Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:40 AM - Wing covering...scallop or no scallop? (Lynn Matteson)
2. 04:54 AM - Re: Wing covering...scallop or no scallop? (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
3. 05:22 AM - Re: Wing covering...scallop or no scallop? (Howard Firm)
4. 06:45 AM - Re: Wing covering...scallop or no scallop? (Flier)
5. 06:47 AM - Re: Wing covering...scallop or no scallop? (Flier)
6. 07:39 AM - Re: Wing covering...scallop or no scallop? (Lynn Matteson)
7. 08:00 AM - Re: Wing covering...scallop or no scallop? (Randy Daughenbaugh)
8. 08:18 AM - Re: EGT (Randy Daughenbaugh)
9. 11:48 AM - Weight and balance - Jabiru/KF3 (Michel Verheughe)
10. 12:15 PM - Re: Weight and balance - Jabiru/KF3 (Don Pearsall)
11. 12:38 PM - Re: Florida Flying (Mdkitfox@aol.com)
12. 12:42 PM - Re: Weight and balance - Jabiru/KF3 (Steve Cooper)
13. 01:30 PM - Re: Wing covering...scallop or no scallop? (Flier)
14. 02:26 PM - Re: Wing covering...scallop or no scallop? (Lynn Matteson)
15. 03:08 PM - Re: Florida Flying (Jerry Liles)
16. 04:50 PM - Re: Wing covering...scallop or no scallop? (Flier)
17. 05:49 PM - Weight and Balance (Jim Gilliatt)
18. 06:09 PM - Re: Wing covering...scallop or no scallop? (Lynn Matteson)
19. 06:50 PM - Re: Wing covering...scallop or no scallop? (Flier)
20. 07:20 PM - Re: Engine choices moreo n NSI wieght (John Larsen)
21. 07:32 PM - Re: Wing covering...scallop or no scallop? (Steve Cooper)
22. 08:36 PM - Re: Weight and balance - Jabiru/KF3 (Tom Jones)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Wing covering...scallop or no scallop? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
I'm in the process of covering a wing, and have some concerns about
whether to follow the Poly-fiber manual and video, or the Skystar
manual (old and newer version). (I have covered the vertical fin and
rudder so far with no problems, and have done 8 foot models with
Poly-fiber, so I'm up to speed with the process)
I'm pondering the SS suggestion of scalloping the lower fabric/leading
edge attachment point of the Poly-fiber material. The newer manual (SS)
tells you to follow the Poly-fiber manual, but SS "suggests" that you
scallop the leading edge material so that it can be wrapped around the
upper part of the front spar. I cannot figure why this would be
necessary. It makes for a lot more work, and the advantages are
questionable, to me anyway. If the lines are snapped and fabric is cut
per Poly-fiber, and there is a 2" fabric-to-fabric overlap, and the
seam is covered with, in my case, a 6" finishing tape, where is the
need for this scalloping?
Also, they (SS) show and tell you to Poly-tak each rib capstrip during
the covering process, and this is not done in either the P-F manual or
the P-F video. The concave-bottom wing instructions warn against
Poly-takking the top surface of the capstrips, and a phone call to P-F
maintained this procedure...that is, Poly-tak on the lower capstrips
only (for initial bonding prior to rib lacing), and letting the upper
surface fabric "float". No techies were available at SS yesterday to
answer these questions.
Any input would be appreciated...in the meantime, I'll search the
archives...thanks.
Lynn
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Wing covering...scallop or no scallop? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 1/29/05 4:40:38 AM Pacific Standard Time, lynnmatt@jps.net
writes:
<< I'm pondering the SS suggestion of scalloping the lower fabric/leading
edge attachment point of the Poly-fiber material. The newer manual (SS)
tells you to follow the Poly-fiber manual, but SS "suggests" that you
scallop the leading edge material so that it can be wrapped around the >>
I don't recall the suggestion to scallop the material in that area when I
built in 95. IMHO, I would follow the Poly Fiber manual for all covering.
Nothing against SS but Poly Fiber is the professional and designed the system.
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Wing covering...scallop or no scallop? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Howard Firm" <pianome2@mchsi.com>
I think that the scalloping really helps to keep the wrinkles to a
minimum...I remember marking and then freehand drawing the scallop
shape...It also gives the fabric a little more covering around the spar past
the ribs.
Howard Firm
508 12th St. South
Virginia MN 55792
Message 4
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| Subject: | Wing covering...scallop or no scallop? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Flier" <flier@sbcglobal.net>
Lynn,
I think you're talking about wrapping the lower fabric all the way around
the front spar to gain the 3/4 attachment. To do this you would have to cut
the material to lay in between the top ribs and false ribs. If I recall I
did this. The thing it will do for you is you won't leave a line down the
length of the leading edge that shows through to the top fabric. Anytime
you overlap the fabric there will be a line left showing. Scalloping like
that leaves only trim lines across the ribs visible once the top fabric
overlaps. Looks nicer. On a large area like that the 3/4 or better wrap is
not as much of a safety issue but clearly anytime you have more contact area
it's a better thing.
On the top ribs, coat them with polytak and let it dry. Apply the top
fabric and shrink, then come back across the capstrips with heavily thinned
polytak or just MEK to activate the polytak underneath the fabric and secure
it to the capstrip. On the bottom fabric, make sure you get really good
adhesion when you first apply the fabric else it can pull away from the
camber.
Regards,
Ted
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lynn
Matteson
Subject: Kitfox-List: Wing covering...scallop or no scallop?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
I'm in the process of covering a wing, and have some concerns about
whether to follow the Poly-fiber manual and video, or the Skystar
manual (old and newer version). (I have covered the vertical fin and
rudder so far with no problems, and have done 8 foot models with
Poly-fiber, so I'm up to speed with the process)
I'm pondering the SS suggestion of scalloping the lower fabric/leading
edge attachment point of the Poly-fiber material. The newer manual (SS)
tells you to follow the Poly-fiber manual, but SS "suggests" that you
scallop the leading edge material so that it can be wrapped around the
upper part of the front spar. I cannot figure why this would be
necessary. It makes for a lot more work, and the advantages are
questionable, to me anyway. If the lines are snapped and fabric is cut
per Poly-fiber, and there is a 2" fabric-to-fabric overlap, and the
seam is covered with, in my case, a 6" finishing tape, where is the
need for this scalloping?
Also, they (SS) show and tell you to Poly-tak each rib capstrip during
the covering process, and this is not done in either the P-F manual or
the P-F video. The concave-bottom wing instructions warn against
Poly-takking the top surface of the capstrips, and a phone call to P-F
maintained this procedure...that is, Poly-tak on the lower capstrips
only (for initial bonding prior to rib lacing), and letting the upper
surface fabric "float". No techies were available at SS yesterday to
answer these questions.
Any input would be appreciated...in the meantime, I'll search the
archives...thanks.
Lynn
Message 5
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| Subject: | Wing covering...scallop or no scallop? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Flier" <flier@sbcglobal.net>
You're right Howard. Good point. I left that out in my other post.
Glueing the scallops allows you to pass the iron over the leading edge and
the fabric pulls up tight. That's a tough place to get all the bubbles out
anyway if you glue on the leading edge...
Regards,
Ted
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Howard Firm
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wing covering...scallop or no scallop?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Howard Firm" <pianome2@mchsi.com>
I think that the scalloping really helps to keep the wrinkles to a
minimum...I remember marking and then freehand drawing the scallop
shape...It also gives the fabric a little more covering around the spar past
the ribs.
Howard Firm
508 12th St. South
Virginia MN 55792
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Wing covering...scallop or no scallop? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Ok, I see what the reasoning is now for the scalloping...not so much
for a strength issue, but for appearances.
Now on the polytak on the top ribs issue, PF clearly states "if you
plan to rib lace....DO NOT cement the fabric to the top surface
ribs"...this is on page 97 of the PF manual, Revision 20, in the
appendix on concave-bottom wings. In my phone conversation with PF
yesterday, the tech also reiterated this point. They want the fabric to
float during the rib lacing process.
Ted, did you rib lace? I can see the polytak being applied to the top
of the ribs if rib lacing is not done, but following PF's advice to NOT
polytak the upper-rib capstrips seems right, as they are the people who
should know. I'm not doubting your advice, just trying to clarify.
Lynn
On Saturday, January 29, 2005, at 09:44 AM, Flier wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Flier" <flier@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Lynn,
>
> I think you're talking about wrapping the lower fabric all the way
> around
> the front spar to gain the 3/4 attachment. To do this you would have
> to cut
> the material to lay in between the top ribs and false ribs. If I
> recall I
> did this. The thing it will do for you is you won't leave a line down
> the
> length of the leading edge that shows through to the top fabric.
> Anytime
> you overlap the fabric there will be a line left showing.
> Scalloping like
> that leaves only trim lines across the ribs visible once the top fabric
> overlaps. Looks nicer. On a large area like that the 3/4 or better
> wrap is
> not as much of a safety issue but clearly anytime you have more
> contact area
> it's a better thing.
>
> On the top ribs, coat them with polytak and let it dry. Apply the top
> fabric and shrink, then come back across the capstrips with heavily
> thinned
> polytak or just MEK to activate the polytak underneath the fabric and
> secure
> it to the capstrip. On the bottom fabric, make sure you get really
> good
> adhesion when you first apply the fabric else it can pull away from the
> camber.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ted
Message 7
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| Subject: | Wing covering...scallop or no scallop? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
As Ted said, I am a real advocate of putting two coats of polytak on the top
of the ribs and then let it dry. After gluing the clothe to the end ribs
and leading and trailing edge, do a preliminary heat shrink, then just brush
some MEK on the top of the ribs and the polytak will soak right up into the
clothe and it is all very quickly glued in the right spot. Then finish
shrinking.
This works on the concave areas too if the preliminary heat shrink is not
too tight. Just lay a small open end wrench between the ribs to pull the
fabric down to the rib surface and then hit it with the MEK.
Randy
.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wing covering...scallop or no scallop?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Ok, I see what the reasoning is now for the scalloping...not so much
for a strength issue, but for appearances.
Now on the polytak on the top ribs issue, PF clearly states "if you
plan to rib lace....DO NOT cement the fabric to the top surface
ribs"...this is on page 97 of the PF manual, Revision 20, in the
appendix on concave-bottom wings. In my phone conversation with PF
yesterday, the tech also reiterated this point. They want the fabric to
float during the rib lacing process.
Ted, did you rib lace? I can see the polytak being applied to the top
of the ribs if rib lacing is not done, but following PF's advice to NOT
polytak the upper-rib capstrips seems right, as they are the people who
should know. I'm not doubting your advice, just trying to clarify.
Lynn
On Saturday, January 29, 2005, at 09:44 AM, Flier wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Flier" <flier@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Lynn,
>
> I think you're talking about wrapping the lower fabric all the way
> around
> the front spar to gain the 3/4 attachment. To do this you would have
> to cut
> the material to lay in between the top ribs and false ribs. If I
> recall I
> did this. The thing it will do for you is you won't leave a line down
> the
> length of the leading edge that shows through to the top fabric.
> Anytime
> you overlap the fabric there will be a line left showing.
> Scalloping like
> that leaves only trim lines across the ribs visible once the top fabric
> overlaps. Looks nicer. On a large area like that the 3/4 or better
> wrap is
> not as much of a safety issue but clearly anytime you have more
> contact area
> it's a better thing.
>
> On the top ribs, coat them with polytak and let it dry. Apply the top
> fabric and shrink, then come back across the capstrips with heavily
> thinned
> polytak or just MEK to activate the polytak underneath the fabric and
> secure
> it to the capstrip. On the bottom fabric, make sure you get really
> good
> adhesion when you first apply the fabric else it can pull away from the
> camber.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ted
Message 8
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
Jimmie,
Like I said, I found it in the installation manual. Just use the adobe
search function and put in EGT.
Randy
.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jimmie
Blackwell
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: EGT
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" <jablackwell@ev1.net>
Looked through the CD, but can't find anything on EGT's. It must be there
and I am just looking in the wrong place.
Jimmie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: EGT
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh"
<rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
>
> Jimmie,
> I had the same questions about my 912S. I was worrying about mixture and
> everything else, but thanks to experts on the list I found my temperatures
> were OK. I suspect that your's are too, but don't know if there are
> differences between the 912 and 912S.
>
> Interestingly I later found the pertinent numbers in the manuals on the CD
> that I received with my engine. The info was in the installation manual
NOT
> in the Operation manual.
>
> Hmmmm,,,,, I just looked for 912 data on the same CD. It says that
> "Nominal c." is 1470 F (800 C). And "max" is 1560 F (850 C). The info
is
> the same for the 912S with the addition of Max at take off of 1620 F (880
> C).
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Randy
>
> .
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jimmie
> Blackwell
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: EGT
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell"
<jablackwell@ev1.net>
>
> Would appreciate someone directing me to where I might learn more about
EGT
> on the 912 UL. I believe that my EGT is to high and do not know what to
do
> about it. If anyone can point me to a web site where I might find a
> discussion about EGT it would be very helpful.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Jimmie
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Weight and balance - Jabiru/KF3 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Hello guys,
Today, I did the W&B with the new Jabiru 2200 on my Kitfox 3. The new cowling
was in place, although it is not painted yet. Oil was in the engine but no fuel.
The good news is that the plane (previously with a Rotax 582) weight only two
kilos more than before. The bad news is that the weight is now more forward. My
tail used to be 20 Kg, it is now 13 kg.
That brings the CoG 26 cm from the leading edge, where it should be rather 36
cm. That brings me forward of the allowed limit. :-(
To change that, I'll need, at least, 4 kg in the tail. Man, I'd hate to fly
with a lead weight in the tail!
What went wrong? Well, nothing, but the Jab is more forward than the 582. About
6 cm.
Any idea how I can get my CoG in the right place without moving the battery
which is now on the cockpit side of the firewall?
Cheers,
Michel
Message 10
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| Subject: | Weight and balance - Jabiru/KF3 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
Michel,
Swinging the wings forward will give you more aft weight. I realize that
that is not practical since the spars are already drilled, though. Also
moving your seat back will do it. How about putting the ELT way in back? A
heavier tail wheel?
But most people end up putting ballast in back (dead weight) or the battery
(live weight).
Don Pearsall
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel
Verheughe
Subject: Kitfox-List: Weight and balance - Jabiru/KF3
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Hello guys,
Today, I did the W&B with the new Jabiru 2200 on my Kitfox 3. The new
cowling
was in place, although it is not painted yet. Oil was in the engine but no
fuel.
The good news is that the plane (previously with a Rotax 582) weight only
two
kilos more than before. The bad news is that the weight is now more forward.
My
tail used to be 20 Kg, it is now 13 kg.
That brings the CoG 26 cm from the leading edge, where it should be rather
36
cm. That brings me forward of the allowed limit. :-(
To change that, I'll need, at least, 4 kg in the tail. Man, I'd hate to fly
with a lead weight in the tail!
What went wrong? Well, nothing, but the Jab is more forward than the 582.
About
6 cm.
Any idea how I can get my CoG in the right place without moving the battery
which is now on the cockpit side of the firewall?
Cheers,
Michel
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Florida Flying |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mdkitfox@aol.com
Kurt,
I looked at about a half a dozen places in Florida. I've had of the snow,
cold, and ice. Since I fly for Delta Connection Carrier, ASA, (I will have to
retire in about 18 months.) I needed a place near the same airports. Looked
all over and came to the conclusion that Spruce Creek was about as good as
it gets. Centrally located and affordable, but no float plane capability.
Looked at Love's landing, Leeward and a few others. They all offered a runway,
but not much else, and they were in the same price range as Spruce Creek.
I ended up buying a new home at Spruce Creek. It's not a taxiway home, but
it is on the golf course with a garage big enough for a folded wing Fox, and
just 4 homes from a taxiway. It's currently being rented out until I can
move down there.
Be glad to talk to you if you want 301-502-8029 (cell) 301-805-9584 (home)
By the way, after I move down there, the party's at my place, all Foxes
invited!
Do Not Archive
Rick Weiss
Series V Speedster N39RW, 912S
Message 12
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| Subject: | Weight and balance - Jabiru/KF3 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
Michel...I moved the battery behind the seat and used #4 welding cable to
hook it up. The weight of the battery and the cables should get you close to
where you want to be...the middle of the CG range I would think...although
I'm slightly forward of middle CG. It wasn't a lot of trouble to move.
Steve Cooper
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel
Verheughe
Subject: Kitfox-List: Weight and balance - Jabiru/KF3
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Hello guys,
Today, I did the W&B with the new Jabiru 2200 on my Kitfox 3. The new
cowling
was in place, although it is not painted yet. Oil was in the engine but no
fuel.
The good news is that the plane (previously with a Rotax 582) weight only
two
kilos more than before. The bad news is that the weight is now more forward.
My
tail used to be 20 Kg, it is now 13 kg.
That brings the CoG 26 cm from the leading edge, where it should be rather
36
cm. That brings me forward of the allowed limit. :-(
To change that, I'll need, at least, 4 kg in the tail. Man, I'd hate to fly
with a lead weight in the tail!
What went wrong? Well, nothing, but the Jab is more forward than the 582.
About
6 cm.
Any idea how I can get my CoG in the right place without moving the battery
which is now on the cockpit side of the firewall?
Cheers,
Michel
Message 13
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| Subject: | Wing covering...scallop or no scallop? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Flier" <flier@sbcglobal.net>
I did lace. You don't polytak the fabric to the top ribs before shrinking.
If you've applied a coat of polytak to the top capstrip and let it DRY, then
installed and shrunk the fabric (it's loose over all the ribs), when you
apply the brushcoat of polybrush, the fabric is going to stick to the ribs
anyway as the wet polybrush will cause the underlying polytak to grab. You
don't apply wet polytak when applying the fabric to the top though (which is
what you havta do for the bottom due to the camber). The capstrips on the
Kitfox are wide and sufficient to hold the fabric with adhesive only. I
just like the looks of ribstitching and it does offer greater insurance.
Once the fabric is shrunk and the Polybrush applied, the fabric is basically
adhered to the capstrips anyway even without polytak being brushed and dried
first. Actually, I adjusted my the lay of my false ribs through the fabric
after it was shrunk then the polybrush holds'em nice and tight...
Regards,
Ted
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lynn
Matteson
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wing covering...scallop or no scallop?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Ok, I see what the reasoning is now for the scalloping...not so much
for a strength issue, but for appearances.
Now on the polytak on the top ribs issue, PF clearly states "if you
plan to rib lace....DO NOT cement the fabric to the top surface
ribs"...this is on page 97 of the PF manual, Revision 20, in the
appendix on concave-bottom wings. In my phone conversation with PF
yesterday, the tech also reiterated this point. They want the fabric to
float during the rib lacing process.
Ted, did you rib lace? I can see the polytak being applied to the top
of the ribs if rib lacing is not done, but following PF's advice to NOT
polytak the upper-rib capstrips seems right, as they are the people who
should know. I'm not doubting your advice, just trying to clarify.
Lynn
On Saturday, January 29, 2005, at 09:44 AM, Flier wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Flier" <flier@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Lynn,
>
> I think you're talking about wrapping the lower fabric all the way
> around
> the front spar to gain the 3/4 attachment. To do this you would have
> to cut
> the material to lay in between the top ribs and false ribs. If I
> recall I
> did this. The thing it will do for you is you won't leave a line down
> the
> length of the leading edge that shows through to the top fabric.
> Anytime
> you overlap the fabric there will be a line left showing.
> Scalloping like
> that leaves only trim lines across the ribs visible once the top fabric
> overlaps. Looks nicer. On a large area like that the 3/4 or better
> wrap is
> not as much of a safety issue but clearly anytime you have more
> contact area
> it's a better thing.
>
> On the top ribs, coat them with polytak and let it dry. Apply the top
> fabric and shrink, then come back across the capstrips with heavily
> thinned
> polytak or just MEK to activate the polytak underneath the fabric and
> secure
> it to the capstrip. On the bottom fabric, make sure you get really
> good
> adhesion when you first apply the fabric else it can pull away from the
> camber.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ted
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Wing covering...scallop or no scallop? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
AHA! Now it get it...duh. In re-reading the concave-bottom wing section
of the PF manual, where it says "brush the lower capstrips ONLY..." and
later "...DO NOT cement the fabric to the top surface ribs", they could
have been a little more clear in their explanation by adding something
like: "these top surface ribs will become cemented down by the later
application of polybrush." I need these little assurances along the
way...thanks, Ted, for the explanation. I kept reading these "do not's"
and "only's" and so on, and was getting pretty paranoid about the whole
thing.
Lynn
On Saturday, January 29, 2005, at 04:29 PM, Flier wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Flier" <flier@sbcglobal.net>
>
> I did lace. You don't polytak the fabric to the top ribs before
> shrinking.
> If you've applied a coat of polytak to the top capstrip and let it
> DRY, then
> installed and shrunk the fabric (it's loose over all the ribs), when
> you
> apply the brushcoat of polybrush, the fabric is going to stick to the
> ribs
> anyway as the wet polybrush will cause the underlying polytak to grab.
> You
> don't apply wet polytak when applying the fabric to the top though
> (which is
> what you havta do for the bottom due to the camber). The capstrips on
> the
> Kitfox are wide and sufficient to hold the fabric with adhesive only.
> I
> just like the looks of ribstitching and it does offer greater
> insurance.
> Once the fabric is shrunk and the Polybrush applied, the fabric is
> basically
> adhered to the capstrips anyway even without polytak being brushed and
> dried
> first. Actually, I adjusted my the lay of my false ribs through the
> fabric
> after it was shrunk then the polybrush holds'em nice and tight...
>
> Regards,
>
> Ted
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lynn
> Matteson
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wing covering...scallop or no scallop?
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> Ok, I see what the reasoning is now for the scalloping...not so much
> for a strength issue, but for appearances.
>
> Now on the polytak on the top ribs issue, PF clearly states "if you
> plan to rib lace....DO NOT cement the fabric to the top surface
> ribs"...this is on page 97 of the PF manual, Revision 20, in the
> appendix on concave-bottom wings. In my phone conversation with PF
> yesterday, the tech also reiterated this point. They want the fabric to
> float during the rib lacing process.
>
> Ted, did you rib lace? I can see the polytak being applied to the top
> of the ribs if rib lacing is not done, but following PF's advice to NOT
> polytak the upper-rib capstrips seems right, as they are the people who
> should know. I'm not doubting your advice, just trying to clarify.
> Lynn
>
> On Saturday, January 29, 2005, at 09:44 AM, Flier wrote:
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Flier" <flier@sbcglobal.net>
>>
>> Lynn,
>>
>> I think you're talking about wrapping the lower fabric all the way
>> around
>> the front spar to gain the 3/4 attachment. To do this you would have
>> to cut
>> the material to lay in between the top ribs and false ribs. If I
>> recall I
>> did this. The thing it will do for you is you won't leave a line down
>> the
>> length of the leading edge that shows through to the top fabric.
>> Anytime
>> you overlap the fabric there will be a line left showing.
>> Scalloping like
>> that leaves only trim lines across the ribs visible once the top
>> fabric
>> overlaps. Looks nicer. On a large area like that the 3/4 or better
>> wrap is
>> not as much of a safety issue but clearly anytime you have more
>> contact area
>> it's a better thing.
>>
>> On the top ribs, coat them with polytak and let it dry. Apply the top
>> fabric and shrink, then come back across the capstrips with heavily
>> thinned
>> polytak or just MEK to activate the polytak underneath the fabric and
>> secure
>> it to the capstrip. On the bottom fabric, make sure you get really
>> good
>> adhesion when you first apply the fabric else it can pull away from
>> the
>> camber.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Ted
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Florida Flying |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles <wliles@bayou.com>
Yes indeed. Spruce Creek is a very nice place. My cousin Tommy lived
there when he flew for TWA and I would visit on occassion to fly his
Champ. Travolta lived there then just a few houses away. Very nice
place. You're going to like it a lot.
Jerry Liles
Mdkitfox@aol.com wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mdkitfox@aol.com
>
>Kurt,
>
>I looked at about a half a dozen places in Florida. I've had of the snow,
>cold, and ice. Since I fly for Delta Connection Carrier, ASA, (I will have to
>retire in about 18 months.) I needed a place near the same airports. Looked
>all over and came to the conclusion that Spruce Creek was about as good as
>it gets. Centrally located and affordable, but no float plane capability.
>Looked at Love's landing, Leeward and a few others. They all offered a runway,
>but not much else, and they were in the same price range as Spruce Creek.
>
>I ended up buying a new home at Spruce Creek. It's not a taxiway home, but
>it is on the golf course with a garage big enough for a folded wing Fox, and
>just 4 homes from a taxiway. It's currently being rented out until I can
>move down there.
>
>Be glad to talk to you if you want 301-502-8029 (cell) 301-805-9584 (home)
>
>By the way, after I move down there, the party's at my place, all Foxes
>invited!
>
>Do Not Archive
>Rick Weiss
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Wing covering...scallop or no scallop? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Flier" <flier@sbcglobal.net>
No prob Lynn. Don't sweat it. Polyfiber is pretty forgiving -- but I know
how you feel. I've been covering my Nieuport recently which is why I have
it in mind. It's been 8 yrs since I covered my IV and it's stood up
extremely well. I really like the PF process!
Regards,
Ted
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lynn
Matteson
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wing covering...scallop or no scallop?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
AHA! Now it get it...duh. In re-reading the concave-bottom wing section
of the PF manual, where it says "brush the lower capstrips ONLY..." and
later "...DO NOT cement the fabric to the top surface ribs", they could
have been a little more clear in their explanation by adding something
like: "these top surface ribs will become cemented down by the later
application of polybrush." I need these little assurances along the
way...thanks, Ted, for the explanation. I kept reading these "do not's"
and "only's" and so on, and was getting pretty paranoid about the whole
thing.
Lynn
On Saturday, January 29, 2005, at 04:29 PM, Flier wrote:
Message 17
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| Subject: | Weight and Balance |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Gilliatt <jim.gilliatt@att.net>
Michel,
I have a friend with a Kitfox III and a Jabiru 2200. He hasn't flown it
yet, but his weight and balance came out with figures showing a CG at
11.5 inches from the leading edge. It was done by putting a 26 pound
batter behind the seat. If you want to talk to him for more details, he
is at foxtrat3859@aol.com.
Jim Gilliatt
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Wing covering...scallop or no scallop? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
One more thing, Ted...the Poly-fiber rep in my area told me that when
rib lacing the Kitfox, I only needed to lace from the trailing edge
forward to where the false ribs end, Further forward than that, the
surfaces of the top and bottom of the wing are under pressure, and
lacing there is not required, and in fact, undesirable because the
slope of the surfaces would cause the lacing to want to "slide the
fabric down the curve of the rib." This sounds like it makes
sense...more for the pressure theory than the sliding fabric
theory...to me. Thoughts?
Lynn
On Saturday, January 29, 2005, at 07:49 PM, Flier wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Flier" <flier@sbcglobal.net>
>
> No prob Lynn. Don't sweat it. Polyfiber is pretty forgiving -- but I
> know
> how you feel. I've been covering my Nieuport recently which is why I
> have
> it in mind. It's been 8 yrs since I covered my IV and it's stood up
> extremely well. I really like the PF process!
>
> Regards,
>
> Ted
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lynn
> Matteson
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wing covering...scallop or no scallop?
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> AHA! Now it get it...duh. In re-reading the concave-bottom wing section
> of the PF manual, where it says "brush the lower capstrips ONLY..." and
> later "...DO NOT cement the fabric to the top surface ribs", they could
> have been a little more clear in their explanation by adding something
> like: "these top surface ribs will become cemented down by the later
> application of polybrush." I need these little assurances along the
> way...thanks, Ted, for the explanation. I kept reading these "do not's"
> and "only's" and so on, and was getting pretty paranoid about the whole
> thing.
>
> Lynn
> On Saturday, January 29, 2005, at 04:29 PM, Flier wrote:
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Wing covering...scallop or no scallop? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Flier" <flier@sbcglobal.net>
Hey Lynn, if the Polyfiber guy said so then I sure ain't in a position to
argue! :
)
I evenly spaced mine all the way if I remember from about 3 or 4 inches aft
of the front spar. Has worked fine for me. I used regular round lacing but
ended up using the flat on the Nieuport and I think I'd have used it on the
Kitfox if I'd had it. I thought it might be a pain to work with but it's
not at all.
Enjoy. Fabric is when the thing really starts looking like a plane!
Ted
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lynn
Matteson
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wing covering...scallop or no scallop?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
One more thing, Ted...the Poly-fiber rep in my area told me that when
rib lacing the Kitfox, I only needed to lace from the trailing edge
forward to where the false ribs end, Further forward than that, the
surfaces of the top and bottom of the wing are under pressure, and
lacing there is not required, and in fact, undesirable because the
slope of the surfaces would cause the lacing to want to "slide the
fabric down the curve of the rib." This sounds like it makes
sense...more for the pressure theory than the sliding fabric
theory...to me. Thoughts?
Lynn
On Saturday, January 29, 2005, at 07:49 PM, Flier wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Flier" <flier@sbcglobal.net>
>
> No prob Lynn. Don't sweat it. Polyfiber is pretty forgiving -- but I
> know
> how you feel. I've been covering my Nieuport recently which is why I
> have
> it in mind. It's been 8 yrs since I covered my IV and it's stood up
> extremely well. I really like the PF process!
>
> Regards,
>
> Ted
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Engine choices moreo n NSI wieght |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: John Larsen <jopatco@mindspring.com>
2;28 TO 1
Rick wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
>
>
>What reduction drive gears are you using?
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Larsen
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choices moreo n NSI wieght
>
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: John Larsen <jopatco@mindspring.com>
>
>Hello Kurt;
> When I fly the under cambered wing, the plane will take off
>.................
>
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Wing covering...scallop or no scallop? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
...ya, but it was the "new" rep that said it! ;) Check with Norm
Dowthit...I'm certain you'll get a different answer...and Norm and Ray wrote
the book.
Steve Cooper
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Flier
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Wing covering...scallop or no scallop?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Flier" <flier@sbcglobal.net>
Hey Lynn, if the Polyfiber guy said so then I sure ain't in a position to
argue! :
)
I evenly spaced mine all the way if I remember from about 3 or 4 inches aft
of the front spar. Has worked fine for me. I used regular round lacing but
ended up using the flat on the Nieuport and I think I'd have used it on the
Kitfox if I'd had it. I thought it might be a pain to work with but it's
not at all.
Enjoy. Fabric is when the thing really starts looking like a plane!
Ted
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lynn
Matteson
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wing covering...scallop or no scallop?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
One more thing, Ted...the Poly-fiber rep in my area told me that when
rib lacing the Kitfox, I only needed to lace from the trailing edge
forward to where the false ribs end, Further forward than that, the
surfaces of the top and bottom of the wing are under pressure, and
lacing there is not required, and in fact, undesirable because the
slope of the surfaces would cause the lacing to want to "slide the
fabric down the curve of the rib." This sounds like it makes
sense...more for the pressure theory than the sliding fabric
theory...to me. Thoughts?
Lynn
On Saturday, January 29, 2005, at 07:49 PM, Flier wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Flier" <flier@sbcglobal.net>
>
> No prob Lynn. Don't sweat it. Polyfiber is pretty forgiving -- but I
> know
> how you feel. I've been covering my Nieuport recently which is why I
> have
> it in mind. It's been 8 yrs since I covered my IV and it's stood up
> extremely well. I really like the PF process!
>
> Regards,
>
> Ted
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Weight and balance - Jabiru/KF3 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tom Jones <tomfromlapine@peoplepc.com>
> That brings the CoG 26 cm from the leading edge, where it should be rather 36
> cm. That brings me forward of the allowed limit. :-(
> To change that, I'll need, at least, 4 kg in the tail. Man, I'd hate to fly
> with a lead weight in the tail!
Michael,
Is this new CG an "Empty CG"? If it is, a pilot in the seat will move
the CG back a little. Try to think of moving some existing
weight...preferably from forward of the CG limits...back a little before
adding weight to the tail. Add weight in the tail as a last resort only!
Tom Jones
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