---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 02/03/05: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:50 AM - SV: Battery and CoG (Michel Verheughe) 2. 08:24 AM - Wing folding (Kerry Skyring) 3. 08:56 AM - Re: AOA () 4. 08:59 AM - Re: Battery and CoG (Steve Cooper) 5. 09:21 AM - any Kitfox-builders near Geneve? (Koen Van de Kerckhove) 6. 09:23 AM - Re: Wing folding (Fox5flyer) 7. 09:38 AM - Re: Battery and CoG (Steve Zakreski) 8. 10:50 AM - Re: Wing folding (flier) 9. 11:34 AM - Re: Wing folding (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 10. 12:39 PM - Re: Wing folding (Gunn, Michael (Space Technology)) 11. 12:50 PM - Re: Wing folding (Steve Cooper) 12. 01:11 PM - Re: Battery and CoG (Michel Verheughe) 13. 01:39 PM - Re: Battery and CoG (Steve Cooper) 14. 02:26 PM - Re: AOA (John King) 15. 02:55 PM - Center of gravity (Michel Verheughe) 16. 04:05 PM - Kitlog pro???? (kirk hull) 17. 04:16 PM - Re: Kitlog pro???? (Steve Cooper) 18. 07:33 PM - Re: Kitlog pro???? (Ray Kurian) 19. 08:08 PM - Re: AOA (Rick) 20. 10:28 PM - Re: Wing folding (Guy Buchanan) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:50:49 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: Battery and CoG --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Thanks for your answers, Steve, Fred, Lowell and Rex. > From: Steve Cooper [spdrflyr@earthlink.net] > I'm running an Odyssey PC625 dry cell. Yes, I will get an Odyssey battery, guys. Yesterday I wrote to Rex, in a direct email, that Norway is a small country and it is not easy to find special items. As an example, I had to go to Sweden to find 3130 steel pipes. But, this morning, I typed Odyssey in a Norwegian search engine and yes, they are here, in Oslo! So, I picked the phone, called them and, after explaining my problem, they recommended the PC 680 model, that is pretty close to your PC 625, Steve. Thanks again, everyone and especially Rex that has sent me direct a lot of info about batteries and Odyssey. What a great list! So, I am left with one question, guys: In your opinion, what are the pros and cons to have the CG* within the limits but rather forward of the middle point? Thanks in advance, Michel * I write CoG (center OF gravity) from my yacht design days, but I see that most of you write CG, which I will now adopt. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:24:41 AM PST US From: "Kerry Skyring" Subject: Kitfox-List: Wing folding --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kerry Skyring" The time is approaching when we will mount the wings and start connecting things up. As space is limited in our hangar we will probably have to fold the wings again fairly soon after putting them on. Over a year ago I printed off a check list from Kurt S. for wing folding. (Pause here to mention what a great list this is because of things like Kurt's check list.) Kurt's list refers to a couple of devices we do not have. Here are the points.. (and keep in mind we have never wing-folded a Kitfox or seen one wingfolded)... 13. Install wing holdback fitting to tail 14. Install wing leading edge support rod. 15. Install flaperon support. Question is, where do we get these 3 devices? Are they so simple that we just make them? Are there any pics out there? Thank you very much in advance. Kerry The S5 Outback - Vienna. > > Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:56:42 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: AOA --> Kitfox-List message posted by: > > From: "Rick" > Date: 2005/02/02 Wed PM 10:49:06 CST > To: "Kitfox" > Subject: Kitfox-List: AOA> > Rick, I haven't yet flown mine yet, but there are others on the list that have the same unit that I have. I've got Elbie's RiteAngle IIIb unit. It's VERY well made. Support has been exemplary. John King I know has one on his model 6. As for the numbers...Try getting those from John. His model 6 should be pretty close to your airplane. His engine is lighter (912 vs. your Soob), but regardless, the AOA numbers should be fairly close. RonSeries 6...still building. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:59:45 AM PST US From: "Steve Cooper" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Battery and CoG --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" I will chime in on your CG question. I have experimented with mine all over the range. My CG is currently slightly forward of center area. This position gives good stable flight characteristics and especially a pleasant and predictable glide while in the flair. For a while I had the CG almost to the rear limit. Control was VERY crisp, but, I really had to be on the ball with the throttle during the flair because the aircraft exhibited a tendency to suddenly drop out. Not a good thing for short field operations as it would extend the landing by quite a margin. I would begin at that point...after you wring out the bird then you can begin playing with a 5 lb. chunk of lead. Move it around a bit to see how the airplane feels. Steve Cooper -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel Verheughe Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: Battery and CoG --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Thanks for your answers, Steve, Fred, Lowell and Rex. > From: Steve Cooper [spdrflyr@earthlink.net] > I'm running an Odyssey PC625 dry cell. Yes, I will get an Odyssey battery, guys. Yesterday I wrote to Rex, in a direct email, that Norway is a small country and it is not easy to find special items. As an example, I had to go to Sweden to find 3130 steel pipes. But, this morning, I typed Odyssey in a Norwegian search engine and yes, they are here, in Oslo! So, I picked the phone, called them and, after explaining my problem, they recommended the PC 680 model, that is pretty close to your PC 625, Steve. Thanks again, everyone and especially Rex that has sent me direct a lot of info about batteries and Odyssey. What a great list! So, I am left with one question, guys: In your opinion, what are the pros and cons to have the CG* within the limits but rather forward of the middle point? Thanks in advance, Michel * I write CoG (center OF gravity) from my yacht design days, but I see that most of you write CG, which I will now adopt. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:21:57 AM PST US From: "Koen Van de Kerckhove" Subject: Kitfox-List: any Kitfox-builders near Geneve? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Koen Van de Kerckhove" Hallo, I am visiting Geneve next monday. Will be busy before noon, but will be free the afternoon and evening. I hope ... and pray ... to be able to visit something that is related to airplanes. But, no museum of airplanes. Grrr. So, now I am searching for persons who lives near Geneve and who are building a airplane. Somebody told me that there are Kitfox-builders near Geneve. Can I visit you and your airplane that evening, pleeeeaaaase? Who am I? I am Koen Van de Kerckhove, the webmaster of the "Nest of Dragons" site. Site is dedicated to the design and history of weird designs. Also about low budget airplanes. Each time I see some kind of construction I get a wave of inspiration to sketch some new concepts myself. I am wondering what kind of wave seeing a Kitfox-airplane ... and builder will give me. Keep that brain spawning wings, Koen ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:23:42 AM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wing folding --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" Kerry, for routine folding while working on the airplane you don't really need the leading edge support rods. Those are mainly for transport. It's a little easier on the pivot points if you remove most of the gas though. The flaperon supports can be most anything you have around. I just use bungies with some padding between the flaperons and rudder. For transport I'd come up with something a bit more substantial. The wing holdback brackets at the tail should have come with the airplane kit. You sure you don't have them? Deke > The time is approaching when we will mount the wings and start connecting > things up. As space is > limited in our hangar we will probably have to fold the wings again fairly > soon after putting them on. > Over a year ago I printed off a check list from Kurt S. for wing folding. > (Pause here to mention what > a great list this is because of things like Kurt's check list.) > > Kurt's list refers to a couple of devices we do not have. Here are the > points.. (and keep in mind we have never wing-folded a Kitfox or seen one > wingfolded)... > > 13. Install wing holdback fitting to tail > > 14. Install wing leading edge support rod. > > 15. Install flaperon support. > > Question is, where do we get these 3 devices? Are they so simple that we > just make them? > Are there any pics out there? Thank you very much in advance. > > Kerry > The S5 Outback - Vienna. > > > > > > > > Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! > http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:38:01 AM PST US From: Steve Zakreski Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Battery and CoG --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski Now tell me, if while flying, I tossed that 5 lb. ball of lead into the air, would it be affecting the CG or not? ;-) SteveZ Calgary -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve Cooper Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Battery and CoG --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" I will chime in on your CG question. I have experimented with mine all over the range. My CG is currently slightly forward of center area. This position gives good stable flight characteristics and especially a pleasant and predictable glide while in the flair. For a while I had the CG almost to the rear limit. Control was VERY crisp, but, I really had to be on the ball with the throttle during the flair because the aircraft exhibited a tendency to suddenly drop out. Not a good thing for short field operations as it would extend the landing by quite a margin. I would begin at that point...after you wring out the bird then you can begin playing with a 5 lb. chunk of lead. Move it around a bit to see how the airplane feels. Steve Cooper -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel Verheughe Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: Battery and CoG --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Thanks for your answers, Steve, Fred, Lowell and Rex. > From: Steve Cooper [spdrflyr@earthlink.net] > I'm running an Odyssey PC625 dry cell. Yes, I will get an Odyssey battery, guys. Yesterday I wrote to Rex, in a direct email, that Norway is a small country and it is not easy to find special items. As an example, I had to go to Sweden to find 3130 steel pipes. But, this morning, I typed Odyssey in a Norwegian search engine and yes, they are here, in Oslo! So, I picked the phone, called them and, after explaining my problem, they recommended the PC 680 model, that is pretty close to your PC 625, Steve. Thanks again, everyone and especially Rex that has sent me direct a lot of info about batteries and Odyssey. What a great list! So, I am left with one question, guys: In your opinion, what are the pros and cons to have the CG* within the limits but rather forward of the middle point? Thanks in advance, Michel * I write CoG (center OF gravity) from my yacht design days, but I see that most of you write CG, which I will now adopt. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:50:54 AM PST US From: "flier" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wing folding --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" Here's a side pic of my IV's tail that shows the wing holdback struts (blue). They should be in your kit. http://www.foxflier.com/kitfox/Trailer/HPIM0253.jpg The flaperons really only need to be kept from damaging the vert stab/rudder. I use the same setup on the vert stab as that on my horiz. stab to secure the elevator. 1" PVC pipes covered with pipe insulation as a cushion with a 1/4" carriage bolt and wing nut at the back pulling the two ends together. The pipe insulation keeps the flaperons away from the stab/rudder and protects the paint. The wing LE supports are shown here http://www.foxflier.com/kitfox/Trailer/HPIM0250.jpg I made'em out of EMT conduit. They've worked for years... Regards, Ted --- Original Message --- From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wing folding >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > >Kerry, for routine folding while working on the airplane you don't really >need the leading edge support rods. Those are mainly for transport. It's a >little easier on the pivot points if you remove most of the gas though. The >flaperon supports can be most anything you have around. I just use bungies >with some padding between the flaperons and rudder. For transport I'd come >up with something a bit more substantial. The wing holdback brackets at the >tail should have come with the airplane kit. You sure you don't have them? >Deke > >> The time is approaching when we will mount the wings and start connecting >> things up. As space is >> limited in our hangar we will probably have to fold the wings again fairly >> soon after putting them on. >> Over a year ago I printed off a check list from Kurt S. for wing folding. >> (Pause here to mention what >> a great list this is because of things like Kurt's check list.) >> >> Kurt's list refers to a couple of devices we do not have. Here are the >> points.. (and keep in mind we have never wing- folded a Kitfox or seen one >> wingfolded)... >> >> 13. Install wing holdback fitting to tail >> >> 14. Install wing leading edge support rod. >> >> 15. Install flaperon support. >> >> Question is, where do we get these 3 devices? Are they so simple that we >> just make them? >> Are there any pics out there? Thank you very much in advance. >> >> Kerry >> The S5 Outback - Vienna. >> >> >> > >> > >> >> Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! >> http://search.msn.click- url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ >> >> > > >_- ====================================================== =============== Contributions any other Forums. >_- ====================================================== =============== http://www.matronics.com/subscription http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list http://www.matronics.com/archives http://www.matronics.com/photoshare list http://www.matronics.com/emaillists http://www.matronics.com/contribution >_- ====================================================== =============== > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:34:18 AM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wing folding --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com In a message dated 2/3/2005 11:25:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, kerryskyring@hotmail.com writes: <<13. Install wing holdback fitting to tail>> Should be in kit. two rods about 3/8" dia and 2' long or so.. You really don't need these if the plane is just sitting in the hanger. They will keep the wings from swinging. <<14. Install wing leading edge support rod.>> These are used only when hauling the airplane on a trailer. Keeps the wings from flopping <<15. Install flaperon support.>> For hanger use, just put some towels or something to keep things from rubbing. IMHO, you have other concerns when first folding the wings. 1. If you have the room, I'd recommend raising the tail to a near in-flight position. That way, when you pull the wing pins the wing will stay right where it is and not swing back on it own weight. If you must leave the tailwheel on the ground, get someone to help you on the first couple tries. When the wing starts back, go real slow and watch the flapperons area around the turtledeck area. You will have to move the flapperons very carefully to avoid banking them on the turtledeck attach points. Go very slow and it will become apparent. Once you get past that hurdle, gentle move the flapperons straight up as you continue to fold the wing back. Be careful during the first part. 2. If the tail wheel is on the floor, CHOCK the front of the mains. The weight of the wing trying to swing back while you hold it can cause the plane to roll forward. This makes you lose control while you're trying to do things slowly. 3. Make sure the flapperon connect tubes (that you disconnected under the turtledeck) don't get caught up in the flapperon horns when you start the fold. 4. Train your helper at the wing tip to do absolutely nothing until you say so. I have problems with the helper trying to swing the wing back too fast, sometimes they want to lift up on the wing. All they have to do is stand there and keep the wing from folding back while you make sure everything clears. Just go slow, very slow Don Smythe ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:39:41 PM PST US Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Wing folding From: "Gunn, Michael (Space Technology)" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gunn, Michael (Space Technology)" Also be careful not to kink the fuel lines or vent line near the pivot points. As mentioned before on the list, you can't have much fuel in the tanks or it will come out of the fillers when the wings are back and the tailwheel is on the ground. Mike N5291R -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wing folding --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com In a message dated 2/3/2005 11:25:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, kerryskyring@hotmail.com writes: <<13. Install wing holdback fitting to tail>> Should be in kit. two rods about 3/8" dia and 2' long or so.. You really don't need these if the plane is just sitting in the hanger. They will keep the wings from swinging. <<14. Install wing leading edge support rod.>> These are used only when hauling the airplane on a trailer. Keeps the wings from flopping <<15. Install flaperon support.>> For hanger use, just put some towels or something to keep things from rubbing. IMHO, you have other concerns when first folding the wings. 1. If you have the room, I'd recommend raising the tail to a near in-flight position. That way, when you pull the wing pins the wing will stay right where it is and not swing back on it own weight. If you must leave the tailwheel on the ground, get someone to help you on the first couple tries. When the wing starts back, go real slow and watch the flapperons area around the turtledeck area. You will have to move the flapperons very carefully to avoid banking them on the turtledeck attach points. Go very slow and it will become apparent. Once you get past that hurdle, gentle move the flapperons straight up as you continue to fold the wing back. Be careful during the first part. 2. If the tail wheel is on the floor, CHOCK the front of the mains. The weight of the wing trying to swing back while you hold it can cause the plane to roll forward. This makes you lose control while you're trying to do things slowly. 3. Make sure the flapperon connect tubes (that you disconnected under the turtledeck) don't get caught up in the flapperon horns when you start the fold. 4. Train your helper at the wing tip to do absolutely nothing until you say so. I have problems with the helper trying to swing the wing back too fast, sometimes they want to lift up on the wing. All they have to do is stand there and keep the wing from folding back while you make sure everything clears. Just go slow, very slow Don Smythe ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:50:23 PM PST US From: "Steve Cooper" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Wing folding --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" ...don't ya just hate that? I just don't fold mine...I hate to have the fuel run out of the tanks. Steve Cooper -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gunn, Michael (Space Technology) Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Wing folding --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gunn, Michael (Space Technology)" Also be careful not to kink the fuel lines or vent line near the pivot points. As mentioned before on the list, you can't have much fuel in the tanks or it will come out of the fillers when the wings are back and the tailwheel is on the ground. Mike N5291R -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wing folding --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com In a message dated 2/3/2005 11:25:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, kerryskyring@hotmail.com writes: <<13. Install wing holdback fitting to tail>> Should be in kit. two rods about 3/8" dia and 2' long or so.. You really don't need these if the plane is just sitting in the hanger. They will keep the wings from swinging. <<14. Install wing leading edge support rod.>> These are used only when hauling the airplane on a trailer. Keeps the wings from flopping <<15. Install flaperon support.>> For hanger use, just put some towels or something to keep things from rubbing. IMHO, you have other concerns when first folding the wings. 1. If you have the room, I'd recommend raising the tail to a near in-flight position. That way, when you pull the wing pins the wing will stay right where it is and not swing back on it own weight. If you must leave the tailwheel on the ground, get someone to help you on the first couple tries. When the wing starts back, go real slow and watch the flapperons area around the turtledeck area. You will have to move the flapperons very carefully to avoid banking them on the turtledeck attach points. Go very slow and it will become apparent. Once you get past that hurdle, gentle move the flapperons straight up as you continue to fold the wing back. Be careful during the first part. 2. If the tail wheel is on the floor, CHOCK the front of the mains. The weight of the wing trying to swing back while you hold it can cause the plane to roll forward. This makes you lose control while you're trying to do things slowly. 3. Make sure the flapperon connect tubes (that you disconnected under the turtledeck) don't get caught up in the flapperon horns when you start the fold. 4. Train your helper at the wing tip to do absolutely nothing until you say so. I have problems with the helper trying to swing the wing back too fast, sometimes they want to lift up on the wing. All they have to do is stand there and keep the wing from folding back while you make sure everything clears. Just go slow, very slow Don Smythe ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:11:19 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Battery and CoG --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Steve Cooper wrote: > ...after > you wring out the bird then you can begin playing with a 5 lb. chunk of > lead. Move it around a bit to see how the airplane feels. That's a good idea, Steve. You see, when I bought my plane, I knew nothing about planes but I could see that she was built by someone who knew his business and I didn't dare to experiement anything. But now that I get warmer and even call myself a half-builder ... :-) I might just do that and experiement with a lead ballast. ... and no, SteveZ, I won't toss it in the air! :-) Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:39:17 PM PST US From: "Steve Cooper" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Battery and CoG --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" Just make sure you keep the CG within the CG range ok Michael? Steve -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Battery and CoG --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Steve Cooper wrote: > ...after > you wring out the bird then you can begin playing with a 5 lb. chunk of > lead. Move it around a bit to see how the airplane feels. That's a good idea, Steve. You see, when I bought my plane, I knew nothing about planes but I could see that she was built by someone who knew his business and I didn't dare to experiement anything. But now that I get warmer and even call myself a half-builder ... :-) I might just do that and experiement with a lead ballast. ... and no, SteveZ, I won't toss it in the air! :-) Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:26:39 PM PST US From: John King Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: AOA --> Kitfox-List message posted by: John King Rick, I have the RiteAngle III AOA system installed on my Series 6. You have to calibrate the system to your particular aircraft as configured. There are five panel mounted LED's that display aircraft attitude up to the time of stall (three green, one yellow and one red). It is up to you to establish the airspeed for the various LED's. I chose to calibrated mine so that the first Green LED comes on at an IAS of 60 mph. The other four LED's are calibrated for lesser airspeeds as you approach stall. My Red LED comes on just prior to stall. I use this to set up my landing approach speeds around the pattern all the way to touch down . A good landing occurs when the Red LED comes on just before stall when my wheels are a couple inches from the runway. Oh yes, there is also a audio female voice in your head sets when the Yellow LED (Warning, Warning, Warning) and the Red LED (Stall, Stall, Stall) illuminates. You have the ability to make the various LED's come on at any desired airspeed, but they have to be a decreasing sequence of numbers. The actual numbers I chose for my system are now at the airport, so they are not now handy. If you want them please specify and I will get them for you. later -- John King Warrenton, VA Rick wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" > >Well I think I have finally decided to install an AOA angle of attack >indicator. Not sure which one yet. They range from very simple and >inexpensive to very complex and costly. I would appreciate some input from >those that have flow them in our real, little planes. I would especially be >interested in what angles were determined for best lift/glide, stall and so >on. I am a little fuzzy there. > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:55:00 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: Center of gravity --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Steve Cooper wrote: > Just make sure you keep the CG within the CG range ok Michael? Of course, Steve! I am more of a coward than a dare-devil, you know! :-) Seriously, I have - of course - tested different CG in my flight simulator, which I take with a big grain of salt! I am a coward but not a fool! :-) And the flight simulator, with the CG at the foremost point of the tolerance gives a plane that cannot make a three-point landing but that is much less prone to ground loop. On take-off, the tail will come up very early but the plane won't take off without me pulling the stick. In the air, it has less tendency to stall from one wing or the other and "mush down" straight on unpowered stall. Is this what I can expect from the real plane? One element I don't have to model a proper plane is the pitching moment. All airfoil definitions are with lift, drag and pitch moment coeficients. I have worked out drag and lift for my undercambered model 3 wing but I have no data about the pitch moment and I don't know how different it is from e.g. a more conventional NACA profile. Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:05:17 PM PST US From: "kirk hull" Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitlog pro???? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirk hull" Is anybody fimaliar with a product called "Kitlog Pro" ? As The chapter president of EAA chapter 612 in Kansas City I received a free down load of this product to give away as a door prise at our next meeting and was just wondering exactly what it was and if it was a quality product. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:16:09 PM PST US From: "Steve Cooper" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Kitlog pro???? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" By the name it sounds like a utility for keeping a builder's log. I did mine manually via computer...but something to arrange all the test and photos would have been nice too. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kirk hull Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitlog pro???? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirk hull" Is anybody fimaliar with a product called "Kitlog Pro" ? As The chapter president of EAA chapter 612 in Kansas City I received a free down load of this product to give away as a door prise at our next meeting and was just wondering exactly what it was and if it was a quality product. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:33:01 PM PST US From: "Ray Kurian" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitlog pro???? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ray Kurian" Kirk, I have been using it for a few years, and I really like it. Easy to use as a construction log, keeps track of what I've spent, has the forms built in for registration and everything. I'd recommend it to anyone building! Ray Kurian raykurian@earthlink.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "kirk hull" Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitlog pro???? > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirk hull" > > > Is anybody fimaliar with a product called "Kitlog Pro" ? > > As The chapter president of EAA chapter 612 in Kansas City I received a > free > down load of this product to give away as a door prise at our next meeting > and was just wondering exactly what it was and if it was a quality > product. > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:08:21 PM PST US From: "Rick" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: AOA --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" John, A bit confused. A normal state of mind for me lately. But I thought airspeed had noting to do with the stall AOA. I mean I know the plane has to be flying to stall, but I was told the stall always occurs at the same AOA regardless of speed. On the other hand I have also read a heavier plane will stall at a higher IAS than a light plane. Help me out here. Rick -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John King Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: AOA --> Kitfox-List message posted by: John King Rick, I have the RiteAngle III AOA system installed on my Series 6. You have to calibrate the system to your particular aircraft as configured. There are five panel mounted LED's that display aircraft attitude up to the time of stall (three green, one yellow and one red). It is up to you to establish the airspeed for the various LED's. I chose to calibrated mine so that the first Green LED comes on at an IAS of 60 mph. The other four LED's are calibrated for lesser airspeeds as you approach stall. My Red LED comes on just prior to stall. I use this to set up my landing approach speeds around the pattern all the way to touch down . A good landing occurs when the Red LED comes on just before stall when my wheels are a couple inches from the runway. Oh yes, there is also a audio female voice in your head sets when the Yellow LED (Warning, Warning, Warning) and the Red LED (Stall, Stall, Stall) illuminates. You have the ability to make the various LED's come on at any desired airspeed, but they have to be a decreasing sequence of numbers. The actual numbers I chose for my system are now at the airport, so they are not now handy. If you want them please specify and I will get them for you. later -- John King Warrenton, VA Rick wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" > >Well I think I have finally decided to install an AOA angle of attack >indicator. Not sure which one yet. They range from very simple and >inexpensive to very complex and costly. I would appreciate some input from >those that have flow them in our real, little planes. I would especially be >interested in what angles were determined for best lift/glide, stall and so >on. I am a little fuzzy there. > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:28:52 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Wing folding --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan At 12:49 PM 2/3/2005 -0600, Steve Cooper wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" > >...don't ya just hate that? I just don't fold mine...I hate to have the fuel >run out of the tanks. >Steve Cooper I was wondering if I might fabricate some vented caps with looong vertical tubes; long enough that the ends would be higher than the tank and therefore the fuel wouldn't run out. Do you think the caps would leak anyway? Or would the resulting tank pressure force fuel out elsewhere? I hate the thought of de-fueling every flight, as I intend to keep the aircraft in a trailer with the wings folded. Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.