Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:15 AM - Re: Aluminum cowl? (kurt schrader)
2. 02:00 AM - Re: Pony Express? (kurt schrader)
3. 04:39 AM - Re: My EGTs (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
4. 06:51 AM - Re: Pony Express? (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
5. 06:53 AM - Re: My EGTs (David Savener)
6. 06:56 AM - Re: My EGTs (David Savener)
7. 12:08 PM - Re: UMA Tachoometers? (Michel Verheughe)
8. 12:31 PM - Re: My EGTs (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
9. 02:53 PM - Leaking seal (Rex & Jan Shaw)
10. 03:53 PM - Re: Leaking seal (kirk hull)
11. 04:53 PM - Re: My EGTs (John Perry)
12. 05:21 PM - Re: My EGTs (Torgeir Mortensen)
13. 05:29 PM - Re: My EGTs (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
14. 05:50 PM - Re: My EGTs (David Savener)
15. 05:54 PM - Re: My EGTs (Glenn Horne)
16. 05:58 PM - Re: My EGTs (John Perry)
17. 06:18 PM - West Epoxy System Warning (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
18. 07:40 PM - System Warning (hausding, sid)
19. 08:09 PM - Re: West Epoxy System Warning (Don Pearsall)
20. 08:49 PM - Re: My EGTs (aerocon1@telusplanet.net)
21. 08:51 PM - Re: West Epoxy System Warning (John Perry)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum cowl? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Hi Michel,
Aluminum is a bit harder than copper, so you may need
a harder mold to pound on. A rubber hammer worked
pretty well for me. An English well, as suggested, is
great but requires money or access and practice. They
make very nice parts.
I used wood molds for my somewhat limited parts
creations. They require a bit of effort, but make a
nice result in the end.
Have fun. Alumimun is neat to work with after a bit.
About as easy as wood, just different.
Kurt S.
--- Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no> wrote:
>
> Ok, then I'll try to make some experiments with
> aluminium, Kurt. Ages ago, when
> I was a student, I worked brass and copper, using a
> cushion made of thick
> leather and filled with sand. I would then put the
> metal part on it, and shape
> it with a round hammer. I have leather and I can
> find sand ... on a beach! :-)
> As for the aluminium, there is a guy, not far from
> where I live, who is the
> Norwegian agent for Sonex. He has all the
> aviation-grade aluminium I need, I
> should think.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
> do not archive
__________________________________
http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Pony Express? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Wish I could set it up right now with you all, but I
have to do a house insection in FL on Sat and closing
on the 24th. Won't be back until after Easter. So
you all can volunteer first if you want. It would be
an excust to fly for a purpose.
We've got Fla to Mi and Texas to Maine with maybe S&F
in there somewhere? Lots of opportunities to do it
right to start. :-)
Kurt S.
--- jareds <jareds@verizon.net> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds
> <jareds@verizon.net>
>
> GREAT IDEA KURT!!
> I would think all able would be willing to
> participate in that parade!
>
> kurt schrader wrote:
>
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
> >
> >There are times like this when I wish we could do a
> >"pony express" with our cross country friends. You
> >know, one KF flys with him until the next picks him
> up
> >and so on until he gets home. We could each pick
> him
> >up inbound to our home airport and fly outbound
> with
> >him a bit after fueling or overnighting. Kind of a
> >buddy system with friendship and safety perks.
> >
> >Just an idea. There are Fox's most everywhere and
> I
> >kind'a like the safety idea.
> >
> >Kurt S.
> >
> >--- Clifford Dow <cdowjr@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >>Well Dam I didn't hear many arguements for not
> >>buying a Kitfox - so I bought one!!
> >>That video is awesome!! I don't plan on flying
> >>like that but it sure is nice knowing it can take
> >>the G forces!
> >>With a little luck I will pick it up in Texas and
> >>fly it to Sun'N Fun - are there any kitfox owners
> >>planning to fly their kitfox by Fortworth, TX and
> >>onto Sun'N Fun around April 8th-12th?
> >>Again, with a little luck I will fly from sun"n
> Fun
> >>to Maine - are there any Kitfox owners flying that
> >>way after sun'n fun?? It's a huge adventure for
> this
> >>250 TT pilot! Following another Kitfox might make
> >>it easier for me to enjoy the view.
> >>My initials are CD - I wanted a number with
> Charlie
> >>Delta on the end - Cirrus Design went and reserved
> >>just about everyone of them!! from 111CD to 999CD
> -
> >>that's alot of numbers!! If you have a unique
> >>number you want - reserve it now!
> >>Thanks
> >>cliff in Maine.
__________________________________
Message 3
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 3/17/2005 2:29:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,
david_savener@msn.com writes:
How do I check to see if the rear seal is leaking?? I haven't heard of that
possibility before.
The rubber carb sockets are tight. They look new with no cracks, etc.
I think it was Bob Robertson that gave me a method to check for engine case
leaks. While the engine is running, spray starting fluid around the engine
openings. If you get a rev up when spraying in a certain area, that would
indicate a case leak. Back when I was having problems, I tried that and had no
rev ups. Of course, my problems was something other than a case leak.
Maybe Bob could jump in here and make sure I didn't say something wrong.
You have lots of good advice especially about swapping the EGT probes
around. Also, make sure the probes are installed at the same depth into the
manifold.
Don Smythe
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Pony Express? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
<<Wish I could set it up right now with you all, but I
have to do a house insection in FL on Sat and closing
on the 24th. Won't be back until after Easter. So
you all can volunteer first if you want. It would be
an excust to fly for a purpose.
Kurt S.>>
Kurt,
Where you gonna be. I'm leaving for Orlando on Thurs the 24th. Be there in
the late afternoon/early evening.
Don Smythe
Do Not Archive
Message 5
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Seal-Send-Time: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 08:47:00 -0600
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David Savener" <david_savener@msn.com>
I tried changing the egt probes and the problem showed up on the other needle,
telling me that I did have a hot back cylinder egt.
I rebuilt the fuel Mikuni pulse pump during the engine change. I also installed
an electric Facet pump with a fuel pressure regulator after the Facet pump and
before the Mikuni. The problem continues with the electric pump on.
I have the fuel pressure guage set at 3.25 lbs. Maybe I should plumb in a fuel
pressure guage. If I do, What pressure is best? What pressure made your problem
to away?
Is it OK to have a bigger(higher number) main jet in the rear carb or should they
always be the same in each?
One more question. My idle speed varies. It will run 2150 and then drop down
to 1700 and back again. I suspect that my carb adjustments are off. Has anyone
used the COLORTUNE tool for adjusting carbs? That's the one for sale in the
Bing Aircraft Carb Tuning and Parts Manual!
Dave S
----- Original Message -----
From: John Perry<mailto:eskflyer@pld.com>
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 11:11 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: My EGTs
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Perry" <eskflyer@pld.com<mailto:eskflyer@pld.com>>
OK now we are getting somewhere . take the egt probes out of the manifold
and switch places with them and see if the front one runs hotter . Also do
you have the old style hole in manifold or new style thread in hole manifold
If old style then maybe holes not exact distances from edge of piston on
both . there are many things that can cause this but none as frustrating as
a simple bad probe so try changing them around and let us know what you find
out .
I once had trouble getting another engine to good egt and it turned out to
be a bad fuel pump also . I bought a cheep fuel pressure gauge from auto
store and plumbed in and was loosing pressure at 5600 rpm and up . rebuilt
pump and all probs went away .
Have fun fly safe fly low fly slow .
John Perry
-------Original Message-------
From: David Savener
Date: 03/16/05 22:27:09
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: My EGTs
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David Savener" <david_savener@msn.com<mailto:david_savener@msn.com>>
I put a 158 main jet in the front carb and a 165 main jet in the rear carb.
When I flew it at 50 degrees F, I still get 50 degrees hotter EGT on the
back cylinder. I get right at 6800 RPM at full throttle in level flight
which makes me think I have the prop pitched about right.
I thought that bigger jet in the rear carb would even out the EGTs but no
luck. I already had the needle clips on the bottom groove.
Maybe I need to rejet the mid-range. I'll check the float level again, but
it appears to be correct.
How do I check to see if the rear seal is leaking?? I haven't heard of that
possibility before.
The rubber carb sockets are tight. They look new with no cracks, etc.
This engine sat for a long time. Maybe there is something else I am
missing!!
Dave S
----- Original Message -----
From: John Perry<mailto:eskflyer@pld.com<mailto:eskflyer@pld.com>>
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 9:16 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: My EGTs
Message 6
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Seal-Send-Time: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 08:53:52 -0600
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David Savener" <david_savener@msn.com>
I'll try that same depth of probe suggestion. If memory serves, one of my probes
does go in further.
I sure hope something works.
Thanks
Dave S
----- Original Message -----
From: AlbertaIV@aol.com<mailto:AlbertaIV@aol.com>
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 6:36 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: My EGTs
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com<mailto:AlbertaIV@aol.com>
In a message dated 3/17/2005 2:29:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,
david_savener@msn.com<mailto:david_savener@msn.com> writes:
How do I check to see if the rear seal is leaking?? I haven't heard of that
possibility before.
The rubber carb sockets are tight. They look new with no cracks, etc.
I think it was Bob Robertson that gave me a method to check for engine case
leaks. While the engine is running, spray starting fluid around the engine
openings. If you get a rev up when spraying in a certain area, that would
indicate a case leak. Back when I was having problems, I tried that and had
no
rev ups. Of course, my problems was something other than a case leak.
Maybe Bob could jump in here and make sure I didn't say something wrong.
You have lots of good advice especially about swapping the EGT probes
around. Also, make sure the probes are installed at the same depth into the
manifold.
Don Smythe
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: UMA Tachoometers? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Steve Cooper wrote:
> I've read recently that the UMA Tachometer is a pretty good instrument. Does
> anyone have any experience with these?
Er ... where am I now? Oh yes, on the Kitfox list! :-) Sorry, I just answered a
question about the UMA tacho on ... the Jabiru list, if I remember correctly.
(You know, old age and short memory! :-)
Well, Steve, I had my Jabiru delivered with the standard VDO 3" tacho. But I
didn't wanted to make a new hole in my panel so I traded it for a 2 1/4" UMA
tacho with the four screws that fit nicely the holes from the Rotax
instruments. I wired it to earth, 12 V and to one of the alternator's wires. It
works like a charm, looks very "aviation-like" and feels solid. After 8 hours,
it is still working ... unlike some of the crap cell phones you can buy today!
Grrrr! :-)
Cheers,
Michel
Message 8
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 3/17/2005 2:26:47 PM Eastern Standard Time,
david_savener@msn.com writes:
I'll try that same depth of probe suggestion. If memory serves, one of my
probes does go in further.
I sure hope something works.
I would like to know if you see a difference. A few weeks ago, I was
looking at one of the 2 stroke helicopters here and noticed the EGT probes were
fully inserted into the manifold all the way to the other side. From my memory,
the tips of the probes should fall in the center of the exhaust path. I
just wonder what actual temp differences you might find with different probe
depths. I tried to change mine as a test but, they were frozen in place around
the nut/ferrel. Didnt' want to break something just for a test.
Just as a guess, I'd think the probe nearest the center of the exhaust
path would be the hottest??
Don Smythe
Message 9
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
How do I check to see if the rear seal is leaking?? I haven't heard of that
possibility
before.
David,
I played with 2 stroke Kart engines for many years. Admittedly
they were smaller and easy to handle but what we did was to make up blanking
plates and gaskets for the intake and exhaust ports. In one of them have a
valve out of a car tyre. Make sure your spark plug is correctly installed.
Through the valve pressurise the motor to 5 to 10 lbs and we used to then
dunk it in a trough of water. Any bubbles will indicate a leak, just watch
where they come from. Now a 582 is a bit bigger and heavier so perhaps you
can just spray around suspect leak areas like the main seal with a soapy
solution of dishwasher liquid and water. Don't foget using this method
though to check gaskets as well. It is helpfull especially if it is leaking
to feed the valve with 5 to 10 lbs pressure all the time you are checking as
otherwise the leak might drain your pressure off too quickly.
Rex.
rexjan@bigpond.com
Message 10
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirk hull" <kirkhull@sbcglobal.net>
As an A&P I would never consider dunking any engine in water
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rex & Jan
Shaw
Subject: Kitfox-List: Leaking seal
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
How do I check to see if the rear seal is leaking?? I haven't heard of that
possibility
before.
David,
I played with 2 stroke Kart engines for many years. Admittedly
they were smaller and easy to handle but what we did was to make up blanking
plates and gaskets for the intake and exhaust ports. In one of them have a
valve out of a car tyre. Make sure your spark plug is correctly installed.
Through the valve pressurise the motor to 5 to 10 lbs and we used to then
dunk it in a trough of water. Any bubbles will indicate a leak, just watch
where they come from. Now a 582 is a bit bigger and heavier so perhaps you
can just spray around suspect leak areas like the main seal with a soapy
solution of dishwasher liquid and water. Don't foget using this method
though to check gaskets as well. It is helpfull especially if it is leaking
to feed the valve with 5 to 10 lbs pressure all the time you are checking as
otherwise the leak might drain your pressure off too quickly.
Rex.
rexjan@bigpond.com
Message 11
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Perry" <eskflyer@pld.com>
David to check the rear seal you have to dismantel the engine and remove the
magneto and electronics so if you do go this far just have new seals put in
How old is the engine and how long has it been sitting ?.
do not try spraying any form of liquid into the rear of the engine while it
is running to check for leaks you can kill your electrical system and cdi
unit .
John Perry
Message 12
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
Hi David,
You've really got some problem here.
If the probe adjustment cure it, the EGT difference, thats fine.
In case this would not help, try to swap the carbs - just to see that the
aft. cyl still is high. I'll don't think the fluctuating RPM is a very
good indication, -at that low idle..
Well, just found the "troubleshooting guide" at "Leadingedge-Airfoils" web
site, there is a step by step procedure for the kind of symptom you
describe.
Here's the direct link:
http://www.leadingedge-airfoils.com/pdf/TROUBLE.pdf
Here is the general tech-help page direct link:
http://www.leadingedge-airfoils.com/techhelp.htm
I took some pictures of my "spare" manifold with the probes installed,
here you can see how deep the probes go when installed into the manifold
(in the one I have).
Hmm, there is a service bulletin, or maybe a service letter - about new
installation of engines and related problem. They warn about rubber
remains from the insert of the fuel lines/fittings. They show how small
particles can block/reduce fuel flow. Also remember when my friends
completed an installation of a 912S-. They got a small rubber peace into
the carb - blocked the "closing" of the float valve and had lots of
problem with overflow, to rich etc.
If your aft. carb is a little lean in the middle - it sure can happened
due to a partly blockage.
However, try to swap those "main" component, also change the spark plugs -
lot's of problem's can be related to spark plugs. We've seen this several
times on this list..
Well, just try to "sort" out a little more before going to deep, isn't
this a "brand new engine"?
All pictures is high res.
This first one show the probe tip.
http://kitfox.net/images/DSC02606.JPG
Here is the from the outside viewing the probe seating.
http://kitfox.net/images/DSC02607.JPG
This is just an overview.
http://kitfox.net/images/DSC02609.JPG
Good luck.
Torgeir
On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 08:53:52 -0600, David Savener <david_savener@msn.com>
wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David Savener"
> <david_savener@msn.com>
>
> I'll try that same depth of probe suggestion. If memory serves, one of
> my probes does go in further.
>
> I sure hope something works.
>
> Thanks
> Dave S
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: AlbertaIV@aol.com<mailto:AlbertaIV@aol.com>
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 6:36 AM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: My EGTs
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by:
> AlbertaIV@aol.com<mailto:AlbertaIV@aol.com>
>
>
> In a message dated 3/17/2005 2:29:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> david_savener@msn.com<mailto:david_savener@msn.com> writes:
>
>
> How do I check to see if the rear seal is leaking?? I haven't heard
> of that
> possibility before.
>
> The rubber carb sockets are tight. They look new with no cracks, etc.
>
>
> I think it was Bob Robertson that gave me a method to check for engine
> case
> leaks. While the engine is running, spray starting fluid around the
> engine
> openings. If you get a rev up when spraying in a certain area, that
> would
> indicate a case leak. Back when I was having problems, I tried that
> and had no
> rev ups. Of course, my problems was something other than a case leak.
>
> Maybe Bob could jump in here and make sure I didn't say something
> wrong.
>
> You have lots of good advice especially about swapping the EGT probes
> around. Also, make sure the probes are installed at the same depth
> into the
> manifold.
>
> Don Smythe
>
>
--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
Message 13
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 3/17/2005 7:53:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,
eskflyer@pld.com writes:
do not try spraying any form of liquid into the rear of the engine while it
is running to check for leaks you can kill your electrical system and cdi
unit .
John Perry
I did not mean to imply spraying any liquid "into" the rear part of the
engine or any other part of the engine. The test I was referring to simply will
enrich the air around the engine with a more combustible material. Any
suction of the engine due to a leak should pull this enriched air into the case
and cause an increase of RPM. The spray should not be directed into an
opening of the engine in a concentrated form but, sprayed in the area so it will
mix with the surronding air.
On the other hand, forget it. It's probably a dumb a_ _ idea anyway.
Don Smythe
Message 14
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Seal-Send-Time: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 19:46:09 -0600
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David Savener" <david_savener@msn.com>
We used to use the spray method to look for intake leaks many years ago when I
had an auto repair shop.
It is a useful tool, used correctly. Once I found a new young mehanic spraying
gasoline under the hood of my old jeep. I screamed at him for being so foolish
just as he pulled out a vacuum hose with a crack in it. Geeezzz!!
I will check out my egt probes tonight, run it tomorrow, then try switching the
carbs.
The trouble shooting guide looks promising too. I had forgotten about that.
Thanks for all the help and ideas. This is a great list!!!!!
Dave S
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: AlbertaIV@aol.com<mailto:AlbertaIV@aol.com>
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: My EGTs
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com<mailto:AlbertaIV@aol.com>
In a message dated 3/17/2005 7:53:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,
eskflyer@pld.com<mailto:eskflyer@pld.com> writes:
do not try spraying any form of liquid into the rear of the engine while it
is running to check for leaks you can kill your electrical system and cdi
unit .
John Perry
I did not mean to imply spraying any liquid "into" the rear part of the
engine or any other part of the engine. The test I was referring to simply
will
enrich the air around the engine with a more combustible material. Any
suction of the engine due to a leak should pull this enriched air into the case
and cause an increase of RPM. The spray should not be directed into an
opening of the engine in a concentrated form but, sprayed in the area so it
will
mix with the surronding air.
On the other hand, forget it. It's probably a dumb a_ _ idea anyway.
Don Smythe
Message 15
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Glenn Horne" <glennflys@verizon.net>
It probably is Don.
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: <AlbertaIV@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: My EGTs
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 3/17/2005 7:53:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> eskflyer@pld.com writes:
>
> do not try spraying any form of liquid into the rear of the engine while
> it
> is running to check for leaks you can kill your electrical system and
> cdi
> unit .
>
> John Perry
>
>
> I did not mean to imply spraying any liquid "into" the rear part of the
> engine or any other part of the engine. The test I was referring to
> simply will
> enrich the air around the engine with a more combustible material. Any
> suction of the engine due to a leak should pull this enriched air into
> the case
> and cause an increase of RPM. The spray should not be directed into an
> opening of the engine in a concentrated form but, sprayed in the area so
> it will
> mix with the surronding air.
> On the other hand, forget it. It's probably a dumb a_ _ idea anyway.
>
>
> Don Smythe
>
>
>
Message 16
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Perry" <eskflyer@pld.com>
No Don its not a dumb idea it works great on the pto end but very hard to
get to the mag end . I have done this test on snowmachines but would rather
not do this to my flying engine lol . If i think its leaking just tear down
and put new gaskets and seals every 150 hours , or 5 years which ever comes
first .
Fly safe fly low fly slow
John In sw wind blowin no water flatland KS.
kitfox 2 N718PD
-------Original Message-------
From: AlbertaIV@aol.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: My EGTs
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 3/17/2005 7:53:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,
eskflyer@pld.com writes:
do not try spraying any form of liquid into the rear of the engine while it
is running to check for leaks you can kill your electrical system and cdi
unit .
John Perry
I did not mean to imply spraying any liquid "into" the rear part of the
engine or any other part of the engine. The test I was referring to simply
will
enrich the air around the engine with a more combustible material. Any
suction of the engine due to a leak should pull this enriched air into the
case
and cause an increase of RPM. The spray should not be directed into an
opening of the engine in a concentrated form but, sprayed in the area so it
will
mix with the surronding air.
On the other hand, forget it. It's probably a dumb a_ _ idea anyway
Don Smythe
Message 17
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| Subject: | West Epoxy System Warning |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
I posted a few days back that I had another episode with West Epoxy. Once a
person becomes sensitized to epoxy, it is for life (that is per West Epoxy).
A couple weeks ago, my Son wanted to fill a small crack on his boat and I
offered to help. He mixed it up while I watched close by. Even that close
and it nailed me good. I have lost at least two layers of skin around my nose
and mouth. Tonight, it had stopped peeling and starting to itch. I gently
rubbed my face to make it feel better and all of a sudden, I had two palmfuls
of blood. There isn't enough skin left on my face to hold back the blood.
We've talked about MEK and other chemical we use and how bad they can be
to an airplane builder. Trust me folks, you don't want to become sensitized
to epoxy. West says that it will get worse and worse at each exposure.
They are telling the truth.
When you use this stuff, you better get into full dress with an external
air source. I'm having a hard time understanding how they can even sell
this stuff.
BTW, I've used West Epoxy rarely on and off for years and it never
bothered me until I built the Fox. I put out this warning tonight because, quite
frankly, I'm a bit worried this time. All you tough guys that might say,
"stuff don't bother me". STAND-BY
Don Smythe
Message 18
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "hausding, sid" <sidh@charter.net>
Don,
What happens after sex?
Sid
--------------------
I posted a few days back that I had another episode with West Epoxy. Once
a
person becomes sensitized to epoxy, it is for life (that is per West Epoxy)
A couple weeks ago, my Son wanted to fill a small crack on his boat and I
offered to help. He mixed it up while I watched close by. Even that
close
and it nailed me good. I have lost at least two layers of skin around my
nose
and mouth. Tonight, it had stopped peeling and starting to itch. I gently
rubbed my face to make it feel better and all of a sudden, I had two
palmfuls
of blood. There isn't enough skin left on my face to hold back the blood.
We've talked about MEK and other chemical we use and how bad they can
be
to an airplane builder. Trust me folks, you don't want to become
sensitized
to epoxy. West says that it will get worse and worse at each exposure.
They are telling the truth.
When you use this stuff, you better get into full dress with an
external
air source. I'm having a hard time understanding how they can even sell
this stuff.
BTW, I've used West Epoxy rarely on and off for years and it never
bothered me until I built the Fox. I put out this warning tonight because,
quite
frankly, I'm a bit worried this time. All you tough guys that might say,
"stuff don't bother me". STAND-BY
Don Smythe
Message 19
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| Subject: | West Epoxy System Warning |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
Don, I have to echo your warnings to everyone. I built a KR-1 over 28 years
ago, then a KR-2. Both are built using epoxy as the resin for fiberglass
cloth (more flexible than polyester.) During construction, I did not wear
gloves at all, and often had my hands and arms dripping with the stuff. It
even got into my hair. I sensitized my hands after the KR-1. Every time I
was exposed to the epoxy, or even its fumes, it was like someone poured
scalding water over my skin. My skin would just act exactly like it was
badly burned, and hurt as bad too. Luckily, the sensitized areas were just
my hands and arms, but not ALL areas. There were patches of my skin that
were not affected.
Needless to say, after the KR-2, I said bye-bye to building composite
planes.
To this day, many years later, I still get burned by just being near epoxy
fumes. And I sure do not work with it.
So I sympathize with you Don! I hope your face heals quickly. Did you go to
a Dr yet? Maybe there is something they can do to make it heal faster.
Don Pearsall
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
AlbertaIV@aol.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: West Epoxy System Warning
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
I posted a few days back that I had another episode with West Epoxy. Once
a
person becomes sensitized to epoxy, it is for life (that is per West
Epoxy).
A couple weeks ago, my Son wanted to fill a small crack on his boat and I
offered to help. He mixed it up while I watched close by. Even that
close
and it nailed me good. I have lost at least two layers of skin around my
nose
and mouth. Tonight, it had stopped peeling and starting to itch. I gently
rubbed my face to make it feel better and all of a sudden, I had two
palmfuls
of blood. There isn't enough skin left on my face to hold back the blood.
We've talked about MEK and other chemical we use and how bad they can
be
to an airplane builder. Trust me folks, you don't want to become
sensitized
to epoxy. West says that it will get worse and worse at each exposure.
They are telling the truth.
When you use this stuff, you better get into full dress with an
external
air source. I'm having a hard time understanding how they can even sell
this stuff.
BTW, I've used West Epoxy rarely on and off for years and it never
bothered me until I built the Fox. I put out this warning tonight because,
quite
frankly, I'm a bit worried this time. All you tough guys that might say,
"stuff don't bother me". STAND-BY
Don Smythe
Message 20
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: aerocon1@telusplanet.net
Hi All,
I know I'm coming in on the end of this thread re the seal leak. The correct
method for testing the crankcase integrity is to blank off the intakes and
exhaust plus the sparkplug holes and the impulse port.
We machined up fittings that slip into the rubber intake sockets and made up
blanking plates from 1/2 in. aluminium for the exhaust ports (use rubber
gasket
material between the plate and the block). Just use a piece of blocked off
fuel line for the impulse port.
On one of the fittings in the intake sockets we put in a fitting that we could
hook up a pressure/vacuum pump. We use a simple hand held unit that has a
vacuum/pressure gauge attached.
You need to pressure the crankcase up to 6 lbs and it has to hold for 5 min.
You will also need to vacuum test to 5 lbs and have it hold for 3 minutes.
If it does this you should be just fine.
IF on the pressure test you get a bleed down we use a simple solution of soapy
water and a paint brush to coat any area we expect air could escape.
I'm not sure who suggested this, but if the engine is over 5 years old or has
more than 150 hours it would be a good idea to re-seal it regardless. This
would also give you a chance to check out the cranksaft bearings and the
condition on the cross shaft. This is not an expensive endevour if you are
doing it yourself. On a 582 it would take close to 10 hours to break the
engine down and return it to service. Add anohter 1.5 hours if you decide to
give the gear drive a going over.
If the engine is still in the airframe and you have a well ventilated area
(that means outdoors with ALL the cowlings off the engine) you can check the
crankcase halves and intake sockets for cracks by runnung the engine at an
idle and taking a small butane torch (unlit of course)and playing the nozzle
around the area the case halves join and around the intake sockets. You can't
test your mag end seal as it's not a good idea to fill the stator cavity with
butane (especially with the engine running) and you can't get at the front
seal because of the gear drive.
Just my two cents
Bob Robertson
Light Engine Services Ltd.
Rotax Service Center.
Quoting John Perry <eskflyer@pld.com>:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Perry" <eskflyer@pld.com>
>
> No Don its not a dumb idea it works great on the pto end but very hard to
> get to the mag end . I have done this test on snowmachines but would rather
> not do this to my flying engine lol . If i think its leaking just tear down
> and put new gaskets and seals every 150 hours , or 5 years which ever comes
> first .
>
> Fly safe fly low fly slow
> John In sw wind blowin no water flatland KS.
> kitfox 2 N718PD
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: AlbertaIV@aol.com
> Date: 03/17/05 19:16:23
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: My EGTs
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 3/17/2005 7:53:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> eskflyer@pld.com writes:
>
> do not try spraying any form of liquid into the rear of the engine while it
> is running to check for leaks you can kill your electrical system and cdi
> unit .
>
> John Perry
>
>
> I did not mean to imply spraying any liquid "into" the rear part of the
> engine or any other part of the engine. The test I was referring to simply
> will
> enrich the air around the engine with a more combustible material. Any
> suction of the engine due to a leak should pull this enriched air into the
> case
> and cause an increase of RPM. The spray should not be directed into an
> opening of the engine in a concentrated form but, sprayed in the area so it
> will
> mix with the surronding air.
> On the other hand, forget it. It's probably a dumb a_ _ idea anyway
>
>
> Don Smythe
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: West Epoxy System Warning |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Perry" <eskflyer@pld.com>
Don i feel for you buddy. I hope all goes well with your health . I to have
problems stemming from my child hod days of helping dad build boats and
airplanes . Big ones that is . we used many 55 gallon drums of polyester and
epoxy over the years and did not use resperators or any type of skin
protection . I am paying for it now . When i use any at all I put on
resperator and long sleeve shirt and use latex gloves or rubber ones . so
far this has worked i hope i never get where you are . Mabe this will help
someone else to heed the warnings and save there health in the future.
Be safe fly slow fly low
John Perry
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