---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 02/27/05: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:49 AM - Re: Pitch/prop-angle/rpm (Michel Verheughe) 2. 06:29 AM - Re: NSI CAP (Peter Graichen) 3. 06:58 AM - Re: Got my Classic 4 was NSI CAP (Giovanni Day) 4. 08:48 AM - Re: Got my Classic 4 was NSI CAP (John Perry) 5. 08:48 AM - Re: Got my Classic 4 was NSI CAP (Mdkitfox@aol.com) 6. 09:35 AM - List Integrity (Fox5flyer) 7. 09:57 AM - Wing Tips (Paul Peerenboom) 8. 10:28 AM - Re: Wing Tips (Bruce Harrington) 9. 10:52 AM - Static port. WAS: Pitch/prop-angle/rpm (Michel Verheughe) 10. 11:02 AM - Re: header tank wanted (Lynn Matteson) 11. 11:16 AM - Re: Wing Tips (Clint Bazzill) 12. 11:18 AM - Re: Static port. WAS: Pitch/prop-angle/rpm (Lynn Matteson) 13. 01:52 PM - Re: Static port. WAS: Pitch/prop-angle/rpm (Glenn Horne) 14. 02:42 PM - Re: List Integrity (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 15. 03:01 PM - Cargo Pod Mounting (stevem) 16. 04:54 PM - Re: Static port. WAS: (joakley@ida.net) 17. 06:41 PM - Re: Static port. WAS: Pitch/prop-angle/rpm (Wwillyard@aol.com) 18. 08:04 PM - Re: Static port. WAS: Pitch/prop-angle/rpm (jimshumaker) 19. 08:22 PM - Re: Got my Classic 4 was NSI CAP (Giovanni Day) 20. 08:31 PM - Re: Got my Classic 4 was NSI CAP (Giovanni Day) 21. 09:07 PM - Re: Cargo Pod Mounting (Jeff Smathers) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:49:32 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Pitch/prop-angle/rpm --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Guy Buchanan wrote: > OK. Did you get the equation converting inches to degrees? That should be > useful as it's my understanding that prop manufacturers use the theoretical > no-slip pitch to size their props. Well, in his worked out example for my plane, Torgeir used the same formula as you gave me earlier, Guy, i.e: P = 2 * pi * r * sin(theta) for no slippage. But, on the web site he gave us, there is a "No Slip Propeller Estimator" table that is also very interesting. Unfortunately it is not so good graphic, the numbers are a bit difficult to read. But I tried to work out an algorithm out of this and I came to the following: RPM = MPH * PITCH * 0.737 (that should be easy to remember, 737 is engraved in all aviators' memory! :-) So, it means that with a 38 inches pitch propeller, I should reach my Vne (100 MPH) at 2,800 RPM. Hum, interesting! If you then consider what is said earlier in the article, that actual pitch is about 85% of that, due to prop efficiency. We get then: 2,800 / 0.85 = 3,290 RPM, which is ... my RPM red line! Looks like my prop is right-on-the-spot, then. Torgeir, I'll probably fly (before the snow comes) today and check my airspeed. Talk to you later. Cheers, Michel ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:29:15 AM PST US From: "Peter Graichen" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: NSI CAP --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Peter Graichen" Giovanni: Have you listened to their recording? For instance they are not there or don't answer their phone on Fridays. Also keep in mind that they are on PST. I have learned that it is best to call them after lunch, not first thing in the morning. I will admit that I have learned not to leave messages; return rate is low. Peter K. Graichen http://home.neo.rr.com/n10pg/kitfox.htm Peter, I am just telling you like it is. I called and got a machine and left multiple messages. I never got through and never got a call back, period. That is all I can say. Giovanni Day ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:58:03 AM PST US From: "Giovanni Day" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Got my Classic 4 was NSI CAP --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Giovanni Day" Peter, Are you suggesting my hearing is bad. YES, I have listened to the recording! How do you think I knew to leave a message? I called there times a day for a week. They have now had three weeks to reply to at lease 5 voice messages left. I am done with NSI and done kicking a dead horse. I finally got the classic 4 I purchased on Ebay home last night. It is covered and painted, has a new 582 blue head and is complete except for a prop. The work done so far is very good. I will be replacing the 582 with a 912. It need a bunch of assembly but IMHO all the major stuff is done. I had to drive from west KY to Washington, DC to get it. Made the trip in two days. 804 miles each way. I am fired up to get started on this plane. The list has already been a big help. I look forward to getting to know everyone on the list better. THANKS Giovanni Day Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Peter Graichen Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: NSI CAP --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Peter Graichen" Giovanni: Have you listened to their recording? For instance they are not there or don't answer their phone on Fridays. Also keep in mind that they are on PST. I have learned that it is best to call them after lunch, not first thing in the morning. I will admit that I have learned not to leave messages; return rate is low. Peter K. Graichen http://home.neo.rr.com/n10pg/kitfox.htm Peter, I am just telling you like it is. I called and got a machine and left multiple messages. I never got through and never got a call back, period. That is all I can say. Giovanni Day ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:48:12 AM PST US From: "John Perry" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Got my Classic 4 was NSI CAP --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Perry" Out of curiosity why are you getting rid of the 582. I have been flying mine and love it with the 582 lite weight easy maintenance and great mileage now with proper jetting and c box /prop combo . Just wondering . Take care fly safe fly low fly slow John Perry Kitfox 2 N718PD eskflyer@pld.com 620-493-3124 I will be replacing the 582 with a 912. I am fired up to get started on this plane. The list has already been a big help. I look forward to getting to know everyone on the list better. THANKS ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:48:44 AM PST US From: Mdkitfox@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Got my Classic 4 was NSI CAP --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mdkitfox@aol.com Giovanni, Congratulations on your purchase! Enjoy the ride! Whose airplane did you buy? Do not archive Rick Weiss Series V Speedster N39RW, 912S ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:35:04 AM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Kitfox-List: List Integrity --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" Good morning everybody. I got home last night to several emails regarding my post on Friday. Some were supportive and some were not so supportive. It didn't surprise me. I was even accused of getting some sort of kickback from NSI! This list is made up of multiple personalities and people are entitled to their own opinions. My reason for this post is not to defend myself nor or justify anything. It's just to clear up a couple of things. Don and I have been managing the List for a long time and have been members a lot longer. Sometimes things go smoothly and our workload is low, other times it can get very demanding and uses up much of our time. Prior to assuming List administration we've seen the list denegrate to pure chaos when the mud slinging started and have seen members leave in droves because they felt it was turning into a tabloid with very little meaningful information available. When we took over the management we decided that in the spirit of keeping the list integrity safe, when we see a bashing session in the making that we'd nip it in the bud before it gets out of control. I'm not talking about people who are relating their own personal experiences in a factual manner. We all want to hear about that regardless which vendor it is, both positive, negative, and neutral. It helps us all make informed decisions. What we don't like to see is when someone just "throws a cat in the dog pen" then steps back to enjoy the action and when things slow down a bit they throw another one in. We've learned to spot these and we try to take action early enough to keep things under control. Usually when we observe what we feel is someone trying to stir things up for the sole pupose of creating action, we give the person a private polite warning. Sometimes that works, but other times it's ignored. Then there are times that we feel the whole list would benefit from the warning and in that case it's done publicly. It's always a judgement call and being human, our judgement may not always be 100 percent perfect, but we do our best. Our loyalties are not to Skystar, any other vendor, nor any particular list member. Our loyalty is to this List and to ensure that it endures. So, to recap, we can talk about anything on this list that is even remotely Kitfox related, whether it's Skystar, IVO, NSI, insurance companies, or whatever. The list is almost endless. Just try to keep the posts factual. Avoid second and third-hand "I heard somewhere" type of information that you can't back up and will obviously get some heated reaction. Remember, you'll be passing on information that is probably inaccurate and more than likely just plain untrue. If it happened to you personally or you have first hand knowlege of it, then by all means share it with everybody. If one person is unhappy with their product for whatever reason and another is happy and satisfied, don't attack the one that is happy. When you're feeling emotional or frustrated about something and you compose a message, let it sit for awhile before hitting the send button. You may feel a bit more calm later on and want to do some editing before sending it out. Deke Morisse List Janitor ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:57:12 AM PST US From: "Paul Peerenboom" Subject: Kitfox-List: Wing Tips --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Peerenboom" I have a model IV with a 912 that I am recovering the wings only at this time. It has the old droop tips and would like to clean them up. People have told me that they only add drag plus limit visibility. Has anyone done this? Pros? Cons? Thanks Paul ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:28:35 AM PST US From: "Bruce Harrington" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wing Tips --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" Hi Paul, Way back when I had my IV-1200, I managed to take out a 4x4 road sign with one droop tip. I replaced both tips with 3" or 4" insulation foam (this was pink) epoxied inside the end rib cap strips. I covered the foam with epoxy, then painted. Worked great. No more banged head, no noticable change in performance. Cheers, bh ex-N194KF 582ed IV-1200, 800+ hrs - > I have a model IV with a 912 that I am recovering the wings only at this > time. It has the old droop tips and would like to clean them up. > People have told me that they only add drag plus limit visibility. Has > anyone done this? Pros? Cons? > Thanks Paul ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:52:09 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: Static port. WAS: Pitch/prop-angle/rpm --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Torgeir Mortensen wrote: > Try a two way path with your GPS, the two way is better (easier) to > handle, do this test in calm air to verify your AS indicator. You are right, Torgeir. I went flying today and, indeed, my airspeed indicator is much too high. After several runs crosswind, I average my indicated speed of 80 MPH to be in reality, 70 MPH. Then, on the downwind leg of the landing, I also thought that 1,000 ft AGL was closer to the ground than what I was used to. It all points out to one thing: After changing the 582 for a Jabiru, I have a lesser cockpit pressure. I am not sure why because my firewall is airtight (as far as I can see). Mind you, the large scoop I made for the cooling surely creates a low pressure ahead of the firewall. Maybe it is not as tight as I thought. In any case, the remedy to my problem is then: A static port. Hum, I'll have to connect the ASI, the VVI, the altimeter and the transponder's alti-encoder. Then run it aft to the tail, one static port on each side, right? Where do I get the hardware? Plastic pipe is easy. The actual ports can be improvised from some kind of fitting. But I have three instruments that need a fitting to match the thread in them. With my luck, I am sure that those threads are in ... er, Mongolian fathoms! :-) BTW, it looks like the 60 by 38 prop is correct for me, then. Cheers, Michel PS: Mongolia being a landlocked country, I think that "Mongolian fathoms" was quite funny, don't you? :-) ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:02:45 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: header tank wanted From: Lynn Matteson --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson I've talked to Deke, and this list again is a winner! Thanks, Deke. Lynn On Saturday, February 26, 2005, at 07:25 PM, Fox5flyer wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > > > Lynn, I've got one. Price is right. Free. Contact me offlist and > I'll > give you the lowdown. > Deke > > >> I'm looking for the later header tank for the IV.... ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:16:17 AM PST US From: "Clint Bazzill" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Wing Tips --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clint Bazzill" I have a Kitfox Iv-1200 with drooped tips. Pretty fast airplane, no problem with visibility. 1000 hours and going. Clint ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:18:57 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Static port. WAS: Pitch/prop-angle/rpm From: Lynn Matteson --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson I just recently installed my ONE static port per SS's 1994 instructions. Do I need another on the other side? I know this helps in slip/skid encounters, but how necessary is the second port? Life-saving, or merely just a little more accurate at these times? Lynn On Sunday, February 27, 2005, at 01:44 PM, Michel Verheughe wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > In any case, the remedy to my problem is then: A static port. Hum, > I'll have to > connect the ASI, the VVI, the altimeter and the transponder's > alti-encoder. > Then run it aft to the tail, one static port on each side, right? > Cheers, > Michel ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:52:42 PM PST US From: "Glenn Horne" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Static port. WAS: Pitch/prop-angle/rpm --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Glenn Horne" Looking at -Static System Installation Instruction (P/N 10105.000) for all models put out by SKY STAR it only shows installation of one (1) static port. Will install only one (1) on my Model II. Glenn Horne Model II 582. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Static port. WAS: Pitch/prop-angle/rpm > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson > > I just recently installed my ONE static port per SS's 1994 > instructions. Do I need another on the other side? I know this helps in > slip/skid encounters, but how necessary is the second port? > Life-saving, or merely just a little more accurate at these times? > > Lynn > > On Sunday, February 27, 2005, at 01:44 PM, Michel Verheughe wrote: > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > >> In any case, the remedy to my problem is then: A static port. Hum, >> I'll have to >> connect the ASI, the VVI, the altimeter and the transponder's >> alti-encoder. >> Then run it aft to the tail, one static port on each side, right? >> Cheers, >> Michel > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:42:42 PM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: List Integrity --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com In a message dated 2/27/2005 12:36:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, morid@northland.lib.mi.us writes: It didn't surprise me. I was even accused of getting some sort of kickback from NSI! This list is made up of multiple personalities and people are entitled to their own opinions. My reason for this post is not to defend Deke, Sounds like some of those people didn't realize you were the "LIST MANAGER". That's sort of like spitting in the face of a Cop who just pulled you over for speeding. Not too smart. Either way, I feel your actions recently and in the past have been right on target. You and Don, as usual, deserve a big hand and many thanks. Do Not Archive Don Smythe ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:01:09 PM PST US From: "stevem" Subject: Kitfox-List: Cargo Pod Mounting --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "stevem" I recently purchased a standard Cargo Pod for a KitFox Series V that I will be mounting on a Series III. Is there anything important I need to watch out for while fabricating and mounting this pod? Thanks in advance. Steve Magdic N490PA ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:54:16 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Static port. WAS: From: joakley@ida.net --> Kitfox-List message posted by: joakley@ida.net hi kids. for those of you that are still building, I installed a pitot-static single unit in the wing and it works great. No holes or tubes in the fabric. John Oakley ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:41:57 PM PST US From: Wwillyard@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Static port. WAS: Pitch/prop-angle/rpm --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Wwillyard@aol.com Lynn, I install the single static port and have observed no problems as a result. Bill W. Classic IV ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:04:33 PM PST US From: "jimshumaker" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Static port. WAS: Pitch/prop-angle/rpm --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker" Congatulations on finding your airspeed problem. I had the same experiance with my 912. Only one static port is needed to cure the problem. I added the Skystar static port and found it to actually be easier than I expected. It is well worth the trouble. Jim Shumaker > You are right, Torgeir. > I went flying today and, indeed, my airspeed indicator is much too high. > After > several runs crosswind, I average my indicated speed of 80 MPH to be in > reality, 70 MPH. > Then, on the downwind leg of the landing, I also thought that 1,000 ft AGL > was > closer to the ground than what I was used to. > It all points out to one thing: After changing the 582 for a Jabiru, I > have a > lesser cockpit pressure. I am not sure why because my firewall is airtight > (as > far as I can see). Mind you, the large scoop I made for the cooling surely > creates a low pressure ahead of the firewall. Maybe it is not as tight as > I thought. > In any case, the remedy to my problem is then: A static port. Hum, I'll > have to > connect the ASI, the VVI, the altimeter and the transponder's > alti-encoder. > Then run it aft to the tail, one static port on each side, right? > Where do I get the hardware? Plastic pipe is easy. The actual ports can be > improvised from some kind of fitting. But I have three instruments that > need a > fitting to match the thread in them. With my luck, I am sure that those > threads > are in ... er, Mongolian fathoms! :-) > > BTW, it looks like the 60 by 38 prop is correct for me, then. > > Cheers, > Michel > > PS: Mongolia being a landlocked country, I think that "Mongolian fathoms" > was > quite funny, don't you? :-) > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:22:38 PM PST US From: "Giovanni Day" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Got my Classic 4 was NSI CAP --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Giovanni Day" John, I have a Kolb MKIII with the 912 on it. Given that I already have the 912, who would not make the swap? I am not saying the 582 engines are poor performers, I just prefer the 912 since I already have it. I love the Kolb but it is loud due to the dirty air of the wings going into the prop, IMHO. My Wife and Son want something a little less noisy if they are going to continue to fly with me. I want to share my love for flying with them so this is why I have purchased the KF and will sell the Kolb. Thanks for asking. Giovanni Day Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Perry Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Got my Classic 4 was NSI CAP --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Perry" Out of curiosity why are you getting rid of the 582. I have been flying mine and love it with the 582 lite weight easy maintenance and great mileage now with proper jetting and c box /prop combo . Just wondering . Take care fly safe fly low fly slow John Perry Kitfox 2 N718PD eskflyer@pld.com 620-493-3124 I will be replacing the 582 with a 912. I am fired up to get started on this plane. The list has already been a big help. I look forward to getting to know everyone on the list better. THANKS ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:31:32 PM PST US From: "Giovanni Day" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Got my Classic 4 was NSI CAP --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Giovanni Day" Rick, I purchased N7552K still an uncompleted kit from Ken Field. It will take me a few months to finish up. I will be getting the 582 moved to the Kolb and getting her ready to sell before finishing the KF. Thanks for asking. Giovanni Day Do not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mdkitfox@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Got my Classic 4 was NSI CAP --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mdkitfox@aol.com Giovanni, Congratulations on your purchase! Enjoy the ride! Whose airplane did you buy? Do not archive Rick Weiss Series V Speedster N39RW, 912S ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:07:41 PM PST US From: Jeff Smathers Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cargo Pod Mounting --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jeff Smathers Make sure your bungee landing gear can pivot without hitting the support pod's support brackets. Jeff Smathers stevem wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "stevem" > > I recently purchased a standard Cargo Pod for a KitFox Series V that > I will be mounting on a Series III. Is there anything important > I need to watch out for while fabricating and mounting this pod? > Thanks in advance. > Steve Magdic > N490PA >