Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:45 AM - Re: KF m4Tailwheel (Michel Verheughe)
2. 05:35 AM - Need kneeboard (Fox5flyer)
3. 05:56 AM - Re: Need kneeboard (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
4. 06:08 AM - Re: model IV wing tanks (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
5. 07:51 AM - Re: KF m4Tailwheel (AV8OR27RL@cs.com)
6. 08:39 AM - cutting exhaust pipe (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
7. 09:21 AM - 912 ul(extra) (customtrans@qwest.net)
8. 10:15 AM - Prop Turbin Ducted-Fan (AV8OR27RL@cs.com)
9. 11:06 AM - Re: model IV wing tanks (Guy Buchanan)
10. 11:39 AM - Re: model IV wing tanks (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
11. 11:45 AM - Re: cutting exhaust pipe (kurt schrader)
12. 11:56 AM - Re: MATCO BRAKES? (kurt schrader)
13. 12:11 PM - Re: Engine choices/ Read the story (kurt schrader)
14. 12:19 PM - Re: model IV wing tanks (customtrans@qwest.net)
15. 12:40 PM - Re: Prop Turbin Ducted-Fan (kurt schrader)
16. 01:00 PM - Re: MATCO BRAKES? (Jim Carriere)
17. 01:42 PM - Re: MATCO BRAKES? (KITFOXPILOT@att.net)
18. 01:52 PM - Re: model IV wing tanks (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
19. 01:56 PM - Re: cutting exhaust pipe (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
20. 03:03 PM - Re: model IV wing tanks (customtrans@qwest.net)
21. 03:15 PM - Re: model IV wing tanks (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
22. 03:50 PM - Re: model IV wing tanks (customtrans@qwest.net)
23. 04:14 PM - Re: Series 5 empty weights. was: Engine choices/ Read the story (Clifford Begnaud)
24. 04:49 PM - Leading Edge ? (Andy)
25. 05:02 PM - Re: Engine choices/ Read the story (Clifford Begnaud)
26. 07:27 PM - Wing Tanks (Rex & Jan Shaw)
27. 08:20 PM - Re: model IV wing tanks (Cudnohufsky's)
28. 08:56 PM - Re: Engine choices/ Read the story ()
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: KF m4Tailwheel |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Chuck & Deanna Schieffer wrote:
> Does anyone know what side force should cause the tail wheel to kick out and
how to measure
> it and adjust it?
Chuck, I guess you have the original Maule tailwheel as I have. I don't know
much about aviation but I can tell you my experience and what I read from other
people on this list.
I am very pleased with my tailwheel. That's good news to you, because it means
you also can be pleased ... after checking a few details.
First, check the you tailwheel works properly. Put the tail on a support, turn
the wheel by hand. There is some resistance to get into free-castoring but not
that much, you can easily do it with one hand. Does you wheel release mechanism
works properly? Is the notch being pulled back at a certain angle and free the
locking pin? Does it do it equally on both sides?
Does the wheel locks again after turning it a full turn?
If all that works as it should, then there is a couple of things else to check
that are also related to wheel shutter.
The angle of the wheel arm axis should be very slightly forward when looking on
the side. How is yours?
The retaining springs connecting the wheel to the rudder should be tight,
rather very tight. Also, no slack at all. How are yours?
My experience is that, when taxiing, my tailwheel is never free-castoring,
unless I want to. I achieve that, usually, by differential braking. When I want
to re-lock the tailwheel, I usually also differential brake to help the tail to
be pushed in the right direction. I do that when lining up at the end of our
rather narrow runway.
Cheers,
Michel
Message 2
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
I'm planning a long cross country in the next couple weeks and I'm in the
planning stage. One thing I need is a kneeboard and I'm just checking to
see if anybody on the list may have one they'll consider unloading. I'd
prefer one of the older military units, but I'm flexible. Please reply to
me offlist with what you have and price.
Thanks,
Deke
morid@northland.lib.mi.us
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Need kneeboard |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 1/2/05 5:36:05 AM Pacific Standard Time,
morid@northland.lib.mi.us writes:
<< I'm planning a long cross country in the next couple weeks and I'm in the
planning stage. One thing I need is a kneeboard and I'm just checking to
see if anybody on the list may have one they'll consider unloading. I'd
pre >>
Don't have an extra kneeboard but, where are you planning on going?
Do Not Archive
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: model IV wing tanks |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 1/1/05 8:32:19 PM Pacific Standard Time,
kitfox@bresnan.net writes:
<< Don , I would be very interested in a drawing of your tank venting .
DeWayne at kitfox@bresnan.net >>
I don't have a drawing but it is pretty straight forward. Just put the
new vent high on the end of the tank next to the filler vent. Run it out the
wing to around the strut attach point. Bend it downward. I attached a 90
degree alum plate to the bottom of the rib where it exited. Epoxy a compression
fitting into a hole in the alum plate with the bottom side threads sticking
through the fabric. Then, fabricate an "L" with compression nut on the upper
side of the "L". Screw it on and you're done.
I did not connect the alum tube directly to the tank. I used a section
of 1/4" hose about 4" long to connect the new tank fitting to the alum tube.
Under the connection I installed an inspection cover for access.
I used 3/8" fuel lines from the tanks to the header. Maybe I should have
used 3/8" tubing for the new vent. Another possible change if I had it to do
over again.
You are just about going to have to cut the tanks open to perform this.
However, with some thought, you might be able to drill the new vent hole from
the outside. You will need to build up the area of the tank around the new
hole. The fiberglass is not thick enough to support threads.
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: KF m4Tailwheel |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AV8OR27RL@cs.com
In a message dated 1/2/05 5:46:02 AM Mountain Standard Time, michel@online.no
writes:
<< Put the tail on a support, turn
the wheel by hand. There is some resistance to get into free-castoring but
not
that much, you can easily do it with one hand. Does it do it equally on both
sides? >>
I had a tailwheel that could kick out at about 2/3 left rudder. Landings
went well as long as I did not need need much left rudder but when I did it
resulted in a ground loop to the right. This would happen on role out at about
12 MPH. This is when you no longer have enough air over the rudder to controle
yaw on my model II. Of course cross wind adds to this problem. Differentual
braking on role out helps to controle it.
Bob Locey
Model II
Message 6
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| Subject: | cutting exhaust pipe |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
I seem to remember once about cutting the tail end of the exhaust pipe at a
45 degree angle on the backside of the airflow. This was either to reduce drag
or help promote good exhaust flow as it exits (or both). Does anyone have
any thoughts on this? I had to weld a short extension on my exhaust pipe and
right now it is cut square.
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 7
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
I am going to do some more hitting on this subject. Now, I have a model 4
that was certified in 1995. Question is: If I were to put the extra kit in
my 912ul will I need to put in the heavy duty mount system?
steve a
Message 8
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| Subject: | Prop Turbin Ducted-Fan |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AV8OR27RL@cs.com
OK I broke my silence so here goes.
At the risk of showing my ignorance I have a question for someone
knowledgeable about turbines and fans. We all know you can only turn a propeller
just
so fast. The thing about staying under Mach or .88 Mach being Ideal or
whatever but as I understand it these rules don't apply to turbines and ducted
fans.
If High RPM can be utilized there are a lot of inexpensive, light weight,
high performance engines out there we could be using in aviation (without heavy,
expensive reduction drives). OK to laugh at me but could someone explain this.
It's been eating at me for years.
Bob Locey
Kitfox II
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: model IV wing tanks |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 09:07 AM 1/2/2005 -0500, you wrote:
> I don't have a drawing but it is pretty straight forward. Just put the
>new vent high on the end of the tank next to the filler vent. Run it out the
>wing to around the strut attach point.
>
>Don Smythe
>N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Don,
Doesn't this put the vent on the inboard "downhill" end of the
tank? Why didn't you put it on the outboard end? Was it to keep the tank
from venting when the wings are folded?
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: model IV wing tanks |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 1/2/05 11:06:58 AM Pacific Standard Time, bnn@nethere.com
writes:
<< Don,
Doesn't this put the vent on the inboard "downhill" end of the
tank? Why didn't you put it on the outboard end? Was it to keep the tank
from venting when the wings are folded?
Guy Buchanan >>
Guy,
The vent is on the outboard end (uphill of the tank). As I said, the
vent runs toward the wing tip and comes out the bottom of the wing where the lift
struts attach to the wing (about half way to the wing tip).
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: cutting exhaust pipe |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Hi Don,
I cut mine at the 45 degree angle too. The upper side
is shorter on mine. I think it allows the exhaust
pulse to release and expand a little more gradually
reducing noise slightly over a straight cut. I am not
sure if there really is another benefit from tip
cutting, in spite of some claims. You have to
consider what it does to the airflow around the
fuselage and not just the exhaust flow.
The bigger effect is to have the exhaust point down at
45 degrees. I read where as much as 10% of your
thrust can come from the exhaust "jet". Pointed
straight aft, you get 100% of it as thrust. Pointed
straight down, you get 100% of it as lift.
Whatever the jet benefit, due to the benefits of
geometry, you get not 100%, but 141.4% of the
thrust/lift benefit at that 45 degree angle. You get
~71% thrust and ~71% lift when at 45 degrees.
Say mine was quite a small jet thrust in cruise - 10
lbs due to my turbo reducing exhaust energy. At the
45, I still get 7.1 lbs of thrust and 7.1 lbs of added
lift. Four pounds gained just by an angle? Easier
than reducing 4 lbs of weight...
Though mine is not quite 45 degrees, whatever the
gain, I'll take it.
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
--- AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote:
> I seem to remember once about cutting the tail end
> of the exhaust pipe at a 45 degree angle on the
> backside of the airflow. This was either to reduce
> drag or help promote good exhaust flow as it exits
> (or both). Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
> I had to weld a short extension on my exhaust pipe
> and right now it is cut square.
>
> Don Smythe
> N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
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Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: MATCO BRAKES? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Ray,
I don't have MATCO's, but here is a general answer.
You may have to disassemble and clean the brake
inside. Usually this indicates a sticking piston, etc
in the brake, or debris keeping it from
moving/retracting freely. Old fluid heated from brake
use can build up a sticky layer.
That has been my non-MATCO experience anyway.
Kurt S.
--- KITFOXPILOT@att.net wrote:
> Been flying my Fox the past few days and noticed
> that the right break seems to be sticking, pressure
> not releasing. It feels like the plane wants to
> break to the right. The wheels still turn but with
> pressure. I also notice that my break disk that are
> attached to the wheels have play. The other thing I
> noticed is that the break pads don't seem to wear
> the same, not even! Any help? What do I do??
>
> Ray
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Engine choices/ Read the story |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Hi Ben,
The KF Pilot's Guide has some "nice" model 5 numbers
to compare. They are about the same for the 6+7:
Engine Empty weight
912s = 750 lbs
O-200 = 850 lbs
O-235 = 900 lbs (I use this data for the Soobs)
O-240 = 900 lbs
It should be noted that the SS S-5 demo plane was
about 1000 lbs with the O-240, so they didn't hit the
goal weight either. My Soob S-5 is about 950 lbs with
the heavy gear, CAP prop, heavy seat cushions, full
panel, etc. 200 lbs heavier than the 912s "nice"
weight, but I don't know any real weights for the
Rotax S-5's to compare to.
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
--- Ben Baltrusaitis <ben@gmpexpress.net> wrote:
> What do you guys like for the V? I need the payload,
> but like the Subaru idea. I see the 912s as the best
> for power to weight.
> I've seen two with the O-200 Cont., but that is
> heavy and I hate to pay those certified parts prices
> when something needs to be replaced.
> What are common empty weights for the V? I can't
> find that on the Skystar site since the V is
> discontinued.
> Thanks!
> Ben
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Message 14
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| Subject: | model IV wing tanks |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
I don't really understand the vent system of the fox too much, but I'm sure
I will pretty soon. But... I just looked at my wing tanks and there is
already a spot twards the back inside of each tank on the top. Is this a
vent? I noticed on the schematic for the one tank this fitting goes to the
top of the header tank. I assume the other tank is sealed off at this
location. Someone please explain this to me. And, can you instead, use
this spot for the vent system that has been mentioned?
steve a
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Guy Buchanan
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: model IV wing tanks
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 09:07 AM 1/2/2005 -0500, you wrote:
> I don't have a drawing but it is pretty straight forward. Just put
the
>new vent high on the end of the tank next to the filler vent. Run it out
the
>wing to around the strut attach point.
>
>Don Smythe
>N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Don,
Doesn't this put the vent on the inboard "downhill" end of the
tank? Why didn't you put it on the outboard end? Was it to keep the tank
from venting when the wings are folded?
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Prop Turbin Ducted-Fan |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Really good question Bob. Several have tried ducted
fans in the past, both individuals and corporations.
Theoritically, they have a sizable performance gain.
Actually, turbines and ducted fans should be kept
below mach 1 also. Controlling the airspeed at their
blade face with expanding ducting is used to achieve
that. Pushing for more efficiency has resulted in
larger and larger fans running at slower speeds.
Ducting adds drag, and causes stability problems if
installed forward of the center of gravity and lift.
This is best for a pusher aircraft, or multi engine
plane with the engines not on the nose.
On a tractor plane, the duct would be destabilizing
and require a larger tail to offset it. It would also
have more trouble blowing the high speed air past the
fuselage than a prop. The longer the prop, the better
here too.
The gain from ducting comes from trapping the airflow
at the blade tips to stop losses there. And if you
use a duct on a pusher, it can also add stability,
allowing you to reduce the tail surfaces and offset
the drag gained from the duct. A Longeze type plane
might do best here.
But of the number of ducted planes tried, none other
than turbofans has worked well enough to warrant the
extra effort. The field is still open for someone to
succeed. :-)
For geared engines, the gain in prop efficiency more
than makes up for the loss from gearing. But for
lbs/hp, fast running engines do best. The more power
strokes per unit time, the more HP. That is why fast
running 2 strokes can be the best at HP/lb, but not
the best thrust/lb without a GB.
If the goal is to gain the most performance for a
light weight engine package, theoritically a 2 stroke
ducted pusher might work. But in practice, swinging
the biggest prop you can still tends to be most
efficient. I am not saying it can't be done. It just
hasn't been done yet.
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
__________________________________
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: MATCO BRAKES? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Carriere <jimcarriere@yahoo.com>
> Time: 03:32:36 PM PST US
> From: KITFOXPILOT@att.net
> Subject: Kitfox-List: MATCO BRAKES?
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: KITFOXPILOT@att.net
>
> Been flying my Fox the past few days and noticed that the right
> break seems to be sticking, pressure not releasing. It feels like
> the plane wants to break to the right. The wheels still turn but
> with pressure. I also notice that my break disk that are attached
> to the wheels have play. The other thing I noticed is that the
> break pads don't seem to wear the same, not even! Any help? What
> do I do??
First I'd make sure that nothing has come loose- nuts and bolts, the
bearing races. That doesn't sound good that you would be able to
notice play in the brake disc. Don't rule out improper assembly,
damage to the brake line, or a malfunctioning master cylinder on
your rudder pedal. Do both brake pedals feel normal and similar to
each other as you press and release them?
Second I'd check that the brake caliper isn't stuck. The brakes
work functionally the same as most auto disc brakes. The caliper
pins need to be lubricated on assembly with a special grease, but it
is possible for them to become stuck later on. You should be able
to slide the caliper side to side (as in, towards the wingtips, not
towards the nose and tail) with your hands and moderate effort.
The third possibility is the slave piston may have become stuck,
making it able to apply some braking action when you push on the toe
brake, but not release that action when you lift your foot from the
toe brake. On a car when this happens, often forcefully prying the
slave piston all the way back inside the cylinder followed by
pushing it most of the way out (by pushing on the brake pedal) can
free up the piston. It helps if you repeat that about 5-10 times.
Since a lot more bad things can happen if airplane brakes go wrong,
I'd get a few other opinions before trying this one on your Kitfox.
Bottom line, if you disassemble that wheel and brake assembly, clean
the parts, and put it back together again, that may solve your
problem, but get more opinions and ideas before you go ahead with
that.
Certainly, buying all new parts for that side will also solve the
problem, but you are probably looking for a less expensive yet still
safe solution.
Jim in NW FL
Series 7 in progress
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Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: MATCO BRAKES? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: KITFOXPILOT@att.net
-------------- Original message from Jim Carriere <jimcarriere@yahoo.com>: --------------
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Carriere
>
> > Time: 03:32:36 PM PST US
> > From: KITFOXPILOT@att.net
> > Subject: Kitfox-List: MATCO BRAKES?
> >
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: KITFOXPILOT@att.net
> >
> > Been flying my Fox the past few days and noticed that the right
> > break seems to be sticking, pressure not releasing. It feels like
> > the plane wants to break to the right. The wheels still turn but
> > with pressure. I also notice that my break disk that are attached
> > to the wheels have play. The other thing I noticed is that the
> > break pads don't seem to wear the same, not even! Any help? What
> > do I do??
>
> First I'd make sure that nothing has come loose- nuts and bolts, the
> bearing races. That doesn't sound good that you would be able to
> notice play in the brake disc. Don't rule out improper assembly,
> damage to the brake line, or a malfunctioning master cylinder on
> your rudder pedal. Do both brake pedals feel normal and similar to
> each other as you press and release them?
>
> Second I'd check that the brake caliper isn't stuck. The brakes
> work functionally the same as most auto disc brakes. The caliper
> pins need to be lubricated on assembly with a special grease, but it
> is possible for them to become stuck later on. You should be able
> to slide the caliper side to side (as in, towards the wingtips, not
> towards the nose and tail) with your hands and moderate effort.
>
> The third possibility is the slave piston may have become stuck,
> making it able to apply some braking action when you push on the toe
> brake, but not release that action when you lift your foot from the
> toe brake. On a car when this happens, often forcefully prying the
> slave piston all the way back inside the cylinder followed by
> pushing it most of the way out (by pushing on the brake pedal) can
> free up the piston. It helps if you repeat that about 5-10 times.
> Since a lot more bad things can happen if airplane brakes go wrong,
> I'd get a few other opinions before trying this one on your Kitfox.
>
> Bottom line, if you disassemble that wheel and brake assembly, clean
> the parts, and put it back together again, that may solve your
> problem, but get more opinions and ideas before you go ahead with
> that.
>
> Certainly, buying all new parts for that side will also solve the
> problem, but you are probably looking for a less expensive yet still
> safe solution.
>
>
> Jim in NW FL
> Series 7 in progress
Jim, thanks for your response! I found that the small screws that attach the the
brake disk to the wheels were a little loose, so I tightend them and re-safety
wired. I also used a little WD40 to lube the two guide tubes and the calipers
due move freely like you say! As for the uneven pad wear, I will check the
adjustments.
Thanks
Ray
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo
>
>
>
>
>
>
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-------------- Original message from Jim Carriere jimcarriere@yahoo.com: --------------
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Carriere <JIMCARRIERE@YAHOO.COM>
Time: 03:32:36 PM PST US
From: KITFOXPILOT@att.net
Subject: Kitfox-List: MATCO BRAKES?
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: KITFOXPILOT@att.net
Been flying my Fox the past few days and noticed that the right
break seems to be sticking, pressure not releasing. It feels like
the plane wants to break to the right. The wheels still turn but
with pressure. I also notice that my break disk that are attached
to the wheels have play. The other thing I noticed is that the
break pads don't seem to wear the same, not even! Any help? What
do I do??
First I'd make sure that nothing has come loose
- nuts and bolts, the
bearing races. That doesn't sound good that you would be able to
notice play in the brake disc. Don't rule out improper assembly,
damage to the brake line, or a malfunctioning master cylinder on
your rudder pedal. Do both brake pedals feel normal and similar to
each other as you press and release them?
Second I'd check that the brake caliper isn't stuck. The brakes
work functionally the same as most auto disc brakes. The caliper
pins need to be lubricated on assembly with a special grease, but it
is possible for them to become stuck later on. You should be able
to slide the caliper side to side (as in, towards the wingtips, not
towards the nose and tail) with your hands and moderate effort.
The third possibility is the slave piston may have become stuck,
making it able to apply some braking action when you push on the to
e
brake, but not release that action when you lift your foot from the
toe brake. On a car when this happens, often forcefully prying the
slave piston all the way back inside the cylinder followed by
pushing it most of the way out (by pushing on the brake pedal) can
free up the piston. It helps if you repeat that about 5-10 times.
Since a lot more bad things can happen if airplane brakes go wrong,
I'd get a few other opinions before trying this one on your Kitfox.
Bottom line, if you disassemble that wheel and brake assembly, clean
the parts, and put it back together again, that may solve your
problem, but get more opinions and ideas before you go ahead with
that.
Certainly, buying all new parts for that side will also solve the
problem, but you are probably looking for a less expensive yet still
safe solution.
&
gt; Jim in NW FL
Series 7 in progress
Jim, thanks for your response! I found that the small screws that attach the the
brake disk to the wheels were a little loose, so I tightend them and re-safety
wired. I also used a little WD40 to lube the two guide tubes and the calipers
due move freely like you say! As for the uneven pad wear, I will check the
adjustments.
Thanks
Ray
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Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: model IV wing tanks |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 1/2/05 12:20:01 PM Pacific Standard Time,
customtrans@qwest.net writes:
<< I will pretty soon. But... I just looked at my wing tanks and there is
already a spot twards the back inside of each tank on the top. Is this a
vent? I noticed on the schematic for the one tank this fitting goes to the
top of the header tank. I assume the other tank is sealed off at this
location. Someone please explain this to me. And, can you instead, use
this spot for the vent system that has been mentioned? >>
The right tank should have four holes in it (on the end near the fuselage).
One hole bottom (aft of center) is the fuel tank outlet. You should have two
holes (top/bottom) near the center of the tank. These are for the fuel tank
level indicator tube. The fourth hole is slightly fwd and high on the end.
This is for the header tank vent line.
The other tank is identical but does not get the header tank vent. In my
case, the left tank did not have a hole for the vent line.
You say, "a spot twards the back inside of each tank on the top. Is this
a
vent?" ??? I don't quite understand, "spot". Is this a hole or what?
Also, you say, "on the top"??? I don't think you meant the top of the tank.
Anyway, the header tank vents to one wing tank only (right) through the
fitting mentioned above. At the same time, the wing tank vents to the air via
the bent line on top of the filler cap.
Hope this helps.
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
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| Subject: | Re: cutting exhaust pipe |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 1/2/05 11:46:14 AM Pacific Standard Time,
smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com writes:
<< Say mine was quite a small jet thrust in cruise - 10
lbs due to my turbo reducing exhaust energy. At the
45, I still get 7.1 lbs of thrust and 7.1 lbs of added
lift. Four pounds gained just by an angle? Easier
than reducing 4 lbs of weight...
Though mine is not quite 45 degrees, whatever the
gain, I'll take it.
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo >>
Kurt,
I just did some serious calculations and figured that a perfectly
deflected exhaust pipe will add .000267 MPH on speed and .0005835 inches per minute
on climb rate. I'm heading to the airport now to cut mine since I haven't cut
it yet.
Do Not Archive
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
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| Subject: | model IV wing tanks |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
You are right, I see the extra hole for the vent, it's lined right up to the
cap on the opposite side.
steve a
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
AlbertaIV@aol.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: model IV wing tanks
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 1/2/05 12:20:01 PM Pacific Standard Time,
customtrans@qwest.net writes:
<< I will pretty soon. But... I just looked at my wing tanks and there is
already a spot twards the back inside of each tank on the top. Is this a
vent? I noticed on the schematic for the one tank this fitting goes to the
top of the header tank. I assume the other tank is sealed off at this
location. Someone please explain this to me. And, can you instead, use
this spot for the vent system that has been mentioned? >>
The right tank should have four holes in it (on the end near the fuselage).
One hole bottom (aft of center) is the fuel tank outlet. You should have
two
holes (top/bottom) near the center of the tank. These are for the fuel tank
level indicator tube. The fourth hole is slightly fwd and high on the end.
This is for the header tank vent line.
The other tank is identical but does not get the header tank vent. In
my
case, the left tank did not have a hole for the vent line.
You say, "a spot twards the back inside of each tank on the top. Is
this
a
vent?" ??? I don't quite understand, "spot". Is this a hole or what?
Also, you say, "on the top"??? I don't think you meant the top of the tank.
Anyway, the header tank vents to one wing tank only (right) through the
fitting mentioned above. At the same time, the wing tank vents to the air
via
the bent line on top of the filler cap.
Hope this helps.
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: model IV wing tanks |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 1/2/05 3:04:44 PM Pacific Standard Time,
customtrans@qwest.net writes:
<< You are right, I see the extra hole for the vent, it's lined right up to
the
cap on the opposite side.
steve a >>
Steve,
Do you mean lines up with the filler cap? If so, thats probably a
coincidence. The vent hole is not connected to the filler in any way.
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 22
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| Subject: | model IV wing tanks |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
I meant the vent hole on the inside of the tank lines up with the filler
hole.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
AlbertaIV@aol.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: model IV wing tanks
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 1/2/05 3:04:44 PM Pacific Standard Time,
customtrans@qwest.net writes:
<< You are right, I see the extra hole for the vent, it's lined right up to
the
cap on the opposite side.
steve a >>
Steve,
Do you mean lines up with the filler cap? If so, thats probably a
coincidence. The vent hole is not connected to the filler in any way.
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Series 5 empty weights. was: Engine choices/ Read the |
story
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
Randy,
That is light! Did you use the new series 7 Firewall forward kit or a S5/6
FF? Do you have spring aluminum landing gear?
Radio and transponder? Lightweight battery? Which tailwheel and which prop?
Best regards,
Cliff
>
> Ben,
> Mine came in at 776 lbs with the 912S. I would like to think it is on the
> light side.
>
> I should have claimed 1320 for max gross, but the DAR told me I could
> change
> it later.
>
> Randy
>
> .
>
>
Message 24
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andy" <fultz@trip.net>
Have any of you KF guys NOT used the wing leading edge material that was
supplied with your kit? If not, how does yours compare in performance to
those that did? How much trouble is it to install? I'm thinking of trying
it on my AVID Speedwing. Thanks for you help.
Andy F.
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Engine choices/ Read the story |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
Ben,
It's tough to beat the 912s on a LIGHTLY built model 5/6/7 like Randy's.
But the same plane built lightly with the 0-235 can give outstanding
performance, perhaps even better performance in certain circumstances (heavy
loads). Our model 5 with 0-235 came in at 870# empty, but extreme measures
were taken to achieve that. A more realistic weight is 900-920 for a lightly
built plane. Though I've never seen another one under 950 with the 0-235.
All the ones with the I0-240 that I have seen or heard of, have been in the
high 900 range.
The bigger engines will give you faster cruise speeds than the same plane
with the 912s. Expect about 115 mph with the 912s (maybe 120 if you really
clean it up aerodynamically) With the 0-235 or I0-240 you can get 130+mph.
As for payload, consider this; even though the cargo sack is rated for 150#,
you will likely bulk out before getting that much in there. We found this to
be true on several camping outings in our kitfox. We found it difficult to
squeeze in 135#. We use lightweight camping/cooking gear and usually carry
two small folding chairs and a softside cooler.
If you want more detailed input on this particular configuration, just email
me offlist.
Best Regards,
Cliff
S5, Lycoming 0-235
Erie, CO
>
> What do you guys like for the V? I need the payload, but like the Subaru
> idea. I see the 912s as the best for power to weight.
> I've seen two with the O-200 Cont., but that is heavy and I hate to pay
> those certified parts prices when something needs to be replaced.
> What are common empty weights for the V? I can't find that on the Skystar
> site since the V is discontinued.
> Thanks!
> Ben
Message 26
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
I'm planning to fabricate aluminum wing tanks for my
model IV. Position and displacement appear pretty
straight forward, but I was wondering if anyone had
any suggestions on:
- securing the tanks between ribs
- plumbing into the main tank
Can't you still get fibreglass tanks from Skystar for a MKIV ? The idea of
aluminium worries me stupid. Tony that built my MKIV originally built an
earlier model [ MKIII I think ] that had aluminium tanks. One split in
fight pouring fuel all over him and his passenger. He was over tiger country
but never the less shut down and glided down. On landing they both walked
away but destroyed the plane. I think it was Denney Aircraft Corp' then but
after threatening to sue they gave him another kit which is now my plane.
These aluminium tanks were notorious for splitting. Maybe you can make a
better job of it I don't know. There has been problems with junk in the
fibreglas tanks but I certainly know which I prefer.
Anyway I just thought I would point this out in case you hadn't heard about
the aluminium tanks splitting.
Rex.
rexjan@bigpond.com
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: model IV wing tanks |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cudnohufsky's" <7suds@chartermi.net>
Don,
Ever thought about going all the way to the wing tip and using a nacca vent
out the top or side? The Lancair 4-P is using this concept in the side of
the winglet.
Lloyd
----- Original Message -----
From: <AlbertaIV@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: model IV wing tanks
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 1/1/05 8:45:39 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> customtrans@qwest.net writes:
>
> << Don,
> How did you plum the vent to the bottom side of the wing? Particularly
> interested in placement to the tank and then the vent itself.
> >>
> When the tanks were cut open, I installed a fiberglass boss and fitting
> at the top outboard end of the tank (near the filler). I then ran about
> 5' or
> so of alum tubing through the wing and stopped about where the struts
> attach
> to the wing. Bent the tubing downward and attached a compression fitting
> for
> the pitot type vent (where the tubing exited the fabric). The pitot type
> vent
> can be replaced via the compression fitting if needed.
> One change I might would make is to extend the vent further out the
> wing
> before coming down. When I taxi with full fuel and make a turn, fuel will
> piss out the vents. However, it hit the ground and does not get on the
> fabric.
> I don't know if going further would help that much. Of course, due to
> wing
> dihedral, the further you go the higher above the tank it is????
>
> Don Smythe
> N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
>
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Engine choices/ Read the story |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: <Lonnie_D._Tillinghast@oxy.com>
Clint, was it a Jabiru 2200 (4-cylinder) or 3300 (6-cylinder)? I
recently bought a 5 with a 3300 in it after looking for more than a year
at all the engine combinations that are available. I can not believe
the performance and how quiet and smooth the Jabiru is...I especially
like the simplicity of it.
The Fox weighs 812lbs with Grove landing gear, Maule tail wheel, wheel
pants, GPS, CD player, etc. It makes no difference if you have one or
two people in it...quarter full of gas or topped off, she JUMPS off the
ground!
Thanks,
Lonnie
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clint Bazzill"
<clint_bazzill@hotmail.com
<mailto:clint_bazzill@hotmail.com?subjectRe:%20Engine%20choices/%20Read
%20the%20story&replyto200412302039.iBUKd3j15592@matronics.com> >
Thanks Lowell for the good info. I also am flying behind a Rotax 912
only
its the S version. This combination for a Kitfix cannot be beat. I
have
flown in planes with the Jabiru, they are nice engines but lack a
redrive
which makes them poor in climb performance.
Read the story in Sport Aviation Sept 2004 about a NSI installed in a
Model
5. Problems that he had and results. Very Very interesting reading, a
must
for new engine installations in Kitfoxes. this article was written
before
the 912ULS was introduced.
Its in the Nuts & Bolts Technical counselor. Called Ulterior Motors by
Ken
Ibold.
A closing quote "The airplane is now 150 pounds lighter, which
translates
directly into a higher useful load. The smaller engines burns 5.7 gph,
further adding to the increase in payload for short trips. And the
kicker:
The more efficient engine/prop/airframe combination yielded and airplane
25
to 30 mph faster than before."
140 Hp Subaru turbo vrs Rotax 914.
A must read. Clint
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