Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:11 AM - SKYSTAR (FlyCyOZ@aol.com)
2. 12:23 AM - Re: SKYSTAR (Don Pearsall)
3. 12:27 AM - Re: SKYSTAR (FlyCyOZ@aol.com)
4. 03:24 AM - CAP prop (LeRoy staley)
5. 04:49 AM - Re: Engine choices (shortnaked)
6. 05:47 AM - (Lmar)
7. 07:38 AM - Re: Engine choices -0800 (customtrans@qwest.net)
8. 07:59 AM - Re: Engine choices (customtrans@qwest.net)
9. 08:05 AM - More pictures please Re: Engine choices (Harris, Robert)
10. 11:02 AM - Re: Engine choices -0800 (kurt schrader)
11. 11:02 AM - Re: Engine choices (Lowell Fitt)
12. 11:43 AM - Re: Engine choices -0800/ 3M Epolxy (Clint Bazzill)
13. 11:54 AM - Re: Engine choices -0800 (customtrans@qwest.net)
14. 11:59 AM - Re: Engine choices -0800/ 3M Epolxy (customtrans@qwest.net)
15. 12:39 PM - Re: Engine choices/ Read the story (Clint Bazzill)
16. 01:09 PM - Re: Engine choices/ I love my .... but (Aerobatics@aol.com)
17. 01:13 PM - Re: Engine choices/ Read the story (Howard Firm)
18. 03:14 PM - Re: Engine choices/ I love my .... but (shortnaked)
19. 03:36 PM - Re: Engine choices/ Read the story (Clint Bazzill)
20. 03:37 PM - Re: Engine choices/ I love my .... but (Clint Bazzill)
21. 04:05 PM - Stuck Chokes on 912S - A report (Randy Daughenbaugh)
22. 04:11 PM - Re: Engine choices/ Read the story (Cudnohufsky's)
23. 05:04 PM - Re: Engine choices/ Read the story (Clint Bazzill)
24. 05:06 PM - Re: Engine choices -0800 (Jerry Liles)
25. 05:10 PM - Re: CAP prop (Rick)
26. 05:27 PM - List Tone (Fox5flyer)
27. 05:30 PM - Fw: List Tone (Fox5flyer)
28. 05:41 PM - Re: List Tone (shortnaked)
29. 05:42 PM - Re: Fw: List Tone (shortnaked)
30. 05:47 PM - Re: List Tone (Rick)
31. 05:57 PM - Re: More pictures please Re: Engine choices (roncarolnikko@webtv.net (Ron Schick))
Message 1
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: FlyCyOZ@aol.com
G'Day ALL
I just got an order that I placed with Dave Morris at SS on the 23rd of DEC
-- arrived today - the 30th. I consider that EXCELLENT service considering I
live in Australia.
Thanks Dave!!!!!!
cy
Message 2
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
Wow, that is fast service. They must really like you! Do you have
connections in the air cargo business?
Don Pearsall
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of FlyCyOZ@aol.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: SKYSTAR
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: FlyCyOZ@aol.com
G'Day ALL
I just got an order that I placed with Dave Morris at SS on the 23rd of DEC
-- arrived today - the 30th. I consider that EXCELLENT service considering
I
live in Australia.
Thanks Dave!!!!!!
cy
Message 3
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: FlyCyOZ@aol.com
In a message dated 30/12/2004 7:24:10 PM AUS Eastern Standard Time,
donpearsall@comcast.net writes:
> Wow, that is fast service. They must really like you! Do you have
> connections in the air cargo business?
>
G'Day Don,
It came US Mail and Australia Post...........that makes it even more
unbelievable and it was a 4 day weekend for the postal service here.
cy
Message 4
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: LeRoy staley <itis50@yahoo.com>
Friend of mine has a 4 with a nsi and the cap, which
takes it out of the sport pilot range. He has a buyer
that wants the plane but only if it qualifies for
this. Question is this: he is thinking about selling
the prop set up for my 5 which had one installed
earlier. Original owner took it off. How much does it
improve performance? And what would be a fair price to
trade him my ivo ground adj and install his prop on my
subaru? Dont think it would be much to install just
unbolt the flange and hook up the elect. which it
already had at one time.
LeRoy
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Engine choices |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
Steve , not meaning to scare anoyone.
What kinda climb you get ?
And what is take off distance
and what is TO over 50 foot obstacle?
I was out today in over 12 inches of heavy wet snow took about 200 feet with
20 d flaps to get loose
on touchdown a nice float and feeling less but as speed creep under 25
the slush began to fly and the throttle went in
stick came back and powered on through it .
dat what i like :)
But for nsi i have no experience with one so i can not comment on anything
but the extra weight.
but you did a nice job on commenting the attributes.
Shorty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Zakreski" <szakreski@shaw.ca>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Engine choices
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski <szakreski@shaw.ca>
>
> steve a
>
> I would be extending that deadline slightly Steve...by at least 6 months.
> Covering and painting is a good 4 or 5 months. Then again, if your lucky
> enough to be retired or something, then maybe something less, but not 2
> months. Not a chance. You have lots of work ahead. Lots of fun... but
> lots of work. Don't rush it with deadlines.
>
> I absolutely LOVED building my Kitfox. Then again,....I absolutely LOVE
> flying my Kitfox... Then again,...I absolutely Love putsing around the
> hangar with my Kitfox... That damn goofy little plane is just so much
fun
> no matter what you do with it!
>
> SteveZ
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> customtrans@qwest.net
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Engine choices
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
>
> Thanks Steve for the pic,
> Now I'm really in a push to get the fox done. Ok, I just glued the strut
> supports on the right wing and welded the new rods in the tail. Couple
more
> little things to do on the right wing and it will be getting covered.
Next
> is the left wing, which will get the speedster upgrade and the 13 gallon
> tank, while I'm at it, the old glue will be removed and the new hysol put
in
> it's place. Then the elevator will get cut up and fit with the electric
> trim. Phew! and to think I want this plane flying in a couple months...
> yep... it will.
>
> steve a
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve
> Zakreski
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Engine choices
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski <szakreski@shaw.ca>
>
> Shorty, you're probably scaring the bejeebers out of a half dozen builders
> out there.
>
> There is no problem whatsoever installing the NSI on a Kitfox 5,6,7...
which
> have an extra 200 or 300 lbs gross weight. The NSI is an outstanding
> engine, much better than the Rotax for my mission. On the model IV or
less,
> the NSI clearly limits the utility of the aircraft if you are shy about
> going over the 1200 lb GW. My Kitfox IV with the NSI flies wonderfully at
> all weights, even an occasional 150 lbs over gross. It has plenty of power
> to handle the extra weight. It is much more stable in turbulence then a
> Cessna 172. It is an outstanding long distance cruiser through summer and
> the Canadian winter, and it regularly crosses the Canadian Rockies at
12,000
> asl, and many times at 15,000 asl if the weather is marginal or the winds
in
> my favour. It has been on several trips exceeding 1500 miles (each way).
> It has flown from Calgary to Mount St Helen, over the Sierra Nevada's,
> through Death Valley, Las Vegas, Grand Canyon, it been across Canada
twice,
> been to Oshkosh... I have enough confidence in the NSI that I fly GPS
> direct wherever I go, staying away from airports. A lot of my flying is
> over remote areas. Mine has the CAP prop, and has been up to 18,000 asl
(OK
> 17,900 asl to stay legal) I have a ton of cabin heat, 60 watts of power
> which powers my nav lights, strobes, landing lights, heater fans, two
GPS's,
> transponder, and COM and tons of amps left over to charge the battery in
no
> time. I have vacuum pump, AI, DG. It has never failed to start on me
> unless some bumpkin (me) left the Master Switch on. Mechanical work is
dirt
> cheap compared to the Rotax since any local auto machine shop can do most
> work. Sparkplugs, oil filters, oil, all from the local store. Fuel:
> whatever you want to use, 100LL, regular auto , premium auto . The
standby
> reliability is MUCH better than my Commander 114 which is laid up with
> something or other about 30% of the time. The Kitfox is always ready to
go
> unless I'm modifying something. I cruise at about 105 mph without wheel
> pants which I am in the process of installing. Not many people regularly
fly
> their kitfoxes much faster than that. A few certainly do, but not most.
For
> me, there is no greater pleasure than cruising WAY up high over the
Rockies,
> on my way to the Pacific coast islands, with a 40 mph tailwind, with
> unlimited visibility through the bubble doors, smooooth engine, 4 gph with
> the snow covered mountains spread below me... wanna see what happens to a
> person when he does it?
> http://www.sportflight.com/uploads/Pilot_SteveZ.jpg
>
> Try that in a 2 stroker (OK I couldn't resist, 2 stokers are fine, just a
> different mission)
>
> SteveZ
> Calgary
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of shortnaked
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choices
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
>
> not to start a NSI negaticity but
> some of theese planes at over 800 lbs empty ?
>
> nsi will crusie about 15 mph faster than a 582
>
> but you canot take anyone with you ?
> we talking alot of weight but hey to each his own.
>
> What are the ser 7 like ? can you hang a lycoming on it ?
>
> sportsman got a nice set up too anyone got any experience there?
>
> i guess we should jut all run C 206 amphibs :) butthey get a bit
> expensive
>
> Shorty
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <AlbertaIV@aol.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choices
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
> >
> > In a message dated 12/29/04 4:37:10 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> > morid@northland.lib.mi.us writes:
> >
> > << As for the last part, "flying circles around him" is a bit of an
> > exageration
> > in that Mike should have been able to easily cruise at 110 with that
CAP
> > prop. My S5 which is larger and heavier than the IV, will cr >>
> >
> > Darrel,
> > My apologies. Did not mean to be negative against the NSI or any
> other
> > engine choice. Was just pointing out a bit of second hand information.
> You're
> > right, a bit of exaggeration on my part but John Kings 912 at the time
was
> > faster than Harters NSI (w/cap).
> >
> > Don Smythe
> > N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
> >
> >
>
>
Message 6
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lmar <my93avid@yahoo.com>
Torgeir,
That's quite a feat ! Where did you find 35-40 lbs to shed? Ops, I did take
you literal that it was the airplane that lost the weight, not the left seat;
is that correct? If so where can we look to loose aircraft weight?
Larry
---------------------------------
Message 7
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| Subject: | Engine choices -0800 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
Ron,
The old glue was 3M glue. When I bungled the right wing, I set out to reduce
my cost and ended up reusing 4 ribs, the false ribs and 3 of the bars, even
the strut supports. How? The good ol heat gun. The one I have heats to
900 degrees f. soon as the glue got hot it either crumbled off or it got
soft and came right off, using a flat blade screwdriver. The trickier
supports took a little persuasion, but popped right off as well. Seeing this
happen with the glue on the right wing has me wanting to replace the glue on
the left wing. Hope this helps. Now I did do a test with the Hysol9460 and
found that I could not heat it up and get it to respond like the 3M stuff.
steve a
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ron Schick
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Engine choices -0800
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: roncarolnikko@webtv.net (Ron Schick)
Steve how do you plan to remove the old glue? Maybe like a dentist? I
need to replace a few ribs also and it might be worth it to reglue all
of mine with Hysol as the prior builder was possibly sniffing it. At
least then it would have a good chance in my "experiment". I may set my
gross at 1320 to comply with sport regs and still be legal with a two
people and a 4stroke. Ron
Message 8
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
Steve,
I do spend a lot of time on the plane. It is in my shop down in the end
stall. I work fast and efficiently. My son is also helping me. I see no
trouble in finishing the covering in a couple months, maybe sooner. I built
the right wing in a week and had it set and ready to go. I don't think the
covering will be that difficult. One thing you need to realize is one: I
been flying and building remote airplanes for 12 years, yes this does make a
difference. Last year I built a non arf(almost ready to fly) airplane with
retracts and covering in 30 days, my best flying remote yet. I see the full
scale no different than the full scale except I'm in the full scale. The
alignments are the same and I used the same procedures to align the full
scale as I used on model airplanes. number two: I rebuild transmission.
This has got to be the hardest thing to do on a car. I've been doing them
for over 25 years. Lastly, I'm the boss, if I want to work on the plane,
nobody(except the wife) can tell me I can't. So there is my time to work on
it. Last night I worked for 2 hours on it, nice and warm and toasty with
every type of tool I need, way cool. I plan on buying a HVLP gun, thinking
of the Sata gun, they came out with an economy gun that looks very
interesting. I'm also working on a RV7, I finished the tail in less than
100 hours, I had that inspected by an A&P and he really liked the work.
Same with the Fox, he likes the worked I've done on it also. Don't worry, I
hear your concern, if I don't have it done in a couple months, than 3
months. Like you said, it needs to be right.
steve a
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve
Zakreski
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Engine choices
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski <szakreski@shaw.ca>
steve a
I would be extending that deadline slightly Steve...by at least 6 months.
Covering and painting is a good 4 or 5 months. Then again, if your lucky
enough to be retired or something, then maybe something less, but not 2
months. Not a chance. You have lots of work ahead. Lots of fun... but
lots of work. Don't rush it with deadlines.
I absolutely LOVED building my Kitfox. Then again,....I absolutely LOVE
flying my Kitfox... Then again,...I absolutely Love putsing around the
hangar with my Kitfox... That damn goofy little plane is just so much fun
no matter what you do with it!
SteveZ
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
customtrans@qwest.net
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Engine choices
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
Thanks Steve for the pic,
Now I'm really in a push to get the fox done. Ok, I just glued the strut
supports on the right wing and welded the new rods in the tail. Couple more
little things to do on the right wing and it will be getting covered. Next
is the left wing, which will get the speedster upgrade and the 13 gallon
tank, while I'm at it, the old glue will be removed and the new hysol put in
it's place. Then the elevator will get cut up and fit with the electric
trim. Phew! and to think I want this plane flying in a couple months...
yep... it will.
steve a
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve
Zakreski
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Engine choices
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski <szakreski@shaw.ca>
Shorty, you're probably scaring the bejeebers out of a half dozen builders
out there.
There is no problem whatsoever installing the NSI on a Kitfox 5,6,7... which
have an extra 200 or 300 lbs gross weight. The NSI is an outstanding
engine, much better than the Rotax for my mission. On the model IV or less,
the NSI clearly limits the utility of the aircraft if you are shy about
going over the 1200 lb GW. My Kitfox IV with the NSI flies wonderfully at
all weights, even an occasional 150 lbs over gross. It has plenty of power
to handle the extra weight. It is much more stable in turbulence then a
Cessna 172. It is an outstanding long distance cruiser through summer and
the Canadian winter, and it regularly crosses the Canadian Rockies at 12,000
asl, and many times at 15,000 asl if the weather is marginal or the winds in
my favour. It has been on several trips exceeding 1500 miles (each way).
It has flown from Calgary to Mount St Helen, over the Sierra Nevada's,
through Death Valley, Las Vegas, Grand Canyon, it been across Canada twice,
been to Oshkosh... I have enough confidence in the NSI that I fly GPS
direct wherever I go, staying away from airports. A lot of my flying is
over remote areas. Mine has the CAP prop, and has been up to 18,000 asl (OK
17,900 asl to stay legal) I have a ton of cabin heat, 60 watts of power
which powers my nav lights, strobes, landing lights, heater fans, two GPS's,
transponder, and COM and tons of amps left over to charge the battery in no
time. I have vacuum pump, AI, DG. It has never failed to start on me
unless some bumpkin (me) left the Master Switch on. Mechanical work is dirt
cheap compared to the Rotax since any local auto machine shop can do most
work. Sparkplugs, oil filters, oil, all from the local store. Fuel:
whatever you want to use, 100LL, regular auto , premium auto . The standby
reliability is MUCH better than my Commander 114 which is laid up with
something or other about 30% of the time. The Kitfox is always ready to go
unless I'm modifying something. I cruise at about 105 mph without wheel
pants which I am in the process of installing. Not many people regularly fly
their kitfoxes much faster than that. A few certainly do, but not most. For
me, there is no greater pleasure than cruising WAY up high over the Rockies,
on my way to the Pacific coast islands, with a 40 mph tailwind, with
unlimited visibility through the bubble doors, smooooth engine, 4 gph with
the snow covered mountains spread below me... wanna see what happens to a
person when he does it?
http://www.sportflight.com/uploads/Pilot_SteveZ.jpg
Try that in a 2 stroker (OK I couldn't resist, 2 stokers are fine, just a
different mission)
SteveZ
Calgary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of shortnaked
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choices
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
not to start a NSI negaticity but
some of theese planes at over 800 lbs empty ?
nsi will crusie about 15 mph faster than a 582
but you canot take anyone with you ?
we talking alot of weight but hey to each his own.
What are the ser 7 like ? can you hang a lycoming on it ?
sportsman got a nice set up too anyone got any experience there?
i guess we should jut all run C 206 amphibs :) butthey get a bit
expensive
Shorty
----- Original Message -----
From: <AlbertaIV@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choices
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 12/29/04 4:37:10 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> morid@northland.lib.mi.us writes:
>
> << As for the last part, "flying circles around him" is a bit of an
> exageration
> in that Mike should have been able to easily cruise at 110 with that CAP
> prop. My S5 which is larger and heavier than the IV, will cr >>
>
> Darrel,
> My apologies. Did not mean to be negative against the NSI or any
other
> engine choice. Was just pointing out a bit of second hand information.
You're
> right, a bit of exaggeration on my part but John Kings 912 at the time was
> faster than Harters NSI (w/cap).
>
> Don Smythe
> N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
>
>
Message 9
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
Nice picture Steve,
Can you send me some more pictures of the Rockies behind you either to the
list or Robert_harris@intuit.com
Also what kind of oxygen system do you recommend and how much do they run?
Robert
http://www.sportflight.com/uploads/Pilot_SteveZ.jpg
Message 10
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| Subject: | Engine choices -0800 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Hi Steve,
Aluminum melts around 1100 f. Maybe some of our metal
experts can address this better, but I think if you
get anywhere near 900 degrees on even a tiny part of
the spar, you are creating stress risers. Not good.
You need to keep track of how hot you get the metal,
IMHO.
Kurt S.
--- customtrans@qwest.net wrote:
> Ron,
>
> The old glue was 3M glue. When I bungled the right
> wing, I set out to reduce
> my cost and ended up reusing 4 ribs, the false ribs
> and 3 of the bars, even
> the strut supports. How? The good ol heat gun.
> The one I have heats to
> 900 degrees f........
>
> steve a
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Engine choices |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
Hi Steve and all.
I guess I'll chime in her to defend and recommend the truly best engine for
a Kitfox - the Rotax 912 in all it's iterations.
I have a chubby (704 lbs.) Model IV with a 912UL. I can meet or exceed all
Steve's figures except in amperage and the need? to fly over gross - I have
never done that, even with my wife on board, luggage for the three day stay
at the SS fly-in and full fuel. I have the standard 20? amp alternator and
have never felt the need for more. My only luxury? instrument is a turn
coordinator. I explain that my Kitfox is akin to a dirt bike, not a Gull
Wing. I also have the fail safe and simple ground adjustable Warp
propeller.
I can cruise at 114 MPH all day. I averaged 2.7 gph for the first three
years of flying. Flew three hours form Cameron Park, CA to Rancho Murietta
and then to Winnemucca, NV in a flight of six (not at 114 mph, though) using
7.7 gallons. I still draw a crowd at the fuel pump when group flying after
that one.
Have flown the Idaho Back Country 5 times and to Oshkosh once, from the
Sacramento, CA area. Have been above 12,000 ft, but honestly don't know the
service ceiling. Once climbed 4,400 ft, from Minden, NV (4,700 ft) to cross
a peak 7 miles to the West (9,100 ft.) 85 OAT along side a friend in
another Model IV - Rotax 912 UL, just to se if we could do it. At least 50%
of my 670 hours have been cross country with the only problem - a little
corrosion on the starter solenoid spade connector to the switch and one
stuck valve that self corrected - attributed by Rotax to the use of 100LL.
Engine maintenance? All I have ever done is regular oil change and an annual
verification of Carburetor synchronization. Exception - the Stator
changeout which was the result of a timely Service Bulletin by Rotax, using
FREE parts supplied by Rotax and FREE loan of tools - took 4 hours.
To Each his own, I guess.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Zakreski" <szakreski@shaw.ca>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Engine choices
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski <szakreski@shaw.ca>
>
> Shorty, you're probably scaring the bejeebers out of a half dozen builders
> out there.
>
> There is no problem whatsoever installing the NSI on a Kitfox 5,6,7...
which
> have an extra 200 or 300 lbs gross weight. The NSI is an outstanding
> engine, much better than the Rotax for my mission. On the model IV or
less,
> the NSI clearly limits the utility of the aircraft if you are shy about
> going over the 1200 lb GW. My Kitfox IV with the NSI flies wonderfully at
> all weights, even an occasional 150 lbs over gross. It has plenty of power
> to handle the extra weight. It is much more stable in turbulence then a
> Cessna 172. It is an outstanding long distance cruiser through summer and
> the Canadian winter, and it regularly crosses the Canadian Rockies at
12,000
> asl, and many times at 15,000 asl if the weather is marginal or the winds
in
> my favour. It has been on several trips exceeding 1500 miles (each way).
> It has flown from Calgary to Mount St Helen, over the Sierra Nevada's,
> through Death Valley, Las Vegas, Grand Canyon, it been across Canada
twice,
> been to Oshkosh... I have enough confidence in the NSI that I fly GPS
> direct wherever I go, staying away from airports. A lot of my flying is
> over remote areas. Mine has the CAP prop, and has been up to 18,000 asl
(OK
> 17,900 asl to stay legal) I have a ton of cabin heat, 60 watts of power
> which powers my nav lights, strobes, landing lights, heater fans, two
GPS's,
> transponder, and COM and tons of amps left over to charge the battery in
no
> time. I have vacuum pump, AI, DG. It has never failed to start on me
> unless some bumpkin (me) left the Master Switch on. Mechanical work is
dirt
> cheap compared to the Rotax since any local auto machine shop can do most
> work. Sparkplugs, oil filters, oil, all from the local store. Fuel:
> whatever you want to use, 100LL, regular auto , premium auto . The
standby
> reliability is MUCH better than my Commander 114 which is laid up with
> something or other about 30% of the time. The Kitfox is always ready to
go
> unless I'm modifying something. I cruise at about 105 mph without wheel
> pants which I am in the process of installing. Not many people regularly
fly
> their kitfoxes much faster than that. A few certainly do, but not most.
For
> me, there is no greater pleasure than cruising WAY up high over the
Rockies,
> on my way to the Pacific coast islands, with a 40 mph tailwind, with
> unlimited visibility through the bubble doors, smooooth engine, 4 gph with
> the snow covered mountains spread below me... wanna see what happens to a
> person when he does it?
> http://www.sportflight.com/uploads/Pilot_SteveZ.jpg
>
> Try that in a 2 stroker (OK I couldn't resist, 2 stokers are fine, just a
> different mission)
>
> SteveZ
> Calgary
Message 12
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| Subject: | Engine choices -0800/ 3M Epolxy |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clint Bazzill" <clint_bazzill@hotmail.com>
The 3M epoxy is great stuff. I worked in Lockheed Missile and Space Co
Research Labs for 38 years. We used 3M epoxy all the time for bonding
different temp sensors for cryogenics. We used 3M epoxy on copper and other
materials and regulary submerge them in liquid helium. That was at a temp
of 4.3 Deg Kelvin. Thats 4.3 degrees above absolute zero. We rarely had a
seperation, just make sure surface you bond to is clean.
A co worker had a split in his truck gas tank. He cleaned it and applied 3M
expoxy. 20 years later, no leaks. You can remove it by applying heat.
Great stuff. Clint
Message 13
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| Subject: | Engine choices -0800 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
Kurt,
you definately don't want to hold the heat gun to the glue, kind of move it
around until you see the section start to react, I usually take a
screwdriver and push on the glue and hold the heat to it until it softens
and then remove the heat. You never hold heat to the spot and not move it,
you know move it around. If you took a hair dryer to you hair and hold it
in one spot you can burn you hair not to mention your scalp.
steve a
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kurt
schrader
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Engine choices -0800
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Hi Steve,
Aluminum melts around 1100 f. Maybe some of our metal
experts can address this better, but I think if you
get anywhere near 900 degrees on even a tiny part of
the spar, you are creating stress risers. Not good.
You need to keep track of how hot you get the metal,
IMHO.
Kurt S.
--- customtrans@qwest.net wrote:
> Ron,
>
> The old glue was 3M glue. When I bungled the right
> wing, I set out to reduce
> my cost and ended up reusing 4 ribs, the false ribs
> and 3 of the bars, even
> the strut supports. How? The good ol heat gun.
> The one I have heats to
> 900 degrees f........
>
> steve a
Message 14
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| Subject: | Engine choices -0800/ 3M Epolxy |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
Clint,
I never said the 3M wasn't good, very possible mine was not put on right,
wrong temps or something. There is something wrong with my 3M epoxy on my
plane, so it gets replaced.
steve a
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Clint
Bazzill
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Engine choices -0800/ 3M Epolxy
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clint Bazzill"
<clint_bazzill@hotmail.com>
The 3M epoxy is great stuff. I worked in Lockheed Missile and Space Co
Research Labs for 38 years. We used 3M epoxy all the time for bonding
different temp sensors for cryogenics. We used 3M epoxy on copper and other
materials and regulary submerge them in liquid helium. That was at a temp
of 4.3 Deg Kelvin. Thats 4.3 degrees above absolute zero. We rarely had a
seperation, just make sure surface you bond to is clean.
A co worker had a split in his truck gas tank. He cleaned it and applied 3M
expoxy. 20 years later, no leaks. You can remove it by applying heat.
Great stuff. Clint
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Engine choices/ Read the story |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clint Bazzill" <clint_bazzill@hotmail.com>
Thanks Lowell for the good info. I also am flying behind a Rotax 912 only
its the S version. This combination for a Kitfix cannot be beat. I have
flown in planes with the Jabiru, they are nice engines but lack a redrive
which makes them poor in climb performance.
Read the story in Sport Aviation Sept 2004 about a NSI installed in a Model
5. Problems that he had and results. Very Very interesting reading, a must
for new engine installations in Kitfoxes. this article was written before
the 912ULS was introduced.
Its in the Nuts & Bolts Technical counselor. Called Ulterior Motors by Ken
Ibold.
A closing quote "The airplane is now 150 pounds lighter, which translates
directly into a higher useful load. The smaller engines burns 5.7 gph,
further adding to the increase in payload for short trips. And the kicker:
The more efficient engine/prop/airframe combination yielded and airplane 25
to 30 mph faster than before."
140 Hp Subaru turbo vrs Rotax 914.
A must read. Clint
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Engine choices/ I love my .... but |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Aerobatics@aol.com
I love my KF 2 on a 582.... light, simple, cheap, reliable...
But my fantasy plane is a KF IV full wing on a 912 S :-)
Dave
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Engine choices/ Read the story |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Howard Firm" <pianome2@mchsi.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clint Bazzill" <clint_bazzill@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choices/ Read the story
> Read the story in Sport Aviation Sept 2004 about a NSI installed in a
Model
> 5. Problems that he had and results. Very Very interesting reading, a
must
> for new engine installations in Kitfoxes. this article was written before
> the 912ULS was introduced.
>
> Its in the Nuts & Bolts Technical counselor. Called Ulterior Motors by
Ken
> Ibold.
Clint, Would it be possible for you to scan that article and e-mail it to
me....I have heard about it but I don't get Sport Aviation......It is
referring about the engine that I now have in my -5.
Thanks!!
Howard Firm
508 12th St. South
Virginia MN 55792
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Engine choices/ I love my .... but |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
Dave,
Well said !!
Shorty
btw any got NSI performance data ?
I curious on the comparison NSI vs 912 vs 582
any creative folks out there?
----- Original Message -----
From: <Aerobatics@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choices/ I love my .... but
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Aerobatics@aol.com
>
> I love my KF 2 on a 582.... light, simple, cheap, reliable...
>
> But my fantasy plane is a KF IV full wing on a 912 S :-)
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Engine choices/ Read the story |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clint Bazzill" <clint_bazzill@hotmail.com>
We try to get it to you later today. My daughter is using the computer now,
she is here for a few days from Minn. Clint
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Engine choices/ I love my .... but |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clint Bazzill" <clint_bazzill@hotmail.com>
Good choice, had a 912UL and then found out about the S. Sold my old one
and love,love,love the 912ULS. Clint
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | Stuck Chokes on 912S - A report |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
I had asked for help with the chokes sticking on both carbs on a 912S on my
newly flying Series 5/7. It was the plates in the carbs that was sticking.
It took pliers to break them loose, but then they were fine for the day's
flying. The control cables move smoothly.
Fred had suggested that I may be leaching something from the new tanks. I
use car gas.
When I pulled the plate off the carbs, there was a yellow/brown varnish on
the plates. Gas didn't cut it, but it came right off with a little MEK.
There was also some black gummy stuff that I decided was probably some kind
of lubricant on the "O" rings. I cleaned them all up and put it back
together and then drained all the fuel and started over with fresh fuel. I
will have to see if this solves the problem.
I cleaned the tanks a lot with water and dried them out. If I had it to do
over, I would finish with a couple of washes with acetone or MEK.
Note: The chokes on the two carbs are mirror images of each other. There
is also a possibility of putting them back on 180 degrees out of position.
I will probably be back complaining if this doesn't solve the problem.
Randy - waiting for the next nice day!
.
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Engine choices/ Read the story |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cudnohufsky's" <7suds@chartermi.net>
Group,
What is the difference between the 912UL and the ULS?
Lloyd
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clint Bazzill" <clint_bazzill@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choices/ Read the story
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clint Bazzill"
> <clint_bazzill@hotmail.com>
>
> Thanks Lowell for the good info. I also am flying behind a Rotax 912 only
> its the S version. This combination for a Kitfix cannot be beat. I have
> flown in planes with the Jabiru, they are nice engines but lack a redrive
> which makes them poor in climb performance.
>
> Read the story in Sport Aviation Sept 2004 about a NSI installed in a
> Model
> 5. Problems that he had and results. Very Very interesting reading, a
> must
> for new engine installations in Kitfoxes. this article was written before
> the 912ULS was introduced.
>
> Its in the Nuts & Bolts Technical counselor. Called Ulterior Motors by
> Ken
> Ibold.
>
> A closing quote "The airplane is now 150 pounds lighter, which translates
> directly into a higher useful load. The smaller engines burns 5.7 gph,
> further adding to the increase in payload for short trips. And the
> kicker:
> The more efficient engine/prop/airframe combination yielded and airplane
> 25
> to 30 mph faster than before."
>
> 140 Hp Subaru turbo vrs Rotax 914.
>
> A must read. Clint
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Engine choices/ Read the story |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clint Bazzill" <clint_bazzill@hotmail.com>
Rotax increased the displacement and compression ratio and beefed up engine.
912UL=80 Hp 912ULS=100 HP. Weight gain=3 lb. Also a different gear
reduction. A slight increase in spacing from front and rear engine mounts.
About 3/16 inch
Clint
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Engine choices -0800 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles <wliles@bayou.com>
I would also think since the ribs are wood that they would begin to
discolor or char before you reached a critical temperature for the
aluminum. Provides a built in warning device. You could get a heat
crayon of an appropriate temp and mark the spar and watch it as you
heated. As long as the mark doesn't melt everything is OK.
Jerry Liles
customtrans@qwest.net wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
>
>Kurt,
>you definately don't want to hold the heat gun to the glue, kind of move it
>around until you see the section start to react, I usually take a
>screwdriver and push on the glue and hold the heat to it until it softens
>and then remove the heat. You never hold heat to the spot and not move it,
>you know move it around. If you took a hair dryer to you hair and hold it
>in one spot you can burn you hair not to mention your scalp.
>
>
>steve a
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kurt
>schrader
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Engine choices -0800
>
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
><smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
>Hi Steve,
>
>Aluminum melts around 1100 f. Maybe some of our metal
>experts can address this better, but I think if you
>get anywhere near 900 degrees on even a tiny part of
>the spar, you are creating stress risers. Not good.
>You need to keep track of how hot you get the metal,
>IMHO.
>
>Kurt S.
>
>--- customtrans@qwest.net wrote:
>
>
>
>>Ron,
>>
>>The old glue was 3M glue. When I bungled the right
>>wing, I set out to reduce
>>my cost and ended up reusing 4 ribs, the false ribs
>>and 3 of the bars, even
>>the strut supports. How? The good ol heat gun.
>>The one I have heats to
>>900 degrees f........
>>
>>steve a
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 25
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
Don't think the aircraft can be re categorized once it is complete. If its
not that is a different issue. Major increase in performance and economy.
You pick the pitch to suit power requirements, cruise power ect. Don't know
what I would do with a fixed pitch, spoiled already.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of LeRoy staley
Subject: Kitfox-List: CAP prop
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: LeRoy staley <itis50@yahoo.com>
Friend of mine has a 4 with a nsi and the cap ....snip
Message 26
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Hi Don. I've been upstate and just got homeand I'm writing this offlist.
No apology necessary, but thanks anyway. My complaint was aimed more at the
tone of the list which, in my perception, seems to have changed over the
years. There were those who were eager to encourage and help others by
offering their personal Kitfox experiences and we were like a big
enthusiastic family, regardless of what combination engine/airframe we
chose. Recently there was a guy on the list who was putting a VW in his
Fox. Instead of helpful encouragement, what I observed was anecdotal
negativism and he was forced into defending his decision. Not a good thing.
This list, like any big family will have the occasional minor disagreements
and squabbles that are to be expected and are usually short lived. That's
normal. Most of our list members are great and contribute in a helpful way.
However, what I've observed evolving is an increasing tone of cliquishness,
fragmentation, high minded fingerpointers, and the occasional pot stirrer,
especially the latter who offer nothing other than to see if they can
stimulate some sort of reaction or chaos and IMO the are the worst threat to
the harmony of the list. This activity only succeeds in using up tons of
list time achieving nothing meaningful, yet creates a depressing air of
defensiveness and hard feelings that discourages many of our members from
expressing themselves. Sometimes trying to keep the peace gets tiring.
Then again, maybe I've just been on this list too long, gotten too
sensitive, and it's time for me to move on.
Best regards Don,
Darrel
freezing rain in NE Michigan
>
> Darrel,
> My apologies. Did not mean to be negative against the NSI or any
other
> engine choice. Was just pointing out a bit of second hand information.
You're
> right, a bit of exaggeration on my part but John Kings 912 at the time was
> faster than Harters NSI (w/cap).
> Don Smythe
Message 27
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Oops. My message was intended to be sent privately to Don. My sincere
apologies to the list.
Darrel Morisse
List Janitor
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Subject: List Tone
> Hi Don. I've been upstate and just got homeand I'm writing this offlist.
> No apology necessary, but thanks anyway. My complaint was aimed more at
the...
Message 28
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
Darrell sorry to read that you are moving on .
Everyones honesty is what keeps a good list going .
Shorty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Subject: Kitfox-List: List Tone
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
>
> Hi Don. I've been upstate and just got homeand I'm writing this offlist.
> No apology necessary, but thanks anyway. My complaint was aimed more at
the
> tone of the list which, in my perception, seems to have changed over the
> years. There were those who were eager to encourage and help others by
> offering their personal Kitfox experiences and we were like a big
> enthusiastic family, regardless of what combination engine/airframe we
> chose. Recently there was a guy on the list who was putting a VW in his
> Fox. Instead of helpful encouragement, what I observed was anecdotal
> negativism and he was forced into defending his decision. Not a good
thing.
> This list, like any big family will have the occasional minor
disagreements
> and squabbles that are to be expected and are usually short lived. That's
> normal. Most of our list members are great and contribute in a helpful
way.
> However, what I've observed evolving is an increasing tone of
cliquishness,
> fragmentation, high minded fingerpointers, and the occasional pot stirrer,
> especially the latter who offer nothing other than to see if they can
> stimulate some sort of reaction or chaos and IMO the are the worst threat
to
> the harmony of the list. This activity only succeeds in using up tons of
> list time achieving nothing meaningful, yet creates a depressing air of
> defensiveness and hard feelings that discourages many of our members from
> expressing themselves. Sometimes trying to keep the peace gets tiring.
> Then again, maybe I've just been on this list too long, gotten too
> sensitive, and it's time for me to move on.
> Best regards Don,
> Darrel
> freezing rain in NE Michigan
>
> >
> > Darrel,
> > My apologies. Did not mean to be negative against the NSI or any
> other
> > engine choice. Was just pointing out a bit of second hand information.
> You're
> > right, a bit of exaggeration on my part but John Kings 912 at the time
was
> > faster than Harters NSI (w/cap).
> > Don Smythe
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: List Tone |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
oops i guess that mail of yours was sent by accident.
Well Good luck in your ventures.
Kitfox are great planes.
Shorty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Fw: List Tone
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
>
> Oops. My message was intended to be sent privately to Don. My sincere
> apologies to the list.
> Darrel Morisse
> List Janitor
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: List Tone
>
>
> > Hi Don. I've been upstate and just got homeand I'm writing this
offlist.
> > No apology necessary, but thanks anyway. My complaint was aimed more at
> the...
>
>
Message 30
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
Darrell,
Just think for a moment. If you leave everyone will talk behind your back.
:) I for one can take all the crap the list may offer for the nuggets of
wisdom and honesty I find. Not a better forum out there. Hang on these
things to shall pass.
Rick
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Engine choices |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: roncarolnikko@webtv.net (Ron Schick)
Robert I have been daydreaming about those rockies below Steve and came
to the conclusion, by the look on his face, he had no oxygen. Sorry
steve just envious. Ron
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