---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 01/15/05: 27 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:52 AM - Re: KF flight simulator (kurt schrader) 2. 02:07 AM - Re: REFUELING FIRE! (kurt schrader) 3. 04:11 AM - Jabiru 2200 FF Kit (Jose M. Toro) 4. 05:09 AM - Re: REFUELING FIRE! (KITFOXZ@aol.com) 5. 05:40 AM - Re: Things to do to your Kitfox to live longer- Part 2 (KITFOXZ@aol.com) 6. 06:58 AM - Re: REFUELING FIRE! (Floran Higgins) 7. 08:21 AM - Re: KF flight simulator (Michel Verheughe) 8. 08:28 AM - Re: Things to do to your Kitfox to live longer- Part 2 (Cudnohufsky's) 9. 08:33 AM - Re: Jabiru 2200 FF Kit (Michel Verheughe) 10. 09:25 AM - Re: model IV wing tanks (DeWayne Clifford) 11. 10:13 AM - Camera (Jim Gilliatt) 12. 10:27 AM - Re: Things to do to your Kitfox to live longer- Part 2 (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 13. 10:46 AM - Lite Squared Missing (Roger McConnell) 14. 11:53 AM - Re: Things to do to your Kitfox to live longer- Part 2 (customtrans@qwest.net) 15. 01:11 PM - NSI Prop and Company Question? (Fred Weaver) 16. 01:23 PM - Re: model IV wing tanks (kurt schrader) 17. 01:25 PM - Fw: Google Alert - kitfox (David Dawe) 18. 02:11 PM - Re: NSI Prop and Company Question? (Don Pearsall) 19. 02:40 PM - Re: NSI Prop and Company Question? (Peter Graichen) 20. 03:47 PM - Re: model IV wing tanks (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 21. 04:54 PM - Fuel in the flapperon (Dee Young) 22. 05:12 PM - Re: Things to do to your Kitfox to live longer- Part 2 (Steve Zakreski) 23. 05:38 PM - Re: RECERTIFICATION OF A PLANE FOR LSA (Jim Crockett) 24. 06:39 PM - Re: Things to do to your Kitfox to live longer- Part 2 (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 25. 07:33 PM - Re: model IV wing tanks (Ted Palamarek) 26. 09:04 PM - Re: Things to do to your Kitfox to live longer- Part 2 (Cudnohufsky's) 27. 10:25 PM - Bungies (Graeme Toft) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:52:27 AM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: KF flight simulator --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Pete, I think it was about our Michel from Norway and the program he helps create. He modeled his Fox on it to get accurate flight characteristics for his practice flying. Michel, are you there? Kurt S. --- Pete Sigrist wrote: > A friend thought that he saw a post about a KF > flight simulator a month or so back. Would > appreciate any info that anyone may have. > thanks ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:07:14 AM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: REFUELING FIRE! --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Very interesting story. We hear about it, but not often enough to think it really does happen and we should be wary. Just an off comment to add. I have a recreation vehicle that has a propane powered frig and water heater. These have open air burners on the side of the vehicle not far from the gas tank port. I have to be aware every time I fill up to turn off the appliances, or one might "light off" while I am fueling and ignite the fumes. Poor design??? Refueling is much more dangerous than we give credit to and we tend to take for granted that it will always happen safely because it did before. Not necessarily true. Kurt S. --- Michel Verheughe wrote: > Torgeir Mortensen wrote: > > Thought I should share this little story -cause it > happened to my friend > > Alfred, the builder of my Kitfox model II. > > Scary! I wonder: Is there more chance to get static > electricity with a plane, > than with a car? If so, why? > > Just wondering. > > Michel > > do not archive __________________________________ http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:11:45 AM PST US From: "Jose M. Toro" Subject: Kitfox-List: Jabiru 2200 FF Kit --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" Hi All: I just received my Jabiru 220 firewall forward kit. My first thought was "What should I do with all this stuff?". I'm ready for a cheerleader Michel. Haven't seen pictures of your project lately. My real first question is the following: I will be switching from the KF round cowling to the Skyfox cowling. I will need to prepare a new firewall to fit the new cowling. I don't have a good idea on how to prepare a template. Any suggestion??? Regards! Jose M. Toro, P.E. Kitfox II/582 "A slow flight in the Caribbean..." --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:09:11 AM PST US From: KITFOXZ@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: REFUELING FIRE! --> Kitfox-List message posted by: KITFOXZ@aol.com In a message dated 1/15/2005 5:18:39 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com writes: Very interesting story. We hear about it, but not often enough to think it really does happen and we should be wary. Just an off comment to add.... I have a story to add that shows us that if the conditions are just right...WOOOF!!! I was cutting grass with a push lawn mower once out in the open lawn on a very still dry summer evening. The mower ran out of fuel on one leg of my square circuit around the uncut grass. I brought the gasoline can out to the mower and refueled where the mower sat. I don't remember spilling any of it in the process, not even a spoon full. I took the gas can back up to the house for storage and walked back to the mower, started the engine and off I went continuing my circuit. When I reached the point again where the engine had quit (and my refueling spot), the mower made a click sound as it hit a stone and tossed it across the yard. Before the stone even left the mower deck, WOOOF! I was covered in flames for about 1 second. It amazed me that conditions could be that perfect to support a flame that large after what had to be five minutes! John P. Marzluf Columbus, Ohio Outback, (out back in the garage) ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:40:27 AM PST US From: KITFOXZ@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Things to do to your Kitfox to live longer- Part 2 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: KITFOXZ@aol.com In a message dated 1/15/2005 12:25:01 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, szakreski@shaw.ca writes: Engine failure on Climb out: We hear too often of engine failures on climb out, often during first flight. So what should you do? Well I'll tell you what I did... When I learned to fly, my instructor always wanted me to pull the nose up for best rate of climb until we had over flown the entire runway. Now I know the objective is to gain as much altitude as soon as possible and the aircraft is supposed to be able to handle it by producing full power at that high angle of climb for several minutes but... Why tempt fate with a new un-flight tested virgin bird? I want to be sure she has the stuff to make a full power max climb way before that first flight day. Yet, when that day arrives I am not going to go for broke on the very first climb out! My test field runway will be several times the distance needed to make a moderate climb out to 1,000 ft. and I WILL be able to land straight ahead if she even thinks about coughing one time! Now I just need to get a reservation at Area 51. John P. Marzluf Columbus, Ohio Outback, (out back in the garage) ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:58:02 AM PST US From: "Floran Higgins" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: REFUELING FIRE! --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins" When I first purchased my Kitfox I was fueling with plastic gas cans. The funnel I had was plastic with two layers of felt in it to catch any gunk that might be in the gas, On several occasions I could feel the hair on my arm rising up from static electity. I purchased a metal funnel and installed an eyebolt on it. I took a wire with clips on it and attached it to the eyebolt and to the grove landing gear. I then took another wire with clips and attached it to the grove gear and to the metal hanger. I have not had any indication of static electity since. Floran H. ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: REFUELING FIRE! > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: KITFOXZ@aol.com > > In a message dated 1/15/2005 5:18:39 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com writes: > > Very interesting story. We hear about it, but not > often enough to think it really does happen and we > should be wary. > > Just an off comment to add.... > I have a story to add that shows us that if the conditions are just > right...WOOOF!!! > I was cutting grass with a push lawn mower once out in the open lawn on a > very still dry summer evening. The mower ran out of fuel on one leg of my > square circuit around the uncut grass. I brought the gasoline can out to the > mower and refueled where the mower sat. I don't remember spilling any of it in > the process, not even a spoon full. I took the gas can back up to the house > for storage and walked back to the mower, started the engine and off I went > continuing my circuit. When I reached the point again where the engine had > quit (and my refueling spot), the mower made a click sound as it hit a stone > and tossed it across the yard. Before the stone even left the mower deck, > WOOOF! I was covered in flames for about 1 second. It amazed me that conditions > could be that perfect to support a flame that large after what had to be five > minutes! > > John P. Marzluf > Columbus, Ohio > Outback, (out back in the garage) > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:21:50 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: KF flight simulator --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe kurt schrader wrote: > Michel, are you there? ... Who, me? He, Kurt, it's Saturday, the only occasion I can work in the hangar in daylight. Guess where I spent the day? :-) Pete, yes, I made my Kitfox 3 as a model for the X-Plane flight simulator. The sim can be found at x-plane.com and the model, at x-plane.org. Go to the version 7 archive, under Homebuilt. its flight model. Note that I don't think you'll be able to land my simulated Kitfox without pedals. ... it is also true in the real life! :-) Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:28:05 AM PST US From: "Cudnohufsky's" <7suds@chartermi.net> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Things to do to your Kitfox to live longer- Part 2 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cudnohufsky's" <7suds@chartermi.net> Group, Steve, I like this topic, I often read about aircraft mishaps and what leads up to them, it scares me and I like flying with those sober thoughts in mind. With that said, a little info I have learned on ground loops. I flew a IV for years and am now working on a 5, no ground loops to date. Most people learn to fly in a tricycle gear aircraft then transition to a tail dragger. Tricycle gear aircraft have their CG forward of the main gear and when landing with the aircraft in a crab (not recommended) they have a tendency to straighten out the crabbed landing approach because the weight is in front of the mains and the force of the landing forces the nose back into the direction of the landing, making a sloppy approach into an OK landing. Taildraggers however have their CG aft of the mains so a sloppy approach (Crabbed) will result in the tail of the aircraft being forced into the direction of the landing making the crabbed approach worse and inducing a ground loop. With that said what is the proper approach method for crosswind landings, a great source for information on this topic is a video called "Taming the Taildragger" I will not go into great detail hear but encourage all to watch the video if you get a chance. In short, crosswind approaches need the proper slip applied to control drift, making a landing on the 1 main wheel that is into the slip and allowing speed to bleed while rolling more flaperon into the wind as speed bleeds and the tail settles, lots of practice, and practicing slips, the fox slips great! Gusting crosswinds add a whole new twist. Take off attitude: I agree, keep it reasonable for the runway, Use the entire runway, and continue climbing the entire length of the runway. read an article of a gentleman who was at a small fly-in with his father, leaving a grass strip and decided to hold it on the ground and pull it up hard and steep, engine coughed and quit, he did not have enough altitude for the plane to rotate from the steep nose up attitude and resume flight speed before impacting the ground. Unfortunately his father died in the mishap. We must always think, "What if?" Fly Safe! Lloyd ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Zakreski" Subject: Kitfox-List: Things to do to your Kitfox to live longer- Part 2 > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski > > OK...do you have a knot in you stomach now? Good. Flying is dangerous. > The > Kitfox is probably one of the safer aircraft out there, but all flying is > dangerous. Go forward fully aware, fully prepared, fully alert. Damn its > fun. > > Family time...bye > > SteveZ > Calgary > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:33:57 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jabiru 2200 FF Kit --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe "Jose M. Toro" wrote: > I just received my Jabiru 220 firewall forward kit. My first thought was "What should I do > with all this stuff?". Congratulations, Jose! > I'm ready for a cheerleader Michel. Haven't seen pictures of your project lately. Here they are, fresh from today. Be careful, the paint may not be dried yet! :-) http://home.online.no/~michel/tmp/left.jpg http://home.online.no/~michel/tmp/outlet.jpg http://home.online.no/~michel/tmp/hangar.jpg http://home.online.no/~michel/tmp/outletClose.jpg http://home.online.no/~michel/tmp/right.jpg > I don't have a good idea on how to prepare a template. Any suggestion??? No idea, Jose! As you know, I went for the "modified round cowling" instead of the "Skyfox cowling." My decision was based on the fact that I felt more confident to build my own cowling in fiberglass, than modifying the existing firewall, glareshield, windshield and panel. The new cowling was a tedious job. If I had had line drawings of the existing cowl, I could have made the mods on a 3D CAD tool, make section templates, sandwich them in foam and cut it to a nice plug, from which I would have made a mould. But, because I lacked that, I had to make a concave mould around the installed engine, using cardboard. Not an easy task. What remains now is the electrical wiring of the engine, the NACA air duct to the airbox, and a few more details. I have already talked to my inspector for a first test flight in the two first weeks of February. Let me know if you have questions (only questions I can answer! :-) Jose. I find the Jabiru very easy to install as everything is included in the package. It is - as many have confirmed - the cowling that is really time consuming. Suerte con tu nuevo projecto, amigo! Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:25:01 AM PST US From: "DeWayne Clifford" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: model IV wing tanks --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "DeWayne Clifford" I seem to recall an incident when fuel spilled into the flaparon pivot and damaged the foam airfoils . I just don't have documentation to show it ! DeWayne ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: model IV wing tanks > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com > > In a message dated 1/11/05 8:57:22 AM Pacific Standard Time, lynnmatt@jps.net > writes: > > << > Maybe somebody needs to come up with a seal that would prevent fuel > from getting into the flaperon....sort of like maybe a piece of >> > > First off, I don't recall a single case (9+ years now) where gasoline has > entered the flapperons and caused any damage. Just maybe, there is no problem in > this area?? > > Don Smythe > N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:13:13 AM PST US From: Jim Gilliatt Subject: Kitfox-List: Camera --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Gilliatt Hi Michel, I need to take some pictures or my airplane, and I need to get a digital camera. The pictures that you took are great, and it seems that I should find out what sort of a camera that you used. I'm not much of a camera buff, so all I need is something easy, simple and not expensive enought to cause me to miss a meal. Also, easy enough to upload to my computer. Thanks, Jim Gilliatt ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:27:04 AM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Things to do to your Kitfox to live longer- Part 2 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com << Taildraggers however have their CG aft of the mains so a sloppy approach (Crabbed) will result in the tail of the aircraft being forced into the direction of the landing making the crabbed approach worse and inducing a ground loop. With that said what is the proper approach method for crosswind landings, >> Well, I have discussed this subject with an old tailwheel instructor friend and we both kind of agree that making the approach in a crab gives the pilot some unknown information. With practice, it tells you how much crosswind you are dealing with (angle of crab). Normally, as you dip below the trees, you will see the crab angle reduce again, telling you how much crosswind you have at lower levels (closer to the runway). Prior to a flare, straighten the airplane and convert to a wing low/slip for the touch down. In other words, combine both methods and learn on the way down what you have to deal with. So, rather than call the crab a sloppy approach, I prefer to look at it as an educational approach. Of course, you wouldn't want to touch down in a crab. That could turn back to sloppy real quick. Don Smythe N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:46:40 AM PST US From: "Roger McConnell" Subject: Kitfox-List: Lite Squared Missing --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Roger McConnell" Just heard on the news this morning about a pilot of a Kitfox Lite Squared traveling from Paris Texas to Shawnee Oklahoma has been reported missing; hear in my neck of the woods. The CAP is out looking for him. It was reported he took off yesterday morning. Does anybody on the list know who the pilot might be? Roger Mac ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:53:14 AM PST US From: customtrans@qwest.net Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Things to do to your Kitfox to live longer- Part 2 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net Wow, finally someone that has my thinking. I got chastised a few times for crabbing all the way down to landing and then straightening and doing a beautiful land. I generally have too much trouble having a straight landing from start to finish. Like was said, you really see what the cross wind is doing if you let it crab. steve a -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Things to do to your Kitfox to live longer- Part 2 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com << Taildraggers however have their CG aft of the mains so a sloppy approach (Crabbed) will result in the tail of the aircraft being forced into the direction of the landing making the crabbed approach worse and inducing a ground loop. With that said what is the proper approach method for crosswind landings, >> Well, I have discussed this subject with an old tailwheel instructor friend and we both kind of agree that making the approach in a crab gives the pilot some unknown information. With practice, it tells you how much crosswind you are dealing with (angle of crab). Normally, as you dip below the trees, you will see the crab angle reduce again, telling you how much crosswind you have at lower levels (closer to the runway). Prior to a flare, straighten the airplane and convert to a wing low/slip for the touch down. In other words, combine both methods and learn on the way down what you have to deal with. So, rather than call the crab a sloppy approach, I prefer to look at it as an educational approach. Of course, you wouldn't want to touch down in a crab. That could turn back to sloppy real quick. Don Smythe N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:11:08 PM PST US From: "Fred Weaver" Subject: Kitfox-List: NSI Prop and Company Question? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver" This was recently posted on the Rans S7 group list. The sender is Ken Couey. His email is kcouey@canetmail.com If anyone on this list can provide some information, could you please reply to both of us? Thank you very much, Fred Weaver I installed a NSI CAP 140 on my S6S, 912S, just over 2 years ago. I have 400 hrs. on it , and it has performed flawlessly. Because of the Version. #1's on 912S's having a history of four props being thrown, I decided to see what Version I had. Sure enough - I had Version #1... I tried to contact NSI via phone months ago, but only got a message machine, to which I left a request for a return call. It was weeks before I finally sent an email, asking for some input. I finally did get a return call. Mr. Wheeler indicated that all failures were pilot induced, however he was going to come out with a Version #3, just to be on the safe side. My plane went AOG mid October '04 per the request to stop flying with that prop. Mr. Wheeler said that Version #3 would be available early December. I sent my blades to NSI mid November. I have made numerous phone calls and emails, with no response from NSI. Can any one out there give me some input on NSI, experience they may of had with their props, and the company. As of this writing, I seem to be out of flying and I have no idea if they are even still in business.. Any help would be appreciated.. This has been a terrible experience - Give me some input -------------------- Ken Again, Ken's email address is kcouey@canetmail.com ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:23:05 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: model IV wing tanks --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Yes if I remember correctly, it happened to one of our list members. The foam was melted out and it took away most of the structural integrity at the root/control end of the flapperon. If I remember, he had to refill it and make a new end cap at the root??? Kurt S. --- DeWayne Clifford wrote: > I seem to recall an incident when fuel spilled into > the flaparon pivot and > damaged the foam airfoils . > I just don't have documentation to show it ! > > DeWayne ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:25:51 PM PST US From: "David Dawe" Subject: Kitfox-List: Fw: Google Alert - kitfox --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David Dawe" ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Dawe" Subject: FW: Google Alert - kitfox > > > >From: Google Alerts > >To: davedawe@msn.com > >Subject: Google Alert - kitfox > >Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 12:02:09 -0800 (PST) > > > >OFFICIALS search Oklahoma, Texas for missing plane > >KOKH FOX25 - Oklahoma City,OK,USA > >... person aboard. The aircraft is described as a blue and white Kitfox > >Lite Squared -- a single-engine, two-seat airplane. Major Charles ... > > > > > >This once a day Google Alert is brought to you by Google... > >- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > >Remove this Google Alert: > >http://www.google.com/alerts/remove?s=29789a7f22a1b975&hl=en > > > >Create another Google Alert: > >http://www.google.com/alerts?hl=en > > > >Sign in to manage your alerts: > >http://www.google.com/alerts/manage?hl=en > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.12 - Release Date: 14/01/2005 > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:11:01 PM PST US From: "Don Pearsall" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: NSI Prop and Company Question? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" Lance Wheeler is a semi-frequent poster to this list. In fact he recently posted a message here a few days ago. So obviously he is still around. Hopefully he will see this message and respond. Don Pearsall -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Weaver Subject: Kitfox-List: NSI Prop and Company Question? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver" This was recently posted on the Rans S7 group list. The sender is Ken Couey. His email is kcouey@canetmail.com If anyone on this list can provide some information, could you please reply to both of us? Thank you very much, Fred Weaver I installed a NSI CAP 140 on my S6S, 912S, just over 2 years ago. I have 400 hrs. on it , and it has performed flawlessly. Because of the Version. #1's on 912S's having a history of four props being thrown, I decided to see what Version I had. Sure enough - I had Version #1... I tried to contact NSI via phone months ago, but only got a message machine, to which I left a request for a return call. It was weeks before I finally sent an email, asking for some input. I finally did get a return call. Mr. Wheeler indicated that all failures were pilot induced, however he was going to come out with a Version #3, just to be on the safe side. My plane went AOG mid October '04 per the request to stop flying with that prop. Mr. Wheeler said that Version #3 would be available early December. I sent my blades to NSI mid November. I have made numerous phone calls and emails, with no response from NSI. Can any one out there give me some input on NSI, experience they may of had with their props, and the company. As of this writing, I seem to be out of flying and I have no idea if they are even still in business.. Any help would be appreciated.. This has been a terrible experience - Give me some input -------------------- Ken Again, Ken's email address is kcouey@canetmail.com ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:40:02 PM PST US From: "Peter Graichen" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: NSI Prop and Company Question? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Peter Graichen" I installed a NSI CAP 140 on my S6S, 912S, just over 2 years ago. I have 400 hrs. on it , and it has performed flawlessly. Because of the Version. #1's on 912S's having a history of four props being thrown, I decided to see what Version I had. Sure enough - I had Version #1... I tried to contact NSI via phone ....... and I have no idea if they are even still in business.. Any help would be appreciated.. This has been a terrible experience - Give me some input -------------------- Ken Again, Ken's email address is kcouey@canetmail.com Hello Ken: I have been flying my Kitfox5 behind a NSI Subaru with CAP for nine years and 900 trouble-free hours. Yes, NSI is still in business and very active. In my nine years of dealing with NSI, I have always found Lance, Heather, Dawn and Craig to be very honest and helpful. They have always responded to my needs the best and fastest they could under given circumstances. I have found that if you treat them well, courteous and honestly, they will treat you likewise. Don't give up; give them another shot. Their products are second to none! Sincerely, Peter K. Graichen http://home.neo.rr.com/n10pg/kitfox.htm ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:47:06 PM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: model IV wing tanks --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com << Yes if I remember correctly, it happened to one of our list members. The foam was melted out and it took away most of the structural integrity at the root/control end of the flapperon. If I remember, he had to refill it and make a new end cap at the root??? Kurt S. >> Man,,,,, I'm getting old but I read everything and I simply don't recall this. Would the person that this happened to please come back. I was filling my plane just yesterday and thinking about this subject. Several times I have overflowed a tank and had it spill off the trailing edge of the wing. It never crossed my mind that the fuel might be running into the flapperon hinge and causing damage. Another thing that crossed my mind. When I take fuel to the airport, I "ALWAYS" fill the 5 gal container while it sits in the trunk of my car. I'm too lazy to take it out, sit it on the ground and then, put it back into the trunk.....Was reading an article today (referencing the fire thread we just had) and it talked about that very thing. Fueling a gas can while sitting in the car or, sitting in the back of a pickup (with bed liner) will build up a static charge real quick. I either learn something everyday or become aware of something due to this list. Thanks folks. Don Smythe N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 04:54:34 PM PST US From: "Dee Young" Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuel in the flapperon Seal-Send-Time: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 17:20:12 -0700 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" I also remember the incident but don't remember who had the trouble. I have always been careful since to avoid this type of thing happing and always clean up after fueling. Dee Young N345DY Model II Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 05:12:40 PM PST US From: Steve Zakreski Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Things to do to your Kitfox to live longer- Part 2 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski Crabbing is also a lot kinder on the passengers. Slips scare the bejeebers out of most. SteveZ -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of customtrans@qwest.net Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Things to do to your Kitfox to live longer- Part 2 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net Wow, finally someone that has my thinking. I got chastised a few times for crabbing all the way down to landing and then straightening and doing a beautiful land. I generally have too much trouble having a straight landing from start to finish. Like was said, you really see what the cross wind is doing if you let it crab. steve a -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Things to do to your Kitfox to live longer- Part 2 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com << Taildraggers however have their CG aft of the mains so a sloppy approach (Crabbed) will result in the tail of the aircraft being forced into the direction of the landing making the crabbed approach worse and inducing a ground loop. With that said what is the proper approach method for crosswind landings, >> Well, I have discussed this subject with an old tailwheel instructor friend and we both kind of agree that making the approach in a crab gives the pilot some unknown information. With practice, it tells you how much crosswind you are dealing with (angle of crab). Normally, as you dip below the trees, you will see the crab angle reduce again, telling you how much crosswind you have at lower levels (closer to the runway). Prior to a flare, straighten the airplane and convert to a wing low/slip for the touch down. In other words, combine both methods and learn on the way down what you have to deal with. So, rather than call the crab a sloppy approach, I prefer to look at it as an educational approach. Of course, you wouldn't want to touch down in a crab. That could turn back to sloppy real quick. Don Smythe N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 05:38:57 PM PST US From: Jim Crockett Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RECERTIFICATION OF A PLANE FOR LSA --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Crockett The problem with this EAA statement is that it still does not definitively answer the question many of us Kitfox owners are interested in. That is - Can we reduce the gross weight of our Series V, 6 or 7 to come within the LSA criterion for weight? Since Experimentals are under a different certification standard than the Luscombe, since the STC process does not apply to Experimentals, and since we are the builders who apply for certification, it would seem to me that there should be no technical reason why we cannot easily recategorize Experimental aircraft to LSA. The other thing I find curious about not being able to reduce the gross weight of certified aircraft by STC is that the FAA does this in effect all the time when ADs point out some spar problem or other. Jim Crockett Richard Hutson wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Hutson" > >This is from the EAA email letter, I have noticed several posts regarding this subject and decided to share . >Q & A: >Question of the Week >Question for EAA Aviation Services: > >As indicated on the sportpilot.org website, standard certificate aircraft might have their eligibility for LSA altered due to modification by STC or field approval. I have an opportunity to acquire a beautiful Luscombe 8E and would like to operate it as an LSA, but the gross takeoff weight is 1400 lbs, 80 lbs too high. Maybe this is a foolish question, but what are the chances of getting a gross takeoff weight lowered (say roughly 80 lbs or so) by STC or field approval? Any chance? > >Answer: > >No, you would not be able to modify the 8E so as to be eligible for operation by sport pilots. A sport pilot must fly an aircraft that meets the definition of a light sport aircraft (LSA). The definition of a light-sport aircraft, as called out in 14 CFR 1.1, requires that an aircraft be originally certificated and continuously operated within the LSA definition. The Luscombe 8E was not originally certificated within the LSA definition, nor has it been continuously operated within the definition. Thus, it cannot be made eligible for operation by a sport pilot, regardless of what modifications are made. > > > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:39:24 PM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Things to do to your Kitfox to live longer- Part 2 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com In a message dated 1/15/05 5:24:53 PM Pacific Standard Time, szakreski@shaw.ca writes: << Crabbing is also a lot kinder on the passengers. Slips scare the bejeebers out of most. >> The Rich Man who has flown since the beginning of time has refused to fly with with if I ever do a slip again. For some reason, he feels a slip is a very dangerous maneuber???????????? Don Smythe N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:33:23 PM PST US From: "Ted Palamarek" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: model IV wing tanks --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ted Palamarek" Kurt & Don The problem with the melted Styrofoam in the flaperon was discussed in around Nov/2003 under the heading of "Newbie Flaperon Problem" and was concluded on Jan 19/2004. Ron Carroll was the guy that had the problem. Recall he had a lot of movement in the spar within the flaperon. In addition to the foam being melted he also had an alignment problem. His January message indicated what he did to resolve his problem. So yes, there was a gas eating away foam problem. Just put Newbie Flaperon Problems into the Matronics archive search engine and it will bring up all the e-mails. Ted P Edmonton, Ab DO NOT ARCHIVE <<<>>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: model IV wing tanks --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com Yes if I remember correctly, it happened to one of our list members. The foam was melted out and it took away most of the structural integrity at the root/control end of the flapperon. If I remember, he had to refill it and make a new end cap at the root??? Kurt S. >> Man,,,,, I'm getting old but I read everything and I simply don't recall this. Would the person that this happened to please come back. I was filling my plane just yesterday and thinking about this subject. Several times I have overflowed a tank and had it spill off the trailing edge of the wing. It never crossed my mind that the fuel might be running into the flapperon hinge and causing damage. Another thing that crossed my mind. When I take fuel to the airport, I "ALWAYS" fill the 5 gal container while it sits in the trunk of my car. I'm too lazy to take it out, sit it on the ground and then, put it back into the trunk.....Was reading an article today (referencing the fire thread we just had) and it talked about that very thing. Fueling a gas can while sitting in the car or, sitting in the back of a pickup (with bed liner) will build up a static charge real quick. I either learn something everyday or become aware of something due to this list. Thanks folks. Don Smythe N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 =========== Contributions other =========== http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list =========== ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 09:04:34 PM PST US From: "Cudnohufsky's" <7suds@chartermi.net> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Things to do to your Kitfox to live longer- Part 2 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cudnohufsky's" <7suds@chartermi.net> Seems I've caused quite a stir, I agree about the crabbing on approach during crosswind landings (I do it myself : ) ), but it is when you reach the runway you will need to transition to a slip in order to keep the airplane from side loading the gear. (Not a forward slip, which does seem to excite some passengers but is a useful tool for giving up altitude without gaining airspeed, also allot of fun to practice) Lloyd ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Zakreski" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Things to do to your Kitfox to live longer- Part 2 > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski > > Crabbing is also a lot kinder on the passengers. Slips scare the > bejeebers > out of most. > > SteveZ > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of > customtrans@qwest.net > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Things to do to your Kitfox to live longer- > Part 2 > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net > > Wow, finally someone that has my thinking. I got chastised a few times > for > crabbing all the way down to landing and then straightening and doing a > beautiful land. I generally have too much trouble having a straight > landing > from start to finish. Like was said, you really see what the cross wind > is > doing if you let it crab. > > steve a > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of > AlbertaIV@aol.com > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Things to do to your Kitfox to live longer- > Part 2 > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com > > << Taildraggers however have their CG aft of the mains so a sloppy > approach > (Crabbed) will result in the tail of the aircraft being forced into the > direction of the landing making the crabbed approach worse and inducing a > ground loop. With that said what is the proper approach method for > crosswind > landings, >> > > Well, I have discussed this subject with an old tailwheel instructor > friend > and we both kind of agree that making the approach in a crab gives the > pilot > some unknown information. With practice, it tells you how much crosswind > you > are dealing with (angle of crab). Normally, as you dip below the trees, > you > will see the crab angle reduce again, telling you how much crosswind you > have at > lower levels (closer to the runway). Prior to a flare, straighten the > airplane and convert to a wing low/slip for the touch down. In other > words, > combine > both methods and learn on the way down what you have to deal with. So, > rather > than call the crab a sloppy approach, I prefer to look at it as an > educational approach. Of course, you wouldn't want to touch down in a > crab. > That could > turn back to sloppy real quick. > > Don Smythe > N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 > > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 10:25:30 PM PST US From: "Graeme Toft" Subject: Kitfox-List: Bungies --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" Hi Guys, I have a ktfox model 1 and will need to replace the bungies shortly. Im pretty sure there isnt anywhere in Australia that sells them so thought I might ask for advice from the list as to any retail outlets in the states or elsewhere that would ship to Aus. Failing this being a practicle option has anyone made them themselves?. Im sure I could get them swagged if I new what the material is that there made of and the right length. Also, there are quite a few Skyfox's around whcih use the same setup. Does anyone know if the bungies for them would suit a fox. Thanks in advance. Graeme