Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:12 AM - Re: Classic IV interior (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
2. 12:34 AM - Re: Static Ports (Michel Verheughe)
3. 03:40 AM - Re: New gas tanks - rinse them with MEK (Cliffford Begnaud)
4. 03:45 AM - Re: Static Ports (Michel Verheughe)
5. 03:56 AM - SV: [off-topic] Terminology (Michel Verheughe)
6. 05:02 AM - Re: New gas tanks - rinse them with MEK (Clem Nichols)
7. 05:47 AM - Re: New gas tanks - rinse them with MEK (Cliffford Begnaud)
8. 06:24 AM - Re: Rotax Oil Injection Tank (Guy Buchanan)
9. 06:48 AM - Re: New gas tanks - rinse them with MEK (Lynn Matteson)
10. 06:57 AM - Re: EIS/Rotax Tach Installation (Guy Buchanan)
11. 06:57 AM - Re: 582 oil tank (Guy Buchanan)
12. 07:10 AM - Re: New gas tanks - rinse them with MEK (Cliffford Begnaud)
13. 07:12 AM - Any Kitfoxes for sale in Northeast U.S. - New England area?? (Clifford Dow)
14. 07:32 AM - Re: 582 oil tank (Pete Sigrist)
15. 07:39 AM - Re: EIS/Rotax Tach Installation (Marco Menezes)
16. 07:41 AM - Re: New gas tanks - rinse them with MEK (jareds)
17. 08:07 AM - Re: New gas tanks - rinse them with MEK (Cliffford Begnaud)
18. 08:59 AM - Re: Rotax Oil Injection Tank (Fox5flyer)
19. 09:40 AM - [Off-Topic] To Marco Menezes (Michel Verheughe)
20. 10:17 AM - Re: Re: Manual Pitch Trim (was Jackscrew) (Mdkitfox@aol.com)
21. 10:20 AM - Re: New gas tanks - rinse them with MEK (Randy Daughenbaugh)
22. 10:50 AM - How long? was: New gas tanks - rinse them with MEK (Cliffford Begnaud)
23. 11:19 AM - Re: How long? (Randy Daughenbaugh)
24. 11:42 AM - Re: Re: How long? (Richard Hutson)
25. 12:23 PM - Re: low fuel sensor revisited (Torgeir Mortensen)
26. 01:12 PM - Re: low fuel sensor revisited (Lynn Matteson)
27. 01:32 PM - Re: Re: How long? (Cliffford Begnaud)
28. 01:59 PM - Re: Rotax Oil Injection Tank (Guy Buchanan)
29. 02:44 PM - Re: low fuel sensor revisited (Torgeir Mortensen)
30. 04:23 PM - twisted wire or elec connectors (jareds)
31. 08:04 PM - Re: Re: How long? (Randy Daughenbaugh)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Classic IV interior |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 3/8/2005 9:03:57 PM Eastern Standard Time,
brettandsandy@numail.org writes:
I am looking for feedback on how to finish the interior on my classic IV.
I have talked to Sam Knight and also Skystar. Are there other options?
The full blown all the frills from either is over $1000.
Do I'll have carpet, kick panels, stick covers and so-on or do you just
stay with the basic seat/ baggage and manufacture some of your own pieces.
I used Poly Fiber on the inside and painted it. Put it on the interior door
frames and kick panels. Had to glue in a strip of wood at the bottom of the
side panels near the floorboards to attach the fabric to. I also wrapped
the triangular areas behind the pilot/passengers head. All for way less than
a
$1000. Before wrapping the triangular areas, I filled with 1/2" polystryene
blocks. I glued on a small piece of 1/8" plywood on the back side. This is
where the wing tank filters/shutoff vales attach. They are hidden behind
the panels but easy to see for preflight. I carpeted the floor and up the fwd
seat bulkhead (spring gear/no bungee) with thin lightweight outdoor carpet
from Lowes. I also filled all the openings in that seat bulkhead with the same
1/2" foam blocks.
Don Smythe
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Static Ports |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
> From: John Perry [eskflyer@pld.com]
> DO NOT BLOW OR SUCK ON THE STATIC PORT OR IT WILL RUIN YOUR GAUGES .
Ok, John. But Skystar installation manual for the static port says, (and I cut
'n paste from the PDF document):
"With this tube in your mouth, gently suck on
the static tube while watching the flight instruments; after applying suction
to the tube, stopper the tube end with your tongue, let your breath out, and
repeat the sucking process until the altimeter has registered as close to a 2000'
increase over your initial field elevation as possible"
Cheers,
Michel, a gentle sucker! :-)
do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: New gas tanks - rinse them with MEK |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cliffford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
Randy,
There are three things that I am aware of that can be found coming out of
Kitfox fuel tanks.
First, and the most well known, is Kreme. Kreme flaking off can completely
block the flow of fuel from your tank.
Second is "mold release". This is a substance used to allow the tank and
internal parts to be easily removed from the mold when they are formed. It
will show up as transparent particles in your filters and fuel lines if it
is able to get past the finger strainers. There can be enough of this stuff
in your tanks to make it prudent that you remove your finger strainers and
clean them periodically for the first few hundred hours of flying. On the
finger strainers, this stuff will be both flaky and in clumps. It looks and
feels like clear silicon caulk.
Finally, be aware that the internal baffles in the fuel tanks have holes
punched in them to allow fuel to flow through. The holes in the baffles have
raw edges allowing fiberglass fibers to enter your fuel system. These fibers
are very small and you can't see them. If you have the glass purolator
filters between your wing tanks and header tank, you may notice a slight
yellowing of the filters. This is from the fiberglass particles and it can
severely restrict the flow of fuel. I suspect that this contributed to the
yellowish varnish found in your carbs. These fibers will likely continue to
be released for several hundred hours. Change/clean your filters OFTEN!!
Don't ask how I know about these problems...
Best Regards,
Cliff
S5, Lyc 0-235
ps, I really do plan to go see your new diggs this year
> About two months ago I reported to the list that both chokes on my new
912S
> were sticking very solidly and I got a number of suggestions. For
> background, the problem was NOT in the cables. The choke on the Bing 64
is
> flat plate that turns against another flat surface and when certain holes
> line up they open up what is essentially another carburetor which just
> produces a very rich mixture.
>
> Someone (Fred Shipp?) suggested that it was something leaching from the
> fiberglass tanks. This seems to be the problem. I drained the gas from
the
> tanks and burned it in my pickup. I took the choke assemblies apart and
> cleaned a yellow "varnish" from the flat surfaces (reported at that time).
> Now, 15 hours later, the problem has not reappeared. I did put new fuel
> filters in about 5 hours after draining the contaminated fuel.
>
> I suggest that builders with new tanks rinse the tanks with acetone or MEK
> several times to get this stuff (incompletely cured resin?) out of the
tank
> before you put them in the wing. Take precautions to prevent fires! My
> tanks were late 1999 vintage, but I suspect that this could happen at any
> time.
>
> Randy
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Static Ports |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
> From: Torgeir Mortensen [torgemor@online.no]
> The instruments shall normally always be completely separated from the
> cockpit atmosphere, this is the idea about getting the accurate reading.
Thank you, Torgeir. Yes, it makes sense, especially in pressurized planes. I still
haven't had a chance to test individually my instruments but, from the fittings
I bought (from TESS, if you have that company in Tromsoe) I realized that
they are not entirely air-tight either. They are "snap-on" fittings that are
used to pneumatic control up to 25 bars. I think that they are air-tight at
those pressures but not at a minimal lower pressure. I have now exchanged them
for another type fitting that is conical and should be much tighter.
Next week-end is forecast bad WX, a low is moving in from the north. But as soon
as I get a chance to test this again, I'll let you know.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | [off-topic] Terminology |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
> From: Milt's Kitfox Stuff [flysly@erols.com]
> I really didn't use it in my line of work, the course & speed we "made good"
> was just a bi-product of blowing stuff up.
Thanks, Milt. It means then that "- made good" is most likely a maritime term.
It also means that the English navigation terminology is not standard. It does't
matter as long as we come to destination, using our own system, doesn't it?
:-)
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: New gas tanks - rinse them with MEK |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
How do you remove and clean the tank finger strainers?
Thanks
Clem Nichols
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cliffford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: New gas tanks - rinse them with MEK
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cliffford Begnaud"
> <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
>
> Randy,
> There are three things that I am aware of that can be found coming out of
> Kitfox fuel tanks.
> First, and the most well known, is Kreme. Kreme flaking off can completely
> block the flow of fuel from your tank.
>
> Second is "mold release". This is a substance used to allow the tank and
> internal parts to be easily removed from the mold when they are formed. It
> will show up as transparent particles in your filters and fuel lines if it
> is able to get past the finger strainers. There can be enough of this
> stuff
> in your tanks to make it prudent that you remove your finger strainers and
> clean them periodically for the first few hundred hours of flying. On the
> finger strainers, this stuff will be both flaky and in clumps. It looks
> and
> feels like clear silicon caulk.
>
> Finally, be aware that the internal baffles in the fuel tanks have holes
> punched in them to allow fuel to flow through. The holes in the baffles
> have
> raw edges allowing fiberglass fibers to enter your fuel system. These
> fibers
> are very small and you can't see them. If you have the glass purolator
> filters between your wing tanks and header tank, you may notice a slight
> yellowing of the filters. This is from the fiberglass particles and it can
> severely restrict the flow of fuel. I suspect that this contributed to the
> yellowish varnish found in your carbs. These fibers will likely continue
> to
> be released for several hundred hours. Change/clean your filters OFTEN!!
> Don't ask how I know about these problems...
> Best Regards,
> Cliff
> S5, Lyc 0-235
> ps, I really do plan to go see your new diggs this year
>
>> About two months ago I reported to the list that both chokes on my new
> 912S
>> were sticking very solidly and I got a number of suggestions. For
>> background, the problem was NOT in the cables. The choke on the Bing 64
> is
>> flat plate that turns against another flat surface and when certain holes
>> line up they open up what is essentially another carburetor which just
>> produces a very rich mixture.
>>
>> Someone (Fred Shipp?) suggested that it was something leaching from the
>> fiberglass tanks. This seems to be the problem. I drained the gas from
> the
>> tanks and burned it in my pickup. I took the choke assemblies apart and
>> cleaned a yellow "varnish" from the flat surfaces (reported at that
>> time).
>> Now, 15 hours later, the problem has not reappeared. I did put new fuel
>> filters in about 5 hours after draining the contaminated fuel.
>>
>> I suggest that builders with new tanks rinse the tanks with acetone or
>> MEK
>> several times to get this stuff (incompletely cured resin?) out of the
> tank
>> before you put them in the wing. Take precautions to prevent fires! My
>> tanks were late 1999 vintage, but I suspect that this could happen at any
>> time.
>>
>> Randy
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.0 - Release Date: 3/8/2005
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: New gas tanks - rinse them with MEK |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cliffford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
Your fuel line attaches to a fitting that is screwed into the finger
strainer on the tank. Remove fuel line, unscrew finger strainer, clean with
gasoline, re-install....
You may or may not have to unscrew the fitting out of the strainer before
removing the finger strainer.
Cliff
>
> How do you remove and clean the tank finger strainers?
>
> Thanks
> Clem Nichols
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cliffford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: New gas tanks - rinse them with MEK
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax Oil Injection Tank |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 03:04 PM 3/8/2005 -0700, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Rex Hefferan <kitfox-m2@earthlink.net>
>
>Try this link:
>http://www.ehow.com/buy_2109_nalgene-bottle.html
>
>Rex
Thanks Rex. I've got no problems getting the Nalgene bottle, but Skystar
has a boss for the drain welded to the bottom. I'd need to replicate that,
which I can do with a lot of work. I was just hoping to avoid that.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: New gas tanks - rinse them with MEK |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
This is just a guess, but I'd assume that you'd drain the tanks through
the header tank, then either tip the opposite wing up to cause any fuel
to leave the strainer area, or swing the wing back (assuming
taildragger) after draining. The more I think about it, I'd swing the
wings back to insure that all residual fuel left the strainer area.
You might even want to pull the strainers to clean them, then screw in
a suitable plain fitting and hose, return the wings to normal position,
or raise one at a time to allow crud to flow out "unstrained"....might
be a good time to do a little flushing, too. (let's see if anybody
agrees : ) )
Lynn
On Wednesday, March 9, 2005, at 08:01 AM, Clem Nichols wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
>
> How do you remove and clean the tank finger strainers?
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: EIS/Rotax Tach Installation |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 09:41 AM 3/6/2005 -0800, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
>
>Hi Gary. I've just been through the tach wiring thing. Use the gray wire
>if you have one. If you don't or it doesn't work, tap into one of the 2
>lighting coil wires (thick yellow and yellow/black) that go to your
>rectifier. Leading Edge techs say these will work too. I presume its the
>same for all tachs using ignition pulse to count RPMs.
...
>Marco Menezes
>KF II N99KX
Thanks Marco. I've got the EIS and they say to use the two alternator wires
for tach, though they don't know which one. That's what I'm trying to find out.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: 582 oil tank |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 06:51 PM 3/8/2005 -0800, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Pete Sigrist" <psigrist@cox.net>
>
>On this site you will (after some searching) find a 2.4 liter oil tank for
>a 582. Don't jury-rig it, use the proper part.
>
>
> http://www.leadingedge-airfoils.com/index.htm
Thanks Pete,
I didn't want to jury rig; the Nalgene bottle is a standard
Skystar part. Has anyone used the Rotax tank on a K-IV? Does it fit under
the cowl and still gravity feed?
Thanks,
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: New gas tanks - rinse them with MEK |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cliffford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
Yes Lynn,
I forgot to mention it, but it's a good idea to flush out the tanks with the
strainers removed.
Cliff
>
> This is just a guess, but I'd assume that you'd drain the tanks through
> the header tank, then either tip the opposite wing up to cause any fuel
> to leave the strainer area, or swing the wing back (assuming
> taildragger) after draining. The more I think about it, I'd swing the
> wings back to insure that all residual fuel left the strainer area.
> You might even want to pull the strainers to clean them, then screw in
> a suitable plain fitting and hose, return the wings to normal position,
> or raise one at a time to allow crud to flow out "unstrained"....might
> be a good time to do a little flushing, too. (let's see if anybody
> agrees : ) )
>
> Lynn
> On Wednesday, March 9, 2005, at 08:01 AM, Clem Nichols wrote:
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
> >
> > How do you remove and clean the tank finger strainers?
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Any Kitfoxes for sale in Northeast U.S. - New England area?? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Clifford Dow <cdowjr@yahoo.com>
I wanted to check once again to see if one knows of any kitfoxes for sale in the
northeast
i'm looking to buy one.
99% finished with no engine would be good also? But needs to be not too far from
Massachusetts area - 5 hours drive is ok? I'm in Maine
pls e-mail me off the list - cdowjr@yahoo.com
207-329-9468
thanks
cliff
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: 582 oil tank |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Pete Sigrist" <psigrist@cox.net>
Sorry Guy, I didnt' realize that the KF uses a different oil bottle. My 582
is on a Rans S-12 and uses the Rotax oil tank. I wonder why that would not
on the KF installation?
pete
> > http://www.leadingedge-airfoils.com/index.htm
> Thanks Pete,
> I didn't want to jury rig; the Nalgene bottle is a standard
> Skystar part. Has anyone used the Rotax tank on a K-IV? Does it fit under
> the cowl and still gravity feed?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Guy Buchanan
> K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: EIS/Rotax Tach Installation |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
Hi Gary.
Since it's AC coming from the alternator, shouldn't matter which of the two (yel
or yel/blk) you use, should it? Presumably second wire from tach goes to ground?
What do you think Rex?
Marco Menezes
KF 2 N99KX
Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan
At 09:41 AM 3/6/2005 -0800, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes
>
>Hi Gary. I've just been through the tach wiring thing. Use the gray wire
>if you have one. If you don't or it doesn't work, tap into one of the 2
>lighting coil wires (thick yellow and yellow/black) that go to your
>rectifier. Leading Edge techs say these will work too. I presume its the
>same for all tachs using ignition pulse to count RPMs.
...
>Marco Menezes
>KF II N99KX
Thanks Marco. I've got the EIS and they say to use the two alternator wires
for tach, though they don't know which one. That's what I'm trying to find out.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
---------------------------------
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: New gas tanks - rinse them with MEK |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds <jareds@verizon.net>
Cliff.......... Best archive and tips I've seen in a long time.
You should get the $100 idea of the month....... course for those of us
that learned the hard way $100 doesnt begin to cover it!
Cliffford Begnaud wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cliffford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
>
>Randy,
>There are three things that I am aware of that can be found coming out of
>Kitfox fuel tanks.
>First, and the most well known, is Kreme. Kreme flaking off can completely
>block the flow of fuel from your tank.
>
>Second is "mold release". This is a substance used to allow the tank and
>internal parts to be easily removed from the mold when they are formed. It
>will show up as transparent particles in your filters and fuel lines if it
>is able to get past the finger strainers. There can be enough of this stuff
>in your tanks to make it prudent that you remove your finger strainers and
>clean them periodically for the first few hundred hours of flying. On the
>finger strainers, this stuff will be both flaky and in clumps. It looks and
>feels like clear silicon caulk.
>
>Finally, be aware that the internal baffles in the fuel tanks have holes
>punched in them to allow fuel to flow through. The holes in the baffles have
>raw edges allowing fiberglass fibers to enter your fuel system. These fibers
>are very small and you can't see them. If you have the glass purolator
>filters between your wing tanks and header tank, you may notice a slight
>yellowing of the filters. This is from the fiberglass particles and it can
>severely restrict the flow of fuel. I suspect that this contributed to the
>yellowish varnish found in your carbs. These fibers will likely continue to
>be released for several hundred hours. Change/clean your filters OFTEN!!
>Don't ask how I know about these problems...
>Best Regards,
>Cliff
>S5, Lyc 0-235
>ps, I really do plan to go see your new diggs this year
>
>
>
>>About two months ago I reported to the list that both chokes on my new
>>
>>
>912S
>
>
>>were sticking very solidly and I got a number of suggestions. For
>>background, the problem was NOT in the cables. The choke on the Bing 64
>>
>>
>is
>
>
>>flat plate that turns against another flat surface and when certain holes
>>line up they open up what is essentially another carburetor which just
>>produces a very rich mixture.
>>
>>Someone (Fred Shipp?) suggested that it was something leaching from the
>>fiberglass tanks. This seems to be the problem. I drained the gas from
>>
>>
>the
>
>
>>tanks and burned it in my pickup. I took the choke assemblies apart and
>>cleaned a yellow "varnish" from the flat surfaces (reported at that time).
>>Now, 15 hours later, the problem has not reappeared. I did put new fuel
>>filters in about 5 hours after draining the contaminated fuel.
>>
>>I suggest that builders with new tanks rinse the tanks with acetone or MEK
>>several times to get this stuff (incompletely cured resin?) out of the
>>
>>
>tank
>
>
>>before you put them in the wing. Take precautions to prevent fires! My
>>tanks were late 1999 vintage, but I suspect that this could happen at any
>>time.
>>
>>Randy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: New gas tanks - rinse them with MEK |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cliffford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
Thanks for the kind words, I'll take that in $20's..... ;-)
cliff
do not archive
> Cliff.......... Best archive and tips I've seen in a long time.
> You should get the $100 idea of the month....... course for those of us
> that learned the hard way $100 doesnt begin to cover it!
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax Oil Injection Tank |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
> Thanks Rex. I've got no problems getting the Nalgene bottle, but Skystar
> has a boss for the drain welded to the bottom. I'd need to replicate that,
> which I can do with a lot of work. I was just hoping to avoid that.
> Guy Buchanan
> K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Why not just drill a hole in the bottom of the tank and install an AN
Bulkhead fitting?
Deke
Message 19
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| Subject: | [Off-Topic] To Marco Menezes |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Marco, I have sent you the drawing of my skis at your private email address, at
yahoo.com. I have today received a non-delivery message from my ISP. Let me
know if you don't receive it. Maybe your email box is full or erratic.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Manual Pitch Trim (was Jackscrew) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mdkitfox@aol.com
Don,
Thanks for the help.
do not archive
Rick Weiss
Series V Speedster N39RW, 912S
Message 21
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| Subject: | New gas tanks - rinse them with MEK |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
I washed the tanks very, very well with soapy water emptying them through
paint filters until I got no more fiberglass, etc. out of them prior to
installing them in the wing. After drying them, I then rinsed them with
gasoline. But I probably didn't let the gas set in the tanks long enough.
(Partially polymerize resin, oligomers, are probably only marginally soluble
in gasoline.) I chose not to use the Kreme after the tanks passed the lung
pressured test for air leaks.
I am convinced that this stuff that caused the problem was dissolved in the
gasoline and only caused problems when some was left behind when the gas
evaporated from the warm closed chokes. I was not able to detect anything
on the filters. I do think that careful cleaning prior to installation will
solve most of the junk and crude problems and an MEK wash will give another
level of cleanliness.
My strip is Kitfox ready. You do have to have your speed well under control
as you come over the trees in order to get down by the halfway point - my
criteria for a go around. At first it was difficult. Now it seems quite
easy. I almost have the hangar done. It should hold a couple more Kitfoxes
easily. It is really neat how close Mount Rushmore is as you clear the
peaks close the strip.
Randy
.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cliffford
Begnaud
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: New gas tanks - rinse them with MEK
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cliffford Begnaud"
<shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
Randy,
There are three things that I am aware of that can be found coming out of
Kitfox fuel tanks.
First, and the most well known, is Kreme. Kreme flaking off can completely
block the flow of fuel from your tank.
Second is "mold release". This is a substance used to allow the tank and
internal parts to be easily removed from the mold when they are formed. It
will show up as transparent particles in your filters and fuel lines if it
is able to get past the finger strainers. There can be enough of this stuff
in your tanks to make it prudent that you remove your finger strainers and
clean them periodically for the first few hundred hours of flying. On the
finger strainers, this stuff will be both flaky and in clumps. It looks and
feels like clear silicon caulk.
Finally, be aware that the internal baffles in the fuel tanks have holes
punched in them to allow fuel to flow through. The holes in the baffles have
raw edges allowing fiberglass fibers to enter your fuel system. These fibers
are very small and you can't see them. If you have the glass purolator
filters between your wing tanks and header tank, you may notice a slight
yellowing of the filters. This is from the fiberglass particles and it can
severely restrict the flow of fuel. I suspect that this contributed to the
yellowish varnish found in your carbs. These fibers will likely continue to
be released for several hundred hours. Change/clean your filters OFTEN!!
Don't ask how I know about these problems...
Best Regards,
Cliff
S5, Lyc 0-235
ps, I really do plan to go see your new diggs this year
> About two months ago I reported to the list that both chokes on my new
912S
> were sticking very solidly and I got a number of suggestions. For
> background, the problem was NOT in the cables. The choke on the Bing 64
is
> flat plate that turns against another flat surface and when certain holes
> line up they open up what is essentially another carburetor which just
> produces a very rich mixture.
>
> Someone (Fred Shipp?) suggested that it was something leaching from the
> fiberglass tanks. This seems to be the problem. I drained the gas from
the
> tanks and burned it in my pickup. I took the choke assemblies apart and
> cleaned a yellow "varnish" from the flat surfaces (reported at that time).
> Now, 15 hours later, the problem has not reappeared. I did put new fuel
> filters in about 5 hours after draining the contaminated fuel.
>
> I suggest that builders with new tanks rinse the tanks with acetone or MEK
> several times to get this stuff (incompletely cured resin?) out of the
tank
> before you put them in the wing. Take precautions to prevent fires! My
> tanks were late 1999 vintage, but I suspect that this could happen at any
> time.
>
> Randy
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | New gas tanks - rinse them with MEK |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cliffford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
Randy,
How long is your strip and at what elevation?
I regularly land in under 300' (and on the spot) up here at 5100'. I can
land it shorter than that if I really want to hang it on the edge. I've done
as short as 200' up here.
Cliff
>
> I washed the tanks very, very well with soapy water emptying them through
> paint filters until I got no more fiberglass, etc. out of them prior to
> installing them in the wing. After drying them, I then rinsed them with
> gasoline. But I probably didn't let the gas set in the tanks long enough.
> (Partially polymerize resin, oligomers, are probably only marginally
soluble
> in gasoline.) I chose not to use the Kreme after the tanks passed the
lung
> pressured test for air leaks.
>
> I am convinced that this stuff that caused the problem was dissolved in
the
> gasoline and only caused problems when some was left behind when the gas
> evaporated from the warm closed chokes. I was not able to detect anything
> on the filters. I do think that careful cleaning prior to installation
will
> solve most of the junk and crude problems and an MEK wash will give
another
> level of cleanliness.
>
> My strip is Kitfox ready. You do have to have your speed well under
control
> as you come over the trees in order to get down by the halfway point - my
> criteria for a go around. At first it was difficult. Now it seems quite
> easy. I almost have the hangar done. It should hold a couple more
Kitfoxes
> easily. It is really neat how close Mount Rushmore is as you clear the
> peaks close the strip.
>
> Randy
>
>
> .
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cliffford
> Begnaud
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: New gas tanks - rinse them with MEK
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cliffford Begnaud"
> <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
>
> Randy,
> There are three things that I am aware of that can be found coming out of
> Kitfox fuel tanks.
> First, and the most well known, is Kreme. Kreme flaking off can completely
> block the flow of fuel from your tank.
>
> Second is "mold release". This is a substance used to allow the tank and
> internal parts to be easily removed from the mold when they are formed. It
> will show up as transparent particles in your filters and fuel lines if it
> is able to get past the finger strainers. There can be enough of this
stuff
> in your tanks to make it prudent that you remove your finger strainers and
> clean them periodically for the first few hundred hours of flying. On the
> finger strainers, this stuff will be both flaky and in clumps. It looks
and
> feels like clear silicon caulk.
>
> Finally, be aware that the internal baffles in the fuel tanks have holes
> punched in them to allow fuel to flow through. The holes in the baffles
have
> raw edges allowing fiberglass fibers to enter your fuel system. These
fibers
> are very small and you can't see them. If you have the glass purolator
> filters between your wing tanks and header tank, you may notice a slight
> yellowing of the filters. This is from the fiberglass particles and it can
> severely restrict the flow of fuel. I suspect that this contributed to the
> yellowish varnish found in your carbs. These fibers will likely continue
to
> be released for several hundred hours. Change/clean your filters OFTEN!!
> Don't ask how I know about these problems...
> Best Regards,
> Cliff
> S5, Lyc 0-235
> ps, I really do plan to go see your new diggs this year
>
> > About two months ago I reported to the list that both chokes on my new
> 912S
> > were sticking very solidly and I got a number of suggestions. For
> > background, the problem was NOT in the cables. The choke on the Bing 64
> is
> > flat plate that turns against another flat surface and when certain
holes
> > line up they open up what is essentially another carburetor which just
> > produces a very rich mixture.
> >
> > Someone (Fred Shipp?) suggested that it was something leaching from the
> > fiberglass tanks. This seems to be the problem. I drained the gas from
> the
> > tanks and burned it in my pickup. I took the choke assemblies apart and
> > cleaned a yellow "varnish" from the flat surfaces (reported at that
time).
> > Now, 15 hours later, the problem has not reappeared. I did put new fuel
> > filters in about 5 hours after draining the contaminated fuel.
> >
> > I suggest that builders with new tanks rinse the tanks with acetone or
MEK
> > several times to get this stuff (incompletely cured resin?) out of the
> tank
> > before you put them in the wing. Take precautions to prevent fires! My
> > tanks were late 1999 vintage, but I suspect that this could happen at
any
> > time.
> >
> > Randy
> >
> >
>
>
Message 23
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
Cliff,
I don't expect you to have any problem on this strip. The sweet spot is
about 2000', and there is another 150' to the trees at each end. But there
is 300 - 500' from the trees at each end that is unusable for landing
depending upon your angle of descent because of the trees. Elevation is
4400'. West end is 40' higher than the east end. Wind sock is about the
middle of the strip. Prevailing wind is from northwest.
You may have to make low pass to scare the Bighorn sheep off the strip
before you land. :-)
I have lots of work to do before I can land as short as you can. But I
continue to be amazed at what my Fox can do.
Randy
.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cliffford
Begnaud
Subject: How long? was: Kitfox-List: New gas tanks - rinse them with MEK
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cliffford Begnaud"
<shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
Randy,
How long is your strip and at what elevation?
I regularly land in under 300' (and on the spot) up here at 5100'. I can
land it shorter than that if I really want to hang it on the edge. I've done
as short as 200' up here.
Cliff
>
> I washed the tanks very, very well with
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Re: RE: How long? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Hutson" <rhutson@midsouth.rr.com>
Why not cut the trees at each end to open the full runway?
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: How long?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh"
> <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
>
> Cliff,
> I don't expect you to have any problem on this strip. The sweet spot is
> about 2000', and there is another 150' to the trees at each end. But
> there
> is 300 - 500' from the trees at each end that is unusable for landing
> depending upon your angle of descent because of the trees. Elevation is
> 4400'. West end is 40' higher than the east end. Wind sock is about the
> middle of the strip. Prevailing wind is from northwest.
>
> You may have to make low pass to scare the Bighorn sheep off the strip
> before you land. :-)
>
> I have lots of work to do before I can land as short as you can. But I
> continue to be amazed at what my Fox can do.
>
> Randy
>
> .
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cliffford
> Begnaud
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: How long? was: Kitfox-List: New gas tanks - rinse them with MEK
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cliffford Begnaud"
> <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
>
>
> Randy,
> How long is your strip and at what elevation?
> I regularly land in under 300' (and on the spot) up here at 5100'. I can
> land it shorter than that if I really want to hang it on the edge. I've
> done
> as short as 200' up here.
> Cliff
>>
>> I washed the tanks very, very well with
>
>
>
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: low fuel sensor revisited |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
Hi Lynn,
That 200 mA (0.2Amp) device can feed your alarm light with max. 200 mA, in
other word a perfect unit for driving a high intensity LED.
A typical LED draw approx. 20 mA, so the 200 mA version is good.
The unit can source anything from (0 - 200) mA. The 18 mA version need
driving logic to be used together with a LED or a bulb. A unit for made
for advanced EFIS alike systems.
For us VFR "flyers"- an additional "reset-able" aural warning is a
valuable addition, much better than all this nice to have thing..
BTW., all "those" units is based on optocouplers and total reflection when
dry, the other alternative is a float switch another well proven
principle. Here is a few more alternatives, but complicated - not very
practical and not "that" foolproof.
The optocoupler is much better than most other systems. Well, all of them
need electrical power..
Torgeir.
On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 20:38:51 -0500, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> Thanks, Torgeir...I had gotten this far (the McMaster link) but wasn't
> sure if the 200mA output was right for the job...or for that matter, if
> the 18mA of the steel-bodied unit was right either. An email to
> McMaster-Carr produced no usable info...their lawyer must've been
> looking over their shoulder. : )
>
> Lynn
>
> On Tuesday, March 8, 2005, at 06:27 PM, Torgeir Mortensen wrote:
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen
>> <torgemor@online.no>
>>
>> Hi Lynn,
>>
>>
>> Go to this link:
>>
>> http://www.mcmaster.com/
>>
>> Then search for: 4949K43 (the check box in the left corner).
>>
>> Just roll a little down.
>>
>> The above sensor is based on Polyamid housing.
>>
>> You can also check out the sensor 4949K33, with polysulfone housing.
>>
>> Here you can check polysulfone's fuel resistance:
>>
>> http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/product.biblio.jsp?osti_id=7340836
>>
>>
>> Both sensors is based on "giving signal" with no fuel.
>>
>> Good luck
>>
>>
>> Torgeir.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 13:49:08 -0500, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>>>
>>> I just read the archives regarding low fuel sensors for the header
>>> tank, and found a McMaster-Carr item # 4949K43 (supersedes the 4949K23
>>> that was suggested in this group). It uses a BSPP attachment....what
>>> in
>>> the world is that? I'm very familiar with NPT's and know about
>>> British,
>>> Whitworth, etc., but this one threw me. I've got a question posed to
>>> McMaster-Carr, but in the meantime, is there any better way to sense a
>>> low-fuel condition in the header tank? Something that hasn't been
>>> suggested yet in this group? I couldn't find anything in the Aircraft
>>> Spruce catalog...is there one there?
>>>
>>> Lynn
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
>>
>>
>
>
--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: low fuel sensor revisited |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Thanks for the info, Torgeir. I've decided to go with the float-type
system for the following reasons: (a) it's a little more "do-able"
given my electrical knowledge, (b) I kept reading about having to paint
the tank (no big deal), and "blinking" lights because of fuel slosh and
the fact that the optical unit would be so close to the top of my
header tank, and the slight amount of air trapped up there, and (c)
cheaper....approx $80-$110 for the optical versus about $39 for the
float switch. I ordered the float switch today. It seems like it will
be the best method for my situation. The float switch is capable of
handling .5 amps @ 12VDC, so this should be more than adequate for a
bright "get-your-attention" lamp, don't you think?
Lynn
On Wednesday, March 9, 2005, at 03:26 PM, Torgeir Mortensen wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen
> <torgemor@online.no>
>
> Hi Lynn,
>
>
> That 200 mA (0.2Amp) device can feed your alarm light with max. 200
> mA, in
> other word a perfect unit for driving a high intensity LED.
>
> A typical LED draw approx. 20 mA, so the 200 mA version is good.
>
> The unit can source anything from (0 - 200) mA. The 18 mA version need
> driving logic to be used together with a LED or a bulb. A unit for made
> for advanced EFIS alike systems.
>
> For us VFR "flyers"- an additional "reset-able" aural warning is a
> valuable addition, much better than all this nice to have thing..
>
> BTW., all "those" units is based on optocouplers and total reflection
> when
> dry, the other alternative is a float switch another well proven
> principle. Here is a few more alternatives, but complicated - not very
> practical and not "that" foolproof.
>
> The optocoupler is much better than most other systems. Well, all of
> them
> need electrical power..
>
>
> Torgeir.
>
>
> On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 20:38:51 -0500, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> wrote:
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>>
>> Thanks, Torgeir...I had gotten this far (the McMaster link) but wasn't
>> sure if the 200mA output was right for the job...or for that matter,
>> if
>> the 18mA of the steel-bodied unit was right either. An email to
>> McMaster-Carr produced no usable info...their lawyer must've been
>> looking over their shoulder. : )
>>
>> Lynn
>>
>> On Tuesday, March 8, 2005, at 06:27 PM, Torgeir Mortensen wrote:
>>
>>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen
>>> <torgemor@online.no>
>>>
>>> Hi Lynn,
>>>
>>>
>>> Go to this link:
>>>
>>> http://www.mcmaster.com/
>>>
>>> Then search for: 4949K43 (the check box in the left corner).
>>>
>>> Just roll a little down.
>>>
>>> The above sensor is based on Polyamid housing.
>>>
>>> You can also check out the sensor 4949K33, with polysulfone housing.
>>>
>>> Here you can check polysulfone's fuel resistance:
>>>
>>> http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/
>>> product.biblio.jsp?osti_id=7340836
>>>
>>>
>>> Both sensors is based on "giving signal" with no fuel.
>>>
>>> Good luck
>>>
>>>
>>> Torgeir.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 13:49:08 -0500, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>>>>
>>>> I just read the archives regarding low fuel sensors for the header
>>>> tank, and found a McMaster-Carr item # 4949K43 (supersedes the
>>>> 4949K23
>>>> that was suggested in this group). It uses a BSPP attachment....what
>>>> in
>>>> the world is that? I'm very familiar with NPT's and know about
>>>> British,
>>>> Whitworth, etc., but this one threw me. I've got a question posed to
>>>> McMaster-Carr, but in the meantime, is there any better way to
>>>> sense a
>>>> low-fuel condition in the header tank? Something that hasn't been
>>>> suggested yet in this group? I couldn't find anything in the
>>>> Aircraft
>>>> Spruce catalog...is there one there?
>>>>
>>>> Lynn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client:
>>> http://www.opera.com/m2/
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
>
>
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Re: RE: How long? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cliffford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
Ok, so 2000 + 150 at each end equals 2300. Minus 500 for tree clearance
equals 1800'. Plenty long...
Of course I won't be able to land as short on your dirt strip. Those numbers
I quoted were on concrete or asphalt with heavy braking. The braking won't
work so well on dirt. In any case, you strip is plenty long for a kitfox.
I'll make the low pass as you suggest...want me to grab one for dinner?
Cliff
>
do not archive
> Cliff,
> I don't expect you to have any problem on this strip. The sweet spot is
> about 2000', and there is another 150' to the trees at each end. But
there
> is 300 - 500' from the trees at each end that is unusable for landing
> depending upon your angle of descent because of the trees. Elevation is
> 4400'. West end is 40' higher than the east end. Wind sock is about the
> middle of the strip. Prevailing wind is from northwest.
>
> You may have to make low pass to scare the Bighorn sheep off the strip
> before you land. :-)
>
> I have lots of work to do before I can land as short as you can. But I
> continue to be amazed at what my Fox can do.
>
> Randy
>
> .
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: Rotax Oil Injection Tank |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 11:58 AM 3/9/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
...
>Why not just drill a hole in the bottom of the tank and install an AN
>Bulkhead fitting?
>Deke
I could do it, but the bottom of the bottle is not very flat and it would
be a joint more reliant on sealant than anything else. I don't believe
that's a great idea for oil in the engine compartment.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: low fuel sensor revisited |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
I'm sure your selection will be nice, and work very well.
Cheers
Torgeir.
On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 16:14:09 -0500, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> Thanks for the info, Torgeir. I've decided to go with the float-type
> system for the following reasons: (a) it's a little more "do-able"
> given my electrical knowledge, (b) I kept reading about having to paint
> the tank (no big deal), and "blinking" lights because of fuel slosh and
> the fact that the optical unit would be so close to the top of my
> header tank, and the slight amount of air trapped up there, and (c)
> cheaper....approx $80-$110 for the optical versus about $39 for the
> float switch. I ordered the float switch today. It seems like it will
> be the best method for my situation. The float switch is capable of
> handling .5 amps @ 12VDC, so this should be more than adequate for a
> bright "get-your-attention" lamp, don't you think?
>
> Lynn
Message 30
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| Subject: | twisted wire or elec connectors |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds <jareds@verizon.net>
Don't recall this discussion on the board but sure someone pondered it.
Had to take engine out and some of the electrical connectors were
squashed on the ends of the ignition wires but barely hangin on. Is
twisting better with some liquid tape??
Torgeir Mortensen wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
>
>I'm sure your selection will be nice, and work very well.
>
>Cheers
>
>Torgeir.
>
>
>On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 16:14:09 -0500, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>>
>>Thanks for the info, Torgeir. I've decided to go with the float-type
>>system for the following reasons: (a) it's a little more "do-able"
>>given my electrical knowledge, (b) I kept reading about having to paint
>>the tank (no big deal), and "blinking" lights because of fuel slosh and
>>the fact that the optical unit would be so close to the top of my
>>header tank, and the slight amount of air trapped up there, and (c)
>>cheaper....approx $80-$110 for the optical versus about $39 for the
>>float switch. I ordered the float switch today. It seems like it will
>>be the best method for my situation. The float switch is capable of
>>handling .5 amps @ 12VDC, so this should be more than adequate for a
>>bright "get-your-attention" lamp, don't you think?
>>
>>Lynn
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 31
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
Richard,
I may do that. I have already cut some. I just don't have much experience
on this strip yet. When the prevailing wind is down the runway it is pretty
easy. I am worried about a cross wind from the south. There are some
pretty high peaks close and I worry about turbulence. After a year or two,
the proper action may be obvious. (I hope!)
Cliff, as for dinner, the Game, Fish and Parks people have some funny ideas
about that.
Randy
Do not archive
.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Hutson
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RE: How long?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Hutson"
<rhutson@midsouth.rr.com>
Why not cut the trees at each end to open the full runway?
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: How long?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh"
> <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
>
> Cliff,
> I don't expect you to have any problem on this strip. The sweet spot is
> about 2000', and there is another 150' to the trees at each end. But
> there
> is 300 - 500' from the trees at each end that is unusable for landing
> depending upon your angle of descent because of the trees. Elevation is
> 4400'. West end is 40' higher than the east end. Wind sock is about the
> middle of the strip. Prevailing wind is from northwest.
>
> You may have to make low pass to scare the Bighorn sheep off the strip
> before you land. :-)
>
> I have lots of work to do before I can land as short as you can. But I
> continue to be amazed at what my Fox can do.
>
> Randy
>
> .
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cliffford
> Begnaud
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: How long? was: Kitfox-List: New gas tanks - rinse them with MEK
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cliffford Begnaud"
> <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
>
>
> Randy,
> How long is your strip and at what elevation?
> I regularly land in under 300' (and on the spot) up here at 5100'. I can
> land it shorter than that if I really want to hang it on the edge. I've
> done
> as short as 200' up here.
> Cliff
>>
>> I washed the tanks very, very well with
>
>
>
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