Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:00 AM - Re: Re: Tank covering (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
2. 05:43 AM - ()
3. 07:08 AM - Re: Re: Tank covering (Lowell Fitt)
4. 07:37 AM - Re: Props ... the real story (Raystuff7@aol.com)
5. 07:38 AM - Re: Re: Tank covering (Paul Seehafer)
6. 08:13 AM - Re: Re: Tank covering (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
7. 08:43 AM - Re: Re: Tank covering (Fox5flyer)
8. 08:57 AM - Model V/VI successful groundloop? (Harris, Robert)
9. 09:19 AM - Re: Model V/VI successful groundloop? (Steve Cooper)
10. 09:39 AM - Model V/VI successful groundloop? (Harris, Robert)
11. 11:42 AM - Re: Model V/VI successful groundloop? (Steve Cooper)
12. 12:40 PM - Re: Re: Tank covering (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
13. 01:20 PM - Re: Model V/VI successful groundloop? (Glenn Horne)
14. 01:54 PM - Re: Re: Tank covering (John Anderson)
15. 02:02 PM - Five Alive/CG Confusion (Tinne maha)
16. 03:59 PM - Re: Re: Tank covering (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
17. 04:14 PM - Re: Another 5 coming alive. (Ed Akerstrom)
18. 07:22 PM - Re: Model V/VI successful groundloop? (Bruce Harrington)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Tank covering |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 4/21/2005 10:00:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,
turboflyer@comcast.net writes:
Would it be feasible to pop rivet some cap strip across the tank area. Maybe
1/8 thick aluminum strips. Rivets dipped in proseal or something? If you
It seems that I remember seeing a/some certified fabric aircarft that are
alum covered over the wing tank area with fabric over the remaining wing. If
our problem was wide spread enough and considered a safety issue, I'd consider
covering the top tank portion of the wing with alum or sheet fiberglass.
For some strange reason (not yet fully determined) our fabric covered wings
tend to bunch up on the tanks. Seems that some do and some don't and It's not
really relative to whether the fabric was glued or not or, how it was glued.
Maybe we have a basic minor/major design fault in trying to put fabric in
that particular location.
Don Smythe
Classic IV w/ 582
Message 2
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: <gjglh@cebridge.net>
test
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Tank covering |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Don, this brings up a thought. There has been discussion in the past
regarding the Kreem coming loose issue and some opining that the cause might
be the mold release on the inside of the tanks. Actually the tanks are
externally molded. Maybe one additional step before covering would be a
scuff sanding of the tank top to enhance adhesion.
In the Lancair I am helping build, before any bonding is begun, the
instructions call for scuff sanding of the fiberglass / carbon fiber parts
with 40 grit sandaper followed by a wipe down with acetone.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: <AlbertaIV@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RE: Tank covering
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 4/21/2005 10:00:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> turboflyer@comcast.net writes:
>
> Would it be feasible to pop rivet some cap strip across the tank area.
> Maybe
> 1/8 thick aluminum strips. Rivets dipped in proseal or something? If
> you
>
>
> It seems that I remember seeing a/some certified fabric aircarft that are
> alum covered over the wing tank area with fabric over the remaining wing.
> If
> our problem was wide spread enough and considered a safety issue, I'd
> consider
> covering the top tank portion of the wing with alum or sheet fiberglass.
> For some strange reason (not yet fully determined) our fabric covered
> wings
> tend to bunch up on the tanks. Seems that some do and some don't and
> It's not
> really relative to whether the fabric was glued or not or, how it was
> glued.
> Maybe we have a basic minor/major design fault in trying to put fabric in
> that particular location.
>
> Don Smythe
> Classic IV w/ 582
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Props ... the real story |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Raystuff7@aol.com
Tim,
You should get a lot of response to this question. Fortunately, you already
seem to realize most of it is opinion.
As you know, you will sacrifice either climb or speed depending on the pitch
compromise.
Therefore, the ideal arrangement is a variable pitch prop. I have a GSC (i
believe that is the name) variable pitch prop on my KF-6, and it looks good and
works good on the 912S Rotax.
We get great take off performance in flat pitch, then turn the vernier
control for cruise speed.
We flew back from Oshkosh to the Houston area in one day. About 1300 miled in
10 hours flying time.
Ray Ward
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Tank covering |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
Rick,
Why use rivets? Just glue the capstrip down with a good adhesive. Where's
it going to go anyhow? If glued to the top of the tank, and then glued to
the fabric, I don't see it going anywhere.
Just my two cents...
Paul Seehfer
Central Wisconsin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: RE: Tank covering
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
>
> Would it be feasible to pop rivet some cap strip across the tank area.
> Maybe
> 1/8 thick aluminum strips. Rivets dipped in proseal or something? If you
> fly high the outside temps can easily get in the low 30s even on a warm
> down
> there days.
>
> Rick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> AlbertaIV@aol.com
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RE: Tank covering
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 4/21/2005 12:18:06 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> FLIER@sbcglobal.net writes:
>
> the problem that well. If the tank wasn't there,
> there would only be a rib holding the fabric anyway.
> Why is there a feeling something different needs to
>
>
> This is just a guess or thought but, if you had no tank, there would be
> a
> rib between #1 and #3 as you suggest. Without that rib you would have a
> large
> distance with no support of the fabric. That distance might be too great
> and allow ballooning.. On the other hand, Poly Fiber doesn't recommend
> gluing
> to the ribs. Then again, maybe it's the prop wash that is causing the
> problem on the tank tops. Sorry, I'm confusing myself. Poly Fiber does
> have some
> installation criteria concerning the prop wash area. I believe it's the
> rib
> lace spacing.
>
> Don Smythe
> Classic IV w/ 582
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Tank covering |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
I seem to remember a couple of modified ribs included in the kit that were essentially
top and bottom cap strips joined by the ply web piece. The cap strips
were faired and attached to the tank ending about 1/3 forward of the aft edge
where the tank provided the airfoil.
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 4/21/2005 10:00:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> turboflyer@comcast.net writes:
>
> Would it be feasible to pop rivet some cap strip across the tank area. Maybe
> 1/8 thick aluminum strips. Rivets dipped in proseal or something? If you
>
>
> It seems that I remember seeing a/some certified fabric aircarft that are
> alum covered over the wing tank area with fabric over the remaining wing. If
> our problem was wide spread enough and considered a safety issue, I'd consider
> covering the top tank portion of the wing with alum or sheet fiberglass.
> For some strange reason (not yet fully determined) our fabric covered wings
> tend to bunch up on the tanks. Seems that some do and some don't and It's not
> really relative to whether the fabric was glued or not or, how it was glued.
> Maybe we have a basic minor/major design fault in trying to put fabric in
> that particular location.
>
> Don Smythe
> Classic IV w/ 582
>
>
>
>
>
>
I seem to remember a couple of modified ribs included in the kit that were essentially
top and bottom cap strips joined by the ply web piece. The cap strips
were faired and attached to the tank ending about 1/3 forward of the aft edge
where the tank provided the airfoil.
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 4/21/2005 10:00:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,
turboflyer@comcast.net writes:
Would it be feasible to pop rivet some cap strip across the tank area. Maybe
1/8 thick aluminum strips. Rivets dipped in proseal or something? If you
It seems that I remember seeing a/some certified fabric aircarft that are
alum covered over the wing tank area with fabric over the remaining wing. If
our problem was wide spread enough and considered a safety issue, I'd consider
covering the top tank portion of the wing with alum or sheet fiberglass.
For some strange reason (not yet fully determined) our fabric covered wings
tend to bunch up on the tan
ks. Seems that some do and some don't and It's not
really relative to whether the fabric was glued or not or, how it was glued.
Maybe we have a basic minor/major design fault in trying to put fabric in
that particular location.
Don Smythe
Classic IV w/ 582
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Tank covering |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
See below...
>There has been discussion in the past
> regarding the Kreem coming loose issue and some opining that the cause
might
> be the mold release on the inside of the tanks. Actually the tanks are
> externally molded. Maybe one additional step before covering would be a
> scuff sanding of the tank top to enhance adhesion.
Lowell, that's exactly what I did for the very reasons you stated above. As
I recall it was in the instructions too. I also gave it a good wash with
MEK prior to covering so I dunno. Maybe I did something wrong, but I
remember when I was in that stage that I thought there must be a better way.
I also recall dialog (about 4-5 years ago) on the list regarding this very
subject. The thin matting with full 350 degree shrinkage sounds to me to be
the best way and if I were to do it again, that's how it would be done. At
full shrinkage the fabric can't stretch. I still haven't had time to get
with PolyFiber yet, but still plan to. Just too busy and now my weekend is
here and I'm hitting the road. Can't fly because Michigan will be in the
middle of a big snow storm starting this afternoon sometime.
Deke
>
> In the Lancair I am helping build, before any bonding is begun, the
> instructions call for scuff sanding of the fiberglass / carbon fiber parts
> with 40 grit sandaper followed by a wipe down with acetone.
>
> Lowell
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <AlbertaIV@aol.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RE: Tank covering
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 4/21/2005 10:00:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > turboflyer@comcast.net writes:
> >
> > Would it be feasible to pop rivet some cap strip across the tank area.
> > Maybe
> > 1/8 thick aluminum strips. Rivets dipped in proseal or something? If
> > you
> >
> >
> > It seems that I remember seeing a/some certified fabric aircarft that
are
> > alum covered over the wing tank area with fabric over the remaining
wing.
> > If
> > our problem was wide spread enough and considered a safety issue, I'd
> > consider
> > covering the top tank portion of the wing with alum or sheet
fiberglass.
> > For some strange reason (not yet fully determined) our fabric covered
> > wings
> > tend to bunch up on the tanks. Seems that some do and some don't and
> > It's not
> > really relative to whether the fabric was glued or not or, how it was
> > glued.
> > Maybe we have a basic minor/major design fault in trying to put fabric
in
> > that particular location.
> >
> > Don Smythe
> > Classic IV w/ 582
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Model V/VI successful groundloop? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
Hi All,
Has anyone groundlooped a model V/VI without any damage to the plane?
Robert
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
kerrjohna@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RE: Tank covering
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
I seem to remember a couple of modified ribs included in the kit that were
essentially top and bottom cap strips joined by the ply web piece. The cap
strips were faired and attached to the tank ending about 1/3 forward of the
aft edge where the tank provided the airfoil.
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 4/21/2005 10:00:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> turboflyer@comcast.net writes:
>
> Would it be feasible to pop rivet some cap strip across the tank area.
Maybe
> 1/8 thick aluminum strips. Rivets dipped in proseal or something? If you
>
>
> It seems that I remember seeing a/some certified fabric aircarft that are
> alum covered over the wing tank area with fabric over the remaining wing.
If
> our problem was wide spread enough and considered a safety issue, I'd
consider
> covering the top tank portion of the wing with alum or sheet fiberglass.
> For some strange reason (not yet fully determined) our fabric covered
wings
> tend to bunch up on the tanks. Seems that some do and some don't and It's
not
> really relative to whether the fabric was glued or not or, how it was
glued.
> Maybe we have a basic minor/major design fault in trying to put fabric in
> that particular location.
>
> Don Smythe
> Classic IV w/ 582
>
>
>
>
>
>
I seem to remember a couple of modified ribs included in the kit that were
essentially top and bottom cap strips joined by the ply web piece. The cap
strips were faired and attached to the tank ending about 1/3 forward of the
aft edge where the tank provided the airfoil.
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 4/21/2005 10:00:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,
turboflyer@comcast.net writes:
Would it be feasible to pop rivet some cap strip across the tank area.
Maybe
1/8 thick aluminum strips. Rivets dipped in proseal or something? If you
It seems that I remember seeing a/some certified fabric aircarft that are
alum covered over the wing tank area with fabric over the remaining wing.
If
our problem was wide spread enough and considered a safety issue, I'd
consider
covering the top tank portion of the wing with alum or sheet fiberglass.
For some strange reason (not yet fully determined) our fabric covered wings
tend to bunch up on the tan
ks. Seems that some do and some don't and It's not
really relative to whether the fabric was glued or not or, how it was
glued.
Maybe we have a basic minor/major design fault in trying to put fabric in
that particular location.
Don Smythe
Classic IV w/ 582
Message 9
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| Subject: | Model V/VI successful groundloop? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
I've ground looped my Avid Mark IV without damage. Jabiru powered. It
occurred early in my tail wheel transition. I was on a dirt strip. Had I
been on asphalt I would not have been as lucky. As it was, the dirt
allowed the bird to slide sideways a bit.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Harris,
Robert
Subject: Kitfox-List: Model V/VI successful groundloop?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert"
<Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
Hi All,
Has anyone groundlooped a model V/VI without any damage to the plane?
Robert
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
kerrjohna@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RE: Tank covering
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
I seem to remember a couple of modified ribs included in the kit that
were
essentially top and bottom cap strips joined by the ply web piece. The
cap
strips were faired and attached to the tank ending about 1/3 forward of
the
aft edge where the tank provided the airfoil.
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 4/21/2005 10:00:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> turboflyer@comcast.net writes:
>
> Would it be feasible to pop rivet some cap strip across the tank area.
Maybe
> 1/8 thick aluminum strips. Rivets dipped in proseal or something? If
you
>
>
> It seems that I remember seeing a/some certified fabric aircarft that
are
> alum covered over the wing tank area with fabric over the remaining
wing.
If
> our problem was wide spread enough and considered a safety issue, I'd
consider
> covering the top tank portion of the wing with alum or sheet
fiberglass.
> For some strange reason (not yet fully determined) our fabric covered
wings
> tend to bunch up on the tanks. Seems that some do and some don't and
It's
not
> really relative to whether the fabric was glued or not or, how it was
glued.
> Maybe we have a basic minor/major design fault in trying to put fabric
in
> that particular location.
>
> Don Smythe
> Classic IV w/ 582
>
>
>
>
>
>
I seem to remember a couple of modified ribs included in the kit that
were
essentially top and bottom cap strips joined by the ply web piece. The
cap
strips were faired and attached to the tank ending about 1/3 forward of
the
aft edge where the tank provided the airfoil.
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 4/21/2005 10:00:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,
turboflyer@comcast.net writes:
Would it be feasible to pop rivet some cap strip across the tank area.
Maybe
1/8 thick aluminum strips. Rivets dipped in proseal or something? If
you
It seems that I remember seeing a/some certified fabric aircarft that
are
alum covered over the wing tank area with fabric over the remaining
wing.
If
our problem was wide spread enough and considered a safety issue, I'd
consider
covering the top tank portion of the wing with alum or sheet
fiberglass.
For some strange reason (not yet fully determined) our fabric covered
wings
tend to bunch up on the tan
ks. Seems that some do and some don't and It's not
really relative to whether the fabric was glued or not or, how it was
glued.
Maybe we have a basic minor/major design fault in trying to put fabric
in
that particular location.
Don Smythe
Classic IV w/ 582
Message 10
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|
| Subject: | Model V/VI successful groundloop? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
Hi all
Has anyone ground looped a model V/VI without any damage to the plane?
Is the Avid Mark IV like the Model IV Kitfox or model V Kitfox?
I've ground looped my Model II KF three different times and my wing tip
never touched the ground. It happened twice on pavement and once in the dirt
strip.
Robert
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Cooper
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Model V/VI successful groundloop?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
I've ground looped my Avid Mark IV without damage. Jabiru powered. It
occurred early in my tail wheel transition. I was on a dirt strip. Had I
been on asphalt I would not have been as lucky. As it was, the dirt
allowed the bird to slide sideways a bit.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Harris,
Robert
Subject: Kitfox-List: Model V/VI successful groundloop?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert"
<Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
Hi All,
Has anyone groundlooped a model V/VI without any damage to the plane?
Robert
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
kerrjohna@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RE: Tank covering
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
I seem to remember a couple of modified ribs included in the kit that
were
essentially top and bottom cap strips joined by the ply web piece. The
cap
strips were faired and attached to the tank ending about 1/3 forward of
the
aft edge where the tank provided the airfoil.
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 4/21/2005 10:00:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> turboflyer@comcast.net writes:
>
> Would it be feasible to pop rivet some cap strip across the tank area.
Maybe
> 1/8 thick aluminum strips. Rivets dipped in proseal or something? If
you
>
>
> It seems that I remember seeing a/some certified fabric aircarft that
are
> alum covered over the wing tank area with fabric over the remaining
wing.
If
> our problem was wide spread enough and considered a safety issue, I'd
consider
> covering the top tank portion of the wing with alum or sheet
fiberglass.
> For some strange reason (not yet fully determined) our fabric covered
wings
> tend to bunch up on the tanks. Seems that some do and some don't and
It's
not
> really relative to whether the fabric was glued or not or, how it was
glued.
> Maybe we have a basic minor/major design fault in trying to put fabric
in
> that particular location.
>
> Don Smythe
> Classic IV w/ 582
>
>
>
>
>
>
I seem to remember a couple of modified ribs included in the kit that
were
essentially top and bottom cap strips joined by the ply web piece. The
cap
strips were faired and attached to the tank ending about 1/3 forward of
the
aft edge where the tank provided the airfoil.
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 4/21/2005 10:00:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,
turboflyer@comcast.net writes:
Would it be feasible to pop rivet some cap strip across the tank area.
Maybe
1/8 thick aluminum strips. Rivets dipped in proseal or something? If
you
It seems that I remember seeing a/some certified fabric aircarft that
are
alum covered over the wing tank area with fabric over the remaining
wing.
If
our problem was wide spread enough and considered a safety issue, I'd
consider
covering the top tank portion of the wing with alum or sheet
fiberglass.
For some strange reason (not yet fully determined) our fabric covered
wings
tend to bunch up on the tan
ks. Seems that some do and some don't and It's not
really relative to whether the fabric was glued or not or, how it was
glued.
Maybe we have a basic minor/major design fault in trying to put fabric
in
that particular location.
Don Smythe
Classic IV w/ 582
Message 11
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| Subject: | Model V/VI successful groundloop? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
I guess it's closer to a model IV. I installed the big main gear legs
(14" wider than OEM) They really give the plane an ultra stable
platform. Probably why I didn't scuff a wing tip.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Harris,
Robert
Subject: Kitfox-List: Model V/VI successful groundloop?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert"
<Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
Hi all
Has anyone ground looped a model V/VI without any damage to the plane?
Is the Avid Mark IV like the Model IV Kitfox or model V Kitfox?
I've ground looped my Model II KF three different times and my wing tip
never touched the ground. It happened twice on pavement and once in the
dirt
strip.
Robert
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Cooper
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Model V/VI successful groundloop?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper"
<spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
I've ground looped my Avid Mark IV without damage. Jabiru powered. It
occurred early in my tail wheel transition. I was on a dirt strip. Had I
been on asphalt I would not have been as lucky. As it was, the dirt
allowed the bird to slide sideways a bit.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Harris,
Robert
Subject: Kitfox-List: Model V/VI successful groundloop?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert"
<Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
Hi All,
Has anyone groundlooped a model V/VI without any damage to the plane?
Robert
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
kerrjohna@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RE: Tank covering
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
I seem to remember a couple of modified ribs included in the kit that
were
essentially top and bottom cap strips joined by the ply web piece. The
cap
strips were faired and attached to the tank ending about 1/3 forward of
the
aft edge where the tank provided the airfoil.
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 4/21/2005 10:00:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> turboflyer@comcast.net writes:
>
> Would it be feasible to pop rivet some cap strip across the tank area.
Maybe
> 1/8 thick aluminum strips. Rivets dipped in proseal or something? If
you
>
>
> It seems that I remember seeing a/some certified fabric aircarft that
are
> alum covered over the wing tank area with fabric over the remaining
wing.
If
> our problem was wide spread enough and considered a safety issue, I'd
consider
> covering the top tank portion of the wing with alum or sheet
fiberglass.
> For some strange reason (not yet fully determined) our fabric covered
wings
> tend to bunch up on the tanks. Seems that some do and some don't and
It's
not
> really relative to whether the fabric was glued or not or, how it was
glued.
> Maybe we have a basic minor/major design fault in trying to put fabric
in
> that particular location.
>
> Don Smythe
> Classic IV w/ 582
>
>
>
>
>
>
I seem to remember a couple of modified ribs included in the kit that
were
essentially top and bottom cap strips joined by the ply web piece. The
cap
strips were faired and attached to the tank ending about 1/3 forward of
the
aft edge where the tank provided the airfoil.
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 4/21/2005 10:00:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,
turboflyer@comcast.net writes:
Would it be feasible to pop rivet some cap strip across the tank area.
Maybe
1/8 thick aluminum strips. Rivets dipped in proseal or something? If
you
It seems that I remember seeing a/some certified fabric aircarft that
are
alum covered over the wing tank area with fabric over the remaining
wing.
If
our problem was wide spread enough and considered a safety issue, I'd
consider
covering the top tank portion of the wing with alum or sheet
fiberglass.
For some strange reason (not yet fully determined) our fabric covered
wings
tend to bunch up on the tan
ks. Seems that some do and some don't and It's not
really relative to whether the fabric was glued or not or, how it was
glued.
Maybe we have a basic minor/major design fault in trying to put fabric
in
that particular location.
Don Smythe
Classic IV w/ 582
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Tank covering |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 4/22/2005 10:09:11 AM Eastern Standard Time,
lcfitt@sbcglobal.net writes:
Don, this brings up a thought. There has been discussion in the past
regarding the Kreem coming loose issue and some opining that the cause might
be the mold release on the inside of the tanks. Actually the tanks are
externally molded. Maybe one additional step before covering would be a
scuff sanding of the tank top to enhance adhesion.
Well, I don't know but, I kinda did the opposite. I applied a thin coat of
West Systems epoxy to the tank top (before covering) to fill the thousands of
little pores left by the fiberglass cloth. I then sanded it before applying
the Poly Brush. Mine is sticking well except (As I said before) around the
slightly raised area created by the recessed filler caps. There, I have a
couple 2" bubbles.
Don Smythe
Classic IV w/ 582
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Model V/VI successful groundloop? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Glenn Horne" <glennflys@verizon.net>
Hi Guys,
You all know how to scare someone.
Haven't flown my Model II yet and you guys are ground
looping yours. Will fly soon
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Model V/VI successful groundloop?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert"
> <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
>
> Hi all
> Has anyone ground looped a model V/VI without any damage to the plane?
>
>
> Is the Avid Mark IV like the Model IV Kitfox or model V Kitfox?
>
> I've ground looped my Model II KF three different times and my wing tip
> never touched the ground. It happened twice on pavement and once in the
> dirt
> strip.
>
> Robert
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Cooper
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Model V/VI successful groundloop?
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
>
> I've ground looped my Avid Mark IV without damage. Jabiru powered. It
> occurred early in my tail wheel transition. I was on a dirt strip. Had I
> been on asphalt I would not have been as lucky. As it was, the dirt
> allowed the bird to slide sideways a bit.
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Harris,
> Robert
> To: 'kitfox-list@matronics.com'
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Model V/VI successful groundloop?
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert"
> <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
>
> Hi All,
> Has anyone groundlooped a model V/VI without any damage to the plane?
>
> Robert
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> kerrjohna@comcast.net
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RE: Tank covering
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
>
> I seem to remember a couple of modified ribs included in the kit that
> were
> essentially top and bottom cap strips joined by the ply web piece. The
> cap
> strips were faired and attached to the tank ending about 1/3 forward of
> the
> aft edge where the tank provided the airfoil.
>
> John Kerr
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 4/21/2005 10:00:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>> turboflyer@comcast.net writes:
>>
>> Would it be feasible to pop rivet some cap strip across the tank area.
> Maybe
>> 1/8 thick aluminum strips. Rivets dipped in proseal or something? If
> you
>>
>>
>> It seems that I remember seeing a/some certified fabric aircarft that
> are
>> alum covered over the wing tank area with fabric over the remaining
> wing.
> If
>> our problem was wide spread enough and considered a safety issue, I'd
> consider
>> covering the top tank portion of the wing with alum or sheet
> fiberglass.
>> For some strange reason (not yet fully determined) our fabric covered
> wings
>> tend to bunch up on the tanks. Seems that some do and some don't and
> It's
> not
>> really relative to whether the fabric was glued or not or, how it was
> glued.
>> Maybe we have a basic minor/major design fault in trying to put fabric
> in
>> that particular location.
>>
>> Don Smythe
>> Classic IV w/ 582
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> I seem to remember a couple of modified ribs included in the kit that
> were
> essentially top and bottom cap strips joined by the ply web piece. The
> cap
> strips were faired and attached to the tank ending about 1/3 forward of
> the
> aft edge where the tank provided the airfoil.
>
> John Kerr
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
> -- Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 4/21/2005 10:00:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> turboflyer@comcast.net writes:
>
> Would it be feasible to pop rivet some cap strip across the tank area.
> Maybe
> 1/8 thick aluminum strips. Rivets dipped in proseal or something? If
> you
>
>
> It seems that I remember seeing a/some certified fabric aircarft that
> are
> alum covered over the wing tank area with fabric over the remaining
> wing.
> If
> our problem was wide spread enough and considered a safety issue, I'd
> consider
> covering the top tank portion of the wing with alum or sheet
> fiberglass.
> For some strange reason (not yet fully determined) our fabric covered
> wings
>
> tend to bunch up on the tan
> ks. Seems that some do and some don't and It's not
> really relative to whether the fabric was glued or not or, how it was
> glued.
> Maybe we have a basic minor/major design fault in trying to put fabric
> in
> that particular location.
>
> Don Smythe
> Classic IV w/ 582
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Tank covering |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Perhaps one of the problems with getting the fabric to stick to the f/glass
is due to the surface coating left after molding. I cleaned the surface of
the upper surface with MEK first, then put two coats of Polytak. After
covering I shrunk the fabric, then applied a wet couat of P/tak over the
tank. Stuck like glue!!
From: AlbertaIV@aol.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RE: Tank covering
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 4/21/2005 10:00:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,
turboflyer@comcast.net writes:
Would it be feasible to pop rivet some cap strip across the tank area.
Maybe
1/8 thick aluminum strips. Rivets dipped in proseal or something? If you
It seems that I remember seeing a/some certified fabric aircarft that are
alum covered over the wing tank area with fabric over the remaining wing.
If
our problem was wide spread enough and considered a safety issue, I'd
consider
covering the top tank portion of the wing with alum or sheet fiberglass.
For some strange reason (not yet fully determined) our fabric covered wings
tend to bunch up on the tanks. Seems that some do and some don't and It's
not
really relative to whether the fabric was glued or not or, how it was
glued.
Maybe we have a basic minor/major design fault in trying to put fabric in
that particular location.
Don Smythe
Classic IV w/ 582
Need more speed? Get Xtra Broadband @
http://jetstream.xtra.co.nz/chm/0,,202853-1000,00.html
Message 15
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| Subject: | Five Alive/CG Confusion |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
Congratulations Brad! I hope you have many happy hours of safe flying in
your newly completed project.
As I'm rounding 3rd base on virtually the same aircraft I too am keenly
interested in your performance numbers once you get them. I believe my prop
is exactly the same as yours. Do you have the airfoiled tail sections?
Thank You for posting Your weight & balance data: I'm a little confused on
this subject with respect to the Lycoming O-235 in the S5 Taildragger. I'm
hoping you and/or others can give some helpful suggestions: I now know of
two completed S5 Taildraggers with Lyc O-235s. Brad's & the one that Cliff
Begnaud built. Brad's seems to be nose heavy & Cliff's seems to be tail
heavy. Not only do I not know what to expect, I feel like I only have
limited options for balancing whatever I do get (With the exception of
moving my ELT location....which will be difficult to do after covering the
fuselage.......what can I do to balance? Different tail wheel? I am firmly
opposed to adding balast.)
Are there any other completed S-5's with Lyc O-235 out there? What have
your experiences been?
Knowing that I was installing a relatively heavy engine, I've been very
conscious of weight throughout my building process, especially in the engine
compartment. (I've isntalled a light weight starter, light weight
alternator (vacuum pad driven), one electronic ignition, light weight oil &
fuel lines, had a custom prop extension made that is ~5/8" shorter than the
one skystar supplied & even went so far as to remove the alternator belt
pulley from the starter ring gear) I have airfoiled tail sections & put in
the 12 lb Oddysey battery. Several months ago, I got in touch with Cliff
Begnaud whose airplane tends to be tail heavy even with the ELT in the tail
(He too has the 12 lb Oddysey battery.) I was dismayed, thinking I might
have over done it. Now Brad has pretty much the opposite experience.
What's a boy to do? Is there that much variation in paint jobs?
Any experienced suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Grant Krueger
Brad Wrote:
Weight and Balance done on my 5 outback.
The numbers;
Left main--437, Arm -2.00
Right main--432, Arm -2.00
Tail wheel--52, Arm +164.00
Total weight 921.
Lycoming o-235L2C. No weight reduction parts.
Sensenich wood prop with SN-2 spinner.
Full panel, (no gyro)
Transponder/encoder.
Icom transceiver.
Intercom.
GPS 196--hard wired in panel.
Full engine instruments with quad CHT/ quad EGT.
Spring gear.
Maul tail wheel.
Odyssey 26 pound 935 battery in tail.
8.00--6 oversize tires.
Max Gross 1550
Max Forward CG 9.96
Max Aft CG 14.75
Empty weight CG of aircraft is 7.37
With designated FAA 170 pound pilot and 15 pounds of fuel,
24 pounds will be added to cargo bay for CG of 9.98.
Cant get it past the rear CG----pretty much anything loaded
in any configuration under gross will be within rear CG of 14.75.
Had to put the larger 26 pound odyssey in the tail to bring CG within
limits.
(You heavy engine builders might want to keep that in mind!)
Impressions;
Man am I happy!
Was worried about the CG from the time I started building,
my goal was under 950---beat it by 29 pounds even with the
heavy battery.
Carrying 24 pounds in the cargo bay is not a problem, my
tool kit weighs 25 and it stays in the aircraft.
First start of the Lycoming was a great experience! Its Alive!
Followed the Lycoming manual for initial engine break-in--took
about 25 minutes to complete the test including full static run
with the aircraft tied to the tractor----what a blast!
The Lycoming is smoooooth as silk with very little vibration.
Got a call out to JR (plain and simple), I am sure some of you remember him
from this list a few years ago--he is my EAA Tech Counselor. Then will
schedule the
DAR to get this thing done.
Paperwork is all done----Aircraft is done-----Just About There!
Brad Martin
Wichita
N232WB
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Tank covering |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 4/22/2005 4:56:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,
janderson412@hotmail.com writes:
is due to the surface coating left after molding. I cleaned the surface of
the upper surface with MEK first, then put two coats of Polytak. After
covering I shrunk the fabric, then applied a wet couat of P/tak over the
tank. Stuck like glue!!
Not to say this is right or wrong but, Poly Fiber does not recommend using
Polytak to secure fabric to a solid surface such as wood or fiberglas. They
recommend using Poly Brush for this application.
Don Smythe
Classic IV w/ 582
Message 17
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| Subject: | Another 5 coming alive. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ed Akerstrom" <e.akerstrom@sbcglobal.net>
Brad,
Thanks a bunch.
Ed
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Flybradair@cs.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another 5 coming alive.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Flybradair@cs.com
I am looking forward to providing the numbers Don! As soon as I can get
hold
of JR I will find out what
he is up to and let you know.
Ed,
Sensenech W74EM-2-54. Basically it has been cut down from 74 to 72 inches
with a 54 pitch.
Brad Martin
Wichita
N232WB
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ed Akerstrom"
<e.akerstrom@sbcglobal.net>
>
>
> Brad,
>
> Congratulations!
>
> Could you please tell me the model of Sensenich that you have?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Ed Akerstrom
>
>
> Brad wrote:
>
> Paperwork is all done----Aircraft is done-----Just About There!
>
>
> Brad Martin
> Wichita
> N232WB
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Model V/VI successful groundloop? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" <aerowood@mcsi.net>
Dragged a wing tip in the grass once. No damage.
Scared me, so I quit fast taxi until I had a CFI on board!
bh
> Hi All,
> Has anyone groundlooped a model V/VI without any damage to the plane?
>
> Robert
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