Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:41 AM - Re: Kreeming a Fuel Tank (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
2. 02:56 AM - Kreeming a fuel tank (Fox5flyer)
3. 03:26 AM - N24ZM ferry trip (Fox5flyer)
4. 04:31 AM - Re: Kreeming a Fuel Tank (Brett Walmsley)
5. 04:39 AM - Re: Kreeming a Fuel Tank (Brett Walmsley)
6. 04:41 AM - Re: Kreeming a fuel tank (Brett Walmsley)
7. 04:52 AM - The list WAS: Kreeming a Fuel Tank (Michel Verheughe)
8. 05:04 AM - Re: Kreeming a fuel tank (Jerry Deckard)
9. 05:17 AM - Re: N24ZM ferry trip (Jose M. Toro)
10. 05:38 AM - Re: N24ZM ferry trip (Fox5flyer)
11. 06:02 AM - Re: Kreeming a Fuel Tank (Glenn Horne)
12. 06:10 AM - Re: Kreeming a Fuel Tank (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
13. 06:11 AM - SV: Kreeming a fuel tank (Michel Verheughe)
14. 06:32 AM - Re: Kreeming a Fuel Tank (Lynn Matteson)
15. 06:33 AM - Re: Kreeming a Fuel Tank (Steve Zakreski)
16. 06:44 AM - 582 Rotax (Dee Young)
17. 06:47 AM - Re: Kreeming a Fuel Tank (Steve Zakreski)
18. 08:00 AM - Re: 582 Rotax (Bob Robertson)
19. 08:04 AM - motor oil Re: 582 Rotax (Harris, Robert)
20. 08:50 AM - Re: motor oil Re: 582 Rotax (Gary Algate)
21. 09:08 AM - Re: motor oil 582 Rotax (Fred Weaver)
22. 09:25 AM - Trip across the Rockies (Victor W. Jacko)
23. 10:24 AM - Re: Trip across the Rockies (Clifford Begnaud)
24. 10:35 AM - Re: 912 AD (paul wilson)
25. 10:35 AM - Re: Kreeming a fuel tank (paul wilson)
26. 10:35 AM - Re: Kreeming a Fuel Tank (paul wilson)
27. 10:49 AM - Re: Trip across the Rockies (jdmcbean)
28. 11:06 AM - Re: Trip across the Rockies (Victor W. Jacko)
29. 11:50 AM - Re: Kreeming a Fuel Tank (Fox5flyer)
30. 01:48 PM - Re: Kreeming a Fuel Tank (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
31. 02:44 PM - AIR960 radio (Rex & Jan Shaw)
32. 02:57 PM - Re: Trip across the Rockies (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
33. 03:26 PM - Re: 582 Rotax (Clem Nichols)
34. 03:47 PM - Re: motor oil Re: 582 Rotax (dwight purdy)
35. 04:01 PM - Re: 582 Rotax (Bob Robertson)
36. 04:23 PM - Re: 582 Rotax (Jerry Liles)
37. 04:49 PM - Re: 582 Rotax (customtrans@qwest.net)
38. 05:18 PM - Re: [Off-topic] Cajun WAS: Bungies (Jerry Liles)
39. 06:26 PM - Re: 582 Rotax (Steve Zakreski)
40. 06:33 PM - Great Aviation Website (Steve Zakreski)
41. 06:59 PM - Re: 582 Rotax (Fred Weaver)
42. 07:18 PM - Re: Kreeming a Fuel Tank (cjswa)
43. 07:56 PM - Re: Kreeming a fuel tank (Rick)
44. 08:53 PM - Re: Kreeming a Fuel Tank (Lowell Fitt)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Kreeming a Fuel Tank |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 1/20/05 5:00:03 PM Pacific Standard Time,
brettandsandy@numail.org writes:
<< Looking for some experienced advice.
I am going to Kreem my tanks. They are clean and new and ready to go. How
much should I use and, how thick should it be and, do I put on more than one
coat. Here is my plan. Pour in one quart undiluted, slosh then drain out
excess. Just when good and tacky, pour in second quart and then drain. Wadda
ya think? Will it work better if thinned some or is two coats overkill? I
have 13 gallon tanks.
>>
Kreeme cracking and fouling the fuel system has been a major topic of
discussion on this list for 8-9 years. At least one plane has made an emergency
landing due to this. Countless others have had to remove the stuff when it
was discovered cracking. My tanks were Kreemed from the factory and found
cracked just before I put on the fabric. Getting it out was a mess.
The Kreeme in my tanks was rolled/brushed or sprayed on prior to
installation of the tank top (at the tank manufacture). Sloshing of the thick
Kreeme
is near impossible due to the area size and baffle plates in the tank. You
will certainly end up with thick buildups is places.
I talked on the phone with the manufactures of Kreeme years ago. They
indicated to me that they were unaware that Skystar was using their product on
"LARGE" flat area fiberglass tanks. Their product was designed for "SMALL"
metal motorcycle size tanks. In the discussion, it was mentioned that the best
possible solution "might" be to dilute the Kreeme with 50/50 MEK. This would
allow the product to better flow in the large surface area and be able to get
through and around the baffle plates.
IMO, if the tanks don't leak, don't fix them. I would suggest filling
the tanks with gasoline and let set for a couple days to check for leaks. Plug
all the holes and put a standard non vented cap on top for the test. Put one
of the safe air valves on the end of a short piece of poly attached to the
fuel outlet. Use mouth pressure "ONLY" to pressurize the tanks through the
valve. When it releases, it will trap the pressure. Don't leave the tanks sitting
with pressure too long. The trapped gasoline/air might continue to gain
pressure to a danger point.
This has been the short version on the Kreeme history. Using Kreem in
your tanks should be considered a serious decision.
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 2
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| Subject: | Kreeming a fuel tank |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
This is a topic that has been discussed hundreds of times and goes back
about as far as I can remember, probably early 90s. Lots of information in
the archives and many opinions about what to do about it including leaving
the tank as is with no sealer at all.
A short history: The early "Denny" tanks were aluminum and because of
cracking problems Skystar changed to fiberglass units. During the
manufacture process the vendor didn't clean all the mold release out of the
inside of the tanks which left many of them with a not-so-good surface for
the Kreem to adhere to which caused it to eventually delaminate and begin to
flake off, sometimes in large chunks that was blocking the fuel feed. The
only fix was to clean the tanks and re-slosh or just leave them unsloshed.
Shining a flashlight into my tanks it was easy to see the spider webbing of
the Kreem which was an early indication of the Kreem beginning to let loose
and since my tanks hadn't been installed yet, I chose to clean and re-slosh.
Skystar was nice enough to warranty the tanks and sent me a couple qts of
Kreem for the job and the first step was to remove the old Kreem. The first
thing I noticed was that the original Kreem was sloshed quite thick just as
it came out of the can which got me to thinking that it might be better if
it were done with a thinner base. After some research I found that the
Kreem was MEK based and would make a perfect thinner so I decided to use a
50/50 ratio. Also I used MEK to clean the old slosh from the tanks using
one gallon per tank done in 1/2 gal increments. Worked great and didn't
take long. Some have used Acetone and have stated that it worked ok also,
but with plenty of ventilation (preferably outside), either will do the job.
I don't know if one is any better than the other. Once cleaned they need to
be cleaned again with detergent and lots of water with plenty of rinsing to
get really clean, then thoroughly dried. I used a vacuum cleaner hooked up
on the blower side and with all holes open just stuck the nozzle in the
filler neck and let it run for about a half hour. Worked fine.
Re-sloshing was easy. Simply plug all the holes, then mix 1 qt Kreem 50/50
with MEK and let it cover all interior surfaces. That part only takes a few
minutes. One application should do it. Let 'em dry overnight and they
should be good indefinitely.
In your case you don't have any old Kreem to remove, but you still need to
pretty much go through the entire process to ensure the tanks are clean
enough to accept the sloshing compound.
Hope this helps out a little.
Best regards,
Deke
6f in NE Michigan
From: <brettandsandy@numail.org>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Kreeming a Fuel Tank
Looking for some experienced advice.
I am going to Kreem my tanks. They are clean and new and ready to go. How
much should I use and, how thick should it be and, do I put on more than one
coat. Here is my plan. Pour in one quart undiluted, slosh then drain out
excess. Just when good and tacky, pour in second quart and then drain. Wadda
ya think? Will it work better if thinned some or is two coats overkill? I
have 13 gallon tanks.
Message 3
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| Subject: | N24ZM ferry trip |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Some have probably wondered about my ferry trip from Florida to bring
back to Michigan Dan Melnik's S5 so here's a quick update. First off, my
friend Jack Brewer and I drove eastward across Florida from Palmetto to
Melbourne on Thursday morning (13th) arriving about 0915, Dan meeting us at
the Melbourne airport. Once we got into it I realized that the hurricane
damage from flying debris inside the hangar wasn't as bad as I'd envisioned
and was limited to mostly minor cosmetic abrasions that can easily be
repaired. There's a small dent in the leading edge of one flaperon and the
rudder was cocked over to one side a bit that turned out to be bent rod ends
which were replaced. The fabric abrasions were covered with 200mph speed
tape (good enough for Nascar cowlings) and airplane was good to go.
However...
The whole temporary repair process only took about 4 hours, then a
couple hours for lunch and paperwork, and as things were winding down for a
test flight a big weather front moved in and the wind kicked up to about 22
kts with a direct crosswind from the south . Since the first leg of the
trip was to fly from Melbourne back to Palmetto (one hour west across FL
where I was staying with a friend) it didn't look like a good day to go so
Dan was nice to offer me a place to stay until the front moved through which
unfortunately kept me grounded from Thursday through Saturday with Saturday
being doable for the short trip. Although it was windy, bumpy, and low
ceilings the trip across was uneventful and the airplane flew and ran fine
with my first landing in a pretty stiff crosswind, but the airplane handled
it just fine. Weather was a little better in Palmetto, but not much.
From then on I was glued to the Weather Channel waiting for a two-day
window that never came. On Tuesday morning I finally got rational, gave it
up, and bought a commercial ticket leaving the airplane at Palmetto until we
get through this part of the north country winter. I underestimated the
frequency of the fronts moving through and with the extreme cold up north it
just wasn't worth the risk so the airplane is safe (so am I) and I'll wait a
month or so for a better time.
Deke
Message 4
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| Subject: | Kreeming a Fuel Tank |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" <kitfox4@numail.org>
Rick,
I intend to use auto gas, and my tanks were mfg. in mid '95 and Skystar
cannot verify if the new resin was used.
Thanks, Brett
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
>
> Are you going to use auto fuel? If not why do it?
>
> Rick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> brettandsandy@numail.org
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Kreeming a Fuel Tank
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: <brettandsandy@numail.org>
>
> Looking for some experienced advice.
> I am going to Kreem my tanks. They are clean and new and ready to go. How
> much should I use and, how thick should it be and, do I put on more than
> one
> coat. Here is my plan. Pour in one quart undiluted, slosh then drain out
> excess. Just when good and tacky, pour in second quart and then drain.
> Wadda
> ya think? Will it work better if thinned some or is two coats overkill? I
> have 13 gallon tanks.
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Kreeming a Fuel Tank |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" <kitfox4@numail.org>
Don thanks for the help. I need to clarify. My tanks are new as in never
installed but are 95 vintage and the Kreem was cracking and even falling
loose in HUGE pieces. It was very easy to remove with acetone. The 50/50
seems to be the way to go partially because of the resin used in 95 cannot
be verified to be fuel proof (pun intended).
Thanks again this board id great.
It's like living at an airport with a 1000 Kitfoxes on the field and
everyone just waiting to help out.
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Kreeming a fuel tank |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" <kitfox4@numail.org>
Thanks Deke,
I think I will proceed pretty much as yoiu have. I think thinner is better.
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | The list WAS: Kreeming a Fuel Tank |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
> From: Brett Walmsley [kitfox4@numail.org]
> It's like living at an airport with a 1000 Kitfoxes on the field and
> everyone just waiting to help out.
Amen, brother Brett!
Each year, I have to document for my annual that I am acquainted with all bulletins
regarding the plane and the engine. There, I write - very arrogantly : I
am on the Kitfox Builder list; you, silly inspector! :-)
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Kreeming a fuel tank |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jerry Deckard" <mustangsally@semo.net>
This place says they can make plastic tanks in any shape. They even list
experimental aircraft on their project list. No idea of the cost.
http://www.modroto.com/fueltanks.htm
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brett Walmsley" <kitfox4@numail.org>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kreeming a fuel tank
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" <kitfox4@numail.org>
>
> Thanks Deke,
> I think I will proceed pretty much as yoiu have. I think thinner is
> better.
>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: N24ZM ferry trip |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
Anybody know if Dan Melnik has a new "project" in agenda?
Fox5flyer <morid@northland.lib.mi.us> wrote:--> Kitfox-List message posted by:
"Fox5flyer"
Some have probably wondered about my ferry trip from Florida to bring
back to Michigan Dan Melnik's S5 so here's a quick update. First off, my
friend Jack Brewer and I drove eastward across Florida from Palmetto to
Melbourne on Thursday morning (13th) arriving about 0915, Dan meeting us at
the Melbourne airport. Once we got into it I realized that the hurricane
damage from flying debris inside the hangar wasn't as bad as I'd envisioned
and was limited to mostly minor cosmetic abrasions that can easily be
repaired. There's a small dent in the leading edge of one flaperon and the
rudder was cocked over to one side a bit that turned out to be bent rod ends
which were replaced. The fabric abrasions were covered with 200mph speed
tape (good enough for Nascar cowlings) and airplane was good to go.
However...
The whole temporary repair process only took about 4 hours, then a
couple hours for lunch and paperwork, and as things were winding down for a
test flight a big weather front moved in and the wind kicked up to about 22
kts with a direct crosswind from the south . Since the first leg of the
trip was to fly from Melbourne back to Palmetto (one hour west across FL
where I was staying with a friend) it didn't look like a good day to go so
Dan was nice to offer me a place to stay until the front moved through which
unfortunately kept me grounded from Thursday through Saturday with Saturday
being doable for the short trip. Although it was windy, bumpy, and low
ceilings the trip across was uneventful and the airplane flew and ran fine
with my first landing in a pretty stiff crosswind, but the airplane handled
it just fine. Weather was a little better in Palmetto, but not much.
From then on I was glued to the Weather Channel waiting for a two-day
window that never came. On Tuesday morning I finally got rational, gave it
up, and bought a commercial ticket leaving the airplane at Palmetto until we
get through this part of the north country winter. I underestimated the
frequency of the fronts moving through and with the extreme cold up north it
just wasn't worth the risk so the airplane is safe (so am I) and I'll wait a
month or so for a better time.
Deke
Jose M. Toro, P.E.
Kitfox II/582
"A slow flight in the Caribbean..."
---------------------------------
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: N24ZM ferry trip |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
He's building an F1 Rocket, similar to the Harmon Rocket.
Deke
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: N24ZM ferry trip
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
>
> Anybody know if Dan Melnik has a new "project" in agenda?
>
> Fox5flyer <morid@northland.lib.mi.us> wrote:--> Kitfox-List message posted
by: "Fox5flyer"
>
> Some have probably wondered about my ferry trip from Florida to bring
> back to Michigan Dan Melnik's S5 so here's a quick update. First off, my
> friend Jack Brewer and I drove eastward across Florida from Palmetto to
> Melbourne on Thursday morning (13th) arriving about 0915, Dan meeting us
at
> the Melbourne airport. Once we got into it I realized that the hurricane
> damage from flying debris inside the hangar wasn't as bad as I'd
envisioned
> and was limited to mostly minor cosmetic abrasions that can easily be
> repaired. There's a small dent in the leading edge of one flaperon and the
> rudder was cocked over to one side a bit that turned out to be bent rod
ends
> which were replaced. The fabric abrasions were covered with 200mph speed
> tape (good enough for Nascar cowlings) and airplane was good to go.
> However...
> The whole temporary repair process only took about 4 hours, then a
> couple hours for lunch and paperwork, and as things were winding down for
a
> test flight a big weather front moved in and the wind kicked up to about
22
> kts with a direct crosswind from the south . Since the first leg of the
> trip was to fly from Melbourne back to Palmetto (one hour west across FL
> where I was staying with a friend) it didn't look like a good day to go so
> Dan was nice to offer me a place to stay until the front moved through
which
> unfortunately kept me grounded from Thursday through Saturday with
Saturday
> being doable for the short trip. Although it was windy, bumpy, and low
> ceilings the trip across was uneventful and the airplane flew and ran fine
> with my first landing in a pretty stiff crosswind, but the airplane
handled
> it just fine. Weather was a little better in Palmetto, but not much.
> From then on I was glued to the Weather Channel waiting for a two-day
> window that never came. On Tuesday morning I finally got rational, gave it
> up, and bought a commercial ticket leaving the airplane at Palmetto until
we
> get through this part of the north country winter. I underestimated the
> frequency of the fronts moving through and with the extreme cold up north
it
> just wasn't worth the risk so the airplane is safe (so am I) and I'll wait
a
> month or so for a better time.
> Deke
>
>
> Jose M. Toro, P.E.
> Kitfox II/582
> "A slow flight in the Caribbean..."
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Kreeming a Fuel Tank |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Glenn Horne" <glennflys@verizon.net>
I had a hole in the left tank on my Model II after flushing out all the
kreem. Found some slosh material on the internet and it is great. Flush the
tank with it,let set for a couple of days filled with gas, no leak. This has
been about 4 month ago and it hasn't leaked yet. Its a clear two mixture
compound. I'm like Don, wouldn't use kreem.
Glenn Horne Model II 582
----- Original Message -----
From: <AlbertaIV@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kreeming a Fuel Tank
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 1/20/05 5:00:03 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> brettandsandy@numail.org writes:
>
> << Looking for some experienced advice.
> I am going to Kreem my tanks. They are clean and new and ready to go. How
> much should I use and, how thick should it be and, do I put on more than
> one
> coat. Here is my plan. Pour in one quart undiluted, slosh then drain out
> excess. Just when good and tacky, pour in second quart and then drain.
> Wadda
> ya think? Will it work better if thinned some or is two coats overkill? I
> have 13 gallon tanks.
> >>
> Kreeme cracking and fouling the fuel system has been a major topic of
> discussion on this list for 8-9 years. At least one plane has made an
> emergency
> landing due to this. Countless others have had to remove the stuff when
> it
> was discovered cracking. My tanks were Kreemed from the factory and found
> cracked just before I put on the fabric. Getting it out was a mess.
> The Kreeme in my tanks was rolled/brushed or sprayed on prior to
> installation of the tank top (at the tank manufacture). Sloshing of the
> thick Kreeme
> is near impossible due to the area size and baffle plates in the tank.
> You
> will certainly end up with thick buildups is places.
> I talked on the phone with the manufactures of Kreeme years ago. They
> indicated to me that they were unaware that Skystar was using their
> product on
> "LARGE" flat area fiberglass tanks. Their product was designed for
> "SMALL"
> metal motorcycle size tanks. In the discussion, it was mentioned that the
> best
> possible solution "might" be to dilute the Kreeme with 50/50 MEK. This
> would
> allow the product to better flow in the large surface area and be able to
> get
> through and around the baffle plates.
> IMO, if the tanks don't leak, don't fix them. I would suggest filling
> the tanks with gasoline and let set for a couple days to check for leaks.
> Plug
> all the holes and put a standard non vented cap on top for the test. Put
> one
> of the safe air valves on the end of a short piece of poly attached to the
> fuel outlet. Use mouth pressure "ONLY" to pressurize the tanks through
> the
> valve. When it releases, it will trap the pressure. Don't leave the
> tanks sitting
> with pressure too long. The trapped gasoline/air might continue to gain
> pressure to a danger point.
> This has been the short version on the Kreeme history. Using Kreem in
> your tanks should be considered a serious decision.
>
>
> Don Smythe
> N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Kreeming a Fuel Tank |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 1/21/05 4:40:23 AM Pacific Standard Time,
kitfox4@numail.org writes:
<<
Don thanks for the help. I need to clarify. My tanks are new as in never
installed but are 95 vintage and the Kreem was cracking and even falling
loose in HUGE pieces. It was very easy to remove with acetone. The 50/50
seems to be the way to go partially because of the resin used in 95 cannot
be verified to be fuel proof (pun intended). >>
My tanks were also mid 95 with the fuel outlet at the bottom, rear,
inboard corner. I never did quite understand the old comments that the tank resin
"MIGHT" not be fuel compatible. Was that supposed to mean that gasoline
would melt a hole in the tank if allowed to touch or, soften the glass? If that's
the case, then Kreeme isn't going to help anything. All it will take is a
pinhole area where the Kreeme doesn't cover the tank and waalaa, the gas will
eat a hole right thru. I don't believe that at all. If Kreeme were the secret
additive to protect against poor resin then I could make tanks out of
Styrofoam, coat with Kreeme and be good to go (probably not a good idea).
If I had it to do all over again, and my tanks weren't installed, I'd
"investigate" the possibility of removing the tank tops and permanently sealing
the interiors (talk to a professional epoxy company). While inside, I'd fix
the fiberglass around the baffles, put in recessed filler caps, add external
vents and do something about the saf air fitting. Once you've done all that, you
have tanks that will leave no doubt of their integrity.
IMHO
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 13
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| Subject: | Kreeming a fuel tank |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
> From: Jerry Deckard [mustangsally@semo.net]
> This place says they can make plastic tanks in any shape. They even list
> experimental aircraft on their project list. No idea of the cost.
> http://www.modroto.com/fueltanks.htm
Funny, I was just thinking about that technique, Jerry. Many years ago, with my
friend, we designed rowing boats to be produced in thermo-plastic (Polyetylen)
that is then moulded in a rotary form as the plastic melts. It is extremely
resistant although I don't know how it likes engine fuel. It was, at the time,
much used as fisherman's crates. It is still flexible, even at very low temperature.
Torgeir certainly knows what I am talking about. Here is the link to the
Pioner boats:
http://www.baat.aller.no/reklame/pioner.html
One drawback could be that it is more heavy than say, a fiberglass construction.
One thing that would be expensive, is to make the aluminium mould needed for
the production. Once that is done, the tanks could be produced at a high rate.
But the question remains: How to pay for the making of the mould with only a
limited number of tanks to sell?
Cheers,
Michel
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Kreeming a Fuel Tank |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
I went into the archives to read all the pros and cons of this subject,
then called Skystar.
The procedure as told to me by Frank Miller just last week: remove
fittings and plug the openings. Use acetone to dissolve the old Kreem,
using 1 gallon at a time, slosh tank and dump acetone...repeat until
acetone is clear. Dry tank. Do not use the prepping agent. The tank
will use about 1/2 quart of Kreem during each application, but use a
quart to insure coverage. Do this 3 times.
I had told him that my tanks have never had anything in them, were 11
years old, I'm the 4th owner of the yet unfinished plane, etc, etc.,
and he said that the tanks need re-Kreeming after about 10 yrs.
Now this is the procedure as I hurriedly wrote it down, so I might have
incorrectly reported it as written here...don't blame me. : )
I also talked to the Kreem factory and they said that a 20 gal. tank
will use about 1 qt, but I didn't get into the specifics of how to
apply, thinking that the directions that come with the product will
discuss that. No mention was made by either of these two contacts (SS
or Kreem) of thinning the Kreem.
I've got one tank cleaned and waiting, and another will get cleaned
shortly. I'll probably wait a week or so to insure dryness before
installing the Kreem,..hope I'm doing the right thing...
Lynn
On Thursday, January 20, 2005, at 07:58 PM, <brettandsandy@numail.org>
wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: <brettandsandy@numail.org>
>
> Looking for some experienced advice.
> I am going to Kreem my tanks. They are clean and new and ready to go.
> How
> much should I use and, how thick should it be and, do I put on more
> than one
> coat. Here is my plan. Pour in one quart undiluted, slosh then drain
> out
> excess. Just when good and tacky, pour in second quart and then drain.
> Wadda
> ya think? Will it work better if thinned some or is two coats
> overkill? I
> have 13 gallon tanks.
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Kreeming a Fuel Tank |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski <szakreski@shaw.ca>
I first used Kreem full strength, but it was too thick (like honey) and
dried before I could make it flow into all the cavities. It dries very fast.
I removed it with MEK, and redid it with 50% diluted MEK/Kreem. Second time
worked perfect with no sign of failure after 6 years using both auto and
100LL.
SteveZ
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
brettandsandy@numail.org
Subject: Kitfox-List: Kreeming a Fuel Tank
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: <brettandsandy@numail.org>
Looking for some experienced advice.
I am going to Kreem my tanks. They are clean and new and ready to go. How
much should I use and, how thick should it be and, do I put on more than one
coat. Here is my plan. Pour in one quart undiluted, slosh then drain out
excess. Just when good and tacky, pour in second quart and then drain. Wadda
ya think? Will it work better if thinned some or is two coats overkill? I
have 13 gallon tanks.
Message 16
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
Need some thoughts from the list. Please don't be afraid to speak up here.
Have a friend who flys a 582. He has only a manual starter and is for ever
wearing him self out trying to start it. His plugs foul all the time. He
uses regular 30w automobile oil in his injection system and says its just as
good as the 2 stroke oil which I don't agree but then. Any ideas
here???????? and your thoughts on the oil??????
Thanks
Dee Young
Model II
KFM 112 not 582
Do Not Archive.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Kreeming a Fuel Tank |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski <szakreski@shaw.ca>
By the way, if you use a bright light, you can see the Kreem flowing around
inside the tank right through the fiberglass as you spread it around.
SteveZ
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lynn
Matteson
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kreeming a Fuel Tank
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
I went into the archives to read all the pros and cons of this subject,
then called Skystar.
The procedure as told to me by Frank Miller just last week: remove
fittings and plug the openings. Use acetone to dissolve the old Kreem,
using 1 gallon at a time, slosh tank and dump acetone...repeat until
acetone is clear. Dry tank. Do not use the prepping agent. The tank
will use about 1/2 quart of Kreem during each application, but use a
quart to insure coverage. Do this 3 times.
I had told him that my tanks have never had anything in them, were 11
years old, I'm the 4th owner of the yet unfinished plane, etc, etc.,
and he said that the tanks need re-Kreeming after about 10 yrs.
Now this is the procedure as I hurriedly wrote it down, so I might have
incorrectly reported it as written here...don't blame me. : )
I also talked to the Kreem factory and they said that a 20 gal. tank
will use about 1 qt, but I didn't get into the specifics of how to
apply, thinking that the directions that come with the product will
discuss that. No mention was made by either of these two contacts (SS
or Kreem) of thinning the Kreem.
I've got one tank cleaned and waiting, and another will get cleaned
shortly. I'll probably wait a week or so to insure dryness before
installing the Kreem,..hope I'm doing the right thing...
Lynn
On Thursday, January 20, 2005, at 07:58 PM, <brettandsandy@numail.org>
wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: <brettandsandy@numail.org>
>
> Looking for some experienced advice.
> I am going to Kreem my tanks. They are clean and new and ready to go.
> How
> much should I use and, how thick should it be and, do I put on more
> than one
> coat. Here is my plan. Pour in one quart undiluted, slosh then drain
> out
> excess. Just when good and tacky, pour in second quart and then drain.
> Wadda
> ya think? Will it work better if thinned some or is two coats
> overkill? I
> have 13 gallon tanks.
>
>
Message 18
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Robertson" <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
Hi Dee,
Your friend is the type of person who keeps me in business. The only 582
lubrication failures I have seen in the last 10 years are resultant of
either forgetting to add oil to the tank or the use of incorrect oil.
Automotive oil is not designed to work at the temperatures we subject our
oils too. When automotive oils burn they leave massive deposits of carbon.
Your friend will be experiencing excessive piston wear in addition to
excessive carbon build up. Automotive oils fail to lubricate at high
temperatures.
Rotax, and every other two stroke manufacturer for that matter, don't
suggest the use of special oils just for the sake of making the users life
difficult.. We know that automotive oils are less expensive and easier to
obtain. If they worked satisfactorily we would be using them...plain and
simple....
High performance two stroke engines are sensitive to the type of oils
used. Even the improper selection of two stroke oil can be harmful.
Mixing mineral and synthetic oils can cause clumping (gelling) of the
oil. The use of an outboard motor two stoke oil can cause excessive
carboning resulting in piston rings seizing to the pistons. So, if the
improper selection of two stroke oils can be disasterous, just think how
much damage you could do with automotive oil.
It's your buddies butt up there...Some people don't quite think problems
through to the end. Hopefully, you get enough feedback from your post to
hand to him. I know I would not fly with him until the engine was torn down
and having at least the top end decarboned.
regards and good luck in convincing your friend
Bob Robertson
Light Engine Services Ltd.
Rotax Service Center
St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
www.rtx-av-engines.ca
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 Rotax
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
>
> Need some thoughts from the list. Please don't be afraid to speak up here.
> Have a friend who flys a 582. He has only a manual starter and is for ever
> wearing him self out trying to start it. His plugs foul all the time. He
> uses regular 30w automobile oil in his injection system and says its just
as
> good as the 2 stroke oil which I don't agree but then. Any ideas
> here???????? and your thoughts on the oil??????
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Dee Young
> Model II
> KFM 112 not 582
>
>
> Do Not Archive.
>
>
Message 19
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
It's too bad the engine starts at all because he shouldn't be using motor
oil in substitute for two stroke oil.
RPM's are not getting high enough to produce a spark and then the engine
floods. The poor oil choice will also foul the plugs and make it harder to
get a good spark. A bare minimum for the oil should be two stroke oil
designed for oil injection systems.
Robert
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dee Young
Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 Rotax
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
Need some thoughts from the list. Please don't be afraid to speak up here.
Have a friend who flys a 582. He has only a manual starter and is for ever
wearing him self out trying to start it. His plugs foul all the time. He
uses regular 30w automobile oil in his injection system and says its just as
good as the 2 stroke oil which I don't agree but then. Any ideas
here???????? and your thoughts on the oil??????
Thanks
Dee Young
Model II
KFM 112 not 582
Do Not Archive.
Message 20
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
I'm amazed it even runs using motor oil as a substitute for 2 stroke oil.
I think you have identified his problem
GaryA
Lite2/582
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:own
er-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Harris, Robert
Subject: motor oil RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Rotax
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert"
<Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
It's too bad the engine starts at all because he shouldn't be using motor
oil in substitute for two stroke oil.
RPM's are not getting high enough to produce a spark and then the engine
floods. The poor oil choice will also foul the plugs and make it harder to
get a good spark. A bare minimum for the oil should be two stroke oil
designed for oil injection systems.
Robert
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dee Young
Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 Rotax
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
Need some thoughts from the list. Please don't be afraid to speak up here.
Have a friend who flys a 582. He has only a manual starter and is for ever
wearing him self out trying to start it. His plugs foul all the time. He
uses regular 30w automobile oil in his injection system and says its just as
good as the 2 stroke oil which I don't agree but then. Any ideas
here???????? and your thoughts on the oil??????
Thanks
Dee Young
Model II
KFM 112 not 582
Do Not Archive.
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | Re: motor oil 582 Rotax |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver" <Mytyweav@earthlink.net>
You know Gary, people have done this for many years.......and gotten away
with it for awhile. I too used 30W in a Yamaha with oil injection. It worked
somewhat ok but I fouled plugs whenever I was bucking a headwind and had to
add more throttle to maintain a cruise speed. When I added throttle, it also
increased the stroke of the oil pump. This combination didn't work out good
at all... Under a load like that, it got a little warmer but almost always
fouled one of the plugs. After changing to a GOOD 2 cycle oil (blended for
the oil injection) the fouled plug scenario went away for good. BTW, I also
had some fairly carboned up Heads as well as the piston/ring assembly.
Using the straight 30W was handed down to me from my father who was an avid
outboard boat enthusiast. I always thought he was right on but after a
couple of years, I got it straightened out in my head and had no more
problems. I can't imagine running a good 582 into the ground just because
someone is using the incorrect oil. I think you could run spreadsheets a lot
of different ways and it just won't pencil out......It's not economically
reasonable.
Weav
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
Subject: RE: motor oil RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Rotax
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
>
> I'm amazed it even runs using motor oil as a substitute for 2 stroke oil.
>
> I think you have identified his problem
>
> GaryA
> Lite2/582
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:own
> er-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Harris, Robert
> To: 'kitfox-list@matronics.com'
> Subject: motor oil RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Rotax
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert"
> <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
>
> It's too bad the engine starts at all because he shouldn't be using motor
> oil in substitute for two stroke oil.
>
> RPM's are not getting high enough to produce a spark and then the engine
> floods. The poor oil choice will also foul the plugs and make it harder to
> get a good spark. A bare minimum for the oil should be two stroke oil
> designed for oil injection systems.
>
> Robert
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dee Young
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 Rotax
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
>
> Need some thoughts from the list. Please don't be afraid to speak up here.
> Have a friend who flys a 582. He has only a manual starter and is for ever
> wearing him self out trying to start it. His plugs foul all the time. He
> uses regular 30w automobile oil in his injection system and says its just
as
>
> good as the 2 stroke oil which I don't agree but then. Any ideas
> here???????? and your thoughts on the oil??????
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Dee Young
> Model II
> KFM 112 not 582
>
>
> Do Not Archive.
>
>
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Trip across the Rockies |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Victor W. Jacko" <vicwj@earthlink.net>
Hi List, I am back and would like some advice for a cross country to
Skystar headquarters in ID. The route will be from Roswell, NM then NW
toward Albuquerque then on. I would like to know the best (read safest)
route over the mountains during the winter months.
I would also like to know of some good airports to stop at in line with
the suggested route.
Yhanks,
Vic
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Weaver
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: motor oil 582 Rotax
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver"
<Mytyweav@earthlink.net>
You know Gary, people have done this for many years.......and gotten
away
with it for awhile. I too used 30W in a Yamaha with oil injection. It
worked
somewhat ok but I fouled plugs whenever I was bucking a headwind and had
to
add more throttle to maintain a cruise speed. When I added throttle, it
also
increased the stroke of the oil pump. This combination didn't work out
good
at all... Under a load like that, it got a little warmer but almost
always
fouled one of the plugs. After changing to a GOOD 2 cycle oil (blended
for
the oil injection) the fouled plug scenario went away for good. BTW, I
also
had some fairly carboned up Heads as well as the piston/ring assembly.
Using the straight 30W was handed down to me from my father who was an
avid
outboard boat enthusiast. I always thought he was right on but after a
couple of years, I got it straightened out in my head and had no more
problems. I can't imagine running a good 582 into the ground just
because
someone is using the incorrect oil. I think you could run spreadsheets a
lot
of different ways and it just won't pencil out......It's not
economically
reasonable.
Weav
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
Subject: RE: motor oil RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Rotax
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate"
<algate@attglobal.net>
>
> I'm amazed it even runs using motor oil as a substitute for 2 stroke
oil.
>
> I think you have identified his problem
>
> GaryA
> Lite2/582
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:own
> er-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Harris, Robert
> To: 'kitfox-list@matronics.com'
> Subject: motor oil RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Rotax
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert"
> <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
>
> It's too bad the engine starts at all because he shouldn't be using
motor
> oil in substitute for two stroke oil.
>
> RPM's are not getting high enough to produce a spark and then the
engine
> floods. The poor oil choice will also foul the plugs and make it
harder to
> get a good spark. A bare minimum for the oil should be two stroke oil
> designed for oil injection systems.
>
> Robert
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dee Young
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 Rotax
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
>
> Need some thoughts from the list. Please don't be afraid to speak up
here.
> Have a friend who flys a 582. He has only a manual starter and is for
ever
> wearing him self out trying to start it. His plugs foul all the time.
He
> uses regular 30w automobile oil in his injection system and says its
just
as
>
> good as the 2 stroke oil which I don't agree but then. Any ideas
> here???????? and your thoughts on the oil??????
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Dee Young
> Model II
> KFM 112 not 582
>
>
> Do Not Archive.
>
>
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: Trip across the Rockies |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
Vic,
From just north of Albuquerque go west to AZ. I would suggest flying the vfr
corridor over the grand canyon then lake powell then work your way up to
Caldwell. This is a fabulously beautiful route. You will love it.
Cliff
>
> Hi List, I am back and would like some advice for a cross country to
> Skystar headquarters in ID. The route will be from Roswell, NM then NW
> toward Albuquerque then on. I would like to know the best (read safest)
> route over the mountains during the winter months.
>
> I would also like to know of some good airports to stop at in line with
> the suggested route.
>
> Yhanks,
>
> Vic
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Weaver
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: motor oil 582 Rotax
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver"
> <Mytyweav@earthlink.net>
>
> You know Gary, people have done this for many years.......and gotten
> away
> with it for awhile. I too used 30W in a Yamaha with oil injection. It
> worked
> somewhat ok but I fouled plugs whenever I was bucking a headwind and had
> to
> add more throttle to maintain a cruise speed. When I added throttle, it
> also
> increased the stroke of the oil pump. This combination didn't work out
> good
> at all... Under a load like that, it got a little warmer but almost
> always
> fouled one of the plugs. After changing to a GOOD 2 cycle oil (blended
> for
> the oil injection) the fouled plug scenario went away for good. BTW, I
> also
> had some fairly carboned up Heads as well as the piston/ring assembly.
>
> Using the straight 30W was handed down to me from my father who was an
> avid
> outboard boat enthusiast. I always thought he was right on but after a
> couple of years, I got it straightened out in my head and had no more
> problems. I can't imagine running a good 582 into the ground just
> because
> someone is using the incorrect oil. I think you could run spreadsheets a
> lot
> of different ways and it just won't pencil out......It's not
> economically
> reasonable.
> Weav
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: motor oil RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Rotax
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate"
> <algate@attglobal.net>
>>
>> I'm amazed it even runs using motor oil as a substitute for 2 stroke
> oil.
>>
>> I think you have identified his problem
>>
>> GaryA
>> Lite2/582
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:own
>> er-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Harris, Robert
>> To: 'kitfox-list@matronics.com'
>> Subject: motor oil RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Rotax
>>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert"
>> <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
>>
>> It's too bad the engine starts at all because he shouldn't be using
> motor
>> oil in substitute for two stroke oil.
>>
>> RPM's are not getting high enough to produce a spark and then the
> engine
>> floods. The poor oil choice will also foul the plugs and make it
> harder to
>> get a good spark. A bare minimum for the oil should be two stroke oil
>> designed for oil injection systems.
>>
>> Robert
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dee Young
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 Rotax
>>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
>>
>> Need some thoughts from the list. Please don't be afraid to speak up
> here.
>> Have a friend who flys a 582. He has only a manual starter and is for
> ever
>> wearing him self out trying to start it. His plugs foul all the time.
> He
>> uses regular 30w automobile oil in his injection system and says its
> just
> as
>>
>> good as the 2 stroke oil which I don't agree but then. Any ideas
>> here???????? and your thoughts on the oil??????
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>> Dee Young
>> Model II
>> KFM 112 not 582
>>
>>
>> Do Not Archive.
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 24
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: paul wilson <pwilson@climber.org>
Lowell is correct. But it is interesting that it has come to light at this
late date. The details for "venting" are specified as Lowell says which
refers one to Service Instruction SI-04-1997 R3 and it was published and
distributed to owners in September 2002.The original version Rev 0 was
published and distributed January 1999.
The SI details apparently are presented for the DIY guys who did not think
thru the consequences of removing the oil from the pump and leaving a air
lock in the pump feed line. The incorrect method of oil changes is
suspected as being a leading cause of rocker arm galling due to startup
with no oil in the lube system downstream of the pump. Probably other
damage to lubricated parts occurs when operating the engine with no oil
pressure.
BTW, for owners not on the Rotax distribution mailing but want to see
applicable bulletins and other instructions and tips, be wary of just using
your engine serial number to collect the documents. It is best to read them
all and decide which ones apply. Lots of them are written for certified
engines but do apply to the UL version. I just collect them all and pitch
the ones that do not apply.
Paul
==============
At 06:31 PM 1/20/05 -0800, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
>
>Michael,
>
>The only time I saw the word Venting in a service bulletin it referred to a
>procedure to remove air in the oil system after oil change. In my opinion
>the word "venting" is a poor translation from the German of what the
>bulletin actually recommends.
>
>Essentially what it recommends is a process whereby the system is
>pressurized at the tank to force oil under low pressure from the tank to the
>pump and beyond so the pump will not have to suck air before the oil
>actually reaches the pump from the tank. A part of the bulletin requires
>that the prop never be counter rotated a procedure that might suck air into
>the oil system.
>
>Rotax has found that on new engines, rebuilt engines and engines that have
>been drained of oil during oil change can sustain damage if the air is not
>purged from the oil lines before engine start. This bulletin lists a
>procedure for "venting" purging air from the system and a procedure for
>inspecting the valve train if it is felt that it may have been damaged due
>to inadequate or no "venting"
>
>Go to: http://www.rotax-owner.com/sdocs.htm
>
>Click on "Engine Serial Number" This gives you the opportunity of checking
>all bulletins affecting you own engine.
>
>Select your engine model and then type in your serial number and click on
>"Search". All bulletins specific to your engine should come up. The
>bulletin number is: SB-912-036 dated 8/2002
>
>Lowell
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Gunn, Michael (Space Technology)" <michael.gunn@ngc.com>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Kitfox-List: 912 AD
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gunn, Michael (Space Technology)"
><michael.gunn@ngc.com>
> >
> > For those who have the 912 or 912S...
> > The AD I just received from the FAA in the mail directs me to vent my oil
>system. If I already have a vent from the top of the sump tank, is that
>acceptable?
> > I have 160 hours on my engine.
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Kreeming a fuel tank |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: paul wilson <pwilson@climber.org>
Skystar has plastic tanks in work Dont know the status.
Paul
=========
At 07:03 AM 1/21/05 -0600, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jerry Deckard" <mustangsally@semo.net>
>
>This place says they can make plastic tanks in any shape. They even list
>experimental aircraft on their project list. No idea of the cost.
>http://www.modroto.com/fueltanks.htm
>Jerry
Message 26
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| Subject: | Kreeming a Fuel Tank |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: paul wilson <pwilson@climber.org>
Answer: Because the tanks will leak thru the pin holes the coating is
supposed to seal. The newer tanks probably do not need the coating since
they are less prone to leak. Tanks that use Aflac (spelling??) resin are
compatible with auto gas. Call Skystar to see which tank you have. '95
vintage are the old resin
Paul
===============
At 07:09 PM 1/20/05 -0800, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
>
>Are you going to use auto fuel? If not why do it?
>
>Rick
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
>brettandsandy@numail.org
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Kreeming a Fuel Tank
>
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: <brettandsandy@numail.org>
>
>Looking for some experienced advice.
>I am going to Kreem my tanks. They are clean and new and ready to go. How
>much should I use and, how thick should it be and, do I put on more than one
>coat. Here is my plan. Pour in one quart undiluted, slosh then drain out
>excess. Just when good and tacky, pour in second quart and then drain. Wadda
>ya think? Will it work better if thinned some or is two coats overkill? I
>have 13 gallon tanks.
Message 27
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| Subject: | Trip across the Rockies |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Vic,
Would love to visit with you when you get here. Give a shout.
There are a couple of ways to get here. What will you be flying ?
Obviously the winter months and mountains can be dangerous.
ROUTE 1: If weather permits.. you can come through Farmington NM (4
corners) KFMN up between the mountains to Price KPCU through Spanish Fork
pass (stay over the highway and railroad tracks) into Provo KPVU. North over
interstate 15 through Salt Lake to Brigham City KBGM then follow interstate
84 through Burley KBYL and then west bound to Boise KBOI and Caldwell KEUL.
ROUTE 2: Head west bound towards Mesquite NV 67L.. You can fly the Grand
Canyon.. check the VFR routes. Then head North towards Lincoln County 1L1
You enter the Desert MOA.. Give Nellis control a radio call... they are easy
and great to work with. then towards Mormon Mesa VOR then Ely NV KELY. If
you follow the highway 93 from Morman Mesa VOR it cuts across the low point
of the ridge to get into ELY. From ELY head north to Wells, NV KLWL then to
Jackpot, NV 06U then Buhl, ID U03 then Glenns Ferry, ID U89 then towards
Boise and Caldwell.
I have flown these routes several times.. and will again later this year.
If it is clear then Route 1: can be spectacular.. If you have the time...
see Canyon Lands. But check for Pilot reports or even call ahead to Provo..
It could be clear on both sides but not the pass.. Or clear on the east side
but not in Provo.
Fly Safe !!
Blue Skies
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Victor W. Jacko
Subject: Kitfox-List: Trip across the Rockies
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Victor W. Jacko" <vicwj@earthlink.net>
Hi List, I am back and would like some advice for a cross country to
Skystar headquarters in ID. The route will be from Roswell, NM then NW
toward Albuquerque then on. I would like to know the best (read safest)
route over the mountains during the winter months.
I would also like to know of some good airports to stop at in line with
the suggested route.
Yhanks,
Vic
Message 28
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| Subject: | Trip across the Rockies |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Victor W. Jacko" <vicwj@earthlink.net>
Thanks Cliff and John. I think the route over the Grand Canyon then
heading West towards Nevada will work. I need to spend some time with my
charts to feel good about it.
Any impute from others would be very helpful also.
Vic
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jdmcbean
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Trip across the Rockies
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Vic,
Would love to visit with you when you get here. Give a shout.
There are a couple of ways to get here. What will you be flying ?
Obviously the winter months and mountains can be dangerous.
ROUTE 1: If weather permits.. you can come through Farmington NM (4
corners) KFMN up between the mountains to Price KPCU through Spanish
Fork
pass (stay over the highway and railroad tracks) into Provo KPVU. North
over
interstate 15 through Salt Lake to Brigham City KBGM then follow
interstate
84 through Burley KBYL and then west bound to Boise KBOI and Caldwell
KEUL.
ROUTE 2: Head west bound towards Mesquite NV 67L.. You can fly the
Grand
Canyon.. check the VFR routes. Then head North towards Lincoln County
1L1
You enter the Desert MOA.. Give Nellis control a radio call... they are
easy
and great to work with. then towards Mormon Mesa VOR then Ely NV KELY.
If
you follow the highway 93 from Morman Mesa VOR it cuts across the low
point
of the ridge to get into ELY. From ELY head north to Wells, NV KLWL
then to
Jackpot, NV 06U then Buhl, ID U03 then Glenns Ferry, ID U89 then
towards
Boise and Caldwell.
I have flown these routes several times.. and will again later this
year.
If it is clear then Route 1: can be spectacular.. If you have the
time...
see Canyon Lands. But check for Pilot reports or even call ahead to
Provo..
It could be clear on both sides but not the pass.. Or clear on the east
side
but not in Provo.
Fly Safe !!
Blue Skies
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Victor W.
Jacko
Subject: Kitfox-List: Trip across the Rockies
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Victor W. Jacko"
<vicwj@earthlink.net>
Hi List, I am back and would like some advice for a cross country to
Skystar headquarters in ID. The route will be from Roswell, NM then NW
toward Albuquerque then on. I would like to know the best (read safest)
route over the mountains during the winter months.
I would also like to know of some good airports to stop at in line with
the suggested route.
Yhanks,
Vic
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Kreeming a Fuel Tank |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
If I may add just a bit to this, the Kreem isn't used because of fuel types
nor is it affected by them. The problem is with the fiberglass fibers that
can wick fuel through the resins which creates a weepy-seepy-stinky tank and
smells up the cockpit. Kreem simply seals up the fibers. Not all tanks
have this problem, but many have.
Using it 50/50 creates a better slosh and seals the fibers nicely.
The choice is with the builder.
Deke
>
> Answer: Because the tanks will leak thru the pin holes the coating is
> supposed to seal. The newer tanks probably do not need the coating since
> they are less prone to leak. Tanks that use Aflac (spelling??) resin are
> compatible with auto gas. Call Skystar to see which tank you have. '95
> vintage are the old resin
> Paul
> ===============
>
> At 07:09 PM 1/20/05 -0800, you wrote:
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
> >
> >Are you going to use auto fuel? If not why do it?
> >
> >Rick
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> >[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> >brettandsandy@numail.org
> >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: Kitfox-List: Kreeming a Fuel Tank
> >
> >
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: <brettandsandy@numail.org>
> >
> >Looking for some experienced advice.
> >I am going to Kreem my tanks. They are clean and new and ready to go. How
> >much should I use and, how thick should it be and, do I put on more than
one
> >coat. Here is my plan. Pour in one quart undiluted, slosh then drain out
> >excess. Just when good and tacky, pour in second quart and then drain.
Wadda
> >ya think? Will it work better if thinned some or is two coats overkill? I
> >have 13 gallon tanks.
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Kreeming a Fuel Tank |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 1/21/05 10:36:34 AM Pacific Standard Time,
pwilson@climber.org writes:
<< compatible with auto gas. Call Skystar to see which tank you have. '95
vintage are the old resin
Paul
=============== >>
Paul,
Exactly what is going to happen to a 95 vintage tank (old resin) that is
uncoated with Kreeme or other coatings. There are many flying out there.
Mine is mid 95 but, was cut open and coated with a very thin layer of West Epoxy.
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 31
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
Rex,
I have one panel mounted with a fixed antenna. I had to move the
antenna lead cable to get rid of some noise to mine. Otherwise it
works fine so far. The address and phone number have changed since I
purchased mine in 2000 in the states. And when I spoke with them a few
months ago they were no longer selling the units here due to problems at
the factory. Norm
Thanks for that info Norm. We have also contacted the factory but got no
reply.
Rex.
rexjan@bigpond.com
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Trip across the Rockies |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
From Page(Grand Canyon) you can pretty much follow I-15 north to Brigham City,
UT (KBMC), then I-84 northwest to Caldwell. No serious heights and population
all along the way. If you come through Logan(KLGU), I'll buy you lunch and help
you haul mogas.
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud"
>
>
>
> Vic,
> From just north of Albuquerque go west to AZ. I would suggest flying the vfr
> corridor over the grand canyon then lake powell then work your way up to
> Caldwell. This is a fabulously beautiful route. You will love it.
> Cliff
>
> >
> > Hi List, I am back and would like some advice for a cross country to
> > Skystar headquarters in ID. The route will be from Roswell, NM then NW
> > toward Albuquerque then on. I would like to know the best (read safest)
> > route over the mountains during the winter months.
> >
> > I would also like to know of some good airports to stop at in line with
> > the suggested route.
> >
> > Yhanks,
> >
> > Vic
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Weaver
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: motor oil 582 Rotax
> >
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver"
> >
> >
> > You know Gary, people have done this for many years.......and gotten
> > away
> > with it for awhile. I too used 30W in a Yamaha with oil injection. It
> > worked
> > somewhat ok but I fouled plugs whenever I was bucking a headwind and had
> > to
> > add more throttle to maintain a cruise speed. When I added throttle, it
> > also
> > increased the stroke of the oil pump. This combination didn't work out
> > good
> > at all... Under a load like that, it got a little warmer but almost
> > always
> > fouled one of the plugs. After changing to a GOOD 2 cycle oil (blended
> > for
> > the oil injection) the fouled plug scenario went away for good. BTW, I
> > also
> > had some fairly carboned up Heads as well as the piston/ring assembly.
> >
> > Using the straight 30W was handed down to me from my father who was an
> > avid
> > outboard boat enthusiast. I always thought he was right on but after a
> > couple of years, I got it straightened out in my head and had no more
> > problems. I can't imagine running a good 582 into the ground just
> > because
> > someone is using the incorrect oil. I think you could run spreadsheets a
> > lot
> > of different ways and it just won't pencil out......It's not
> > economically
> > reasonable.
> > Weav
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Gary Algate"
> > To:
> > Subject: RE: motor oil RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Rotax
> >
> >
> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate"
> >
> >>
> >> I'm amazed it even runs using motor oil as a substitute for 2 stroke
> > oil.
> >>
> >> I think you have identified his problem
> >>
> >> GaryA
> >> Lite2/582
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:own
> >> er-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Harris, Robert
> >> To: 'kitfox-list@matronics.com'
> >> Subject: motor oil RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Rotax
> >>
> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert"
> >>
> >>
> >> It's too bad the engine starts at all because he shouldn't be using
> > motor
> >> oil in substitute for two stroke oil.
> >>
> >> RPM's are not getting high enough to produce a spark and then the
> > engine
> >> floods. The poor oil choice will also foul the plugs and make it
> > harder to
> >> get a good spark. A bare minimum for the oil should be two stroke oil
> >> designed for oil injection systems.
> >>
> >> Robert
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> >> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dee Young
> >> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> >> Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 Rotax
> >>
> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young"
> >>
> >> Need some thoughts from the list. Please don't be afraid to speak up
> > here.
> >> Have a friend who flys a 582. He has only a manual starter and is for
> > ever
> >> wearing him self out trying to start it. His plugs foul all the time.
> > He
> >> uses regular 30w automobile oil in his injection system and says its
> > just
> > as
> >>
> >> good as the 2 stroke oil which I don't agree but then. Any ideas
> >> here???????? and your thoughts on the oil??????
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >>
> >> Dee Young
> >> Model II
> >> KFM 112 not 582
> >>
> >>
> >> Do Not Archive.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
From Page(Grand Canyon) you can pretty much follow I-15 north to Brigham City,
UT (KBMC), then I-84 northwest to Caldwell. No serious heights and population
all along the way. If you come through Logan(KLGU), I'll buy you lunch and help
you haul mogas.
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud"
<SHOELESS@BAREFOOTPILOT.COM>
Vic,
From just north of Albuquerque go west to AZ. I would suggest flying the vfr
corridor over the grand canyon then lake powell then work your way up to
Caldwell. This is a fabulously beautiful route. You will love it.
Cliff
Hi List, I am back and would like some advice for a cross country to
Skystar headquarters in ID. The route will be from Roswell, NM then NW
toward Albuquerque then on. I would like to know the best (read safest)
route over the mountains during the winter months.
I would also like to know of some good airports to stop at in line with
th
e suggested route.
Yhanks,
Vic
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Weaver
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: motor oil 582 Rotax
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver"
<MYTYWEAV@EARTHLINK.NET>
You know Gary, people have done this for many years.......and gotten
away
with it for awhile. I too used 30W in a Yamaha with oil injection. It
worked
somewhat ok but I fouled plugs whenever I was bucking a headwind and had
to
add more throttle to maintain a cruise speed. When I added throttle, it
also
increased the stroke of the oil pump. This combin
ation didn't work out
good
at all... Under a load like that, it got a little warmer but almost
always
fouled one of the plugs. After changing to a GOOD 2 cycle oil (blended
for
the oil injection) the fouled plug scenario went away for good. BTW, I
also
had some fairly carboned up Heads as well as the piston/ring assembly.
Using the straight 30W was handed down to me from my father who was an
avid
outboard boat enthusiast. I always thought he was right on but after a
couple of years, I got it straightened out in my head and had no more
problems. I can't imagine running a good 582 into the ground just
because
someone is using the incorrect oil. I think you could run spreadsheets a
lot
of different ways and it just won't pencil ou
t......It's not
economically
reasonable.
Weav
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Algate" <ALGATE@ATTGLOBAL.NET>
To: <KITFOX-LIST@MATRONICS.COM>
Subject: RE: motor oil RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Rotax
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate"
<ALGATE@ATTGLOBAL.NET>
I'm amazed it even runs using motor oil as a substitute for 2 stroke
oil.
I think you have identified his problem
GaryA
Lite2/582
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:own
er-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Harris, Robert
To: 'kitfox-list@matronics.com'
Subject: motor oil RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Rotax
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert"
<ROBERT_HARRIS@INTUIT.COM>
It's too bad the engine starts at all because he shouldn't be using
motor
oil in substitute for two stroke oil.
RPM's are not getting high enough to produce a spark and then the
engine
floods. The poor oil choice will also foul the plugs and make it
harder to
get a good spark. A bare minimum for the oil should be two stroke oil
designed for oil injection systems.
Robert
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dee Youn
g
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 Rotax
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <HENRYSFORK1@MSN.COM>
Need some thoughts from the list. Please don't be afraid to speak up
here.
Have a friend who flys a 582. He has only a manual starter and is for
ever
wearing him self out trying to start it. His plugs foul all the time.
He
uses regular 30w automobile oil in his injection system and says its
just
as
good as the 2 stroke oil which I don't agree but then. Any ideas
here???????? and your thoughts on the oil??????
Thanks
Dee Young
Model II
KFM
112 not 582
Do Not Archive.
matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list
Message 33
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
Dee:
I don't think anyone else has pointed this out, but it's my understanding
that there are two different types of 2-stroke motor oil: some for
water-cooled engines such as marine craft, and others for air-cooled
engines. In my neck of the woods, the preferred oil for Rotax 2-strokers is
Pennzoil 2-stroke for air-cooled engines. Obviously the 582 is
water-cooled. Does that make a difference? I can't answer that. I can
only say that I never had any problem with fouled plugs or otherwise using
it in an oil-injected 582 I had on a Rans S12.
Clem Nichols
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 Rotax
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
>
> Need some thoughts from the list. Please don't be afraid to speak up here.
> Have a friend who flys a 582. He has only a manual starter and is for ever
> wearing him self out trying to start it. His plugs foul all the time. He
> uses regular 30w automobile oil in his injection system and says its just
> as
> good as the 2 stroke oil which I don't agree but then. Any ideas
> here???????? and your thoughts on the oil??????
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Dee Young
> Model II
> KFM 112 not 582
>
>
> Do Not Archive.
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.0 - Release Date: 1/17/2005
>
>
--
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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Message 34
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: dwight purdy <dpurdy@comteck.com>
Funny, my first lawn mower as a teen used 30wt at I believe 30 to1. Was
only a 2 1/2 hp. Ran for years with never a decarb. Maybe he mowed yards as
a child as I.
Dwight
At 11:49 AM 1/21/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
>
>I'm amazed it even runs using motor oil as a substitute for 2 stroke oil.
>
>I think you have identified his problem
>
>GaryA
>Lite2/582
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:own
>er-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Harris, Robert
>To: 'kitfox-list@matronics.com'
>Subject: motor oil RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Rotax
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert"
><Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
>
>It's too bad the engine starts at all because he shouldn't be using motor
>oil in substitute for two stroke oil.
>
>RPM's are not getting high enough to produce a spark and then the engine
>floods. The poor oil choice will also foul the plugs and make it harder to
>get a good spark. A bare minimum for the oil should be two stroke oil
>designed for oil injection systems.
>
>Robert
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dee Young
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 Rotax
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
>
>Need some thoughts from the list. Please don't be afraid to speak up here.
>Have a friend who flys a 582. He has only a manual starter and is for ever
>wearing him self out trying to start it. His plugs foul all the time. He
>uses regular 30w automobile oil in his injection system and says its just as
>
>good as the 2 stroke oil which I don't agree but then. Any ideas
>here???????? and your thoughts on the oil??????
>
>Thanks
>
>
>Dee Young
>Model II
>KFM 112 not 582
>
>
>Do Not Archive.
>
>
>--
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.1 - Release Date: 1/19/2005
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Message 35
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Robertson" <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
Clem,
Yes, it does matter which of the two 2-stroke oils you use. The preffered
oil is two stoke oil for air-cooled...regardless of wether your engine is
air or liquid cooled.
The oil for liquid cooled engines is 99% for the use on outboards etc.
and is not reccommended for use on our Rotax U/L engines. We have had a
couple of failures locally where the owner used outboard motor 2-stroke oil.
The rings gum real well on that stuff.
regards
Bob Robertson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 Rotax
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
>
> Dee:
>
> I don't think anyone else has pointed this out, but it's my understanding
> that there are two different types of 2-stroke motor oil: some for
> water-cooled engines such as marine craft, and others for air-cooled
> engines. In my neck of the woods, the preferred oil for Rotax 2-strokers
is
> Pennzoil 2-stroke for air-cooled engines. Obviously the 582 is
> water-cooled. Does that make a difference? I can't answer that. I can
> only say that I never had any problem with fouled plugs or otherwise using
> it in an oil-injected 582 I had on a Rans S12.
>
> Clem Nichols
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 Rotax
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
> >
> > Need some thoughts from the list. Please don't be afraid to speak up
here.
> > Have a friend who flys a 582. He has only a manual starter and is for
ever
> > wearing him self out trying to start it. His plugs foul all the time.
He
> > uses regular 30w automobile oil in his injection system and says its
just
> > as
> > good as the 2 stroke oil which I don't agree but then. Any ideas
> > here???????? and your thoughts on the oil??????
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> > Dee Young
> > Model II
> > KFM 112 not 582
> >
> >
> > Do Not Archive.
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.0 - Release Date: 1/17/2005
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>
>
Message 36
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles <wliles@bayou.com>
Well, your friend is wrong about the oil. He is fouling his plugs and
his engine and very likely has thoroughly carboned up the rings and
possibly coked the bearings. I believe his engine needs a teardown to
inspect the rings and bearings. Use the proper Rotax recommended two
stroke oil for air cooled engines only.
Jerry Liles
Dee Young wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
>
>Need some thoughts from the list. Please don't be afraid to speak up here.
>Have a friend who flys a 582. He has only a manual starter and is for ever
>wearing him self out trying to start it. His plugs foul all the time. He
>uses regular 30w automobile oil in his injection system and says its just as
>good as the 2 stroke oil which I don't agree but then. Any ideas
>here???????? and your thoughts on the oil??????
>
>Thanks
>
>
>Dee Young
>Model II
>KFM 112 not 582
>
>
>
>
Message 37
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
I agree, use the proper oil. When he says the two stroke oil is the same as
30w oil, well not to be a smart one, but is he one of those oil engineer
guys to say such a claim. In the transmission business there are more kinds
of oil than you can shake a stick at. If I don't put in the proper oil I
can mess things up pretty good. My feeling is, I'm up in the air and it's a
long way down to the ground, I want the best, and the right thang if you
know what I mean.
steve a
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jerry Liles
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 Rotax
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles <wliles@bayou.com>
Well, your friend is wrong about the oil. He is fouling his plugs and
his engine and very likely has thoroughly carboned up the rings and
possibly coked the bearings. I believe his engine needs a teardown to
inspect the rings and bearings. Use the proper Rotax recommended two
stroke oil for air cooled engines only.
Jerry Liles
Dee Young wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
>
>Need some thoughts from the list. Please don't be afraid to speak up here.
>Have a friend who flys a 582. He has only a manual starter and is for ever
>wearing him self out trying to start it. His plugs foul all the time. He
>uses regular 30w automobile oil in his injection system and says its just
as
>good as the 2 stroke oil which I don't agree but then. Any ideas
>here???????? and your thoughts on the oil??????
>
>Thanks
>
>
>Dee Young
>Model II
>KFM 112 not 582
>
>
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: [Off-topic] Cajun WAS: Bungies |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles <wliles@bayou.com>
The food's the best and the party's even better. Mardi Gras is coming -
best party in the USA. Come join in!
Jerry
Michel Verheughe wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>
>
>
>>From: Jerry Liles [wliles@bayou.com]
>>Not in cowboy country Michel. I'm from bayou country - Louisiana -
>>alligators, muskrats, catfish, snapping turtles, crawfish and fishing boats.
>>
>>
>
>Ahhh! La Louisiane! Le pays des Acadiens, or Cajun, as you pronounce it! :-)
>Indeed, too much swamp for the big horns, Jerry. No Malboro country there but
... great food! :-)
>
>Cheers,
>Michel
>
>
>
>
Message 39
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski <szakreski@shaw.ca>
Another great aviation website. For me, this is my favourite site. It is
Canadian, but 90% is universal for all of us.
http://bathursted.ccnb.nb.ca/vatcan/fir/moncton/WeeklyTopics/
SteveZ
Calgary
Message 40
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| Subject: | Great Aviation Website |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski <szakreski@shaw.ca>
List
Here's my new favourite aviation website. For Canadian pilots it is a
goldmine. But 90% still applies to aviation in general.
http://bathursted.ccnb.nb.ca/vatcan/fir/moncton/WeeklyTopics/WeeklyTopicIntr
o.html
SteveZ
Calgary
Message 41
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver" <Mytyweav@earthlink.net>
Sorry Dude... this site is in French..........
Makes no sense at all.
Weav
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Zakreski" <szakreski@shaw.ca>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Rotax
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski <szakreski@shaw.ca>
>
> Another great aviation website. For me, this is my favourite site. It is
> Canadian, but 90% is universal for all of us.
> http://bathursted.ccnb.nb.ca/vatcan/fir/moncton/WeeklyTopics/
>
> SteveZ
> Calgary
>
>
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Kreeming a Fuel Tank |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "cjswa" <cjswa@comcast.net>
List,
Instead of using Kreem, has anyone tried sloshing their tanks with a alcohol
fuel resistant epoxy? I have old Kreem coated tanks (not yet installed)
and was thinking of removing the Kreem and sloshing them with a thinned
novolac epoxy like Jeffco makes or an epoxy tank sealer sold by Caswell
Electroplating. Thoughts on the pros and cons of this? If you've done
this, how did you do it?
Bill Anderson
Model 4 - 1050
Message 43
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| Subject: | Kreeming a fuel tank |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
So, anyone have a set of tanks they want to send to them or make some
drawing to get a quote. Sounds interesting. My tanks are over 10 years old
and in the plane. To reslosh with anything would be hit and miss at best.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jerry
Deckard
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kreeming a fuel tank
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jerry Deckard" <mustangsally@semo.net>
This place says they can make plastic tanks in any shape. They even list
experimental aircraft on their project list. No idea of the cost.
http://www.modroto.com/fueltanks.htm
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brett Walmsley" <kitfox4@numail.org>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kreeming a fuel tank
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" <kitfox4@numail.org>
>
> Thanks Deke,
> I think I will proceed pretty much as yoiu have. I think thinner is
> better.
>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: Kreeming a Fuel Tank |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
My tank - right - does. The tank first had fuel in it in mid 1998. It was
factory Kreemed in late 1992. Actually, I had two tanks jigged for the same
side with the filler neck on the wrong end of one, giving the impression
that I had a right and a left tank, when in actuality I had two rights of
two lefts. As I was building the wings, I found out the washout on one tank
was wrong and sent it back for a replacement. I don't know which tank is of
the newer vintage - but.
While toweling off the early morning dew on the 2002 Idaho trip at Cavanaugh
Bay, I noticed some small blisters on the top of the wing between the filler
cap and the skylight. Curious as I didn't bond the fabric to the top of the
tank. Anyway, after 4 years of flying and after 3 days of flying with
100LL, I had pinhole leaks in numerous spots on the top of the tank. I
haven't figured out the physics of this phenomenon. but somehow the fuel
leaked out of the tank percolated through the Polybrush and Polyspray and
then blistered the Aerothane. The largest was about 1/4" and the then were
smaller to about pinpoint size.
I don't know what all this means, but I have finally decided to remove the
wing and reslosh the tank. I will use Kreem using, very likely, Deke's
method, except without the water wash. I did a lot of fiberglass years ago
and found that water, wicked into the glass fibers, is almost impossible to
get out. It appeared as blisters under top finishes as it steamed in the
hot sun and this after days of drying after wet sanding.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kreeming a Fuel Tank
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
>
> If I may add just a bit to this, the Kreem isn't used because of fuel
types
> nor is it affected by them. The problem is with the fiberglass fibers
that
> can wick fuel through the resins which creates a weepy-seepy-stinky tank
and
> smells up the cockpit. Kreem simply seals up the fibers. Not all tanks
> have this problem, but many have.
> Using it 50/50 creates a better slosh and seals the fibers nicely.
> The choice is with the builder.
> Deke
>
> >
> > Answer: Because the tanks will leak thru the pin holes the coating is
> > supposed to seal. The newer tanks probably do not need the coating since
> > they are less prone to leak. Tanks that use Aflac (spelling??) resin are
> > compatible with auto gas. Call Skystar to see which tank you have. '95
> > vintage are the old resin
> > Paul
> > ===============
> >
> > At 07:09 PM 1/20/05 -0800, you wrote:
> > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
> > >
> > >Are you going to use auto fuel? If not why do it?
> > >
> > >Rick
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > >[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> > >brettandsandy@numail.org
> > >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > >Subject: Kitfox-List: Kreeming a Fuel Tank
> > >
> > >
> > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: <brettandsandy@numail.org>
> > >
> > >Looking for some experienced advice.
> > >I am going to Kreem my tanks. They are clean and new and ready to go.
How
> > >much should I use and, how thick should it be and, do I put on more
than
> one
> > >coat. Here is my plan. Pour in one quart undiluted, slosh then drain
out
> > >excess. Just when good and tacky, pour in second quart and then drain.
> Wadda
> > >ya think? Will it work better if thinned some or is two coats overkill?
I
> > >have 13 gallon tanks.
> >
> >
>
>
> BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS
> ------------------------------------------------------
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