Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:19 AM - Re: KF7 For Sale (David Dawe)
2. 06:48 AM - Re: Wheels and Tires (Lowell Fitt)
3. 07:44 AM - Re: transponder and fabric (W Duke)
4. 08:35 AM - Re: transponder and fabric (jdmcbean)
5. 08:46 AM - Re: KF7 For Sale ATTENTION SKYSTAR (Bruce Harrington)
6. 09:00 AM - Re: transponder and fabric (W Duke)
7. 10:05 AM - Re: KF7 For Sale ATTENTION SKYSTAR (tony fiacco)
8. 10:27 AM - Re: KF7 For Sale ATTENTION SKYSTAR (tony fiacco)
9. 10:42 AM - Re: KF7 For Sale (Grant Fluent)
10. 12:10 PM - Re: KF7 For Sale ATTENTION SKYSTAR (kitfoxpilot)
11. 12:25 PM - Re: Mike Gibbs wreck (Michael Gibbs)
12. 12:35 PM - Re: KF7 For Sale (Lowell Fitt)
13. 01:03 PM - Re: KF7 For Sale (Michael Gibbs)
14. 01:22 PM - Re: Re-United with N728KF (Richard Hutson)
15. 02:43 PM - Fw: KF7 For Sale (Richard Hutson)
16. 02:53 PM - Re: Fw: KF7 For Sale (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
17. 04:31 PM - Re: KF7 For Sale ATTENTION SKYSTAR (Donna and Roger McConnell)
18. 04:44 PM - Re stall speed and angle of attack (Rex & Jan Shaw)
19. 04:48 PM - New: by-location weather forecast and current conditions (Clem Nichols)
20. 05:27 PM - (Rex & Jan Shaw)
21. 07:05 PM - Re: KF7 For Sale ATTENTION SKYSTAR (Guy Buchanan)
22. 07:15 PM - Apologies (Lowell Fitt)
23. 07:29 PM - Re: (Donna and Roger McConnell)
24. 07:39 PM - Re: KF7 For Sale ATTENTION SKYSTAR (Eagle4100@aol.com)
25. 07:47 PM - Re: KF7 For Sale (Pete Sigrist)
26. 07:50 PM - Re: KF7 For Sale ATTENTION SKYSTAR (Guy Buchanan)
27. 08:13 PM - Re: Fw: KF7 For Sale (Eagle4100@aol.com)
28. 08:15 PM - Re: Wheels and Tires (John Perry)
29. 08:24 PM - Re: Wheels and Tires (John Perry)
30. 09:04 PM - Re: Re stall speed and angle of attack (Guy Buchanan)
31. 09:46 PM - Re: Re stall speed and angle of attack (Giovanni Day)
32. 10:18 PM - Re: Re stall speed and angle of attack (Clint Bazzill)
33. 11:25 PM - Re: Fw: KF7 For Sale (Richard Hutson)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: KF7 For Sale |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David Dawe" <davedawe@3web.net>
In the future,why not order your Rotax engines direct from Rotax,BC.,Canada.
At bonus $$$$
----- Original Message -----
From: "Giovanni Day" <gde01@bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: KF7 For Sale
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Giovanni Day" <gde01@bellsouth.net>
>
> Roger:
>
> You say "I will probable never see the Rotax engine I ordered for
this
> plane." I am willing to help you recover some of your investment. No, I am
> not a lawyer. However, I am willing to make an investment in SS. I think
> they will come through. I will split the risk with you. I am willing to
give
> you half of your investment in the 912s, in cash, right now for the
receipts
> and ownership of the engine that is to be delivered. If SS comes through
> with the engine, it is mine for half of what you invested in it. If they
> never come through, you have recovered half your investment at my expense.
> Either way you can't loose more than half of your current investment. Let
me
> know what you want to do. It's your call.
>
> Giovanni Day
> Do Not Archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Donna and
> Roger McConnell
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: KF7 For Sale
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Donna and Roger McConnell"
> <rdmac@swbell.net>
>
> Attention Fellow Listers,
>
> It is with deep regret and sadness that I have decided to put
my
> Model 7 up for sale. The sole reason I'm doing this is entirely do to the
> fact that I will probable never see the Rotax engine I ordered for this
> plane. Because of Sky Star's inability or unwillingness to fulfill there
> obligations to this customer I am ready to give up on ever completing this
> project. My desire to end this night mare relationship with SS is greater
> than the desire to build and own this fine little plane. I feel I have
been
> given no other alternative. What SS has chosen to do is sacrifice the 19
or
> so customers waiting on engines in order to stay in business for the rest
of
> there customers, period.
>
> If I can get what I feel I need to have for this plane then I will look
on
> the internet for a good little C152. I might even be willing to trade for
a
> good C152 with a fairly low time engine and some where between 20 and 30
> years old if it's in good shape. If anybody on the list is interested or
> knows someone that might be in owning a Model 7 that is for the most part
> 80% to 85% complete and ready for a Rotax 912S engine, you can go to the
> link below and see what I have to offer. I have made every effort to build
> this plane exactly according to the manual and feel it will make someone a
> heck of a good little airplane. Kind regards, and Happy Landings to All.
>
>
> Roger Mac
>
> http://www.aerotraderonline.com/addetail.html?78025696
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.5 - Release Date: 03/02/2005
>
>
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Wheels and Tires |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
Kirk,
Can't help with wheels, but you might contact Mark Ferkin for tires.
ferki@gbronline.com
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirk Martenson" <kirk@mninter.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Wheels and Tires
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kirk Martenson" <kirk@mninter.net>
>
> Hello:
>
> I know that this subject was just brought up a few weeks ago, but I am
> looking for some of the aluminum ATV wheels that used to be sold on the
> Kitfox IV. Some people were talking about the just the wheels, but I need
> the wheels, hubs and the tires/tubes.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kirk Martenson
> Classic IV
> N198KM
>
>
> BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Teach CanIt if this mail (ID 100198517) is spam:
> Spam:
> http://login.safereach.com/b.php?c=s&i=100198517&m=47cf629a3d5c
> Not spam:
> http://login.safereach.com/b.php?c=n&i=100198517&m=47cf629a3d5c
> Forget vote:
> http://login.safereach.com/b.php?c=f&i=100198517&m=47cf629a3d5c
> ------------------------------------------------------
> END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS
>
>
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: transponder and fabric |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: W Duke <n981ms@yahoo.com>
FWIW I have the 327. It is great except, it automatically turns on when power
is applied. You have no choice in the matter. It cannot be reconfigured
according to Eastern Avionics. That means since I have no Avionics Master Switch
I must manually turn it off before start. And if the engine doesn't start
on the first attempt I must turn it off again. Turn off is by holding the off
button for about 3 seconds. A minor nuisance but a nuisance just the same.
I suppose I should install an Avionics Master and quit whining.
My antenna is on a factory installed antenna plate just aft of the wing strut
attach.
Maxwell
chris t gandy <jusplanefun@juno.com> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: chris t gandy
Hi guys, my dad and I are building a series 5 Vixen and have been
soaking up alot of great information from your list for about six months.
We are getting close to covering, but before we do, we would like to add
a transponder to our panel. We would like any suggestions on a brand or
model ( I like the garmin 327). Also need some help about the antenna
location and whether or not it requires a ground plane at the base.
I also have a question about the point where the lift
strut attaches to the leading edge of the wing. It appears that the hole
for the bolt for that attachment will end up under the fabric once the
wing is covered. Is there any problems with this or will this problem
take care of itself? Thanks for any comments, and keep the wealth of
information coming.
Thanks, Chris -Vixen 912/S under construction
Maxwell Duke
S6/IO240/Phase II Flight Testing
---------------------------------
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | transponder and fabric |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Maxwell,
I also have the 327 It does not auto turn on.....
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of W Duke
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: transponder and fabric
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: W Duke <n981ms@yahoo.com>
FWIW I have the 327. It is great except, it automatically turns on when
power is applied. You have no choice in the matter. It cannot be
reconfigured according to Eastern Avionics. That means since I have no
Avionics Master Switch I must manually turn it off before start. And if the
engine doesn't start on the first attempt I must turn it off again. Turn
off is by holding the off button for about 3 seconds. A minor nuisance but
a nuisance just the same. I suppose I should install an Avionics Master and
quit whining.
My antenna is on a factory installed antenna plate just aft of the wing
strut attach.
Maxwell
chris t gandy <jusplanefun@juno.com> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: chris t gandy
Hi guys, my dad and I are building a series 5 Vixen and have been
soaking up alot of great information from your list for about six months.
We are getting close to covering, but before we do, we would like to add
a transponder to our panel. We would like any suggestions on a brand or
model ( I like the garmin 327). Also need some help about the antenna
location and whether or not it requires a ground plane at the base.
I also have a question about the point where the lift
strut attaches to the leading edge of the wing. It appears that the hole
for the bolt for that attachment will end up under the fabric once the
wing is covered. Is there any problems with this or will this problem
take care of itself? Thanks for any comments, and keep the wealth of
information coming.
Thanks, Chris -Vixen 912/S under construction
Maxwell Duke
S6/IO240/Phase II Flight Testing
---------------------------------
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: KF7 For Sale ATTENTION SKYSTAR |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" <aerowood@mcsi.net>
Lets think this thru a bit more. File a law suit against SkyStar. Cause
them to spend money on a lawyer. Now things are worse off.
SkyStar says they are working thru the "problem". Give them a bit more
room, else you strangle them, then they go bankrupt. Now where are lots of
other builders?
Grumble, grumble, grumble.
bh
> Your right Don. Something is wrong. If I pay for something and the company
> declares bankruptcy I'm out of luck. If I paid for something, say a $12k
> engine for my aircraft, and the company is still in business I fire up the
> lawyers. Yes I know everyone's opinion of lawyers, but these are the
> situations they are made for. Typically it involves couple hundred bucks
> and some letterhead. How about it Roger? Did you already pay for the
> engine? Have you twisted their arm?
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | transponder and fabric |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: W Duke <n981ms@yahoo.com>
I will have to check again. I know I spoke with Eastern about it and they said
it was built that way secondary to some regulation.
Thanks
Maxwell Do not archive
jdmcbean <jdmcbean@cableone.net> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean"
Maxwell,
I also have the 327 It does not auto turn on.....
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of W Duke
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: transponder and fabric
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: W Duke
FWIW I have the 327. It is great except, it automatically turns on when
power is applied. You have no choice in the matter. It cannot be
reconfigured according to Eastern Avionics. That means since I have no
Avionics Master Switch I must manually turn it off before start. And if the
engine doesn't start on the first attempt I must turn it off again. Turn
off is by holding the off button for about 3 seconds. A minor nuisance but
a nuisance just the same. I suppose I should install an Avionics Master and
quit whining.
My antenna is on a factory installed antenna plate just aft of the wing
strut attach.
Maxwell
chris t gandy wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: chris t gandy
Hi guys, my dad and I are building a series 5 Vixen and have been
soaking up alot of great information from your list for about six months.
We are getting close to covering, but before we do, we would like to add
a transponder to our panel. We would like any suggestions on a brand or
model ( I like the garmin 327). Also need some help about the antenna
location and whether or not it requires a ground plane at the base.
I also have a question about the point where the lift
strut attaches to the leading edge of the wing. It appears that the hole
for the bolt for that attachment will end up under the fabric once the
wing is covered. Is there any problems with this or will this problem
take care of itself? Thanks for any comments, and keep the wealth of
information coming.
Thanks, Chris -Vixen 912/S under construction
Maxwell Duke
S6/IO240/Phase II Flight Testing
---------------------------------
Maxwell Duke
S6/IO240/Phase II Flight Testing
---------------------------------
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: KF7 For Sale ATTENTION SKYSTAR |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: tony fiacco <amfiacco@yahoo.com>
Bruce Harrington <aerowood@mcsi.net> wrote:--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce
Harrington"
Lets think this thru a bit more. File a law suit against SkyStar. Cause
them to spend money on a lawyer. Now things are worse off.
SkyStar says they are working thru the "problem". Give them a bit more
room, else you strangle them, then they go bankrupt. Now where are lots of
other builders?
Grumble, grumble, grumble.
bh
> Your right Don. Something is wrong. If I pay for something and the company
> declares bankruptcy I'm out of luck. If I paid for something, say a $12k
> engine for my aircraft, and the company is still in business I fire up the
> lawyers. Yes I know everyone's opinion of lawyers, but these are the
> situations they are made for. Typically it involves couple hundred bucks
> and some letterhead. How about it Roger? Did you already pay for the
> engine? Have you twisted their arm?
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
---------------------------------
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: KF7 For Sale ATTENTION SKYSTAR |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: tony fiacco <amfiacco@yahoo.com>
here it is
i tried to do my homework 1 1/2 years ago when i decided to buy a kitfox 7, i liked
what i saw in the product, and i wanted to look into the company a little.
i had heard about a group build that was not getting there engines, i reached
out to the president of the eaa club, and emailed him to get his side of the
story. he did not reply to 2 separate emails.
ed downs stated it was miscommunication and that everyone was getting everything
they ordered, the economy had slowed down and they were just going back to full
production. it made sense to me, and the unwillingness of the eaa chapter
to voice its side, said to me it was not that big of a deal to them either.
NOONE getting the shaft from SS was willing to help me, a new buyer getting into
this mess, because they were being told by SS that as new people came on their
parts would be on the way. (robbing peter to pay paul) once again their greed
overshadowed their willingness to help someone else, and unfortunately thats
the way most people work.
so here i am waiting for "the next production run" for my parts. class action
suit? im thinking about it, its not like the parts are coming anyway. selling
my kit? who'd buy it? all the parts that cost SS money are not delivered yet.
what i wont do is to get on board with all the guys that kept their mouth
shut so THEY could get their kits, sorry i dont work that way, you want the facts
ask me, ill send you the emails/pictures whatever you want.
ive been nothing but lied to by SS since day one back in september of 2003, and
i have all of the emails to prove it. i went as far as to go to oshkosh and
ask about buying a new kit, and seeing when it would be delivered, she told me
2 months after payment.
is it true that new buyers are getting their kits in 2 months and im approaching
2 years?
no wonder you dont see any new completions of the kitfox 7.
thanks for letting me vent
Bruce Harrington <aerowood@mcsi.net> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington"
Lets think this thru a bit more. File a law suit against SkyStar. Cause
them to spend money on a lawyer. Now things are worse off.
SkyStar says they are working thru the "problem". Give them a bit more
room, else you strangle them, then they go bankrupt. Now where are lots of
other builders?
Grumble, grumble, grumble.
bh
> Your right Don. Something is wrong. If I pay for something and the company
> declares bankruptcy I'm out of luck. If I paid for something, say a $12k
> engine for my aircraft, and the company is still in business I fire up the
> lawyers. Yes I know everyone's opinion of lawyers, but these are the
> situations they are made for. Typically it involves couple hundred bucks
> and some letterhead. How about it Roger? Did you already pay for the
> engine? Have you twisted their arm?
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
---------------------------------
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: KF7 For Sale |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Grant Fluent <gjfpilot@yahoo.com>
Hello List,
I am a lurker most of the time but thought I'd jump
in here. Boycotts rarely work to accomplish anything
and in my opinion it is in all of our best interests
to see Skystar succeed and prosper. We need to
continue to support them and encourage others to due
the same. While I sympathize with the people that are
awaiting engines, the quickest way to remedy that
problem is for Skystar to get on their feet with new
kit orders. The Kitfox is a wonderful aircraft. Let's
all not do anything to potentially run the company
into the ground - then everyone loses.
Grant Fluent
Newcastle, NE
Classic IV 912S
--- Jerry Deckard <mustangsally@semo.net> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jerry Deckard"
> <mustangsally@semo.net>
>
> I think everyone should boycott SS until they
> deliver. They could be the
> next one waiting an order.
> Jerry
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: KF7 For Sale ATTENTION SKYSTAR |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxpilot" <kitfoxpilot@comcast.net>
Toni,
I'm sure new buyers are not getting full kits in two months. I received my
kit two years ago as of last month. While I got my kit 2 months after
paying, It came with a very long list of backorders. I'm still waiting on
the engine mount and exhaust. I'm glad I didn't decide to pay for the engine
when I ordered my kit. The only series 7's that I have seen are from the
Idaho EAA group and John & Debra McBean's 7. I love the series 7 but I'm
really not impressed with the business practices at Skystar. I would at
least expect them to take the effort to contact me and keep me up to date
with the status of my backorders.
Scott Miller
----- Original Message -----
From: "tony fiacco" <amfiacco@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: KF7 For Sale ATTENTION SKYSTAR
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: tony fiacco <amfiacco@yahoo.com>
>
> here it is
> i tried to do my homework 1 1/2 years ago when i decided to buy a kitfox
7, i liked what i saw in the product, and i wanted to look into the company
a little. i had heard about a group build that was not getting there
engines, i reached out to the president of the eaa club, and emailed him to
get his side of the story. he did not reply to 2 separate emails.
> ed downs stated it was miscommunication and that everyone was getting
everything they ordered, the economy had slowed down and they were just
going back to full production. it made sense to me, and the unwillingness
of the eaa chapter to voice its side, said to me it was not that big of a
deal to them either.
>
> NOONE getting the shaft from SS was willing to help me, a new buyer
getting into this mess, because they were being told by SS that as new
people came on their parts would be on the way. (robbing peter to pay paul)
once again their greed overshadowed their willingness to help someone else,
and unfortunately thats the way most people work.
> so here i am waiting for "the next production run" for my parts. class
action suit? im thinking about it, its not like the parts are coming
anyway. selling my kit? who'd buy it? all the parts that cost SS money
are not delivered yet. what i wont do is to get on board with all the guys
that kept their mouth shut so THEY could get their kits, sorry i dont work
that way, you want the facts ask me, ill send you the emails/pictures
whatever you want.
>
> ive been nothing but lied to by SS since day one back in september of
2003, and i have all of the emails to prove it. i went as far as to go to
oshkosh and ask about buying a new kit, and seeing when it would be
delivered, she told me 2 months after payment.
> is it true that new buyers are getting their kits in 2 months and im
approaching 2 years?
> no wonder you dont see any new completions of the kitfox 7.
> thanks for letting me vent
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Mike Gibbs wreck |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
Thanks, Kurt. I definitely feel that the Kitfox did an excellent job
of protecting my passenger and I. I am also a partner in a Piper
Turbo Arrow III and I told my partners that I almost wish the
accident had happened in that airplane--being a factory-built, the
insurance could just buy us a new one, right? Several of my 'fox
buddies, though, expressed the opinion that we might not have
survived the same accident in that airplane, they feel that the
Kitfox's light weight, slow speeds, and strong structure is why we
are alive today.
I'll prepare some photos for sportflight and will let you all know
when they've been uploaded.
I appreciate the kind words from everyone on the list and the
continuing interest in my saga.
Mike G.
N728KF
Original message:
>Time: 10:41:22 PM PST US
>From: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Mike Gibbs wreck
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
>Well said Rex. You are still one of the family here
>Mike. Maybe we can learn something from your
>construction and your survival that could help others
>in the future. Both you and your Fox must have done
>something right to keep you here.
>
>Kurt S.
>
>--- Rex & Jan Shaw <rexjan@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>> I took some photos today. I'm not sure if it is the
>> sort of thing folks want to see on sportflight.com
>> or not, let me know if there's an interest.
>>
>> Mike G.
>> N728KF
>>
>> Mike we all felt for you in your time of trouble and
>> still do. I'm sure we would all be interested
>> to see what you and your mate survived as well as
>> just what the Kitfox looks like after it all.
>> I'm sure you'll rest better now seeing the plane one
>> last time after the event. I hope you continue
>> to heal well and get back in the air oneday.
>> All the best,
>> Rex Shaw
>> Australia.
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: KF7 For Sale |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
The following was to be sent off list, but I think all need to think the
whole picture for a while.
Don, This is off list.
Have your read the article in Kitplanes about the Idaho 15 that negotiated a
bargain price for 15 kits and built as a group?
This is referred to indirectly in Frank Miller's response to a delivery
complaint posted in in a letter to Kitplanes and is the same response Frank
posted on the list..
This is the third of three disasters that came upon Skystar that put them
seriously behind the eight ball. Actually the fourth, but that will be an
untold story.
One of course would be the uninsured hangar crash - The crash not SS's fault
but being uninsured can be dropped squarely under the feet of our hero Ed
Downs.
Two is the 9-11 situation that no one could prepare for.
Three is the 15 Kitfox kits that Sylvan Adamson negotiated a price seriously
under cost to SS. This is also an Ed Downs brilliancy as at the time, as
was reported to me through a friend, that an accountant in the know had told
him that SS had no idea at the time what a kit actually cost. They (SS in
a period of serious financial need contracted to sell 15 airplanes going
into debt on every one)
Then Ed conveniently bailed out for some mysterious project (a day before
Oskosh I might add, leaving Frank and his wife alone setting up the SS
display there) and has since disappeared from view, leaving Frank to try to
put things all together again. Guess who is getting the flack.
I can't speak for the missing engines of two years ago, but the brilliant
advice to boycott, forcing SS into bankruptcy is not the way to go if we
care about the guys with partial kits. "Kitfox" will survive for all of us
old guys just needing service from time to time and future buyers will be OK
too as the investors mentioned in Franks post are waiting with checkbooks in
hand to pick up the action after all debts are cleared.
There are other factors I am aware of that I am not comfortable discussing
(disaster one), but in short Frank is our hero. Imagine the flack he is
taking trying to undo a whole bunch of bad decisions he had no
responsibility for. For me I would have bailed out long ago also. My skin
is way too thin.
Sometines I wonder.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: <AlbertaIV@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: KF7 For Sale
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 2/7/05 6:22:31 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> donpearsall@comcast.net writes:
>
> << get your engine. In any case, Skystar still owes you for the engine. I
> hope
> you can get reimbursed for it. Keep up the pressure and don't let it
> slide.
>
> Don Pearsall
> >>
>
> Roger,
> No offense but right now SS is looking like the bad guy. They need to
> come forth on this forum and tell their side on this particular engine
> situation.
> If there is another side of this story that we aren't hearing, they owe
> it
> to themselves to clear it up. There are a lot of people on this list and
> some
> potential buyers that are being distressed by this.
> Personally, I can't imagine them not providing the engine that you have
> paid for. Getting more ticked by each post and it ain't even my money.
>
>
> Don Smythe
> N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
>
>
> BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Teach CanIt if this mail (ID 100266990) is spam:
> Spam:
> http://login.safereach.com/b.php?c=s&i=100266990&m=7b8e30332bf5
> Not spam:
> http://login.safereach.com/b.php?c=n&i=100266990&m=7b8e30332bf5
> Forget vote:
> http://login.safereach.com/b.php?c=f&i=100266990&m=7b8e30332bf5
> ------------------------------------------------------
> END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS
>
>
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: KF7 For Sale |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
Jerry sez:
>I think everyone should boycott SS until they deliver. They could be the
>next one waiting an order.
If SkyStar is sufficiently behind the finance curve that they need
income from new orders to fulfill old orders, then a boycott could
essentially be the last straw for the company.
Roger, I'm very sorry that things have gone so poorly for you.
Mike G.
N728KF
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Re-United with N728KF |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Hutson" <rhutson@midsouth.rr.com>
I seconded that.
do not achieve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re-United with N728KF
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
>
> Go ahead and post them on Sportflight Michael. We'd all be interested in
> seeing them.
> Deke
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Gibbs" <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re-United with N728KF
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I got a call from Murle Williams this morning, telling me that there
>> was a big tangle of green and purple airplane parts littering his
>> driveway. Murle had made arrangements to buy the wreckage of my
>> beautiful Speedster back from the insurance company.
>>
>> This afternoon when I made it over there to see it I felt like
>> crying. At the same time, though, I felt a very real sense of
>> relief, almost like having a loved one return home to their final
>> rest.
>>
>> Murle removed the data plate for me. It was one of those EAA 100th
>> anniversary plates and I was very proud of it...but then, I figured
>> the plane would be around a lot longer than it was.
>>
>> I was quite impressed by some of the things I noticed. The engine
>> (912S) is remarkably intact, despite it being one of the first things
>> to the scene of the accident. If the plastic cover over the ignition
>> pickups on the rear of the engine wasn't smashed in it's possible
>> that the engine would turn over. The engine was at full power when
>> it hit the ground but the blades in the Ivo prop were in place in the
>> hub. One blade was shattered from about the mid-point outward. And,
>> although literally ripped off of the plane, the Grove landing gear
>> looks like the day it was installed. Heck, the tires are still
>> inflated.
>>
>> I took some photos today. I'm not sure if it is the sort of thing
>> folks want to see on sportflight.com or not, let me know if there's
>> an interest.
>>
>> Mike G.
>> N728KF
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Hutson" <rhutson@midsouth.rr.com>
I HAVE PERMISSION FROM CRYSTAL TO FORWARD THE EMAIL TO THE LIST.
After I got this email, I called Crystal to see what's up. From the
conversation, neither Crystal or Frank are happy about what has transpired.
there are people who have gotten their engines, they started with oldest
first, which is the way it should be.
Its seems that all of the investors want one thing before investing in
Skystar "FILE BANKRUPTCY AND START OVER". Skystar refuses to do this, their
goal is to work thru this and give every customer what is due to them.
Crystal also stated they are attempting to secure loans to pay for the past
due parts.
In talking with her, I ask to have Frank get on this list and let everyone
where things are and what the plans are for the future. If he could take a
few minutes each week to post an update on the company, I think this would
negate some the problems.
Two closing comments, (1) I could tell by Crystal voice the frustration she
feels about this problem. (2)If someone hires a lawyer to go after Skystar,
that will put them into Bankruptcy simply because they do have the capital
to fight a legal battle. Everyone waiting lost parts would lose and the
investors would win.
These are my personal thoughts after speaking to Crystal and I am in no way
contected to Skystar.
Crystal,s email follows.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Crystal Loveland" <crystalr@skystar.com>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: KF7 For Sale
Richard,
I will forward this to Frank and see what we can come up with.
I see that someone has already posted our response that we put out
for Kitplanes Magazine. We are trying our best to work our way out of
an unfortunate situation and to take care of all the engine customers.
However,
it has not been an easy task most investors are wanting us to take out
bankruptcy
which we are not willing to do. I see a lot of talk on the list about
lawyers and that makes me sad because all that will do is force us into
a bankruptcy
which is not what Frank and I want to. We want to supply everyone with
everything
that we owe them without going through what many of the other company's
in this
industry have done. We are open to suggestions if any one has any ideas
to help speed
this process along faster without putting us into bankruptcy.
I am saddened by Rogers decision to sell his Kitfox as I have spoke with
him numerous
times and have tried to tell him to hang in there that hopefully it will
not be much longer
I understand his frustration and I hope that everyone understands that
this is frustrating
for us also.
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Hutson [mailto:rhutson@midsouth.rr.com]
Subject: Fw: Kitfox-List: KF7 For Sale
Crystal, you might want to address this on the kitfox-list@matronics.com
list. Mr McConnell seems to be an unhappy customer.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Donna and Roger McConnell" <rdmac@swbell.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: KF7 For Sale
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Donna and Roger McConnell"
> <rdmac@swbell.net>
>
> Attention Fellow Listers,
>
> It is with deep regret and sadness that I have decided to
> put
> my
> Model 7 up for sale. The sole reason I'm doing this is entirely do to
the
> fact that I will probable never see the Rotax engine I ordered for
this
> plane. Because of Sky Star's inability or unwillingness to fulfill
there
> obligations to this customer I am ready to give up on ever completing
this
> project. My desire to end this night mare relationship with SS is
greater
> than the desire to build and own this fine little plane. I feel I have
> been
> given no other alternative. What SS has chosen to do is sacrifice the
19
> or
> so customers waiting on engines in order to stay in business for the
rest
> of
> there customers, period.
>
> If I can get what I feel I need to have for this plane then I will
> look on the internet for a good little C152. I might even be willing
> to trade for a good C152 with a fairly low time engine and some where
> between 20 and 30 years old if it's in good shape. If anybody on the
> list is interested or knows someone that might be in owning a Model 7
> that is for the most part 80% to 85% complete and ready for a Rotax
> 912S engine, you can go to the link below and see what I have to
> offer. I have made every effort to build this plane exactly according
> to the manual and feel it will make someone a heck of a good little
> airplane. Kind regards, and Happy Landings to All.
>
>
> Roger Mac
>
> http://www.aerotraderonline.com/addetail.html?78025696
>
>
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: KF7 For Sale |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
perhaps Chrystal's request for suggestions might be responded to: Is there some
way a "bell could be rung" each time an old B/O is filled? Would it not help
those who are in the queue for an engine could visually see that they are moving
closer to a delivery date.
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Hutson"
>
> I HAVE PERMISSION FROM CRYSTAL TO FORWARD THE EMAIL TO THE LIST.
> After I got this email, I called Crystal to see what's up. From the
> conversation, neither Crystal or Frank are happy about what has transpired.
> there are people who have gotten their engines, they started with oldest
> first, which is the way it should be.
> Its seems that all of the investors want one thing before investing in
> Skystar "FILE BANKRUPTCY AND START OVER". Skystar refuses to do this, their
> goal is to work thru this and give every customer what is due to them.
> Crystal also stated they are attempting to secure loans to pay for the past
> due parts.
> In talking with her, I ask to have Frank get on this list and let everyone
> where things are and what the plans are for the future. If he could take a
> few minutes each week to post an update on the company, I think this would
> negate some the problems.
> Two closing comments, (1) I could tell by Crystal voice the frustration she
> feels about this problem. (2)If someone hires a lawyer to go after Skystar,
> that will put them into Bankruptcy simply because they do have the capital
> to fight a legal battle. Everyone waiting lost parts would lose and the
> investors would win.
>
> These are my personal thoughts after speaking to Crystal and I am in no way
> contected to Skystar.
> Crystal,s email follows.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Crystal Loveland"
> To: "Richard Hutson"
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: KF7 For Sale
>
>
> Richard,
>
> I will forward this to Frank and see what we can come up with.
> I see that someone has already posted our response that we put out
> for Kitplanes Magazine. We are trying our best to work our way out of
> an unfortunate situation and to take care of all the engine customers.
> However,
> it has not been an easy task most investors are wanting us to take out
> bankruptcy
> which we are not willing to do. I see a lot of talk on the list about
> lawyers and that makes me sad because all that will do is force us into
> a bankruptcy
> which is not what Frank and I want to. We want to supply everyone with
> everything
> that we owe them without going through what many of the other company's
> in this
> industry have done. We are open to suggestions if any one has any ideas
> to help speed
> this process along faster without putting us into bankruptcy.
> I am saddened by Rogers decision to sell his Kitfox as I have spoke with
> him numerous
> times and have tried to tell him to hang in there that hopefully it will
> not be much longer
> I understand his frustration and I hope that everyone understands that
> this is frustrating
> for us also.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Hutson [mailto:rhutson@midsouth.rr.com]
> To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;
> Subject: Fw: Kitfox-List: KF7 For Sale
>
>
> Crystal, you might want to address this on the kitfox-list@matronics.com
>
> list. Mr McConnell seems to be an unhappy customer.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Donna and Roger McConnell"
> To:
> Subject: Kitfox-List: KF7 For Sale
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Donna and Roger McConnell"
> >
> >
> > Attention Fellow Listers,
> >
> > It is with deep regret and sadness that I have decided to
> > put
> > my
> > Model 7 up for sale. The sole reason I'm doing this is entirely do to
> the
> > fact that I will probable never see the Rotax engine I ordered for
> this
> > plane. Because of Sky Star's inability or unwillingness to fulfill
> there
> > obligations to this customer I am ready to give up on ever completing
> this
> > project. My desire to end this night mare relationship with SS is
> greater
> > than the desire to build and own this fine little plane. I feel I have
>
> > been
> > given no other alternative. What SS has chosen to do is sacrifice the
> 19
> > or
> > so customers waiting on engines in order to stay in business for the
> rest
> > of
> > there customers, period.
> >
> > If I can get what I feel I need to have for this plane then I will
> > look on the internet for a good little C152. I might even be willing
> > to trade for a good C152 with a fairly low time engine and some where
> > between 20 and 30 years old if it's in good shape. If anybody on the
> > list is interested or knows someone that might be in owning a Model 7
> > that is for the most part 80% to 85% complete and ready for a Rotax
> > 912S engine, you can go to the link below and see what I have to
> > offer. I have made every effort to build this plane exactly according
> > to the manual and feel it will make someone a heck of a good little
> > airplane. Kind regards, and Happy Landings to All.
> >
> >
> > Roger Mac
> >
> > http://www.aerotraderonline.com/addetail.html?78025696
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
perhaps Chrystal's request for suggestions might be responded to: Is there some
way a "bell could be rung" each time an old B/O is filled? Would it not help
those who are in the queue for an engine could visually see that they are moving
closer to a delivery date.
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Hutson" <RHUTSON@MIDSOUTH.RR.COM>
I HAVE PERMISSION FROM CRYSTAL TO FORWARD THE EMAIL TO THE LIST.
After I got this email, I called Crystal to see what's up. From the
conversation, neither Crystal or Frank are happy about what has transpired.
there are people who have gotten their engines, they started with oldest
first, which is the way it should be.
Its seems that all of the investors want one thing before investing in
Skystar "FILE BANKRUPTCY AND START OVER". Skystar refuses to do this, their
goal is to work thru this and give every customer what is due to them.
Crystal also stated they are attempting to secure loans to pay for the past
due parts.
In talking with her, I ask to
have Frank get on this list and let everyone
where things are and what the plans are for the future. If he could take a
few minutes each week to post an update on the company, I think this would
negate some the problems.
Two closing comments, (1) I could tell by Crystal voice the frustration she
feels about this problem. (2)If someone hires a lawyer to go after Skystar,
that will put them into Bankruptcy simply because they do have the capital
to fight a legal battle. Everyone waiting lost parts would lose and the
investors would win.
These are my personal thoughts after speaking to Crystal and I am in no way
contected to Skystar.
Crystal,s email follows.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Crystal Loveland" <CRYSTALR@SKYSTAR.COM>
To: "Richard Hutson" <RHUTSON@MIDSOUTH.RR.COM>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: KF7 For Sale
<
BR>
Richard,
I will forward this to Frank and see what we can come up with.
I see that someone has already posted our response that we put out
for Kitplanes Magazine. We are trying our best to work our way out of
an unfortunate situation and to take care of all the engine customers.
However,
it has not been an easy task most investors are wanting us to take out
bankruptcy
which we are not willing to do. I see a lot of talk on the list about
lawyers and that makes me sad because all that will do is force us into
a bankruptcy
which is not what Frank and I want to. We want to supply everyone with
everything
that we owe them without going through what many of the other company's
in this
industry have done. We are open to suggestions if any one has any ideas
to help speed
this process along faster without pu
tting us into bankruptcy.
I am saddened by Rogers decision to sell his Kitfox as I have spoke with
him numerous
times and have tried to tell him to hang in there that hopefully it will
not be much longer
I understand his frustration and I hope that everyone understands that
this is frustrating
for us also.
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Hutson [mailto:rhutson@midsouth.rr.com]
To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;
Subject: Fw: Kitfox-List: KF7 For Sale
Crystal, you might want to address this on the kitfox-list@matronics.com
list. Mr McConnell seems to be an unhappy customer.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Donna and Roger McConnell" <RDMAC@SWBELL.NET>
To: <KITFOX-LIST@MATRONICS.COM>
Subject: Kitfox-List: KF7 For Sale
-- Kitfox
-List message posted by: "Donna and Roger McConnell"
<RDMAC@SWBELL.NET>
Attention Fellow Listers,
It is with deep regret and sadness that I have decided to
put
my
Model 7 up for sale. The sole reason I'm doing this is entirely do to
the
fact that I will probable never see the Rotax engine I ordered for
this
plane. Because of Sky Star's inability or unwillingness to fulfill
there
obligations to this customer I am ready to give up on ever completing
this
project. My desire to end this night mare relationship with SS is
greater
than the desire to build and own this fine little plane. I feel I have
been
given no other alternative. What SS has chosen to do is sacrifice the
19
or
so cus
tomers waiting on engines in order to stay in business for the
rest
of
there customers, period.
If I can get what I feel I need to have for this plane then I will
look on the internet for a good little C152. I might even be willing
to trade for a good C152 with a fairly low time engine and some where
between 20 and 30 years old if it's in good shape. If anybody on the
list is interested or knows someone that might be in owning a Model 7
that is for the most part 80% to 85% complete and ready for a Rotax
912S engine, you can go to the link below and see what I have to
offer. I have made every effort to build this plane exactly according
to the manual and feel it will make someone a heck of a good little
airplane. Kind regards, and Happy Landings to All.
>
; Roger Mac
http://www.aerotraderonline.com/addetail.html?78025696
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | KF7 For Sale ATTENTION SKYSTAR |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Donna and Roger McConnell" <rdmac@swbell.net>
Well,
I can see that me informing the list of my decision to sell my
project has sparked some lively debate. I need to apologize to Don; I wasn't
trying to upset anyone on the list. I was just hoping to get the word out on
this little plane I have for sale. To answer Guy's question, yes, I have
paid for my engine. This is one of the reasons for my frustration. I have
beat my self up over that decision more times than I care to count. Call me
stupid call me gullible it doesn't matter. But back in the summer of '02
when I purchased I was under the impression that I would get what I paid
for. I know better now. I'm going to loose money on this deal I know. I just
want to end this frustration so I'll sleep better at night. I know the folks
at SS feel the frustration too. Let's all change the subject, I'm just a
little embarrassed about being the topic of so much lively chatter.
Best Regards to all
Roger Mac
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
Harrington
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: KF7 For Sale ATTENTION SKYSTAR
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" <aerowood@mcsi.net>
Lets think this thru a bit more. File a law suit against SkyStar. Cause
them to spend money on a lawyer. Now things are worse off.
SkyStar says they are working thru the "problem". Give them a bit more
room, else you strangle them, then they go bankrupt. Now where are lots of
other builders?
Grumble, grumble, grumble.
bh
> Your right Don. Something is wrong. If I pay for something and the company
> declares bankruptcy I'm out of luck. If I paid for something, say a $12k
> engine for my aircraft, and the company is still in business I fire up the
> lawyers. Yes I know everyone's opinion of lawyers, but these are the
> situations they are made for. Typically it involves couple hundred bucks
> and some letterhead. How about it Roger? Did you already pay for the
> engine? Have you twisted their arm?
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re stall speed and angle of attack |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
A bit confused. A normal state of mind for me lately. But I thought airspeed
had noting to do with the stall AOA. I mean I know the plane has to be
flying to stall, but I was told the stall always occurs at the same AOA
regardless of speed. On the other hand I have also read a heavier plane will
stall at a higher IAS than a light plane. Help me out here.
Well I'd also appreciate some clarification on this. I have some BAK theory
books and I am still confused. It seems to me a wing does always stall at a
certain angle of attack. That is when the airflow over the top of the wing
[airfoil ] breaks away from the surface and becomes turbulent. Up to that
point as the angle of attack has been increasing so has lift. Therefore just
before stall we have maximum lift. I think now what happens is we are taught
that Angle of Attack or Attitude equals a certain speed. Lift is
proportional to speed [ lift = co-efficient of lift x 1/2 air density x
speed squared x wing area ] therefore at that speed when the wing stalls we
have a certain amount of lift. ie:- the wing will carry a certain weight. I
assume if we exceed that weight then we have stall but I still can't see
exactly why assuming my assumptions up to this point are correct. I mean
stall is when the angle of attack is too high and the airflow breaks away so
are we saying that to carry more weight we have to increase airspeed
therfore there is a certain low speed that will carry a certain weight like
MTOW of 1200lbs. Our only other real option is to increase angle of attack
but we can't because it will stall right. So this minimum speed at maximum
angle of attack that will carry 1200lbs is our stall speed Vso. But if we
want to carry say 1300lbs we can but we need more airspeed. Right ? Now this
doesn't seem right because we are taught that attitude which I take is angle
of attack, is a certain speed. Perhaps this is only so for a given weight.
ie;- more weight = higher speed for same attitude.
OK that's my best thoughts but I too am still not clear on this. So can
anyone please explain this clearer for those of us that are a bit dense.
Thanks, Rex.
rexjan@bigpond.com
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | New: by-location weather forecast and current conditions |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
Check this out. This is a really neat and useful site.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay D" <jaydew@localnet.com>
"EAA 615" <eaa615@lonelyscribe.com>; "Fly challenger"
<FlyChallenger@yahoogroups.com>; "Fly UL" <FLY-UL@yahoogroups.com>; "NAUA
NAUA" <naua@yahoogroups.com>; "Thunder gull" <ThunderGull@yahoogroups.com>;
"Tony lakeland" <Anthony.Dewberry@lakelandelectric.com>;
"ultralightchapter104" <ultralightchapter104@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [BUG] Fwd: [Fwd: RV-List: New: by-location weather forecast]
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded Message ----------
>
> Subject: [Fwd: RV-List: New: by-location weather forecast]
> Date: Monday 07 February 2005 09:09 pm
> From: Bobby Hester <bhester@hopkinsville.net>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
> The NWS (National Weather Service) has a relatively new service that
> makes XML forecast data available for any latitude/longitude you
> throw at it. What this means is that we no longer have to rely on
> the "nearest terminal forecast" for a useful forecast.
>
> Now you can get a detailed forecast for the exact location you're
> concerned with. I wrote a new web service that takes your airport
> identifier, passes its lat/lon to the NWS NDFD service, and renders
> an easy-to-interpret chart of the forecast for that location.
>
> Go here:
>
> http://www.rvproject.com/wx/
>
> ...and click on "NWS Forecast" at the top of the page. Enter your
> airport identifier, click the button, done deal.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Meet the McDonalds Lincoln Fry get free digital souvenirs,
> Web-only video and bid on the Lincoln Fry prop charity auction.
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/2YkgMD/fV0JAA/Y3ZIAA/SyTolB/TM
>
>
> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BUG-KY/
>
> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> BUG-KY-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.5 - Release Date: 2/3/2005
>
>
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
Attention Fellow Listers,
It is with deep regret and sadness that I have decided to put my
Model 7 up for sale. The sole reason I'm doing this is entirely do to the
fact that I will probable never see the Rotax engine I ordered for this
plane. Because of Sky Star's inability or unwillingness to fulfill there
obligations to this customer
Roger,
I have just been reading your post and all the various replies. I
too would strongly urge you to not sell your plane just yet. I know that's
easy for me to say and I can see your frustration driving you to do this. I
can imagine you just can't see any other way out. Although is that true ? I
mean if you sell your plane aren't you going to then put as much extra money
with the sale price to buy a very inferior plane as you would need to buy
another motor for yours. If you did buy another Rotax for yours then if and
when Skystar comes good you have a brand new spare engine. If you have sold
your plane and Skystar come through you'll just finish up having to sell the
Rotax probably at a considerable loss.
You have been offered 50% for your reciepts so even that is a better way
because you only need to find the other 50% to finish your plane.
I didn't make my plane but I have made boats and rebuilt my house. All of
these give me great sense of satisfaction and achievement and this is what
you are talking about throwing away. Don't be too quick to do this. I
wouldn't even settle for the 50% offer just yet as I think the current
pressure this list and/or someone on it might be able to exert on Skystar
might just do the trick, At the very least consider the posting by Frank
Miller that appears to be in March 2005 Kitplanes magazine. He seems to be
saying Skystar are about to come good so now would not be a good time to
give up.
Can you give us more details on list to further increase pressure on
Skystar. Maybe a photo of a reciept for the motor or similar on photoshare
or just anything written here like more details etc. Just add a little more
fuel to the fire. Youre posting now has certainly created some attention at
least by us and might well by Skystar so give it a little time and effort.
If you do get an offer for your plane I suggest you tell them it's not for
sale just yet but you will get back to them at a later date. Better still
just take it off the market for the moment. At least before you sell it
consider legal action against Skystar. They appear to be slowly working
their way through their problem. ie:- they are paying out bit by bit trying
to get it all sorted. Therefore the one that exerts the most pressure is
likely to get paid first. You've waited a fair while now, don't give up on
the home stretch.
Best of Luck, Rex.
rexjan@bigpond.com
Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: KF7 For Sale ATTENTION SKYSTAR |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
Well I agree, but I assume Roger's been through all that. I mean look at
him: he's selling his kit! He's not interested in investing in Skystar. He
just wants to finish his airplane.
At some time you have to let your debtor know it's time to move you to the
top of the list. I've worked for companies that move money around in a
Ponzi scheme based on who squeaks the loudest. At some point it's best to
force them to restructure, or other's suffer Roger's fate. (I don't think
restructuring would cause Skystar to disappear- the product's just too good.)
Guy
At 08:45 AM 2/8/2005 -0800, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" <aerowood@mcsi.net>
>
>Lets think this thru a bit more. File a law suit against SkyStar. Cause
>them to spend money on a lawyer. Now things are worse off.
>SkyStar says they are working thru the "problem". Give them a bit more
>room, else you strangle them, then they go bankrupt. Now where are lots of
>other builders?
>
>Grumble, grumble, grumble.
>bh
Message 22
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
An email or two has informed me that much of my message describing the
genesis of SS's current financial situation is not accurate, including, but
not limited to Frank's marital status.
My apologies to Frank, Ed and anyone else that might find my post
uncomfortable or hurtful. My intent was not malicious, but also, not
completely accurate.
Again my apologies,
Lowell
Message 23
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Donna and Roger McConnell" <rdmac@swbell.net>
Rex, I appreciate your thoughts. I am willing to wait and see for just a
while more but if someone were to offer me tomorrow what I'm asking then it
would not be fair to that person to say no or I need to wait. I realize what
I'm giving up and it tears me up. But it also tears me up to not be able to
finish this plane. I'm also not the only one that is in this situation. I
just want it to be over with one way or the other.
Roger
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rex & Jan Shaw
Subject: Kitfox-List:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
Attention Fellow Listers,
It is with deep regret and sadness that I have decided to put my
Model 7 up for sale. The sole reason I'm doing this is entirely do to the
fact that I will probable never see the Rotax engine I ordered for this
plane. Because of Sky Star's inability or unwillingness to fulfill there
obligations to this customer
Roger,
I have just been reading your post and all the various replies. I
too would strongly urge you to not sell your plane just yet. I know that's
easy for me to say and I can see your frustration driving you to do this. I
can imagine you just can't see any other way out. Although is that true ? I
mean if you sell your plane aren't you going to then put as much extra money
with the sale price to buy a very inferior plane as you would need to buy
another motor for yours. If you did buy another Rotax for yours then if and
when Skystar comes good you have a brand new spare engine. If you have sold
your plane and Skystar come through you'll just finish up having to sell the
Rotax probably at a considerable loss.
You have been offered 50% for your reciepts so even that is a better way
because you only need to find the other 50% to finish your plane.
I didn't make my plane but I have made boats and rebuilt my house. All of
these give me great sense of satisfaction and achievement and this is what
you are talking about throwing away. Don't be too quick to do this. I
wouldn't even settle for the 50% offer just yet as I think the current
pressure this list and/or someone on it might be able to exert on Skystar
might just do the trick, At the very least consider the posting by Frank
Miller that appears to be in March 2005 Kitplanes magazine. He seems to be
saying Skystar are about to come good so now would not be a good time to
give up.
Can you give us more details on list to further increase pressure on
Skystar. Maybe a photo of a reciept for the motor or similar on photoshare
or just anything written here like more details etc. Just add a little more
fuel to the fire. Youre posting now has certainly created some attention at
least by us and might well by Skystar so give it a little time and effort.
If you do get an offer for your plane I suggest you tell them it's not for
sale just yet but you will get back to them at a later date. Better still
just take it off the market for the moment. At least before you sell it
consider legal action against Skystar. They appear to be slowly working
their way through their problem. ie:- they are paying out bit by bit trying
to get it all sorted. Therefore the one that exerts the most pressure is
likely to get paid first. You've waited a fair while now, don't give up on
the home stretch.
Best of Luck, Rex.
rexjan@bigpond.com
Message 24
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: KF7 For Sale ATTENTION SKYSTAR |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Eagle4100@aol.com
You are right on que. Its money problems all the way.
Message 25
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: KF7 For Sale |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Pete Sigrist" <psigrist@cox.net>
Clem, you've given some very thoughtfull advice and I hope that Roger
listens to you.
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
>
> Roger:
>
> I can certainly understand your frustration, but I can't help but think
you
> should hold out a little longer..................................>
Message 26
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | KF7 For Sale ATTENTION SKYSTAR |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 06:30 PM 2/8/2005 -0600, Donna and Roger McConnell wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Donna and Roger McConnell"
><rdmac@swbell.net>
>...at SS feel the frustration too. Let's all change the subject, I'm just a
>little embarrassed about being the topic of so much lively chatter.
> Best Regards to all
> Roger Mac
...
Roger,
I really don't think you need to be embarrassed. I've seen this
same discussion on the Glasair, Lancair, and now Skystar forums. The common
thread is inevitably lack of communication. Everybody wants these companies
to succeed. Nobody wants to drive them out of business. But unfortunately
it seems the same types of people gravitate to management of high risk
enterprises and one thing they all have in common is secrecy. I'm guessing
that all you need from Skystar, Roger, is the facts, as in, "Dear Roger, we
do not have the money to pay for your Rotax 912 at the current time. At our
current rate we will need to sell 27 more 7's before we will have enough
discretionary cash for your engine. We estimate we will sell the 27 kits in
15 months. (We are currently selling 1.3 kit per month but have every
expectation that Sport Pilot will increase that rate.) Please be patient
with us. We extend you the offer to come up and look over our books at any
time." etcetera, etcetera. I've never seen it happen, and I've never
understood why.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 27
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: KF7 For Sale |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Eagle4100@aol.com
In a message dated 2/8/2005 5:54:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
kerrjohna@comcast.net writes:
http://www.aerotraderonline.com/addetail.html?78025696
whats your price ? and location. Im in Va.
Message 28
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Wheels and Tires |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Perry" <eskflyer@pld.com>
tires are very cheap they are cheng shin 20x 7x 8 tires & 19.99 each the
factory buys these and grinds the knobbys off and charges $119. dollars
then each . I run the tires with the knobbies and have never had a problem
look for cheng shin tires on internet search. cna buy form Dennis Kirk or
Rocky Mountain ATV. Need any more info call me or e me
John Perry
eskflyer@pld.com
620-492-5115
-------Original Message-------
From: Lowell Fitt
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wheels and Tires
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
Kirk,
Can't help with wheels, but you might contact Mark Ferkin for tires.
ferki@gbronline.com
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirk Martenson" <kirk@mninter.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Wheels and Tires
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kirk Martenson" <kirk@mninter.net>
>
> Hello:
>
> I know that this subject was just brought up a few weeks ago, but I am
> looking for some of the aluminum ATV wheels that used to be sold on the
> Kitfox IV. Some people were talking about the just the wheels, but I need
> the wheels, hubs and the tires/tubes.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kirk Martenson
> Classic IV
> N198KM
>
>
> BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Teach CanIt if this mail (ID 100198517) is spam:
> Spam:
> http://login.safereach.com/b.php?cs&i100198517&m47cf629a3d5c
> Not spam:
> http://login.safereach.com/b.php?cn&i100198517&m47cf629a3d5c
> Forget vote:
> http://login.safereach.com/b.php?cf&i100198517&m47cf629a3d5c
> ------------------------------------------------------
> END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS
>
>
Message 29
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Wheels and Tires |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Perry" <eskflyer@pld.com>
Or buy the tires form SKYSTAR and help them out a little more . to get back
on there feet sooner . I really think our mindset is to get the product as
cheap as we can but if we continue to buy from cheap supliers then eventualy
we wont have cheap suppliers they will dry up and then no one at all . I say
I will buy my next set of tires from SS . whats 220 bucks heck we own
airplanes and they cost alot more than that if we cant afford tires we dont
need the plane . I think ill try and buy all the parts i may need from time
to time from SS. If we lose them then we will never see another like them .
I am sorry for the ones that have not received there stuff yet but ill bet
money they will eventually .
John Perry
-------Original Message-------
From: Lowell Fitt
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wheels and Tires
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
Kirk,
Can't help with wheels, but you might contact Mark Ferkin for tires.
ferki@gbronline.com
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirk Martenson" <kirk@mninter.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Wheels and Tires
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kirk Martenson" <kirk@mninter.net>
>
> Hello:
>
> I know that this subject was just brought up a few weeks ago, but I am
> looking for some of the aluminum ATV wheels that used to be sold on the
> Kitfox IV. Some people were talking about the just the wheels, but I need
> the wheels, hubs and the tires/tubes.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kirk Martenson
> Classic IV
> N198KM
>
>
> BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Teach CanIt if this mail (ID 100198517) is spam:
> Spam:
> http://login.safereach.com/b.php?cs&i100198517&m47cf629a3d5c
> Not spam:
> http://login.safereach.com/b.php?cn&i100198517&m47cf629a3d5c
> Forget vote:
> http://login.safereach.com/b.php?cf&i100198517&m47cf629a3d5c
> ------------------------------------------------------
> END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS
>
>
Message 30
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Re stall speed and angle of attack |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 11:16 AM 2/9/2005 +1030, Rex & Jan Shaw wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
>
>...
>before stall we have maximum lift. I think now what happens is we are taught
>that Angle of Attack or Attitude equals a certain speed. Lift is
>proportional to speed [ lift = co-efficient of lift x 1/2 air density x
>speed squared x wing area ] therefore at that speed when the wing stalls we
>have a certain amount of lift. ie:- the wing will carry a certain weight. I
>assume if we exceed that weight then we have stall but I still can't see
>exactly why assuming my assumptions up to this point are correct.
An airfoil has a curve of coefficient of lift (Cl) versus angle of attack.
Cl increases with angle of attack to a maximum and then either stops, or
decreases before dropping off. (It works the same for negative angles of
attack, except that Cl is negative.) Therefore lift, being a function of
Cl, is a function of angle of attack. (You measure Cl by working your
equation backward, measuring lift while controlling density, air speed, and
area.) You are correct that at any give angle of attack, air density, and
air speed you have a specific amount of lift. If you add weight you change
either angle of attack or air speed. If you fly level at max AoA and
somehow add weight while maintaining that same AoA, you don't stall, but
you do go down hill. If you wish to maintain altitude you must either go
faster or increase AoA. If you increase AoA you stall.
>I mean
>stall is when the angle of attack is too high and the airflow breaks away so
>are we saying that to carry more weight we have to increase airspeed
>therfore there is a certain low speed that will carry a certain weight like
>MTOW of 1200lbs.
Yes.
>Our only other real option is to increase angle of attack
>but we can't because it will stall right.
Right.
>So this minimum speed at maximum
>angle of attack that will carry 1200lbs is our stall speed Vso. But if we
>want to carry say 1300lbs we can but we need more airspeed. Right ?
Right.
>Now this
>doesn't seem right because we are taught that attitude which I take is angle
>of attack, is a certain speed.
Slightly wrong. Attitude is linear with angle of attack, but Cl is not
necessarily linear with angle of attack, therefore lift is not necessarily
linear with attitude. (Many forgiving airfoils change Cl very slowly with
AoA near stall.)
>Perhaps this is only so for a given weight.
>ie;- more weight = higher speed for same attitude.
Absolutely correct.
> OK that's my best thoughts but I too am still not clear on this. So can
>anyone please explain this clearer for those of us that are a bit dense.
> Thanks, Rex.
>rexjan@bigpond.com
I think you've got it!
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Message 31
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re stall speed and angle of attack |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Giovanni Day" <gde01@bellsouth.net>
Guy et. al.,
You stated "If you fly level at max AoA and somehow add weight while
maintaining that same AoA, you don't stall, but you do go down hill." I
thought that when wing loading increased, so did stall speed. Weight/Wing
area = Clmax x 1/2 x density x velosity
2stall. Clmax and density held
constant, weight increased, v
2stall also has to increase. Or is my equation
wrong?
Giovanni Day
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Guy Buchanan
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re stall speed and angle of attack
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 11:16 AM 2/9/2005 +1030, Rex & Jan Shaw wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
>
>...
>before stall we have maximum lift. I think now what happens is we are
taught
>that Angle of Attack or Attitude equals a certain speed. Lift is
>proportional to speed [ lift = co-efficient of lift x 1/2 air density x
>speed squared x wing area ] therefore at that speed when the wing stalls we
>have a certain amount of lift. ie:- the wing will carry a certain weight. I
>assume if we exceed that weight then we have stall but I still can't see
>exactly why assuming my assumptions up to this point are correct.
An airfoil has a curve of coefficient of lift (Cl) versus angle of attack.
Cl increases with angle of attack to a maximum and then either stops, or
decreases before dropping off. (It works the same for negative angles of
attack, except that Cl is negative.) Therefore lift, being a function of
Cl, is a function of angle of attack. (You measure Cl by working your
equation backward, measuring lift while controlling density, air speed, and
area.) You are correct that at any give angle of attack, air density, and
air speed you have a specific amount of lift. If you add weight you change
either angle of attack or air speed. If you fly level at max AoA and
somehow add weight while maintaining that same AoA, you don't stall, but
you do go down hill. If you wish to maintain altitude you must either go
faster or increase AoA. If you increase AoA you stall.
>I mean
>stall is when the angle of attack is too high and the airflow breaks away
so
>are we saying that to carry more weight we have to increase airspeed
>therfore there is a certain low speed that will carry a certain weight like
>MTOW of 1200lbs.
Yes.
>Our only other real option is to increase angle of attack
>but we can't because it will stall right.
Right.
>So this minimum speed at maximum
>angle of attack that will carry 1200lbs is our stall speed Vso. But if we
>want to carry say 1300lbs we can but we need more airspeed. Right ?
Right.
>Now this
>doesn't seem right because we are taught that attitude which I take is
angle
>of attack, is a certain speed.
Slightly wrong. Attitude is linear with angle of attack, but Cl is not
necessarily linear with angle of attack, therefore lift is not necessarily
linear with attitude. (Many forgiving airfoils change Cl very slowly with
AoA near stall.)
>Perhaps this is only so for a given weight.
>ie;- more weight = higher speed for same attitude.
Absolutely correct.
> OK that's my best thoughts but I too am still not clear on this. So can
>anyone please explain this clearer for those of us that are a bit dense.
> Thanks, Rex.
>rexjan@bigpond.com
I think you've got it!
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Message 32
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re stall speed and angle of attack |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clint Bazzill" <clint_bazzill@hotmail.com>
If you don't want to go down hill you have to add power with same angle of
attack. If you do not add power and try to hold the same altitude your have
to increase the angle of attack and you will stall.
Clint
Message 33
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: KF7 For Sale |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Hutson" <rhutson@midsouth.rr.com>
His add says $30.000 be;ow the pictures
----- Original Message -----
From: <Eagle4100@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: Kitfox-List: KF7 For Sale
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Eagle4100@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 2/8/2005 5:54:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> kerrjohna@comcast.net writes:
>
> http://www.aerotraderonline.com/addetail.html?78025696
>
>
> whats your price ? and location. Im in Va.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|