---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 01/09/05: 50 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:24 AM - Re: model IV wing tanks (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 2. 05:16 AM - Re: Kitfox-DOOR LATCH QUESTION (Barbara & Keith Schneider) 3. 05:17 AM - alum vs steel wheels (Fox5flyer) 4. 05:39 AM - Chemical information MEK vs. Acetone () 5. 05:47 AM - Re: door latch question (David Savener) 6. 06:14 AM - wing tanks vents (Dee Young) 7. 07:29 AM - Re: door latch question (Lynn Matteson) 8. 07:51 AM - Re: Chemical information MEK vs. Acetone (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 9. 07:53 AM - Re: door latch question (Jeffrey Puls) 10. 08:31 AM - Re: Kitfox 4 engine upgrade (John Larsen) 11. 09:48 AM - Re: Tailwheel question (Kerry Skyring) 12. 10:04 AM - Re: Chemical information MEK vs. Acetone (Jim Crockett) 13. 10:38 AM - Re: door latch question (Lowell Fitt) 14. 10:54 AM - Re: Ground Handling (Lowell Fitt) 15. 10:55 AM - Re: door latch question (Lowell Fitt) 16. 11:12 AM - long XC (Fox5flyer) 17. 11:26 AM - Re: Ground Handling (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 18. 11:48 AM - Re: Ground Handling (roncarolnikko@webtv.net (Ron Schick)) 19. 11:49 AM - Re: wing tanks vents (kurt schrader) 20. 11:50 AM - Re: Ground Handling (~~Shorty~~) 21. 12:23 PM - Re: Ground Handling (Lowell Fitt) 22. 02:00 PM - Re: Ground Handling (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 23. 02:46 PM - Re: Ground Handling (roncarolnikko@webtv.net (Ron Schick)) 24. 02:50 PM - Fuel tank thread sealer () 25. 03:22 PM - Re: Fuel tank thread sealer (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 26. 03:33 PM - Re: Ground Handling (kurt schrader) 27. 03:40 PM - Hi Rex- (Rex & Jan Shaw) 28. 04:02 PM - 8" Aluminium rims (Rex & Jan Shaw) 29. 04:19 PM - Door pins (Rex & Jan Shaw) 30. 04:20 PM - Re: Fuel tank thread sealer (Brett Walmsley) 31. 04:25 PM - Grove undercarriage (Rex & Jan Shaw) 32. 04:34 PM - Re: Fuel tank thread sealer (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 33. 04:37 PM - Re: Engine coatings?? (Joel Mapes) 34. 04:43 PM - Re: Ground Handling (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 35. 04:54 PM - Re: Rad flap test (Guy Buchanan) 36. 04:57 PM - Re: Ground Handling (Lowell Fitt) 37. 05:05 PM - Re: 8" Aluminium rims (~~Shorty~~) 38. 05:11 PM - Re: Ground Handling (Lowell Fitt) 39. 05:12 PM - Re: Rad flap test (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 40. 05:21 PM - Re: Grove undercarriage (~~Shorty~~) 41. 05:22 PM - Re: model IV wing tanks (paul wilson) 42. 05:41 PM - Re: 8" Aluminium rims (Lynn Matteson) 43. 06:02 PM - Radio Noise (Jimmie Blackwell) 44. 06:07 PM - Re: Grove undercarriage (Cudnohufsky's) 45. 06:16 PM - Re: long XC (Jeffrey Puls) 46. 06:19 PM - Re: 8" Aluminium rims (Lynn Matteson) 47. 06:37 PM - Re: 8" Aluminium rims (~~Shorty~~) 48. 07:04 PM - Re: Sport Planes (kirk hull) 49. 07:11 PM - Re: long XC (kirk hull) 50. 08:42 PM - [ William Willyard ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:24:08 AM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: model IV wing tanks --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com In a message dated 1/8/05 5:39:22 PM Pacific Standard Time, pwilson@climber.org writes: << You can choose where expanded fuel drips. On top of the wing the way Skystar does it. out at the wing tip like Don does it. and under the wing like mine. >> Paul, One little correction. Mine exits out the bottom half way to the wing tip not all the way to the wing tip Do Not Archive Don Smythe N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:16:58 AM PST US From: "Barbara & Keith Schneider" Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-DOOR LATCH QUESTION --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Barbara & Keith Schneider" My 1994 IV came to me (4th owner) with the original door latch Lynn, I have the original two pin latch instructions from SkyStar. The IV kit I purchased second hand had this option, and a couple small parts were missing. I was able to purchase them from SkyStar, along with the constructiohn manual insert that covered instalation. This was a speedster option as I understand it. I would be glad to make you a copy and send to your address. Please let me know. Keith Schneider III & IV Waynesville Oh. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:17:18 AM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Kitfox-List: alum vs steel wheels --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" Well, you've got me on this one Rex. I wasn't aware there were any steel wheels out there. Maybe it was something that Skystar changed? Dunno, but I do know that the earlier Denny wheels were aluminum with the bosses welded on as you describe. Then again, maybe Denny supplied some steel wheels? Anybody out there that can clear this up? Deke Standing corrected in NE Michigan > > Hi ! Deke, > thanks for that info. I've had a few discussions on wheels > before and they have all been steel like mine, chromed with brake disc > mounting lugs welded on the back and the valve placed in line with a stud > making it arkward. Once at least I remember the person got back to me and > said "Yes their wheels were steel" They had thought they were aluminium. So > I was under the impression they were all steel. Obviously you know different > and I'm pleased to learn from you. On my posting I did however mention > things like the valve position for clarification in case I was wrong > assuming they probably had steel not aluminium. I seem to remember this > discussion was on the Skystar message board if that ever comes back. > I was talking at one stage with either Frank or Ed at Skystar re tyres as my > old scrubbed down ATV tyres were useless due to punctures all the time and > in course of that conversation these old 8" steel wheels were mentioned. So > in all it is obvious that Kitfox's did have 8" steel rims at one stage. > What I didn't know but did wonder about was that there ever was 8" aluminium > rims. Now that makes me jealous as I like the 8" part but I would prefer > lighter weight aluminium. I'm now curious if the brake dics on the aluminium > wheels were mounted direct on the rims with 3 welded on lugs and the > calipers operating from the inside of the disc annulus. > Rex > Classic IV 582 > rexjan@bigpond.com > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:39:04 AM PST US From: Subject: Kitfox-List: Chemical information MEK vs. Acetone --> Kitfox-List message posted by: I am having a little trouble understanding the different uses of MEK an Acetone. I know Stits uses MEK as a solvent for Poly-tak etc. And Skystar has recommended that I use Acetone to get the loose coating out of my fuel tanks. I wonder if MEK will melt the polyfiber fabric? Just curious if someone can post a quick and dirty on the most common uses and more importantly the "gotchas" concerning these two chemicals. I am aware of the health risks involved. Thanks, Brett ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:47:17 AM PST US From: "David Savener" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: door latch question Seal-Send-Time: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 07:45:10 -0600 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David Savener" Lynn, I have installed a "Double Pin Door Latch" system in my model II. I have the instructions. I can scan them then email them to you if that will help. However. My instructions state that "AIRCRAFT MUST BE EQUIPPED WITH DOUBLE CROSS TUBE DOORS #15062 AND #15063. ALSO, PART #82048 TABS SHOULD BE WELDED TO FUSELAGE. Also, you have to Manufacture four #13008 Pins from AN4C25A bolts. You have to cut the head off the bolt, then make it bullet shaped then they attach to the push-pull tubes that attach to the bellcranks. Mine work well, though they took a long time to fabricate and install. If I had it to do over again, I would use a much simpler design, like a "pull it shut and turn the knob" system. I could send digital pictures of my system if you like. Dave S ----- Original Message ----- From: Lynn Matteson To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 10:48 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: door latch question --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson > Thanks for the answer, Jeff. That makes perfect sense, however I worry about the whole lower half of the door is "not latched" with this design. And SS DID change their design for whatever reason. Anyway, I haven't figured out yet what the actual "pin" is, unless the four bolts that don't seem to go anywhere else are somehow shaped to use as the pins. Without the instruction manual or sheet, I'm having to imagineer how they intended it to work. I'll lay out all the parts and see if it makes more sense then. I understand the bellcrank part and the two actuating rods, just not the pin design. Lynn On Saturday, January 8, 2005, at 11:13 PM, Jeffrey Puls wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Puls" > > > > Lynn, > I have flown both and have been very disappointed with the retro kit. > The > double pin is far superior. The single latch has a tendency to bow out > in > the slip stream. The pins are solid. I had to redo my doors with a > double > locking system. Go for the bellcrank, more work but you will be > happier. > Jeff Classic IV > > >> [Original Message] >> From: Lynn Matteson > >> To: > >> Date: 1/8/2005 3:11:23 PM >> Subject: Kitfox-List: door latch question >> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson > >> I have no instructions for the >> Speedster/Double-pin kit. I have the later manual which shows how to >> deal with the "retro-fit kit". Which is the better of the two systems, >> and does anybody have the instructions for either? >> >> Lynn >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:14:51 AM PST US From: "Dee Young" Subject: Kitfox-List: wing tanks vents Seal-Send-Time: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 07:13:43 -0700 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" Kurt, did you get the photos I sent a couple days back? Dee Do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:29:48 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: door latch question From: Lynn Matteson --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson Thanks for all the input regarding the door latch question. I've responded to folks via email and am getting some instructions headed my way. I've got all the parts that Dave mentions below, just lacking instructions and maybe a part or two. Lynn do not archive On Sunday, January 9, 2005, at 08:45 AM, David Savener wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David Savener" > > > Lynn, > > I have installed a "Double Pin Door Latch" system in my model II. I > have the instructions. I can scan them then email them to you if that > will help. However. My instructions state that "AIRCRAFT MUST BE > EQUIPPED WITH DOUBLE CROSS TUBE DOORS #15062 AND #15063. ALSO, PART > #82048 TABS SHOULD BE WELDED TO FUSELAGE. > > Also, you have to Manufacture four #13008 Pins from AN4C25A bolts. > You have to cut the head off the bolt, then make it bullet shaped then > they attach to the push-pull tubes that attach to the bellcranks. > > Mine work well, though they took a long time to fabricate and install. > If I had it to do over again, I would use a much simpler design, like > a "pull it shut and turn the knob" system. > > I could send digital pictures of my system if you like. > > Dave S > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lynn Matteson > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 10:48 PM > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: door latch question > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:51:50 AM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Chemical information MEK vs. Acetone --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com << I am having a little trouble understanding the different uses of MEK an Acetone. I know Stits uses MEK as a solvent for Poly-tak etc. And Skystar has recommended that I use Acetone to get the loose coating out of my fuel tanks. I wonder if MEK will melt the polyfiber fabric? Just curious if someone can post a quick and dirty on the most common uses and more importantly the "gotchas" concerning these two chemicals. I am aware of the health risks involved. Thanks, Brett >> Brett, Here is my 2 cents. I assume the loose coatings you are referring to is "Kreeme" tank sloshing compound. I also assume you're talking about all Poly Fiber products. First, MEK will not melt the Poly Fiber "Fabric" but will play havoc on paint and other Poly Fiber coatings (Poly Brush/Spray). For removing Kreem inside the tanks, I would use Acetone. It is much cheaper than MEK, probably safer and does just as good a job. Poly Fiber sells a reducer for their Poly Tone paints and Poly Brush/Spray. When I painted my stripes on the plane, I was out of the Poly Fiber reducer and was in a hurry to get the job done. I used straight MEK as a reducer for the Poly Tone paint and it worked just fine. There again, MEK is a lot cheaper than Poly Fiber reducer. I'm not ready to say that I would never use their reducer and opt for straight MEK but in a pinch, it worked fine. Don Smythe N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:53:37 AM PST US From: "Jeffrey Puls" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: door latch question --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Puls" I'm sure someone on the list can send you a copy of the plans out of their manual. > [Original Message] > From: Lynn Matteson > To: > Date: 1/8/2005 11:47:44 PM > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: door latch question > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson > > Thanks for the answer, Jeff. That makes perfect sense, however I worry > about the whole lower half of the door is "not latched" with this > design. And SS DID change their design for whatever reason. Anyway, I > haven't figured out yet what the actual "pin" is, unless the four bolts > that don't seem to go anywhere else are somehow shaped to use as the > pins. Without the instruction manual or sheet, I'm having to imagineer > how they intended it to work. I'll lay out all the parts and see if it > makes more sense then. I understand the bellcrank part and the two > actuating rods, just not the pin design. > > Lynn > > On Saturday, January 8, 2005, at 11:13 PM, Jeffrey Puls wrote: > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Puls" > > > > > > Lynn, > > I have flown both and have been very disappointed with the retro kit. > > The > > double pin is far superior. The single latch has a tendency to bow out > > in > > the slip stream. The pins are solid. I had to redo my doors with a > > double > > locking system. Go for the bellcrank, more work but you will be > > happier. > > Jeff Classic IV > > > > > >> [Original Message] > >> From: Lynn Matteson > >> To: > >> Date: 1/8/2005 3:11:23 PM > >> Subject: Kitfox-List: door latch question > >> > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson > >> I have no instructions for the > >> Speedster/Double-pin kit. I have the later manual which shows how to > >> deal with the "retro-fit kit". Which is the better of the two systems, > >> and does anybody have the instructions for either? > >> > >> Lynn > >> > >> > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:31:50 AM PST US From: John Larsen Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox 4 engine upgrade --> Kitfox-List message posted by: John Larsen After writing the Engine Beat column for Kitplanes for years and spending a lot of time on engine comparison, I can only say Steve had a poor 618 Rotax. Steve Cooper wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" > >OK! Lets hold our horses right there. I fly an Avid with a Jabiru 2200. >While I do not fly with floats...I have NO DOUBT that the engine delivers >sufficient power to handle them. My previous engine was a 670 RAVE. The Jab >produces equal to better performance than the Rotax "winder-upper" at about >3.5 gallons per hour. Now wait a minute! Which 2200 did you friend have? Was >it the one with the bigger cam and steel rods? Or was it an early 65 horse >version? I bought a prince prop from a guy who flys an older version Jabiru. >His engine would NOT turn that prop any faster than 3300 rpm. I put the prop >on my engine and I see 3760 on CLIMB OUT for crying out loud!. And what this >milarky about prop diameter? Check the charts friends. Max RPM on the Jab is >3300 rpm, hell; a 68" prop is still only 85% of supersonic! Both the 2200 >and the 3300 run the same max RPM: 3300 and yes, there is no >gearbox...neither does a Lycoming or Continental!!!:) > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >av8rps@tznet.com >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox 4 engine upgrade > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: > >Ron: > >A friend switched his Avid Mark IV over to a Jabiru after flying on a 582 >for years. He too wanted to go to floats, although just straight >(non-amphib) type. He liked the Jabiru for it's fuel economy, smoothness, >and reliability. The first year he operated on wheels. But the second year > >when he put it on floats he was disappointed with the performance. Even >solo in that light Avid airframe (530 lbs on wheels if I remember correctly) > >it was underpowered. He crashed the airplane shortly after it was put on >floats in an accident that happened from hitting large waves after not being > >able to lift off in a reasonable distance. It was his opinion that the >engine just doesn't develop enough thrust for what a seaplane needs (a >seaplane needs all the thrust as you can get). Consequently large diameter >props are typically required. The Jab spins too many rpm's to turn a long >propellor efficiently. Possibly the larger Jabiru might work better, but I >believe it also runs higher rpms without aid of a gearbox (??). So that one > >I'm not sure about. But if it were me I'd go with the sure thing for a >Model IV amphib, the 100 hp 912 Rotax. And if your floats and airframe are >light, even that 582 will work ok. I've flown lots of Avids and Kitfoxes on > >straight floats with 532-582 engines. They are great performers off the >water with that engine, so they will still be ok as an amphib I'm sure. But > >that 912s will put you in the Supercub class. > >But....this is just my opinion after flying Avids and Kitfoxes for 1200+ >hours, mostly on floats... > >Paul Seehafer >Central Wisconsin > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Ron & Nancy Smith" >To: >Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox 4 engine upgrade > > > > >>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron & Nancy Smith" >> >>I recently bought a flying kitfox 4 with a rotax 582. I want to put the >>A/C on amphib floats, and the 582 doesn't have the horses. It seems to me >> >> > > > >>that the Jabiru engine is the most cost effective for greater hp. Can The >> >> > > > >>Jabiru 3300 be put in a kitfox 4, or is the 2200 a better option. I would >> >> > > > >>like to sell or trade my present engine. What could I expect to get for >>the 582 firewall forward with a GSC prop, presently 35 hours on the >>engine. I also would appreciate other suggestions for engine >>alternatives. Thanks, Ron >> >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:48:34 AM PST US From: "Kerry Skyring" Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: Tailwheel question --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kerry Skyring" Thanks to all those who replied. We are going to stay with the standard set up for the first 200 hours or so and then change over to grove springs or whatever Skystar comes up with. The question actually was about the leaf springs rather than the tailwheel itself - this being the (apparently) weak point. We figure we have enough problems to solve at the moment without creating another one. Kerry PS today we riveted the flaperon brackets to the wing. All went well. And I haven't forgotten that us European Kitfoxers once, on this list, talked about getting together somewhere in France. We should be flying in the summer. But I think I said that last summer. > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:04:32 AM PST US From: Jim Crockett Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Chemical information MEK vs. Acetone --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Crockett I echo everything Don had to say about Acetone & MEK. In addition - I believe MEK to be much more dangerous to use than Acetone. But the principal difference is that MEK is a slow-drying solvent and Acetone much faster. Thus, in cases where you need a slow drying solvent, MEK is the way to go. But in all other cases I use Acetone. It also works great to clean out your paint gun and is cheap. Jim Crockett AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com > ><< I am having a little trouble understanding the different uses of MEK an > Acetone. I know Stits uses MEK as a solvent for Poly-tak etc. And Skystar > has recommended that I use Acetone to get the loose coating out of my fuel > tanks. I wonder if MEK will melt the polyfiber fabric? Just curious if > someone can post a quick and dirty on the most common uses and more > importantly the "gotchas" concerning these two chemicals. I am aware of the > health risks involved. > Thanks, Brett > >> > >Brett, > Here is my 2 cents. I assume the loose coatings you are referring to is >"Kreeme" tank sloshing compound. I also assume you're talking about all Poly >Fiber products. First, MEK will not melt the Poly Fiber "Fabric" but will >play havoc on paint and other Poly Fiber coatings (Poly Brush/Spray). > For removing Kreem inside the tanks, I would use Acetone. It is much >cheaper than MEK, probably safer and does just as good a job. > Poly Fiber sells a reducer for their Poly Tone paints and Poly >Brush/Spray. When I painted my stripes on the plane, I was out of the Poly Fiber >reducer and was in a hurry to get the job done. I used straight MEK as a reducer >for the Poly Tone paint and it worked just fine. There again, MEK is a lot >cheaper than Poly Fiber reducer. I'm not ready to say that I would never use >their reducer and opt for straight MEK but in a pinch, it worked fine. > >Don Smythe >N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:38:39 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: door latch question --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Hi, Lynn, When the kits were being sold, the "Double Pin Door Latch" was sold as an upgrade. It was later discontinued. I believe it was because builders found that the door would flare out at the bottom with the double pin latch system - something about Bernoulli, I believe - and they were adding the bottom latch also to keep the door closed. Then they moved to just the bottom latch. I have the bottom latch only - likely to budgetary issues at the time of kit purchase - and have had no issues with it. It is simple and positive. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" Subject: Kitfox-List: door latch question > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson > > My 1994 IV came to me (4th owner) with the original door latch > (uninstalled) which mounts midway up the door height, and has a > bellcrank and two latches...fore and aft of the door opening. Parts > bags for this option are called"Speedster fuselage kit" and all parts > are powdercoated with the same color as the fuselage (and everything > else). Other parts bags are marked "Door latch-double pin kit". The > plane also came with a "Door latch retro fit kit", which mounts the > single latch at the bottom of the door. I have no instructions for the > Speedster/Double-pin kit. I have the later manual which shows how to > deal with the "retro-fit kit". Which is the better of the two systems, > and does anybody have the instructions for either? > > Lynn > > > BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > ------------------------------------------------------ > Teach CanIt if this mail (ID 75060467) is spam: > Spam: http://login.safereach.com/b.php?c=s&i=75060467&m=734a29e63254 > Not spam: http://login.safereach.com/b.php?c=n&i=75060467&m=734a29e63254 > Forget vote: http://login.safereach.com/b.php?c=f&i=75060467&m=734a29e63254 > ------------------------------------------------------ > END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:54:09 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ground Handling --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" For builders and those that are ready to fly. Ground handling is not an issue on the Kitfox if the wheels are aligned properly. For anyone that finds the Kitfox skittish on the ground, the first thing to do is check the main wheel alignment. Toe in will make our airplanes feel uncontrollable at worst and uncomfortable at best. I don't think there will be any difference in controllability with the Grove vs. the bungee if everything is straight. If one were to get to the limits of controllability with inadequate rudder control, I think there would be a bit more margin for error with the Grove due to it's wider track. The alignment is accomplished by bending the tube gear weldment,and using shims on the Grove gear assembly. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jimmie Blackwell" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: I need an 8 inch original aluminum wheel. > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" > > Lynn > > Having flown with the bungee and Grove gear, I highly recommend the Grove > gear. Makes the Kitfox a lot easier to handle on the ground. If I learned > to handle it with bungee gear I am sure you could. The Grove gear just > makes it feel a lot more controllable. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:55:05 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: door latch question --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Jeff, thanks for your post. I stand corrected. I do have the single latch at the bottom and have no problems with door bowing. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Puls" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: door latch question > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Puls" > > Lynn, > I have flown both and have been very disappointed with the retro kit. The > double pin is far superior. The single latch has a tendency to bow out in > the slip stream. The pins are solid. I had to redo my doors with a double > locking system. Go for the bellcrank, more work but you will be happier. > Jeff Classic IV > > > > [Original Message] > > From: Lynn Matteson > > To: > > Date: 1/8/2005 3:11:23 PM > > Subject: Kitfox-List: door latch question > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson > > > > My 1994 IV came to me (4th owner) with the original door latch > > (uninstalled) which mounts midway up the door height, and has a > > bellcrank and two latches...fore and aft of the door opening. Parts > > bags for this option are called"Speedster fuselage kit" and all parts > > are powdercoated with the same color as the fuselage (and everything > > else). Other parts bags are marked "Door latch-double pin kit". The > > plane also came with a "Door latch retro fit kit", which mounts the > > single latch at the bottom of the door. I have no instructions for the > > Speedster/Double-pin kit. I have the later manual which shows how to > > deal with the "retro-fit kit". Which is the better of the two systems, > > and does anybody have the instructions for either? > > > > Lynn > > > > > > > BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > ------------------------------------------------------ > Teach CanIt if this mail (ID 75305591) is spam: > Spam: http://login.safereach.com/b.php?c=s&i=75305591&m=f6c40fcd5868 > Not spam: http://login.safereach.com/b.php?c=n&i=75305591&m=f6c40fcd5868 > Forget vote: http://login.safereach.com/b.php?c=f&i=75305591&m=f6c40fcd5868 > ------------------------------------------------------ > END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:12:51 AM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Kitfox-List: long XC --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" Next Wednesday I'll be flying commercial from here in Michigan to Florida. The purpose is to pick up a Kitfox and fly it home shortly after as the weather permits. I don't really know what my route will be, but I've got all the charts, directories, and current GPS196. The plan is to fly point to point about 2.5 hours per leg with refueling at each stop, close old flight plan and open a new one each time. The reason for point to point is to keep my route and stops flexible. It's nearly 1200 miles and I figure about 11-12 hours flying time so I plan to take at least two days to make the trip, however with weather it can easily take longer. My route will be generally direct from Tampa area, northward to somewhere near Knoxville, and onward up to NE Michigan. If flying conditions allow I'm hoping to get 8 hours in the first day, but it's flexible. Anybody along that route that can recommend some fuel/food stops? Any airports that have accomodations within walking or courtesy car distance? I haven't made a long cross country in a long time so any help or advice would be appreciated. Thanks, Deke Morisse NE Michigan ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:26:56 AM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ground Handling --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com In a message dated 1/9/05 10:54:58 AM Pacific Standard Time, lcfitt@inreach.com writes: << The alignment is accomplished by bending the tube gear weldment,and using shims on the Grove gear assembly. >> Lowell, Speaking of shim on the Grove gear. My tires wear quickly on the outside edge due to not sitting square on the ground. I've had to remove and turn the tires around once. Can you shim for this condition? Don Smythe N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:48:54 AM PST US From: roncarolnikko@webtv.net (Ron Schick) Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ground Handling --> Kitfox-List message posted by: roncarolnikko@webtv.net (Ron Schick) Lowell my Speedster project has a tailwheel that looks like it is mounted wrong. The swivel pin is angled such that it wants to turn sideways rather than go straight. When it is straight the tail comes up and then falls down and sideways. Is the solution to bend the spring up in the back to make the swivel pin exactly vertical, or can I go even farther so it prefers to "fall" as the wheel aligns straight? Hardly a problem for taxiing yet, but is a pain pushing the bare frame around the garage. Still flyin a tricycle that needs no tail so I can see my problems ahead. Thanx Ron ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:49:06 AM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: wing tanks vents --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Sorry Dee, I got busy again. No, all I got were the captions, but not the pics. Please try again with them as attachments (to my e-mail address again) OK? Been too busy lately. Haven't finished my annual since October, so I am scheduled to fly a Champ in an hour instead. Can't NOT fly ya' know. :-) Kurt S. --- Dee Young wrote: > Kurt, did you get the photos I sent a couple days > back? > > > Dee > > Do not archive ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:50:01 AM PST US From: "~~Shorty~~" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ground Handling --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "~~Shorty~~" Don, Have you measured your toe? In or out ? You can first make sure you spn your wheels to make sure they are tru( no wobble) Then if true just measure from inside the wheels at front at axle height then Measure at the same heigth on tire at the same point of inside of tire at rear of asle. Or just use actual rim - just make sure if the same on both sides --front and rear for accuracy. You can do with tail on ground or raised in air or both as they should be close to the same unless you got a really bent axle stub. Improper toe wil cause wear as well and scalloping if extreme but you would notice the ground handling to be more wandering if it was that bad one would think. Excessive Camber could also contribute to tire wear But then agai ntoo excessive tilt would casue a pulling to the higher postive camber (Camber is viewed from straight on looking from front of plane. It is the angle of tilt from perpendicular to the ground. ) I have flown KF and Avids with both cambers (postive and negative) and never really noticed much control issues or tire wear. But i rarely visit those asphault strips or are they called runways? LOL When you figure how much you really are on ground i cannot see tire wear an issue for many of hundred s of hours unless you a trainer on Pavement. Also the as the knee action of the suspension compresses and unloads you camber will change with the weight as well. But once again this should not change the handling much. Hope this helps yah. Shorty ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ground Handling > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com > > In a message dated 1/9/05 10:54:58 AM Pacific Standard Time, > lcfitt@inreach.com writes: > > << > The alignment is accomplished by bending the tube gear weldment,and using > shims on the Grove gear assembly. > >> > > Lowell, > Speaking of shim on the Grove gear. My tires wear quickly on the outside > edge due to not sitting square on the ground. I've had to remove and turn > the tires around once. Can you shim for this condition? > > Don Smythe > N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:23:59 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ground Handling --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Ron, From your post, I am assuming that you are in the early stages of construction, If so you might shim with washers to correct the problem as it is now for ease as you say of moving the project around in the garage, but when you finish putting the airplane together, the weight will collapse the spring a bit and should correct the pivot alignment. That said, the alignment is pretty important to reduce the tailwheel from shimmying like all the shopping carts I seem to get stuck with. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Schick" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ground Handling > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: roncarolnikko@webtv.net (Ron Schick) > > Lowell my Speedster project has a tailwheel that looks like it is > mounted wrong. The swivel pin is angled such that it wants to turn > sideways rather than go straight. When it is straight the tail comes up > and then falls down and sideways. Is the solution to bend the spring up > in the back to make the swivel pin exactly vertical, or can I go even > farther so it prefers to "fall" as the wheel aligns straight? Hardly a > problem for taxiing yet, but is a pain pushing the bare frame around the > garage. Still flyin a tricycle that needs no tail so I can see my > problems ahead. Thanx Ron > > > BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > ------------------------------------------------------ > Teach CanIt if this mail (ID 75720243) is spam: > Spam: http://login.safereach.com/b.php?c=s&i=75720243&m=217baecc17f7 > Not spam: http://login.safereach.com/b.php?c=n&i=75720243&m=217baecc17f7 > Forget vote: http://login.safereach.com/b.php?c=f&i=75720243&m=217baecc17f7 > ------------------------------------------------------ > END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:00:25 PM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ground Handling --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com In a message dated 1/9/05 11:50:23 AM Pacific Standard Time, shortnaked@golden.net writes: << Don, Have you measured your toe? In or out ? You can first make sure you spn your wheels to make sure they are tru( no wobble) Then if true just measure from inside the wheels at front at a >> Shorty, I must admit, I have never checked wheel alignment. High and Low speed taxi is very stable. When standing in front of the plane, it is obvious to the eye that the outsides of the tires are holding all the weight (that's the wear side). I asked Grove about this once and they said that everything would come together once the plane was complete and all the weight was added. Well, it didn't. I have a C-180 traildragger sitting next to me in the hanger. He has about the same visual profile as mine but, his tires don't wear as bad. On the other hand, I have about 300 more landing than his during the same time frame. It could be alignment and I've always thought it was the spring gear not bent just right. Don Smythe N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:46:53 PM PST US From: roncarolnikko@webtv.net (Ron Schick) Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ground Handling --> Kitfox-List message posted by: roncarolnikko@webtv.net (Ron Schick) Lowell the plane had been assembled to the point that the wings were on. Even with the wings folded back the spring did not collapse to any improvement. the washers would have to be permanent, or some other method of alignment used. It looks as though I need to bend the spring about five degrees or more. Does everyone elses spring work as delivered? Ron ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:50:26 PM PST US From: Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuel tank thread sealer --> Kitfox-List message posted by: I'm just full of questions today. Is Permatex 9A still the best thread sealer for the rotomolded header tank and fiberglass fuel tank fittings? Brett ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:22:56 PM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel tank thread sealer --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com In a message dated 1/9/05 2:51:07 PM Pacific Standard Time, brettandsandy@numail.org writes: << I'm just full of questions today. Is Permatex 9A still the best thread sealer for the rotomolded header tank and fiberglass fuel tank fittings? Brett >> Brett, The discussion of the best thread sealant has been going on since forever. One thing that was once mentioned was, to slightly pre-heat the poly threads prior to assembly (using whatever threadsealer). Worked for me and have never had a leak at the poly tank end. Don Smythe N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 03:33:35 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ground Handling --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Don, Maybe you don't weigh enough? Make sure you look at the plane with 2 pax in the seats and see where the wheels are. Also, the shims can be installed in any of 4 directions - toe in or out, and wheels tilted in or out. Problem is that the shims only change the angle a little. I think the largest shim is 3 degrees. Longer bolts and maybe 2 shims might help, but maybe a picture of your plane to grove might do better. They migh adjust it for you?? Kurt S. --- AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/9/05 11:50:23 AM Pacific > Standard Time, > shortnaked@golden.net writes: > > << Don, > > Have you measured your toe? In or out ? You can > first make sure you spn your > wheels to make sure they are tru( no wobble) > Then if true just measure from inside the wheels at > front at a >> > > Shorty, > I must admit, I have never checked wheel > alignment. High and Low speed > taxi is very stable. When standing in front of the > plane, it is obvious to the > eye that the outsides of the tires are holding all > the weight (that's the > wear side). I asked Grove about this once and they > said that everything would > come together once the plane was complete and all > the weight was added. Well, > it didn't. I have a C-180 traildragger sitting next > to me in the hanger. He > has about the same visual profile as mine but, his > tires don't wear as bad. On > the other hand, I have about 300 more landing than > his during the same time > frame. It could be alignment and I've always > thought it was the spring gear > not bent just right. > > Don Smythe > N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 03:40:24 PM PST US From: "Rex & Jan Shaw" Subject: Kitfox-List: Hi Rex- --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" Hi Rex- I just checked my original(?) 8" wheels with a magnet, and they are definitely aluminum. Lynn I,ve answered you off list as it might take up too much room but basically the tyres to replace the buffed down ATV"s are called Lawnmower or Turf tyres. The ATV's are 20 x 7 x 8 2ply scrubbed down and the turf tyres are 18 x 6.50 x 8 4 ply. They have a fine tread that won't worry you. I fitted tubes in mine. The tyres cost about $50US each and are readilly available. I run 14 PSI. They sit perhaps1" lower but otherwise fill the pant the same but don't touch at all. They are brilliant. Rex. rexjan@bigpond.com ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 04:02:44 PM PST US From: "Rex & Jan Shaw" Subject: Kitfox-List: 8" Aluminium rims --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" Hi Rex- I can tell you for certain that the wheels on my IV are 8", are aluminum, do have the brake lugs welded onto the inside of the rims, and that the calipers (Matco) operate on the inner portion of the brake disc. I just this past day or so disassembled them and lightened the discs according to the drawing in my manual. The discs were at 26 oz. to start with and following the instructions, they were reduced to 13 oz each. There was a lot of unnecessary metal at the outer periphery of those discs....not any more! Ninety-six 1/4" holes drilled (on the two discs) and some time spent with the band saw took care of that. Lynn Thanks Lynn for that detail. I've learnt a fair bit here. I thought with the ATV tyres replaced on my rims I wanted for nothing else. However it sounds like your aluminium rims might be a direct replacement and lighter. It also seems they don't have the valve inline with a wheel stud so in all I would consider the aluminium rims an improvement on my steel ones. I now see some pictures of similar rims on the Douglas site. They have 4 wheel studs. I have more and I'm almost certain it's 6. How many do you have. Rex. rexjan@bigpond.com ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 04:19:30 PM PST US From: "Rex & Jan Shaw" Subject: Kitfox-List: Door pins --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" Anyway, I haven't figured out yet what the actual "pin" is, unless the four bolts that don't seem to go anywhere else are somehow shaped to use as the pins. Hope mine is not different and I confuse you but I have square pins. Rex. rexjan@bigpond.com ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 04:20:08 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel tank thread sealer From: "Brett Walmsley" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" Don, Did you use Permatex 9A? Brett > never had a leak at the poly tank end. > > Don Smythe > N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 04:25:27 PM PST US From: "Rex & Jan Shaw" Subject: Kitfox-List: Grove undercarriage --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" I'm really debating this Grove gear thing...I like the looks of the IV with the bungee gear...looks nostalgic. I'm gathering info right now, so thanks for that, Jimmie. Yeah, I hear you on the "so many things I want to buy" thing...without a wife as a check on my checkbook, I can get real stupid about buying things. : ) I'm with Jimmie, I think the grove gear is the way to go having it on my plane but not experienced the bungee gear admittedly. However talking to others with the bungee gear they envy my Grove gear and I have never seen sign of a ground loop yet and feel it's due to tha Grove gear. Rex. rexjan@bigpond.com ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 04:34:08 PM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel tank thread sealer --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com In a message dated 1/9/05 4:20:39 PM Pacific Standard Time, kitfox4@numail.org writes: << Don, Did you use Permatex 9A? Brett >> I used a Permtex brand but, 9N doesn't ring a bell. Go For a good sealant and see what happens. I personally don't think it makes a big difference. I have all the same connections as you and everyone else. Leaks are rare... Don Smythe N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 04:37:14 PM PST US From: "Joel Mapes" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine coatings?? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Joel Mapes" Wow! for 59 bucks it's too bad I can't powder coat Poly Fiber. Joel series 5 912 ULS Aerocomp Amphibs "be flying this year" ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 04:43:13 PM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ground Handling --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com In a message dated 1/9/05 3:34:16 PM Pacific Standard Time, smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com writes: << Don, Maybe you don't weigh enough? Make >> Kurt, A little history...The List helped name my airplane. FAT ALBERT was the first choice but we decided on FAT ALBERTA to give it a feminine nature. That carries through also to my email name. To say that my plane does not weigh enough is on the other side of the scale. My original empty weight was 667. That is a Classic IV with 582. I definitely weigh enough. Don Smythe N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 04:54:12 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rad flap test --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan At 04:53 PM 1/8/2005 -0500, you wrote: >Initial conclusion: The two independently controlled rad flaps allow great >control of the overall water temps. > >Don Smythe >N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 Don, Wonderful! Thanks so much for doing this testing. I'm looking forward to driving the flaps with a thermocouple driven servo. Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 04:57:03 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ground Handling --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Don, I suspect that the visual look is engineered into the gear legs with the idea of predicting the relaxation of the gear under load, moving the contact on the tire more toward the center. I suspect it has to do with where it should be at maximum gross wt. Actually, I only remember seeing one Kitfox with the spring gear that didn't look a bit bow legged and that was Michael Harter's. I like the light on it's wheels look - but that is an opinion - I don't really know if the tires should ride on the center of the tread. I talked to a fellow this morning on the phone and his wears only on the edge of only one tire. I think that is unusual and deserves some thought. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ground Handling > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com > > In a message dated 1/9/05 10:54:58 AM Pacific Standard Time, > lcfitt@inreach.com writes: > > << > The alignment is accomplished by bending the tube gear weldment,and using > shims on the Grove gear assembly. > >> > > Lowell, > Speaking of shim on the Grove gear. My tires wear quickly on the outside > edge due to not sitting square on the ground. I've had to remove and turn > the tires around once. Can you shim for this condition? > > Don Smythe > N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 > > > BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > ------------------------------------------------------ > Teach CanIt if this mail (ID 75707428) is spam: > Spam: http://login.safereach.com/b.php?c=s&i=75707428&m=ec2f55557427 > Not spam: http://login.safereach.com/b.php?c=n&i=75707428&m=ec2f55557427 > Forget vote: http://login.safereach.com/b.php?c=f&i=75707428&m=ec2f55557427 > ------------------------------------------------------ > END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > > ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 05:05:44 PM PST US From: "~~Shorty~~" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 8" Aluminium rims --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "~~Shorty~~" The douglas Site does not seem to show the 6 lug version as used on the Kitfox. However they are alum and look like they started as about 1/4" and it is a spun wheel . The wheel Bolts to the Turned Billet hub with 6 AN bolts. If i go out to hangar tonight I wil take some pics for you. Lynn - The Matco do not operate on one side if the rotor, they work on both sides. As the fluid pressure increases, the piston will come out and excert a pressure on the one side but as that happens the caliper slides and excerts equal or near equal pressure to the other side of the rotor. If your calipers do not slide your brakes will work at less efficiency and will wear one pad only. Glad to hear you lightened your rotors, now are you gonna turn the inside of the spindle as well? you will save I think about 1 or 1 1/2 pounds more from lightening them. Hope this helps you, Shorty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rex & Jan Shaw" Subject: Kitfox-List: 8" Aluminium rims > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" > > Hi Rex- > I can tell you for certain that the wheels on my IV are 8", are > aluminum, do have the brake lugs welded onto the inside of the rims, > and that the calipers (Matco) operate on the inner portion of the brake > disc. I just this past day or so disassembled them and lightened the > discs according to the drawing in my manual. The discs were at 26 oz. > to start with and following the instructions, they were reduced to 13 > oz each. There was a lot of unnecessary metal at the outer periphery of > those discs....not any more! Ninety-six 1/4" holes drilled (on the two > discs) and some time spent with the band saw took care of that. > > Lynn > > Thanks Lynn > for that detail. I've learnt a fair bit here. I thought > with the ATV tyres replaced on my rims I wanted for nothing else. However it > sounds like your aluminium rims might be a direct replacement and lighter. > It also seems they don't have the valve inline with a wheel stud so in all I > would consider the aluminium rims an improvement on my steel ones. I now see > some pictures of similar rims on the Douglas site. They have 4 wheel studs. > I have more and I'm almost certain it's 6. How many do you have. > Rex. > rexjan@bigpond.com > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 05:11:17 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ground Handling --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" OK Ron, that clears it up a bit. The washer suggestion was only if you wanted to improve the angle temporarily. Regarding the work as designed, mine did. I have the original factory double leaf spring and have had both the Maule and Home Builder's Special tail wheel. Both worked as advertised. If you would like to try a shim contact me direct. lcfitt@inreach.com I can make the tail wheel shims. I am not very good at trig anymore, so give me the width, length and thickness desired at the thick end assuming the thin end to be zero. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Schick" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ground Handling > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: roncarolnikko@webtv.net (Ron Schick) > > Lowell the plane had been assembled to the point that the wings were on. > Even with the wings folded back the spring did not collapse to any > improvement. > the washers would have to be permanent, or some other method of > alignment used. It looks as though I need to bend the spring about five > degrees or more. Does everyone elses spring work as delivered? Ron > > > BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > ------------------------------------------------------ > Teach CanIt if this mail (ID 75822682) is spam: > Spam: http://login.safereach.com/b.php?c=s&i=75822682&m=7394a823833a > Not spam: http://login.safereach.com/b.php?c=n&i=75822682&m=7394a823833a > Forget vote: http://login.safereach.com/b.php?c=f&i=75822682&m=7394a823833a > ------------------------------------------------------ > END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > > ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 05:12:17 PM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rad flap test --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com In a message dated 1/9/05 4:54:41 PM Pacific Standard Time, bnn@nethere.com writes: << Don, Wonderful! Thanks so much for doing this testing. I'm looking forward to driving the flaps with a thermocouple driven servo. >> Guy, It's all about experimentation. However, be careful because every good idea has drawbacks. Stand by to be bit???? Don Smythe N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 05:21:01 PM PST US From: "~~Shorty~~" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Grove undercarriage --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "~~Shorty~~" Rex, << However talking to others with the bungee gear they envy my Grove gear and I have never seen sign of a ground loop yet and feel it's due to tha Grove gear. >> I have flown KT and Avids as well as many other taildraggers woth a bungee suspension and Never have ground looped. (i will add YET -- just in case :-) ) I think the Grove gear is fine but Also feel that pilot proficency is a must. If you cannot fly a taildragger or are a lazy on the ground trigear pilot the choice of gear will only be a vsion in your mind that will benefit you. Mind you if any gear is not properly aligned you will have difficulty. Perhaps anyone having handling issues should have another Type rated pilot to try out your and see what they think. My opinion is it no matter if you on wheel , skis or floats.you are in a flying machine and you better learn all aspects of slow flight adn landing in all kinda of conditions now matte what gear you got. Havin Grove gear may look nice but it ain;t gonna save your bacon when you cannot land your fox ina 500 foot strip with ease. Hope this helps you Rex, Shorty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rex & Jan Shaw" Subject: Kitfox-List: Grove undercarriage > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" > > I'm really debating this Grove gear thing...I like the looks of the IV > with the bungee gear...looks nostalgic. I'm gathering info right now, > so thanks for that, Jimmie. Yeah, I hear you on the "so many things I > want to buy" thing...without a wife as a check on my checkbook, I can > get real stupid about buying things. : ) > > I'm with Jimmie, I think the grove gear is the way to go having it on my > plane but not experienced the bungee gear admittedly. However talking to > others with the bungee gear they envy my Grove gear and I have never seen > sign of a ground loop yet and feel it's due to tha Grove gear. > Rex. > rexjan@bigpond.com > > ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 05:22:57 PM PST US From: paul wilson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: model IV wing tanks --> Kitfox-List message posted by: paul wilson Just curious. What is the reason for the place you used? Thanks. Paul ========== At 07:22 AM 1/9/05 -0500, you wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com > >In a message dated 1/8/05 5:39:22 PM Pacific Standard Time, >pwilson@climber.org writes: > ><< You can choose where expanded fuel drips. On top of the wing the way > Skystar does it. out at the wing tip like Don does it. and under the wing > like mine. >> > >Paul, > One little correction. Mine exits out the bottom half way to the wing tip >not all the way to the wing tip > >Do Not Archive > >Don Smythe >N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 > > ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 05:41:21 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 8" Aluminium rims From: Lynn Matteson --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson Rex- My wheels have three mounting holes. Interestingly enough, the hubs have six holes. Lynn On Sunday, January 9, 2005, at 07:03 PM, Rex & Jan Shaw wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" > > > I now see > some pictures of similar rims on the Douglas site. They have 4 wheel > studs. > I have more and I'm almost certain it's 6. How many do you have. > Rex. > rexjan@bigpond.com > > ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 06:02:13 PM PST US From: "Jimmie Blackwell" Subject: Kitfox-List: Radio Noise --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" Flying today I noticed that my radio receiver was noisy above 4000 rpm. Below 4000 rpm the receiver is very clear. My radio is a KX125. Would appreciate any thoughts on were to look for this problem. Also, I am about to try mounting a vertical card compass in my dash. Has anyone been successful with a vertical card compass mounted in the dash? Jimmie Model IV Speedster 912 UL ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 06:07:15 PM PST US From: "Cudnohufsky's" <7suds@chartermi.net> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Grove undercarriage --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cudnohufsky's" <7suds@chartermi.net> List, I ran the bungee gear on my IV for four years and never had an incident with ground loop or ground handling, I did however envy the guys with the Grove for the simple reason they did not have to change their bungee's every year, I however did not go to the grove because of the added weight and expense. Lloyd ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rex & Jan Shaw" Subject: Kitfox-List: Grove undercarriage > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" > > I'm really debating this Grove gear thing...I like the looks of the IV > with the bungee gear...looks nostalgic. I'm gathering info right now, > so thanks for that, Jimmie. Yeah, I hear you on the "so many things I > want to buy" thing...without a wife as a check on my checkbook, I can > get real stupid about buying things. : ) > > I'm with Jimmie, I think the grove gear is the way to go having it on my > plane but not experienced the bungee gear admittedly. However talking to > others with the bungee gear they envy my Grove gear and I have never seen > sign of a ground loop yet and feel it's due to tha Grove gear. > Rex. > rexjan@bigpond.com > > > ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 06:16:15 PM PST US From: "Jeffrey Puls" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: long XC --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Puls" Deke, I am based in Columbus, Ohio at Bolton Field KTZR. They have a resturant on the field and I can run you any whrere you need to go. My number is 614-871-3155. If you have any problems in Ohio call me. Jeff puls Classic IV. > [Original Message] > From: Fox5flyer > To: Kitfox List > Date: 1/9/2005 2:12:12 PM > Subject: Kitfox-List: long XC > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > > Next Wednesday I'll be flying commercial from here in Michigan to Florida. > The purpose is to pick up a Kitfox and fly it home shortly after as the > weather permits. I don't really know what my route will be, but I've got > all the charts, directories, and current GPS196. The plan is to fly point > to point about 2.5 hours per leg with refueling at each stop, close old > flight plan and open a new one each time. The reason for point to point is > to keep my route and stops flexible. It's nearly 1200 miles and I figure > about 11-12 hours flying time so I plan to take at least two days to make > the trip, however with weather it can easily take longer. > My route will be generally direct from Tampa area, northward to somewhere > near Knoxville, and onward up to NE Michigan. If flying conditions allow > I'm hoping to get 8 hours in the first day, but it's flexible. > Anybody along that route that can recommend some fuel/food stops? Any > airports that have accomodations within walking or courtesy car distance? I > haven't made a long cross country in a long time so any help or advice would > be appreciated. > Thanks, > Deke Morisse > NE Michigan > > ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 06:19:19 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 8" Aluminium rims From: Lynn Matteson --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson Shorty- I guess I didn't describe very well what I was trying to say, when I said "operate on the inner portion of the brake disc." What I meant to say was that the calipers operate on the inner (RADIALLY inner) portion of the disc...that is, the smaller diameter portion of the whole disc, with the outer (radially outer) portion being there to allow mounting to the wheel. Yes, I probably will bore the axle/spindle out too. In looking at the axle from the threaded end, there is already a hole there...it is probably 3/16" in dia., and about 1" deep, and apparently a bit off-center. I'll have to chuck this up in my lathe and use a boring bit to straighten out the concentricity of this hole before I can use any drill. After the initial hole is straight/concentric, then I will be able to use drills to go through the axle and lose some weight. Lynn >> aluminum, do have the brake lugs welded onto the inside of the rims, >> and that the calipers (Matco) operate on the inner portion of the >> brake >> disc. On Sunday, January 9, 2005, at 08:07 PM, ~~Shorty~~ wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "~~Shorty~~" > > The douglas Site does not seem to show the 6 lug version as used on the > Kitfox. > However they are alum and look like they started as about 1/4" and it > is a > spun wheel . The wheel Bolts to the Turned Billet hub with 6 AN bolts. > > If i go out to hangar tonight I wil take some pics for you. > > Lynn - The Matco do not operate on one side if the rotor, they > work on > both sides. As the fluid pressure increases, the piston will come out > and > excert a pressure on the one side but as that happens the caliper > slides and > excerts equal or near equal pressure to the other side of the rotor. > If your > calipers do not slide your brakes will work at less efficiency and > will wear > one pad only. > > Glad to hear you lightened your rotors, now are you gonna turn the > inside > of the spindle as well? you will save I think about 1 or 1 1/2 > pounds more > from lightening them. > > Hope this helps you, > > > Shorty ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 06:37:21 PM PST US From: "~~Shorty~~" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 8" Aluminium rims --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "~~Shorty~~" Lynn, You your are correct he outter part of the rotor is to facilitae the 3 mounting screws and the safety wire holes. Your blood must be boiling try to get this plane done by spring eh. !! Shorty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 8" Aluminium rims > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson > > Shorty- > > I guess I didn't describe very well what I was trying to say, when I > said "operate on the inner portion of the brake disc." What I meant to > say was that the calipers operate on the inner (RADIALLY inner) portion > of the disc...that is, the smaller diameter portion of the whole disc, > with the outer (radially outer) portion being there to allow mounting > to the wheel. > Yes, I probably will bore the axle/spindle out too. In looking at the > axle from the threaded end, there is already a hole there...it is > probably 3/16" in dia., and about 1" deep, and apparently a bit > off-center. I'll have to chuck this up in my lathe and use a boring bit > to straighten out the concentricity of this hole before I can use any > drill. After the initial hole is straight/concentric, then I will be > able to use drills to go through the axle and lose some weight. > > Lynn > > > >> aluminum, do have the brake lugs welded onto the inside of the rims, > >> and that the calipers (Matco) operate on the inner portion of the > >> brake > >> disc. > > On Sunday, January 9, 2005, at 08:07 PM, ~~Shorty~~ wrote: > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "~~Shorty~~" > > > > The douglas Site does not seem to show the 6 lug version as used on the > > Kitfox. > > However they are alum and look like they started as about 1/4" and it > > is a > > spun wheel . The wheel Bolts to the Turned Billet hub with 6 AN bolts. > > > > If i go out to hangar tonight I wil take some pics for you. > > > > Lynn - The Matco do not operate on one side if the rotor, they > > work on > > both sides. As the fluid pressure increases, the piston will come out > > and > > excert a pressure on the one side but as that happens the caliper > > slides and > > excerts equal or near equal pressure to the other side of the rotor. > > If your > > calipers do not slide your brakes will work at less efficiency and > > will wear > > one pad only. > > > > Glad to hear you lightened your rotors, now are you gonna turn the > > inside > > of the spindle as well? you will save I think about 1 or 1 1/2 > > pounds more > > from lightening them. > > > > Hope this helps you, > > > > > > Shorty > > ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 07:04:11 PM PST US From: "kirk hull" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Sport Planes --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirk hull" If the aircraft is deregistered it is no longer an aircraft. Then you are starting with parts weather they be new or salvige to build your new aircraft. If you can prove that you built over 51% of the aircraft ( the origional must have beel in prety bad shape and probably listed as destroyed in the crash report) then yes you should be able to get the repairman cert. You will have to have receipts for the parts you have purchased and of coarse your building log to prove your time. by the way, was the origional a/c crashed or dammaged in another way. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net This confuses me, reregister the aircraft. Are you saying you can start all over with the certification of the aircraft, can I even get a repairmans cert. of such. If so tell me how? I want to do this with my 4. Now remember, I'm rebuilding the fox and I can prove over 51% build. steve a -----Original Message----- --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirk hull" Only a couple of problems that I can . First of all you dont need an STC (supplemental type certificate) for an experimental as we have no type certificate to supplement. Second of all if you deregister your aircraft and the re register it with the new weight limit you want you should not have any problems. just a lot of work and ofcourse a new 40 hour test time. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 07:11:11 PM PST US From: "kirk hull" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: long XC --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirk hull" Kansas City is a little out of the way but if weather pushes you west 0N0 (Zero November Zero )Roosterville ( Liberty Mo.) is a good fuel stop with food close by. The owner , Paul Stuber lives on the field and will pump fuel 24/ 7 . He caries 100LL and auto gas. The runway is more then suitable for a fox with parallel paved and grass . --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" Next Wednesday I'll be flying commercial from here in Michigan to Florida. The purpose is to pick up a Kitfox and fly it home shortly after as the weather permits. I don't really know what my route will be, but I've got all the charts, directories, and current GPS196. The plan is to fly point to point about 2.5 hours per leg with refueling at each stop, close old flight plan and open a new one each time. The reason for point to point is to keep my route and stops flexible. It's nearly 1200 miles and I figure about 11-12 hours flying time so I plan to take at least two days to make the trip, however with weather it can easily take longer. My route will be generally direct from Tampa area, northward to somewhere near Knoxville, and onward up to NE Michigan. If flying conditions allow I'm hoping to get 8 hours in the first day, but it's flexible. Anybody along that route that can recommend some fuel/food stops? Any airports that have accomodations within walking or courtesy car distance? I haven't made a long cross country in a long time so any help or advice would be appreciated. Thanks, Deke Morisse NE Michigan ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 08:42:08 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: [ William Willyard ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! From: Email List Photo Shares --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: William Willyard Subject: Kitfox fuel vent check valve photos http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/Wwillyard@aol.com.01.09.2005/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures@matronics.com