of my flying is
over remote areas. Mine has the CAP prop, and has been up to 18,000 asl (OK
17,900 asl to stay legal) I have a ton of cabin heat, 60 watts of power
which powers my nav lights, strobes, landing lights, heater fans, two GPS's,
transponder, and COM and tons of amps left over to charge the battery in no
time. I have vacuum pump, AI, DG. It has never failed to start on me
unless some bumpkin (me) left the Master Switch on. Mechanical work is dirt
cheap compared to the Rotax since any local auto machine shop can do most
work. Sparkplugs, oil filters, oil, all from the local store. Fuel:
whatever you want to use, 100LL, regular auto , premium auto . The standby
reliability is MUCH better than my Commander 114 which is laid up with
something or other about 30% of the time. The Kitfox is always ready to go
unless I'm modifying something. I cruise at about 105 mph without wheel
pants which I am in the process of installing. Not many people regularly fly
their kitfoxes much faster than that. A few certainly do, but not most. For
me, there is no greater pleasure than cruising WAY up high over the Rockies,
on my way to the Pacific coast islands, with a 40 mph tailwind, with
unlimited visibility through the bubble doors, smooooth engine, 4 gph with
the snow covered mountains spread below me... wanna see what happens to a
person when he does it?
http://www.sportflight.com/uploads/Pilot_SteveZ.jpg
Try that in a 2 stroker (OK I couldn't resist, 2 stokers are fine, just a
different mission)
SteveZ
Calgary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of shortnaked
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choices
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
not to start a NSI negaticity but
some of theese planes at over 800 lbs empty ?
nsi will crusie about 15 mph faster than a 582
but you canot take anyone with you ?
we talking alot of weight but hey to each his own.
What are the ser 7 like ? can you hang a lycoming on it ?
sportsman got a nice set up too anyone got any experience there?
i guess we should jut all run C 206 amphibs :) butthey get a bit
expensive
Shorty
----- Original Message -----
From: <AlbertaIV@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choices
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 12/29/04 4:37:10 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> morid@northland.lib.mi.us writes:
>
> << As for the last part, "flying circles around him" is a bit of an
> exageration
> in that Mike should have been able to easily cruise at 110 with that CAP
> prop. My S5 which is larger and heavier than the IV, will cr >>
>
> Darrel,
> My apologies. Did not mean to be negative against the NSI or any
other
> engine choice. Was just pointing out a bit of second hand information.
You're
> right, a bit of exaggeration on my part but John Kings 912 at the time was
> faster than Harters NSI (w/cap).
>
> Don Smythe
> N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
>
>
Message 20
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski <szakreski@shaw.ca>
steve a
I would be extending that deadline slightly Steve...by at least 6 months.
Covering and painting is a good 4 or 5 months. Then again, if your lucky
enough to be retired or something, then maybe something less, but not 2
months. Not a chance. You have lots of work ahead. Lots of fun... but
lots of work. Don't rush it with deadlines.
I absolutely LOVED building my Kitfox. Then again,....I absolutely LOVE
flying my Kitfox... Then again,...I absolutely Love putsing around the
hangar with my Kitfox... That damn goofy little plane is just so much fun
no matter what you do with it!
SteveZ
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
customtrans@qwest.net
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Engine choices
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
Thanks Steve for the pic,
Now I'm really in a push to get the fox done. Ok, I just glued the strut
supports on the right wing and welded the new rods in the tail. Couple more
little things to do on the right wing and it will be getting covered. Next
is the left wing, which will get the speedster upgrade and the 13 gallon
tank, while I'm at it, the old glue will be removed and the new hysol put in
it's place. Then the elevator will get cut up and fit with the electric
trim. Phew! and to think I want this plane flying in a couple months...
yep... it will.
steve a
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve
Zakreski
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Engine choices
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski <szakreski@shaw.ca>
Shorty, you're probably scaring the bejeebers out of a half dozen builders
out there.
There is no problem whatsoever installing the NSI on a Kitfox 5,6,7... which
have an extra 200 or 300 lbs gross weight. The NSI is an outstanding
engine, much better than the Rotax for my mission. On the model IV or less,
the NSI clearly limits the utility of the aircraft if you are shy about
going over the 1200 lb GW. My Kitfox IV with the NSI flies wonderfully at
all weights, even an occasional 150 lbs over gross. It has plenty of power
to handle the extra weight. It is much more stable in turbulence then a
Cessna 172. It is an outstanding long distance cruiser through summer and
the Canadian winter, and it regularly crosses the Canadian Rockies at 12,000
asl, and many times at 15,000 asl if the weather is marginal or the winds in
my favour. It has been on several trips exceeding 1500 miles (each way).
It has flown from Calgary to Mount St Helen, over the Sierra Nevada's,
through Death Valley, Las Vegas, Grand Canyon, it been across Canada twice,
been to Oshkosh... I have enough confidence in the NSI that I fly GPS
direct wherever I go, staying away from airports. A lot of my flying is
over remote areas. Mine has the CAP prop, and has been up to 18,000 asl (OK
17,900 asl to stay legal) I have a ton of cabin heat, 60 watts of power
which powers my nav lights, strobes, landing lights, heater fans, two GPS's,
transponder, and COM and tons of amps left over to charge the battery in no
time. I have vacuum pump, AI, DG. It has never failed to start on me
unless some bumpkin (me) left the Master Switch on. Mechanical work is dirt
cheap compared to the Rotax since any local auto machine shop can do most
work. Sparkplugs, oil filters, oil, all from the local store. Fuel:
whatever you want to use, 100LL, regular auto , premium auto . The standby
reliability is MUCH better than my Commander 114 which is laid up with
something or other about 30% of the time. The Kitfox is always ready to go
unless I'm modifying something. I cruise at about 105 mph without wheel
pants which I am in the process of installing. Not many people regularly fly
their kitfoxes much faster than that. A few certainly do, but not most. For
me, there is no greater pleasure than cruising WAY up high over the Rockies,
on my way to the Pacific coast islands, with a 40 mph tailwind, with
unlimited visibility through the bubble doors, smooooth engine, 4 gph with
the snow covered mountains spread below me... wanna see what happens to a
person when he does it?
http://www.sportflight.com/uploads/Pilot_SteveZ.jpg
Try that in a 2 stroker (OK I couldn't resist, 2 stokers are fine, just a
different mission)
SteveZ
Calgary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of shortnaked
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choices
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
not to start a NSI negaticity but
some of theese planes at over 800 lbs empty ?
nsi will crusie about 15 mph faster than a 582
but you canot take anyone with you ?
we talking alot of weight but hey to each his own.
What are the ser 7 like ? can you hang a lycoming on it ?
sportsman got a nice set up too anyone got any experience there?
i guess we should jut all run C 206 amphibs :) butthey get a bit
expensive
Shorty
----- Original Message -----
From: <AlbertaIV@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choices
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 12/29/04 4:37:10 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> morid@northland.lib.mi.us writes:
>
> << As for the last part, "flying circles around him" is a bit of an
> exageration
> in that Mike should have been able to easily cruise at 110 with that CAP
> prop. My S5 which is larger and heavier than the IV, will cr >>
>
> Darrel,
> My apologies. Did not mean to be negative against the NSI or any
other
> engine choice. Was just pointing out a bit of second hand information.
You're
> right, a bit of exaggeration on my part but John Kings 912 at the time was
> faster than Harters NSI (w/cap).
>
> Don Smythe
> N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
>
>
Message 21
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|
-0800
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: roncarolnikko@webtv.net (Ron Schick)
Steve how do you plan to remove the old glue? Maybe like a dentist? I
need to replace a few ribs also and it might be worth it to reglue all
of mine with Hysol as the prior builder was possibly sniffing it. At
least then it would have a good chance in my "experiment". I may set my
gross at 1320 to comply with sport regs and still be legal with a two
people and a 4stroke. Ron
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