Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:38 AM - Inspection covers (Cliff Olson)
2. 04:51 AM - Re: Changing out stock fuel fills (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
3. 04:51 AM - fuel fills (hausding, sid)
4. 04:54 AM - Re: Inspection covers (DC91840@aol.com)
5. 05:26 AM - Re: 582 Crank Needed (jareds)
6. 06:19 AM - Re: fuel fills (Sterling)
7. 06:52 AM - Re: fuel fills (Lynn Matteson)
8. 07:23 AM - Re: fuel fills (Sterling)
9. 07:38 AM - Re: NSI Oil pressure (Rick)
10. 07:55 AM - Re: Changing out stock fuel fills (Rick)
11. 08:29 AM - Re: fuel fills (kurt schrader)
12. 08:58 AM - Re: NSI Oil pressure (kurt schrader)
13. 09:35 AM - Re: Changing out stock fuel fills (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
14. 09:54 AM - Re: fuel fills (Sterling)
15. 10:25 AM - Re: NSI Oil pressure (Rick)
16. 11:21 AM - Re: NSI Oil pressure (Rick)
17. 11:49 AM - Re: NSI Oil pressure (paul wilson)
18. 12:09 PM - Re: fuel fills (Randy Daughenbaugh)
19. 12:12 PM - Rear Spar Carry Through (Cudnohufsky's)
20. 01:03 PM - Re: Rear Spar Carry Through (Howard Firm)
21. 01:03 PM - Re: Rear Spar Carry Through (joakley@ida.net)
22. 03:27 PM - Re: NSI Oil pressure (paul wilson)
23. 03:27 PM - Fuel stains (Rex & Jan Shaw)
24. 04:00 PM - Re: Today's flight (kitfox@simnet.is)
25. 04:06 PM - Re: Fuel stains (Sterling)
26. 05:06 PM - Kitfox/RR Video Mail A Tool For Us? (KITFOXZ@aol.com)
27. 05:08 PM - Here Is The RR Add URL: (KITFOXZ@aol.com)
28. 05:10 PM - Re: NSI Oil pressure (Rick)
29. 07:10 PM - Flooding (Kirk Martenson)
30. 07:18 PM - Wing Pin Tension/pitch/etc (adamkmcc)
31. 10:36 PM - Re: Rear Spar Carry Through (Leach Family)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Inspection covers |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cliff Olson" <colsonj@provide.net>
Has anyone installed an inspection cover on the rear fuselage just above the tail
spring.I see the only way to inspect the tubing in that area is to pull the
elevator and the horizontal stab,which I've done.What started out as an inspection
of this used model IV has now turned into a rebuild project.I haven't decided
to strip the fabric as it is in very good shape.Allso I've looked through
the archives,and skystar service bullitans/ad's to to make sure this plane meets
those corrections.If anyone could contact me offline to give me some tips
or suggestions I would appreciate it.Thanks Cliff don't archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Changing out stock fuel fills |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 3/21/2005 11:40:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
turboflyer@comcast.net writes:
epoxy to the top of the tank. The other filler came with a cork gasket so I
am considering the permatex #2 to seal it to the top of the fiberglass for
easy maintenance in the far future. What do you think?
Rick ...beyond pooped
Rick,
One problem I had was, the tank in that area is not flat. It had a
slight curvature to it. Enough that mounting a flat flange might be a problem.
When I did mine, I used a 1/4" thick piece of fiberglass plate that went on
the inside of the tank. I had to take a belt sander and round off the plate
until it matched the curvature of the tank. It was then epoxied to the inside
with a thick slurry of high density filler to the epoxy. Then, popriveted
to the tank. This gave me a flat surface in the center of the plate to attach
the new filler. Attached in the same manner (thick slurry/poprivets).
Once cut, you may see this as a problem and have to design as you go
Don Smythe
Message 3
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "hausding, sid" <sidh@charter.net>
Lynn,
Check out some sound and communication sites, or radio and stereo catalogs.
There are some "flat" wires out there now and when glued in place can hardly
be detected on the surface after painted over.........easy to use and should
hold the static charge with no problem.....
Sid
-------------------
I've been thinking about this grounding business, and have decided that
I *could* run a ground wire from the filler neck to the spar, under a
piece of finishing tape...my wings are covered, but not yet painted. I
could disguise this as a "false rib" of sorts, I suppose, and then I
would be safe for most static discharge issues, right? But I'm still
confused about how this ground gets to be grounded. Is providing a
ground from the filler neck to the airframe enough?
Lynn
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Inspection covers |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: DC91840@aol.com
Cliff:
I put inspection hole on both sides of mine.
Helps with the assembly of the tailwheel
to the fuselage. Skystar manual shows these.
Don C.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 582 Crank Needed |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds <jareds@verizon.net>
Thanks for tips coming in. I've heard about the older models and the
cranks used. I haven't found out if this is an old version or not yet.
It looks like I may have found another 582 with only a siezed piston so
leaning towards using the pieces to combine one good engine then when i
can afford decide about building the second one.
My engine only has 60 hours but the age must have contributed. They
always say a two stroke has to be started periodically and if you know
i'ts going to set, spray the factory preservative into it.
Bob it's good to know there are some actuall engine guys monitoring the
site. Thats why this list is so valuable.
aerocon1@telusplanet.net wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: aerocon1@telusplanet.net
>
>Hi,
>Whats the serial number of the engine? Rotax changed the crankshaft in the
>early 90's to bigger conrod journals. If you have really early 582 (with the
>small crankshaft) it would be preferable to replace the crankshaft with the
>newer "heavy duty" crankshaft as the early "small" cranks had a tendency to
>turf a rod bearing sometime between 130 and 160 hours. Some of the small
>cranks went the distance (300 hours+) but quite a few crapped out early in
>their life. Does your engine has the factory installed hydrodamper attached
>tot he flywheel?
>If you have the larger crank, and the center two bearings are in decent shape,
>the other bearings are readily replaceable. Its a lot less expensive the
>replacing the whole crankshaft. If you do replace the outer crankshaft
>bearings please use factory (Rotax) bearings as they have plastic bearing
>cages. After market bearings have metal cages that can lead to disaster if
>used.
>Feel free to give me a call if you want to discuss this in person.
>
>Good luck
>
>Bob Robertson
>Light Engine Services Ltd.
>Rotax Service Center
>Phone --TOLL FREE 1-866-418-4164
>
>
>Quoting jareds <jareds@verizon.net>:
>
>
>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds <jareds@verizon.net>
>>
>>What should have been a simple fix of water pump seal turned into crank
>>bearings being trashed.
>>60 hrs on the engine but it's an old grey head so the age alone could
>>have contributed.
>>Any alternatives you guys might know of?
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Sterling" <sterling@pgrb.com>
Would anyone like to see a picture of my copper grounding wire laid under
fiberglass from the aluminum filler neck, down to the bottom of the tank?
I'm running the entire length down the gear leg so I can disapate the static
prior to gassing the airplane.
----- Original Message -----
From: "hausding, sid" <sidh@charter.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: fuel fills
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "hausding, sid" <sidh@charter.net>
>
> Lynn,
> Check out some sound and communication sites, or radio and stereo
catalogs.
> There are some "flat" wires out there now and when glued in place can
hardly
> be detected on the surface after painted over.........easy to use and
should
> hold the static charge with no problem.....
> Sid
> -------------------
>
> I've been thinking about this grounding business, and have decided that
> I *could* run a ground wire from the filler neck to the spar, under a
> piece of finishing tape...my wings are covered, but not yet painted. I
> could disguise this as a "false rib" of sorts, I suppose, and then I
> would be safe for most static discharge issues, right? But I'm still
> confused about how this ground gets to be grounded. Is providing a
> ground from the filler neck to the airframe enough?
>
> Lynn
>
>
Message 7
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Yes, I for one would like to see that...and thanks for the tip
concerning the flat wire...I'll check it out.
Lynn
do not archive
On Tuesday, March 22, 2005, at 09:18 AM, Sterling wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Sterling" <sterling@pgrb.com>
>
> Would anyone like to see a picture of my copper grounding wire laid
> under
> fiberglass from the aluminum filler neck, down to the bottom of the
> tank?
> I'm running the entire length down the gear leg so I can disapate the
> static
> prior to gassing the airplane.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "hausding, sid" <sidh@charter.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kitfox-List: fuel fills
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "hausding, sid" <sidh@charter.net>
>>
>> Lynn,
>> Check out some sound and communication sites, or radio and stereo
> catalogs.
>> There are some "flat" wires out there now and when glued in place can
> hardly
>> be detected on the surface after painted over.........easy to use and
> should
>> hold the static charge with no problem.....
>> Sid
Message 8
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Sterling" <sterling@pgrb.com>
Give me a couple of days and I'll make a picture and send to you. The wire
was purchased from Aircraft Spruce. It is copper braided and tin coated.
After seeing a guy burned badly years ago from gassing a go cart, I'm a big
believer in killing off static electricity before introducing a gas can to a
fuel tank.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: fuel fills
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> Yes, I for one would like to see that...and thanks for the tip
> concerning the flat wire...I'll check it out.
>
> Lynn
> do not archive
> On Tuesday, March 22, 2005, at 09:18 AM, Sterling wrote:
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Sterling" <sterling@pgrb.com>
> >
> > Would anyone like to see a picture of my copper grounding wire laid
> > under
> > fiberglass from the aluminum filler neck, down to the bottom of the
> > tank?
> > I'm running the entire length down the gear leg so I can disapate the
> > static
> > prior to gassing the airplane.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "hausding, sid" <sidh@charter.net>
> > To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Kitfox-List: fuel fills
> >
> >
> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "hausding, sid" <sidh@charter.net>
> >>
> >> Lynn,
> >> Check out some sound and communication sites, or radio and stereo
> > catalogs.
> >> There are some "flat" wires out there now and when glued in place can
> > hardly
> >> be detected on the surface after painted over.........easy to use and
> > should
> >> hold the static charge with no problem.....
> >> Sid
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | NSI Oil pressure |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
Kurt,
I know there is a high volume pump available from someone. I found it once
when looking to do the same thing. If your determined let me know and I will
find it. I already asked about the volume and was told you could shim the
relief spring with washers to gain more pressure but....unless pressure is
low on both ends you run the risk of to high a pressure when the oil is
cold. Bearing can be floated and spun. I am running the 20-50- semi
synthetic castrol in conjunction with a mocal oil thermostat and a different
than supplies and placed oil cooler. My oil heats up better and remains
constant at about 210 depending on how accurate my gages are. Oil pressure
stay at 60psi and never get below 45 too 50 at idle. Just so you know good
automotive oil far exceed even the best aviation oils and I got that
straight from a aviation oil factory rep. The problem is you have to run it
in certified aircraft engines. Also remember our engines run must tighter
clearances and are not as fluctuating with heat changes. Hope that helps
some.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kurt
schrader
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: NSI Oli pressure
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Lance,
Got a question for you. Is there a larger volume oil
pump that will fit the EA-81 engines? I think that
this could help hold the pressure up while providing
better cooling on our turbo engines thru more
circulation with a lighter weight oil. This might be
better than using heavier oils for the turbo models.
Kurt S. S-5/NSI EA-81 turbo
Message 10
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| Subject: | Changing out stock fuel fills |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
I did notice the curvature and was why I couldn't get the beautiful A512
Aero cap from Newton. It would have given me a nice big 3 inch access hole.
I have never been good at seeing the fuel level with that stock small fill.
Yep I figured it would be a pain to fit it. I think your right about there
still being some curvature. If the tank is flexible enough and I use a
backing plate the gasket may work, if not aging your thick flox laden slurry
my be the only way to do it. My tanks are use so I am not sure about epoxy
on the inside, guess I will have to cut the hole and commit, gezzz scary
stuff.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
AlbertaIV@aol.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Changing out stock fuel fills
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 3/21/2005 11:40:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
turboflyer@comcast.net writes:
epoxy to the top of the tank. The other filler came with a cork gasket so I
am considering the permatex #2 to seal it to the top of the fiberglass for
easy maintenance in the far future. What do you think?
Rick ...beyond pooped
Rick,
One problem I had was, the tank in that area is not flat. It had a
slight curvature to it. Enough that mounting a flat flange might be a
problem.
When I did mine, I used a 1/4" thick piece of fiberglass plate that went on
the inside of the tank. I had to take a belt sander and round off the
plate
until it matched the curvature of the tank. It was then epoxied to the
inside
with a thick slurry of high density filler to the epoxy. Then, popriveted
to the tank. This gave me a flat surface in the center of the plate to
attach
the new filler. Attached in the same manner (thick slurry/poprivets).
Once cut, you may see this as a problem and have to design as you go
Don Smythe
Message 11
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
It is a good idea to add a resister between the wire
and where you ground it to the spar. This causes the
electrical discharge flow to take place over more time
preventing an arc when you touch the spout to the
filler neck. I forget the size of resister and I am
not home to check. Maybe someone knows or it is in
the archives.
Kurt S. In Florida
--- Sterling <sterling@pgrb.com> wrote:
>
> Give me a couple of days and I'll make a picture and
> send to you. The wire was purchased from Aircraft
> Spruce. It is copper braided and tin coated.
>
> After seeing a guy burned badly years ago from
> gassing a go cart, I'm a big believer in killing
> off static electricity before introducing a gas
> can to a fuel tank.
__________________________________
Message 12
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| Subject: | NSI Oil pressure |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Thanks Rick,
Yes I want to continue improving this engine until it
is as stable as yours. I am also using 20W50, but not
synthetic. I don't have the thermostat and am using a
custom oil cooler.
I have no problem achieving the high pressure end. In
fact it buy-passes until warm staying at the 60 or so
mark. I let it get warm before takeoff. The pressure
is good in cruise at about 50 psi. But it has been
running 220-230 degrees in flight (above 70 OAT) which
is a little high for me. 210 sounds just right. Do
you still measure the heat at the pan like mine?
I have to reduce power first for descent until I get
down to 210, then I can pull to idle. If I don't, the
pressure drops below 30, even to 20 psi. Same with
after landing. If I am at 210 or less, the pressure
is good. I have stayed away from touch and goes for
ths reason.
My brother-inlaw suggested that a higher flow rate
pump and thinner oil would allow better cooling and
good pressure at idle too. Then a lower weight oil
can be used, such as straight 30 wt. which flows
better but won't exceed the high pressure end.
So if you have the time to look up your source, I'll
add it to my "things to do" list of improvements. I
want to try improving the oil cooler airflow first,
but the greater volume pump might be next.
This plane does keep getting better. I am glad I can
use auto fuel these days too.
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
--- Rick <turboflyer@comcast.net> wrote:
> Kurt,
>
> I know there is a high volume pump available from
> someone. I found it once
> when looking to do the same thing. If your
> determined let me know and I will
> find it. I already asked about the volume and was
> told you could shim the
> relief spring with washers to gain more pressure
> but....unless pressure is
> low on both ends you run the risk of to high a
> pressure when the oil is
> cold. Bearing can be floated and spun. I am running
> the 20-50- semi
> synthetic castrol in conjunction with a mocal oil
> thermostat and a different
> than supplies and placed oil cooler. My oil heats
> up better and remains
> constant at about 210 depending on how accurate my
> gages are. Oil pressure
> stay at 60psi and never get below 45 too 50 at idle.
> Just so you know good
> automotive oil far exceed even the best aviation
> oils and I got that
> straight from a aviation oil factory rep. The
> problem is you have to run it
> in certified aircraft engines. Also remember our
> engines run must tighter
> clearances and are not as fluctuating with heat
> changes. Hope that helps
> some.
>
> Rick
__________________________________
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Changing out stock fuel fills |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 3/22/2005 10:57:07 AM Eastern Standard Time,
turboflyer@comcast.net writes:
still being some curvature. If the tank is flexible enough and I use a
backing plate the gasket may work, if not aging your thick flox laden slurry
my be the only way to do it. My tanks are use so I am not sure about epoxy
on the inside, guess I will have to cut the hole and commit, gezzz scary
stuff.
Rick
IMO, the tanks are not flexible enough in that area to pull everything flat.
Use a good fuel proof epoxy and sand the inside seating area with rough
sand paper. If you have kreeme in the tanks, that complicates things a bit.
It
would have to be removed and cleaned real well in the area of the epoxy.
Don Smythe
Message 14
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Sterling" <sterling@pgrb.com>
Kurt:
Great idea and I'm glad you mentioned this. I'm no electrical engineer, just
a former TV report who has seen one-too-many people burned during accidents
involving fuel.
Please post your findings when you can. I'll post a picture of my fiberglass
gas tank with aluminum filler neck and the ground wire. Even though there
may be times when I'm not refueling at an FBO, I want to spark the static at
the gear leg prior to fueling from a plastic can. I figure if I can
eliminate the static charge PRIOR to adding fuel from a plastic can into a
fiberglass tank, my chances of toasting me and my plans-built airplane are
lessened. Also, I still plan on carrying my spray bottle of 50/50 Downey
fabric softener as a secondary measure of elminating static.
----- Original Message -----
From: "kurt schrader" <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: fuel fills
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
> It is a good idea to add a resister between the wire
> and where you ground it to the spar. This causes the
> electrical discharge flow to take place over more time
> preventing an arc when you touch the spout to the
> filler neck. I forget the size of resister and I am
> not home to check. Maybe someone knows or it is in
> the archives.
>
> Kurt S. In Florida
>
> --- Sterling <sterling@pgrb.com> wrote:
> >
> > Give me a couple of days and I'll make a picture and
> > send to you. The wire was purchased from Aircraft
> > Spruce. It is copper braided and tin coated.
> >
> > After seeing a guy burned badly years ago from
> > gassing a go cart, I'm a big believer in killing
> > off static electricity before introducing a gas
> > can to a fuel tank.
>
>
> __________________________________
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | NSI Oil pressure |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
I will check on the source. No I have the oil temp sensor at the filter
housing so it sees the oil that is coming from the engine before the cooler.
I have hear differing opinions on this but I want to see how hot it got not
how cool it was. I don't think there is a big difference.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kurt
schrader
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil pressure
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Thanks Rick,
Yes I want to continue improving this engine until it
is as stable as yours. I am also using 20W50, but not
synthetic. I don't have the thermostat and am using a
custom oil cooler.
I have no problem achieving the high pressure end. In
fact it buy-passes until warm staying at the 60 or so
mark. I let it get warm before takeoff. The pressure
is good in cruise at about 50 psi. But it has been
running 220-230 degrees in flight (above 70 OAT) which
is a little high for me. 210 sounds just right. Do
you still measure the heat at the pan like mine?
I have to reduce power first for descent until I get
down to 210, then I can pull to idle. If I don't, the
pressure drops below 30, even to 20 psi. Same with
after landing. If I am at 210 or less, the pressure
is good. I have stayed away from touch and goes for
ths reason.
My brother-inlaw suggested that a higher flow rate
pump and thinner oil would allow better cooling and
good pressure at idle too. Then a lower weight oil
can be used, such as straight 30 wt. which flows
better but won't exceed the high pressure end.
So if you have the time to look up your source, I'll
add it to my "things to do" list of improvements. I
want to try improving the oil cooler airflow first,
but the greater volume pump might be next.
This plane does keep getting better. I am glad I can
use auto fuel these days too.
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
--- Rick <turboflyer@comcast.net> wrote:
> Kurt,
>
> I know there is a high volume pump available from
> someone. I found it once
> when looking to do the same thing. If your
> determined let me know and I will
> find it. I already asked about the volume and was
> told you could shim the
> relief spring with washers to gain more pressure
> but....unless pressure is
> low on both ends you run the risk of to high a
> pressure when the oil is
> cold. Bearing can be floated and spun. I am running
> the 20-50- semi
> synthetic castrol in conjunction with a mocal oil
> thermostat and a different
> than supplies and placed oil cooler. My oil heats
> up better and remains
> constant at about 210 depending on how accurate my
> gages are. Oil pressure
> stay at 60psi and never get below 45 too 50 at idle.
> Just so you know good
> automotive oil far exceed even the best aviation
> oils and I got that
> straight from a aviation oil factory rep. The
> problem is you have to run it
> in certified aircraft engines. Also remember our
> engines run must tighter
> clearances and are not as fluctuating with heat
> changes. Hope that helps
> some.
>
> Rick
__________________________________
Message 16
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| Subject: | NSI Oil pressure |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
http://www.importperformanceparts.net/ This is it, hit this then subaru then
oil pumps and you are there. Good luck.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rick
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil pressure
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
I will check on the source. No I have the oil temp sensor at the filter
housing so it sees the oil that is coming from the engine before the cooler.
I have hear differing opinions on this but I want to see how hot it got not
how cool it was. I don't think there is a big difference.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kurt
schrader
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil pressure
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Thanks Rick,
Yes I want to continue improving this engine until it
is as stable as yours. I am also using 20W50, but not
synthetic. I don't have the thermostat and am using a
custom oil cooler.
I have no problem achieving the high pressure end. In
fact it buy-passes until warm staying at the 60 or so
mark. I let it get warm before takeoff. The pressure
is good in cruise at about 50 psi. But it has been
running 220-230 degrees in flight (above 70 OAT) which
is a little high for me. 210 sounds just right. Do
you still measure the heat at the pan like mine?
I have to reduce power first for descent until I get
down to 210, then I can pull to idle. If I don't, the
pressure drops below 30, even to 20 psi. Same with
after landing. If I am at 210 or less, the pressure
is good. I have stayed away from touch and goes for
ths reason.
My brother-inlaw suggested that a higher flow rate
pump and thinner oil would allow better cooling and
good pressure at idle too. Then a lower weight oil
can be used, such as straight 30 wt. which flows
better but won't exceed the high pressure end.
So if you have the time to look up your source, I'll
add it to my "things to do" list of improvements. I
want to try improving the oil cooler airflow first,
but the greater volume pump might be next.
This plane does keep getting better. I am glad I can
use auto fuel these days too.
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
--- Rick <turboflyer@comcast.net> wrote:
> Kurt,
>
> I know there is a high volume pump available from
> someone. I found it once
> when looking to do the same thing. If your
> determined let me know and I will
> find it. I already asked about the volume and was
> told you could shim the
> relief spring with washers to gain more pressure
> but....unless pressure is
> low on both ends you run the risk of to high a
> pressure when the oil is
> cold. Bearing can be floated and spun. I am running
> the 20-50- semi
> synthetic castrol in conjunction with a mocal oil
> thermostat and a different
> than supplies and placed oil cooler. My oil heats
> up better and remains
> constant at about 210 depending on how accurate my
> gages are. Oil pressure
> stay at 60psi and never get below 45 too 50 at idle.
> Just so you know good
> automotive oil far exceed even the best aviation
> oils and I got that
> straight from a aviation oil factory rep. The
> problem is you have to run it
> in certified aircraft engines. Also remember our
> engines run must tighter
> clearances and are not as fluctuating with heat
> changes. Hope that helps
> some.
>
> Rick
__________________________________
Message 17
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| Subject: | NSI Oil pressure |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: paul wilson <pwilson@climber.org>
Unconventional placement. What is desired is the temp of the lube is before
it gets to the oil pump and the the rest of the engine. Thus you know if
the cooler is doing its job. Proper care and feeding of the engine depends
on what is going in, not what is coming out. Same comment goes for coolant
temp measure what is going in not what is coming out. Remember that the oil
being discharged from the engine is normally very hot after coming in
contact with pistons and bearings. Oil properties degrade because a
fraction gets overheated and thus the oil must be either tested or changed
to assure the important properties remain.
BTW, if you pop the hood of an auto with an oil temp gauge you will find
the sensor on top of the filter where it sees the oil entering the engine.
Sometimes you might find the sensor is in the oil gallery just down stream
of the oil pump near the oil pressure gauge sensor.
If you find a source that disagrees with the above feel free to ignore the
bad advice. :-)
Paul
============
At 10:22 AM 3/22/05 -0800, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
>
>I will check on the source. No I have the oil temp sensor at the filter
>housing so it sees the oil that is coming from the engine before the cooler.
>I have hear differing opinions on this but I want to see how hot it got not
>how cool it was. I don't think there is a big difference.
>
>Rick
Message 18
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
Kurt,
This is a good point. Otherwise most of the things being tossed out here
will just provide a good conduit to enhance the strength of the spark.
Randy
.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kurt schrader
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: fuel fills
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
It is a good idea to add a resister between the wire
and where you ground it to the spar. This causes the
electrical discharge flow to take place over more time
preventing an arc when you touch the spout to the
filler neck. I forget the size of resister and I am
not home to check. Maybe someone knows or it is in
the archives.
Kurt S. In Florida
Message 19
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| Subject: | Rear Spar Carry Through |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cudnohufsky's" <7suds@chartermi.net>
Group,
What are your thoughts, While working on the rebuild of my ground looped
Model 5 I noticed the previous builder has riveted the forward turtle deck
support to the inside of the rear spar carry through, according to the
manual this is a big no no. Any one have any thoughts on whether or not I
need to do a fix? If so, what?
Thanks,
Lloyd
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Rear Spar Carry Through |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Howard Firm" <pianome2@mchsi.com>
I have two seperate builder manuals for my -5, one of them says to rivit the
piece on, the other says not to....My -4 manual also said to rivit it on.
Howard Firm
508 12th St. South
Virginia MN 55792
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cudnohufsky's" <7suds@chartermi.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Rear Spar Carry Through
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cudnohufsky's" <7suds@chartermi.net>
>
> Group,
> What are your thoughts, While working on the rebuild of my ground looped
> Model 5 I noticed the previous builder has riveted the forward turtle deck
> support to the inside of the rear spar carry through, according to the
> manual this is a big no no. Any one have any thoughts on whether or not I
> need to do a fix? If so, what?
> Thanks,
> Lloyd
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Rear Spar Carry Through |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: joakley@ida.net
Lloyd,
All the original or I should say , earlier models were riveted to this
cross through, including mine. I would not worry except to make sure there
is no rust, or other damage.
John Oakley
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cudnohufsky's" <7suds@chartermi.net>
>
> Group,
> What are your thoughts, While working on the rebuild of my ground looped
> Model 5 I noticed the previous builder has riveted the forward turtle deck
> support to the inside of the rear spar carry through, according to the
> manual this is a big no no. Any one have any thoughts on whether or not I
> need to do a fix? If so, what?
> Thanks,
> Lloyd
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | NSI Oil pressure |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: paul wilson <pwilson@climber.org>
More comments on oil temp measurement.
In addition to my first post the sump is also a common place on wet sump
engines for the temp sensor. That is where the bulk of oil is located. The
oil pickup to the pump is assumed to suck the mixed hot and relatively cool
oil. The sump sensor is common even with an external cooler since the oil
pump pickup is also in the sump. Thus the sensor measures the oil temp
entering the engine.
In the past some on this list have dry sump engines (such as Rotax, &
NSI) and placed the temp sensor in the sump and the result was very
unrealistic high temps since there was no bulk of oil to mix with the very
hot oil from the pistons and bearings. In transmissions the proper place
is in the sump as well for all the same reasons.
All said, my judgement is to place the sensor at the inlet to the engine
after the cooler and filter. The outlet of the oil pump is even better if
it is accessable.
Paul
============
At 12:53 PM 3/22/05 -0700, I wrote:
>Unconventional placement. What is desired is the temp of the lube is before
>it gets to the oil pump and the the rest of the engine. Thus you know if
>the cooler is doing its job. Proper care and feeding of the engine depends
>on what is going in, not what is coming out. Same comment goes for coolant
>temp measure what is going in not what is coming out. Remember that the oil
>being discharged from the engine is normally very hot after coming in
>contact with pistons and bearings. Oil properties degrade because a
>fraction gets overheated and thus the oil must be either tested or changed
>to assure the important properties remain.
>
>BTW, if you pop the hood of an auto with an oil temp gauge you will find
>the sensor on top of the filter where it sees the oil entering the engine.
>Sometimes you might find the sensor is in the oil gallery just down stream
>of the oil pump near the oil pressure gauge sensor.
>
>If you find a source that disagrees with the above feel free to ignore the
>bad advice. :-)
> Paul
>============
>
>At 10:22 AM 3/22/05 -0800, you wrote:
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
> >
> >I will check on the source. No I have the oil temp sensor at the filter
> >housing so it sees the oil that is coming from the engine before the cooler.
> >I have hear differing opinions on this but I want to see how hot it got not
> >how cool it was. I don't think there is a big difference.
> >
> >Rick
Message 23
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
In anticipation of a long trip in my Avid last week I filled the tank a
couple of days prior to departure. Well, the fuel expanded while the
plane was in the hangar and dripped over and under the wing creating an
ugly blue fuel stain. I tried using a range of different stain removers
with no success. Does anyone have any hints about how to remove the
stains? I figure I may have to repaint the wing if all else fails.
I have silver wings and just wet a rag in more fuel. this disolves what is
on the wing and I rub it dry. No problems. I was getting problems because my
cap gaskets were leaking. I know the answer is Mercedes gaskets but we have
to buy the whole cap here in Australia so I made new gaskets from fuel
resistant 1/8" [ 3mm ] insertion rubber and smeared rubber grease on them.
No more problems.
Rex.
rexjan@bigpond.com
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Today's flight |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@simnet.is
Hej Don
Looks like you still have a lot of snow over there. The weather has not been Kitfox
flyable for the last two weeks here in Iceland until finally to day we had
very nice weather. So of I went and logged 2,5hrs.
I forgott the camera at home so there are no photos.
If you like to see Kitfox photos just browse through my web page
http://that.is/slettan
Click on "Myndir"(photos). My KFs reg. is TF-118,
its a KF I fuselag with KF II upgraded wings, serial nr. #220.
First flown in 1990.
Regards from Iceland, Thor
Message 25
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Sterling" <sterling@pgrb.com>
I had an Avid Sportster with two wing tanks. When 100LL seeped and stained
my light-gray wings (painted in buterate) I used Mountain Dew (diet) with
baking soda and it worked great. Don't use regular Mountain Dew with sugar.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuel stains
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
>
> In anticipation of a long trip in my Avid last week I filled the tank a
> couple of days prior to departure. Well, the fuel expanded while the
> plane was in the hangar and dripped over and under the wing creating an
> ugly blue fuel stain. I tried using a range of different stain removers
> with no success. Does anyone have any hints about how to remove the
> stains? I figure I may have to repaint the wing if all else fails.
>
> I have silver wings and just wet a rag in more fuel. this disolves what is
> on the wing and I rub it dry. No problems. I was getting problems because
my
> cap gaskets were leaking. I know the answer is Mercedes gaskets but we
have
> to buy the whole cap here in Australia so I made new gaskets from fuel
> resistant 1/8" [ 3mm ] insertion rubber and smeared rubber grease on them.
> No more problems.
> Rex.
> rexjan@bigpond.com
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Kitfox/RR Video Mail A Tool For Us? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: KITFOXZ@aol.com
Hello Foxers,
Road Runner High Speed Internet Service is advertising a new product for
their E-mail users. It is a video e-mail service. They give you a 45 second
window to record a video clip with your web cam and e-mail it to whomever. The
clip is saved on their servers for 30 days or so.
Funny thing is, my son is a home shop wood worker who is a member of a wood
worker forum site with over 25,000 members world wide. He made a video clip
to demonstrate a wood cutting set up and instead of e-mailing it to his small
group of followers, he pasted the clip's URL to the forum's site.
Road Runner called him up tonight and said they had over 450 hits on his
video clip in a very short time and it crashed their server. Now he is banned
from sending any more for 48 hours while they try to figure this all out!
A picture is worth a thousand words but, a video clip is worth millions of
understood ideas! Is this cool or what, for our purposes?
John P. Marzluf
Columbus, Ohio
Outback, (out back in the garage)
Message 27
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| Subject: | Here Is The RR Add URL: |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: KITFOXZ@aol.com
_http://content.rr.com/rdrun/sample/samplevid.html_
(http://content.rr.com/rdrun/sample/samplevid.html)
Message 28
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| Subject: | NSI Oil pressure |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
Paul, I would have to disagree. It wouldn't seem important to know if the
oil cooler was working or not unless your oil was too hot. It does not
matter how cool the oil is, unless of course its below operating
temperature. My point is you need to know how hot the oil really got and its
the how hot you want at a certain temperature. In my case I like 210F. The
oil also needs to be hot to the filter first , then the cooler, then the
engine. If you were not using a remote filter , mute point. If you were not
using a remote cooler same. I don't like the sender in the pan because of
the possibility of the probe end becoming a potential foreign object. There
have been problems. The best system would use dual gauges and senders or one
gage and a flip switch to see the temperature difference between hot and
cooled oil. I still think know how hot it got is better than measuring it
anywhere else.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of paul wilson
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil pressure
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: paul wilson <pwilson@climber.org>
Unconventional placement. What is desired is the temp of the lube is before
it gets to the oil pump and the the rest of the engine. Thus you know if
the cooler is doing its job. Proper care and feeding of the engine depends
on what is going in, not what is coming out. Same comment goes for coolant
temp measure what is going in not what is coming out. Remember that the oil
being discharged from the engine is normally very hot after coming in
contact with pistons and bearings. Oil properties degrade because a
fraction gets overheated and thus the oil must be either tested or changed
to assure the important properties remain.
BTW, if you pop the hood of an auto with an oil temp gauge you will find
the sensor on top of the filter where it sees the oil entering the engine.
Sometimes you might find the sensor is in the oil gallery just down stream
of the oil pump near the oil pressure gauge sensor.
If you find a source that disagrees with the above feel free to ignore the
bad advice. :-)
Paul
============
At 10:22 AM 3/22/05 -0800, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
>
>I will check on the source. No I have the oil temp sensor at the filter
>housing so it sees the oil that is coming from the engine before the
cooler.
>I have hear differing opinions on this but I want to see how hot it got not
>how cool it was. I don't think there is a big difference.
>
>Rick
Message 29
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kirk Martenson" <kirk@mninter.net>
Hello:
I have a Kitfox classic IV with a 912UL attached to it. I have been having a flooding
problem in that the engine is hard to start because there is too much
gas getting into the float bowl. When I take the bowl off, the gas comes gushing
out as soon as the seal between the bowl and the carb body is broken. When
the needle valve is opened, it sounds like there is air pressure pushing the
gas into the bowl. I checked the level of the floats, they seem to be OK. I
also purchased new floats from BING. Very expensive at $ 36.00 each. The new
floats did not fix the problem.
Only one carb is doing this. The other side is fine.
I did call Lockwood, they said that it does not sound like a fuel pump problem
since it is only one carb. Unless the spring in the needle is stronger on one
than the other.
I also called BING. They did not have an answer either.
I have noticed a black residue in the inside of the carbs. I brought this up awhile
ago, but nobody had heard of such a thing.
Thanks,
Kirk Martenson
Kitfox classic IV
Message 30
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| Subject: | Wing Pin Tension/pitch/etc |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "adamkmcc" <adamkmcc@mountain.net>
I am flying a KF II with a 582. Aircraft is light weighing in at 460lbs. After
a few hours of flying the pin on the right wing leading edge is consistently
tight. It is a bit hard to pull out the hairpin to remove the pin to fold the
wing. Does this indicate a problem or is this common? The left side is generally
loose but that might be do to the fact that I am a beginner and am mainly
doing take-offs and landings and staying in a left pattern.
Also I have searched for stall in this KF and can get it down in the low 30's
IAS with no buffeting or obvious sogginess. Does anyone have an idea of what
a good approach speed might be in this KF with a weight of 460 and pilot weight
of <150 ??
I have been approaching at 55 but I am not sure what I am actually touching down
at. It feels like my approach should be and could be much slower but I am just
going by what I have read here. If I have been in the low 30s IAS without stalling
would it be safe to say that I could approach as low as 42 without being
at an unnecessary risk of stalling?
I also think that this KF is loosing pitch if that's likely and possible. I
currently have around twenty flights on it. BTW, it was built in 93' with 18hours
on the Hobbs and has a GSC three blade prop. The first few flights I could
firewall it on t/o with it taching around 6700. It climbed out pitched at 55
IAS at around 1300fpm. The more I flew it the more it seemed to have to potential
to over-rev. The last few flights were difficult as I could only use about
70% of the throttle and the engine was at redline without the climb performance
that it initially had with the same RPMs when I flew it the first time or
two.
Does this problem have to be pitch or is there anything in that gearbox that
can slip? I have read a tale or two on here about a monstercheater bar on a
nut in the gear box but I don't think that it's the case on this one but I would
like to have some opinions. This KF sat in a hangar from 93 till now so is
it likely that the maple has shrank and the prop needs repitched? Will I need
special tools or will I just need safety wire and something to measure with? I
have a couple of high end Suunto compass that have clinometers in them. I think
that they might be more accurate than anything for pitching the blades. Has
anyone used a clinometer for setting pitch?
Tailwheel instructors are non-existent in this neck of the woods and I do not
think that there is a KF w/582 in my state so you guys are my only known source
of info and I hope that you do respond. I am leaving the KF on the ground
until I get the over-revving figured out and I would like to know if the tension
on the hairpin is OK, common or unacceptable. I posted a question three months
back that never did get an answer so I hope you come to the front and enlighten
me this time............
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Rear Spar Carry Through |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Leach Family" <leach@wk.planet.gen.nz>
Hi Lloyd.
I dont know about Kitfoxes but Avids have the aluminum supports for the
lexan roof and turtledeck riveted to both the front and rear carrythrough
tubes. My Avid has 1/8" rivets at 2 inch centres right across both
carrythrough tubes as per building manuel instructions. I suggest you
contact Steve Winder at Airdale and check if Avids and Kitfoxes are still
structurally the same.
Brian Leach
New Zealand.
----- Original Message -----
> Group,
> What are your thoughts, While working on the rebuild of my ground looped
> Model 5 I noticed the previous builder has riveted the forward turtle deck
> support to the inside of the rear spar carry through, according to the
> manual this is a big no no. Any one have any thoughts on whether or not I
> need to do a fix? If so, what?
> Thanks,
> Lloyd
>
>
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