Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:20 AM - Re: Loose Fuel tank fabric (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
2. 03:20 AM - Loose Fuel tank fabric (Fox5flyer)
3. 03:33 AM - Re: Loose Fuel tank fabric (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
4. 03:50 AM - Re: Loose Fuel tank fabric (Fox5flyer)
5. 06:34 AM - Re: Loose Fuel tank fabric (Lowell Fitt)
6. 07:18 AM - Re: Another 5 coming alive. (Flybradair@cs.com)
7. 07:50 AM - Re: Tank covering (Paul)
8. 09:15 AM - Re: Re: Tank covering (flier)
9. 09:16 AM - Re: Another 5 coming alive. (jdmcbean)
10. 02:37 PM - Re: Re: Tank covering (Lowell Fitt)
11. 02:49 PM - Re: Re: Tank covering (joakley@ida.net)
12. 04:54 PM - Re: Loose Fuel tank fabric (dwight purdy)
13. 06:27 PM - Re: Re: Tank covering (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
14. 06:58 PM - Re: Re: Tank covering (Rick)
15. 07:14 PM - ()
16. 07:54 PM - Re: (John Anderson)
17. 08:03 PM - Re: Re: Tank covering (Paul)
18. 08:36 PM - Re: Re: (Don Pearsall)
19. 09:17 PM - Re: Re: (John Anderson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Loose Fuel tank fabric |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 4/20/2005 8:22:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,
morid@northland.lib.mi.us writes:
Good question Don. As I recall I went according to Skystar instructions by
painting several coats of poly brush on the tank then laying the fabric with
initial tightening to about 250 degrees, paint on more poly brush to bond
the fabric to the tank, then tighten up the rest of the wing without further
Deke,
That sounds very similar to what I did (recommended by Poly Fiber) with
one exception, I "think" I tightened the entire wing prior to applying the
second coat of Brush on the tank and being careful not to apply heat to the
tank top until last. This might have resulted in getting the fabric tighter.
Once you do the MEK wash down, the fabric will stick a bit with the MEK. I
think this is fairly a common problem since it's been discussed several times
before. Somewhere, there should be a "MOST" correct way to do this?
Don Smythe
Classic IV w/ 582
Message 2
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| Subject: | Loose Fuel tank fabric |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
In my PolyFiber video it shows an airplane in flight with loose fabric that
is billowing up like big bubbles on the tops of the wings which I'm sure is
a worst case scenario. In my case the oat was in the mid 40s on departure
and at 4.5msl cruise it was in mid 50s which I don't consider cold. Like
you, I hesitate with any sort of injecting of glue because it wouldn't be an
even flow and would probably make things worse, or even if it worked I doubt
it would look very good.
Deke
>
> I have experienced the same problem. I thought about injecting glue under
> the fabric but was fearful it would bubble the paint. Only happens when it
> real cold.
>
> Rick N656T
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Loose Fuel tank fabric |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 4/21/2005 6:21:46 AM Eastern Standard Time,
morid@northland.lib.mi.us writes:
you, I hesitate with any sort of injecting of glue because it wouldn't be an
even flow and would probably make things worse, or even if it worked I doubt
it would look very good.
Deke
Deke,
Here's their web site with phone number. Take a look at their method of
gluing fabric over plywood. It is similar to what we did. Let us know if
Poly Fiber sees this as a safety problem and how they would recommend a fix or
not.
_http://www.polyfiber.com/_ (http://www.polyfiber.com/)
Don Smythe
Classic IV w/ 582
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Loose Fuel tank fabric |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Wilco Don. Thanks.
Deke
>
> you, I hesitate with any sort of injecting of glue because it wouldn't be
an
> even flow and would probably make things worse, or even if it worked I
doubt
> it would look very good.
> Deke
>
>
> Deke,
> Here's their web site with phone number. Take a look at their method
of
> gluing fabric over plywood. It is similar to what we did. Let us know
if
> Poly Fiber sees this as a safety problem and how they would recommend a
fix or
> not.
>
>
> _http://www.polyfiber.com/_ (http://www.polyfiber.com/)
> Don Smythe
> Classic IV w/ 582
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Loose Fuel tank fabric |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
I enjected polytak under the fabric at the Y of the liftstrut fairing and it
did indeed bubble the paint. I was finished in Aerothane and it softened
all the underlying layers giving a rather unpleasant look in a small area.
Who knows what it would do on the wing.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Loose Fuel tank fabric
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
>
> I have experienced the same problem. I thought about injecting glue under
> the fabric but was fearful it would bubble the paint. Only happens when it
> real cold.
>
> Rick N656T
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chenoweth
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Loose Fuel tank fabric
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
>
> Deke,
> What I've read (in the PolyFiber manual, snip...............
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Another 5 coming alive. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Flybradair@cs.com
I am looking forward to providing the numbers Don! As soon as I can get hold
of JR I will find out what
he is up to and let you know.
Ed,
Sensenech W74EM-2-54. Basically it has been cut down from 74 to 72 inches
with a 54 pitch.
Brad Martin
Wichita
N232WB
>
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ed Akerstrom" <e.akerstrom@sbcglobal.net>
>
>
>
> Brad,
>
> Congratulations!
>
> Could you please tell me the model of Sensenich that you have?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Ed Akerstrom
>
>
> Brad wrote:
>
> Paperwork is all done----Aircraft is done-----Just About There!
>
>
> Brad Martin
> Wichita
> N232WB
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | RE: Tank covering |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Paul <pwilson@climber.org>
Some time in the past there was a discussion on this subject. For covering as
opposed to discussion of a bonded fabric coming loose. At that time I thought
the consensus was to use polyester batting over the tank to prevent the fabric
from being bonded.
Has any one done this? What was the reason for not bonding the fabric?
Thanks, Paul
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Tank covering |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
I agree with you Paul. I don't think I understand
the problem that well. If the tank wasn't there,
there would only be a rib holding the fabric anyway.
Why is there a feeling something different needs to
be done over the tank? During shrinking, which
occurs before polybrush and the fabric adhering to
the tank, as long as the fabric was shrunk to 300
deg, there should be no need to adhere the fabric to
the tank other than what happens when the brushcoat
of polybrush is applied. The iron needs to be passed
a little more slowly over the tank but the tank is
fiberglass which is a good insulator so it doesn't
sink much heat at all.
Clearly, if the fabric was glued to the top of the
tank BEFORE shrinking, or shrunk at less than 300
deg, then there's probably going to be some issue
with less than desired tautness if it comes unglued.
Is that the concern?
--- Original Message ---
From: Paul <pwilson@climber.org>
Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: Tank covering
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Paul
<pwilson@climber.org>
>
> Some time in the past there was a discussion on
this subject. For covering as opposed to discussion
of a bonded fabric coming loose. At that time I
thought the consensus was to use polyester batting
over the tank to prevent the fabric from being bonded.
> Has any one done this? What was the reason for not
bonding the fabric?
>
> Thanks, Paul
>
>
>_-
======================================================
======
browse
Subscriptions page,
FAQ,
List
>_-
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>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Another 5 coming alive. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Congrats Brad !!! It's a great feeling !
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Tank covering |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Paul, This is exactly what Polyfiber - then Stits - recmmended to me. I
chose not to, as I found that the batting wicked out the polybrush leaving a
pretty dry fabric surface. I didn't carry it to the second coat, which
might have worked, though.
I did add a bit of extra heat while shrinking because of the heat sink
properties of the tank top. I have inquired from time to time about any
ballooning of the fabric while in flight from the perspective of close by
observers in other aircraft and have been advised, they don't see
ballooning.
One thought in the past discussions that hasn't been mentioned is to bond a
"capstrip" mid tank and bond to that as to the other capstrips. Impossible
to riblace, buyt I think if I were to ever recover, that is the way I would
go.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul" <pwilson@climber.org>
Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: Tank covering
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Paul <pwilson@climber.org>
>
> Some time in the past there was a discussion on this subject. For covering
> as opposed to discussion of a bonded fabric coming loose. At that time I
> thought the consensus was to use polyester batting over the tank to
> prevent the fabric from being bonded.
> Has any one done this? What was the reason for not bonding the fabric?
>
> Thanks, Paul
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Tank covering |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: joakley@ida.net
>Lowell,
I did add a capstrip to my tank, is looks great but the fabric still stuck
to the tank because of the sag in between the ribs. I have had no
problems.
John Oakley
>
> One thought in the past discussions that hasn't been mentioned is to bond
> a
> "capstrip" mid tank and bond to that as to the other capstrips.
> Impossible
> to riblace, buyt I think if I were to ever recover, that is the way I
> would
> go.
>
> Lowell
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Loose Fuel tank fabric |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: dwight purdy <dpurdy@comteck.com>
My model ll is silver on top of wings. When I take it out in the sun from
the hanger the fabric sags for a minute or two till the temp normalizes. Do
not remember if it does it in hot weather but in cold for sure.
I landed an Ercoupe in Florida on a hot day and as I was getting out of
the plane I noticed the leading edge looked like it had been beat with a
sledge hammer. The wings were completely metalized. It freaked me out till
it went away. I am sure that did not happened till on the ground or would
have messed with the lift on finale.
Dwight
At 01:57 PM 4/20/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
>
>I'd suspect that the fabric in the small area behind
>the tank didn't shrink to the max during covering.
>The fabric adheres to the tanks during the first
>brush coat of Polybrush anyway unless you somehow
>keep the fabric up off the tank top during covering
>so I don't think that's the cause.
>
>I recovered one of my wings four yrs ago during the
>summertime. When it's above 50F, my leading edge is
>smooth as glass. When it gets colder, I notice some
>random small bubbles in the LE finish tape that
>apparently didn't get fully ironed down. They go
>away when it's warm.
>
>I'd suspect the suction created on the upper wing
>surface likely stretched the fabric when it was cold
>then it recovered when it got warm. Personally, I
>wouldn't worry about it.
>
>Regards,
>
>Ted
>
>
>--- Original Message ---
>From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Loose Fuel tank fabric
>
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt"
><lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
> >
> >Deke, I notice this on my Mod IV on cold mornings
>especially when it is out
> >overnight. I get a little puckering between the
>fuel filler neck and the
> >second rib. When building - it seems a long time
>ago - it was advised not
> >to glue the fabric to the tank tops and I did some
>real tinkering to avoid
> >it. The argument was that the tank wouldn't touch
>the fabric uniformly and
> >where it did touch it would leave a line at the edge
>of contact so in the
> >finish paint there would be a marble effect ( I had
>seen it on other
> >Kitfoxes). I don't have the marble effect, but I do
>have the cold weather
> >pucker - so to speak.
> >
> >Lowell
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
> >To: "Kitfox List" <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: Kitfox-List: Loose Fuel tank fabric
> >
> >
> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer"
><morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
> >>
> >> After a recent cross country when parking the
>airplane I noticed what
> >> appeared to be loose fabric on the rear half of
>the left wing tank of my
> >> S5. Upon close inspection I found that it was
>indeed loose in an area
> >> about 12"X10". It was a cool morning flight in the
>low 40s [very nice I
> >> might add]. I parked the airplane in the hangar
>and when I returned about
> >> 4 hours later for a closer look the fabric was
>tight again and everything
> >> appeared fine. Assuming I wasn't hallucinating,
>something has happened
> >> here and I'm a little concerned that it will
>reoccur and probably get
> >> worse.
> >>
> >> I seem to recall some dialog on this subject, but
>can't remember what the
> >> best technique was for a permanent repair. I'm not
>real excited about
> >> having to remove the wing.
> >>
> >> Anybody have any input on this?
> >>
> >> The airplane has about 300 hours over 4 years and
>is painted with Polytone
> >> Tennessee Red, if that matters.
> >>
> >> Deke
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >_-
>======================================================
>======
>browse
>Subscriptions page,
>FAQ,
>List
> >_-
>======================================================
>======
> >
> >
>
>
>--
--
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Tank covering |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 4/21/2005 12:18:06 PM Eastern Standard Time,
FLIER@sbcglobal.net writes:
the problem that well. If the tank wasn't there,
there would only be a rib holding the fabric anyway.
Why is there a feeling something different needs to
This is just a guess or thought but, if you had no tank, there would be a
rib between #1 and #3 as you suggest. Without that rib you would have a large
distance with no support of the fabric. That distance might be too great
and allow ballooning.. On the other hand, Poly Fiber doesn't recommend gluing
to the ribs. Then again, maybe it's the prop wash that is causing the
problem on the tank tops. Sorry, I'm confusing myself. Poly Fiber does have
some
installation criteria concerning the prop wash area. I believe it's the rib
lace spacing.
Don Smythe
Classic IV w/ 582
Message 14
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| Subject: | RE: Tank covering |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
Would it be feasible to pop rivet some cap strip across the tank area. Maybe
1/8 thick aluminum strips. Rivets dipped in proseal or something? If you
fly high the outside temps can easily get in the low 30s even on a warm down
there days.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
AlbertaIV@aol.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RE: Tank covering
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 4/21/2005 12:18:06 PM Eastern Standard Time,
FLIER@sbcglobal.net writes:
the problem that well. If the tank wasn't there,
there would only be a rib holding the fabric anyway.
Why is there a feeling something different needs to
This is just a guess or thought but, if you had no tank, there would be a
rib between #1 and #3 as you suggest. Without that rib you would have a
large
distance with no support of the fabric. That distance might be too great
and allow ballooning.. On the other hand, Poly Fiber doesn't recommend
gluing
to the ribs. Then again, maybe it's the prop wash that is causing the
problem on the tank tops. Sorry, I'm confusing myself. Poly Fiber does
have some
installation criteria concerning the prop wash area. I believe it's the
rib
lace spacing.
Don Smythe
Classic IV w/ 582
Message 15
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: <gjglh@cebridge.net>
test
Message 16
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Test, anyone getting my messages too as I don't see them apear??
From: <gjglh@cebridge.net>
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: <gjglh@cebridge.net>
test
Looking for love? Check out XtraMSN Personals
http://xtramsn.match.com/match/mt.cfm?pg=channel&tcid=200731
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Tank covering |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Paul <pwilson@climber.org>
Lowell,
Did you leave the batting under the fabric or did you remove it?
Thanks, Paul
=========
At 2:35 PM -0700 4/21/05, Lowell Fitt wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>
>Paul, This is exactly what Polyfiber - then Stits - recmmended to me. I
>chose not to, as I found that the batting wicked out the polybrush leaving a
>pretty dry fabric surface. I didn't carry it to the second coat, which
>might have worked, though.
>
>I did add a bit of extra heat while shrinking because of the heat sink
>properties of the tank top. I have inquired from time to time about any
>ballooning of the fabric while in flight from the perspective of close by
>observers in other aircraft and have been advised, they don't see
>ballooning.
>
>One thought in the past discussions that hasn't been mentioned is to bond a
>"capstrip" mid tank and bond to that as to the other capstrips. Impossible
>to riblace, buyt I think if I were to ever recover, that is the way I would
>go.
>
>Lowell
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Paul" <pwilson@climber.org>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: Tank covering
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Paul <pwilson@climber.org>
>>
>> Some time in the past there was a discussion on this subject. For covering
>> as opposed to discussion of a bonded fabric coming loose. At that time I
>> thought the consensus was to use polyester batting over the tank to
>> prevent the fabric from being bonded.
>> Has any one done this? What was the reason for not bonding the fabric?
>>
>> Thanks, Paul
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Message 18
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
Hello John, Loud and clear on the KF List. I am also sending this to your
email address. So, if you do not get two of my replies, check your email
program settings and see if your KF list messages are getting lost. This
usually happens when the email program sends the email to another folder
where you do not look for it, or deletes it.
Don Pearsall
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Anderson
Subject: Kitfox-List: RE:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
<janderson412@hotmail.com>
Test, anyone getting my messages too as I don't see them apear??
From: <gjglh@cebridge.net>
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: <gjglh@cebridge.net>
test
Looking for love? Check out XtraMSN Personals
http://xtramsn.match.com/match/mt.cfm?pg=channel&tcid=200731
Message 19
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Thanks Don, got it via the list too. ~j~
From: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: RE:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
Hello John, Loud and clear on the KF List. I am also sending this to your
email address. So, if you do not get two of my replies, check your email
program settings and see if your KF list messages are getting lost. This
usually happens when the email program sends the email to another folder
where you do not look for it, or deletes it.
Don Pearsall
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Anderson
Subject: Kitfox-List: RE:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
<janderson412@hotmail.com>
Test, anyone getting my messages too as I don't see them apear??
From: <gjglh@cebridge.net>
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: <gjglh@cebridge.net>
test
Become a fitness fanatic @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/health
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