---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 01/26/05: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:50 AM - external pod (Graeme Toft) 2. 03:32 AM - Alberta flies again (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 3. 04:17 AM - Re: EGT (Steve Magdic) 4. 06:51 AM - Re: EGT (Jimmie Blackwell) 5. 08:30 AM - Re: EGT (Randy Daughenbaugh) 6. 08:53 AM - Re: EGT on 912 UL (Roger Standley) 7. 11:01 AM - 912 EGT (Paul Peerenboom) 8. 11:19 AM - Kitfox Model I/II (Cloughley, Bill) 9. 11:39 AM - Re: Kitfox Model I/II (Dee Young) 10. 04:37 PM - Re: Kitfox Model I/II (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 11. 04:58 PM - Re: Florida Flying (Rex Hefferan) 12. 06:23 PM - Re: Alberta flies again (John King) 13. 06:26 PM - model 4 1200 with 29ft wings. (Giovanni Day) 14. 06:59 PM - Re: model 4 1200 with 29ft wings. (Giovanni Day) 15. 07:07 PM - Re: Kitfox Model I/II (Glenn Horne) 16. 08:38 PM - Re: Florida Flying () 17. 09:43 PM - Re: Re: Landing on a slope (jimshumaker) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:50:58 AM PST US From: "Graeme Toft" Subject: Kitfox-List: external pod --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" HI Guys, Thanks to all who repied with advice about bungies. I now have a spanking new set with wipping and latex covers. Looks great and will do the job nicely. Now that you have all sorted out that problem for me is anyone able to give me the dimentions of the cylindrical pod that was slung under the early foxes. A lister has emailed me pictures of a composite compartment that attaches externally but the work to make the mould is a bit beyond my abilities. I remember seeing a number of the cylindical ones but was never able to get sufficient detail to see how it was attached. If anyone is able to comment about the pro's or cons of this compartment I'd really appreciate it. Its getting very squeezy in my Model 1 and while the others in the group are sleeping comfortably in their tents, I'm out with the bugs. Thanks Guys Graeme. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:32:10 AM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Kitfox-List: Alberta flies again --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com Finally managed to get my CFI together for the first flight after radiator cowl mods. We completed half the BFR during testing. The OAT's at 2500' were about 20 degrees so of course, I didn't get to check any overheating problems. During a straight climb to altitude, the coolant never reached 155 degrees. Even at cruise, it never got to 160. I closed both sides of the new radiator flap and the temp still stayed below 160. The temp inside the cowling at the carb intake (using the EIS OAT Probe) was 45 degrees. With the EIS CHT probes on the two alum coolant pipes, they indicated almost a 20 degree difference between input/output coolant temps even with the rad flaps closed. I was hoping to have more control over the temps. During decent with both flaps closed, the temps dropped to around 135. Didn't like that either. It almost seems that I could have flown yesterday without a radiator at all. Just pipe the coolant from the output to the input of the engine. Speed with the new fairings remained about the same at 85-90 MPH @ 5800 RPM's. John, I'm backing out on the title for title race. Don Smythe N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:17:09 AM PST US Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: EGT From: "Steve Magdic" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Magdic" Jimmie, I've been flying the 912 for a while now. What type of instruments are you using for EGT, Water Temp, Oil Temp and Oil Pressure? Steve Magdic 912 Mod 3/4 N490PA -----Original Message----- From: Jimmie Blackwell [mailto:jablackwell@ev1.net] Subject: Kitfox-List: EGT --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" Would appreciate someone directing me to where I might learn more about EGT on the 912 UL. I believe that my EGT is to high and do not know what to do about it. If anyone can point me to a web site where I might find a discussion about EGT it would be very helpful. Thank you. Jimmie ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:51:05 AM PST US From: "Jimmie Blackwell" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: EGT --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" Steve I am using a Westach quad gauge. The gauge was overhauled and calibrated a couple of months ago. Jimmie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Magdic" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: EGT > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Magdic" > > Jimmie, I've been flying the 912 for a while now. What type of instruments are you using > for EGT, Water Temp, Oil Temp and Oil Pressure? > Steve Magdic > 912 Mod 3/4 > N490PA > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jimmie Blackwell [mailto:jablackwell@ev1.net] > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: EGT > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" > > Would appreciate someone directing me to where I might learn more about EGT on the 912 UL. I believe that my EGT is to high and do not know what to do about it. If anyone can point me to a web site where I might find a discussion about EGT it would be very helpful. > > Thank you. > > Jimmie > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:30:25 AM PST US From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: EGT --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Jimmie, I had the same questions about my 912S. I was worrying about mixture and everything else, but thanks to experts on the list I found my temperatures were OK. I suspect that your's are too, but don't know if there are differences between the 912 and 912S. Interestingly I later found the pertinent numbers in the manuals on the CD that I received with my engine. The info was in the installation manual NOT in the Operation manual. Hmmmm,,,,, I just looked for 912 data on the same CD. It says that "Nominal c." is 1470 F (800 C). And "max" is 1560 F (850 C). The info is the same for the 912S with the addition of Max at take off of 1620 F (880 C). Hope this helps. Randy . -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jimmie Blackwell Subject: Kitfox-List: EGT --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" Would appreciate someone directing me to where I might learn more about EGT on the 912 UL. I believe that my EGT is to high and do not know what to do about it. If anyone can point me to a web site where I might find a discussion about EGT it would be very helpful. Thank you. Jimmie ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:53:29 AM PST US From: "Roger Standley" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: EGT on 912 UL Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 08:53:53 -0800 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Roger Standley" If you believe your EGT is running too high, you can raise the long pins in the carbs a notch to increase mixture richness. I did this and it helped. To confirm correct mixture setting, while flying at cruise rpm setting, momentarily pull the "choke". If rpms increase slightly, mixture may be too lean. If no change in rpm, then mixture is probably OK. Checking spark plug color is another way to confirm mixture setting. ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Standley To: kitfox-list Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 5:03 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: EGT on 912 UL Jimmie, This has been one of those scan items that needs careful watching...climbing and above 3000' , no problems. But below 3000' feet, the rpm need to be below 3600 or above 5300 to keep the EGT 1550 or below. This has worked out fine for me and the engine has performed flawlessly. However, low altitude formation flying with other slower airplanes could present a problem. Flew with a Fitfox Model 1 one time, I was at 1500' MSL, 3600 rpm, EGT at 1550 and 70 mph and he was at full throttle, we did just fine. If he could have gone faster, say 90 or so, we would have had to be above 3000' MSL or my EGT would have been in the red with about 4600 rpm. Roger IV-1200, 912UL ----- Original Message ----- From: Jimmie Blackwell To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 5:44 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: EGT on 912 UL --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" > This was one of those rare days that my wife actually said to me "please go fly and get out of my way for the afternoon". Don't know what I did right, but if I figure it out I am gonna do it again. Anyway, wanted to compare my EGT readings with some of you that have more experience with the 912. At 4500' msl and 4800 to 5000 rpm I am seeing about 1575 degrees F on my gauge(gauge calibrated two months ago). When I reduce rpm to 4000 EGT drops to about 1450 degrees f. My operators manual on the 912 says 1570 degrees F for EGT is the maximum. Just wondering what your experience is the 912 and EGT. BTW it was a beautiful calm day in Texas and about 45 degrees F. That may sound warm to some of you, but at 4500' this ole boy was shivering. Jimmie ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:01:33 AM PST US From: "Paul Peerenboom" Subject: Kitfox-List: 912 EGT --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Peerenboom" Isn't the Wastach have the installation effect in that it is calibrated to 75F and that you have to subtract or add the difference to the outside air temp. So when its 50F the indicator will read 25 deg high and at 100F the indicator will read 25 deg low. This is thermocouple error and is caused by the cold junction. Paul N102DG ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:19:42 AM PST US From: "Cloughley, Bill" Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Model I/II --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cloughley, Bill" I recently bought a 95% completed KitfoxI in an estate sale -- kit number 19, believe it or not. It's covered, painted, and the workmanship is outstanding. However, the instructions are pretty sketchy; I really need something to compare it to. Can someone give me a steer to a Model I/II/III owner/builder in the Baltimore/Washington D.C. area, or even PA, NJ, VA? I can fly to the airport where the Kitfox is at. Thanks in advance, Bill Cloughley Severna Park, Maryland I recently bought a95% completed KitfoxI in an estate sale -- kit number 19, believe itor not. It's covered, painted, and the workmanship is outstanding. However, the instructions are pretty sketchy; I really need something to compare it to. Can someone give me a steer to a Model I/II/III owner/builder in the Baltimore/Washington D.C. area, or even PA, NJ, VA? Ican fly to the airport where the Kitfox is at. Thanks in advance, Bill Cloughley Severna Park, Maryland ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:39:27 AM PST US From: "Dee Young" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Model I/II Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 12:36:53 -0700 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" Bill, I have kit #345 in a Model II. If I can help I would be glad to. Contact me off list. Dee Young Model II N345DY Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Cloughley, Bill To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 12:18 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Model I/II --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cloughley, Bill" > I recently bought a 95% completed KitfoxI in an estate sale -- kit number 19, believe it or not. It's covered, painted, and the workmanship is outstanding. However, the instructions are pretty sketchy; I really need something to compare it to. Can someone give me a steer to a Model I/II/III owner/builder in the Baltimore/Washington D.C. area, or even PA, NJ, VA? I can fly to the airport where the Kitfox is at. Thanks in advance, Bill Cloughley Severna Park, Maryland I recently bought a95% completed KitfoxI in an estate sale -- kit number 19, believe itor not. It's covered, painted, and the workmanship is outstanding. However, the instructions are pretty sketchy; I really need something to compare it to. Can someone give me a steer to a Model I/II/III owner/builder in the Baltimore/Washington D.C. area, or even PA, NJ, VA? Ican fly to the airport where the Kitfox is at. Thanks in advance, Bill Cloughley Severna Park, Maryland ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:37:01 PM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Model I/II --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com In a message dated 1/26/05 11:20:35 AM Pacific Standard Time, BCloughl@ciena.com writes: << I recently bought a 95% completed Kitfox in an estate sale -- kit number 19, believe it or not. It's covered, painted, and the workmanship is outstanding. However, the instructions are pretty sketchy; >> Bill, There is a model II/III in Suffolk, Va. (ready for first flight) and a model IV in Newport News. Come on down. BTW, there is no such thing as a Kitfox 95% complete. That means you have at least 65 % to go. Don Smythe N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:58:54 PM PST US From: Rex Hefferan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Florida Flying --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Rex Hefferan Kurt, I will be visiting relatives in a couple of weeks in Orlando and I will try to inquire about potential fying communities. It's been 14 years since I was involved with flying in Florida, but Orlando is where I learned. Rex Colorado -----Original Message----- From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Florida Flying --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader OK everybody, I've gone and done it. It appears that, starting in May, I will be flying out of Florida for UPS. Is this mid-life-crisis? ;-) I need to find a nice, KitFox friendly place to live in Florida. I probably will look first near Orlando someplace, but I see that there are some 40 flying communities in state. I'm open for suggestions. The flights I'll be taking go out of Miami, Orlando, Jacksonville, and St Pete. Looks like I'll be using my RV as temporary living space when leaving from the more distant airports from my home, where ever that is. My negotiable preferences are: Near Orlando or reasonable drive? Live with my plane or have inexpensice hangar space Where I can use wheels and floats? Safe and friendly community Bigger lots or acreage per house Cheap? I am retiring soon. Can't afford Palm Beach I've been to Spruce Creek and Leeward Ranch so far. No floats/water at either and Leeward is a bit dull for a non-horse person, IMHO. Still looking. I can build on an empty lot, if the right house isn't available. I don't mind buying land, building, and cutting a runway either. Yes, I am still moving to the Rockies later... UPS doesn't have a base in Idaho. :-( Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:23:48 PM PST US From: John King Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Alberta flies again --> Kitfox-List message posted by: John King Don, Good Call!!! -- John King Warrenton, VA DO NOT ARCHIVE AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com > > Finally managed to get my CFI together for the first flight after >radiator cowl mods. We completed half the BFR during testing. The OAT's at 2500' >were about 20 degrees so of course, I didn't get to check any overheating >problems. > During a straight climb to altitude, the coolant never reached 155 >degrees. Even at cruise, it never got to 160. I closed both sides of the new >radiator flap and the temp still stayed below 160. The temp inside the cowling at >the carb intake (using the EIS OAT Probe) was 45 degrees. With the EIS CHT >probes on the two alum coolant pipes, they indicated almost a 20 degree >difference between input/output coolant temps even with the rad flaps closed. I was >hoping to have more control over the temps. During decent with both flaps >closed, the temps dropped to around 135. Didn't like that either. > It almost seems that I could have flown yesterday without a radiator at >all. Just pipe the coolant from the output to the input of the engine. > Speed with the new fairings remained about the same at 85-90 MPH @ 5800 >RPM's. > John, I'm backing out on the title for title race. > >Don Smythe >N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 > > >_ > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:26:10 PM PST US From: "Giovanni Day" Subject: Kitfox-List: model 4 1200 with 29ft wings. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Giovanni Day" Hello all, I am wondering if a model 4 1200 with the wings shortened has a decreased gross? Is the cruise increased that much when powered by a 912ul? What are the major pros and cons? Thanks for your help. Giovanni Day Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:59:58 PM PST US From: "Giovanni Day" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: model 4 1200 with 29ft wings. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Giovanni Day" Sorry all for posting this to soon. I searched the archive to no avail then realized I was on the rv archive. I am still interested in the major pros and cons. Thanks Giovanni Day Definitely Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Giovanni Day Subject: Kitfox-List: model 4 1200 with 29ft wings. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Giovanni Day" Hello all, I am wondering if a model 4 1200 with the wings shortened has a decreased gross? Is the cruise increased that much when powered by a 912ul? What are the major pros and cons? Thanks for your help. Giovanni Day Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:07:17 PM PST US From: "Glenn Horne" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Model I/II --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Glenn Horne" Hi Bill, Glenn Horne here. I live in Suffolk, Va. About 30 miles west of Norfolk, Va. I'm waiting on the FAA to get my finial inspection done on my Model II. Ser.# 548. I have two construction manual on the Model II. If I can be of any help please let me know. My Fox is based at the Suffolk Executive Airport. (SFQ) Glenn Horne, Model II 582 Model II. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dee Young" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Model I/II > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" > > Bill, I have kit #345 in a Model II. If I can help I would be glad to. > Contact me off list. > > > Dee Young > Model II > N345DY > > Do Not Archive > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Cloughley, Bill > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 12:18 PM > Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Model I/II > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cloughley, Bill" > > > > I recently bought a 95% completed KitfoxI in an estate sale -- kit number > 19, believe it or not. > > It's covered, painted, and the workmanship is outstanding. However, the > instructions are pretty sketchy; > > I really need something to compare it to. Can someone give me a steer to > a Model I/II/III owner/builder in > > the Baltimore/Washington D.C. area, or even PA, NJ, VA? I can fly to the > airport where the Kitfox is at. > > Thanks in advance, > > > Bill Cloughley > > Severna Park, Maryland > > > > > > I recently bought a class590181619-26012005>95% completed KitfoxI in an estate sale -- > kit number 19, believe itor not. > > > It's covered, painted, and the > workmanship is outstanding. However, > the instructions are pretty > sketchy; > > > I really need something to compare it to. Can > someone give me a steer to a Model > I/II/III owner/builder in > > > the Baltimore/Washington D.C. class590181619-26012005> area, or even PA, NJ, VA? I class590181619-26012005>can fly to the airport where the Kitfox is at. > > > Thanks in > advance, > > > class590181619-26012005> > > > size2>Bill > Cloughley > > > faceArial>Severna Park, > Maryland > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:38:33 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Florida Flying From: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Kurt- Take a look at airporthomes.com. The first listing under Find a Home is Florida... Good luck, Lonnie ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:43:45 PM PST US From: "jimshumaker" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Landing on a slope --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker" Hi Mike The Cow Pasture is on the East side of the Salinas Valley. The Salinas Valley is a hundred mile long coastal valley in Central California. Winters are mild, as you can tell by the green grass and Summers are cool due to the inflow of ocean air. Summer days average about 75 F highs, Winters average about 60 degrees. We usually get a dusting of white on the hills in the background of the picture...but don't bring your skis. The deepest I've ever seen the snow is about 3 inches on the peaks (about 3300 feet ASL). The hills will turn golden by May. Jim Shumaker