---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 01/05/05: 41 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:16 AM - Re: Sport Planes (kurt schrader) 2. 12:21 AM - Re: Tank Vents (kurt schrader) 3. 01:12 AM - Tailwheel question (Kerry Skyring) 4. 02:06 AM - Re: Right fabric door panel lost (Howard Firm) 5. 04:48 AM - Re: Tailwheel question (Clifford Begnaud) 6. 05:20 AM - Tailwheel question (Dee Young) 7. 05:24 AM - Re: Tank Vents (Dee Young) 8. 06:07 AM - Re: Tailwheel question (flier) 9. 06:40 AM - Worlds uglist airplane (Bob Unternaehrer) 10. 06:46 AM - Re: Sport Planes (Lowell Fitt) 11. 06:53 AM - Re: Hello list (Brett Walmsley) 12. 06:54 AM - Re: Hello list (Brett Walmsley) 13. 07:01 AM - Steel prop plate. (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 14. 07:22 AM - Re: Hello list (Brett Walmsley) 15. 07:27 AM - Re: Steel prop plate. (Fox5flyer) 16. 07:49 AM - Re: Worlds uglist airplane (~~Shorty~~) 17. 08:22 AM - Re: Tank Vents (Marco Menezes) 18. 08:37 AM - Tail spring question? Kitfox-List (Harris, Robert) 19. 11:38 AM - Re: Tail spring question? Kitfox-List (Fox5flyer) 20. 11:55 AM - Re: Tail spring question? (Harris, Robert) 21. 03:30 PM - Re: Steel prop plate. (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 22. 04:06 PM - Re: Steel prop plate. (Randy Daughenbaugh) 23. 04:26 PM - Re: Steel prop plate. (Glenn Horne) 24. 04:35 PM - Re: Steel prop plate. (Jerry Liles) 25. 05:21 PM - Re: Steel prop plate. (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 26. 05:30 PM - Re: Steel prop plate. (Brett Walmsley) 27. 05:33 PM - Re: Steel prop plate. (Brett Walmsley) 28. 05:36 PM - Re: Steel prop plate. (Jerry Liles) 29. 05:45 PM - Re: Steel prop plate. (Steve Cooper) 30. 06:39 PM - Re: Steel prop plate. (Fox5flyer) 31. 06:42 PM - Re: Steel prop plate. (Don Pearsall) 32. 07:18 PM - Re: Steel prop plate. (Steve Cooper) 33. 07:55 PM - Re: Tank Vents (Wwillyard@aol.com) 34. 09:25 PM - Kitfox 5 w/Jabiru 3300 Details () 35. 09:25 PM - Re: Sport Planes (kurt schrader) 36. 09:25 PM - Re: Tank Vents (kurt schrader) 37. 09:33 PM - Oil Injection Tank (David Savener) 38. 09:37 PM - Recall: Kitfox 5 w/Jabiru 3300 Details () 39. 10:24 PM - Re: Oil Injection Tank (kurt schrader) 40. 10:28 PM - Re: Kitfox 5 w/Jabiru 3300 Details (kurt schrader) 41. 10:47 PM - Re: Tank Vents (kurt schrader) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:16:36 AM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Sport Planes --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader I went to a local flying club meeting tonight and got some surprising info. The club is thinking about adding sport class planes to the inventory. We have an FAA rep in the club and he passed on the following: You can take many planes with sufficiently low empty weight and STC them to Sport Plane use. You can then fly one in either category as long as you stay within that category's rules for the flight. A sport pilot could fly it under 1320 lbs gross as STC'd, solo if they had to for weight, right after riding with a rated pilot in the normal category to which it was origionally approved. I asked him about homebuilts. He said we could do almost anything, once we stc'd it that way. Certainly STC ours to sport pilot. They are talking C-120/140's and Champs for the club. They are also talking certified European planes that meet the sport plane criteria. Oh, it is a taildragger's club. :-) On the plus side, our Fox's are wide open for use under both catregories. On the bad side, where does this leave SS? There are so many more contenders when old certified light planes are STC'd to fly 'both' ways. I suppose when SS sells completed Fox's as Soport Planes, they can still do well, if the price is right. Kurt S. __________________________________ http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:21:20 AM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tank Vents --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Hi Dee, Can you post a picture of it? It would be nice if we could find a float type check valve and mount it inside the fuel cap. It would breath both ways, but stop fuel from escaping. Kurt S. --- Dee Young wrote: > Something has worked well for me is I purchased a > small automotive vacuum type check valve. I has a > nipple on each side with 1/8 dia. hole in each > nipple. The area where the check valve is contained > is about the size of a nickel thus the thing is > shaped something like a top you would spin with your > fingers. I drilled a small hole in the top of the > wind screen at the highest point possible and > secured it to the to wind screen. The vent hose > comes up from the header tank and is routed along > the wing root and plugs in to the bottom nipple with > the other nipple sticking out of the wind screen. > The check valve allows air in but doesn't want to > let fuel out. I have seen a few drops of fuel on my > screen only one time. I use 100LL so its very > obvious if a leak happens. Maybe this is a good way > for someone else also. > > > Dee Young > Model II > N345DY __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:12:23 AM PST US From: "Kerry Skyring" Subject: Kitfox-List: Tailwheel question --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kerry Skyring" Cliff wrote... "Consider the 6" Homebuilders Special Tailwheel from Aircraft Spruce. I flew about 750 hours with one on our first Kitfox and just loved it." My question is - does this Tailwheel come with leaf springs that fit the Kitfox? We are an S5, yet to fly, and have the standard Skystar tailwheel and are worried about the reports of broken springs. We are aware of the Grove aluminium spring but wonder if the Spruce Homebuilders special is an alternative and stronger set-up than the original. Any other simple and not-too-expensive suggestions gratefully received. Kerry PS The list continues to provide great information and encouragement. > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:06:38 AM PST US From: "Howard Firm" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Right fabric door panel lost --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Howard Firm" I did not use mine......let me check and see if I still have it...I'll let you know later today! Howard Firm 508 12th St. South Virginia MN 55792 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Smathers" Subject: Kitfox-List: Right fabric door panel lost > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jeff Smathers > > Hi all, > > I need to replace the fabric covered door panel with the > sewn pocket that SS sells. I lost mine last summer when the > velcro gave way just enough to pucker a hole into the airstream, > it then inflated in about 1/2 second and then ripped itself away and > landed in some field that was just plowed about 75 miles from > home. > > Mine was a cordura blue. Any ideas? > > Thanks, Jeff Smathers > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:48:23 AM PST US From: "Clifford Begnaud" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tailwheel question --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" Kerry, No tailwheel comes with a spring, these are two separate items. The HBS tailwheel comes with an adapter so that it will fit either 1.25" or 1.5" wide springs. Right now, the only spring available is the grove aluminum. Skystar told me some time ago that they were working on a steel leaf replacement. Anyone talk to them about this lately? Best Regards, Cliff > > Cliff wrote... > > "Consider the 6" Homebuilders Special Tailwheel from Aircraft Spruce. I > flew > about 750 hours with one on our first Kitfox and just loved it." > > My question is - does this Tailwheel come with leaf springs that fit the > Kitfox? We are an S5, yet to fly, and have the standard Skystar tailwheel > and are worried about the reports of broken springs. > We are aware of the Grove aluminium spring but wonder if the Spruce > Homebuilders special is an alternative and stronger set-up than the > original. Any other simple and not-too-expensive suggestions gratefully > received. > > Kerry > PS The list continues to provide great information and encouragement. > > >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:20:55 AM PST US From: "Dee Young" Subject: Kitfox-List: Tailwheel question Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 06:18:52 -0700 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" Homebuilders special is an alternative and stronger set-up than the original. Any other simple and not-too-expensive suggestions gratefully received. Kerry you might consider using what you have for a while. I have had no problems with the Maule wheel to date. Dee Young Model II N345DY Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:24:17 AM PST US From: "Dee Young" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tank Vents Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 06:23:19 -0700 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" Kurt I am on the road for a few days but will when I come return. Have a nice week. ----- Original Message ----- From: kurt schrader To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 1:21 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tank Vents --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader > Hi Dee, Can you post a picture of it? It would be nice if we could find a float type check valve and mount it inside the fuel cap. It would breath both ways, but stop fuel from escaping. Kurt S. --- Dee Young > wrote: > Something has worked well for me is I purchased a > small automotive vacuum type check valve. I has a > nipple on each side with 1/8 dia. hole in each > nipple. The area where the check valve is contained > is about the size of a nickel thus the thing is > shaped something like a top you would spin with your > fingers. I drilled a small hole in the top of the > wind screen at the highest point possible and > secured it to the to wind screen. The vent hose > comes up from the header tank and is routed along > the wing root and plugs in to the bottom nipple with > the other nipple sticking out of the wind screen. > The check valve allows air in but doesn't want to > let fuel out. I have seen a few drops of fuel on my > screen only one time. I use 100LL so its very > obvious if a leak happens. Maybe this is a good way > for someone else also. > > > Dee Young > Model II > N345DY __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:07:39 AM PST US From: "flier" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tailwheel question --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" I agree with Dee. Over 300hrs on the Maule and stock steel springs on my IV. I put the homebuilder tire on only because it gives a little softer ride and it was only $26... Regards, Ted --- Original Message --- From: "Dee Young" Subject: Kitfox-List: Tailwheel question >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" > > >Homebuilders special is an alternative and stronger set-up than the >original. Any other simple and not-too-expensive suggestions gratefully >received. > >Kerry you might consider using what you have for a while. I have had no problems with the Maule wheel to date. > > >Dee Young >Model II >N345DY > >Do Not Archive > > >_- ====================================================== =============== Contributions any other Forums. >_- ====================================================== =============== http://www.matronics.com/subscription http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list http://www.matronics.com/archives http://www.matronics.com/photoshare list http://www.matronics.com/emaillists http://www.matronics.com/contribution >_- ====================================================== =============== > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:40:39 AM PST US From: "Bob Unternaehrer" Subject: Kitfox-List: Worlds uglist airplane --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" <<>>> It wouldl be nice if posted links gave a "hint" as to what they were about, but anyway this one has got to be a candidate for the "ugliest" air plane contest. Talking about a ground looper, more so than a "standard kitfox" Blue Skies Bob Unternaehrer shilohcom@c-magic.com No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:46:41 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Sport Planes --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Kurt, I have not followed this whole issue that closely as my airplane is a IV with the 1200 lb gross wt, but it seems this is in opposition to other information we have had in the past. It is my experience that FAA guys sometimes will tell us certain things and then sometimes forget what they told us after a while. Just curious, but is your source willing to put his information in writing for the sake of the club and then put his name on it. Not many are willing to do that. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "kurt schrader" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Sport Planes > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader > > I went to a local flying club meeting tonight and got > some surprising info. The club is thinking about > adding sport class planes to the inventory. We have > an FAA rep in the club and he passed on the following: > > You can take many planes with sufficiently low empty > weight and STC them to Sport Plane use. You can then > fly one in either category as long as you stay within > that category's rules for the flight. A sport pilot > could fly it under 1320 lbs gross as STC'd, solo if > they had to for weight, right after riding with a > rated pilot in the normal category to which it was > origionally approved. I asked him about homebuilts. > He said we could do almost anything, once we stc'd it > that way. Certainly STC ours to sport pilot. > > They are talking C-120/140's and Champs for the club. > They are also talking certified European planes that > meet the sport plane criteria. Oh, it is a > taildragger's club. :-) > > On the plus side, our Fox's are wide open for use > under both catregories. On the bad side, where does > this leave SS? There are so many more contenders when > old certified light planes are STC'd to fly 'both' > ways. I suppose when SS sells completed Fox's as > Soport Planes, they can still do well, if the price is > right. > > Kurt S. > > > __________________________________ > http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 > > > BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > ------------------------------------------------------ > Teach CanIt if this mail (ID 72492973) is spam: > Spam: http://login.safereach.com/b.php?c=s&i=72492973&m=f1ae2a37ef27 > Not spam: http://login.safereach.com/b.php?c=n&i=72492973&m=f1ae2a37ef27 > Forget vote: http://login.safereach.com/b.php?c=f&i=72492973&m=f1ae2a37ef27 > ------------------------------------------------------ > END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:53:55 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Hello list From: "Brett Walmsley" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" Hello Pete and welcome, I am building a '95 vintage IV that came with a 912 and it has a steel plate with holes that match the prop hub. When put on the engine it "sandwiches" the prop. I can e-mail you a photo if you like. > When a stock GSC prop is bolted to the flange of the 912, do the bolts go > directly into the machined aluminum hub or is there a round plate between > the bolt heads and the hub. > > Thanks again > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:54:29 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Hello list From: "Brett Walmsley" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" Hello Pete and welcome, I am building a '95 vintage IV that came with a 912 and it has a steel plate with holes that match the prop hub. When put on the engine it "sandwiches" the prop. I can e-mail you a photo if you like. > When a stock GSC prop is bolted to the flange of the 912, do the bolts go > directly into the machined aluminum hub or is there a round plate between > the bolt heads and the hub. > > Thanks again > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:01:03 AM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Kitfox-List: Steel prop plate. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com In a message dated 1/5/05 6:55:12 AM Pacific Standard Time, kitfox4@numail.org writes: << Hello Pete and welcome, I am building a '95 vintage IV that came with a 912 and it has a steel plate with holes that match the prop hub. When put on the engine it "sandwiches" the prop. I can e-mail you a photo if you like. >> Hmmmm, mine has an alum plate which I made myself. Just wondering if steel or alum is correct or does it make a difference? What do most use? Don Smythe N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:22:28 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Hello list From: "Brett Walmsley" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" Hello Pete and welcome, I am building a '95 vintage IV that came with a 912 and it has a steel plate with holes that match the prop hub. When put on the engine it "sandwiches" the prop. I can e-mail you a photo if you like. > When a stock GSC prop is bolted to the flange of the 912, do the bolts go > directly into the machined aluminum hub or is there a round plate between > the bolt heads and the hub. > > Thanks again > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:01 AM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Steel prop plate. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" What is the purpose of the plate? I thought they were used only for wooden props with wooden hubs. Deke ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Kitfox-List: Steel prop plate. > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com > > In a message dated 1/5/05 6:55:12 AM Pacific Standard Time, > kitfox4@numail.org writes: > > << Hello Pete and welcome, > I am building a '95 vintage IV that came with a 912 and it has a steel > plate with holes that match the prop hub. When put on the engine it > "sandwiches" the prop. I can e-mail you a photo if you like. > >> > > Hmmmm, mine has an alum plate which I made myself. Just wondering if steel > or alum is correct or does it make a difference? What do most use? > > Don Smythe > N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:49:18 AM PST US From: "~~Shorty~~" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Worlds uglist airplane --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "~~Shorty~~" read topic ----- Original Message ----- From: "~~Shorty~~" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox for sale > http://www.qksrv.net/click-1622388-8417593?loc=http%3A//cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll%3FViewItem%26rd%3D1%26item%3D4516102651%26category%3D63679%26sspagename%3DWDVW ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Unternaehrer" Subject: Kitfox-List: Worlds uglist airplane > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" > > <<>>> > > It wouldl be nice if posted links gave a "hint" as to what they were about, but anyway this one has got to be a candidate for the "ugliest" air plane contest. Talking about a ground looper, more so than a "standard kitfox" > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:22:16 AM PST US From: Marco Menezes Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tank Vents --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes Missed beginning of string but if you're talking header tank vents, there's an Andair check valve available thru Aircraft Spruce that should do the job. Be sure to specify the bleeder feature. See tech sheet at: http://www.andair.co.uk/pdfs/check.pdf Marco Menezes KFII N99KX kurt schrader wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Hi Dee, Can you post a picture of it? It would be nice if we could find a float type check valve and mount it inside the fuel cap. It would breath both ways, but stop fuel from escaping. Kurt S. --- Dee Young wrote: > Something has worked well for me is I purchased a > small automotive vacuum type check valve. I has a > nipple on each side with 1/8 dia. hole in each > nipple. The area where the check valve is contained > is about the size of a nickel thus the thing is > shaped something like a top you would spin with your > fingers. I drilled a small hole in the top of the > wind screen at the highest point possible and > secured it to the to wind screen. The vent hose > comes up from the header tank and is routed along > the wing root and plugs in to the bottom nipple with > the other nipple sticking out of the wind screen. > The check valve allows air in but doesn't want to > let fuel out. I have seen a few drops of fuel on my > screen only one time. I use 100LL so its very > obvious if a leak happens. Maybe this is a good way > for someone else also. > > > Dee Young > Model II > N345DY __________________________________ --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:37:29 AM PST US From: "Harris, Robert" Subject: Kitfox-List: Tail spring question? Kitfox-List --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" Do the Grove tail spring break? Is the stock tail spring on the V a Grove Spring? (It looks it) I have a Series 1999 model V Kitfox with a stock tail spring and 8" Maule tundra tail wheel. I'm worried the tail spring will break. My model II Kitfox has a steel tail spring that looks stronger than the Grove. Robert ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:38:11 AM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tail spring question? Kitfox-List --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" I've been on this list for over ten years and in that time I can recall only one Grove spring breaking. It wasn't very long ago. Lots of steel one's have broken. Most of my takeoffs and landings are on rough ground and my Grove spring with Maule Tundra Tailwheel has stood the test very well. I don't think you have much to worry about. Deke S5 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harris, Robert" Subject: Kitfox-List: Tail spring question? Kitfox-List > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" > > > Do the Grove tail spring break? > Is the stock tail spring on the V a Grove Spring? (It looks it) > > I have a Series 1999 model V Kitfox with a stock tail spring and 8" Maule > tundra tail wheel. I'm worried the tail spring will break. > > My model II Kitfox has a steel tail spring that looks stronger than the > Grove. > > Robert > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:55:07 AM PST US From: "Harris, Robert" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Tail spring question? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" Thanks Deke, Robert I've been on this list for over ten years and in that time I can recall only one Grove spring breaking. It wasn't very long ago. Lots of steel one's have broken. Most of my takeoffs and landings are on rough ground and my Grove spring with Maule Tundra Tailwheel has stood the test very well. I don't think you have much to worry about. Deke S5 > Do the Grove tail spring break? > Is the stock tail spring on the V a Grove Spring? (It looks like it) > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:30:34 PM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Steel prop plate. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com In a message dated 1/5/05 7:27:51 AM Pacific Standard Time, morid@northland.lib.mi.us writes: << What is the purpose of the plate? I thought they were used only for wooden props with wooden hubs. Deke >> Deke, That is a good question??? I fabricated a 1/8"+ alum plate when I originally installed my GSC. I used the same plate when I switched to the Warp. I most likely would not have done this on my own without having been told to do so from somewhere. Of course, I can't remember where I got the information to do so. I would think the plate helps to distribute the force on the prop flange. Since I don't remember why I did this, I'm very interested in finding out the reason. Apparently, from your post, you don't have one??? Don Smythe N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 04:06:40 PM PST US From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Steel prop plate. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Don, et. al, I don't know if this helps, but for my Power Fin prop, they said to use the plate or (OR) washers. Randy . -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Steel prop plate. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com In a message dated 1/5/05 7:27:51 AM Pacific Standard Time, morid@northland.lib.mi.us writes: << What is the purpose of the plate? I thought they were used only for wooden props with wooden hubs. Deke >> Deke, That is a good question??? I fabricated a 1/8"+ alum plate when I originally installed my GSC. I used the same plate when I switched to the Warp. I most likely would not have done this on my own without having been told to do so from somewhere. Of course, I can't remember where I got the information to do so. I would think the plate helps to distribute the force on the prop flange. Since I don't remember why I did this, I'm very interested in finding out the reason. Apparently, from your post, you don't have one??? Don Smythe N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 04:26:34 PM PST US From: "Glenn Horne" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Steel prop plate. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Glenn Horne" Hi Don, Didn't put the plate on when I installed my gsc prop. Remember Don. Glenn -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Steel prop plate. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com In a message dated 1/5/05 7:27:51 AM Pacific Standard Time, morid@northland.lib.mi.us writes: << What is the purpose of the plate? I thought they were used only for wooden props with wooden hubs. Deke >> Deke, That is a good question??? I fabricated a 1/8"+ alum plate when I originally installed my GSC. I used the same plate when I switched to the Warp. I most likely would not have done this on my own without having been told to do so from somewhere. Of course, I can't remember where I got the information to do so. I would think the plate helps to distribute the force on the prop flange. Since I don't remember why I did this, I'm very interested in finding out the reason. Apparently, from your post, you don't have one??? Don Smythe N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 04:35:38 PM PST US From: Jerry Liles Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Steel prop plate. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles Aluminum crush plate came with my wood prop. Steel would be OK just heavier. Jerry Liles AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com > >In a message dated 1/5/05 6:55:12 AM Pacific Standard Time, >kitfox4@numail.org writes: > ><< Hello Pete and welcome, > I am building a '95 vintage IV that came with a 912 and it has a steel > plate with holes that match the prop hub. When put on the engine it > "sandwiches" the prop. I can e-mail you a photo if you like. > >> > >Hmmmm, mine has an alum plate which I made myself. Just wondering if steel >or alum is correct or does it make a difference? What do most use? > >Don Smythe >N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 05:21:18 PM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Steel prop plate. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com In a message dated 1/5/05 4:27:01 PM Pacific Standard Time, glennflys@rcn.com writes: << Hi Don, Didn't put the plate on when I installed my gsc prop. Remember Don. Glenn >> That's why the question is being asked. Is the plate desired, required or, a fiction of the imagination? Don Smythe N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:30:58 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Steel prop plate. From: "Brett Walmsley" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" If memory serves me my GSC came with the steel plate in the prop box. The whole thing was puchased as a kit ,fuse, wings, fwf, engine and prop from skystar in 95, (not by me) so I have to assume it is meant to be used. I will call GSC and check, they have been helpful in the past. > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles > > Aluminum crush plate came with my wood prop. Steel would be OK just > heavier. > > Jerry Liles > > AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote: > >>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com >> >>In a message dated 1/5/05 6:55:12 AM Pacific Standard Time, >>kitfox4@numail.org writes: >> >><< Hello Pete and welcome, >> I am building a '95 vintage IV that came with a 912 and it has a steel >> plate with holes that match the prop hub. When put on the engine it >> "sandwiches" the prop. I can e-mail you a photo if you like. >> >> >> >>Hmmmm, mine has an alum plate which I made myself. Just wondering if >> steel >>or alum is correct or does it make a difference? What do most use? >> >>Don Smythe >>N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 05:33:00 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Steel prop plate. From: "Brett Walmsley" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" p.s. My bolts are too long if I don't use the plate...... > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com > > In a message dated 1/5/05 4:27:01 PM Pacific Standard Time, > glennflys@rcn.com > writes: > > << Hi Don, > Didn't put the plate on when I installed my gsc prop. > Remember Don. > Glenn > >> > That's why the question is being asked. Is the plate desired, required > or, a > fiction of the imagination? > > Don Smythe > N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 05:36:12 PM PST US From: Jerry Liles Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Steel prop plate. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles The plate is necessary for a wood prop and optional for others. It serves to distribute the pressure of the mounting bolts over a wider area to reduce crushing of the wood fibers and also to increase the surface area providing friction to hold the prop in place. Wood props are largely held in place by friction with the prop hub and crush plate. If the fit is loose, like happened to me once, the prop can heat up to the smoking point where it is rubbing against the hub. Not a good thing. Jerry Liles AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com > >In a message dated 1/5/05 7:27:51 AM Pacific Standard Time, >morid@northland.lib.mi.us writes: > ><< > What is the purpose of the plate? I thought they were used only for wooden > props with wooden hubs. > Deke > > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 05:45:02 PM PST US From: "Steve Cooper" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Steel prop plate. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" I have a question for you more experienced guys...I have a prop that originally came with 1/4" bolts. I drilled them out to fit 5/16" bolts. Did I ruin the prop? I haven't run it yet. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Liles Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Steel prop plate. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles The plate is necessary for a wood prop and optional for others. It serves to distribute the pressure of the mounting bolts over a wider area to reduce crushing of the wood fibers and also to increase the surface area providing friction to hold the prop in place. Wood props are largely held in place by friction with the prop hub and crush plate. If the fit is loose, like happened to me once, the prop can heat up to the smoking point where it is rubbing against the hub. Not a good thing. Jerry Liles AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com > >In a message dated 1/5/05 7:27:51 AM Pacific Standard Time, >morid@northland.lib.mi.us writes: > ><< > What is the purpose of the plate? I thought they were used only for wooden > props with wooden hubs. > Deke > > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 06:39:43 PM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Steel prop plate. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" I've never used crush plates on any metal prop hub, only on wood hubs. That's what I thought they were for--spreading the load so it doesn't crush the wood fibers. My GSC didn't come with one, nor did the NSI. Deke > > In a message dated 1/5/05 4:27:01 PM Pacific Standard Time, glennflys@rcn.com > writes: > > << Hi Don, > Didn't put the plate on when I installed my gsc prop. > Remember Don. > Glenn > >> > That's why the question is being asked. Is the plate desired, required or, a > fiction of the imagination? > > Don Smythe > N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 06:42:52 PM PST US From: "Don Pearsall" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Steel prop plate. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" Steve, most small props such as on the Kitfox really do not have enough stress to require the larger bolts. If you have ever read the specs of the AN bolts, they are about 125,000 PSI tensile strength. I don't know what it would take to get the bolts to fail, but I am sure that the rest of the prop or plane would fail before your prop bolts broke. I used to carve my own wood props and even tested them to failure. In all cases the props broke long before the hub or bolts even showed any stress. The main thing is to torque them to the proper specs so the prop does not move on the hub, like Jerry Liles just mentioned. So I don't think you wrecked the prop, it just wasn't needed. Don Pearsall -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Cooper Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Steel prop plate. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" I have a question for you more experienced guys...I have a prop that originally came with 1/4" bolts. I drilled them out to fit 5/16" bolts. Did I ruin the prop? I haven't run it yet. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Liles Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Steel prop plate. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles The plate is necessary for a wood prop and optional for others. It serves to distribute the pressure of the mounting bolts over a wider area to reduce crushing of the wood fibers and also to increase the surface area providing friction to hold the prop in place. Wood props are largely held in place by friction with the prop hub and crush plate. If the fit is loose, like happened to me once, the prop can heat up to the smoking point where it is rubbing against the hub. Not a good thing. Jerry Liles AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com > >In a message dated 1/5/05 7:27:51 AM Pacific Standard Time, >morid@northland.lib.mi.us writes: > ><< > What is the purpose of the plate? I thought they were used only for wooden > props with wooden hubs. > Deke > > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 07:18:36 PM PST US From: "Steve Cooper" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Steel prop plate. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" Thanks for the information. I didn't have any choice...the lug inserts in my prop flange were 5/16. The prop is a Graphite Prince P-tip, 68" diameter. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Pearsall Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Steel prop plate. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" Steve, most small props such as on the Kitfox really do not have enough stress to require the larger bolts. If you have ever read the specs of the AN bolts, they are about 125,000 PSI tensile strength. I don't know what it would take to get the bolts to fail, but I am sure that the rest of the prop or plane would fail before your prop bolts broke. I used to carve my own wood props and even tested them to failure. In all cases the props broke long before the hub or bolts even showed any stress. The main thing is to torque them to the proper specs so the prop does not move on the hub, like Jerry Liles just mentioned. So I don't think you wrecked the prop, it just wasn't needed. Don Pearsall -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Cooper Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Steel prop plate. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" I have a question for you more experienced guys...I have a prop that originally came with 1/4" bolts. I drilled them out to fit 5/16" bolts. Did I ruin the prop? I haven't run it yet. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Liles Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Steel prop plate. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles The plate is necessary for a wood prop and optional for others. It serves to distribute the pressure of the mounting bolts over a wider area to reduce crushing of the wood fibers and also to increase the surface area providing friction to hold the prop in place. Wood props are largely held in place by friction with the prop hub and crush plate. If the fit is loose, like happened to me once, the prop can heat up to the smoking point where it is rubbing against the hub. Not a good thing. Jerry Liles AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com > >In a message dated 1/5/05 7:27:51 AM Pacific Standard Time, >morid@northland.lib.mi.us writes: > ><< > What is the purpose of the plate? I thought they were used only for wooden > props with wooden hubs. > Deke > > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 07:55:39 PM PST US From: Wwillyard@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tank Vents --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Wwillyard@aol.com In a message dated 1/5/2005 3:22:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com writes: It would be nice if we could find a float type check valve and mount it inside the fuel cap. It would breath both ways, but stop fuel from escaping. -------------------------------------------- I modified the Andair check valve that Aircraft Spruce sells to make it a float type check valve. I chose the non-bleed version, but either would work. I removed the internal spring and turned up cork floats on the lathe. I use 3M structural adhesive to bond the cork to the check plunger. I also started out with new NAPA fuel caps. I drilled the caps and used brass tubing to penetrate the cap so that it could be soldered at the fuel side of the cap after being flared. I check for free operation of the float every time I refuel. Those who are adding farings to their fuel caps will not appreciate my application, but I no longer get fuel stains on the tail surfaces during hard slips. I sent this information to Andair, but never got a response. I have submitted photos to the Metronics photo share. Bill W. Classic IV 912UL ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 09:25:18 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox 5 w/Jabiru 3300 Details From: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: I am a fan of this list for a few months now, have posted a few comments (but not a daily participator), and have had several people ask a few questions about my 5 and Jabiru combination as they are not real common. I thought I would throw a few details out there especially for those pondering engine choices and offer any help that I could. In Nov. I bought a 2-year old 5 with a 6-cylinder Jabiru 3300 in it after looking for more than a year at all the engine combinations that are available. The Fox is decked out and weighs 812lbs with a Sensinich W64ZK-44 prop (44"), Grove landing gear, Grove/Maule tail wheel, wheel pants, 6-pack instrument cluster, radio, transponder, color moving map GPS, Rocky Mountain engine analyzer, 5-function stick grip, CD player, etc. It had 145 hours on it when I bought it, has 160 now...only limited by rainy weather. It was built by an A&P for Southwest Airlines in Phoenix. Cruises easily under 75% power at 120mph and 6gph. Can push it to 85% power at 130mph at 7gph, but the extra 10mph is not worth the 1gph...besides, who that fly's a Fox is in a hurry??? Personally, I like flying it around at 90-110mph and 4.5-5.0gph, sometimes slower with the doors off. Full power is not needed to takeoff...I often don't use it. I can not believe the performance and how quiet and smooth the Jabiru is...I especially like the simplicity of it. It makes no difference if you have one or two people in the Fox...quarter full of gas or topped off, she JUMPS off the ground! I have had people ask about the cowling fit as that seems to be a common challenge...it is the Safari cowl and was extended to accommodate the longer 6-cylinder engine by a company that does boat repairs. From another post, I saw the following table re. weights and engine choices, I added my 3300 and the hp's: Engine Empty weight 912s (100hp) 750 lbs 3300 (120hp) 812lbs O-200 (100hp) 850 lbs O-235 (118hp) 900 lbs O-240 (125hp) 900 lbs Obviously all engine choices have their pros & cons and I'll stay away from that. I would, however, encourage anyone that is trying to decide which engine to use to take a look at a Jabiru (you are welcome to come fly mine) and their website is www.usjabiru.com. For those that already have an engine and don't want to spend any more money, I'd stay away from them...;-) Please let me know if I can help. Thanks, Lonnie ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 09:25:18 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Sport Planes --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Lowell, This one suprised me too. When this FAA rep/member told our club how to do it, I specifically asked him pointed home-built questions after the meeting. It seems that he is prepared now to clear the way for the club to STC a manufactured plane. But this is not the FAA rep that signed my KitFox off and I don't know him well enough to say it is written in stone. I would like to see a home-built STC'd to Sport Flight status before I totally believe it. But I throw this out to you all as a subject anyone can address with their FAA rep and see if it sells. Kurt S. --- Lowell Fitt wrote: > Kurt, I have not followed this whole issue that > closely as my airplane is a IV with the 1200 lb gross > wt, but it seems this is in opposition to other > information we have had in the past. It is my > experience that FAA guys sometimes will tell us > certain things and then sometimes forget what they > told us after a while. Just curious, but is your > source willing to put his information in writing for > the sake of the club and then put his name on it. > Not many are willing to do that. > > Lowell __________________________________ http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 09:25:44 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tank Vents --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Great Dee, --- Dee Young wrote: > Kurt I am on the road for a few days but will when I > come return. Have a nice week. Do not archive __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 09:33:20 PM PST US From: "David Savener" Subject: Kitfox-List: Oil Injection Tank Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 23:30:31 -0600 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David Savener" I am replacing my 532 with a 582 with oil injection. I have a 10 Gallon fuel tank. I'm thinking that I should have about a 48 oz. capacity in my oil tank. Does that sound about right? Does anyone know of an ideal tank for a reasonable price. I bought one from CPS but if I mount it on the firewall behind the engine, it nearly touches the top of the head. I'm concerned that it might get too hot. I've been looking for just the right Coolant recovery tank or Washer fluid reservoir. Haven't found it yet. How about I make one out of PVC pipe or something similar. I'd need a sight gauge in that case. Dave S ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 09:37:03 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Recall: Kitfox 5 w/Jabiru 3300 Details From: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tillinghast, Lonnie D. would like to recall the message, "Kitfox 5 w/Jabiru 3300 Details". ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 10:24:29 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Oil Injection Tank --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader David, Don't know about the size for sure. In my old 2 cycle days we used 20:1 fuel to oil. A little extra oil capacity is better than not enough. You can check for oil overflow and breather tanks at High Performance auto suppliers. I checked JEG's. They have several 1 QT (32 oz) size cans starting at $20. You could tie 2 together if you need the volume. They are small enough for most places and made for the application. The aluminum ones are better, but cost $40 and up. They have a 48 oz tank for cooling systems that could be used, but it is $100. Try here for samples: http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=6829&prmenbr=361 http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/CategoryDisplay?cgmenbr=361&cgrfnbr=762 and: http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=2462&prmenbr=361 kurt S. --- David Savener wrote: > I am replacing my 532 with a 582 with oil injection. > > I have a 10 Gallon fuel tank. I'm thinking that I > should have about a 48 oz. capacity in my oil tank. > > Does that sound about right? > > Does anyone know of an ideal tank for a reasonable > price. I bought one from CPS but if I mount it on > the firewall behind the engine, it nearly touches > the top of the head. I'm concerned that it might > get too hot. > > I've been looking for just the right Coolant > recovery tank or Washer fluid reservoir. Haven't > found it yet. > > How about I make one out of PVC pipe or something > similar. I'd need a sight gauge in that case. > > Dave S __________________________________ http://my.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 10:28:25 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox 5 w/Jabiru 3300 Details --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Lonnie, Just heard that you had one of these. Thanks for the info. Could you also post the climb rates you get as well. Some may question the loss due to the shorter props. Kurt S. S-5/NSI --- Lonnie_D._Tillinghast@oxy.com wrote: > I am a fan of this list for a few months now, have > posted a few comments (but not a daily participator), > and have had several people ask a few > questions about my 5 and Jabiru combination as they > are not real common. I thought I would throw a few > details out there especially for those > pondering engine choices and offer any help that I > could. ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 10:47:11 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tank Vents --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Bill, I think someone posted a pic of your vents awhile back. Very innovative! I was thinking of just caging a ball or cork float under the vent tube in the fuel cap. It would only stop fuel from exiting, but air could go both ways. Haven't done it yet. Maybe one of our three aftermarket KF suppliers on the list would like to tackle this one? Kurt S. --- Wwillyard@aol.com wrote: > I modified the Andair check valve that Aircraft > Spruce sells to make it a > float type check valve. I chose the non-bleed > version, but either would work. I > removed the internal spring and turned up cork > floats on the lathe. I use 3M > structural adhesive to bond the cork to the check > plunger. I also started out > with new NAPA fuel caps. I drilled the caps and > used brass tubing to > penetrate the cap so that it could be soldered at > the fuel side of the cap after > being flared. I check for free operation of the > float every time I refuel. Those > who are adding farings to their fuel caps will not > appreciate my > application, but I no longer get fuel stains on the > tail surfaces during hard slips. > > I sent this information to Andair, but never got a > response. > > I have submitted photos to the Metronics photo > share. > > Bill W. > Classic IV 912UL __________________________________ http://my.yahoo.com