Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:12 AM - SV: Jabiru/Kitfox3 report (Michel Verheughe)
2. 02:22 AM - SV: Stall speed (Michel Verheughe)
3. 02:45 AM - Re: Left or right. WAS: Kitfox 2 (Jose M. Toro)
4. 04:14 AM - Re: SV: Jabiru/Kitfox3 report (Lynn Matteson)
5. 05:19 AM - QNH: WAS Jabiru/Kitfox3 report (Michel Verheughe)
6. 07:15 AM - Roger Augenstein (Trey Moran)
7. 08:40 AM - Re: Re: Sport Pilots and Sport Airplanes (Michael Gibbs)
8. 08:42 AM - Re: Jabiru/Kitfox3 report (Michael Gibbs)
9. 09:05 AM - Re: Stall speed (Bruce Harrington)
10. 09:33 AM - Re: QNH: WAS Jabiru/Kitfox3 report (Richard Hutson)
11. 09:39 AM - approach & RPM (Was stall speed) (EMAproducts@aol.com)
12. 11:52 AM - Re: Re: Florida Flying (kurt schrader)
13. 12:30 PM - Re: Stall speed (Chenoweth)
14. 01:19 PM - Re: Jabiru/Kitfox3 report (Fred Shiple)
15. 05:26 PM - Looking for a Maule P8B (New one)
16. 05:46 PM - Re: QNH: WAS Jabiru/Kitfox3 report (DPREMGOOD@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Jabiru/Kitfox3 report |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
> From: Steve Cooper [spdrflyr@earthlink.net]
> I WISH I only saw 3000 rpm. My Prince P-tip just isn't enough. I get 3760 on
> climb out alone. On takeoff I'm reducing throttle quickly with the Vernier.
> I need a different prop.
I am no expert, Steve, but it seems to me that 3,760, on an engine that has a red
line at 3,300, is excessif and dangerous. What made you choose that prop? Did
you talk with a Jabiru agent about it?
My 3,000 is maybe a bit low but, with yesterday's OAT, QNH, and AD altitude (which
I intentionnaly noted in my report) I figured out that the Density Altitude
was about minus 4,500 feet. This explains also some of the good vertical speed
on initial climb. In the mountains, on a hot summer day, figures will be
different.
Cheers,
Michel
Message 2
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
> From: Chenoweth [chenoweth@gwi.net]
> In my case the difference is about 4 mph. Not a lot but worth knowing.
I get your point, Bill. But it seems that you fly much more by the numbers than
I do. Maybe, when I have enough time as a pilot, I will get into those numbers
but, so far, I am only trying to make a landing I can walk from.
Yesterday, I flew only a couple of hours and did six landings. My first impression
of the Jabiru is that I go very fast - in all the phases of flying. On final,
from the pattern I am used to, I was, each time, flying much too fast, around
70 MPH. For each landing, I had to sideslip to land on the numbers without
going too fast.
Is it the new engine, the prop, the new cowling? I don't know but I'll have to
train more before I'll do short-field landings. Maybe adjusting my idle down will
help a bit too.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Left or right. WAS: Kitfox 2 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
Michel:
No matter if the pedal is "right handed" or "right footed", you have good reasons
to be euphoric.
Although Puerto Rico is so hot, you still need to use the carb heat for landings
when you have a Continental or Lycoming...unless it is fuel injected. I haven't
flown one of those for many years. Will need to get used again.
Jose
Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe
"Jose M. Toro" wrote:
> How it compares the use of right rudder with the Jabiru as opposed to the left
rudder with
> the 582?
It is definitively noticeable, Jose. Maybe not as much as I thought it would
when rolling for take off but on initial climb, you need quite a pressure on
the right-hand pedal*. When turning, you are probably used to give more rudder
in a right-hand turn than left, right?** Well, now it is the opposite. It's
just a question of habit. I guess a Cessna/Piper/Continental/Lycoming pilot
will feel more at home with a Jabiru than with a Rotax.
Also a new habit to take: use the carb heater. Today was humid with -6C but dew
point only -8C. I used the carb heater often. Always on final and push it in
when flaring. I have it to the left side of the throttle handle and I can
easily control both with one hand.
Cheers,
Michel
* "right-hand pedal" is a contradiction because "pedal" (as "pedestrian" and
"pedicure") comes from the latin "pedis" which means ... foot ... and not a
hand! :-)
But you know that since you speak Spanish.
** A norwegian ad on the television shows a Norwegian tourist in an Asian
hospital's surgery room, almost gone under the anaesthetic, being asked by the
doctors:
- "Left leg, Sir? Left leg?"
- "... er, ... right!"
- "Ah, right leg! We then cut right leg, Sir!"
- " nooooo!... " zzzzzz! ...
:-)
Sorry for all the off-topic rubbish ... I am still under the euphoria of flying
today!
DO NOT ARCHIVE!
Jose M. Toro, P.E.
Kitfox II/582
"A slow flight in the Caribbean..."
---------------------------------
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru/Kitfox3 report |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Michel, what is QNH? I'm a "low-in-training-hours" rookie, but I can't
find this one in my books. I deciphered outside temp and density
altitude, but not QNH. It even stumped a pilot friend of mine with
years of flying.
Lynn
On Thursday, February 17, 2005, at 05:10 AM, Michel Verheughe wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>
>> From: Steve Cooper [spdrflyr@earthlink.net]
>> I WISH I only saw 3000 rpm. My Prince P-tip just isn't enough. I get
>> 3760 on
>> climb out alone. On takeoff I'm reducing throttle quickly with the
>> Vernier.
>> I need a different prop.
>
> I am no expert, Steve, but it seems to me that 3,760, on an engine
> that has a red line at 3,300, is excessif and dangerous. What made you
> choose that prop? Did you talk with a Jabiru agent about it?
> My 3,000 is maybe a bit low but, with yesterday's OAT, QNH, and AD
> altitude (which I intentionnaly noted in my report) I figured out
> that the Density Altitude was about minus 4,500 feet. This explains
> also some of the good vertical speed on initial climb. In the
> mountains, on a hot summer day, figures will be different.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | QNH: WAS Jabiru/Kitfox3 report |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
> From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt@jps.net]
> Michel, what is QNH?
Ah, well, if you were flying from a controlled zone, as I do, you would certainly
know, Lynn, because this is what the tower loves to tell you again and again!
:-)
QNH is the atmospheric pressure at sea level. This is what you use to set your
altimeter. Or, if you set it the the AD elevation, what you read as pressure,
is your QNH. What may have puzzled you is the value 1029. It is because, in Europe,
we use hectoPascals (the old "millibar) instead of inches of mercury, as
you do in the US.
Whenever I want to take off, I need to call the tower (not mine, but the neighbour
one, we are under its CTR zone) and I am told "squwak one two three four,
QNH is one zero two niner." And I have to read it back.
While on the subject: the atmospheric pressure at your AD is called QFE, 1013 hPa
(29.9"Mg) is called QHE and QFF is the QNH, corrected for the season, which
is used when drawing isobar lines on weather charts.
... the only reason I know all that is that I teach meteorology to canditate microlight
pilots, here in Norway. ... the only reason I teach is that, when I joined
the club, I was "designated voluntary" for the job! :-) You know what club
activities are, you have to push, draw, and push again to see members do things.
Newcomers get to work at once! :-)
Oh, one more thing: It starts with the letter Q because it is part of the international
Q codes. This is a way to communicate by codes, not having a common language.
Q codes are still much used at sea and among radio amateurs. I know that
from being a radio amateur! :-)
Cheers,
Michel
Message 6
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| Subject: | Roger Augenstein |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Trey Moran" <ffmoran@centurytel.net>
Roger
I have been trying to send you an offlest emaill at raugenstein@fuse.net but it
keeps coming back as undeliverable. What is your new address?
Trey Moran
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Sport Pilots and Sport Airplanes |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
Gary,
No, I'm saying it's not necessary for the plane to be "light sport
built" in order for a sport pilot to fly it. It simply needs to meet
the requirements set forth for operation by sport pilots. In other
words, a Model IV that does not have an adjustable prop and doesn't
exceed the speed limits specified in the FARs can be flown by a sport
pilot whether it is a "light sport built" or "amateur built".
Mike G.
N728KF
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Henderson" <gjglh@cebridge.net>
>
>Mike,
>This friend of mine just finished his KF model IV. Upon getting it checked
>out for airworthiness they gave him the option of amature built or light
>sport built. This also determined the amount of hours he needed to fly the
>plane before he could head off cross country. Are you saying he didn't
>need to get his plane signed off.
>
>Gary
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>>
>> Guys,
>>
>> We are being very sloppy with our terminology here.
>>
>> To "certify" an airplane or piece of equipment for use on a plane
>> means that the certification authorities (FAA, CAA, whomever) are
>> granting you permission to build as many of these things as you want
>> without each one being inspected by them.
>>
>> Airplanes that we amateurs build are NOT certified. Our airplanes
>> receive an airworthiness certificate but we are not authorized to
>> make 100 more just like them and skip the inspection by the
>> authorities.
>>
>> Light Sport Aircraft (LSA) is a new category of certified airplanes.
>> None of us are likely to be building LSA airplanes unless we are in
>> the business of building airplanes for others. The idea behind LSA
>> is that the certification requirements are simpler than for the
>> existing categories and therefore easier and cheaper to get a new
>> design certified. Only someone in the business of building airplanes
>> for others will be concerned with this category (e.g., SkyStar may
>> decide to build completed Kitfoxes and have them certified under the
>> LSA rules, after which they can mass-produce finished airplanes).
>>
>> Sport Pilot is a new category of pilot certificate--it has nothing
>> directly to do with LSA, which applies to the airplane. Someone
>> holding a sport pilot certificate is limited in what types of
>> airplanes and what types of operations are permitted.
>>
>> Sport Pilots may only operate the following types of equipment:
>>
>> Airplanes (single-engine only)
>> Gliders
>> Lighter-than-air ships (airship or balloon)
>> Rotorcraft (gyroplane only)
>> Powered Parachutes
>> Weight-Shift control aircraft (e.g. trikes)
>>
>> Sport Pilots must abide by the following limitations:
>>
>> no flights into Class A airspace (at or above 18,000' MSL in the US)
>> no flights into Class B, C, or D airspace unless you receive
>> training and a logbook endorsement;
>> no flights outside the U.S. without advance permission from
>> the other country or countries
>> no sightseeing flights with passengers for charity fund raisers
>> no flights above 10,000' MSL
>> no night flights
>> no flights when the flight or surface visibility is less than 3 SM
>> no flights unless you can see the surface of the earth for reference
>> no flights contrary to any limitation listed on the pilot's
>> certificate, U.S. driver's license, FAA medical certificate,
>> or logbook endorsement(s)
>> no flights while carrying a passenger or property for hire
> > no renting a light-sport aircraft unless it was issued a "special"
>> airworthiness certificate;
>>
>> Sport Pilots may fly any of the following types of aircraft:
>>
>> an experimental aircraft, including amateur-built aircraft, for
>> which the owner must construct more than 51-percent of the aircraft.
>>
>> a Standard category aircraft; that is, a ready-to-fly aircraft that
>> is type-certificated in accordance with FAR Part 43.
>>
>> a Primary category aircraft; that is, a ready-to-fly aircraft that
> > is type-certificated in accordance with Primary category regulations.
>>
>> a special light-sport aircraft
>>
>> an experimental light-sport aircraft
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru/Kitfox3 report |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>I went flying with the inspector today, here is the report:
Excellent news, Michel, congratulations!
>...for the first 50 hours, I have to keep the RPM over 2,700.
>Impossible! At 2,200 I am already at 80 MPH and If I give more
>throttle, I come very quickly to 100 MPH, which is my Vne.
Maybe it means 50 hours of high-power climbing and low-power descents
rather than cruising around level all the time. Doesn't sound like
much fun, though--up, down, up, down, up, down... :-)
Mike G.
N728KF
Message 9
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" <aerowood@mcsi.net>
Hi Michel,
Try to get the idle down to 600-700 rpm.
Cheers,
bh
N321SX Sonex, Jab 3300, 99.7 hrs
ex-N194KF 582ed IV-1200, 800+ hrs
> I get your point, Bill. But it seems that you fly much more by the numbers
> than I do. Maybe, when I have enough time as a pilot, I will get into
> those numbers but, so far, I am only trying to make a landing I can walk
> from.
> Yesterday, I flew only a couple of hours and did six landings. My first
> impression of the Jabiru is that I go very fast - in all the phases of
> flying. On final, from the pattern I am used to, I was, each time, flying
> much too fast, around 70 MPH. For each landing, I had to sideslip to land
> on the numbers without going too fast.
> Is it the new engine, the prop, the new cowling? I don't know but I'll
> have to train more before I'll do short-field landings. Maybe adjusting my
> idle down will help a bit too.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: QNH: WAS Jabiru/Kitfox3 report |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Hutson" <rhutson@midsouth.rr.com>
DAMN, I glad you cleared that up, I was totally lost also. Who says you
can't teach a very old dog a new trick!!! LOL
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Verheughe" <michel@online.no>
Subject: Kitfox-List: QNH: WAS Jabiru/Kitfox3 report
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>
>> From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt@jps.net]
>> Michel, what is QNH?
>
> Ah, well, if you were flying from a controlled zone, as I do, you would
> certainly know, Lynn, because this is what the tower loves to tell you
> again and again! :-)
> QNH is the atmospheric pressure at sea level. This is what you use to set
> your altimeter. Or, if you set it the the AD elevation, what you read as
> pressure, is your QNH. What may have puzzled you is the value 1029. It is
> because, in Europe, we use hectoPascals (the old "millibar) instead of
> inches of mercury, as you do in the US.
>
> Whenever I want to take off, I need to call the tower (not mine, but the
> neighbour one, we are under its CTR zone) and I am told "squwak one two
> three four, QNH is one zero two niner." And I have to read it back.
>
> While on the subject: the atmospheric pressure at your AD is called QFE,
> 1013 hPa (29.9"Mg) is called QHE and QFF is the QNH, corrected for the
> season, which is used when drawing isobar lines on weather charts.
> ... the only reason I know all that is that I teach meteorology to
> canditate microlight pilots, here in Norway. ... the only reason I teach
> is that, when I joined the club, I was "designated voluntary" for the job!
> :-) You know what club activities are, you have to push, draw, and push
> again to see members do things. Newcomers get to work at once! :-)
>
> Oh, one more thing: It starts with the letter Q because it is part of the
> international Q codes. This is a way to communicate by codes, not having a
> common language. Q codes are still much used at sea and among radio
> amateurs. I know that from being a radio amateur! :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | approach & RPM (Was stall speed) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: EMAproducts@aol.com
Was stall speed
Michel wrote:
Seriously, I noticed today that my approach speed was high and after flaring,
I
was still floating a lot. I adjusted my idle to 900 RPM on the ground. But I
think the engine was still cold. I get 1,100 or even 1,200 in the air and that
is too much, I think, for the landing.
<<<<<Michel,
When doing testing on the RiteAngle II series in '98 or so using an RV-4 we
found that only 200 RPM above idle would change the AOA due to the "Mechanical
lift" of prop blast over the wing. couldn't figure why system wasn't
consistent, finally caught pilot adding a couple hundred RPM to make engine run
smoother (Lyc O-320) A little goes a long long ways, especially in a lightly loaded
wing like the Kitfox. Flying AOA will stop that problem, each approach will
be same~~consistent ~The AOA will correct for the weight of the trolls :-)
> Michel, I suggest you look under the seat you must have a stowaway or two.
He, he! Probably a couple of Norwegian trolls, Rex! :-)
<<<<<PS I agree with Rex! Elbie
Elbie
EM Aviation
www.riteangle.com
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Florida Flying |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Thanks for all the input on finding a place in florida
guys. I was too busy to do much about it with my
father's death, but I did spend one night on line
searching. I'll have to get back to each of your
suggestions ASAP. For now I am going down to Florida
tomorrow for a week of looking.
Does anyone know anything about Massey Airpark? There
is a place there that is interesting. South of
Daytona...
The best I saw was at Eagle's Nest, but it was
$699,000. About twice my price range.
Spruce Creek didn't have anything right now that I saw
in my price range. I am going to look on the East and
South sides of Orlando this trip. Try the west and
North West sides next time.
Gotta go. Thanks in advance and for all the healp
already.
Kurt S.
--- Lonnie_D._Tillinghast@oxy.com wrote:
> Kurt-
>
> Take a look at airporthomes.com. The first listing
> under Find a Home is
> Florida...
>
> Good luck,
> Lonnie
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
Message 13
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
Michel,
I'm not sure I'd consider myself a fly by numbers type but I read Ed
Kolano's series on flight testing homebuilts and was captivated by it and
its great advice. I'd recommend this to anyone but especially to those
doing flight testing.
Bill
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Verheughe" <michel@online.no>
Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: Stall speed
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>
> > From: Chenoweth [chenoweth@gwi.net]
> > In my case the difference is about 4 mph. Not a lot but worth knowing.
>
> I get your point, Bill. But it seems that you fly much more by the numbers
than I do. Maybe, when I have enough time as a pilot, I will get into those
numbers but, so far, I am only trying to make a landing I can walk from.
> Yesterday, I flew only a couple of hours and did six landings. My first
impression of the Jabiru is that I go very fast - in all the phases of
flying. On final, from the pattern I am used to, I was, each time, flying
much too fast, around 70 MPH. For each landing, I had to sideslip to land on
the numbers without going too fast.
> Is it the new engine, the prop, the new cowling? I don't know but I'll
have to train more before I'll do short-field landings. Maybe adjusting my
idle down will help a bit too.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru/Kitfox3 report |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Fred Shiple <fredshiple@sbcglobal.net>
Congratulations, Michel and thanks for keeping us so
well informed.
Fred
do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Looking for a Maule P8B |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: " New one" <Larryandjo@wiacomm.net>
Looking for a Maule P8B or similar for a model IV.
Thanks
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: QNH: WAS Jabiru/Kitfox3 report |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: DPREMGOOD@aol.com
Michel,
Is it not QNE that is Standard Pressure 1013 hPa (29.92" Hg)?
Doug Remoundos
Montreal, Canada
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