Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:15 AM - Re: Jabiru 2200 FF Kit (Steve Cooper)
2. 01:08 AM - SV: Jabiru 2200 FF Kit (Michel Verheughe)
3. 01:18 AM - [Off-topic] Cajun WAS: Bungies (Michel Verheughe)
4. 01:50 AM - Re: Jabiru 2200 FF Kit (kurt schrader)
5. 05:14 AM - SV: Jabiru 2200 FF Kit (Michel Verheughe)
6. 05:24 AM - Re: Jabiru 2200 FF Kit (Gary Algate)
7. 06:49 AM - SV: Jabiru 2200 FF Kit (Michel Verheughe)
8. 07:25 AM - 912 AD (Gunn, Michael (Space Technology))
9. 07:38 AM - Re: 912 AD (customtrans@qwest.net)
10. 12:47 PM - OFF TOPIC - Hey, I'm in sunny Texas (robert.mcclintock)
11. 12:55 PM - OFF TOPIC - sunny Texas (Dee Young)
12. 02:56 PM - Noise in Jabiru (Rex & Jan Shaw)
13. 04:41 PM - Re: Things to do to your Kitfox to live longer- (Guy Buchanan)
14. 04:59 PM - Kreeming a Fuel Tank ()
15. 05:31 PM - Re: Things to do to your Kitfox to live longer (icaza francisco)
16. 06:05 PM - Re: Delcom AIR 960 Radio (Norm Beauchamp)
17. 06:32 PM - Re: 912 AD (Lowell Fitt)
18. 07:08 PM - Re: Kreeming a Fuel Tank (Rick)
19. 09:36 PM - Re: 912 AD (Jimmie Blackwell)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Jabiru 2200 FF Kit |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
I know what you mean about getting used to the sounds an engine makes. Yep,
I've adjusted the valves several times AND I've adjusted them "tight" and on
the "loose" side to check audible differences. It is a little louder when
adjusted loose...but it's not the same sound I hear when the engine is hot.
I was wondering if it's the same for every 2200. The sound is like a
tinkling noise. Very metallic...but no grinding or anything like that. It's
not detination or intake suction or exhaust.It's very rapid. Not the fuel
pump. It's not a dull sound but not a squeal either. Oh well, who
knows...maybe nothing or something terrible. Power is very good...everything
I hoped for. Hey...thanks for the help.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kurt schrader
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Jabiru 2200 FF Kit
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
I understand Steve,
Can you describe the sound better? The stethescope
will likely find the area of concern for you, but I
could be wrong about it being the valves. I assumned
they are mechanical and not hydraulic valves, for
example....
I just looked that up and they are pushrods. At idle,
valves clatter faster than the engine is running. You
should hear that at the valve covers pretty well.
A crank or rod bearing will hammer much slower. The
fuel pump can also tap at a slow rate.
The thing that gets me is that it does it when hot.
That usually is due to engine and push rod expansion
at different rates giving more valve noise. Also the
oil thins. That would be good since it is the easiest
to fix. Check your vavle clearance, hot or cold per
the book.
I am still just getting used to the noise my NSI
makes. Only recently did I even hear the turbo
operating.
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
--- Steve Cooper <spdrflyr@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Thanks Kurt-appreciate the suggestion. It's
> something that bothers me. I purchased this engine
> with only 5 hours on it...but I went ahead and
> rebuilt it anyway. The bottom end was completely
> upgraded to match the current version of the 2200.
> This added several hundred dollars up and above the
> purchase price of the engine. I'd sure hate to have
> something happen to it.
>
> Steve
__________________________________
Message 2
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| Subject: | Jabiru 2200 FF Kit |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Hello Steve,
> From: Steve Cooper [spdrflyr@earthlink.net]
> Hey...there is something I've been wondering about and perhaps you could
> assist me in a little experiment.
I will, of course, do that, Steve. Incidentally, I also have the habit to taxi
the last 50 yards to the hangar without the headset (and the door open) to check
for noises.
But I think you are already in good hands with doctor Kurt and his stethoscope.
:-)
Alternatively, there is the yahoo.jabiruengines list that could answer your question.
If you don't feel like subscribing to yet another list, I can ask the question
for you.
Just let me know.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | [Off-topic] Cajun WAS: Bungies |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
> From: Jerry Liles [wliles@bayou.com]
> Not in cowboy country Michel. I'm from bayou country - Louisiana -
> alligators, muskrats, catfish, snapping turtles, crawfish and fishing boats.
Ahhh! La Louisiane! Le pays des Acadiens, or Cajun, as you pronounce it! :-)
Indeed, too much swamp for the big horns, Jerry. No Malboro country there but ...
great food! :-)
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Jabiru 2200 FF Kit |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Steve,
Michel has some good ideas with checking at the other
list.
Also that does sound like some lose exhaust noise too,
but you said no. No lose metal in the muffler? Try
the stethescope idea next as well as Michel's
contacts. It is good to know nothing is wrong, but
not good to assume it.
Kurt S.
--- Steve Cooper <spdrflyr@earthlink.net> wrote:
> The sound is like a tinkling noise. Very metallic...
> but no grinding or anything like that. It's
> not detination or intake suction or exhaust.It's
> very rapid. Not the fuel pump. It's not a dull sound
> but not a squeal either. Oh well, who
> knows...maybe nothing or something terrible. Power
> is very good...everything
> I hoped for. Hey...thanks for the help.
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
Message 5
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| Subject: | Jabiru 2200 FF Kit |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
> From: kurt schrader [smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com]
> Michel has some good ideas with checking at the other
> list.
Ok.
Steve, on the doctor's orders ... :-) I have written to the Jabiru list a detail
of your problems, quoting your definition of the noise you hear.
I'll let you know as soon as I get an answer.
Michel - Liaison Officer :-)
Do not archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | Jabiru 2200 FF Kit |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
I once had a tinkling sound on my 582 that took quite some time to track
down. It ended up being the bendix drive on the starter vibrating out on the
helix and hitting the flywheel. It would only do it at certain revs so it
was really difficult to find
Just a thought
GaryA
Lite2/582
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Cooper
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Jabiru 2200 FF Kit
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
I know what you mean about getting used to the sounds an engine makes. Yep,
I've adjusted the valves several times AND I've adjusted them "tight" and on
the "loose" side to check audible differences. It is a little louder when
adjusted loose...but it's not the same sound I hear when the engine is hot.
I was wondering if it's the same for every 2200. The sound is like a
tinkling noise. Very metallic...but no grinding or anything like that. It's
not detination or intake suction or exhaust.It's very rapid. Not the fuel
pump. It's not a dull sound but not a squeal either. Oh well, who
knows...maybe nothing or something terrible. Power is very good...everything
I hoped for. Hey...thanks for the help.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Jabiru 2200 FF Kit |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
... pfff, pffff! Sorry guys, I have been running between the two lists! :-)
Steve, here is the rather laconic answer from Pete, a well-informed Aussie who
answers most of the questions on the Jabiru list, with great knowledge:
"Check the cowl attachments or the exhaust springs."
Ok, I fail to understand how this could be actual only when the engine is hot,
as you said, and as I told the Jabiru list.
Anyway, it looks like the behaviour you describe is not a well-know major failure
warning. So it can only be one of the two:
1) Your engine has a newly discovered failure and maybe it will be remembered in
the future with associated with your name, or:
2) It is a non important and maybe even non-engine related noise that nobody has
noticed before.
We hope for the second, friend! :-)
I'll let you know if I hear more. But I doubt anyone will argue with Pete on that
list.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 8
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gunn, Michael (Space Technology)" <michael.gunn@ngc.com>
For those who have the 912 or 912S...
The AD I just received from the FAA in the mail directs me to vent my oil system.
If I already have a vent from the top of the sump tank, is that acceptable?
I have 160 hours on my engine.
Message 9
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
I was wondering the same thing.
steve a
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gunn,
Michael (Space Technology)
Subject: Kitfox-List: 912 AD
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gunn, Michael (Space Technology)"
<michael.gunn@ngc.com>
For those who have the 912 or 912S...
The AD I just received from the FAA in the mail directs me to vent my oil
system. If I already have a vent from the top of the sump tank, is that
acceptable?
I have 160 hours on my engine.
Message 10
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| Subject: | OFF TOPIC - Hey, I'm in sunny Texas |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "robert.mcclintock" <robert.mcclintock@sbcglobal.net>
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Hi Guys,
It's been a while since I left the list and I just wanted to let you know that
the wife and I are alive, well and living in Corpus Christi!
The Arctic Fox has been put into her new hangar and my good friends in Nome will
be looking after her until we return to Nome in the Spring.
I think I'm gonna' fly her down to TX in late summer/early fall. Boy, that adventure
already has me excited. Once I get her down here, off come the wheels and
on will go the floats.
Saying that, I begin my quest to find some floats for her so if anybody has any
leads and a set that will work on a S5, here I am and let me know!
It was 6F when we got on the jet a week ago last Friday. Today, it's a balmy 72F
and I'm in shorts. It's kinda' embarrassing "blinding" everyone with my white
pallor but then these legs haven't seen much sun since '89 or so.
Anyway, I'm back on the list and missed your banter while I was gone.
Scott McClintock (Nome, AK.) Corpus Christi, TX.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 11
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| Subject: | OFF TOPIC - sunny Texas |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
Welcome back Robert, When you start south with your plane this spring. I
live in Idaho and could hanger you for a night or two if you need. Just let
me know.
Dee Young
Model II
N345DY
Do Not Archive
Message 12
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
Hey...there is something I've been wondering about
> and perhaps you could assist me in a little
> experiment.....
> I hear a very slightly elevated "mechanical" sound
> coming from the engine when it's hot..........
> Steve
Steve,
Rex here from Australia. I fly a Jab with 2200 engine a fair bit.
It's done about 850 hrs airswitch time. The sound does change after flight.
I think I possibly hear the same noise as you. Hard to say for sure from
here, but a couple of things that I've seen that might be relavent is the
flywheel bolts come lose and hit the alternator coils. We wired ours after
the event and I believe Jabiru do now as well.
Another Jabiru in our club was chasing a noise something like you say. The
guy thought it was mechanical anyway, but it turned out a small hole was
burning in one exhaust header pipe.
Our club Jabiru was always developing a miss after 25 to 30 hrs on the
plugs right from new. We only recently fixed it. All the intake pipes to the
carby are a messy arrangement providing ample opportunitty for air leaks.
Performance picked up markedly when we fixed this so we knew we had found
something. The plugs now run to 100 hrs no trouble. We discovered this by
chance when we had to fix damage from the flywheel bolts.
Probably though you have nothing to worry about in actual fact. Goodluck
!
rexjan@bigpond.com
Message 13
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| Subject: | Things to do to your Kitfox to live longer- |
Part 2
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com> Part 2
At 05:38 PM 1/15/2005 -0700, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski <szakreski@shaw.ca>
>
>Crabbing is also a lot kinder on the passengers. Slips scare the bejeebers
>out of most.
>
>SteveZ
This is something I'll have to ask my passengers in the future. I always
thought the landing slip looked better because the plane was aligned with
the runway with one wing just a little down. I remember well my own tension
as we crabbed to the deck, kicking it out at the last minute. (I learned
both ways.) I can't imagine what a non pilot must be thinking as the plane
comes in sideways. I agree, though, that what I call "elevator slips" are
probably the scariest for passengers. With passengers I go around if I'm
too high. (My instructor once told me that passengers only remember the
last landing. Make it a good one.)
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Kreeming a Fuel Tank |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: <brettandsandy@numail.org>
Looking for some experienced advice.
I am going to Kreem my tanks. They are clean and new and ready to go. How
much should I use and, how thick should it be and, do I put on more than one
coat. Here is my plan. Pour in one quart undiluted, slosh then drain out
excess. Just when good and tacky, pour in second quart and then drain. Wadda
ya think? Will it work better if thinned some or is two coats overkill? I
have 13 gallon tanks.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Things to do to your Kitfox to live longer |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: icaza francisco <franicaza@yahoo.com.mx>
Steve,
A NavAid could also be useful in those situations, I
think.
Francisco Icaza, Classic IV
My opinion is all
> working aircraft need some
> kind of attitude indication to get you out of
> trouble.
>
> supper time. bye for now.
>
>
> SteveZ
> calgary
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Delcom AIR 960 Radio |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Norm Beauchamp <nebchmp@wcc.net>
Rex,
I have one panel mounted with a fixed antenna. I had to move the
antenna lead cable to get rid of some noise to mine. Otherwise it
works fine so far. The address and phone number have changed since I
purchased mine in 2000 in the states. And when I spoke with them a few
months ago they were no longer selling the units here due to problems at
the factory. Norm
Rex & Jan Shaw wrote:
>
> Hi ! Guys, My friend has a Delcom radio model AIR960 and is having
> trouble. Probably because he hasn't got a Kitfox. Just joking ! He
> has what we call a 95-10 here in Australia. It's a Col Winton Swing
> Wing and it's got a Rotax 277 in it. Don't laugh that little motor
> cruises at 65 knots on 6 litres an hour. OK let's get to the problem.
> His radio recieves OK but with the motor at anything above idle his
> transmission breaks up terrible. He uses it handheld but has tried
> external antennas, mic's and headphones. My old Icom A20 and another
> handheld both work OK in his plane. Has anybody on list tried a
> Delcom AIR960 and if so what's it like ?
>
> Rex Shaw
>
> Australia
>
> Classic MKIV/582 rexjan@bigpond.com
>
>
Message 17
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
Michael,
The only time I saw the word Venting in a service bulletin it referred to a
procedure to remove air in the oil system after oil change. In my opinion
the word "venting" is a poor translation from the German of what the
bulletin actually recommends.
Essentially what it recommends is a process whereby the system is
pressurized at the tank to force oil under low pressure from the tank to the
pump and beyond so the pump will not have to suck air before the oil
actually reaches the pump from the tank. A part of the bulletin requires
that the prop never be counter rotated a procedure that might suck air into
the oil system.
Rotax has found that on new engines, rebuilt engines and engines that have
been drained of oil during oil change can sustain damage if the air is not
purged from the oil lines before engine start. This bulletin lists a
procedure for "venting" purging air from the system and a procedure for
inspecting the valve train if it is felt that it may have been damaged due
to inadequate or no "venting"
Go to: http://www.rotax-owner.com/sdocs.htm
Click on "Engine Serial Number" This gives you the opportunity of checking
all bulletins affecting you own engine.
Select your engine model and then type in your serial number and click on
"Search". All bulletins specific to your engine should come up. The
bulletin number is: SB-912-036 dated 8/2002
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gunn, Michael (Space Technology)" <michael.gunn@ngc.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: 912 AD
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gunn, Michael (Space Technology)"
<michael.gunn@ngc.com>
>
> For those who have the 912 or 912S...
> The AD I just received from the FAA in the mail directs me to vent my oil
system. If I already have a vent from the top of the sump tank, is that
acceptable?
> I have 160 hours on my engine.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Kreeming a Fuel Tank |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
Are you going to use auto fuel? If not why do it?
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
brettandsandy@numail.org
Subject: Kitfox-List: Kreeming a Fuel Tank
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: <brettandsandy@numail.org>
Looking for some experienced advice.
I am going to Kreem my tanks. They are clean and new and ready to go. How
much should I use and, how thick should it be and, do I put on more than one
coat. Here is my plan. Pour in one quart undiluted, slosh then drain out
excess. Just when good and tacky, pour in second quart and then drain. Wadda
ya think? Will it work better if thinned some or is two coats overkill? I
have 13 gallon tanks.
Message 19
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" <jablackwell@ev1.net>
If anyone needs the step by step procedure on how to vent the system after
an oil change let me know and I will send it to you.
I used the procedure last oil change and it is not difficult.
JImmie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912 AD
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
>
> Michael,
>
> The only time I saw the word Venting in a service bulletin it referred to
a
> procedure to remove air in the oil system after oil change. In my opinion
> the word "venting" is a poor translation from the German of what the
> bulletin actually recommends.
>
> Essentially what it recommends is a process whereby the system is
> pressurized at the tank to force oil under low pressure from the tank to
the
> pump and beyond so the pump will not have to suck air before the oil
> actually reaches the pump from the tank. A part of the bulletin requires
> that the prop never be counter rotated a procedure that might suck air
into
> the oil system.
>
> Rotax has found that on new engines, rebuilt engines and engines that have
> been drained of oil during oil change can sustain damage if the air is not
> purged from the oil lines before engine start. This bulletin lists a
> procedure for "venting" purging air from the system and a procedure for
> inspecting the valve train if it is felt that it may have been damaged due
> to inadequate or no "venting"
>
> Go to: http://www.rotax-owner.com/sdocs.htm
>
> Click on "Engine Serial Number" This gives you the opportunity of
checking
> all bulletins affecting you own engine.
>
> Select your engine model and then type in your serial number and click on
> "Search". All bulletins specific to your engine should come up. The
> bulletin number is: SB-912-036 dated 8/2002
>
> Lowell
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gunn, Michael (Space Technology)" <michael.gunn@ngc.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kitfox-List: 912 AD
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gunn, Michael (Space Technology)"
> <michael.gunn@ngc.com>
> >
> > For those who have the 912 or 912S...
> > The AD I just received from the FAA in the mail directs me to vent my
oil
> system. If I already have a vent from the top of the sump tank, is that
> acceptable?
> > I have 160 hours on my engine.
>
>
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