Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:15 AM - repairman's certificate (Fox5flyer)
2. 04:50 AM - Re: repairman's certificate (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
3. 06:18 AM - Re: flaperon horn bearing on IV (Steve Zakreski)
4. 06:22 AM - Re: repairman's certificate (Chenoweth)
5. 07:01 AM - Re: flaperon horn bearing on IV (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
6. 07:42 AM - archives on flaperon horn bearing on IV (clemwehner)
7. 08:10 AM - Full Lotus floats (kitfox@simnet.is)
8. 09:14 AM - Re: flaperon horn bearing on IV (Joel Mapes)
9. 09:36 AM - Re: Kitfoxes to Alaska 2005 (robert.mcclintock)
10. 09:37 AM - Re: Re: Sport Pilots and Sport Airplanes (Richard Hutson)
11. 09:59 AM - Re: Full Lotus floats (Richard Hutson)
12. 10:16 AM - Re: flaperon horn bearing on IV (Torgeir Mortensen)
13. 10:44 AM - Re: flaperon horn bearing on IV (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
14. 12:45 PM - IVO (Chenoweth)
15. 01:18 PM - Re: IVO (Harris, Robert)
16. 01:23 PM - Re: Full Lotus floats (David Dawe)
17. 02:09 PM - Re: radiator flap or three way valve (KITFOXZ@aol.com)
18. 02:54 PM - 912UL and external alternator ? (Larry)
19. 03:06 PM - Re: flaperon horn bearing on IV (Fox5flyer)
20. 04:05 PM - Re: repairman's certificate (Randy Daughenbaugh)
21. 04:39 PM - Bearings (Rex & Jan Shaw)
22. 04:59 PM - Re: archives on flaperon horn bearing on IV (Lynn Matteson)
23. 05:27 PM - Re: flaperon horn bearing on IV (Lynn Matteson)
24. 05:37 PM - Re: Bearings (Allan Aaron)
25. 06:11 PM - Re: Full Lotus floats (DPREMGOOD@aol.com)
26. 07:24 PM - Re: Bearings (Lynn Matteson)
27. 08:49 PM - Re: radiator flap or three way valve (James Shumaker)
Message 1
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| Subject: | repairman's certificate |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
I agree with what Randy said below. I've had three repairman's certificates
and none of the Feds that came to the house seemed at all concerned about
whether I did all the work or not. They were most concerned about the data
plates being where they should be, that the paperwork was in order, and
where the nearest good place to eat was at. Very little time was spent with
the builder's logs or the airplane itself. As I understand it they're more
concerned that the airplane was at least 51 percent amature built, which all
Kitfoxes are and they know it. If you can get that certificate, go for it.
It's a definite bonus.
Deke
> I'm not going to be able to get the Repairman's
> certificate anyways since the Kitfox was nearly complete when I bought it.
>
> Glenn, have you flown that beautiful Kitfox II of yours yet?
>
> ... Bill Cloughley
> Kitfox I (#19)
> Severna Park, Maryland
>
> Bill,
> If you want the Repairman's Cert., I bet you can get it. If you finished
> the plane and can convince the DAR that you know how everything on it
works,
> the odds are good that you can get the repairman's Certificate.
>
> I know people who have bought nearly complete planes and finished them up
> and have gotten the Repairman's cert.
>
> Randy
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: repairman's certificate |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 2/22/2005 7:16:08 AM Eastern Standard Time,
morid@northland.lib.mi.us writes:
I agree with what Randy said below. I've had three repairman's certificates
and none of the Feds that came to the house seemed at all concerned about
whether I did all the work or not. They were most concerned about the data
I can add to that one. I spent a lot of time putting my log book into a
binder with all the pic's laid out in order next to the entered log work. The
inspector flipped open the cover, thumbed through the pages and closed it.
They spent about 30 minutes in the hanger and looked just long enough to find
one problem they could write up. A cotter pin on the rudder wasn't bent to
his satisfaction. I bent it in front of him and they left for lunch. Before
leaving, he gave me the repairmans form and said ,send it in. In the mean
time, I was able to act as repairman using my SSN until my repairman's number
arrived. I don't recall them ever asking who built the plane.
Don Smythe
Message 3
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| Subject: | flaperon horn bearing on IV |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski <szakreski@shaw.ca>
Lynn
I suspect people are not answering because they have no clear basis to agree
with you more than the other way around. If your looking for another
opinion, I would say be careful on this one. That bearing obviously has a
purpose, probably flutter control. If it was me, I certainly would not
delete it.
Steve Z
Calgary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lynn
Matteson
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: flaperon horn bearing on IV
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Thanks for the info, Don. I got another "no bearing" reply off-list, so
of the two inputs, it looks like a "go" for no bearings. Guess I'll
make it number three for no bearings.
As an aside, are a lot of builders/fliers reluctant to answer some of
these technical questions, for fear that "big brother" might be reading
the list? Or do we have a lot of non-builders on the list who don't
know what they've got in their planes?
Lynn
On Saturday, February 19, 2005, at 08:34 PM, AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 2/19/2005 8:17:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> lynnmatt@jps.net writes:
>
> I'm getting ready to install the hinges for the flaperon horn bearing,
> and got to wondering what folks do if they go to the one-piece lexan
> turtledeck. Also, I've seen a later model, possibly a V, that didn't
> have the same camloc spacing as the IV, but did have the lexan t'deck,
> and no bearing. Did SS do away with the flaperon bearing on later
> models? I also recall speaking with someone who said not to bother
> with
> the bearing...what IS the right way to go?
>
>
> Lynn,
> I don't have the one piece lexan but do have a one piece
> fiberglass
> (home fabricated). I simply cut slots in the fiberglass so they
> would fit down
> over the flapperon tubes. I have the flapperon bearings attached to
> the
> inside 4130 fuselage tabs with ball lock pins (also home fabricated
> and not the SS
> design). However, after hearing that the flapperon bearings weren't
> necessary on the model IV and above, I took out the ball lock pins.
> The bearings
> just sit there and aren't attached. Doesn't seem to matter. I have
> grabbed
> hold of the flapperon horns in flight and feel no flutter or
> unnecessary
> vibration. I'm basically flying with "no" flapperon hinges at the
> turtledeck.
> Having said that, I'm also flying with a 582 with max normal cruise
> of 90 MPH so
> I can't speak to higher speed Foxes.
>
> Don Smythe
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: repairman's certificate |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
Here's a slightly different scenario. For whatever reason the FAA took my
plane as an opportunity to do some OJT for four new inspectors. So I had
five people going over the plane for easily two hours. They had jillions of
questions and poked and prodded everything. When it was over I was a puddle
of sweat but I got lots of compliments, had five "unofficial" and very minor
things to fix, my operating limitations, and my repairman's certificate.
They looked at my builder's log a bit and at my pictures. In retrospect it
was terrific. At the time it was quite nerve wracking.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: <AlbertaIV@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: repairman's certificate
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 2/22/2005 7:16:08 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> morid@northland.lib.mi.us writes:
>
>
> I agree with what Randy said below. I've had three repairman's
certificates
> and none of the Feds that came to the house seemed at all concerned about
> whether I did all the work or not. They were most concerned about the
data
>
>
> I can add to that one. I spent a lot of time putting my log book into a
> binder with all the pic's laid out in order next to the entered log work.
The
> inspector flipped open the cover, thumbed through the pages and closed
it.
> They spent about 30 minutes in the hanger and looked just long enough to
find
> one problem they could write up. A cotter pin on the rudder wasn't bent
to
> his satisfaction. I bent it in front of him and they left for lunch.
Before
> leaving, he gave me the repairmans form and said ,send it in. In the
mean
> time, I was able to act as repairman using my SSN until my repairman's
number
> arrived. I don't recall them ever asking who built the plane.
>
> Don Smythe
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: flaperon horn bearing on IV |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 2/22/2005 9:20:12 AM Eastern Standard Time,
szakreski@shaw.ca writes:
opinion, I would say be careful on this one. That bearing obviously has a
purpose, probably flutter control. If it was me, I certainly would not
delete it.
Question on this bearing. Do the model 5's and 7's use the flapperon
bearing at the turtledeck? Second question. Am I operating on poor memory or
didn't we discuss this many moons ago and wasn't it discussed that the 4's and
above could do without the bearing. I also seem to remember Skystars
involvement and their concurrence that the bearing wasn't necessary. Somebody
with a
better memory please help me here.
I agree that the bearing has or had an obvious purpose. On the other
hand, if later design/testing has proved the bearing unnecessary, then it is
perfectly OK to delete.
I find that particular bearing a bit of a pain in my situation. I don't
think I would have deleted it on my own without some concurrence. Actually,
mine is still there just not fastened.
Don Smythe
Message 6
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| Subject: | archives on flaperon horn bearing on IV |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "clemwehner" <clemwehner@sbcglobal.net>
I've been a member of this list since 1993 and remember the discussion
about flaperon bearings with the lexan turtledeck coming up several
times in the past years. If you can search the archives back about 1997,
you'll find discussions about the bearing at the time the lexan
turtledeck first came out. I bought one years ago which I haven't yet
installed (I'm a slow builder) and I recall the instructions said to
install the bearing and make a cutout in the lexan. But check the
archives to be sure.
Clem
Lawton, OK
KF-IV,912, still building slowly since 1991.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Full Lotus floats |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@simnet.is
Hi Guys
Has anyone experiance of using Full Lotus floats on a KF?.
I have a KF1 airfraim wich was uppgraided with a KF2 wing when built, and it
has a Rotax 532 engin and a three blade canadian wood prop. It flies great and
I love this plain. I have been thinking of makeing skies for the plain but
recantly a saw an UL plain on a set of Lotus floats takeing of on snow and then
I thought this was briliant, skies and floats in the same package.
In your opinion
Are the Lotus strong enough to withstand this kind of use?, and how do they affect
the plain in flight?. Also I have seen amphib. Lotus floats how do they work
on the Fox?, do you put in a nose wheel or what?.
Any info or pointers that you can give me are very much appriciated.
Regards from Iceland
Thor
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: flaperon horn bearing on IV |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Joel Mapes" <foxfloatflyer@hotmail.com>
Hi Lynn,
I mostly read the list, sifting for nuggets of wisdom. I will be using the
horns in my 5, but with a slightly different configuration.
Joel
Model 5 912 GTA CS prop Aerocomp amphibs
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfoxes to Alaska 2005 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "robert.mcclintock" <robert.mcclintock@sbcglobal.net>
Hey Guys,
As some of the listers know, this is "my back yard"!
I've made this trip before and have lots of good information that I would be
very happy to share with you.
I will be returning to Nome before you depart, but will be there when you
arrive.
I am gong to be bringing the "Arctic Fox" back down with me to Texas. She is
in Nome.
Maybe I will accompany you back down south. Anyway, drop me a line and keep
me informed as you make your plans.
Scott McClintock
Nome, Alaska/Corpus Christi, Texas
DO NOT ARCHVE
----- Original Message -----
From: <SOURDOSTAN@aol.com>
<terryblack274tb@yahoo.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfoxes to Alaska 2005
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: SOURDOSTAN@aol.com
>
> This is the first in a series of notices about a trip Robert Oliver and I
> are
> putting together to hopefully fly our Kitfoxes to Alaska this June. We
> plan
> to leave around the second weekend of June from the west coast and go
> north via
> the Trench in British Columbia to Watson Lake, up to Dawson City, then a
> jaunt along the Yukon River to Bettles, then back on the river again to
> possibly
> Nome (weather permitting) and then down to Anchorage. The trip home would
> depend on a number of factors, to be decided later. We would stop at a
> couple of
> hot springs on the way and make a stop in Bettles just to say we were
> above the
> Arctic Circle. The trip would take three to four weeks, depending on
> where
> folks were coming from and the weather, of course. We will be camping many
> nights and staying in lodges and motels other nights. We may even find a
> friendly
> hangar to stay in.
>
> A few considerations for you to think about before you decide to go: 1)
> are
> you proficient in short field landings and otherwise very experienced in
> your
> aircraft, 2) are you comfortable with tricky weather conditions, 3) will
> you be
> able to get away for 3-4 weeks, 4) are you comfortable flying over adverse
> terrain (many times without roads below), and 5) are you and your aircraft
> up to
> flying a hundred or so hours in 3-4 weeks.
>
> Robert has flown his Kitfox to Alaska twice, once in 2001 and then again
> in
> 2002 on John King's trip. I lived and flew in Alaska for six years in the
> 70's,
> at which time I flew a C-172 from Seattle up the Trench to Anchorage, and
> then I was part of John's trip in 2002 in my Kitfox. Let me know if you
> are
> interested and we will keep you informed and answer any of your questions.
>
> Stan Specht
> N16KC "Columbine"
> Kitfox Model IV Speedster 912ul
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Sport Pilots and Sport Airplanes |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Hutson" <rhutson@midsouth.rr.com>
You do not have to complete 100% of the work, talk with a DAR in your area.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cloughley, Bill" <BCloughl@ciena.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Sport Pilots and Sport Airplanes
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cloughley, Bill" <BCloughl@ciena.com>
>
> Steve, thanks for the advice. I going to try and go the LSA route so I'll
> only
> have a 10 hour Phase I. I'm not going to be able to get the Repairman's
> certificate anyways since the Kitfox was nearly complete when I bought it.
>
> Glenn, have you flown that beautiful Kitfox II of yours yet?
>
> ... Bill Cloughley
> Kitfox I (#19)
> Severna Park, Maryland
>
>
>>> If you register the plane as Experimental AB you will have a 40 hour
>>> phase
> I. If you register it LSA, You'll only have a 10 hour. Call OAK City FAA
> and
> ask to talk to Dick Aldridge or Mr. Edsel Ford. (Yep! That's his name)
> either one of these gentleman can point you in the right direction for LSA
> registration. ... If you register the bird Experimental AB, you can
> get a Repairman's
> certificate so you can sign off your own annual and other work. As LSA you
> will need to go to a school. .... Steve Cooper
>
>
> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1476" name=GENERATOR>
>
> Steve, thanks for the
> advice. I going to try and go the LSA route so I'll only
>
> have a 10 hour Phase
> I. I'm not <SPAN
> class=628081620-21022005>going to be able to get the Repairman's
>
> certificate anyways since
> the Kitfox was
> nearly complete when I bought it.
>
> Glenn, have you flown that
> beautiful Kitfox II of yours yet?
>
> ... Bill
> Cloughley
> Kitfox I
> (#19)
> Severna Park,
> Maryland
>
>
> If you register the plane as Experimental AB you will have a 40 hour
> phase
> I. If you register it LSA, You'll only have a 10 hour. Call OAK City
> FAA and
> ask to talk to Dick Aldridge or Mr. Edsel Ford. (Yep! That's his
> name)
> either one of these gentleman can point you in the right direction for
> LSA
> registration. ...
> If you register the bird Experimental AB, you can get a
> Repairman's
> certificate so you can sign off your own annual and other work.
> As LSA you
> will need to go to a school.<SPAN
> class=628081620-21022005> .... Steve
> Cooper
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Full Lotus floats |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Hutson" <rhutson@midsouth.rr.com>
Thor, how close are you to Keflavik,I spent about 10 months there in 1975.
Hope to return someday.
do not archieve
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: flaperon horn bearing on IV |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
Right You are Don,
Have not replied this one before, but here's my opinion;
This bearings serve two purposes; 1) prevent bending of the plapperon
"tube" (between the connection point and the first bearing on the wing).
2) Prevent excess forces on the first (the innermost) attachment point
(inner flap bearing installed on the wing).
When flying in conditions requiring reduced air speed Vno, the maximum
structural cruising speed. Yes, this is flying in turbulence, here you
might need a full deflection -and very fast. Can assure you that such a
correction sometimes feels very heavy...and it is..
Sure, under good smooth conditions, there is no need for all the strength
built into our Kitfoxe's, however, those engineers has to make sure that
such a construction can stand the elements as pr. specifications, -and
this is why we better go for the original bearings.
Besides, a linkage as done in our Kitfoxes, -will be a very poor (and bad)
construction without the inner bearing installed.
Also, an inner bearing prevent "soft" flapperons, one of the ingredients
to create flutter -as some also pointed.
Just my opinion.
Torgeir.
On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 10:01:17 EST, <AlbertaIV@aol.com> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 2/22/2005 9:20:12 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> szakreski@shaw.ca writes:
>
> opinion, I would say be careful on this one. That bearing obviously
> has a
> purpose, probably flutter control. If it was me, I certainly would not
> delete it.
>
>
> Question on this bearing. Do the model 5's and 7's use the flapperon
> bearing at the turtledeck? Second question. Am I operating on poor
> memory or
> didn't we discuss this many moons ago and wasn't it discussed that the
> 4's and
> above could do without the bearing. I also seem to remember Skystars
> involvement and their concurrence that the bearing wasn't necessary.
> Somebody with a
> better memory please help me here.
> I agree that the bearing has or had an obvious purpose. On the
> other
> hand, if later design/testing has proved the bearing unnecessary, then
> it is
> perfectly OK to delete.
> I find that particular bearing a bit of a pain in my situation. I
> don't
> think I would have deleted it on my own without some concurrence.
> Actually,
> mine is still there just not fastened.
>
> Don Smythe
>
>
--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: flaperon horn bearing on IV |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 2/22/2005 1:17:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
torgemor@online.no writes:
Right You are Don,
Have not replied this one before, but here's my opinion;
Torgeir,
I was the one on the side of getting rid of the bearing. So, I couldn't
have been right. Based on this, I think I'll put the bolt back in mine.
Do Not Archive
Don Smythe
Classic IV w/ 582
Message 14
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
I'm considering switching from a GSC 68" three blade to an IVO, perhaps in-flight
adjustable.
IVO is recommending a Medium 72" two blade. They seem quite adamant that this
is appropriate for my 582 blue-head with C box at 3 x 1. (due to the "high" gear
ratio, they say). Most of the people I know are wondering why IVO isn't suggesting
the ultralight version.
I have a IV-1200 with very far aft cg so I can use some extra weight in the front.
I certainly don't want any less weight than the 10 pounds my GSC weighs.
I'd be interested in any comments/advice anyone has to offer.
Bill
Albion, Maine
Message 15
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
Bill,
Go look at IVO's website about the torsional vibration that occurs with a 3
bladed prop and a 3:1 gear ratio and that will explain it.
Robert
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chenoweth
Subject: Kitfox-List: IVO
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
I'm considering switching from a GSC 68" three blade to an IVO, perhaps
in-flight adjustable.
IVO is recommending a Medium 72" two blade. They seem quite adamant that
this is appropriate for my 582 blue-head with C box at 3 x 1. (due to the
"high" gear ratio, they say). Most of the people I know are wondering why
IVO isn't suggesting the ultralight version.
I have a IV-1200 with very far aft cg so I can use some extra weight in the
front. I certainly don't want any less weight than the 10 pounds my GSC
weighs.
I'd be interested in any comments/advice anyone has to offer.
Bill
Albion, Maine
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Full Lotus floats |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David Dawe" <davedawe@3web.net>
My used Kitfox ll came with 12' Full Lotus, a little over 100 hours, they
ripped open top front caused by UV break down. Write off.
----- Original Message -----
From: <kitfox@simnet.is>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Full Lotus floats
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@simnet.is
>
> Hi Guys
>
> Has anyone experiance of using Full Lotus floats on a KF?.
> I have a KF1 airfraim wich was uppgraided with a KF2 wing when built,
and it has a Rotax 532 engin and a three blade canadian wood prop. It flies
great and I love this plain. I have been thinking of makeing skies for the
plain but recantly a saw an UL plain on a set of Lotus floats takeing of on
snow and then I thought this was briliant, skies and floats in the same
package.
> In your opinion
> Are the Lotus strong enough to withstand this kind of use?, and how do
they affect the plain in flight?. Also I have seen amphib. Lotus floats how
do they work on the Fox?, do you put in a nose wheel or what?.
> Any info or pointers that you can give me are very much appriciated.
>
> Regards from Iceland
>
> Thor
>
>
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Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: radiator flap or three way valve |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: KITFOXZ@aol.com
In a message dated 2/20/2005 8:54:44 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net writes:
John
I am using a three way valve that I bought from California Power Systems.
They are the local Rotax Distributor. It is heavier and more difficult to
install than the flappers that Lowell Fitt makes and uses. I was unable to
install them on my plane because of mounting restrictions.
It work well and is much better than flying without, as I was is the past.
Jim Shumaker
Thanks for replying Jim. My search of CPS did not turn up a 3 way valve for
coolant flow use. Can you point me to the correct link or part number?
Does yours use a manual operator or is it automated with a sensor?
John P. Marzluf
Columbus, Ohio
Outback, (out back in the garage)
Message 18
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| Subject: | 912UL and external alternator ? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Larry" <Larryandjo@wiacomm.net>
Hello List,
We have a model IV 1200 with a 912ul. Thinking of adding an external
alternator. We have the bump cowl and it does not look like a lot of room
for the alternator. Anyone have experience with this type setup?
Emailed Skystar but they did not answer. Big surprise, huh!
Larry
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: flaperon horn bearing on IV |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
I agree with Steve. The plans on my S5 included the bearing and I
fabricated and installed it according to instructions. Personally, I can't
see any merit in not installing it. That bearing takes the load when the
flaperon is under stress and during heavy turbulence, in my opinion it does
its job by giving support to the flaperon right where it's needed most.
They weigh almost nothing and aren't difficult to install, so I can't see
why anyone would want to leave them off.
Deke
> szakreski@shaw.ca writes:
> opinion, I would say be careful on this one. That bearing obviously has
a
> purpose, probably flutter control. If it was me, I certainly would not
> delete it.
>
>
> Question on this bearing. Do the model 5's and 7's use the flapperon
> bearing at the turtledeck? Second question. Am I operating on poor
memory or
> didn't we discuss this many moons ago and wasn't it discussed that the
4's and
> above could do without the bearing. I also seem to remember Skystars
> involvement and their concurrence that the bearing wasn't necessary.
Somebody with a
> better memory please help me here.
> I agree that the bearing has or had an obvious purpose. On the other
> hand, if later design/testing has proved the bearing unnecessary, then it
is
> perfectly OK to delete.
> I find that particular bearing a bit of a pain in my situation. I
don't
> think I would have deleted it on my own without some concurrence.
Actually,
> mine is still there just not fastened.
>
> Don Smythe
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | repairman's certificate |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
Another take on this - from a friend today. He pointed out that 10 people
can build the plane and one of them chosen to get the repair cert. This is
even without regard to whether he built 10% or most or only a little bit of
the plane.
Building is supposed to be an educational process for one or many.
Randy
.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chenoweth
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: repairman's certificate
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
Here's a slightly different scenario. For whatever reason the FAA took my
plane as an opportunity to do some OJT for four new inspectors. So I had
five people going over the plane for easily two hours. They had jillions of
questions and poked and prodded everything. When it was over I was a puddle
of sweat but I got lots of compliments, had five "unofficial" and very minor
things to fix, my operating limitations, and my repairman's certificate.
They looked at my builder's log a bit and at my pictures. In retrospect it
was terrific. At the time it was quite nerve wracking.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: <AlbertaIV@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: repairman's certificate
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 2/22/2005 7:16:08 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> morid@northland.lib.mi.us writes:
>
>
> I agree with what Randy said below. I've had three repairman's
certificates
> and none of the Feds that came to the house seemed at all concerned about
> whether I did all the work or not. They were most concerned about the
data
>
>
> I can add to that one. I spent a lot of time putting my log book into a
> binder with all the pic's laid out in order next to the entered log work.
The
> inspector flipped open the cover, thumbed through the pages and closed
it.
> They spent about 30 minutes in the hanger and looked just long enough to
find
> one problem they could write up. A cotter pin on the rudder wasn't bent
to
> his satisfaction. I bent it in front of him and they left for lunch.
Before
> leaving, he gave me the repairmans form and said ,send it in. In the
mean
> time, I was able to act as repairman using my SSN until my repairman's
number
> arrived. I don't recall them ever asking who built the plane.
>
> Don Smythe
>
>
Message 21
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
As an aside, are a lot of builders/fliers reluctant to answer some of
these technical questions, for fear that "big brother" might be reading
the list? Or do we have a lot of non-builders on the list who don't
know what they've got in their planes?
Hi ! Lynn,
well I for one don't like to comment on something I know
nothing about especially if it might lead someone in the wrong direction. Re
the bearings, I do have them on my plane. I would not remove them because I
figure there is no point as I get no binding problems or any other problems.
I feel they might stop some undesired deflection at some time. Also the
designer deemed them worth installing and they don't do extra work for the
fun of it. That's the way I see it for me. As for you well you are the
builder and you can make your own decision. Sure I understand you are
seeking comments to help you make an informed decision. Incidentally my
plane was built by a mechanical engineer and it's the second Kitfox he
built. He aslo won a best built plane award with it.
Rex Shaw
Australia
Kitfox Classic
MKIV Speedster/582
rexjan@bigpond.com
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: archives on flaperon horn bearing on IV |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
I could only go back to Nov '03. Is there a trick to going back further?
Lynn
do not archive
On Tuesday, March 22, 2005, at 10:36 AM, clemwehner wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "clemwehner"
> <clemwehner@sbcglobal.net>
>
> I've been a member of this list since 1993 and remember the discussion
> about flaperon bearings with the lexan turtledeck coming up several
> times in the past years. If you can search the archives back about
> 1997,
> you'll find discussions about the bearing at the time the lexan
> turtledeck first came out. I bought one years ago which I haven't yet
> installed (I'm a slow builder) and I recall the instructions said to
> install the bearing and make a cutout in the lexan. But check the
> archives to be sure.
>
>
> Clem
> Lawton, OK
> KF-IV,912, still building slowly since 1991.
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: flaperon horn bearing on IV |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Lotsa good thoughts on this issue, and a big thanks for everyone's
input.
For my part, it wasn't so much an issue of whether to install or not,
but (and I didn't actually express this point) what to do if and when I
decided to swap the SS deck for a Lexan deck, sometime down the road.
It was this thought that made me wonder if the bearing was actually
needed. If not needed, I wouldn't worry about having to swap the upper
bearing half from this deck to that deck, whenever that time came. It
is certainly no big job for me to continue installing the bearing, as
the consensus seems to agree is wise.
One more point though...I heard off-list that on at least one occasion
a flaperon became bound up during a high-G maneuver, and this was
attributed to the flaperon horn bearing binding. (Hope I translated
this incidence correctly).
Lynn
On Tuesday, February 22, 2005, at 06:05 PM, Fox5flyer wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer"
> <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
>
> I agree with Steve. The plans on my S5 included the bearing and I
> fabricated and installed it according to instructions. Personally, I
> can't
> see any merit in not installing it. That bearing takes the load when
> the
> flaperon is under stress and during heavy turbulence, in my opinion it
> does
> its job by giving support to the flaperon right where it's needed most.
> They weigh almost nothing and aren't difficult to install, so I can't
> see
> why anyone would want to leave them off.
> Deke
>
>
>> szakreski@shaw.ca writes:
>> opinion, I would say be careful on this one. That bearing obviously
>> has
> a
>> purpose, probably flutter control. If it was me, I certainly would
>> not
>> delete it.
>>
>>
>> Question on this bearing. Do the model 5's and 7's use the flapperon
>> bearing at the turtledeck? Second question. Am I operating on poor
> memory or
>> didn't we discuss this many moons ago and wasn't it discussed that
>> the
> 4's and
>> above could do without the bearing. I also seem to remember Skystars
>> involvement and their concurrence that the bearing wasn't necessary.
> Somebody with a
>> better memory please help me here.
>> I agree that the bearing has or had an obvious purpose. On the
>> other
>> hand, if later design/testing has proved the bearing unnecessary,
>> then it
> is
>> perfectly OK to delete.
>> I find that particular bearing a bit of a pain in my situation. I
> don't
>> think I would have deleted it on my own without some concurrence.
> Actually,
>> mine is still there just not fastened.
>>
>> Don Smythe
>>
>>
>
>
Message 24
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Allan Aaron" <aaaron@tvp.com.au>
I fly an avid and the builders manual is very explicit in saying how
important the bearing is and how well it ought to fit (slop). Don't
know if it's the same for the kf but suspect it might be. If it were
me, I'd install it.
Allan
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw"
I feel they might stop some undesired deflection at some time. Also the
designer deemed them worth installing and they don't do extra work for
the
fun of it. That's the way I see it for me. As for you well you are the
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Full Lotus floats |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: DPREMGOOD@aol.com
Hello Thor,
I once saw someone in a Bush Caddy land on snow with Full Lotus floats. Here
are some observations I had as I watched him attempt to taxi after landing;
1) His ground handling seemed limited at best.
2) The airplane had a tendency to drift (skid) sideways during taxi in a
direct crosswind of approximately10 knots. A lot of rudder correction needed to
maintain direction.
3) He had virtually zero control when he went over patches of ice.
If you are interested I can send you a few pictures of my friend's Kitfox on
skis (my Kitfox is still under construction) and pictures of my J3 Kitten on
skis as well.
Regards,
Doug Remoundos
Classic IV
Montreal, Canada
Message 26
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Hi Rex-
Thanks for the input....geez, this thing went from three "no bearings"
votes, to...well, to paraphrase Clint Eastwood, "I kinda lost track
myself in all the excitement"....but I think overwhelmingly the vote is
to keep the bearings, and in my case to keep installing them.
Lynn
On Tuesday, February 22, 2005, at 07:41 PM, Rex & Jan Shaw wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw"
> <rexjan@bigpond.com>
>
> As an aside, are a lot of builders/fliers reluctant to answer some of
> these technical questions, for fear that "big brother" might be reading
> the list? Or do we have a lot of non-builders on the list who don't
> know what they've got in their planes?
>
> Hi ! Lynn,
> well I for one don't like to comment on something I know
> nothing about especially if it might lead someone in the wrong
> direction. Re
> the bearings, I do have them on my plane. I would not remove them
> because I
> figure there is no point as I get no binding problems or any other
> problems.
> I feel they might stop some undesired deflection at some time. Also the
> designer deemed them worth installing and they don't do extra work for
> the
> fun of it. That's the way I see it for me. As for you well you are the
> builder and you can make your own decision. Sure I understand you are
> seeking comments to help you make an informed decision. Incidentally my
> plane was built by a mechanical engineer and it's the second Kitfox he
> built. He aslo won a best built plane award with it.
> Rex Shaw
> Australia
> Kitfox
> Classic
> MKIV Speedster/582
> rexjan@bigpond.com
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: radiator flap or three way valve |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: James Shumaker <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
John
I used part 13521 which they call a rotax 912-914 engine oil remote thermostat.
It is in my 2005 catalog on page 61. As I mentioned, it was a bit of work to
install. As Lowell said, his baffles weigh less and seem to work quite well.
I just did not have any room to install them and then my oil cooler sprung a
leak and the new on was a different size and the baffles really did not fit then.
If you decide to go with Lowell's baffles, I have a brand new set he sent
me that I could be talked out of cheap.
Jim Shumaker
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