Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:53 AM - Re: Skyfox Cowling (Jose M. Toro)
2. 03:01 AM - Re: Skyfox Cowling, Part 2 (Jose M. Toro)
3. 03:10 AM - SV: Skyfox Cowling (Michel Verheughe)
4. 04:51 AM - Wooden wing rib extensions-early Kitfox/Avid (Fox5flyer)
5. 05:03 AM - Battery (Mike Chaney)
6. 05:48 AM - Re: Avid problems-was KF fuel tanks (Maurice Fraser)
7. 06:16 AM - Wondering........ (hausding, sid)
8. 07:32 AM - Re: Battery (Fox5flyer)
9. 07:34 AM - Re: Battery (Rick)
10. 07:41 AM - Re: Battery (Jimmie Blackwell)
11. 07:42 AM - Re: transponder and fabric (Rick)
12. 08:15 AM - Re: Re-United with N728KF DO NOT ARCHIVE (robert.mcclintock)
13. 09:03 AM - Re: Avid problems-was KF fuel tanks (Steve Cooper)
14. 09:40 AM - Air/oil separator (Rick)
15. 10:14 AM - Re: Battery (kurt schrader)
16. 10:27 AM - Re: Air/oil separator (kurt schrader)
17. 10:29 AM - Re: Battery (John Perry)
18. 10:53 AM - Re: Battery (Steve Zakreski)
19. 11:09 AM - Re: Wondering........ (kurt schrader)
20. 01:05 PM - Re: elevator push/pull rod (Marco Menezes)
21. 02:02 PM - Re: Battery (Ted Palamarek)
22. 02:46 PM - Re: Battery (Giovanni Day)
23. 04:52 PM - Wheels and Tires (Kirk Martenson)
24. 05:28 PM - KF7 For Sale (Donna and Roger McConnell)
25. 05:51 PM - Re: KF7 For Sale (Jerry Deckard)
26. 05:52 PM - Batteries and chargers (Fox5flyer)
27. 05:55 PM - KF7 For Sale ATTENTION SKYSTAR (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
28. 06:21 PM - Re: KF7 For Sale (Don Pearsall)
29. 06:21 PM - KF7 For Sale (Fox5flyer)
30. 06:35 PM - Re: KF7 For Sale (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
31. 06:48 PM - Re: KF7 For Sale ATTENTION SKYSTAR (Rick)
32. 06:56 PM - Re: elevator push/pull rod (kirk hull)
33. 07:04 PM - Re: Wing folding (kirk hull)
34. 07:09 PM - Re: Avid problems-was KF fuel tanks (Jerry Liles)
35. 07:10 PM - The other side of the story: (Steve Cooper)
36. 07:15 PM - Re: Re: Subaru (kirk hull)
37. 07:21 PM - Re: Re: Subaru (Steve Cooper)
38. 07:32 PM - Re: KF7 For Sale (Don Pearsall)
39. 07:37 PM - Re: Avid problems-was KF fuel tanks (John Perry)
40. 07:40 PM - Re: KF7 For Sale ATTENTION SKYSTAR (Richard Hutson)
41. 07:54 PM - Re: KF7 For Sale (Clem Nichols)
42. 08:56 PM - Re: KF7 For Sale (Giovanni Day)
43. 09:01 PM - Re: KF7 For Sale (Steve Cooper)
44. 09:18 PM - Re: AOA (Giovanni Day)
45. 10:52 PM - Re: KF7 For Sale ATTENTION SKYSTAR (Guy Buchanan)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Skyfox Cowling |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
Steve:
Skyfox cowling can be purchased from a Jabiru dealer such as Suncoast Sportplanes
or US Jabiru. It should fit model II or III without modifications. It needs
to be modified for the model IV's slanted windshield. Dave Jalanti performed
that modification, and created a document explaining the modification. This
document can also be purchased from a Jabiru dealer.
I'm currently in the process of attaching this cowling to my model II. Since I
was using the traditional rounded cowling, I will need to modify the upper section
of the firewall. The Skyfox cowling is lower in the middle.
Jose
Steve Cooper <spdrflyr@earthlink.net> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper"
I know this has been discussed here before. Does anyone know a source for
this cowling?
Thanks,
Steve Cooper
Jose M. Toro, P.E.
Kitfox II/582
"A slow flight in the Caribbean..."
---------------------------------
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Skyfox Cowling, Part 2 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
Steve:
I realized from another posting that your plane is an Avid. Mark Shindler is using
the Skyfox cowling in his Avid. You can see pictures in his web site.
http://www.avidflyeraircraft.com/
Jose
Steve Cooper <spdrflyr@earthlink.net> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper"
I know this has been discussed here before. Does anyone know a source for
this cowling?
Thanks,
Steve Cooper
Jose M. Toro, P.E.
Kitfox II/582
"A slow flight in the Caribbean..."
---------------------------------
Message 3
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
> From: Jose M. Toro [jose_m_toro@yahoo.com]
> The Skyfox cowling is lower in the middle.
Yes, this is true. Like Jose, I tried to fit a Skyfox cowling on my model 3. But,
unlike Jose, I didn't because after close inspection, it turns out that I had
to modify my firewall, the windshield, the glareshield and the panel, in order
to accomodate for the rather flat top of the Skyfox cowling. Instead, I kept
the old aft cowling and moulded my own fore part to accomodate the Jabiru 2200.
It is now finished and it looks ... good, from a distance. At close hold,
I am dissapointed, I didn't manage to make a smooth surface. I will work more
on it, ... next winter. Now it is a great time to fly my new engine. I still
need the new battery placed aft of the seats and it will be time to call the inspector
for a test flight.
Cheers,
Michel
Message 4
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| Subject: | Wooden wing rib extensions-early Kitfox/Avid |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Kurt, the older Kitfoxes also used the wooden rib extensions for the
flaperons. I'm not sure at what point Kitfox was changed to metal, however
Avid hung onto them much longer. An upgrade was later supplied by Accipiter
that reinforced these older type with metal. My model II had the wooden
ones and was just fine, however I do recall a flutter failure somewhere in
Europe that spawned the mass balance weights. As I remember, those plywood
ribs were 10 ply and plenty strong so long as they were taken care of and
kept hangared. Not good to leave outside though as they were exposed and
would probably deteriorate over time. My advice to Maurice would be to look
very close at this area and if the airplane was stored out in the weather it
might be best to just move on.
Deke
>
> If I remember correctly, the Avid used wooden mounts
> for the flapperons. Aren't they extensions of the
> ribs? These were supposed to be weaker than the
> kitFox, especially the later models. You might
> inspect the flapperon attachments to see how they
> compare to KitFox mounts prior to purchase. I don't
> know if the later Avids had stronger mounts.
>
> Kurt S. S-5 KitFox
>
> --- Maurice Fraser <mfraser@gokenora.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi All
> >
> > I am looking at buying a Avid HH and have been
> > monitoring the avid group for a while now and a
> > getting a little concerned....
> ..........
> > Also the flaperon attach point at the wing rib on
> > the plane....
> > ........
>
> > Thanks in Advance
> > Maurice
>
>
Message 5
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Chaney <mdps_mc@SWOCA.NET>
I have a battery problem.
After sitting for two months my Jabiru Kitfox engine will not turn over. I
suspect the battery. I put a charger on the battery all night and it was
registering fully charged in terms of volts. But my limited knowledge of
batteries makes me wonder about the amps. Can you measure for amps and will
this tell you anything? Can the volts be high and the amps be low. I also
had a trickle charger on the battery for an extended period of time and
someone told me that may not do the battery any good either.
This could be as simple as a connection somewhere a tiny bit corroded. The
battery does turn the enging but very, very slowly. This battery is also
three years old.
I apologize it this is an elementary question but what the heck, that's
what this forum is for.
Mike Chaney
Message 6
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| Subject: | Avid problems-was KF fuel tanks |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Maurice Fraser" <mfraser@gokenora.com>
What did you treat them with?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve Cooper
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Avid problems-was KF fuel tanks
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
"Treated" :)
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Cooper
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Avid problems-was KF fuel tanks
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
I have one of the last Mark IV kits produced by Avid. The flapperon
attachment point is still the end of the wooden rib. I took great care to
finish these in the appropriate manner. I treaded mine according to the book
along with UV protection and paint. The system works pretty well. The only
failure I know of was an Avid that was kept under a tarp in a tropical
location somewhere. Water ran down inside the wing and collected at each rib
tip causing rot. A portion of the flapperon separated in flight. They are a
significant part of my pre-flight inspection. The only other failures I know
of were when people mash the flapperon into a hangar door or wall.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kurt schrader
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Avid problems-was KF fuel tanks
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Hi Maurice,
If I remember correctly, the Avid used wooden mounts
for the flapperons. Aren't they extensions of the
ribs? These were supposed to be weaker than the
kitFox, especially the later models. You might
inspect the flapperon attachments to see how they
compare to KitFox mounts prior to purchase. I don't
know if the later Avids had stronger mounts.
Kurt S. S-5 KitFox
--- Maurice Fraser <mfraser@gokenora.com> wrote:
> Hi All
>
> I am looking at buying a Avid HH and have been
> monitoring the avid group for a while now and a
> getting a little concerned....
..........
> Also the flaperon attach point at the wing rib on
> the plane....
> ........
> Thanks in Advance
> Maurice
Message 7
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| Subject: | Wondering........ |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "hausding, sid" <sidh@charter.net>
Recently saw your message about concerns with the Avid design and a
comparison to the Kitfox.......could you write and address some of the
concerns and maybe give me some specific questions that I could answer or
clarify for you...........the Avid forum also has pilot builders with
hundreds of hours in all models and we have gone the gamut of any design
failures or structural problems over the years.........none of which are or
were 'fatal' or flight failure situations.............with one exception
that we know of (corrected) we can trace most all problems to pilot error or
builder modifications.............
Sid
Avid Speedwing
N204S
Alpena, Mi 49707
Message 8
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Since the battery is 3 years old it might be easiest to just replace it and
see what happens. If still same problem then you may have a corroded ground
connection somewhere, or maybe (hopefully not) a problem with the starter
itself.
A 3 year old battery has already lost some of it's grunt and hasn't got much
time left on it anyway.
Deke
>
> I have a battery problem.
>
> After sitting for two months my Jabiru Kitfox engine will not turn over.
I
> suspect the battery. I put a charger on the battery all night and it was
> registering fully charged in terms of volts. But my limited knowledge of
> batteries makes me wonder about the amps. Can you measure for amps and
will
> this tell you anything? Can the volts be high and the amps be low. I
also
> had a trickle charger on the battery for an extended period of time and
> someone told me that may not do the battery any good either.
>
> This could be as simple as a connection somewhere a tiny bit corroded.
The
> battery does turn the enging but very, very slowly. This battery is also
> three years old.
>
> I apologize it this is an elementary question but what the heck, that's
> what this forum is for.
>
> Mike Chaney
>
>
Message 9
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
Some easy things to check. Does the relay energize? What kind of voltage? Is
the voltage making it to the other side of the relay? Does the voltage drop
significantly when you try to start and does it remain the same level a few
minutes later? Have you cleaned all the primary contacts to the relay and
connections. Batteries are good from 3 too 5 years no matter how you
maintain them. That said I have had exceptional luck with the Concord RG
series batteries. In fact I have one purchased in 1999 that is still good.
Would I put it in my plane and fly, absolutely not. Hope that helps.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike Chaney
Subject: Kitfox-List: Battery
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Chaney <mdps_mc@SWOCA.NET>
I have a battery problem.
After sitting for two months my Jabiru Kitfox engine will not turn over. I
suspect the battery. I put a charger on the battery all night and it was
registering fully charged in terms of volts. But my limited knowledge of
batteries makes me wonder about the amps. Can you measure for amps and will
this tell you anything? Can the volts be high and the amps be low. I also
had a trickle charger on the battery for an extended period of time and
someone told me that may not do the battery any good either.
This could be as simple as a connection somewhere a tiny bit corroded. The
battery does turn the enging but very, very slowly. This battery is also
three years old.
I apologize it this is an elementary question but what the heck, that's
what this forum is for.
Mike Chaney
Message 10
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" <jablackwell@ev1.net>
Mike
My ignition switch went bad and gave me similar symptoms. Let me know if
you need ignition switch trouble shooting ideas.
Jimmie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Chaney" <mdps_mc@swoca.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Battery
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Chaney <mdps_mc@SWOCA.NET>
>
> I have a battery problem.
>
> After sitting for two months my Jabiru Kitfox engine will not turn over.
I
> suspect the battery. I put a charger on the battery all night and it was
> registering fully charged in terms of volts. But my limited knowledge of
> batteries makes me wonder about the amps. Can you measure for amps and
will
> this tell you anything? Can the volts be high and the amps be low. I
also
> had a trickle charger on the battery for an extended period of time and
> someone told me that may not do the battery any good either.
>
> This could be as simple as a connection somewhere a tiny bit corroded.
The
> battery does turn the enging but very, very slowly. This battery is also
> three years old.
>
> I apologize it this is an elementary question but what the heck, that's
> what this forum is for.
>
> Mike Chaney
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | transponder and fabric |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
Roger,
Cutting the fabric is no big deal especially on the belly. Could be easily
patched later, but the real problem is that you may burn out the
transponder. The ground plane does more than just get better transmissions.
It also keep the signal to wave ratio SWR closer to 1 to 1. It may be
working the guess is how long. AS you know that little box is expensive.
Just pick a good spot, make a mount, mark recheck cut and mount. Now there
are antennas that don't require a ground plane but that will be a specific
type and noted in the instructions. I know you know it has to be pointed
down. Good luck.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
r.thomas@za.pwc.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: transponder and fabric
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: r.thomas@za.pwc.com
Hi Chris
I bought a 2nd hand Kitfox, and was required to fit a transponder. I was
not keen on making the fitment a permanent fixture, so was not that keen
on cutting holes in the fabric.
I have literally cable tied the aerial to the pax side of the fus
framework just aft the seats. It works perfectly. Yes, you may get some
responses indicating that putting in a ground plane is a good idea.
Since then, I have had a few friends do the same, and not one has ever had
a problem. (Our ATC are sticky at the national airports, and will only
allow you to fly from their airfields if one is transponder equipped -
they are not shy to recall you or deny joining if the transponder is not
100%.)
Regards
Roger
chris t gandy <jusplanefun@juno.com>
Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
05/02/2005 04:18 PM
Please respond to
kitfox-list@matronics.com
To
kitfox-list@matronics.com
cc
Subject
Kitfox-List: transponder and fabric
Size: 5 Kb
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: chris t gandy <jusplanefun@juno.com>
Hi guys, my dad and I are building a series 5 Vixen and have been
soaking up alot of great information from your list for about six months.
We are getting close to covering, but before we do, we would like to add
a transponder to our panel. We would like any suggestions on a brand or
model ( I like the garmin 327). Also need some help about the antenna
location and whether or not it requires a ground plane at the base.
I also have a question about the point where the lift
strut attaches to the leading edge of the wing. It appears that the hole
for the bolt for that attachment will end up under the fabric once the
wing is covered. Is there any problems with this or will this problem
take care of itself? Thanks for any comments, and keep the wealth of
information coming.
Thanks, Chris -Vixen 912/S under construction
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you
received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material
from any computer.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Re-United with N728KF DO NOT ARCHIVE |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "robert.mcclintock" <robert.mcclintock@sbcglobal.net>
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Mike,
My sincere condolences, I've been off list for a while so rather than ask
you to relive what happened, I'll check the archives.
So Sorry to hear about your "baby".
Scott in Nome
(Texas)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Gibbs" <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re-United with N728KF
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I got a call from Murle Williams this morning, telling me that there
> was a big tangle of green and purple airplane parts littering his
> driveway. Murle had made arrangements to buy the wreckage of my
> beautiful Speedster back from the insurance company.
>
> This afternoon when I made it over there to see it I felt like
> crying. At the same time, though, I felt a very real sense of
> relief, almost like having a loved one return home to their final
> rest.
>
> Murle removed the data plate for me. It was one of those EAA 100th
> anniversary plates and I was very proud of it...but then, I figured
> the plane would be around a lot longer than it was.
>
> I was quite impressed by some of the things I noticed. The engine
> (912S) is remarkably intact, despite it being one of the first things
> to the scene of the accident. If the plastic cover over the ignition
> pickups on the rear of the engine wasn't smashed in it's possible
> that the engine would turn over. The engine was at full power when
> it hit the ground but the blades in the Ivo prop were in place in the
> hub. One blade was shattered from about the mid-point outward. And,
> although literally ripped off of the plane, the Grove landing gear
> looks like the day it was installed. Heck, the tires are still
> inflated.
>
> I took some photos today. I'm not sure if it is the sort of thing
> folks want to see on sportflight.com or not, let me know if there's
> an interest.
>
> Mike G.
> N728KF
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Avid problems-was KF fuel tanks |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
First I sanded all the edges smooth so there were no snags or places for
cracks to start from. The sides also got a good sanding. Then I used
Aerothane Varnish. Next, I proceeded with my PolyFiber coatings which
included 6 coats of the silver Polyspray UV. The final coating was Exterior
Latex Gloss on the rib extensions only. When I covered my wings I made sure
that the fabric wrapped up to the sides of the rib extensions. That, along
with the vinyl PolyFiber coatings has created a pretty good seal for them.
They look good too. I wondered about some kind of metal re-enforcement for
them...but I agree that, like anything, if the aircraft is well cared for
you won't have any problems with them.
Steve Cooper
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Maurice Fraser
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Avid problems-was KF fuel tanks
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Maurice Fraser" <mfraser@gokenora.com>
What did you treat them with?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve Cooper
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Avid problems-was KF fuel tanks
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
"Treated" :)
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Cooper
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Avid problems-was KF fuel tanks
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
I have one of the last Mark IV kits produced by Avid. The flapperon
attachment point is still the end of the wooden rib. I took great care to
finish these in the appropriate manner. I treaded mine according to the book
along with UV protection and paint. The system works pretty well. The only
failure I know of was an Avid that was kept under a tarp in a tropical
location somewhere. Water ran down inside the wing and collected at each rib
tip causing rot. A portion of the flapperon separated in flight. They are a
significant part of my pre-flight inspection. The only other failures I know
of were when people mash the flapperon into a hangar door or wall.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kurt schrader
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Avid problems-was KF fuel tanks
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Hi Maurice,
If I remember correctly, the Avid used wooden mounts
for the flapperons. Aren't they extensions of the
ribs? These were supposed to be weaker than the
kitFox, especially the later models. You might
inspect the flapperon attachments to see how they
compare to KitFox mounts prior to purchase. I don't
know if the later Avids had stronger mounts.
Kurt S. S-5 KitFox
--- Maurice Fraser <mfraser@gokenora.com> wrote:
> Hi All
>
> I am looking at buying a Avid HH and have been
> monitoring the avid group for a while now and a
> getting a little concerned....
..........
> Also the flaperon attach point at the wing rib on
> the plane....
> ........
> Thanks in Advance
> Maurice
Message 14
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| Subject: | Air/oil separator |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
Just a note to those using an air oil separator especially those of us with
the ea-81. Pull one of your vent lines off at the valve cover. You may be
surprised when water runs out. Also look inside the separator, any muck or
water/moisture there? Not good. Along the same line, no pun intended, the
oil return line to the pan, IMHO , is not good. Cap it off to keep the rest
of the muck and water from returning to the pan and if your engine has some
blow by, will keep the oil from pucking out that separator. Better yet, and
what I did was to pull the entire separator off, cap the pan, run separate
vent lines to some home made vent bottles, one on each side. I plan on
either buying or maybe making some nice bottles. Take a look at the info I
found on the below web site. Good info and confirms the problem I was
experiencing. By the way checked my mod after 3 hours of flying and no water
in the bottles and no oil. BAM!
Rick
http://www.sacskyranch.com/index.htm
Message 15
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Mike,
A quick check for you that works on cars, and should
on your plane if you have a landing light:
Turn on your light and make sure it is bright. Try to
start your plane (same as a car) and see how the light
reacts. If the light dims significantly, it is your
battery. If the light doesn't dim much at all, you
have another problem.
Best done with 2 people of course. It is better than
a voltage check because it shows how the battery
handles a load (the light) while cranking. It may
save you from replacing a good battery.
Kurt S.
--- Mike Chaney <mdps_mc@swoca.net> wrote:
> I have a battery problem.
__________________________________
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Air/oil separator |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Rick,
I would like it if you posted a picture or two of your
new system. It seems each of ours can be a little
different from the factory too. Each solution may
have to vary a bit because fo that.
Mine is capped off from the pan and I collect all the
blowby. My difference is that I still get plenty of
oil in the collector, but the oil is clean. The water
seems to seperate out or boil off. I would just like
to reduce the amount of oil blown out. I do have
little spunges in the lines, but I can get up to a qt
in several flights of 4-6 hrs total.
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
--- Rick <turboflyer@comcast.net> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick"
> <turboflyer@comcast.net>
>
> Just a note to those using an air oil separator
> especially those of us with
> the ea-81. Pull one of your vent lines off at the
> valve cover. You may be
> surprised when water runs out. Also look inside the
> separator, any muck or
> water/moisture there? Not good. Along the same line,
> no pun intended, the
> oil return line to the pan, IMHO , is not good. Cap
> it off to keep the rest
> of the muck and water from returning to the pan and
> if your engine has some
> blow by, will keep the oil from pucking out that
> separator. Better yet, and
> what I did was to pull the entire separator off, cap
> the pan, run separate
> vent lines to some home made vent bottles, one on
> each side. I plan on
> either buying or maybe making some nice bottles.
> Take a look at the info I
> found on the below web site. Good info and confirms
> the problem I was
> experiencing. By the way checked my mod after 3
> hours of flying and no water
> in the bottles and no oil. BAM!
>
> Rick
>
> http://www.sacskyranch.com/index.htm
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Perry" <eskflyer@pld.com>
I am going to disagree with you on the battery being good for 3-5 years no
matter how they are maintained.
Some of the kits were supplied with wet motorcycle style batteries and they
are good for usually 1-2 years .low amp light weight plates in them . some
only last for months and i have run into some that will not even take a
charge period . so yes batteries can and do go bad.
In answer to the ? about amps versus volts yes a battery can have full
voltage but low amperage . and not have enough juice to turn engine over
Check the battery liquid level and if low refill with distilled water only
no more acid and not tap water or it will ruin the plates .
Take care all fly safe fly low fly slow
John Perry
Message 18
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski <szakreski@shaw.ca>
Incidentally, you can definitely destroy a battery by overcharging it. I
have destroyed two. (Slow learner). Cheap auto type chargers, even trickle
chargers, are not suitable for modern gel batteries. Bob Nuckolls of
AeroElectric fame http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/pub/pub.html#aec9 has
a lot to say about this. Get a charger specifically made for an aviation
gel battery. The problem is made worse in aviation because a lot us put the
charger on the battery, and come back to the hangar two weeks later.
SteveZ
Calgary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kurt
schrader
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Battery
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Mike,
A quick check for you that works on cars, and should
on your plane if you have a landing light:
Turn on your light and make sure it is bright. Try to
start your plane (same as a car) and see how the light
reacts. If the light dims significantly, it is your
battery. If the light doesn't dim much at all, you
have another problem.
Best done with 2 people of course. It is better than
a voltage check because it shows how the battery
handles a load (the light) while cranking. It may
save you from replacing a good battery.
Kurt S.
--- Mike Chaney <mdps_mc@swoca.net> wrote:
> I have a battery problem.
__________________________________
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Wondering........ |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Hi Sid,
Not sure who you addressed this too...
Just my point of view. I followed both of these
planes from the start, but I have forgotten more than
I still know about them.
That I remember, both had a problem with the origional
bungy gear being a bit weak. Gear brakage was the
most common problem that I remember early on. I think
the Grove gear, though heavy, is a good fix, even with
current bungy gear.
When KitFox split off, they came out a bit heavier, so
the performance was maybe a little less, but they were
made stronger in a few areas. Mainly I liked the
beams inserted into the spars on the Fox that the Avid
didn't have. I don't know of any wing failures on
either, but I like the stronger spars in the Fox
better. Did Avid ever add such a beam?
Later there were airfoil, wing tip changes and such
from both factories, but overall I think the Avids
stayed a little lighter and the Fox's stayed a little
stronger. To me, the later Fox's are better weather
sealed than the Avids, but I haven't looked at the
latest Avids to compare.
Those are the main differences that I know of.
Anything else is more cosmetic/styling to me. They
are both good planes.
Kurt S.
--- "hausding, sid" <sidh@charter.net> wrote:
> Recently saw your message about concerns with the
> Avid design and a comparison to the Kitfox.......
> could you write and address some of the
> concerns and maybe give me some specific questions
> that I could answer or clarify for you...........
> the Avid forum also has pilot builders with
> hundreds of hours in all models and we have gone the
> gamut of any design failures or structural problems
> over the years.........none of which are or
> were 'fatal' or flight failure
situations............
> with one exception that we know of (corrected)
> we can trace most all problems to pilot error or
> builder modifications.............
>
> Sid
> Avid Speedwing
> N204S
> Alpena, Mi 49707
__________________________________
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: elevator push/pull rod |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
For the record, tho I didn't do it, previous owner also bent elevator control rod
to cure this same "problem." So says the construction log. Is it indemic to
the KF II?
Marco Menezes
KF II
N99KX
Fox5flyer <morid@northland.lib.mi.us> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer"
Not good. The first thing I'd do is find out exactly where the rod is
touching the seat pan. Possibly some spray paint on the seat pan then put
it back in with your butt in it and work the control rod. Pull it back out
and see where its rubbing. Shouldn't be happening. Once you find out where
it's rubbing you should be able to see what the fix is. There's always a
solution so let us know how it goes and with 400 of us here we should be
able to fix you up.
Deke
----- Original Message -----
From:
Subject: Kitfox-List: elevator push/pull rod
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: GONER752@aol.com
>
> On my kfII the elevator control rod binds on the bottom of the seat pan
with
> me in the seat.What can i do to resolve this?The elevotor can still be
> operated but definatly stays put when the stick is released.Thanks in
advance.
> greg g.
> n375 kfII
>
>
Message 21
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ted Palamarek" <temco@telusplanet.net>
Mike
You have probably toasted the battery with the trickle
charger if it was the typical store bought variety. These
things are not intended for extended use unless they are the
type which senses the charge of the battery and reacts to
it --- as well the "good" battery maintenance chargers will
apply a short duration charge of approx 14.6 volts at
programmed intervals to keep the plates from sulphating.
After this short duration high charge the unit reverts to
what is known as a maintenance charge which is probably in
the milli-amp range. As with most others that have responded
I think you're in for a new battery after making the checks
that have been already suggested.
Ted Palamarek
Edmonton, AB
<<<<SNIP>>>>
I have a battery problem.
After sitting for two months my Jabiru Kitfox engine will
not turn over. I
suspect the battery. I put a charger on the battery all
night and it was
registering fully charged in terms of volts. But my limited
knowledge of
batteries makes me wonder about the amps. Can you measure
for amps and will
this tell you anything? Can the volts be high and the amps
be low. I also
had a trickle charger on the battery for an extended period
of time and
someone told me that may not do the battery any good either.
This could be as simple as a connection somewhere a tiny bit
corroded. The
battery does turn the enging but very, very slowly. This
battery is also
three years old.
I apologize it this is an elementary question but what the
heck, that's
what this forum is for.
Mike Chaney
===========
Contributions
other
===========
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm
http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list
http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list
===========
Message 22
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Giovanni Day" <gde01@bellsouth.net>
Hello all,
I use a timer to have a regular charger run for about an hour a day. It
keeps the battery fresh without cooking it. Seems to work very well for me.
Giovanni Day
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ted
Palamarek
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Battery
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ted Palamarek" <temco@telusplanet.net>
Mike
You have probably toasted the battery with the trickle
charger if it was the typical store bought variety. These
things are not intended for extended use unless they are the
type which senses the charge of the battery and reacts to
it --- as well the "good" battery maintenance chargers will
apply a short duration charge of approx 14.6 volts at
programmed intervals to keep the plates from sulphating.
After this short duration high charge the unit reverts to
what is known as a maintenance charge which is probably in
the milli-amp range. As with most others that have responded
I think you're in for a new battery after making the checks
that have been already suggested.
Ted Palamarek
Edmonton, AB
<<<<SNIP>>>>
I have a battery problem.
After sitting for two months my Jabiru Kitfox engine will
not turn over. I
suspect the battery. I put a charger on the battery all
night and it was
registering fully charged in terms of volts. But my limited
knowledge of
batteries makes me wonder about the amps. Can you measure
for amps and will
this tell you anything? Can the volts be high and the amps
be low. I also
had a trickle charger on the battery for an extended period
of time and
someone told me that may not do the battery any good either.
This could be as simple as a connection somewhere a tiny bit
corroded. The
battery does turn the enging but very, very slowly. This
battery is also
three years old.
I apologize it this is an elementary question but what the
heck, that's
what this forum is for.
Mike Chaney
===========
Contributions
other
===========
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm
http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list
http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list
===========
Message 23
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| Subject: | Wheels and Tires |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kirk Martenson" <kirk@mninter.net>
Hello:
I know that this subject was just brought up a few weeks ago, but I am looking
for some of the aluminum ATV wheels that used to be sold on the Kitfox IV. Some
people were talking about the just the wheels, but I need the wheels, hubs
and the tires/tubes.
Thanks,
Kirk Martenson
Classic IV
N198KM
Message 24
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Donna and Roger McConnell" <rdmac@swbell.net>
Attention Fellow Listers,
It is with deep regret and sadness that I have decided to put my
Model 7 up for sale. The sole reason I'm doing this is entirely do to the
fact that I will probable never see the Rotax engine I ordered for this
plane. Because of Sky Star's inability or unwillingness to fulfill there
obligations to this customer I am ready to give up on ever completing this
project. My desire to end this night mare relationship with SS is greater
than the desire to build and own this fine little plane. I feel I have been
given no other alternative. What SS has chosen to do is sacrifice the 19 or
so customers waiting on engines in order to stay in business for the rest of
there customers, period.
If I can get what I feel I need to have for this plane then I will look on
the internet for a good little C152. I might even be willing to trade for a
good C152 with a fairly low time engine and some where between 20 and 30
years old if it's in good shape. If anybody on the list is interested or
knows someone that might be in owning a Model 7 that is for the most part
80% to 85% complete and ready for a Rotax 912S engine, you can go to the
link below and see what I have to offer. I have made every effort to build
this plane exactly according to the manual and feel it will make someone a
heck of a good little airplane. Kind regards, and Happy Landings to All.
Roger Mac
http://www.aerotraderonline.com/addetail.html?78025696
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: KF7 For Sale |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jerry Deckard" <mustangsally@semo.net>
I think everyone should boycott SS until they deliver. They could be the
next one waiting an order.
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Donna and Roger McConnell" <rdmac@swbell.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: KF7 For Sale
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Donna and Roger McConnell"
> <rdmac@swbell.net>
>
> Attention Fellow Listers,
>
> It is with deep regret and sadness that I have decided to put
> my
> Model 7 up for sale. The sole reason I'm doing this is entirely do to the
> fact that I will probable never see the Rotax engine I ordered for this
> plane. Because of Sky Star's inability or unwillingness to fulfill there
> obligations to this customer I am ready to give up on ever completing this
> project. My desire to end this night mare relationship with SS is greater
> than the desire to build and own this fine little plane. I feel I have
> been
> given no other alternative. What SS has chosen to do is sacrifice the 19
> or
> so customers waiting on engines in order to stay in business for the rest
> of
> there customers, period.
>
> If I can get what I feel I need to have for this plane then I will look on
> the internet for a good little C152. I might even be willing to trade for
> a
> good C152 with a fairly low time engine and some where between 20 and 30
> years old if it's in good shape. If anybody on the list is interested or
> knows someone that might be in owning a Model 7 that is for the most part
> 80% to 85% complete and ready for a Rotax 912S engine, you can go to the
> link below and see what I have to offer. I have made every effort to build
> this plane exactly according to the manual and feel it will make someone a
> heck of a good little airplane. Kind regards, and Happy Landings to All.
>
>
> Roger Mac
>
> http://www.aerotraderonline.com/addetail.html?78025696
>
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Batteries and chargers |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Ted is correct. A lot of batteries have been toasted by overcharging. For
those of you who have the typical battery chargers where it has a hi/lo
range and sometimes called automatic you might want to consider just using
those for nothing more than a quick charge and only for short duration.
When those so called "automatic" charges revert to trickle they can still
cook the battery if left on for more than 12 hours.
You might want to consider something like the "Accumate" or "Battery
Tender". These chargers use a micro processor to sense battery condition
and after charging it up they revert to a float range that keeps the battery
at top charge, but won't overcharge. I have the Accumate that I bought on
ebay for about $45 or so. It will charge either 12 or 6 volt. The way they
work is that they initially charge on high rate until the battery reaches
14.5 volts then they back off to 13.8 volts and keep it there with a very
low amp charge. It has little LEDs that tell you what's going on and also a
LED for reverse polarity. Best charger I've ever had. When I hook it up I
can just forget about it and don't have to worry about cooking a battery.
Deke
> You have probably toasted the battery with the trickle
> charger if it was the typical store bought variety. These
> things are not intended for extended use unless they are the
> type which senses the charge of the battery and reacts to
> it --- as well the "good" battery maintenance chargers will
> apply a short duration charge of approx 14.6 volts at
> programmed intervals to keep the plates from sulphating.
> After this short duration high charge the unit reverts to
> what is known as a maintenance charge which is probably in
> the milli-amp range. As with most others that have responded
> I think you're in for a new battery after making the checks
> that have been already suggested.
>
> Ted Palamarek
> Edmonton, AB
>
> <<<<SNIP>>>>
> I have a battery problem.
>
> After sitting for two months my Jabiru Kitfox engine will
> not turn over. I
> suspect the battery. I put a charger on the battery all
> night and it was
> registering fully charged in terms of volts. But my limited
> knowledge of
> batteries makes me wonder about the amps. Can you measure
> for amps and will
> this tell you anything? Can the volts be high and the amps
> be low. I also
> had a trickle charger on the battery for an extended period
> of time and
> someone told me that may not do the battery any good either.
>
> This could be as simple as a connection somewhere a tiny bit
> corroded. The
> battery does turn the enging but very, very slowly. This
> battery is also
> three years old.
>
> I apologize it this is an elementary question but what the
> heck, that's
> what this forum is for.
>
> Mike Chaney
>
>
> ===========
> Contributions
> other
> ===========
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm
> ===========
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | KF7 For Sale ATTENTION SKYSTAR |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 2/7/05 5:29:11 PM Pacific Standard Time, rdmac@swbell.net
writes:
<< Attention Fellow Listers,
It is with deep regret and sadness that I have decided to put my
Model 7 up for sale. The sole reason I'm doing this is entirely do to the
fact that I will probable never see the Rotax engine I ordered for this
plane. Because of Sky Star's inability or unwillingness to fulfill there >>
Pardon me list members but this post upsets me. There are two sides to every
story and I think Skystar should post a response to this one. Something
doesn't sound right here. If the engine is all that's needed to complete this
Kitfox and it been paid for then how hard is it to deliver one stinking little
engine? Like I said, something is wrong with this particular situation and I'd
like to see the guilty party exposed and dealt with. This appears to be a
serious blow to Skystar and is being sent around the world. If this is truly a
SS problem then I would expect to see a response like, "engine is in the mail".
Like I said before, I'm working part time for an experimental aircraft
company that sells kits. Just the other day, I prepared a partial kit to a
customer but was missing some crucial parts. The boss was not concerned and
commented that the buyer would just have to deal with it. I hit the roof and damn
near quit. We had those parts in other kits and I insisted they be pulled and
sent to this customer since he had already PAID for them. I got my way.
Sorry, but this one hit me the wrong way.
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 28
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
Roger,
I am very sorry you are not going to be enjoying your new Series 7. I did
look at the photos, and it appears you did a great building job.
Congratulations on getting that far. I hope you either sell the kit soon, or
get your engine. In any case, Skystar still owes you for the engine. I hope
you can get reimbursed for it. Keep up the pressure and don't let it slide.
Don Pearsall
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Donna and Roger
McConnell
Subject: Kitfox-List: KF7 For Sale
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Donna and Roger McConnell"
<rdmac@swbell.net>
Attention Fellow Listers,
It is with deep regret and sadness that I have decided to put my
Model 7 up for sale. The sole reason I'm doing this is entirely do to the
fact that I will probable never see the Rotax engine I ordered for this
plane. Because of Sky Star's inability or unwillingness to fulfill there
obligations to this customer I am ready to give up on ever completing this
project. My desire to end this night mare relationship with SS is greater
than the desire to build and own this fine little plane. I feel I have been
given no other alternative. What SS has chosen to do is sacrifice the 19 or
so customers waiting on engines in order to stay in business for the rest of
there customers, period.
If I can get what I feel I need to have for this plane then I will look on
the internet for a good little C152. I might even be willing to trade for a
good C152 with a fairly low time engine and some where between 20 and 30
years old if it's in good shape. If anybody on the list is interested or
knows someone that might be in owning a Model 7 that is for the most part
80% to 85% complete and ready for a Rotax 912S engine, you can go to the
link below and see what I have to offer. I have made every effort to build
this plane exactly according to the manual and feel it will make someone a
heck of a good little airplane. Kind regards, and Happy Landings to All.
Roger Mac
http://www.aerotraderonline.com/addetail.html?78025696
Message 29
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
I'm really sorry to hear that Roger. Very sad story. Hopefully Skystar
will come through for you before you sell your project.
Deke
> It is with deep regret and sadness that I have decided to put
my
> Model 7 up for sale. The sole reason I'm doing this is entirely do to the
> fact that I will probable never see the Rotax engine I ordered for this
> plane. Because of Sky Star's inability or unwillingness to fulfill there
> obligations to this customer I am ready to give up on ever completing this
> project. My desire to end this night mare relationship with SS is greater
> than the desire to build and own this fine little plane. I feel I have
been
> given no other alternative. What SS has chosen to do is sacrifice the 19
or
> so customers waiting on engines in order to stay in business for the rest
of
> there customers, period.
>
> If I can get what I feel I need to have for this plane then I will look
on
> the internet for a good little C152. I might even be willing to trade for
a
> good C152 with a fairly low time engine and some where between 20 and 30
> years old if it's in good shape. If anybody on the list is interested or
> knows someone that might be in owning a Model 7 that is for the most part
> 80% to 85% complete and ready for a Rotax 912S engine, you can go to the
> link below and see what I have to offer. I have made every effort to build
> this plane exactly according to the manual and feel it will make someone a
> heck of a good little airplane. Kind regards, and Happy Landings to All.
>
>
> Roger Mac
>
> http://www.aerotraderonline.com/addetail.html?78025696
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: KF7 For Sale |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 2/7/05 6:22:31 PM Pacific Standard Time,
donpearsall@comcast.net writes:
<< get your engine. In any case, Skystar still owes you for the engine. I hope
you can get reimbursed for it. Keep up the pressure and don't let it slide.
Don Pearsall
>>
Roger,
No offense but right now SS is looking like the bad guy. They need to
come forth on this forum and tell their side on this particular engine situation.
If there is another side of this story that we aren't hearing, they owe it
to themselves to clear it up. There are a lot of people on this list and some
potential buyers that are being distressed by this.
Personally, I can't imagine them not providing the engine that you have
paid for. Getting more ticked by each post and it ain't even my money.
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 31
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| Subject: | KF7 For Sale ATTENTION SKYSTAR |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
You are the man Don. All we need to do to in this world to be a true human
beings is "just do the right thing". And when you can not there needs to be
an accounting. Thanks for standing up for whats right, and if SS cant do
that then we are all flying the wrong aircraft.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
AlbertaIV@aol.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: KF7 For Sale ATTENTION SKYSTAR
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 2/7/05 5:29:11 PM Pacific Standard Time, rdmac@swbell.net
writes:
<< Attention Fellow Listers,
It is with deep regret and sadness that I have decided to put
my
Model 7 up for sale. The sole reason I'm doing this is entirely do to the
fact that I will probable never see the Rotax engine I ordered for this
plane. Because of Sky Star's inability or unwillingness to fulfill there >>
Pardon me list members but this post upsets me. There are two sides to
every
story and I think Skystar should post a response to this one. Something
doesn't sound right here. If the engine is all that's needed to complete
this
Kitfox and it been paid for then how hard is it to deliver one stinking
little
engine? Like I said, something is wrong with this particular situation and
I'd
like to see the guilty party exposed and dealt with. This appears to be a
serious blow to Skystar and is being sent around the world. If this is
truly a
SS problem then I would expect to see a response like, "engine is in the
mail".
Like I said before, I'm working part time for an experimental aircraft
company that sells kits. Just the other day, I prepared a partial kit to a
customer but was missing some crucial parts. The boss was not concerned and
commented that the buyer would just have to deal with it. I hit the roof
and damn
near quit. We had those parts in other kits and I insisted they be pulled
and
sent to this customer since he had already PAID for them. I got my way.
Sorry, but this one hit me the wrong way.
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 32
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| Subject: | elevator push/pull rod |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirk hull" <kirkhull@sbcglobal.net>
If it helps my clasic VI I had to send one of the flapperon rods back to be
shortened about an inch. On the other hand , both the bars under the seat
came with a slight but obvious bend in them.
<< t back in with your butt in it and work the control rod. Pull it back
out
and see where its rubbing. Shouldn't be happening. Once you find out
where
it's rubbing you should be able to see what the fix is. There's always a
solution so let us know how it goes and with 400 of us here we should be >>
Deke,
Agree that it shouldn't be happening but mine did on the Classic IV. It
was not a hard rub but did contact the seat bottom. I had already wrapped
the
two seat bars with thin carpet to raise the seat. That helped a little but
not quite enough. Putting a very very slight bow to the tubes is not going
to
hurt them. Again, I'm pretty sure I talked with SS about this and they
concurred with the "bend" fix. The original bars came perfectly straight.
Also, my two bars that go from the mixer up to the flapperon horns were
approximately 1/2" too long. I spent all day on the phone with SS on this
one
and they finally agreed. They sent two new ones 1/2" shorter. I verified
this condition on two other Kitfox and found they had to fudge the
adjustment to
get the longer ones to work. I've never heard much about this from other
builders. Point is, you can have a problem on one production model that
won't be
on the next even if you still talking IV's against IV's.
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 33
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirk hull" <kirkhull@sbcglobal.net>
Sounds to me like they need to find a small airport to keep their fox.
ONO in liberty MO. only has A 10' wide X 3000' paved runway but hanger fees
are around $70 While CLay County about 5 miles away has a big 150' wide
runway and hanger fees around $400.00.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
$400 for a T-hangar? My rent for a T-hangar just went up to $90 a month,
and I thought I was being ripped off. I guess there must be some benefit to
living in central Kentucky.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Guy Buchanan" <bnn@nethere.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wing folding
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>
> Grant,
> I can't bring the tail up because my Kitfox is going to live in a
> toy box that's only about 6' 3" high internally. My intention is to park
> it
> at the airport, (already arranged,) and have it be my own mini-hangar.
> That
> will cost me about $95 / month versus $400 for a T-hangar.
>
> Guy
>
> At 10:35 AM 2/5/2005 -0800, you wrote:
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Grant Fluent <gjfpilot@yahoo.com>
>>
>>Guy,
>> I have seen some trailers where the Kitfox sits at a
>>level attitude. Most have a channel iron to guide the
>>...
>>Grant Fluent
>>Newcastle, NE
>>Classic IV 912S
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.5 - Release Date: 2/3/2005
>
>
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Avid problems-was KF fuel tanks |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles <wliles@bayou.com>
Avid does use extensions of the wing ribs to mount the flapperons. It
has proven adequately strong and is very simple and has proven to not
need all the extra hardware used on the Kitfox. Apparently the Kitfox
re-enforced mounts were a result of Denny modifying the original system
which resulted in some failures in Kitfoxes in Great Britain. The
British PFA then required modifications to strengthen the mounts. Avids
were not required to make any changes. In addition the Avid flapperons
have two metal tabs or horns from each bearing to the rib tabs instead
of one like the Kitfox making the flapperon attachment more rigid.
As for fuel tank deterioration the earlier Avids, like Kitfox used a
resin for the tanks that worked fine with aviation fuel and Mogas of the
time. Alcohol, however, can damage them. A different resin was used
about the time the MK IV came out and it should be fuel proof. I've had
no problems with deterioration in my Avid which was purchased in August
1991.
Jerry Liles
kurt schrader wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
>Hi Maurice,
>
>If I remember correctly, the Avid used wooden mounts
>for the flapperons. Aren't they extensions of the
>ribs? These were supposed to be weaker than the
>kitFox, especially the later models. You might
>inspect the flapperon attachments to see how they
>compare to KitFox mounts prior to purchase. I don't
>know if the later Avids had stronger mounts.
>
>Kurt S. S-5 KitFox
>
>--- Maurice Fraser <mfraser@gokenora.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | The other side of the story: |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
Roger,
> No offense but right now SS is looking like the bad guy. They need to
>come forth on this forum and tell their side on this particular engine
>situation.
From Kitplanes Magazine: March 2005
Skystar president and CEO Frank Miller responds:
Kenneth Drewyor is one of several builders caught up in Skystar's financial
crisis of 2002. An accumulation of events-a weak economy in wake of
September 11,2001, special deep discount aircraft sales, etc-placed Skystar
into the red. We had two options: 1. Follow2 in the footsteps of so many
aircraft companies and put the company into bankruptcy. 2. Reorganize the
company, commit to delivering all products owed, and work our way out of it.
The easy way would have been bankruptcy, Skystar elected not to seek court
protection, principally because it would leave several builders stranded and
our other customers without support. We have had investors interested in
helping to fund Skystar, but they have wanted the company to into bankruptcy
first to release prior obligations. We chose to work our way back and to
fulfill all our obligations to our builders. This recovery process is taking
longer than we would like, but we have made and are continuing to make good
progress to this end. We will continue to look for funding to shorten the
time to fulfill our customer obligations and are hopeful that by the time
this letter goes to publication our funding issues will be resolved. Over
the past two years, Skystar has learned much from this crisis and has
significantly strengthened its core business. We appreciate the great
support we have received from many of our builders and pledge to continue
our efforts to get all of our builders affected by the 2002 events current
on their engine deliveries as soon as possible.
Message 36
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirk hull" <kirkhull@sbcglobal.net>
I have never even an NSI engine but can atest to the quality product that
Stratus delivers.
Here are some of the specs from mine
100HP @ 5400rpm
106 foot pounds @3800rpm
fuel flow @ 100% 7.8gph
typical fuel flow @ crz 3.5gph
Idle 800-1000 rpm
If you would like any more info just ask. If I can find it in the book I
will let you know
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michael
Gibbs
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Subaru
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
Roberto asks:
>I'm not familiar with either the NSI or Stratus, who makes them?
Well, that would be NSI and Stratus. :-)
NSI: <http://www.nsiaero.com>
Stratus: <http://www.stratus2000.homestead.com/>
Mike G.
N728KF
Message 37
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
What is the total, full up weight of the package including radiators,
coolent, engine mount, mufflers, airboxes etc...anything else I forgot.
Thanks,
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kirk hull
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Subaru
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirk hull" <kirkhull@sbcglobal.net>
I have never even an NSI engine but can atest to the quality product that
Stratus delivers.
Here are some of the specs from mine
100HP @ 5400rpm
106 foot pounds @3800rpm
fuel flow @ 100% 7.8gph
typical fuel flow @ crz 3.5gph
Idle 800-1000 rpm
If you would like any more info just ask. If I can find it in the book I
will let you know
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michael
Gibbs
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Subaru
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
Roberto asks:
>I'm not familiar with either the NSI or Stratus, who makes them?
Well, that would be NSI and Stratus. :-)
NSI: <http://www.nsiaero.com>
Stratus: <http://www.stratus2000.homestead.com/>
Mike G.
N728KF
Message 38
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
Also, Don in my last post, I wanted to say "ATTABOY" to you for the
upstanding and responsible way you handled the kit shortage. Business owners
forget about the customer and instead look at the $$$$. This is happening
way too much lately.
Don Pearsall
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
AlbertaIV@aol.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: KF7 For Sale
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 2/7/05 6:22:31 PM Pacific Standard Time,
donpearsall@comcast.net writes:
<< get your engine. In any case, Skystar still owes you for the engine. I
hope
you can get reimbursed for it. Keep up the pressure and don't let it slide.
Don Pearsall
>>
Roger,
No offense but right now SS is looking like the bad guy. They need to
come forth on this forum and tell their side on this particular engine
situation.
If there is another side of this story that we aren't hearing, they owe it
to themselves to clear it up. There are a lot of people on this list and
some
potential buyers that are being distressed by this.
Personally, I can't imagine them not providing the engine that you have
paid for. Getting more ticked by each post and it ain't even my money.
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Avid problems-was KF fuel tanks |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Perry" <eskflyer@pld.com>
As I understand it the failures were due to loads applied in a sideways
movement not anything that was atributed to the design but british made them
then change to there satisfaction . the loads implied on the flaperons were
more than will ever be seen in flight situations . . When a flap gets hit
sideways on the ground something is gonna give .
John Perry
-------Original Message-------
From: Jerry Liles
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Avid problems-was KF fuel tanks
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles <wliles@bayou.com>
Avid does use extensions of the wing ribs to mount the flapperons. It
has proven adequately strong and is very simple and has proven to not
need all the extra hardware used on the Kitfox. Apparently the Kitfox
re-enforced mounts were a result of Denny modifying the original system
which resulted in some failures in Kitfoxes in Great Britain.
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: KF7 For Sale ATTENTION SKYSTAR |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Hutson" <rhutson@midsouth.rr.com>
Don, I like your attitude, and before reading your post, I had already
forwarded a copy Mr. McConnell's email to Crystal at Skystar. It will be
interesting to see how she or Frank response. I agree there are 2 sides to
every story
To a different subject, did you go get your physical. It took 6 months to
get my special issuance.
----- Original Message -----
From: <AlbertaIV@aol.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: KF7 For Sale ATTENTION SKYSTAR
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 2/7/05 5:29:11 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> rdmac@swbell.net
> writes:
>
> << Attention Fellow Listers,
>
> It is with deep regret and sadness that I have decided to put
> my
> Model 7 up for sale. The sole reason I'm doing this is entirely do to the
> fact that I will probable never see the Rotax engine I ordered for this
> plane. Because of Sky Star's inability or unwillingness to fulfill there
> >>
>
> Pardon me list members but this post upsets me. There are two sides to
> every
> story and I think Skystar should post a response to this one. Something
> doesn't sound right here. If the engine is all that's needed to complete
> this
> Kitfox and it been paid for then how hard is it to deliver one stinking
> little
> engine? Like I said, something is wrong with this particular situation
> and I'd
> like to see the guilty party exposed and dealt with. This appears to be a
> serious blow to Skystar and is being sent around the world. If this is
> truly a
> SS problem then I would expect to see a response like, "engine is in the
> mail".
> Like I said before, I'm working part time for an experimental aircraft
> company that sells kits. Just the other day, I prepared a partial kit to
> a
> customer but was missing some crucial parts. The boss was not concerned
> and
> commented that the buyer would just have to deal with it. I hit the roof
> and damn
> near quit. We had those parts in other kits and I insisted they be pulled
> and
> sent to this customer since he had already PAID for them. I got my way.
>
>
> Sorry, but this one hit me the wrong way.
>
> Don Smythe
> N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
>
>
>
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: KF7 For Sale |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
Roger:
I can certainly understand your frustration, but I can't help but think you
should hold out a little longer. Skystar is either going to survive or go
under. If the former, and if they live up to their promise to make good on
undelivered purchases, then your project can be completed. If the latter,
then you're no worse off than right now. Hopefully with Sport Plane/Pilot
passed their fortunes and yours will improve. If you give it up now you'll
have a bitter taste in your mouth for the rest of your life, particularly if
Skystar comes through. Unfortunately, there's no guarantee that waiting
will make things better. At least at this point you're not throwing good
money after bad, and if you sell your project now and then Skystar ships you
an engine in 3 or 6 months, how's that going to make you feel? Doubly bad
for certain. Consider this: the cost of a Rotax 912S is what now, 12 or 13
thousand? What can you expect to get for your 85% completed project? 12 or
13 thousand? What will you likely have to pay for a 30 year old 150? At
least 20 thousand or better. And at that, you won't have the pride and
pleasure of flying something you built yourself. Think about it. Is this
really what you want to do? Once you sell the kit, there's no going back.
It's a done deal. I'm sure that right now your initial feeling would be
what mine was when I gave up golf years ago....a tremendous sense of relief.
The difference is I could never have been a decent golfer if I had stuck
with it for the rest of my life. You, however, can still see your dream
come true even if it costs more than you originally anticipated. I realize
that the most unappreciated thing in the world is unsolicited advice, but as
Bill Clinton (I think it was) said, "I feel your pain", and I can't help but
think that putting your kit on the market is an understandable, but perhaps
unjustifiable reaction to that pain. Try to give it a little longer, and
forgive me if I have spoken out of turn.
Clem Nichols
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Donna and Roger McConnell" <rdmac@swbell.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: KF7 For Sale
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Donna and Roger McConnell"
> <rdmac@swbell.net>
>
> Attention Fellow Listers,
>
> It is with deep regret and sadness that I have decided to put
> my
> Model 7 up for sale. The sole reason I'm doing this is entirely do to the
> fact that I will probable never see the Rotax engine I ordered for this
> plane. Because of Sky Star's inability or unwillingness to fulfill there
> obligations to this customer I am ready to give up on ever completing this
> project. My desire to end this night mare relationship with SS is greater
> than the desire to build and own this fine little plane. I feel I have
> been
> given no other alternative. What SS has chosen to do is sacrifice the 19
> or
> so customers waiting on engines in order to stay in business for the rest
> of
> there customers, period.
>
> If I can get what I feel I need to have for this plane then I will look on
> the internet for a good little C152. I might even be willing to trade for
> a
> good C152 with a fairly low time engine and some where between 20 and 30
> years old if it's in good shape. If anybody on the list is interested or
> knows someone that might be in owning a Model 7 that is for the most part
> 80% to 85% complete and ready for a Rotax 912S engine, you can go to the
> link below and see what I have to offer. I have made every effort to build
> this plane exactly according to the manual and feel it will make someone a
> heck of a good little airplane. Kind regards, and Happy Landings to All.
>
>
> Roger Mac
>
> http://www.aerotraderonline.com/addetail.html?78025696
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.5 - Release Date: 2/3/2005
>
>
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Message 42
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Giovanni Day" <gde01@bellsouth.net>
Roger:
You say "I will probable never see the Rotax engine I ordered for this
plane." I am willing to help you recover some of your investment. No, I am
not a lawyer. However, I am willing to make an investment in SS. I think
they will come through. I will split the risk with you. I am willing to give
you half of your investment in the 912s, in cash, right now for the receipts
and ownership of the engine that is to be delivered. If SS comes through
with the engine, it is mine for half of what you invested in it. If they
never come through, you have recovered half your investment at my expense.
Either way you can't loose more than half of your current investment. Let me
know what you want to do. It's your call.
Giovanni Day
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Donna and
Roger McConnell
Subject: Kitfox-List: KF7 For Sale
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Donna and Roger McConnell"
<rdmac@swbell.net>
Attention Fellow Listers,
It is with deep regret and sadness that I have decided to put my
Model 7 up for sale. The sole reason I'm doing this is entirely do to the
fact that I will probable never see the Rotax engine I ordered for this
plane. Because of Sky Star's inability or unwillingness to fulfill there
obligations to this customer I am ready to give up on ever completing this
project. My desire to end this night mare relationship with SS is greater
than the desire to build and own this fine little plane. I feel I have been
given no other alternative. What SS has chosen to do is sacrifice the 19 or
so customers waiting on engines in order to stay in business for the rest of
there customers, period.
If I can get what I feel I need to have for this plane then I will look on
the internet for a good little C152. I might even be willing to trade for a
good C152 with a fairly low time engine and some where between 20 and 30
years old if it's in good shape. If anybody on the list is interested or
knows someone that might be in owning a Model 7 that is for the most part
80% to 85% complete and ready for a Rotax 912S engine, you can go to the
link below and see what I have to offer. I have made every effort to build
this plane exactly according to the manual and feel it will make someone a
heck of a good little airplane. Kind regards, and Happy Landings to All.
Roger Mac
http://www.aerotraderonline.com/addetail.html?78025696
Message 43
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper"
--> <spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
Roger,
> No offense but right now SS is looking like the bad guy. They need to
>come forth on this forum and tell their side on this particular engine
>situation.
From Kitplanes Magazine: March 2005
Skystar president and CEO Frank Miller responds:
Kenneth Drewyor is one of several builders caught up in Skystar's financial
crisis of 2002. An accumulation of events-a weak economy in wake of
September 11,2001, special deep discount aircraft sales, etc-placed Skystar
into the red. We had two options: 1. Follow2 in the footsteps of so many
aircraft companies and put the company into bankruptcy. 2. Reorganize the
company, commit to delivering all products owed, and work our way out of it.
The easy way would have been bankruptcy, Skystar elected not to seek court
protection, principally because it would leave several builders stranded and
our other customers without support. We have had investors interested in
helping to fund Skystar, but they have wanted the company to into bankruptcy
first to release prior obligations. We chose to work our way back and to
fulfill all our obligations to our builders. This recovery process is taking
longer than we would like, but we have made and are continuing to make good
progress to this end. We will continue to look for funding to shorten the
time to fulfill our customer obligations and are hopeful that by the time
this letter goes to publication our funding issues will be resolved. Over
the past two years, Skystar has learned much from this crisis and has
significantly strengthened its core business. We appreciate the great
support we have received from many of our builders and pledge to continue
our efforts to get all of our builders affected by the 2002 events current
on their engine deliveries as soon as possible.
Message 44
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Giovanni Day" <gde01@bellsouth.net>
Rick et. al.,
Here is some good reading on the subject. Well at lease the pictures are
good. ;)
http://www.aa.washington.edu/courses/aa101/Lectures/aa101_10.pdf
Giovanni Day
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rick
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: AOA
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
John,
A bit confused. A normal state of mind for me lately. But I thought airspeed
had noting to do with the stall AOA. I mean I know the plane has to be
flying to stall, but I was told the stall always occurs at the same AOA
regardless of speed. On the other hand I have also read a heavier plane will
stall at a higher IAS than a light plane. Help me out here.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John King
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: AOA
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: John King <kingjohne@adelphia.net>
Rick,
I have the RiteAngle III AOA system installed on my Series 6. You have
to calibrate the system to your particular aircraft as configured.
There are five panel mounted LED's that display aircraft attitude up to
the time of stall (three green, one yellow and one red). It is up to
you to establish the airspeed for the various LED's. I chose to
calibrated mine so that the first Green LED comes on at an IAS of 60
mph. The other four LED's are calibrated for lesser airspeeds as you
approach stall. My Red LED comes on just prior to stall. I use this to
set up my landing approach speeds around the pattern all the way to
touch down . A good landing occurs when the Red LED comes on just
before stall when my wheels are a couple inches from the runway. Oh
yes, there is also a audio female voice in your head sets when the
Yellow LED (Warning, Warning, Warning) and the Red LED (Stall, Stall,
Stall) illuminates.
You have the ability to make the various LED's come on at any desired
airspeed, but they have to be a decreasing sequence of numbers. The
actual numbers I chose for my system are now at the airport, so they are
not now handy. If you want them please specify and I will get them for
you. later
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
Rick wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
>
>Well I think I have finally decided to install an AOA angle of attack
>indicator. Not sure which one yet. They range from very simple and
>inexpensive to very complex and costly. I would appreciate some input from
>those that have flow them in our real, little planes. I would especially be
>interested in what angles were determined for best lift/glide, stall and so
>on. I am a little fuzzy there.
>
>
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: KF7 For Sale ATTENTION SKYSTAR |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 08:55 PM 2/7/2005 -0500, AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote:
>...
><< Attention Fellow Listers,
>
> It is with deep regret and sadness that I have decided to put my
> Model 7 up for sale. The sole reason I'm doing this is entirely do to the
> fact that I will probable never see the Rotax engine I ordered for this
> plane. Because of Sky Star's inability or unwillingness to fulfill there >>
>
>Pardon me list members but this post upsets me. There are two sides to every
>story and I think Skystar should post a response to this one. Something
>doesn't sound right here. If the engine is all that's needed to complete
>this
>...
>Don Smythe
>N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Your right Don. Something is wrong. If I pay for something and the company
declares bankruptcy I'm out of luck. If I paid for something, say a $12k
engine for my aircraft, and the company is still in business I fire up the
lawyers. Yes I know everyone's opinion of lawyers, but these are the
situations they are made for. Typically it involves couple hundred bucks
and some letterhead. How about it Roger? Did you already pay for the
engine? Have you twisted their arm?
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
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