Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:50 AM - Test (John Anderson)
2. 05:56 AM - Re: [Please Read] Matronics Email Server Upgrade Complete! (Rick)
3. 07:01 AM - GPS (Mike Chaney)
4. 08:00 AM - Re: Realistic Speed (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
5. 08:07 AM - Re: GPS (Steve Maher)
6. 08:09 AM - Re: GPS (Steve Maher)
7. 08:21 AM - Re: GPS (kirk hull)
8. 11:08 AM - Re: GPS (Clint Bazzill)
9. 11:19 AM - Re: Realistic Speed (Bruce Harrington)
10. 12:27 PM - Re: CHT Probe (Bob Robertson)
11. 01:24 PM - test (John Anderson)
12. 03:11 PM - Re: CHT Probe (Donna and Roger McConnell)
13. 03:11 PM - Re: Realistic Speed (Jerry Liles)
14. 05:40 PM - Rough idle (Rex & Jan Shaw)
15. 06:08 PM - Re: [Please Read] Matronics Email Server Upgrade Complete! (John King)
16. 06:53 PM - Re: Realistic Speed (jimshumaker)
17. 07:34 PM - Re: Rough idle (Floran Higgins)
18. 08:27 PM - Props ... the real story (Tim Kaser)
19. 09:30 PM - Re: Realistic Speed (Graeme Toft)
20. 09:35 PM - Re: Realistic Speed (Graeme Toft)
21. 10:04 PM - Re: 582 clutch (gary)
Message 1
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Test only
==========================
Find the coolest online games @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/gaming
Message 2
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| Subject: | [Please Read] Matronics Email Server Upgrade Complete! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
Matt, thanks for keeping us all going. We would be lost with out your
support.
Rick N656T
do no archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
Subject: Kitfox-List: [Please Read] Matronics Email Server Upgrade
Complete!
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
9:24pm PDT 4/17/2005
Dear Listers,
The upgrade of the Matronics Email Server can be considered complete at
this time. All known issues related to the upgrade process have been
resolved and email services are running normal. The Nightly Digest
processing has not yet been tested and will wait for tonight's update.
If you encounter any odd behavior with respect to the Matronics Email
Server over the next few days, please contact me via email at
dralle@matronics.com or if that fails try dralle@speakeasy.net.
Thanks to everyone for being patient through this arduous process of a
major system upgrade!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
At 12:37 PM 4/16/2005 Saturday, Matt Dralle wrote:
>Dear Listers,
>
>I will be upgrading the Matronics Email Server this weekend. This
>includes some hardware improvements - more memory, faster, more capable
>processors - as well as a complete operating system upgrade from
>scratch. I hope to have both the old system and the new system running at
>the same time to minimize the actual impact of the upgrade.
>
>Hopefully there will be little actual downtime during the transition, but
>a few posts may get lost in the shuffle. If you don't see your post show
>up on the List in the normal amount of time (plus a little bit), then
>please just try posting it again.
>
>Upgrading the Matronics Email Server operating system (from Redhat Linux
>7.2 to Redhat Linux WS 4) is a sizeable undertaking and requires a great
>deal of work to port all of the utilities, programs, and scripts over to
>the new system. As I've already mentioned, both the old and new systems
>will be on line at the same time, so interruption should be held to an
>absolute minimal. You might see a couple of odd test messages during the
>cut-over or other odd messages; please just ignore them.
>
>I have setup a new System Status Web Page that I will use to update List
>Members on the current status of the email and web systems. Please refer
>to it as often as you like:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/SystemStatus/
>
>
>Thank you for your continued support of the List Services at
>Matronics! Its your yearly Contributions that make these major upgrades
>possible!
>
>Best regards,
>
>Matt Dralle
>Matronics Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Message 3
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Chaney <mdps_mc@SWOCA.NET>
I'm looking for a fairly simple GPS unit that would work well in my Kitfox.
My major need is direct point to point and the standard ground speed, time
to destination, elapsed time, etc. I had a simple Magellian but it always
seemed to lose the satellites and it is old so I don't even use it now.
It would be nice if I could also use this unit on my motorcycle.
Any suggestions?
Mike
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Realistic Speed |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
I found with my model IV that dragging flapperons were a real drag on the speed.
you may want to play with your rigging until you get neutral stick at your cruise
speed.
also, check your tach with an optical tach, mine tends to drift over time and part
on my annual inspection is to recalibrate the tach. mine has a hole, originally
covered by a foil sticker into which a small driver can be used to adjust
the needle position to coinside with the optical reading.
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft"
>
> Thanks for the comments Jerry. I suppose what triggered my initial email is
> the reports of speed achieved by similar models to my own. I fly with a
> group of aircraft and as you have rightly mentioned the low speed
> characteristics of the model 1 are great and Im certainly not complianing
> about this, but another 5 - 8 knots would allow me to keep up with the
> tribe. I have compared speed with a number of other aircraft and my airspeed
> indicator is reasonably accurate. The tacho is an area I havent investigated
> at length but I believe there is some error there. I may have some issues
> with the flapperons hanging a bit low on the trailing edge. This is being
> offset by using elevator to hold the nose up. Not a lot of pressure required
> but enough between flapperons down and elevators up to give some induced
> drag possibly. Any further comments would be appreciated.
>
> Cheers
> Graeme
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jerry Liles"
> To:
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Realistic Speed
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles
> >
> > Graeme
> > I think 65 kts is not too bad for a Model I. It actually isn't bad for
> > later versions with the 582. What you need to do is confirm the
> > accuracy of your ASI. Many homebuilts have an ASI that is useful as a
> > rate indicator but isn't otherwise terribly accurate, being terrifically
> > optimistic or pessimistic. I usually just ignore reports of airspeed
> > unless I know the speeds have been properly confirmed. You also need to
> > confirm the accuracy of your Tach. Many, if not most, Tachs used in
> > these airplanes are even less accurate, often being off by several
> > hundred rpm. The Westach on Tootie Mae reads 250 to 300 rpm high when
> > indicating 5800rpm. I use an optical tach to find prop rpm and have a
> > chart to convert to engine rpms and use that to determine cruise and max
> > rpms on the tach. So, as you can see, if your ASI reads low and your
> > tach reads high you won't see the speeds you have or get all the
> > performance you can. By the way, the Model I is not particularly
> > speedy, but it is a blast for short field and low and slow sight seeing
> > with the doors open. If it hasn't been built too heavy, almost nothing
> > else can touch it for STOL and slow flight. Finally a different prop
> > may well improve cruise speed at the expense of STOL performance.
> >
> > Jerry Liles
> >
> > Graeme Toft wrote:
> >
> >>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft"
> >>
> >>Hi guys, for some time I have read about the speeds that those of you with
> >>582's are getting from their early models and am wondering what I can do
> >>to my model 1 to achieve similar results. I am flat out getting 65 knots
> >>ground speed at 5800 rpm and have faired everything but the wheels. I'm
> >>not after miracles but is 75 knots achievable with some further tinkering
> >>and if so where do I begin
> >>
> >>Graeme
> >>
> >>
> >>-----------------------------------------------
> >>Scanned by Bayou Internet for all known viruses.
> >>http://www.bayou.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
I found with my model IV that dragging flapperons were a real drag on the speed.
you may want to play with your rigging until you get neutral stick at your cruise
speed.
also, check your tach with an optical tach, mine tends to drift over time and part
on my annual inspection is to recalibrate the tach. mine has a hole, originally
covered by a foil sticker into which a small driver can be used to adjust
the needle position to coinside with the optical reading.
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" <MSM@BYTEROCKY.NET>
Thanks for the comments Jerry. I suppose what triggered my initial email is
the reports of speed achieved by similar models to my own. I fly with a
group of aircraft and as you have rightly mentioned the low speed
characteristics of the model 1 are great and Im certainly not complianing
about this, but another 5 - 8 knots would allow me to keep up with the
tribe. I have compared speed with a number of other aircraft and my airspeed
indicator is reasonably accurate. The tacho is an area I havent investigated
at length but I believe there is some error there. I may have some issues
with the flapperons hanging a bit low on the trailing edge. This is being
offset by u
sing elevator to hold the nose up. Not a lot of pressure required
but enough between flapperons down and elevators up to give some induced
drag possibly. Any further comments would be appreciated.
Cheers
Graeme
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Liles" <WLILES@BAYOU.COM>
To: <KITFOX-LIST@MATRONICS.COM>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Realistic Speed
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles <WLILES@BAYOU.COM>
Graeme
I think 65 kts is not too bad for a Model I. It actually isn't bad for
later versions with the 582. What you need to do is confirm the
accuracy of your ASI. Many homebuilts have an ASI that is useful as a
rate indicator but isn't otherwise terribly accurate, being terrifically
optimistic or pessimistic. I usually just ignore reports of airspeed
&
gt; unless I know the speeds have been properly confirmed. You also need to
confirm the accuracy of your Tach. Many, if not most, Tachs used in
these airplanes are even less accurate, often being off by several
hundred rpm. The Westach on Tootie Mae reads 250 to 300 rpm high when
indicating 5800rpm. I use an optical tach to find prop rpm and have a
chart to convert to engine rpms and use that to determine cruise and max
rpms on the tach. So, as you can see, if your ASI reads low and your
tach reads high you won't see the speeds you have or get all the
performance you can. By the way, the Model I is not particularly
speedy, but it is a blast for short field and low and slow sight seeing
with the doors open. If it hasn't been built too heavy, almost nothing
else can touch it for STOL and slow flight. Finally a different
prop
may well improve cruise speed at the expense of STOL performance.
Jerry Liles
Graeme Toft wrote:
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" <MSM@BYTEROCKY.NET>
Hi guys, for some time I have read about the speeds that those of you with
582's are getting from their early models and am wondering what I can do
to my model 1 to achieve similar results. I am flat out getting 65 knots
ground speed at 5800 rpm and have faired everything but the wheels. I'm
not after miracles but is 75 knots achievable with some further tinkering
and if so where do I begin
Graeme
-----------------------------------------------
Scanned by Bayou Internet for all known v
iruses.
http://www.bayou.com
Message 5
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Maher <lilabner_45@yahoo.com>
My favorite is the Garmin Emap. It's an older hiker's and driver's GPS,
but it's reliable and the accuracy is fantastic. I've been using mine
for geocaching recently, and it gets me to literally within a foot of
the tresure chest, time and again. But it does not have an aviation
data base. I put in various airports as waypoints, and have no trouble
navigating to them later. The Emap has a slightly larger screen than
most handheld GPSs.
I also use a Lowrance Airmap 100, which works well enough. Slightly
more cumbersome to use than the Emap, takes four pencells instead of
two, and the screen is slightly smaller. But it has an aviation
database and can show you the borders of Class C, Class B etc.
airspace, military areas, etc.
Hope this helps.
Steve Maher
--- Mike Chaney <mdps_mc@swoca.net> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Chaney <mdps_mc@SWOCA.NET>
>
> I'm looking for a fairly simple GPS unit that would work well in my
> Kitfox.
> My major need is direct point to point and the standard ground speed,
> time
> to destination, elapsed time, etc. I had a simple Magellian but it
> always
> seemed to lose the satellites and it is old so I don't even use it
> now.
>
> It would be nice if I could also use this unit on my motorcycle.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Message 6
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Maher <lilabner_45@yahoo.com>
My favorite is the Garmin Emap. It's an older hiker's and driver's GPS,
but it's reliable and the accuracy is fantastic. I've been using mine
for geocaching recently, and it gets me to literally within a foot of
the tresure chest, time and again. But it does not have an aviation
data base. I put in various airports as waypoints, and have no trouble
navigating to them later. The Emap has a slightly larger screen than
most handheld GPSs.
I also use a Lowrance Airmap 100, which works well enough. Slightly
more cumbersome to use than the Emap, takes four pencells instead of
two, and the screen is slightly smaller. But it has an aviation
database and can show you the borders of Class C, Class B etc.
airspace, military areas, etc.
Hope this helps.
Steve Maher
--- Mike Chaney <mdps_mc@swoca.net> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Chaney <mdps_mc@SWOCA.NET>
>
> I'm looking for a fairly simple GPS unit that would work well in my
> Kitfox.
> My major need is direct point to point and the standard ground speed,
> time
> to destination, elapsed time, etc. I had a simple Magellian but it
> always
> seemed to lose the satellites and it is old so I don't even use it
> now.
>
> It would be nice if I could also use this unit on my motorcycle.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide
Message 7
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirk hull" <kirkhull@sbcglobal.net>
I just purchased a Garman pilotIII for $200.00 . It does every thing you
listed and more. you can pick one up on Ebay every day for around $200.
for some reason Everybody wants the new color units.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike Chaney
Subject: Kitfox-List: GPS
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Chaney <mdps_mc@SWOCA.NET>
I'm looking for a fairly simple GPS unit that would work well in my Kitfox.
My major need is direct point to point and the standard ground speed, time
to destination, elapsed time, etc. I had a simple Magellian but it always
seemed to lose the satellites and it is old so I don't even use it now.
It would be nice if I could also use this unit on my motorcycle.
Any suggestions?
Mike
Message 8
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clint Bazzill" <clint_bazzill@hotmail.com>
I have a GPS for sale. Its a portable (only portable built) Garmin GPS 100
AVD. Has aircraft tray, aircraft blade antenna. Has 2nd antenna used in
portable operation. Has built in batteries that are used when power is
disconnected and charges through the aircraft tray. Has new backup battery
installed, good for about 7 years and new 2100 mah MIMH batteries in the
pack. Unit with tray weighs only 39 oz. There are a lot of things I like
about it better then my new GNC300XL. Contact me offline or call (650) 712
1802 $475
From: "kirk hull" <kirkhull@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: GPS
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirk hull" <kirkhull@sbcglobal.net>
I just purchased a Garman pilotIII for $200.00 . It does every thing you
listed and more. you can pick one up on Ebay every day for around $200.
for some reason Everybody wants the new color units.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike Chaney
Subject: Kitfox-List: GPS
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Chaney <mdps_mc@SWOCA.NET>
I'm looking for a fairly simple GPS unit that would work well in my Kitfox.
My major need is direct point to point and the standard ground speed, time
to destination, elapsed time, etc. I had a simple Magellian but it always
seemed to lose the satellites and it is old so I don't even use it now.
It would be nice if I could also use this unit on my motorcycle.
Any suggestions?
Mike
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Realistic Speed |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" <aerowood@mcsi.net>
Hi Graeme,
Try rigging your flaperons so you have some negative (up) incidence
available.
bh
Ex-N194KF, IV-1200 582ed, 800+ hrs
> Thanks for the comments Jerry. I suppose what triggered my initial email
> is
> the reports of speed achieved by similar models to my own. I fly with a
> group of aircraft and as you have rightly mentioned the low speed
> characteristics of the model 1 are great and Im certainly not complianing
> about this, but another 5 - 8 knots would allow me to keep up with the
> tribe. I have compared speed with a number of other aircraft and my
> airspeed
> indicator is reasonably accurate. The tacho is an area I havent
> investigated
> at length but I believe there is some error there. I may have some issues
> with the flapperons hanging a bit low on the trailing edge. This is being
> offset by using elevator to hold the nose up. Not a lot of pressure
> required
> but enough between flapperons down and elevators up to give some induced
> drag possibly. Any further comments would be appreciated.
>
> Cheers
> Graeme
Message 10
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Robertson" <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
Jim,
Thanks, thats just the info Roger needed. We will keep Westachs parts
numbers on hand for the next person that "needs to know"
Thanks again
Bob R
----- Original Message -----
From: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: CHT Probe
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
>
> Roger,
>
> Been following the thread and just thought this could make it a little
> easier...
>
> I believe the 1" tip is for the CHT and the 1/2" is for the Oil Temp.
> You'll need to replace the VDO sensors that are in the engine.
>
> Westach Temperature Sensor 399S10-1.5L
> 10x1.5 mm thrd 1" Tip
>
> Westach Temperature Sensor 399S10-1.5S
> 10x1.5mm thrd 1/2" Tip
>
> Westach Thermocouple 712-2DWK EGT
> 48" Type K
>
> Fly Safe !!
> John & Debra McBean
> www.sportplanellc.com
> "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Donna and
Roger
> McConnell
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: CHT Probe
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Donna and Roger McConnell"
> <rdmac@swbell.net>
>
>
> Bob,
> You are correct. I looked today and the heads have a counter bore that is
> just big enough to allow for the O.D. of the plug. There is no room for
that
> type of sensor. I'm calling Westach tomorrow and see what they recommend
for
> a CHT probe on a Rotax engine. I do agree with Steve that I want to
monitor
> the health of my engine as much as I can.
> Roger Mac
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Robertson
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: CHT Probe
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Robertson"
> <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
>
> Steve,
>
> There is no way to get a CHT probe under the plug on a 912...There is
simply
> no room.
>
> regards
>
> Bob Robertson
> Light Engine Services Ltd.
> Rotax Service Center
> St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
> Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
> Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
> www.rtx-av-engines.ca
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: CHT Probe
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper"
<spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
> >
> > If it was my bird and I was risking my butt in it I'd sensor up. That is
> > to say that regardless of what's provided by Rotax, I would install Quad
> > CHT, Quad EGT, AND Coolant Temp. I monitor mine closely. CHT under the
> > plug?...we've been do'in it that way for years. It's accepted method.
> >
> > steve
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> > AlbertaIV@aol.com
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: CHT Probe
> >
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 4/17/2005 3:30:41 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > pwilson@climber.org writes:
> >
> >
> > BTW, I think the sensors on the coolant pipe is a good way to go,but
> > its not
> > what Rotax recommends.
> >
> > Thanks Paul
> >
> >
> > Paul,
> > This is something I tried in order to be able to measure in/out
> > water
> > temps at the radiator. I still have the normal coolant temp probe
> > installed.
> > I've always heard it's basically a waste of time to install CHT on a
> > water
> > cooled 582. I simply used the probes as a temporary setup to get the
> > above
> > differential readings. However, it worked so well and I believe it
> > gives maybe
> > more useful information than it did when hooked to the plugs for CHT.
> > I may
> > keep it this way.
> > I offer this disclaimer that I did not intend to suggest different
> > hookup over what's recommended by Rotax. Now, I can't get sued.
> >
> > Don Smythe
> > Classic IV w/ 582
> >
> >
>
>
Message 11
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Test, I seem to be getting everone's messages bar my own ---- perhaps not a
bad thing---- but just wondering if anyone else is getting this??
Need a new job? Check out XtraMSN Careers http://xtramsn.co.nz/careers
Message 12
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Donna and Roger McConnell" <rdmac@swbell.net>
John,
Thanks, I'm calling Westach right now.
Roger Mac
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jdmcbean
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: CHT Probe
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Roger,
Been following the thread and just thought this could make it a little
easier...
I believe the 1" tip is for the CHT and the 1/2" is for the Oil Temp.
You'll need to replace the VDO sensors that are in the engine.
Westach Temperature Sensor 399S10-1.5L
10x1.5 mm thrd 1" Tip
Westach Temperature Sensor 399S10-1.5S
10x1.5mm thrd 1/2" Tip
Westach Thermocouple 712-2DWK EGT
48" Type K
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Donna and Roger
McConnell
Subject: Kitfox-List: CHT Probe
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Donna and Roger McConnell"
<rdmac@swbell.net>
Bob,
You are correct. I looked today and the heads have a counter bore that is
just big enough to allow for the O.D. of the plug. There is no room for that
type of sensor. I'm calling Westach tomorrow and see what they recommend for
a CHT probe on a Rotax engine. I do agree with Steve that I want to monitor
the health of my engine as much as I can.
Roger Mac
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Robertson
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: CHT Probe
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Robertson"
<aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
Steve,
There is no way to get a CHT probe under the plug on a 912...There is simply
no room.
regards
Bob Robertson
Light Engine Services Ltd.
Rotax Service Center
St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
www.rtx-av-engines.ca
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: CHT Probe
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
>
> If it was my bird and I was risking my butt in it I'd sensor up. That is
> to say that regardless of what's provided by Rotax, I would install Quad
> CHT, Quad EGT, AND Coolant Temp. I monitor mine closely. CHT under the
> plug?...we've been do'in it that way for years. It's accepted method.
>
> steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> AlbertaIV@aol.com
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: CHT Probe
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 4/17/2005 3:30:41 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> pwilson@climber.org writes:
>
>
> BTW, I think the sensors on the coolant pipe is a good way to go,but
> its not
> what Rotax recommends.
>
> Thanks Paul
>
>
> Paul,
> This is something I tried in order to be able to measure in/out
> water
> temps at the radiator. I still have the normal coolant temp probe
> installed.
> I've always heard it's basically a waste of time to install CHT on a
> water
> cooled 582. I simply used the probes as a temporary setup to get the
> above
> differential readings. However, it worked so well and I believe it
> gives maybe
> more useful information than it did when hooked to the plugs for CHT.
> I may
> keep it this way.
> I offer this disclaimer that I did not intend to suggest different
> hookup over what's recommended by Rotax. Now, I can't get sued.
>
> Don Smythe
> Classic IV w/ 582
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Realistic Speed |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles <wliles@bayou.com>
On the Model I the flapperons are the trim. If you cannot trim for
level flight with the flapperons they need adjusting. If they are
deployed, even a bit, and it sounds like they are, it will increase lift
and therefore increase induced drag. Check the tach and adjust the
flapperons. You should be able to fly hands off if the airplane is
properly rigged. You may also be able to use a prop with a bit more
pitch to improve cruise.
Jerry Liles
Graeme Toft wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" <msm@byterocky.net>
>
>Thanks for the comments Jerry. I suppose what triggered my initial email is
>the reports of speed achieved by similar models to my own. I fly with a
>group of aircraft and as you have rightly mentioned the low speed
>characteristics of the model 1 are great and Im certainly not complianing
>about this, but another 5 - 8 knots would allow me to keep up with the
>tribe. I have compared speed with a number of other aircraft and my airspeed
>indicator is reasonably accurate. The tacho is an area I havent investigated
>at length but I believe there is some error there. I may have some issues
>with the flapperons hanging a bit low on the trailing edge. This is being
>offset by using elevator to hold the nose up. Not a lot of pressure required
>but enough between flapperons down and elevators up to give some induced
>drag possibly. Any further comments would be appreciated.
>
>Cheers
>Graeme
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jerry Liles" <wliles@bayou.com>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Realistic Speed
>
>
>
>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles <wliles@bayou.com>
>>
>>Graeme
>>I think 65 kts is not too bad for a Model I. It actually isn't bad for
>>later versions with the 582. What you need to do is confirm the
>>accuracy of your ASI. Many homebuilts have an ASI that is useful as a
>>rate indicator but isn't otherwise terribly accurate, being terrifically
>>optimistic or pessimistic. I usually just ignore reports of airspeed
>>unless I know the speeds have been properly confirmed. You also need to
>>confirm the accuracy of your Tach. Many, if not most, Tachs used in
>>these airplanes are even less accurate, often being off by several
>>hundred rpm. The Westach on Tootie Mae reads 250 to 300 rpm high when
>>indicating 5800rpm. I use an optical tach to find prop rpm and have a
>>chart to convert to engine rpms and use that to determine cruise and max
>>rpms on the tach. So, as you can see, if your ASI reads low and your
>>tach reads high you won't see the speeds you have or get all the
>>performance you can. By the way, the Model I is not particularly
>>speedy, but it is a blast for short field and low and slow sight seeing
>>with the doors open. If it hasn't been built too heavy, almost nothing
>>else can touch it for STOL and slow flight. Finally a different prop
>>may well improve cruise speed at the expense of STOL performance.
>>
>>Jerry Liles
>>
>>Graeme Toft wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" <msm@byterocky.net>
>>>
>>>Hi guys, for some time I have read about the speeds that those of you with
>>>582's are getting from their early models and am wondering what I can do
>>>to my model 1 to achieve similar results. I am flat out getting 65 knots
>>>ground speed at 5800 rpm and have faired everything but the wheels. I'm
>>>not after miracles but is 75 knots achievable with some further tinkering
>>>and if so where do I begin
>>>
>>>Graeme
>>>
>>>
>>>-----------------------------------------------
>>>Scanned by Bayou Internet for all known viruses.
>>>http://www.bayou.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
Message 14
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
A friend bought a model 1 that had been idle for several months.
It has a Rotex 582 engine. It uses premix fuel.
On starting the engine, It is very rough at low RPM.
Smooths out about 3000 RPM.
I am guessing that one of the jets in the idle circut is plugged.
Any suggestions?
What is the idle RPM supposed to be on this engine?
Floran H.
Floran,
my nearly new 582 mostly does not idle smoothly below 3,000RPM.
It is set for 2,000 and will run there but mostly rough. It does vary on
atmospheric conditions and temperature of air and motor. I haven't tried but
I think it was Bert Flood our Rotax agent in Australia that said you can set
up the idle circuit to smooth it out in the 2 to 3,000 range but it is a
leaner mixture [ idle only ] and is harder to start so they don't do it.
Yes I do agree it can be a little frustrating at times but it is no real
problem. It's because you have a fairly light flywheel at the back of the
motor and a large heavy propeller on the front connected through a gearbox
to the motor with inherant backlash.
I did improve this aspect slightly by using Castrol SAF-XA GL6 rated
synthetic oil in the gearbox. I also got the motor to run smoother and start
easier using NGK BR8EIX plugs and non resistor caps. These plugs are the
same heat range with built in resistors hence you need non resistor caps.
They are fine point iridium and fire better and foul less and last longer.
They also have a built in booster gap. This allows the voltage to build up
higher before firing which also helps. These plugs are often used in 582's
when they are run inverted. Typically they are used in Ferrari and Porsche.
Graeme Toft of list just recently flew my plane and was impressed and has
now fitted these plugs in his 582 with good results.
If you fit the centrifugal clutch this will disconnect below about 2,300
and the motor will run smooth probably right down to 1,000. However I think
you will find you really have no problems or anything to worry about. Just
set it minimum 3,000 on the throttle at any time. The worst is it may be a
tiny little bit fast taxi-ing on smooth tarmac especially down hill but
that's about it. I guess this depends on the prop and gearing a little so
I'll state I have a 3 blade ground adjustable Ivo prop and a 3 to 1 "E" box.
Hope this helps,
Rex.
rexjan@bigpond.com
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: [Please Read] Matronics Email Server Upgrade Complete! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: John King <kingjohne@adelphia.net>
Matt,
You run a good ship. All of us on the Kitfox List owe both you and Don
Pearsell and his staff a well earned thank you for your dedicated service.
Don, please forgive me for forgetting the name of your dedicated other
half. At my age names are hard to remember if you do not use them
frequently. It will eventually come to me. Forgive me, I humbly apologize.
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
Matt Dralle wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
>
>
>9:24pm PDT 4/17/2005
>
>Dear Listers,
>
>The upgrade of the Matronics Email Server can be considered complete at
>this time. All known issues related to the upgrade process have been
>resolved and email services are running normal. The Nightly Digest
>processing has not yet been tested and will wait for tonight's update.
>
>If you encounter any odd behavior with respect to the Matronics Email
>Server over the next few days, please contact me via email at
>dralle@matronics.com or if that fails try dralle@speakeasy.net.
>
>Thanks to everyone for being patient through this arduous process of a
>major system upgrade!
>
>Matt Dralle
>Email List Administrator
>
>
>At 12:37 PM 4/16/2005 Saturday, Matt Dralle wrote:
>
>
>
>>Dear Listers,
>>
>>I will be upgrading the Matronics Email Server this weekend. This
>>includes some hardware improvements - more memory, faster, more capable
>>processors - as well as a complete operating system upgrade from
>>scratch. I hope to have both the old system and the new system running at
>>the same time to minimize the actual impact of the upgrade.
>>
>>Hopefully there will be little actual downtime during the transition, but
>>a few posts may get lost in the shuffle. If you don't see your post show
>>up on the List in the normal amount of time (plus a little bit), then
>>please just try posting it again.
>>
>>Upgrading the Matronics Email Server operating system (from Redhat Linux
>>7.2 to Redhat Linux WS 4) is a sizeable undertaking and requires a great
>>deal of work to port all of the utilities, programs, and scripts over to
>>the new system. As I've already mentioned, both the old and new systems
>>will be on line at the same time, so interruption should be held to an
>>absolute minimal. You might see a couple of odd test messages during the
>>cut-over or other odd messages; please just ignore them.
>>
>>I have setup a new System Status Web Page that I will use to update List
>>Members on the current status of the email and web systems. Please refer
>>to it as often as you like:
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/SystemStatus/
>>
>>
>>Thank you for your continued support of the List Services at
>>Matronics! Its your yearly Contributions that make these major upgrades
>>possible!
>>
>>Best regards,
>>
>>Matt Dralle
>>Matronics Email List Administrator
>>
>>
>
>
>Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
>925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
>http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Realistic Speed |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker" <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
Hi Graeme
Did you say that your top rpm is 5800 rpm? I thought the 582 redlined at
6800?
Jim Shumaker
Message 17
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins" <cliffh@outdrs.net>
I ran the engine again today and it ran much smoother.
I think there was some oil congealed in one of the jets and it took a while
to get it disolved
Floran H
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Rough idle
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
>
> A friend bought a model 1 that had been idle for several months.
> It has a Rotex 582 engine. It uses premix fuel.
> On starting the engine, It is very rough at low RPM.
> Smooths out about 3000 RPM.
> I am guessing that one of the jets in the idle circut is plugged.
> Any suggestions?
> What is the idle RPM supposed to be on this engine?
> Floran H.
>
> Floran,
> my nearly new 582 mostly does not idle smoothly below 3,000RPM.
> It is set for 2,000 and will run there but mostly rough. It does vary on
> atmospheric conditions and temperature of air and motor. I haven't tried
> but
> I think it was Bert Flood our Rotax agent in Australia that said you can
> set
> up the idle circuit to smooth it out in the 2 to 3,000 range but it is a
> leaner mixture [ idle only ] and is harder to start so they don't do it.
> Yes I do agree it can be a little frustrating at times but it is no real
> problem. It's because you have a fairly light flywheel at the back of the
> motor and a large heavy propeller on the front connected through a gearbox
> to the motor with inherant backlash.
> I did improve this aspect slightly by using Castrol SAF-XA GL6 rated
> synthetic oil in the gearbox. I also got the motor to run smoother and
> start
> easier using NGK BR8EIX plugs and non resistor caps. These plugs are the
> same heat range with built in resistors hence you need non resistor caps.
> They are fine point iridium and fire better and foul less and last longer.
> They also have a built in booster gap. This allows the voltage to build up
> higher before firing which also helps. These plugs are often used in 582's
> when they are run inverted. Typically they are used in Ferrari and
> Porsche.
> Graeme Toft of list just recently flew my plane and was impressed and has
> now fitted these plugs in his 582 with good results.
> If you fit the centrifugal clutch this will disconnect below about 2,300
> and the motor will run smooth probably right down to 1,000. However I
> think
> you will find you really have no problems or anything to worry about. Just
> set it minimum 3,000 on the throttle at any time. The worst is it may be a
> tiny little bit fast taxi-ing on smooth tarmac especially down hill but
> that's about it. I guess this depends on the prop and gearing a little so
> I'll state I have a 3 blade ground adjustable Ivo prop and a 3 to 1 "E"
> box.
> Hope this helps,
> Rex.
> rexjan@bigpond.com
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Props ... the real story |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tim Kaser <kaser@cableone.net>
Since I and my partner purchased a wounded Series IV Kitfox last fall
(that is just now coming back to life) I have been gleaning propeller
information from any source that would liberate it. This Kitfox list
being one of those listened to sources. To date my database contains
mostly relative stuff like "the prop performed just like I wanted it to"
or "this prop will improve your climb and cruise." Some testimonials
can be found at a few of the propeller manufacturers web sites that tout
its virtues, have little or no real comparison to any specific
propeller. Yea or Nay. Having said this, I realize that each Kitfox is
somewhat unique and that numbers will vary.
With that in mind, I've combed the internet till I'm just all Googled
out trying to find any real hard (greater than the above) numbers that
might provide me with some enhanced evidence that could clarify the
selection of a propeller for N316R. So, I'm making my splash on this
list to see what ripples return. Hope I've said enough cause there's
no more air left in this wind bag.
I would most certainly entertain any and all comments from anyone that
can provide glimmers of "the real story"
Note: A beautiful Rotax 912ul adorns the nose of N316R and still awaits
its blades.
Thank You,
Tim Kaser
N316R
KF IV-1200
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Realistic Speed |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" <msm@byterocky.net>
No Jim, I'm cruising at 5800 and pulling 6200 when flat out
Graeme
----- Original Message -----
From: "jimshumaker" <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Realistic Speed
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker"
> <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Hi Graeme
>
> Did you say that your top rpm is 5800 rpm? I thought the 582 redlined at
> 6800?
>
> Jim Shumaker
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Realistic Speed |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" <msm@byterocky.net>
Thanks Jerry, any idea on where the adjustment point is to correct the
flapperons. I only have the assembly manual and as it has been photo copied
over and over again the pictures are just a black mess.
Graeme
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Liles" <wliles@bayou.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Realistic Speed
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles <wliles@bayou.com>
>
> On the Model I the flapperons are the trim. If you cannot trim for
> level flight with the flapperons they need adjusting. If they are
> deployed, even a bit, and it sounds like they are, it will increase lift
> and therefore increase induced drag. Check the tach and adjust the
> flapperons. You should be able to fly hands off if the airplane is
> properly rigged. You may also be able to use a prop with a bit more
> pitch to improve cruise.
>
> Jerry Liles
>
> Graeme Toft wrote:
>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" <msm@byterocky.net>
>>
>>Thanks for the comments Jerry. I suppose what triggered my initial email
>>is
>>the reports of speed achieved by similar models to my own. I fly with a
>>group of aircraft and as you have rightly mentioned the low speed
>>characteristics of the model 1 are great and Im certainly not complianing
>>about this, but another 5 - 8 knots would allow me to keep up with the
>>tribe. I have compared speed with a number of other aircraft and my
>>airspeed
>>indicator is reasonably accurate. The tacho is an area I havent
>>investigated
>>at length but I believe there is some error there. I may have some issues
>>with the flapperons hanging a bit low on the trailing edge. This is being
>>offset by using elevator to hold the nose up. Not a lot of pressure
>>required
>>but enough between flapperons down and elevators up to give some induced
>>drag possibly. Any further comments would be appreciated.
>>
>>Cheers
>>Graeme
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Jerry Liles" <wliles@bayou.com>
>>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Realistic Speed
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles <wliles@bayou.com>
>>>
>>>Graeme
>>>I think 65 kts is not too bad for a Model I. It actually isn't bad for
>>>later versions with the 582. What you need to do is confirm the
>>>accuracy of your ASI. Many homebuilts have an ASI that is useful as a
>>>rate indicator but isn't otherwise terribly accurate, being terrifically
>>>optimistic or pessimistic. I usually just ignore reports of airspeed
>>>unless I know the speeds have been properly confirmed. You also need to
>>>confirm the accuracy of your Tach. Many, if not most, Tachs used in
>>>these airplanes are even less accurate, often being off by several
>>>hundred rpm. The Westach on Tootie Mae reads 250 to 300 rpm high when
>>>indicating 5800rpm. I use an optical tach to find prop rpm and have a
>>>chart to convert to engine rpms and use that to determine cruise and max
>>>rpms on the tach. So, as you can see, if your ASI reads low and your
>>>tach reads high you won't see the speeds you have or get all the
>>>performance you can. By the way, the Model I is not particularly
>>>speedy, but it is a blast for short field and low and slow sight seeing
>>>with the doors open. If it hasn't been built too heavy, almost nothing
>>>else can touch it for STOL and slow flight. Finally a different prop
>>>may well improve cruise speed at the expense of STOL performance.
>>>
>>>Jerry Liles
>>>
>>>Graeme Toft wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" <msm@byterocky.net>
>>>>
>>>>Hi guys, for some time I have read about the speeds that those of you
>>>>with
>>>>582's are getting from their early models and am wondering what I can do
>>>>to my model 1 to achieve similar results. I am flat out getting 65 knots
>>>>ground speed at 5800 rpm and have faired everything but the wheels. I'm
>>>>not after miracles but is 75 knots achievable with some further
>>>>tinkering
>>>>and if so where do I begin
>>>>
>>>>Graeme
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-----------------------------------------------
>>>>Scanned by Bayou Internet for all known viruses.
>>>>http://www.bayou.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 21
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "gary" <FlyinK@Efortress.com>
> is there an RK400 and an RC400 clutch? do these only work with C-boxes
> and not E-boxes?
>
> Thanks,
> Gary
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Savener" <david_savener@msn.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 2:58 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 missing
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David Savener"
>> <david_savener@msn.com>
>>
>> I am running the RC400 clutch. I still idle at 2000 rpm but wouldn't
>> have to. It will idle much slower. That clutch is great. Now that I
>> have one I won't go back.
>>
>> My son has a Seawing with a pusher 582 and a clutch.(It needs the clutch
>> for water taxiing). Last week we removed his gear box and checked the
>> clutch after 100 hours of use. It looks just like it did when we
>> installed it. We couldn't see any wear on the shoes. NO carbon.
>> Pistons and cylinders looked clean. He has been running it in south
>> Texas in the salt water and it runs very well. He mixes oil and gas.
>>
>> Dave S
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Guy Buchanan<mailto:bnn@nethere.com>
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 10:20 AM
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 missing
>>
>>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan
>> <bnn@nethere.com<mailto:bnn@nethere.com>>
>>
>> At 09:35 AM 4/17/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>>
>> ...
>>
>> >two (2) thousand is the minumum rpm DO NOT IDLE UNDER THAT SPEED .
>>
>> ...
>>
>> >John Perry
>>
>> Does this advice apply to 582's with the RC400 clutch? I was told they
>> can
>> idle as low as you want, even 1000 rpm.
>>
>>
>> Guy Buchanan
>> K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
>>
>> Do not archive
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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