---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 04/08/05: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:04 AM - SV: Back in the Game (Michel Verheughe) 2. 01:14 AM - Re: Turbo Boost EA-81 s (John Anderson) 3. 01:35 AM - Charging circuit (Rex & Jan Shaw) 4. 04:12 AM - Re: Turbo Boost EA-81 s (Fox5flyer) 5. 07:25 AM - Bungee Cords (r.thomas@za.pwc.com) 6. 08:13 AM - Re: Model 3 Oil Reservoir (Randy Daughenbaugh) 7. 09:56 AM - Re: Was Rudder pedal - weeks away... (Kerry Skyring) 8. 09:59 AM - Re: Attaching Seat Pan (Michael Gibbs) 9. 10:11 AM - Re: Model 3 Oil Reservoir (Kerry Skyring) 10. 10:16 AM - Re: Back in the Game (Kerry Skyring) 11. 10:58 AM - Re: Charging circuit (Clint Bazzill) 12. 02:14 PM - Re: Bungee Cords (Dee Young) 13. 02:59 PM - Re: Attaching Seat Pan (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 14. 03:28 PM - Re: Turbo Boost EA-81 s (kurt schrader) 15. 06:16 PM - Re: Turbo Boost EA-81 s (Rick) 16. 06:55 PM - Re: Rotax 582 Noise Reduction (Guy Buchanan) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:04:05 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: Back in the Game --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > From: Michael Gibbs [MichaelGibbs@cox.net] > Just wanted to let you know that I am once again a 'fox builder, this > time a Series 6! Dear Mike, Your positive attitude and joie-de-vivre throught your unfortunate accident and resulting injuries, has been an inspiration for all of us. We wish you the best luck with your new project and thousand years of beautiful Kitfox flying! Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:14:16 AM PST US From: "John Anderson" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Turbo Boost EA-81 s --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" Yep I'm with you there Rick, I found the manual boost system too risky and blew a piston (on the ground) during test runs. So gone to the standard pot again like you.... ~j~ From: "Rick" Subject: Kitfox-List: Turbo Boost EA-81 s --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" Well for the few crazy turbo folks on the list I was finally able to confirm my suspicion about how the boost controller operates at altitude. In a nut shell with my manual set up I could easily get 45 too 50 IMP at 10,000 feet. It is a bit tricky to operate, slight changes make quick changes. A bit to much work load for me. I plan on making a system that will allow an easy return to auto control. In the auto mode I could only make about 37 IMP at 10,000 feet. Now The turbo is the larger IHI unit but has a slightly larger compressor wheel, same exhaust turbine plus the housing is coated and the inlet machined a bit. Similar results I think could be obtained with the unmodified larger unit. Additionally with the bigger compressor the bypass opening had to be enlarged to prevent over boost. Right now I am running it with the stock bypass control pot. I will keep those posted that are interested and as we all do delete if now of interest. Rick N656T Find the coolest online games @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/gaming ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:35:28 AM PST US From: "Rex & Jan Shaw" Subject: Kitfox-List: Charging circuit --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" Joel, As I recall it, the voltage regulator requires a load at all times when the engine is turning. So to shut off the charging circuit you will need to put something across that circuit to ensure an adequate load to avoid frying the regulator. I don't recall the needed resistance, but foggy memory suggests that some put a light bulb across the circuit or a suitable resistor. I can't remember the values needed. Lowell Lowell, I run a 582 and I think the charging cicuit might be the same as your 912. With mine at any rate you can have either of two Tympanium regulators. Note this is stamped on the units in extremely small writing. One unit is type 866-080 and this is the one that requires a minimum 1 amp load. This can be a 12volt 15 watt globe or 12 ohm 12watt resistor. The other unit is type 264-870 and requires no minimum load however if not feeding into the battery it should have a 2,000 microfarad capacitor across the output. Rex. rexjan@bigpond.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:12:38 AM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Turbo Boost EA-81 s --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" Keep 'em coming Rick. This is what "experimenting" is all about. Deke > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" > > Well for the few crazy turbo folks on the list I was finally able to confirm > my suspicion about how the boost controller operates at altitude. In a nut > shell with my manual set up I could easily get 45 too 50 IMP at 10,000 feet. > It is a bit tricky to operate, slight changes make quick changes. A bit to > much work load for me. I plan on making a system that will allow an easy > return to auto control. In the auto mode I could only make about 37 IMP at > 10,000 feet. Now The turbo is the larger IHI unit but has a slightly larger > compressor wheel, same exhaust turbine plus the housing is coated and the > inlet machined a bit. Similar results I think could be obtained with the > unmodified larger unit. Additionally with the bigger compressor the bypass > opening had to be enlarged to prevent over boost. Right now I am running it > with the stock bypass control pot. I will keep those posted that are > interested and as we all do delete if now of interest. > > Rick N656T > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:25:02 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Bungee Cords From: r.thomas@za.pwc.com 15:24:16, Serialize complete at 08/04/2005 15:24:16 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: r.thomas@za.pwc.com Hi there It is time to replace my Bungee cords on my KF2. I have a mate who has a spare set, but I think that they were for a KF5. Does this matter - are the cords different between the 2 and 5? Regards Roger The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:13:36 AM PST US From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Model 3 Oil Reservoir --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Steve, You need the plugs in place to get the compression to pressure the crankcase with blowby to push the oil out of the crankcase into the oil reservoir. It takes me about 7 revolutions to get the impolite burp sounds that say the oil is all out of the crankcase. Randy, Series 5/7 912S . -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Magdic Subject: Kitfox-List: Model 3 Oil Reservoir --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Magdic" Do to work, weather, and vacation, my Model 3 with 912 has sat in the hanger for about three weeks now. Since the oil reservoir is mounted above the engine, all the oil has siphoned back in to the crank case. Usually I can hand crank the prop until it's pumped back to the reservoir. This last time I pulled the top plugs and cranked for about an hour before giving up. I ran the engine for 3 hours without a problem before it sat in the hanger. I can only assume the oil system needs the venting procedure recommended by Rotax. Do any of you 912 owner/operators have experience with this type of problem? If so, would you please give me some input on this procedure? Thanks in advance. Steve Magdic N490PA ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:56:31 AM PST US From: "Kerry Skyring" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Was Rudder pedal - weeks away... --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kerry Skyring" Kerry, you will notice I did not say how many weeks! David I get the picture. We're entering the best weather time of the year here i.e. for flying. But it's also the time when family and other incursions on building time occur. I think we are being a bit optimistic but having booked the inspection it ensures we will do our best to meet the deadline. What has really helped is a heated hangar (central european winters are pretty severe) and all of the skilled people who wander through i.e. the glider maintenance guys who did the cable swaging, the club member who's an auto electrician who did the wiring, the aircraft maintenance engineer who says "that's ok" and so on. It's also good to have Rotax powered planes around so we can check our installation against Katana's etc. It has still taken five years but the end is in sight. Let us know about the first flight and I will do the same. Our philosophy is - it will be finished when it is finished. Kerry. My friends and >family have nick named my plane "3 more months" because of my habit of >answering the question of "when is it going to fly?" with "3 more >months". I have to paint a few more components (ie wing tips and lift >strut fairings) and correct some painting problems, but am about 90% on >painting. I have rigged the wings, but have to put them back on the >plane. The engine is ready to start but not started because my paint >booth is blocking the garage door. All electrical is done, fuel lines, >static lines, interior installed, and all guages and instruments that can >be tested without running the engine have been tested. The airplane is >registered and all I need is weight and balance, inspection and >airworthiness certificate. I'm guessing 6 weeks (I plan on taking amost a >week off for Sun-N-Fun). I'm not sure what your weather is but I have >been slowed down by high humidity we have in the southern US. Sounds like >your estimate is conservative. Besides my other project (a RV-9A) has >slowed me down. > >> > > > > > > > > > http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:59:59 AM PST US From: Michael Gibbs Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Attaching Seat Pan --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs AlbertaIV@aol.com sez: >you don't need anything to hold the pans down, your rear end and the >seat belts will do that. That's not always the case, Don. A buddy of mine was flying his Series 5 over west Texas when he encountered moderate to severe turbulence. Even though his seat belt was on tight, a down draft hit him and he and the seat came up off of the tubing. The seat came back down missing the forward support and ended up on the flight control tubes. He landed safely but with considerable difficulty. You can bet that he attached that seat pan afterwards. Mike G. N728KF ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:11:06 AM PST US From: "Kerry Skyring" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Model 3 Oil Reservoir --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kerry Skyring" Randy wrote.. It takes me about 7 revolutions to get the impolite burp sounds that say the >oil is all out of the crankcase. I am just starting to become familiar with Rotax operation but it took me at least 20 revolutions to get the "burp" through the reservoir on the 912s in the C150. Not sure what causes the variation but I think a fast pull through works better than a slow one. But as I said still learning this stuff. The "burping" procedure is required for all of our club's rotax powered planes i.e 3 Katana's and a C150. K. > >. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Magdic >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >Subject: Kitfox-List: Model 3 Oil Reservoir > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Magdic" > >Do to work, weather, and vacation, my Model 3 with 912 has sat in the >hanger >for >about three weeks now. Since the oil reservoir is mounted above the engine, >all >the oil has siphoned back in to the crank case. Usually I can hand crank >the >prop >until it's pumped back to the reservoir. This last time I pulled the top >plugs and cranked >for about an hour before giving up. I ran the engine for 3 hours without a >problem >before it sat in the hanger. I can only assume the oil system needs the >venting >procedure recommended by Rotax. >Do any of you 912 owner/operators have experience with this type of >problem? >If >so, would you please give me some input on this procedure? >Thanks in advance. >Steve Magdic >N490PA > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:16:13 AM PST US From: "Kerry Skyring" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Back in the Game --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kerry Skyring" Michael Gibbs wrote.. >Just wanted to let you know that I am once again a 'fox builder, this >time a Series 6! Michael I have many times asked myself "what if?" What if I crashed? What if my daughter (commercial pilot) crashed - what if - what if -what if? Would I get up and do it again? I like to think I would do what you are doing. Thanks for inspiring us. K. > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:58:18 AM PST US From: "Clint Bazzill" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Charging circuit --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clint Bazzill" Doesn't your solenoid disconnect for your battery supply a load to the regulator. It draws about 1 amp when you turn on the master. Just don't shut down the master before you shut off the engine. Clint ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:14:53 PM PST US From: "Dee Young" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Bungee Cords Seal-Send-Time: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 15:14:14 -0600 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" As I recall the bungee cords on the Model II are 60" long. In looking at the Skystar web site the bungees for the Series 5 are a different stock number and are possibly a different length and diameter. I may not work. Dee Young Model II N345DY Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: r.thomas@za.pwc.com To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 8:21 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Bungee Cords --> Kitfox-List message posted by: r.thomas@za.pwc.com Hi there It is time to replace my Bungee cords on my KF2. I have a mate who has a spare set, but I think that they were for a KF5. Does this matter - are the cords different between the 2 and 5? Regards Roger The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:59:06 PM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Attaching Seat Pan --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com In a message dated 4/8/2005 4:42:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, MichaelGibbs@cox.net writes: That's not always the case, Don. A buddy of mine was flying his Series 5 over west Texas when he encountered moderate to severe turbulence. Even though his seat belt was on tight, a down draft hit him and he and the seat came up off of the tubing. The seat came back down missing the forward support and ended up on the flight control tubes. Mike, A very good point. Sometimes we do and say things that call for a wake up. I'll put them back on. Do Not Archive Don Smythe Classic IV w/ 582 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:28:46 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Turbo Boost EA-81 s --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Thanks for the info Rick. That will be some motor when you are done. With all the changes you made, I wish you had put roller bearings on the crank too. Would really reduce the need for that high idle rpm oil pressure. But that would require a whole new crankcase too, I bet. Just dreamin', Am I correct, you added a backup coolant pump for cooldown? I'd thought about installing a preoiler that would do the same for the turbo, but keep the oil pressure up before and after running too. Prevent that hot oil damage at the turbo after shutdown. Preoilers just cost so much. Please keep us up on your progress. Thanks, Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo --- Rick wrote: > Well for the few crazy turbo folks on the list I was > finally able to confirm my suspicion about how the > boost controller operates at altitude. __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:16:18 PM PST US From: "Rick" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Turbo Boost EA-81 s --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" I did put an auxiliary pump on to get a quicker cool down for the turbo. As soon as I figure a good average time I will set an electronic timer to come on after shut down and run the pump and heater fan. I really wanted to go with the pre oilier but I learned it would cause oil to leak into the turbine and compressor section. That can eventually cause an out of balance problem and big failure of the blades, not a good thing. Apparently the seals use the pressure of the gases to seal the oil out. I do have a pre-luber and a bypass filter to hook up. One day I will be done......yea right. Rick N656T -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Turbo Boost EA-81 s --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Thanks for the info Rick. That will be some motor when you are done. With all the changes you made, I wish you had put roller bearings on the crank too. Would really reduce the need for that high idle rpm oil pressure. But that would require a whole new crankcase too, I bet. Just dreamin', Am I correct, you added a backup coolant pump for cooldown? I'd thought about installing a preoiler that would do the same for the turbo, but keep the oil pressure up before and after running too. Prevent that hot oil damage at the turbo after shutdown. Preoilers just cost so much. Please keep us up on your progress. Thanks, Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo --- Rick wrote: > Well for the few crazy turbo folks on the list I was > finally able to confirm my suspicion about how the > boost controller operates at altitude. __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:55:52 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 582 Noise Reduction --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan At 09:32 PM 4/7/2005 -0700, you wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: aerocon1@telusplanet.net > >Unless they have changed their process, Skystar was modifing the exhaust Y >pipe (exhaust manifold) to allow the whole exchaust to fit inside the >cowling. It does not take much of a change in length to make a major change >in performance. My engine / exhaust was purchased after market. I wonder if I have an unmodified Y pipe. My exhaust just barely fits, meaning that when I use the plates instead of the springs the plates rest against the cowl. Not good. I'll have to go back to the springs to get it to fit, and even then the cowl will only be about 1/2" away. >Guy, just remember...there is no free lunch... There are some high >performance >exchausts on the market for the 502 and the 582. The only problem with them >is they can make the engine very "peaky".. One make in particular creates a >hot spot and rough running from 4800 to 5400 rmp. If you can operate your >engine outside those rpms you can do ok, otherwise there is a big flat >spot in >the performance.. We have switched more than a couple of these exhausts back >to stock after the owner got tired of trying to figure out the correct >jetting. >Hope this info helps..... Stock exhaust works the best. I remember this from my motorcycle days. Kind of like a Yamaha 125, eh? Thanks for the reminder. Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar. Do not archive