---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 04/27/05:19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:08 AM - brakes (customtrans@qwest.net) 2. 08:59 AM - Re: brakes (Bruce Harrington) 3. 09:02 AM - Re: a real true story.... (joakley@ida.net) 4. 09:40 AM - Re: brakes (customtrans@qwest.net) 5. 11:55 AM - brakes (kitfox@gto.net) 6. 12:32 PM - Re: brakes (flier) 7. 12:43 PM - Re: brakes (customtrans@qwest.net) 8. 12:46 PM - Re: brakes (customtrans@qwest.net) 9. 01:03 PM - Re: a real true story.... (kerrjohna@comcast.net) 10. 02:03 PM - Air speed indicator (Alan Daniels) 11. 02:03 PM - Engine Thrust Tests? (Paul Seehafer) 12. 02:22 PM - Re: brakes (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 13. 03:37 PM - Re: brakes (customtrans@qwest.net) 14. 04:18 PM - Tube Landing gear (kitfox@gto.net) 15. 04:33 PM - Re: brakes (Jimmie Blackwell) 16. 06:40 PM - Re: a real true story.... (Tim Kaser) 17. 08:05 PM - Re: brakes (david yeamans) 18. 08:59 PM - Spar protection (Zimmerman) 19. 09:38 PM - Re: Spar protection (SOURDOSTAN@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:08:19 AM PST US From: customtrans@qwest.net Subject: Kitfox-List: brakes --> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net Hello people, I got the KitfoxIV flying again. Wow what an improvement. This is what I changed on the plane. I shortened the wings to the speedster wings(rebuilt the whole right wing), I put on the grove gear, I changed the left tank to a 13 gallon(now have 26 total) I cut up the elevator and installed the trim system, replaced all fabric and put on 2.7 ounce fabric. The weight came out to 650 dry. I gained 50 pounds. I feel the extra weight was well worth it. The turn rate is great. It seems to float on landing much better(ground affect), the landing gear feels much more stable, but it takes a little more rudder pedal to turn the plane on the ground. The trim is a nice plus, now I don't have that nasty pressure on landing. All in all to completely redue the plane took about 5.5 months. I spent every waking moment on this plane and right now am really glad it's done. One last thing for the tube landing gear people. My landing gear broke on my accident, the AP that was helping me said the weld that let loose was already broken about half way, the hole I hit aggrivated the brake and broke the rest of the way. Something I hope never to go through again and hope nobody else has to go through. My advice, if you have that old tube gear, get rid of it. Anyway, to my problem. The left master cylinder leaks, it seems to be coming out of the stem and it feels like it still has air in it, but I can't seem to find any. I bled the system with a phoenix injector from the bottom and have the bleeder screw on the very bottom hole. The leak is pretty bad and the last time I flew I actually slipped off the left peddle and started going into a ground loop because I hit the brake in the process. No harm done because I was at a very low speed at that time. After returning to the hanger I found oil all over the floor. Any ideas? steve allbee KitfoxIV 912 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:59:55 AM PST US From: "Bruce Harrington" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: brakes --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" Hi Steve, 1. I put over 1600 landings on my IV-1200 with tube gear. No collapses. 2. Brake cylinder may need new o-ring(s) Cheers, bh ex-N194 IV-1200, 582ed, 800+ hrs > Hello people, snip > One last thing for the tube landing gear people. My landing gear broke on > my > accident, the AP that was helping me said the weld that let loose was > already broken about half way, the hole I hit aggrivated the brake and > broke > the rest of the way. Something I hope never to go through again and hope > nobody else has to go through. My advice, if you have that old tube gear, > get rid of it. > > Anyway, to my problem. The left master cylinder leaks, it seems to be > coming out of the stem and it feels like it still has air in it, but I > can't > seem to find any. I bled the system with a phoenix injector from the > bottom > and have the bleeder screw on the very bottom hole. The leak is pretty > bad > and the last time I flew I actually slipped off the left peddle and > started > going into a ground loop because I hit the brake in the process. No harm > done because I was at a very low speed at that time. After returning to > the > hanger I found oil all over the floor. Any ideas? > > steve allbee > KitfoxIV 912 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:02:13 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: a real true story.... From: joakley@ida.net --> Kitfox-List message posted by: joakley@ida.net Tim, once again your fluff and purdy writing has me has me shamed to the point of tears. not only can you write with great flair but like a good movie I am riveted to the screen waiting for the next sentence. Why, you can even spell. obviously not an engineer, must be a PR guy. we are waiting (Dianna and I) for your first flights and the eventual hundred dollar burger runs together. Let me know what your new weight and balance is. I would like your old tail gear if you want to part with it. the two may make one good tw system. John Oakley ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:40:50 AM PST US From: customtrans@qwest.net Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: brakes --> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net All I can say is it takes once. steve allbee -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bruce Harrington Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: brakes --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" Hi Steve, 1. I put over 1600 landings on my IV-1200 with tube gear. No collapses. 2. Brake cylinder may need new o-ring(s) Cheers, bh ex-N194 IV-1200, 582ed, 800+ hrs > Hello people, snip > One last thing for the tube landing gear people. My landing gear broke on > my > accident, the AP that was helping me said the weld that let loose was > already broken about half way, the hole I hit aggrivated the brake and > broke > the rest of the way. Something I hope never to go through again and hope > nobody else has to go through. My advice, if you have that old tube gear, > get rid of it. > > Anyway, to my problem. The left master cylinder leaks, it seems to be > coming out of the stem and it feels like it still has air in it, but I > can't > seem to find any. I bled the system with a phoenix injector from the > bottom > and have the bleeder screw on the very bottom hole. The leak is pretty > bad > and the last time I flew I actually slipped off the left peddle and > started > going into a ground loop because I hit the brake in the process. No harm > done because I was at a very low speed at that time. After returning to > the > hanger I found oil all over the floor. Any ideas? > > steve allbee > KitfoxIV 912 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:55:30 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: brakes From: kitfox@gto.net --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net Hi Steve, I am new here but have to comment on your post. " My advice, if you have that old tube gear, get rid of it." That is a totally insane comment. It would matter if tube gear or spring gear, if you abuse it you could lose it. (and it looks like you did ? ) Your 4130 is very strong, perhaps you missed the the cracking on your annual inspections , walkaround or post- hard landing inspection. I have flown for 25 years on Skis as well and the side forces are moreso on the gear legs and spindles and never broke a landing gear "YET" ( i hope i not jinxing myself ) . Secondly, you should not be flying with oil leaking in cockpit. O rings are cheap. Good luck. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:32:05 PM PST US From: "flier" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: brakes --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" Sorry to hear about the accident. I've got 450 hrs and double that in landings on my tube gear in all kinds of terrain and no probs. Friend of mine has over 1200 hrs and lord knows how many landings. Everyone will agree that the spring gear will take more abuse but I personally like the looks of the tube gear over the spring. To each his own... --- Original Message --- From: kitfox@gto.net Subject: Kitfox-List: brakes >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net > >Hi Steve, > >I am new here but have to comment on your post. >" My advice, if you have that old tube gear, >get rid of it." > >That is a totally insane comment. It would matter if tube gear or >spring gear, if you abuse it you could lose it. (and it looks like you >did ? ) > >Your 4130 is very strong, perhaps you missed the the cracking on your >annual inspections , walkaround or post- hard landing inspection. I >have flown for 25 years on Skis as well and the side forces are moreso >on the gear legs and spindles and never broke a landing gear "YET" ( >i hope i not jinxing myself ) . > >Secondly, you should not be flying with oil leaking in cockpit. O rings >are cheap. > > >Good luck. > > >_- ====================================================== ====== browse Subscriptions page, FAQ, List >_- ====================================================== ====== > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:43:34 PM PST US From: customtrans@qwest.net Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: brakes --> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net I now have the grove gear. The AP that looked at the gear said it was cracked before the incident, also the paint prevented the crack from showing. Also skystar put an ad out on the old landing gear. The oil leak happened on the one flight, caught it after the landing. I called grove and was told that you need to lower the oil level in the resevoir to about 1/4 inch from the top, they Rob said to take some wire and poke it in the hole and release the bleeder until the level is 1/4 down or it will leak out the stem. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kitfox@gto.net Subject: Kitfox-List: brakes --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net Hi Steve, I am new here but have to comment on your post. " My advice, if you have that old tube gear, get rid of it." That is a totally insane comment. It would matter if tube gear or spring gear, if you abuse it you could lose it. (and it looks like you did ? ) Your 4130 is very strong, perhaps you missed the the cracking on your annual inspections , walkaround or post- hard landing inspection. I have flown for 25 years on Skis as well and the side forces are moreso on the gear legs and spindles and never broke a landing gear "YET" ( i hope i not jinxing myself ) . Secondly, you should not be flying with oil leaking in cockpit. O rings are cheap. Good luck. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:46:35 PM PST US From: customtrans@qwest.net Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: brakes --> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net One more comment, there is no insane comment when skystar themselves say to replace the gear. And the leaking in the cockpit, that is why I asked the question, I'm not flying it again until I fix the leak. steve a -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kitfox@gto.net Subject: Kitfox-List: brakes --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net Hi Steve, I am new here but have to comment on your post. " My advice, if you have that old tube gear, get rid of it." That is a totally insane comment. It would matter if tube gear or spring gear, if you abuse it you could lose it. (and it looks like you did ? ) Your 4130 is very strong, perhaps you missed the the cracking on your annual inspections , walkaround or post- hard landing inspection. I have flown for 25 years on Skis as well and the side forces are moreso on the gear legs and spindles and never broke a landing gear "YET" ( i hope i not jinxing myself ) . Secondly, you should not be flying with oil leaking in cockpit. O rings are cheap. Good luck. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:03:44 PM PST US From: kerrjohna@comcast.net Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: a real true story.... --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net you Idaho guys need to realize that there is airspace and hamburgers south of Pocatello John -------------- Original message -------------- > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: joakley@ida.net > > Tim, > once again your fluff and purdy writing has me has me shamed to the point > of tears. not only can you write with great flair but like a good movie I > am riveted to the screen waiting for the next sentence. Why, you can even > spell. obviously not an engineer, must be a PR guy. > we are waiting (Dianna and I) for your first flights and the eventual > hundred dollar burger runs together. > > Let me know what your new weight and balance is. > > I would like your old tail gear if you want to part with it. the two may > make one good tw system. > > John Oakley > > > > > > you Idaho guys need to realize that there is airspace and hamburgers south of Pocatello John -------------- Original message -------------- -- Kitfox-List message posted by: joakley@ida.net Tim, once again your fluff and purdy writing has me has me shamed to the point of tears. not only can you write with great flair but like a good movie I am riveted to the screen waiting for the next sentence. Why, you can even spell. obviously not an engineer, must be a PR guy. we are waiting (Dianna and I) for your first flights and the eventual hundred dollar burger runs together. Let me know what your new weight and balance is. I would like your old tail gear if you want to part with it. the two may make one good tw system. John Oakley Kitfox-List Email Forum - ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:03:06 PM PST US From: Alan Daniels Subject: Kitfox-List: Air speed indicator --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan Daniels I have been off the list for some time now so don't know if this has been discussed. Last time I was on I was finishing my 7 with the Kitfox build group and had been flying my Vixen since 1996 with a CAM 100 engine. Since then my son and I built a 5 with a 7 firewall forward. I am test flying it now. Just for your information I was at Skystar monday and it was very good to see lots of activity again. They clearly had been on life support for some time. I am not part of the company and have no inside information but the look of death is gone. I also like some of the new improvements they are making. The new cargo bay is nice, and I really like the new clear door. The new 4 tank wing is interesting, but unless you fly the bush in Alaska I am not sure why you would need 55 gallons of gas. Its nice to have he option though. The folding wing is great on the Fox, but if you have been folding the wings ( and even if not ) and you always seems to have a tailwind when comparing your GPS to your airspeed indicator you might want to check your pitot system. Even a very small leak in the tubing will cause a major change in indicated airspeed. A simple way to do that is get a three inch or so section of tygon tubing that fits the pitot tube, put one end in a medium size kids balloon and tape it on. Blow up the balloon through the tube and pinch off the tube and put it on the pitot tube. It will give you around 100 to 120 MPH reading on your airspeed indicator. The speed is not important as it has to do with how strong the balloon is. What is important is that the balloon does not go down. If it deflates in a couple of minutes it could effect the indicated airspeed by 10 to 15 or more MPH all across the range. If it goes down you should be able to hear the air leaking and fix it by slipping a section of tygon tubing over the damaged area. Alan ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:03:24 PM PST US From: "Paul Seehafer" Subject: Kitfox-List: Engine Thrust Tests? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" Anyone on the list ever done a thrust test on your Kitfox? Just curious what one can expect for pulling numbers? A friend that has a just completed a Highlander with a 912s is going to do one on his, which incidentally also has the brand new Sensenich (sp?) composite ground adjustable prop on it. I thought it might be useful information for the group since at this point in time no one really knows much about that prop. He plans on tethering the airplane to a tie down with a heavy nylon strap with a heavy spring scale at the other end. Is this an accurate test? Is there a better way to do it? Paul Seehafer Central Wisconsin ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:22:31 PM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: brakes --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com <> There is always some good on any topic of discussion. Because of this discussion, I took a trip over to the Skystar web site to look at all the service letters/documents. I found several that I don't remember seeing before and the dates on some didn't look quite right. Anyway, if you haven't looked at the SL/SD info lately, it might do some good to freshen up. (under "Tech Support") BTW, there is one SL or SD that talks about the tube gear but it doesn't imply or suggest going to the spring gear. Don Smythe Classic IV w/ 582 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:37:43 PM PST US From: customtrans@qwest.net Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: brakes --> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net Maybe not, but they do have an updated tube gear, at least do that steve a -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: brakes --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com <> There is always some good on any topic of discussion. Because of this discussion, I took a trip over to the Skystar web site to look at all the service letters/documents. I found several that I don't remember seeing before and the dates on some didn't look quite right. Anyway, if you haven't looked at the SL/SD info lately, it might do some good to freshen up. (under "Tech Support") BTW, there is one SL or SD that talks about the tube gear but it doesn't imply or suggest going to the spring gear. Don Smythe Classic IV w/ 582 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:18:58 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Tube Landing gear From: kitfox@gto.net --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net Sorry but i have to defend the tube gear as I strongly feel that there is little wrong with it. Grove gear I have never tried mainly because the Kitfox is such a nice handing plane with tube gear. Sorry but Tube gear is very good. And did you know that spring gear breaks too ? it does. It was claimed that Skystar advised to change to Grove gear ? According to this http://www.skystar.com/Service%20Letters/sl48.htm It says PILOT ERROR not TUBE ERROR. This how rumors and in-correct information gets circulated by blaming everything but the root of the problem. Skystar even states " It has been our experience that incorrect handling of the aircraft on the ground (especially during landing) and poor maintenance have led to failures in a few of these gears in the field." and this "Prior to your next flight, we strongly recommend that you inspect your landing gear carefully. Figure 2 gives some general guidelines for this inspection. Begin by looking at all of the welded joints to insure there are no signs of fatigue. Next, make certain all structural members are straight, there are no dents in any members, and the bungee cords and the safety cable are not wearing or chafing on the gear members. The condition of the bungee should also be checked, and it should be replaced annually." Steve, it is hard to detect with out a trained eye for cracked welds and/or metal fatigue. But I would strongly feel that a broken weld would have shown up in a deformed or distorted gear that "could of " been caught possibly. Also the stance of plane could have looked a bit off. Black or dark coated paint or powder coating does not help to see cracks either. Was this gear new or used at the time ? ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:33:16 PM PST US From: "Jimmie Blackwell" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: brakes --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" I had the same problem after installing Grove gear with Matco cylinders. If you have Matco Brake cylinders let me know and I may be able to help you. Jimmie ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Kitfox-List: brakes > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net > > Hello people, > I got the KitfoxIV flying again. Wow what an improvement. This is what I > changed on the plane. I shortened the wings to the speedster wings(rebuilt > the whole right wing), I put on the grove gear, I changed the left tank to a > 13 gallon(now have 26 total) I cut up the elevator and installed the trim > system, replaced all fabric and put on 2.7 ounce fabric. The weight came out > to 650 dry. I gained 50 pounds. I feel the extra weight was well worth it. > The turn rate is great. It seems to float on landing much better(ground > affect), the landing gear feels much more stable, but it takes a little more > rudder pedal to turn the plane on the ground. The trim is a nice plus, now > I don't have that nasty pressure on landing. All in all to completely redue > the plane took about 5.5 months. I spent every waking moment on this plane > and right now am really glad it's done. > > One last thing for the tube landing gear people. My landing gear broke on my > accident, the AP that was helping me said the weld that let loose was > already broken about half way, the hole I hit aggrivated the brake and broke > the rest of the way. Something I hope never to go through again and hope > nobody else has to go through. My advice, if you have that old tube gear, > get rid of it. > > Anyway, to my problem. The left master cylinder leaks, it seems to be > coming out of the stem and it feels like it still has air in it, but I can't > seem to find any. I bled the system with a phoenix injector from the bottom > and have the bleeder screw on the very bottom hole. The leak is pretty bad > and the last time I flew I actually slipped off the left peddle and started > going into a ground loop because I hit the brake in the process. No harm > done because I was at a very low speed at that time. After returning to the > hanger I found oil all over the floor. Any ideas? > > steve allbee > KitfoxIV 912 > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:40:37 PM PST US From: Tim Kaser Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: a real true story.... --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tim Kaser Don't expect us real soon. N316R aint quite ready for flight just yet. Exactly what burger joint are you referring to? And will we have enough fuel to get there? Is the field, road, or tarmac a very short distance from said fabulous burger establishment? Finally, If its over a hundred buck, we'll have to think about it. A lot. Some sort of enhanced inducement might be necessary. Like absolutely garranteed perfect weather. Tim Kaser - - I do enjoy being enlightened kerrjohna@comcast.net wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net > >you Idaho guys need to realize that there is airspace and hamburgers south of Pocatello > >John > >-------------- Original message -------------- > > > >>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: joakley@ida.net >> >>Tim, >>once again your fluff and purdy writing has me has me shamed to the point >>of tears. not only can you write with great flair but like a good movie I >>am riveted to the screen waiting for the next sentence. Why, you can even >>spell. obviously not an engineer, must be a PR guy. >>we are waiting (Dianna and I) for your first flights and the eventual >>hundred dollar burger runs together. >> >>Let me know what your new weight and balance is. >> >>I would like your old tail gear if you want to part with it. the two may >>make one good tw system. >> >>John Oakley >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >you Idaho guys need to realize that there is airspace and hamburgers south of Pocatello > >John > >-------------- Original message -------------- > > -- Kitfox-List message posted by: joakley@ida.net > > Tim, > once again your fluff and purdy writing has me has me shamed to the point > of tears. not only can you write with great flair but like a good movie I > am riveted to the screen waiting for the next sentence. Why, you can even > spell. obviously not an engineer, must be a PR guy. > we are waiting (Dianna and I) for your first flights and the eventual > hundred dollar burger runs together. > > Let me know what your new weight and balance is. > > I would like your old tail gear if you want to part with it. the two may > make one good tw system. > > John Oakley > > > Kitfox-List Email Forum - > > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:05:44 PM PST US From: "david yeamans" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: brakes --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "david yeamans" Hello Steve, I put over 500 landings on my IV-1200 with tube gear also, and no collapses. I had one landing ( Or I should say a touch and go ) that was a real test. I was coming in for a landing a little to high, so I slip it in at 45 mph, plus I had a little tail wind, and a 200 lb passenger, at 10 ft above the ground I took it out of the slip and it dropped like a hot potatoe. almost 1200 lbs fell to the ground and bounced 10 ft back into the air. I did a go around and landed from the other direction with no problem. I checked my tube gears with a manifying glass and there was not a sign of a crack. My fiberglass seat did have a crack in the center where it straddles the center tube which I repaired. I know that a few of the tube gears have given away on a side load from a strong cross wind landing. It seems to me somewhere , sometime ago, I read where a Grove gear collapsed under the same conditions. someone correct me if I am wrong. N317DY IV-1200, ex 582 , 240 hrs ( Now a 912 ) David ----- Original Message ----- From: Bruce Harrington To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 10:59 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: brakes --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" Hi Steve, 1. I put over 1600 landings on my IV-1200 with tube gear. No collapses. 2. Brake cylinder may need new o-ring(s) Cheers, bh ex-N194 IV-1200, 582ed, 800+ hrs > Hello people, snip > One last thing for the tube landing gear people. My landing gear broke on > my > accident, the AP that was helping me said the weld that let loose was > already broken about half way, the hole I hit aggrivated the brake and > broke > the rest of the way. Something I hope never to go through again and hope > nobody else has to go through. My advice, if you have that old tube gear, > get rid of it. > > Anyway, to my problem. The left master cylinder leaks, it seems to be > coming out of the stem and it feels like it still has air in it, but I > can't > seem to find any. I bled the system with a phoenix injector from the > bottom > and have the bleeder screw on the very bottom hole. The leak is pretty > bad > and the last time I flew I actually slipped off the left peddle and > started > going into a ground loop because I hit the brake in the process. No harm > done because I was at a very low speed at that time. After returning to > the > hanger I found oil all over the floor. Any ideas? > > steve allbee > KitfoxIV 912 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:59:49 PM PST US From: "Zimmerman" Subject: Kitfox-List: Spar protection --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Zimmerman" Hi, I have a series 5 kit with the factory built wings. There is no corrosion protection done at the factory. I am looking for ideas on protecting the inside of the spars. The spars have the insert making it a little more difficult. Also looking for FWF 0-200 stuff. Thanks Jim ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:38:38 PM PST US From: SOURDOSTAN@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spar protection --> Kitfox-List message posted by: SOURDOSTAN@aol.com Jim- I treated the inside of my Model IV spars by getting some epoxy primer and pouring it into the spars and turning the wing over and over and end to end until I felt reasonably confident that I had treated all the inside surfaces. Takes two people to handle the wing. I did one spar at a time and dumped out the remaining primer to use in the next spar. I put tennis balls inside plastic sandwich bags and stuffed them in the ends of the spars. I don't recall if the Series V spars are a little bigger or not, but I think they are just thicker-walled, so the tennis balls should work okay. Stan Specht Kitfox Model IV Speedster "Columbine"