---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 01/11/05: 38 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:52 AM - Model 5, Subaru and Batterry (Trey Moran) 2. 05:05 AM - Re: wing tanks and header tank vents. (Dee Young) 3. 06:08 AM - Re: Engine choices (Fox5flyer) 4. 07:19 AM - Re: Engine choices (~~Shorty~~) 5. 07:31 AM - Re: Engine choices (~~Shorty~~) 6. 08:56 AM - Re: model IV wing tanks (Lynn Matteson) 7. 09:16 AM - Re: 8" Aluminium rims (Lynn Matteson) 8. 09:33 AM - Re: 8" Aluminium rims (customtrans@qwest.net) 9. 09:46 AM - Re: 8" Aluminium rims (~~Shorty~~) 10. 09:56 AM - Re: Model 5, Subaru and Batterry (Rick) 11. 11:09 AM - FYI....Couple of Canadian Kitfoxes for sale (kitfoxjunky) 12. 11:42 AM - Re: FYI....Couple of Canadian Kitfoxes for sale (Gary Algate) 13. 12:24 PM - Re: Engine choices (Lowell Fitt) 14. 12:35 PM - Compass Mounting (John Stoner) 15. 12:46 PM - Re: Engine choices (Fox5flyer) 16. 12:47 PM - Re: Engine choices (~~Shorty~~) 17. 12:54 PM - Re: Engine choices (~~Shorty~~) 18. 01:10 PM - Re: Engine choices moreo n NSI wieght (~~Shorty~~) 19. 02:28 PM - Re: long XC (Jeffrey Puls) 20. 02:33 PM - My Bluehead 582 140lb Engine choice (Harris, Robert) 21. 02:50 PM - Re: Engine choices (Clint Bazzill) 22. 03:34 PM - Re: model IV wing tanks (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 23. 03:48 PM - Re: FYI....Couple of Canadian Kitfoxes for sale (~~Shorty~~) 24. 04:29 PM - Re: model IV wing tanks (Lynn Matteson) 25. 04:36 PM - Re: cutting exhaust pipe (Torgeir Mortensen) 26. 04:54 PM - Cafe Foundation. (Torgeir Mortensen) 27. 06:43 PM - Re: model IV wing tanks (Steve Zakreski) 28. 07:12 PM - Re: model IV wing tanks (Jerry Liles) 29. 08:01 PM - Re: Engine choices () 30. 08:18 PM - Re: Re: Engine choices (Dee Young) 31. 08:34 PM - Re: Re: Engine choices (Steve Zakreski) 32. 09:43 PM - Post Photos (Steve Zakreski) 33. 09:51 PM - Compass (Rex & Jan Shaw) 34. 10:11 PM - Fuel cap (Rex & Jan Shaw) 35. 10:11 PM - Re: Post Photos (Don Pearsall) 36. 11:02 PM - Re: Model 5, Subaru and Batterry (kurt schrader) 37. 11:16 PM - Re: model IV wing tanks (kurt schrader) 38. 11:55 PM - Re: Engine choices (kurt schrader) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:52:58 AM PST US From: "Trey Moran" Subject: Kitfox-List: Model 5, Subaru and Batterry --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Trey Moran" Question for Model 5 builders or flyers with Subaru EA81 engines, preferably with a Stratus, but will take info on NSI. I don't like the idea of putting the battery in the tail and was hoping someone has put the battery more forward and can provide cg info. It would also be helpful to have cg numbers, including weight and arm for the battery, for a plane with the forward swept wing so I could do some what if cg calculations. Trey Moran ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:05:15 AM PST US From: "Dee Young" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: wing tanks and header tank vents. Seal-Send-Time: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 06:04:14 -0700 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" Kurt The air can be sucked in but not pushed out same as fuel. Dee, One last question. Does the air go out of the header tank thru this vent valve too? In other words, does the valve let air go both ways, but fuel can not vent out? > > Dee Young > Model II > N345DY > > Do Not Archive __________________________________ http://my.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:08:49 AM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choices --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" From: "~~Shorty~~" > Suberu is the heaviest choice of the 582 and 912. > I would take a 912 over a suberu any day until the cost factor came into the > equasion. > Then if you area die hard that must have a 4 stroke and cost is a factor > Sure suberu the penalty is extra 200 lbs over a 582 and "possibly " less > maintenance Just a couple questions here. Why are you lumping the 582 in with the 912 and Subaru? Also, I question your 200lb penalty of the 582 over the Subaru. Having both of these packages and weighed both I was very surprised to read your numbers. Please give us a credible source for your above information. Also, unfortunately for some of us, the cost factor does come into the equation. > Performance I not sure I have asked several times on this list for Numbers > of performance 582 vs Suberu but not read it yet. This is typical apples and oranges Shorty. Why would you want to compare performance of a 582 vs Subaru? What would it tell anybody? Would you put a 582 into a S5? To me it's no different than comparing a 582 with an O200. No comparison because I can't imagine anybody seriously considering choosing between the two. No merit. The 582 is a great engine, but is not meant for the same mission as the 0200 or Subaru. Deke ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:14 AM PST US From: "~~Shorty~~" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choices --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "~~Shorty~~" A little defensvive there deke ? Show me a KF IV with Jaerbu under 600 lbs and it is relevant not everyone wants a jabiru or a rotax but you gotta show the differnces. 582 vs Jabiru post some IV number please .. TAKE distance CLIMB FPM Crusie etc Jabiru - what is the weight of some KF IV's with those "heavy " engines? and also some 582 weights ? Power to weight 582 gonna win hands down. Open for discussion. Shorty <_--- Like to see the defensive side to some good folks :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choices > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > > From: "~~Shorty~~" > > Suberu is the heaviest choice of the 582 and 912. > > I would take a 912 over a suberu any day until the cost factor came into > the > > equasion. > > Then if you area die hard that must have a 4 stroke and cost is a factor > > Sure suberu the penalty is extra 200 lbs over a 582 and "possibly " less > > maintenance > > Just a couple questions here. Why are you lumping the 582 in with the > 912 and Subaru? Also, I question your 200lb penalty of the 582 over the > Subaru. Having both of these packages and weighed both I was very surprised > to read your numbers. Please give us a credible source for your above > information. > Also, unfortunately for some of us, the cost factor does come into the > equation. > > > Performance I not sure I have asked several times on this list for Numbers > > of performance 582 vs Suberu but not read it yet. > > This is typical apples and oranges Shorty. Why would you want to > compare performance of a 582 vs Subaru? What would it tell anybody? Would > you put a 582 into a S5? To me it's no different than comparing a 582 with > an O200. No comparison because I can't imagine anybody seriously > considering choosing between the two. No merit. > The 582 is a great engine, but is not meant for the same mission as the 0200 > or Subaru. > Deke > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:31:00 AM PST US From: "~~Shorty~~" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choices --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "~~Shorty~~" here you go under 600 lbs with Jabieru http://www.algonet.se/~lgk-alv/teknxof.htm Excellent !! I find it hard to belive that so many are over 700 lbs oh well to each his own. shorty ----- Original Message ----- From: "~~Shorty~~" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choices > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "~~Shorty~~" > > A little defensvive there deke ? > > Show me a KF IV with Jaerbu under 600 lbs > > and it is relevant not everyone wants a jabiru or a rotax but you gotta show > the differnces. > > 582 vs Jabiru > > post some IV number please .. > > TAKE distance > CLIMB FPM > Crusie > etc > > > Jabiru - what is the weight of some KF IV's with those "heavy " engines? > and also some 582 weights ? > > Power to weight 582 gonna win hands down. > > > Open for discussion. > > > Shorty <_--- Like to see the defensive side to some good folks :) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fox5flyer" > To: > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choices > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > > > > From: "~~Shorty~~" > > > Suberu is the heaviest choice of the 582 and 912. > > > I would take a 912 over a suberu any day until the cost factor came into > > the > > > equasion. > > > Then if you area die hard that must have a 4 stroke and cost is a factor > > > Sure suberu the penalty is extra 200 lbs over a 582 and "possibly " > less > > > maintenance > > > > Just a couple questions here. Why are you lumping the 582 in with the > > 912 and Subaru? Also, I question your 200lb penalty of the 582 over the > > Subaru. Having both of these packages and weighed both I was very > surprised > > to read your numbers. Please give us a credible source for your above > > information. > > Also, unfortunately for some of us, the cost factor does come into the > > equation. > > > > > Performance I not sure I have asked several times on this list for > Numbers > > > of performance 582 vs Suberu but not read it yet. > > > > This is typical apples and oranges Shorty. Why would you want to > > compare performance of a 582 vs Subaru? What would it tell anybody? > Would > > you put a 582 into a S5? To me it's no different than comparing a 582 > with > > an O200. No comparison because I can't imagine anybody seriously > > considering choosing between the two. No merit. > > The 582 is a great engine, but is not meant for the same mission as the > 0200 > > or Subaru. > > Deke > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:56:45 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: model IV wing tanks From: Lynn Matteson --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson Maybe somebody needs to come up with a seal that would prevent fuel from getting into the flaperon....sort of like maybe a piece of flexible material that is fuel-resistant, with a slit cut into it, slid down over the protruding flap hinge arm, which would allow the arm movement, but would seal the opening (pretty much) around the arm. Think of a piece of old inner tube (I know...not fuel resistant, but you get the idea). There you have it...or we could just avoid the leak in the first place. : ) Lynn p.s. Maybe these "flap hinge slot seals" would reduce drag? Boy, I can see the line forming at the patent office now. On Monday, January 10, 2005, at 01:35 PM, AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com > > In a message dated 1/10/05 8:46:43 AM Pacific Standard Time, > lynnmatt@jps.net > writes: > > << Thanks for clearing that up, Don. I was going to vent them like you > did, after reading about fuel spillage possibly getting into the > flaperons and causing damage. If the SS venting sy >> > > Let me clear that one up. I only get a little fuel spillage during > taxi with > full tanks. And that only occurs during a ground turn. The vents are > toward > the leading edge and the fuel never gets anywhere near the > flapperons. On > the other hand, fuel leaking on top of a wing could roll off directly > into the > flapperons. Good point. > > Don Smythe > N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:16:34 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 8" Aluminium rims From: Lynn Matteson --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson Having nothing better to do while waiting for stuff to dry, harden, cure, etc., I put the spindles/axles in my lathe and began the long slow (over 3 hours) process of drilling them out to 7/16" and then boring the ends to 9/16"....I decided to get an extra long 7/16" drill (10" long) rather than go at it from both ends with a regular jobber-length drill. Surprisingly, the drill was under 10 bucks. What took so long was constantly having to back the drill out and clear chips from the flutes. In 8" of drilling, those chips get pretty packed in there. I lightened each axle by 7 oz...a h___ of a lot of work for 14 oz! Anyway, now I've got 'em lightened, but what happens if I decide to get a Grove gear? Will I be able to use these axles? And if I go Grove, will I be able to use the wheel pants? I'm sure that the pants can be adapted, but what about the axles? Lynn On Sunday, January 9, 2005, at 08:07 PM, ~~Shorty~~ wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "~~Shorty~~" > > Glad to hear you lightened your rotors, now are you gonna turn the > inside > of the spindle as well? you will save I think about 1 or 1 1/2 > pounds more > from lightening them. > > Hope this helps you, > > > Shorty >> > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:33:21 AM PST US From: customtrans@qwest.net Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 8" Aluminium rims --> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net you get new axles. I'm still pretty excited about the grove gear. Although I haven't flown with them yet. I see: no more bungies to worry about, I feel that better control on landing and roll out will be there, and it plan just looks good. Have a nice day. steve a -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 8" Aluminium rims --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson Having nothing better to do while waiting for stuff to dry, harden, cure, etc., I put the spindles/axles in my lathe and began the long slow (over 3 hours) process of drilling them out to 7/16" and then boring the ends to 9/16"....I decided to get an extra long 7/16" drill (10" long) rather than go at it from both ends with a regular jobber-length drill. Surprisingly, the drill was under 10 bucks. What took so long was constantly having to back the drill out and clear chips from the flutes. In 8" of drilling, those chips get pretty packed in there. I lightened each axle by 7 oz...a h___ of a lot of work for 14 oz! Anyway, now I've got 'em lightened, but what happens if I decide to get a Grove gear? Will I be able to use these axles? And if I go Grove, will I be able to use the wheel pants? I'm sure that the pants can be adapted, but what about the axles? Lynn On Sunday, January 9, 2005, at 08:07 PM, ~~Shorty~~ wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "~~Shorty~~" > > Glad to hear you lightened your rotors, now are you gonna turn the > inside > of the spindle as well? you will save I think about 1 or 1 1/2 > pounds more > from lightening them. > > Hope this helps you, > > > Shorty >> > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:46:32 AM PST US From: "~~Shorty~~" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 8" Aluminium rims --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "~~Shorty~~" Geez Good question Lynn, I was off by 2 ozs. well darn. It might not seem like much but it all adds up to less weight. and 2006 ? go man go !! Shorty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 8" Aluminium rims > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson > > Having nothing better to do while waiting for stuff to dry, harden, > cure, etc., I put the spindles/axles in my lathe and began the long > slow (over 3 hours) process of drilling them out to 7/16" and then > boring the ends to 9/16"....I decided to get an extra long 7/16" drill > (10" long) rather than go at it from both ends with a regular > jobber-length drill. Surprisingly, the drill was under 10 bucks. What > took so long was constantly having to back the drill out and clear > chips from the flutes. In 8" of drilling, those chips get pretty packed > in there. I lightened each axle by 7 oz...a h___ of a lot of work for > 14 oz! > Anyway, now I've got 'em lightened, but what happens if I decide to get > a Grove gear? Will I be able to use these axles? And if I go Grove, > will I be able to use the wheel pants? I'm sure that the pants can be > adapted, but what about the axles? > Lynn > On Sunday, January 9, 2005, at 08:07 PM, ~~Shorty~~ wrote: > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "~~Shorty~~" > > > > > Glad to hear you lightened your rotors, now are you gonna turn the > > inside > > of the spindle as well? you will save I think about 1 or 1 1/2 > > pounds more > > from lightening them. > > > > Hope this helps you, > > > > > > Shorty > >> > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:56:40 AM PST US From: "Rick" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Model 5, Subaru and Batterry --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" Tery, Take a look at sportflight pics of back battery. You might be able to do something a bit bigger, these have good crank amp if wired that way. I did this one in addition to the RG35 I have in the tail. You may find to get good numbers you will either need a LOT of lead in the tail or something useful like a big battery. I have the sweep wings and even then it was necessary. Don't have the numbers handy but I think this tail mount is consistent for NSI, Stratus or similar weight engine redrive combinations. Dont IMHO try to save weight on the nose by going direct drive with an auto conversion. They were not designed for the tonsorial loads imparted by the prop. Good luck. Rick Corona Ca CNO -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Trey Moran Subject: Kitfox-List: Model 5, Subaru and Batterry --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Trey Moran" Question for Model 5 builders or flyers with Subaru EA81 engines, preferably with a Stratus, but will take info on NSI. I don't like the idea of putting the battery in the tail and was hoping someone has put the battery more forward and can provide cg info. It would also be helpful to have cg numbers, including weight and arm for the battery, for a plane with the forward swept wing so I could do some what if cg calculations. Trey Moran ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:09:22 AM PST US From: kitfoxjunky Subject: Kitfox-List: FYI....Couple of Canadian Kitfoxes for sale 02:07:25 PM, Serialize complete at 01/11/2005 02:07:25 PM --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky I recently bought an exhaust system for my 912S from a guy near Toronto. He has a KF III for sale, finished thru silver. I put his pictures onto a web page as a way of saying thanks for helping me on the exhaust. He has wingtips, several Soob engines, and other bits and pieces if anyone is interested. Jim Oke is his name. Used to be on the list years ago. Nice guy to deal with. Mention my name if you buy something. He said there was a steak and beer in it for me. :-) http://www.decisionlabs.com/oke I also ran across a Kitfox II for sale, again here in Canada close to Toronto. Check it out if you are interested. It is listed under single engine aircraft. $ 26,500 Canadian. Rotax 582 bluehead engine. http://www.aircraftsales.ca/showplane.php Gary Walsh C-GOOT www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:42:55 AM PST US From: "Gary Algate" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: FYI....Couple of Canadian Kitfoxes for sale --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" The Model II with Bluehead is located at Springwater Airpark in Barrie. I know the gentleman who is selling it and have had the opportunity to have a close look at the plane. It is beautifully built and the Bluehead has very low hours. It is owned by a partnership of two but evidently it's not working out - hence the sale. Plane is finished in Yellow and looks really nice. Guys name is Carl Regards GaryA Lite2/582 -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kitfoxjunky Subject: Kitfox-List: FYI....Couple of Canadian Kitfoxes for sale I also ran across a Kitfox II for sale, again here in Canada close to Toronto. Check it out if you are interested. It is listed under single engine aircraft. $ 26,500 Canadian. Rotax 582 bluehead engine. http://www.aircraftsales.ca/showplane.php Gary Walsh C-GOOT www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:24:00 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choices --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" The only figure I have seen comparing the 912 and the NSI EA81 was determined by Murle Williams who owns a builders support company and has a number of aftermarket items for the various Kitfox models. He had both engine installations handy at the time. He weighed both systems on the same platform scale. On the same day, as I understand. The weights included the engine with all components - fuel system, cooling system, engine mount and fluids. Everything except the cowl. The weights are as follows. NSI EA81 304 lbs. Rotax 912 UL 169 lbs. This might look like 200 lbs difference at first glance, but it is not. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choices > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > > From: "~~Shorty~~" > > Suberu is the heaviest choice of the 582 and 912. > > I would take a 912 over a suberu any day until the cost factor came into > the > > equasion. > > Then if you area die hard that must have a 4 stroke and cost is a factor > > Sure suberu the penalty is extra 200 lbs over a 582 and "possibly " less > > maintenance > > Just a couple questions here. Why are you lumping the 582 in with the > 912 and Subaru? Also, I question your 200lb penalty of the 582 over the > Subaru. Having both of these packages and weighed both I was very surprised > to read your numbers. Please give us a credible source for your above > information. > Also, unfortunately for some of us, the cost factor does come into the > equation. > > > Performance I not sure I have asked several times on this list for Numbers > > of performance 582 vs Suberu but not read it yet. > > This is typical apples and oranges Shorty. Why would you want to > compare performance of a 582 vs Subaru? What would it tell anybody? Would > you put a 582 into a S5? To me it's no different than comparing a 582 with > an O200. No comparison because I can't imagine anybody seriously > considering choosing between the two. No merit. > The 582 is a great engine, but is not meant for the same mission as the 0200 > or Subaru. > Deke > > > BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > ------------------------------------------------------ > Teach CanIt if this mail (ID 77143481) is spam: > Spam: http://login.safereach.com/b.php?c=s&i=77143481&m=a15d3d0e1e90 > Not spam: http://login.safereach.com/b.php?c=n&i=77143481&m=a15d3d0e1e90 > Forget vote: http://login.safereach.com/b.php?c=f&i=77143481&m=a15d3d0e1e90 > ------------------------------------------------------ > END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:35:51 PM PST US From: "John Stoner" Subject: Kitfox-List: Compass Mounting --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Stoner" I have a Hamilton vertical card compass mounted in the panel at top center. Drilled a hole to line up with the front compensator screw. Has worked great for over ten years now. John Stoner M.III, 582 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:46:01 PM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choices --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" The exact weight for the NSI EA81 with everything including radiator, radiator hoses, cables, motor mount, tanks, etc is 232 lbs. This isn't heresay. I weighed it myself just so I would know for sure. It appears that either somebody's scale is off by a whole bunch or the numbers got mixed up. Another year and the NSI will be over 400 pounds. Deke > > The only figure I have seen comparing the 912 and the NSI EA81 was > determined by Murle Williams who owns a builders support company and has a > number of aftermarket items for the various Kitfox models. > > He had both engine installations handy at the time. He weighed both systems > on the same platform scale. On the same day, as I understand. The weights > included the engine with all components - fuel system, cooling system, > engine mount and fluids. Everything except the cowl. The weights are as > follows. > > NSI EA81 304 lbs. > Rotax 912 UL 169 lbs. > > This might look like 200 lbs difference at first glance, but it is not. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:47:59 PM PST US From: "~~Shorty~~" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choices --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "~~Shorty~~" Lowell, Good post , What does 582 weigh? Shorty << on the same platform scale. On the same day, as I understand. The weights > included the engine with all components - fuel system, cooling system, > engine mount and fluids. Everything except the cowl. The weights are as > follows. > > NSI EA81 304 lbs. > Rotax 912 UL 169 lbs.>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choices > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" > > The only figure I have seen comparing the 912 and the NSI EA81 was > determined by Murle Williams who owns a builders support company and has a > number of aftermarket items for the various Kitfox models. > > He had both engine installations handy at the time. He weighed both systems > on the same platform scale. On the same day, as I understand. The weights > included the engine with all components - fuel system, cooling system, > engine mount and fluids. Everything except the cowl. The weights are as > follows. > > NSI EA81 304 lbs. > Rotax 912 UL 169 lbs. > > This might look like 200 lbs difference at first glance, but it is not. > > Lowell > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fox5flyer" > To: > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choices > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > > > > From: "~~Shorty~~" > > > Suberu is the heaviest choice of the 582 and 912. > > > I would take a 912 over a suberu any day until the cost factor came into > > the > > > equasion. > > > Then if you area die hard that must have a 4 stroke and cost is a factor > > > Sure suberu the penalty is extra 200 lbs over a 582 and "possibly " > less > > > maintenance > > > > Just a couple questions here. Why are you lumping the 582 in with the > > 912 and Subaru? Also, I question your 200lb penalty of the 582 over the > > Subaru. Having both of these packages and weighed both I was very > surprised > > to read your numbers. Please give us a credible source for your above > > information. > > Also, unfortunately for some of us, the cost factor does come into the > > equation. > > > > > Performance I not sure I have asked several times on this list for > Numbers > > > of performance 582 vs Suberu but not read it yet. > > > > This is typical apples and oranges Shorty. Why would you want to > > compare performance of a 582 vs Subaru? What would it tell anybody? > Would > > you put a 582 into a S5? To me it's no different than comparing a 582 > with > > an O200. No comparison because I can't imagine anybody seriously > > considering choosing between the two. No merit. > > The 582 is a great engine, but is not meant for the same mission as the > 0200 > > or Subaru. > > Deke > > > > > > BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > Teach CanIt if this mail (ID 77143481) is spam: > > Spam: > http://login.safereach.com/b.php?c=s&i=77143481&m=a15d3d0e1e90 > > Not spam: > http://login.safereach.com/b.php?c=n&i=77143481&m=a15d3d0e1e90 > > Forget vote: > http://login.safereach.com/b.php?c=f&i=77143481&m=a15d3d0e1e90 > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:54:24 PM PST US From: "~~Shorty~~" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choices --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "~~Shorty~~" More on Murle, Guy a real guru it seems , nice find Lowell http://www.desertfoxsquadron.org/Murle%20&%20Donna%20Williams.htm Murle and Donna Williams N915W, Series 5-1550, Rotax 914 Turbo murle.williams@juno.com Murle is a native of Arizona. He has been involved in aviation for 25 years. He is the builder of a Light Airplane Grand Champion for Skystar and Sun and Fun with a Kitfox Model 3. He also holds the title of all out Grand Champion at Sun and Fun with his Model 5-1550 (1997). Both aircraft were awarded Champion Kit for Oshkosh (1993, 1997) He is also a recipient of the Wright Brothers award. He is currently retired and is running a builders assistance program and is the Poly Fiber representative for the Western states. He is a Tech counselor, Flight advisor and A@P. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choices > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" > > The only figure I have seen comparing the 912 and the NSI EA81 was > determined by Murle Williams who owns a builders support company and has a > number of aftermarket items for the various Kitfox models. > > He had both engine installations handy at the time. He weighed both systems > on the same platform scale. On the same day, as I understand. The weights > included the engine with all components - fuel system, cooling system, > engine mount and fluids. Everything except the cowl. The weights are as > follows. > > NSI EA81 304 lbs. > Rotax 912 UL 169 lbs. > > This might look like 200 lbs difference at first glance, but it is not. > > Lowell > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fox5flyer" > To: > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choices > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > > > > From: "~~Shorty~~" > > > Suberu is the heaviest choice of the 582 and 912. > > > I would take a 912 over a suberu any day until the cost factor came into > > the > > > equasion. > > > Then if you area die hard that must have a 4 stroke and cost is a factor > > > Sure suberu the penalty is extra 200 lbs over a 582 and "possibly " > less > > > maintenance > > > > Just a couple questions here. Why are you lumping the 582 in with the > > 912 and Subaru? Also, I question your 200lb penalty of the 582 over the > > Subaru. Having both of these packages and weighed both I was very > surprised > > to read your numbers. Please give us a credible source for your above > > information. > > Also, unfortunately for some of us, the cost factor does come into the > > equation. > > > > > Performance I not sure I have asked several times on this list for > Numbers > > > of performance 582 vs Suberu but not read it yet. > > > > This is typical apples and oranges Shorty. Why would you want to > > compare performance of a 582 vs Subaru? What would it tell anybody? > Would > > you put a 582 into a S5? To me it's no different than comparing a 582 > with > > an O200. No comparison because I can't imagine anybody seriously > > considering choosing between the two. No merit. > > The 582 is a great engine, but is not meant for the same mission as the > 0200 > > or Subaru. > > Deke > > > > > > BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > Teach CanIt if this mail (ID 77143481) is spam: > > Spam: > http://login.safereach.com/b.php?c=s&i=77143481&m=a15d3d0e1e90 > > Not spam: > http://login.safereach.com/b.php?c=n&i=77143481&m=a15d3d0e1e90 > > Forget vote: > http://login.safereach.com/b.php?c=f&i=77143481&m=a15d3d0e1e90 > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:10:52 PM PST US From: "~~Shorty~~" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choices moreo n NSI wieght --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "~~Shorty~~" Ok you must have the lite weight version there Deke, All i know is how many Kitfoxes with the NSI weigh under 600 lbs? I have showed you m now you show me . :-) Shorty :) http://www.loginet.nl/europa/euroengi.htm NSI Subaru The Subaru engines are real beauties, well engineered and powerful. They are a bit heavy but MTOW compensation for the Europa/Subaru combination is on its way. We saw one in take-off at Cranfield and it really points its nose into the sky, the rate of climb must be incredible. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/chris.sellen/May%2000%20Project%20news.htm Again for a weight of 123lb incl. exhaust, generator, starter etc. you get 80hp and low fuel consumption. Unfortunately it's still very expensive in Pietenpol terms at 6991. PFA Engineering was said to be unimpressed with the efficiency of its prop at 3300-rpm given our modest cruise speeds. A reduction-geared version is apparently under development. http://www.nsiaero.com/nsiaero2/3.0/3.1/3.1.1/3.1.1.17/3.1.1.17.htm EA81-108-TBI EA81-150-TTBI Engine Module Weight (Dry)..................214 lbs..........................222 lbs....... Typical Installed Engine Weight................242 lbs..........................263 lbs....... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choices > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > > The exact weight for the NSI EA81 with everything including radiator, > radiator hoses, cables, motor mount, tanks, etc is 232 lbs. This isn't > heresay. I weighed it myself just so I would know for sure. It appears > that either somebody's scale is off by a whole bunch or the numbers got > mixed up. Another year and the NSI will be over 400 pounds. > Deke > > > > > The only figure I have seen comparing the 912 and the NSI EA81 was > > determined by Murle Williams who owns a builders support company and has a > > number of aftermarket items for the various Kitfox models. > > > > He had both engine installations handy at the time. He weighed both > systems > > on the same platform scale. On the same day, as I understand. The > weights > > included the engine with all components - fuel system, cooling system, > > engine mount and fluids. Everything except the cowl. The weights are as > > follows. > > > > NSI EA81 304 lbs. > > Rotax 912 UL 169 lbs. > > > > This might look like 200 lbs difference at first glance, but it is not. > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:28:19 PM PST US From: "Jeffrey Puls" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: long XC --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Puls" Yes. > [Original Message] > From: Fox5flyer > To: > Date: 1/10/2005 4:48:00 PM > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: long XC > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > > You mean a trailer for a Kitfox? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeffrey Puls" > To: > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: long XC > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Puls" > > > > I also have a trailer. Jeff > > > > > > > [Original Message] > > > From: Fox5flyer > > > To: > > > Date: 1/10/2005 9:12:42 AM > > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: long XC > > > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > > > > > > > Appreciate the offer Jeff and it may work out that way. I've got your > > > number written down and will have it with me. > > > Thanks much. > > > Deke > > > > > > From: "Jeffrey Puls" > > > > Deke, > > > > I am based in Columbus, Ohio at Bolton Field KTZR. They have a > resturant > > > on > > > > the field and I can run you any whrere you need to go. My number is > > > > 614-871-3155. If you have any problems in Ohio call me. Jeff puls > > Classic > > > > IV. > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Original Message] > > > > > From: Fox5flyer > > > > > To: Kitfox List > > > > > Date: 1/9/2005 2:12:12 PM > > > > > Subject: Kitfox-List: long XC > > > > > > > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > > > > > > > > > > > > > Next Wednesday I'll be flying commercial from here in Michigan to > > > Florida. > > > > > The purpose is to pick up a Kitfox and fly it home shortly after as > > the > > > > > weather permits. I don't really know what my route will be, but > I've > > > got > > > > > all the charts, directories, and current GPS196. The plan is to fly > > > point > > > > > to point about 2.5 hours per leg with refueling at each stop, close > > old > > > > > flight plan and open a new one each time. The reason for point to > > point > > > > is > > > > > to keep my route and stops flexible. It's nearly 1200 miles and I > > > figure > > > > > about 11-12 hours flying time so I plan to take at least two days to > > > make > > > > > the trip, however with weather it can easily take longer. > > > > > My route will be generally direct from Tampa area, northward to > > > somewhere > > > > > near Knoxville, and onward up to NE Michigan. If flying conditions > > > allow > > > > > I'm hoping to get 8 hours in the first day, but it's flexible. > > > > > Anybody along that route that can recommend some fuel/food stops? > Any > > > > > airports that have accomodations within walking or courtesy car > > > distance? > > > > I > > > > > haven't made a long cross country in a long time so any help or > advice > > > > would > > > > > be appreciated. > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Deke Morisse > > > > > NE Michigan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:33:51 PM PST US From: "Harris, Robert" Subject: Kitfox-List: My Bluehead 582 140lb Engine choice --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" Hi Shorty, My Bluehead 582 installed weight is about 140.8 Lbs or 73.7Kg. How much does your weigh? I love my 582 on my Model II but I prefer a bigger engine on my 900lb model V. Robert -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ~~Shorty~~ Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choices --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "~~Shorty~~" Lowell, Good post , What does 582 weigh? Shorty << on the same platform scale. On the same day, as I understand. The weights > included the engine with all components - fuel system, cooling system, > engine mount and fluids. Everything except the cowl. The weights are as > follows. > > NSI EA81 304 lbs. > Rotax 912 UL 169 lbs.>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choices > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" > > The only figure I have seen comparing the 912 and the NSI EA81 was > determined by Murle Williams who owns a builders support company and has a > number of aftermarket items for the various Kitfox models. > > He had both engine installations handy at the time. He weighed both systems > on the same platform scale. On the same day, as I understand. The weights > included the engine with all components - fuel system, cooling system, > engine mount and fluids. Everything except the cowl. The weights are as > follows. > > NSI EA81 304 lbs. > Rotax 912 UL 169 lbs. > > This might look like 200 lbs difference at first glance, but it is not. > > Lowell > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fox5flyer" > To: > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choices > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > > > > From: "~~Shorty~~" > > > Suberu is the heaviest choice of the 582 and 912. > > > I would take a 912 over a suberu any day until the cost factor came into > > the > > > equasion. > > > Then if you area die hard that must have a 4 stroke and cost is a factor > > > Sure suberu the penalty is extra 200 lbs over a 582 and "possibly " > less > > > maintenance > > > > Just a couple questions here. Why are you lumping the 582 in with the > > 912 and Subaru? Also, I question your 200lb penalty of the 582 over the > > Subaru. Having both of these packages and weighed both I was very > surprised > > to read your numbers. Please give us a credible source for your above > > information. > > Also, unfortunately for some of us, the cost factor does come into the > > equation. > > > > > Performance I not sure I have asked several times on this list for > Numbers > > > of performance 582 vs Suberu but not read it yet. > > > > This is typical apples and oranges Shorty. Why would you want to > > compare performance of a 582 vs Subaru? What would it tell anybody? > Would > > you put a 582 into a S5? To me it's no different than comparing a 582 > with > > an O200. No comparison because I can't imagine anybody seriously > > considering choosing between the two. No merit. > > The 582 is a great engine, but is not meant for the same mission as the > 0200 > > or Subaru. > > Deke > > > > > > BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > Teach CanIt if this mail (ID 77143481) is spam: > > Spam: > http://login.safereach.com/b.php?c=s&i=77143481&m=a15d3d0e1e90 > > Not spam: > http://login.safereach.com/b.php?c=n&i=77143481&m=a15d3d0e1e90 > > Forget vote: > http://login.safereach.com/b.php?c=f&i=77143481&m=a15d3d0e1e90 > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:50:21 PM PST US From: "Clint Bazzill" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choices --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clint Bazzill" Does the weight of the EA81 include the Batteries. They are heavy compared to a 912ULS 14AH at 14 lbs which I have used for 700 hours. Clint ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 03:34:36 PM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: model IV wing tanks --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com In a message dated 1/11/05 8:57:22 AM Pacific Standard Time, lynnmatt@jps.net writes: << Maybe somebody needs to come up with a seal that would prevent fuel from getting into the flaperon....sort of like maybe a piece of >> First off, I don't recall a single case (9+ years now) where gasoline has entered the flapperons and caused any damage. Just maybe, there is no problem in this area?? Don Smythe N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 03:48:01 PM PST US From: "~~Shorty~~" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: FYI....Couple of Canadian Kitfoxes for sale --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "~~Shorty~~" Gary, thanks for that ,, nice looking KF'es Shorty ----- Original Message ----- From: "kitfoxjunky" Subject: Kitfox-List: FYI....Couple of Canadian Kitfoxes for sale > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky > > I recently bought an exhaust system for my 912S from a guy near Toronto. > He has a KF III for sale, finished thru silver. I put his pictures onto a > web page as a way of saying thanks for helping me on the exhaust. He has > wingtips, several Soob engines, and other bits and pieces if anyone is > interested. Jim Oke is his name. Used to be on the list years ago. Nice > guy to deal with. Mention my name if you buy something. He said there was > a steak and beer in it for me. :-) > > http://www.decisionlabs.com/oke > > I also ran across a Kitfox II for sale, again here in Canada close to > Toronto. Check it out if you are interested. It is listed under single > engine aircraft. $ 26,500 Canadian. Rotax 582 bluehead engine. > > http://www.aircraftsales.ca/showplane.php > > Gary Walsh > C-GOOT > www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 04:29:28 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: model IV wing tanks From: Lynn Matteson --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson I just got to thinking about this because I read on this forum just a few days ago about someone's flaperons having their foam eroded away by the ingestion of fuel....didn't I? And of course, if it WAS just one incident, I'd say yes, we have no problem in this area. Lynn do not archive On Tuesday, January 11, 2005, at 06:33 PM, AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com > > In a message dated 1/11/05 8:57:22 AM Pacific Standard Time, > lynnmatt@jps.net > writes: > > << > Maybe somebody needs to come up with a seal that would prevent fuel > from getting into the flaperon....sort of like maybe a piece of >> > > First off, I don't recall a single case (9+ years now) where gasoline > has > entered the flapperons and caused any damage. Just maybe, there is no > problem in > this area?? > > Don Smythe > N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 04:36:39 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: cutting exhaust pipe From: Torgeir Mortensen --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen Hi Kurt and all, -And a happy new year.. Been reading this one with interest, esp. those comments. Well, as usually, Kurt is ABSOLUTELY right about the thrust from the exhaust system. Let's look at the very known engine, a Lycoming IO 360 (the one most people know ??), -would you believe that this engine can add up to approx. "20 LBS" in additional thrust from the exhaust?? This thrust gain is "significant" at cruise altitude. OK., I'm not going to do any calculation here, but will refer to Cafe Foundation, this is a "scientific group" making "aircraft performance reports". This group Sponsored and Funded by the EAA (Experimental Aircraft Association) and the FAA (Federal Aviation Administration). Here is two documents related to this topic. The first one is The EPG (exhaust pressure graph) and Aircraft Exhaust Systems. If you go to this site, the document start downloading (pdf format) if you click on the link: http://www.cafefoundation.org/aprs/epg.pdf This second report has actual data from an IO-360, the document start downloading (pdf format) if you click on the link: http://www.cafefoundation.org/aprs/EPG%20PART%20IV.pdf Regards, Torgeir. On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 11:45:17 -0800 (PST), kurt schrader wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader > > > Hi Don, > > I cut mine at the 45 degree angle too. The upper side > is shorter on mine. I think it allows the exhaust > pulse to release and expand a little more gradually > reducing noise slightly over a straight cut. I am not > sure if there really is another benefit from tip > cutting, in spite of some claims. You have to > consider what it does to the airflow around the > fuselage and not just the exhaust flow. > > The bigger effect is to have the exhaust point down at > 45 degrees. I read where as much as 10% of your > thrust can come from the exhaust "jet". Pointed > straight aft, you get 100% of it as thrust. Pointed > straight down, you get 100% of it as lift. > > Whatever the jet benefit, due to the benefits of > geometry, you get not 100%, but 141.4% of the > thrust/lift benefit at that 45 degree angle. You get > ~71% thrust and ~71% lift when at 45 degrees. > > Say mine was quite a small jet thrust in cruise - 10 > lbs due to my turbo reducing exhaust energy. At the > 45, I still get 7.1 lbs of thrust and 7.1 lbs of added > lift. Four pounds gained just by an angle? Easier > than reducing 4 lbs of weight... > > Though mine is not quite 45 degrees, whatever the > gain, I'll take it. > > Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo > > --- AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote: > >> I seem to remember once about cutting the tail end >> of the exhaust pipe at a 45 degree angle on the >> backside of the airflow. This was either to reduce >> drag or help promote good exhaust flow as it exits >> (or both). Does anyone have any thoughts on this? >> I had to weld a short extension on my exhaust pipe >> and right now it is cut square. >> >> Don Smythe >> N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 > > > __________________________________ > Dress up your holiday email, Hollywood style. Learn more. > http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com > > -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 04:54:32 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Cafe Foundation. From: Torgeir Mortensen --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen Hi Folks, Thought I'll add some more info about the Cafe Foundation. They test experimental aircrafts and various systems / Principe for aircrafts. Sorry, the Kitfox models is not tested (yet ? ). They have a very interesting (in fact three) reports about vortex generators, the thing few tell about - a more complete cleanup of an aircraft -yes "local airflow" and the other methods. There is also reports about traditional (magneto) ignition system vs. modern electronic ignition system. Another one is about fuel handling and safety issues, very valuable... Here is yet another one, towing a 152 (Aerobat), in order to find the real glide number for this aircraft. And the last one about wax "effect" on the aircraft vs. drag. Youll find them here: http://www.cafefoundation.org/ Enjoy, Torgeir. -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 06:43:15 PM PST US From: Steve Zakreski Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: model IV wing tanks --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski Lynn Yep, I recall the thread a few months ago where the foam was eaten away. But it's the only case I can recall of this problem being brought up on this list. But then...you're the builder. That's the fun. It would indeed be nice to seal the flapperon gap if for no other reason than to stop the rain from going in there and freezing. I made many mods which were important to me and nobody else. 1) I modified the door latch so it could be opened by someone trying to rescue me. 2) Added a water bottle holder on the door so the bottle wouldn't roll around on the floor and jam the pedals. My mouth was constantly dry during the first year of nervous flying. 3) Removed the gascolator because I considered it to increase risk rather than decrease. 4) LOTS of fail-safe wiring considerations. 5) Fuel flow monitoring device (essential IMHO if you will be doing long distance cruising) I used to (and still do) read every accident report I could lay my hands on and see if there was anything I could build into my Kitfox to avoid the same thing happening to me. SteveZ Calgary -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: model IV wing tanks --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson I just got to thinking about this because I read on this forum just a few days ago about someone's flaperons having their foam eroded away by the ingestion of fuel....didn't I? And of course, if it WAS just one incident, I'd say yes, we have no problem in this area. Lynn do not archive On Tuesday, January 11, 2005, at 06:33 PM, AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com > > In a message dated 1/11/05 8:57:22 AM Pacific Standard Time, > lynnmatt@jps.net > writes: > > << > Maybe somebody needs to come up with a seal that would prevent fuel > from getting into the flaperon....sort of like maybe a piece of >> > > First off, I don't recall a single case (9+ years now) where gasoline > has > entered the flapperons and caused any damage. Just maybe, there is no > problem in > this area?? > > Don Smythe > N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 07:12:10 PM PST US From: Jerry Liles Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: model IV wing tanks --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles I've seen fuel get in the flapperon once. A friend had a Kitfox Model IV (not JR this time) that was overfilled with fuel flowing off the back of the wing onto the flapperons with fuel entering the slot. It took a couple of days before it all evaporated. It did no harm we could see but fuel vapors in the closed space has to be a significant fire hazard. We did not take them apart to inspect the foam ribs. This particular Fox did not have vent holes drilled in the flapperons when constructed and had the flapperons fill with water when it was washed the first time. Finally had to take them off to drain and then drill drain holes. The original Dean Wilson design with two fingers from the flapperon bearing to the rib had a rather large well that exposed the bearing. It wasn't pretty but the well could be sealed with epoxy and the bearing could easily be inspected, cleaned and lubed as necessary and the interior of the flapperon stayed dry. Take your choice; Pretty or functional. Jerry Liles AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com > >In a message dated 1/11/05 8:57:22 AM Pacific Standard Time, lynnmatt@jps.net >writes: > ><< > Maybe somebody needs to come up with a seal that would prevent fuel > from getting into the flaperon....sort of like maybe a piece of >> > >First off, I don't recall a single case (9+ years now) where gasoline has >entered the flapperons and caused any damage. Just maybe, there is no problem in >this area?? > >Don Smythe >N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 > > > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 08:01:48 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Engine choices From: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Anyone perfectly happy with what they have and simply flying for the fun of it??? ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 08:18:34 PM PST US From: "Dee Young" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Engine choices Seal-Send-Time: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 21:17:11 -0700 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" Yup ----- Original Message ----- From: Lonnie_D._Tillinghast@oxy.com To: Kitfox-List@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 9:00 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Engine choices --> Kitfox-List message posted by: > Anyone perfectly happy with what they have and simply flying for the fun of it??? ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 08:34:20 PM PST US From: Steve Zakreski Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Engine choices --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski Refer to the picture of me over the mountains I posted two weeks ago. ;-) SteveZ Calgary -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lonnie_D._Tillinghast@oxy.com Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Engine choices --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Anyone perfectly happy with what they have and simply flying for the fun of it??? ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 09:43:29 PM PST US From: Steve Zakreski Subject: Kitfox-List: Post Photos --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski Speaking of photos. Don/Deke...how about setting up a folder in the Kitfox Sportflight Photo site for pictures of our list members. I would love to see what the bumpkins I've been listing to for 8 years really look like. Incidentally, I find posting photos on this site to be hit and miss. I get a lot of upload failures. Are there any tricks I should know about? SteveZ -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve Zakreski Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Engine choices --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski Refer to the picture of me over the mountains I posted two weeks ago. ;-) SteveZ Calgary -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lonnie_D._Tillinghast@oxy.com Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Engine choices --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Anyone perfectly happy with what they have and simply flying for the fun of it??? ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 09:51:31 PM PST US From: "Rex & Jan Shaw" Subject: Kitfox-List: Compass --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" > I have a vertical card compass in my dash that has been working just great since 2001. The "trick" was to use the extra strength balancing balls (special order from the compass manufacturer). I too want a vertical card compass one day. I read a good write up somewhere on the net and it agreed exactly with what you are saying. So I feel anyone that has been put off by reports of vertical card compasses not working need not be. Sure as this article said the firm would not instal them as they just didn't usually work. However they nutted it out after a while and came to the conclusion about those balls you mention and they now say they are great. Rex. rexjan@bigpond.com ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 10:11:29 PM PST US From: "Rex & Jan Shaw" Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuel cap --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" I don't know about a better cap, but a couple of years back a list member bought a bunch or Mercedes Benz gas caps that he made available to fellow listers for a small fee. They work great. Guys the Mercedes Fuel cap gasket is P/N 140-471-00-79 Also under E2060-124896 It is listed as a hard seal 58x37.5x2.5. Costs about $2 I could not seem to buy just the gasket in Australia. Would have had to get the whole cap. However look on the net. Just put the part No in your chosen search engine and it will come up in a few places in USA. I finished up using 3mm fuel grade insertion rubber and made my own. I was getting problems because I fill to the top but now I don't leak a drop. Rex. rexjan@bigpond.com ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 10:11:57 PM PST US From: "Don Pearsall" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Post Photos --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" Steve, I have found that when the photo posting fails, it is most likely due to a name that the web server does not like, or a huge sized photo. Try to avoid putting non-letter/number characters in the photo name. If there are spaces, @, &, and other odd characters, the web code cannot locate the photo. Don -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Zakreski Subject: Kitfox-List: Post Photos --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski Speaking of photos. Don/Deke...how about setting up a folder in the Kitfox Sportflight Photo site for pictures of our list members. I would love to see what the bumpkins I've been listing to for 8 years really look like. Incidentally, I find posting photos on this site to be hit and miss. I get a lot of upload failures. Are there any tricks I should know about? SteveZ -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve Zakreski Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Engine choices --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski Refer to the picture of me over the mountains I posted two weeks ago. ;-) SteveZ Calgary -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lonnie_D._Tillinghast@oxy.com Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Engine choices --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Anyone perfectly happy with what they have and simply flying for the fun of it??? ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 11:02:16 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Model 5, Subaru and Batterry --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Hi Trey, The problem comes with leverage. You can put a 20 lb battery in the tail or twice the weight half the distance back. The further back you put the balance weight, the lighter your plane will be. I put my main battery in the tail and my ELT behind that. My second (4 lb) battery is on the cockpit side of the firewall. I used its placement for my fine CG adjusting at the very end. I have no dead weights to deal with this way. Some worry about spins with weights that far out. Again, I think half the weight at twice the distance should spin the same. No matter how you do it, you have to balance the plane. Peter G is the only one I know with an S-5 and the battery more forward. You can ask him about it. Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo --- Trey Moran wrote: > Question for Model 5 builders or flyers with Subaru > EA81 engines, preferably with a Stratus, but will > take info on NSI. I don't like the idea of putting > the battery in the tail and was hoping someone has > put the battery more forward and can provide cg > info. It would also be helpful to have cg numbers, > including weight and arm for the battery, for a > plane with the forward swept wing so I could do some > what if cg calculations. > > Trey Moran __________________________________ http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 11:16:15 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: model IV wing tanks --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader What if we skinned the cat the other way? Attach a thin clear plastic cover to the flapperon bearing horn so it can rotate, and let it slide on the flapperon over the slot. Just thinking out loud... Kurt S. --- Lynn Matteson wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson > > > I just got to thinking about this because I read on > this forum just a > few days ago about someone's flaperons having their > foam eroded away by > the ingestion of fuel....didn't I? And of course, if > it WAS just one > incident, I'd say yes, we have no problem in this > area. > > Lynn > do not archive __________________________________ http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 11:55:12 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choices --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Soobs aren't that bad. They are a viable engine choice, if you have the mission to match. I can't see 300 lbs as right for the weight. Like Deke, I also weighed almost everything I put on my plane, a Series 5. In this case, I installed the NSI turbo Soob and came up with a weight of 234 lbs installed. The turbo is usually a little heavier than that, but I found a few pounds to shave, and it came out nearer the non-turbo weight. Two of us installed the engine by hand including having one hand free to install the bolts. Neither of us are weight lifters. I doubt very much that we could have installed a 300 lb engine that way. As for batteries, I installed much more battery than it required. My origional battery was a "used up", turned in battery core that I used for all ground testing. It cost me $3, but started the engine every time and did all my avionics testing. The smallest battery I would want to use though is an 18 lb battery, since the engine has no mags. The good news is that the turbo engine is low compression and turns over easily. Maybe easier then the high compression Rotax? For performance, I claim an 800 lb useful load on wheels that I can climb at 750'/min and cruise at 98 mph. I hope for more performance as I add the fairings yet to be tested. And I can load up the baggage compartment to 135 lbs without going out of CG. 150 lbs if I am careful. Of course it will climb much better at light weights. Overall, I can cruise quietly at 3200 rpm doing the missions I want to and not worry about high repair/rebuild costs. If I am on floats, I can use boat dock gas. And most of all, I've got 140 hp at 12,000', so short field T/O's with a load are doable out of mountain strips or lakes. That was my intended mission. Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo --- Fox5flyer wrote: > The exact weight for the NSI EA81 with everything > including radiator, radiator hoses, cables, motor > mount, tanks, etc is 232 lbs. This isn't > heresay. I weighed it myself just so I would know > for sure. It appears that either somebody's scale > is off by a whole bunch or the numbers got > mixed up. Another year and the NSI will be over 400 > pounds. > Deke