Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:13 AM - leaky tires (Fox5flyer)
2. 03:32 AM - Gears. WAS brakes (Michel Verheughe)
3. 05:09 AM - Hard Landing, was brakes (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
4. 05:16 AM - Re: leaky tires (vft@aol.com)
5. 06:48 AM - Re: leaky tires (Paul Seehafer)
6. 07:11 AM - Re: leaky tires (Fred Shiple)
7. 07:30 AM - Re: leaky tires (Don Pearsall)
8. 07:42 AM - Re: leaky tires (Fox5flyer)
9. 08:16 AM - Trim actuator (Joel Mapes)
10. 08:17 AM - leaky tires (kitfox@gto.net)
11. 08:23 AM - Re: Spar protection (Joel Mapes)
12. 08:34 AM - Re: Hard Landing, was brakes (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
13. 08:36 AM - Re: leaky tires (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
14. 10:44 AM - Re: a real true story.... (Richard Hutson)
15. 12:08 PM - Re: Spar protection (flier)
16. 12:14 PM - Re: Hard Landing, was brakes (kurt schrader)
17. 12:21 PM - Re: Spar protection (kurt schrader)
18. 01:05 PM - Re: brakes (Randy Daughenbaugh)
19. 04:09 PM - Re: brakes (customtrans@qwest.net)
20. 04:57 PM - Re: Spar protection (John Anderson)
21. 05:30 PM - Tube Landing gear (kitfox@gto.net)
22. 06:50 PM - Re: Tube Landing gear (customtrans@qwest.net)
23. 06:57 PM - Re: Hard Landing, was brakes (Bruce Harrington)
24. 07:35 PM - Re: Hard Landing, was brakes (david yeamans)
25. 07:38 PM - Re: Tube Landing gear (Paul Seehafer)
26. 07:44 PM - New England Flyers (Mike Tode)
27. 07:57 PM - Jabiru Wood Prop For Sale (Steve Cooper)
28. 08:38 PM - Re: Hard Landing, was brakes (Alan Daniels)
Message 1
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
The 600x6 tires with Cleveland wheels on my S5 need refilling with air much too
often. Both seem to lose air at about the same rate and I can't find any leaks.
I've too many other things on my plate right now to be replacing the tubes
so I was wondering if there's a sealer that I can use that's safe and non corrosive,
and most of all, that will work. Anybody have any suggestions on this
stufff? Does anybody know how this stuff actually works? I don't want to cure
one problem to cause yet another problem.
Thanks,
Deke
Message 2
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| Subject: | Gears. WAS brakes |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
> From: AlbertaIV@aol.com
> There is always some good on any topic of discussion.
Indeed, Don. I have the tube gear but, after two and half years reading this list,
I think I can state that there are no doubts, the Grove aluminium gear is
stronger and less prone to ground loop. But the tube gear is also certainly ok,
since the Kitfox is, after all, one of the most sold homebuilt plane in the
world. All those builders can't be wrong.
Aesteticaly speaking, I thing the tubes look better on a taildragger and the Grove,
on a tricycle.
One more thing, guys: When you write to the list, please sign your email. It makes
it easier for us to follow who is saying what. Last: don't forget that, if
you feel your email is not really bringing something worth archiving as a "Kitfox
building tip," add the "Do not archive" at the end. Thanks.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Hard Landing, was brakes |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
<<almost 1200 lbs fell to the ground and bounced 10 ft back into the air. I
did a go around and landed from the other direction with no problem. I
checked my tube gears with a manifying glass and there was not a sign of a
crack.>>
This is not to promote or put down spring or tube gear. Your post did
trigger a thought in my mind. Under such an extreme hard landing (as you
describe) and it sounded very extreme, I'm "wondering" if more severe testing
might be in order. A crack might not be detectable with visual means. I know
it's a lot of work but if it were me, I'd "consider" doing some NDT/PT
testing on the gear and any other structural points. Didn't say I'd do it but
I
sure would feel better knowing. A hair line crack under the paint is only
going to get worse until it breaks. Of course, that requires removing some paint
and I don't know too many people that would be willing to do that. On the
other hand, if it were a certified aircraft it might be required by the FAA.
At some degree of a hard landing something is going to "BUST" whether it
be tube/spring gear, mounting brackets, motor mounts, muffler, etc.
Again, this is not a gear issue but something that I wonder about.
Don Smythe
Classic IV w/ 582
Message 4
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: vft@aol.com
Hey Deke,
Buy a set of Michelin "Air Stop" tubes. My hanger mate switched over to these
in his RV-8 and has not had to add any air in the past 9 months.
Danny Melnik
F1 #25
Melbourne (FL) Rocket Factory
-----Original Message-----
From: Fox5flyer <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Subject: Kitfox-List: leaky tires
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
The 600x6 tires with Cleveland wheels on my S5 need refilling with air much too
often. Both seem to lose air at about the same rate and I can't find any leaks.
I've too many other things on my plate right now to be replacing the tubes so I
was wondering if there's a sealer that I can use that's safe and non corrosive,
and most of all, that will work. Anybody have any suggestions on this stufff?
Does anybody know how this stuff actually works? I don't want to cure one
problem to cause yet another problem.
Thanks,
Deke
Message 5
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
If it's a slow leak, walmart (or any auto store) sells fix-a-flat cans of
air that also fix slow leaks and balance issues. I've used this many times
on car and trailer tires. As long as the leak isn't big they work good.
And even if it doesn't work, you're only out 5 or 6 bucks, and have only a
somewhat messy tube to deal with when finally changing the tube out.
Paul Seehafer
Central Wisconsin
----- Original Message -----
From: <vft@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: leaky tires
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: vft@aol.com
>
> Hey Deke,
>
> Buy a set of Michelin "Air Stop" tubes. My hanger mate switched over to
> these in his RV-8 and has not had to add any air in the past 9 months.
>
> Danny Melnik
> F1 #25
> Melbourne (FL) Rocket Factory
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fox5flyer <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
> To: Kitfox List <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kitfox-List: leaky tires
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
>
> The 600x6 tires with Cleveland wheels on my S5 need refilling with air
> much too
> often. Both seem to lose air at about the same rate and I can't find any
> leaks.
> I've too many other things on my plate right now to be replacing the tubes
> so I
> was wondering if there's a sealer that I can use that's safe and non
> corrosive,
> and most of all, that will work. Anybody have any suggestions on this
> stufff?
> Does anybody know how this stuff actually works? I don't want to cure one
> problem to cause yet another problem.
> Thanks,
> Deke
>
>
>
Message 6
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Fred Shiple <fredshiple@sbcglobal.net>
Deke,
While building had one of the new tubes do the same when first installed. Got a
replacement valve stem from the auto parts store and no leaks since.
Fred
The 600x6 tires with Cleveland wheels on my S5 need refilling with air much too
often. Both seem to lose air at about the same rate and I can't find any leaks.
I've
Message 7
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
A real popular tube sealer is "Green Slime." Most auto stores carry it. Of
course once you put some in the tire, you have to spin the tires for the
stuff to spread around the inside of the tubes and self level. You could do
that with a few touch and gos.
Don Pearsall
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Shiple
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: leaky tires
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Fred Shiple <fredshiple@sbcglobal.net>
Deke,
While building had one of the new tubes do the same when first installed.
Got a replacement valve stem from the auto parts store and no leaks since.
Fred
The 600x6 tires with Cleveland wheels on my S5 need refilling with air much
too often. Both seem to lose air at about the same rate and I can't find any
leaks. I've
Message 8
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Thanks Dan. I'll check it out.
Deke
(still waiting for the mailman :-) )
> Hey Deke,
>
> Buy a set of Michelin "Air Stop" tubes. My hanger mate switched over to
these in his RV-8 and has not had to add any air in the past 9 months.
>
> Danny Melnik
> F1 #25
> Melbourne (FL) Rocket Factory
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fox5flyer <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
> To: Kitfox List <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kitfox-List: leaky tires
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
>
> The 600x6 tires with Cleveland wheels on my S5 need refilling with air
much too
> often. Both seem to lose air at about the same rate and I can't find any
leaks.
> I've too many other things on my plate right now to be replacing the tubes
so I
> was wondering if there's a sealer that I can use that's safe and non
corrosive,
> and most of all, that will work. Anybody have any suggestions on this
stufff?
> Does anybody know how this stuff actually works? I don't want to cure one
> problem to cause yet another problem.
> Thanks,
> Deke
>
>
Message 9
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Joel Mapes" <foxfloatflyer@hotmail.com>
Does anyone have an extra Pittman style trim actuator for a model 5? I
managed to crack the casting on mine during installation.
Thanks,
Joel
Model 5 912 GTA CS prop Aerocomp amphibs
'ready for paint'
http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/
Message 10
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
Deke, you said you not have time to changes tubes? If you are sure
that you have tubes( check stem) Then you must remove and find leak in
tube.
The sealer i doubt will work on a tube unless it a puncture on the
outside of tude like from a nail. A tube can leak form a hole near
stem or on inside form tube rubbing on rought spot on wheel it's self.
Only way to know is take apart I think. The sealer does work well
on puncture wounds on tubeless tires but it you have a rim leak it not
necessarily going to fix the leak as it works on centrifical force and
the gunk might not get into the bead seal. Does that make sense?
But hey for 5$ a bottle if might be worth the shot, but i think for the
time involved it better to find the root of the problem.
Kirby
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Spar protection |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Joel Mapes" <foxfloatflyer@hotmail.com>
Our neighbors got a chuckle watching my wife and I corrosion proof the
interior of our spar tubes. We rinsed them with metal prep, sloshing and
rotating them while standing in the driveway. I used plastic wrap and rubber
bands at first, but switched to tennis balls after finding the alodine
leaking around the plastic. After rinsing with water and drying we used
thinned zinc chromate epoxy primer, raising and lowering each end of the
wing while rotating it. The paint takes a long time to dry inside the tubes
and the tennis balls just don't play like they used to.
Joel
Model 5 912 GTA CS prop Aerocomp amphibs
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Hard Landing, was brakes |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
the hard, straight ahead landing described might show some evidence of damage in
the area of the bungy/retaining cable in the fuselage or gear. Was the limit
of the cable actually reached?
my flying buddy was hit by an extreme gust from 90 degrees upon touch down causing
the tail wheel to release followed immediately by a semi-ground loop with
a lot of forward momentum. it was the severe side load that cause the gear to
fail, not from tension but from compression. The outside edge of neither wheels
or skis is the place to find joy.
John Kerr
Classic IV 720 hrs, 1500+ landing on tube gear.
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
>
> <> did a go around and landed from the other direction with no problem. I
> checked my tube gears with a manifying glass and there was not a sign of a
> crack.>>
>
>
> This is not to promote or put down spring or tube gear. Your post did
> trigger a thought in my mind. Under such an extreme hard landing (as you
> describe) and it sounded very extreme, I'm "wondering" if more severe testing
> might be in order. A crack might not be detectable with visual means. I know
> it's a lot of work but if it were me, I'd "consider" doing some NDT/PT
> testing on the gear and any other structural points. Didn't say I'd do it but
> I
> sure would feel better knowing. A hair line crack under the paint is only
> going to get worse until it breaks. Of course, that requires removing some
> paint
> and I don't know too many people that would be willing to do that. On the
> other hand, if it were a certified aircraft it might be required by the FAA.
> At some degree of a hard landing something is going to "BUST" whether it
> be tube/spring gear, mounting brackets, motor mounts, muffler, etc.
> Again, this is not a gear issue but something that I wonder about.
>
>
> Don Smythe
> Classic IV w/ 582
>
>
>
>
>
>
the hard, straight ahead landing described might show some evidence of damage in
the area of the bungy/retaining cable in the fuselage or gear.Was the limit
of the cable actually reached?
my flying buddy was hit by an extreme gust from 90 degrees upon touch down causing
the tail wheel to release followed immediately by a semi-ground loop with
a lot of forward momentum. it was the severe side load that cause the gear to
fail, not from tension but from compression. The outside edge of neither wheels
or skis is the place to find joy.
John Kerr
Classic IV 720 hrs, 1500+ landing on tube gear.
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
<ALMOST <BR I air. the into back ft 10 bounced and ground to fell lbs 1200> did
a go around and landed from the other direction with no problem. I
checked my tube gears with a manifying glass and there was not a sign of a
crack.
This is not to promote or put down spring or tube gear. Your post did
trigger a thought in my mind. Under such an extreme hard landing (as you
describe) and it sounded very extreme, I'm "wondering" if more severe testing
might be in order. A crack might not be detectable with visual means. I know
it's a lot of work but if it were me, I'd "consider" doing some NDT/PT
testing on the gear and any other structural points. Di
dn't say I'd do it but
I
sure would feel better knowing. A hair line crack under the paint is only
going to get worse until it breaks. Of course, that requires removing some
paint
and I don't know too many people that would be willing to do that. On the
other hand, if it were a certified aircraft it might be required by the FAA.
At some degree of a hard landing something is going to "BUST" whether it
be tube/spring gear, mounting brackets, motor mounts, muffler, etc.
Again, this is not a gear issue but something that I wonder about.
Don Smythe
Classic IV w/ 582
ownload, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
Message 13
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
my RV 9 tires took about 6 months to get all the air out from between the tube
and the tire (my guess) but now holds pressure without a problem.
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: vft@aol.com
>
> Hey Deke,
>
> Buy a set of Michelin "Air Stop" tubes. My hanger mate switched over to these
> in his RV-8 and has not had to add any air in the past 9 months.
>
> Danny Melnik
> F1 #25
> Melbourne (FL) Rocket Factory
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fox5flyer
> To: Kitfox List
> Subject: Kitfox-List: leaky tires
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer"
>
> The 600x6 tires with Cleveland wheels on my S5 need refilling with air much too
> often. Both seem to lose air at about the same rate and I can't find any leaks.
> I've too many other things on my plate right now to be replacing the tubes so
I
> was wondering if there's a sealer that I can use that's safe and non corrosive,
> and most of all, that will work. Anybody have any suggestions on this stufff?
> Does anybody know how this stuff actually works? I don't want to cure one
> problem to cause yet another problem.
> Thanks,
> Deke
>
>
>
>
>
>
my RV 9 tires took about6 months to get all the air out from between the tube and
the tire (my guess)but now holds pressure without a problem.
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: vft@aol.com
Hey Deke,
Buy a set of Michelin "Air Stop" tubes. My hanger mate switched over to these
in his RV-8 and has not had to add any air in the past 9 months.
Danny Melnik
F1 #25
Melbourne (FL) Rocket Factory
-----Original Message-----
From: Fox5flyer <MORID@NORTHLAND.LIB.MI.US>
To: Kitfox List <KITFOX-LIST@MATRONICS.COM>
Subject: Kitfox-List: leaky tires
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <MORID@NORTHLAND.LIB.MI.US>
The 600x6 tires with Cleveland wheels on my S5 need refilling with air much too
often. Both seem to lose air at about the same rate and I can't find any leaks.
I've to
o many other things on my plate right now to be replacing the tubes so I
was wondering if there's a sealer that I can use that's safe and non corrosive,
and most of all, that will work. Anybody have any suggestions on this stufff?
Does anybody know how this stuff actually works? I don't want to cure one
problem to cause yet another problem.
Thanks,
Deke
</BLOCKQ
UOTE>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: a real true story.... |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Hutson" <rhutson@midsouth.rr.com>
CAN SOMEONE DIRECT ME TO THE MOVIE, I MISSED IT SOMEHOW
DO NOT ARCHIVE
>>
>> Tim,
>> once again your fluff and purdy writing has me has me shamed to the point
>> of tears. not only can you write with great flair but like a good movie I
>> am riveted to the screen waiting for the next sentence. Why, you can even
>> spell. obviously not an engineer, must be a PR guy.
>> we are waiting (Dianna and I) for your first flights and the eventual
>> hundred dollar burger runs together.
>
> you Idaho guys need to realize that there is airspace and hamburgers south
> of Pocatello
>
> John
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
>>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Spar protection |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
I did the same thing only by myself. I did run an
MEK soaked rag down the spars like cleaning a gun
(both ends from the insert). Then conversion coat
followed by rinse and finally epoxy primer. I've
used tennis balls and duct tape and both work about
as well. I just grabbed the ribs and tilted the
wings back and forth while rotating then dumped out
the excess. It's a good idea to do it out in the
grass or gravel as some of that primer always gets
out!
Regards,
Ted
--- Original Message ---
From: "Joel Mapes" <foxfloatflyer@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spar protection
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Joel Mapes"
<foxfloatflyer@hotmail.com>
>
>Our neighbors got a chuckle watching my wife and I
corrosion proof the
>interior of our spar tubes. We rinsed them with
metal prep, sloshing and
>rotating them while standing in the driveway. I used
plastic wrap and rubber
>bands at first, but switched to tennis balls after
finding the alodine
>leaking around the plastic. After rinsing with water
and drying we used
>thinned zinc chromate epoxy primer, raising and
lowering each end of the
>wing while rotating it. The paint takes a long time
to dry inside the tubes
>and the tennis balls just don't play like they used
to.
>
>Joel
>Model 5 912 GTA CS prop Aerocomp amphibs
>
>
>_-
======================================================
======
browse
Subscriptions page,
FAQ,
List
>_-
======================================================
======
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Hard Landing, was brakes |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
This brings two other items to mind.
Some Helos have pressurized frames or rotator blade
spars that have indicators which show a loss of
pressure when there is a crack. It is a simple
preflight item to look at the indicator. If it shows
a loss of pressure, you don't fly and inspect for the
cause. I wonder if anyone knows of a way to apply
this technique to the tube gear? Those tire valve
stems with pressure indicators might work. But can it
be installed without weakening the tube?
Second, though I like the look of the tube gear too, I
worry about a broken tube becoming a spear poking into
the cockpit. The steel web around the gear mounts
should stop most of this, but not all. If you break
the gear in a side load landing, you are being thrown
toward the broken gear by the side load while the gear
tube is being pushed at the cockpit.
I had the same worry about the nose gear mount.
Maybe I worry too much, but I have the TW with Grove
gear instead. Now if I can just learn to land it...
:-)
Kurt S. S-5
--- AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote:
>
> This is not to promote or put down spring or
> tube gear. Your post did
> trigger a thought in my mind. Under such an
> extreme hard landing (as you
> describe) and it sounded very extreme, I'm
> "wondering" if more severe testing
> might be in order. A crack might not be detectable
> with visual means.......
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Spar protection |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Jim,
I did the same as Stan with my S-5. The tennis balls
in baggies worked fine for me too. I cleaned and
sloshed after installing all the hardware to the spars
so that there would be a coating over all the rivets
too. Keeps the water and corrosion out of the rivet
to spar contacts.
Unfortunately the epoxy leaked from the rivet centers
making a bit of a mess. I should have used the white
zinc cromate instead of the green...
Kurt S. S-5
--- SOURDOSTAN@aol.com wrote:
>
> Jim-
> I treated the inside of my Model IV spars by getting
> some epoxy primer and
> pouring it into the spars and turning the wing over
> and over and end to end
> until I felt reasonably confident that I had treated
> all the inside surfaces.
> Takes two people to handle the wing. I did one spar
> at a time and dumped out the
> remaining primer to use in the next spar. I put
> tennis balls inside plastic
> sandwich bags and stuffed them in the ends of the
> spars. I don't recall if the
> Series V spars are a little bigger or not, but I
> think they are just
> thicker-walled, so the tennis balls should work
> okay.
>
> Stan Specht
> Kitfox Model IV Speedster "Columbine"
Message 18
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
"That is a totally insane comment."
I don't think it is an insane comment. It is an opinion/advice based on
experience. This is one of the reasons that I read this list. To learn
from other people.
I welcome any opinion and all advice. I don't take all the advice, but I
like to think that I learn something from it all.
Randy
Message 19
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
Ya, I couldn't understand what was so "insane" either.
steve a
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Randy
Daughenbaugh
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: brakes
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh"
<rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
"That is a totally insane comment."
I don't think it is an insane comment. It is an opinion/advice based on
experience. This is one of the reasons that I read this list. To learn
from other people.
I welcome any opinion and all advice. I don't take all the advice, but I
like to think that I learn something from it all.
Randy
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Spar protection |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
I did the same but first I ran a ball of scotch bright up and down a few
times to rough up the surface then alodined before priming.
From: SOURDOSTAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spar protection
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: SOURDOSTAN@aol.com
Jim-
I treated the inside of my Model IV spars by getting some epoxy primer and
pouring it into the spars and turning the wing over and over and end to end
until I felt reasonably confident that I had treated all the inside
surfaces.
Takes two people to handle the wing. I did one spar at a time and dumped out
the
remaining primer to use in the next spar. I put tennis balls inside plastic
sandwich bags and stuffed them in the ends of the spars. I don't recall if
the
Series V spars are a little bigger or not, but I think they are just
thicker-walled, so the tennis balls should work okay.
Stan Specht
Kitfox Model IV Speedster "Columbine"
Need more speed? Get Xtra Broadband @
http://jetstream.xtra.co.nz/chm/0,,202853-1000,00.html
Message 21
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| Subject: | Tube Landing gear |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
Well, Sorry to offend anyone but no need to scare anyone out of gear by
saying get rid of it . Skystar does not seem to say get rid of it but
say that pilot error both in handling and failure to do proper
inspection is most likely the cause. Grove gear might be a great
choice but certainly replacing the tube gear is not a cure for improper
handling.
Sincerely,
Kirby
----- Original Message -----
From: <kitfox@gto.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Tube Landing gear
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
>
> Sorry but i have to defend the tube gear as I strongly feel that
there
> is little wrong with it. Grove gear I have never tried mainly
because
> the Kitfox is such a nice handing plane with tube gear. Sorry but
Tube
> gear is very good. And did you know that spring gear breaks too ?
it
> does.
>
> It was claimed that Skystar advised to change to Grove gear ?
>
>
> According to this http://www.skystar.com/Service%20Letters/sl48.htm
> It says PILOT ERROR not TUBE ERROR.
>
> This how rumors and in-correct information gets circulated by
blaming
> everything but the root of the problem.
>
> Skystar even states " It has been our experience that incorrect
> handling of the aircraft on the ground (especially during landing)
and
> poor maintenance have led to failures in a few of these gears in the
> field."
>
> and this
>
> "Prior to your next flight, we strongly recommend that you
inspect
> your landing gear carefully. Figure 2 gives some general guidelines
for
> this inspection. Begin by looking at all of the welded joints to
insure
> there are no signs of fatigue. Next, make certain all structural
> members are straight, there are no dents in any members, and the
bungee
> cords and the safety cable are not wearing or chafing on the gear
> members. The condition of the bungee should also be checked, and it
> should be replaced annually."
>
> Steve, it is hard to detect with out a trained eye for cracked welds
> and/or metal fatigue. But I would strongly feel that a broken weld
> would have shown up in a deformed or distorted gear that "could of "
> been caught possibly. Also the stance of plane could have looked a
bit
> off. Black or dark coated paint or powder coating does not help to
see
> cracks either.
>
> Was this gear new or used at the time ?
Message 22
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| Subject: | Tube Landing gear |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
Well, ok. I was a little jumpy on that one. But if you look at the service
letter, they put the blame on the exhaust hitting the pipe and corroding and
eventually bending the pipe. Their recommendation is to straight edge the
pipe and if you find it not straight that a problem is starting. Mine did
have the weld at the bungee area broken prier to braking all the way. I
will throw in also that I no longer have that messy exhaust look on my
landing gear for the Grove gear is out of hits way of the exhaust.
steve a
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
kitfox@gto.net
Subject: Kitfox-List: Tube Landing gear
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
Well, Sorry to offend anyone but no need to scare anyone out of gear by
saying get rid of it . Skystar does not seem to say get rid of it but
say that pilot error both in handling and failure to do proper
inspection is most likely the cause. Grove gear might be a great
choice but certainly replacing the tube gear is not a cure for improper
handling.
Sincerely,
Kirby
----- Original Message -----
From: <kitfox@gto.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Tube Landing gear
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
>
> Sorry but i have to defend the tube gear as I strongly feel that
there
> is little wrong with it. Grove gear I have never tried mainly
because
> the Kitfox is such a nice handing plane with tube gear. Sorry but
Tube
> gear is very good. And did you know that spring gear breaks too ?
it
> does.
>
> It was claimed that Skystar advised to change to Grove gear ?
>
>
> According to this http://www.skystar.com/Service%20Letters/sl48.htm
> It says PILOT ERROR not TUBE ERROR.
>
> This how rumors and in-correct information gets circulated by
blaming
> everything but the root of the problem.
>
> Skystar even states " It has been our experience that incorrect
> handling of the aircraft on the ground (especially during landing)
and
> poor maintenance have led to failures in a few of these gears in the
> field."
>
> and this
>
> "Prior to your next flight, we strongly recommend that you
inspect
> your landing gear carefully. Figure 2 gives some general guidelines
for
> this inspection. Begin by looking at all of the welded joints to
insure
> there are no signs of fatigue. Next, make certain all structural
> members are straight, there are no dents in any members, and the
bungee
> cords and the safety cable are not wearing or chafing on the gear
> members. The condition of the bungee should also be checked, and it
> should be replaced annually."
>
> Steve, it is hard to detect with out a trained eye for cracked welds
> and/or metal fatigue. But I would strongly feel that a broken weld
> would have shown up in a deformed or distorted gear that "could of "
> been caught possibly. Also the stance of plane could have looked a
bit
> off. Black or dark coated paint or powder coating does not help to
see
> cracks either.
>
> Was this gear new or used at the time ?
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Hard Landing, was brakes |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" <aerowood@mcsi.net>
Kurt,
The tubes bend, but I've never seen one come apart.
bh
> Second, though I like the look of the tube gear too, I
> worry about a broken tube becoming a spear poking into
> the cockpit. The steel web around the gear mounts
> should stop most of this, but not all. If you break
> the gear in a side load landing, you are being thrown
> toward the broken gear by the side load while the gear
> tube is being pushed at the cockpit.
>
> I had the same worry about the nose gear mount.
>
> Maybe I worry too much, but I have the TW with Grove
> gear instead. Now if I can just learn to land it...
> :-)
>
> Kurt S. S-5
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Hard Landing, was brakes |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "david yeamans" <dafox@ckt.net>
At some degree of a hard landing something is going to "BUST" whether it
be tube/spring gear, mounting brackets, motor mounts, muffler, etc.
Again, this is not a gear issue but something that I wonder about.
Don Smythe
Classic IV w/ 582
----- Original Message -----
From: AlbertaIV@aol.com
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 7:08 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Hard Landing, was brakes
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
<<almost 1200 lbs fell to the ground and bounced 10 ft back into the air. I
did a go around and landed from the other direction with no problem. I
checked my tube gears with a manifying glass and there was not a sign of a
crack.>>
Don, That hard landing was three years ago. Recently I've been letting my
240
lb brother do some take off and landings, and believe me some of those landings
were not very smooth. I agree with you that something should have broken from
such a hard landing, other than a cracked seat. While I was building my
Kitfox.
4 or 5 years ago, I seen some pictures of the results of hard landings that had
bent
the front cross member under the seat. It was obvious that the safety cable
didn't
have enough slack, with a hard landing it would bottom out and take the cross
member
with it. I think Skystar recomended 4 1/2 inches of slack, I Put 6 inches
of slack
and beefed up the cross member with some vertical tubing where the weak points
were. I think this was a precaution that saved some damage on my IV 1200.
N317DY IV 1200 912 David
Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: Tube Landing gear |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
Ok guys, rather than to contest the spring gear vs the tube gear, I'm going
to say anyone with a Model IV should automatically replace their tube gears
with a spring gear just to be safe. Then, mail your old gear to me at:
Paul Seehafer
4411 Cty Rd E
Junction City, WI 54443
I will make sure they are recycled properly.
(Hey, just think how many bad landings I would be able to make...)
Ok, Ok..... I'm just kidding. Well, kind of. If anyone has an old gear
they are going to replace I would love to have a spare gear for my Model IV
as I could use a spare gear. My original gear has seen some better days,
and I'm starting to wonder about it after all this conversation. So don't
toss your old gear in the garbage!
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: <customtrans@qwest.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Tube Landing gear
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
>
> Well, ok. I was a little jumpy on that one. But if you look at the
> service
> letter, they put the blame on the exhaust hitting the pipe and corroding
> and
> eventually bending the pipe. Their recommendation is to straight edge the
> pipe and if you find it not straight that a problem is starting. Mine did
> have the weld at the bungee area broken prier to braking all the way. I
> will throw in also that I no longer have that messy exhaust look on my
> landing gear for the Grove gear is out of hits way of the exhaust.
>
> steve a
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> kitfox@gto.net
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Tube Landing gear
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
>
> Well, Sorry to offend anyone but no need to scare anyone out of gear by
> saying get rid of it . Skystar does not seem to say get rid of it but
> say that pilot error both in handling and failure to do proper
> inspection is most likely the cause. Grove gear might be a great
> choice but certainly replacing the tube gear is not a cure for improper
> handling.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Kirby
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <kitfox@gto.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Tube Landing gear
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
>>
>> Sorry but i have to defend the tube gear as I strongly feel that
> there
>> is little wrong with it. Grove gear I have never tried mainly
> because
>> the Kitfox is such a nice handing plane with tube gear. Sorry but
> Tube
>> gear is very good. And did you know that spring gear breaks too ?
> it
>> does.
>>
>> It was claimed that Skystar advised to change to Grove gear ?
>>
>>
>> According to this http://www.skystar.com/Service%20Letters/sl48.htm
>> It says PILOT ERROR not TUBE ERROR.
>>
>> This how rumors and in-correct information gets circulated by
> blaming
>> everything but the root of the problem.
>>
>> Skystar even states " It has been our experience that incorrect
>> handling of the aircraft on the ground (especially during landing)
> and
>> poor maintenance have led to failures in a few of these gears in the
>> field."
>>
>> and this
>>
>> "Prior to your next flight, we strongly recommend that you
> inspect
>> your landing gear carefully. Figure 2 gives some general guidelines
> for
>> this inspection. Begin by looking at all of the welded joints to
> insure
>> there are no signs of fatigue. Next, make certain all structural
>> members are straight, there are no dents in any members, and the
> bungee
>> cords and the safety cable are not wearing or chafing on the gear
>> members. The condition of the bungee should also be checked, and it
>> should be replaced annually."
>>
>> Steve, it is hard to detect with out a trained eye for cracked welds
>> and/or metal fatigue. But I would strongly feel that a broken weld
>> would have shown up in a deformed or distorted gear that "could of "
>> been caught possibly. Also the stance of plane could have looked a
> bit
>> off. Black or dark coated paint or powder coating does not help to
> see
>> cracks either.
>>
>> Was this gear new or used at the time ?
>
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | New England Flyers |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Mike Tode" <mhteck@charter.net>
Hi Everyone!
My wife and I will be out in the Exeter, New Hampshire area next week. Anyone in
that area that we could say hi to? Let me know.
M.H.Tode
MHTECK@CHARTER.NET
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Jabiru Wood Prop For Sale |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
I have a Jabiru 60X42 wood prop for sale. Designed for the 2200. It's
in excellant condition with less than 10 hours TT. I'm asking $400 +
ship.
(661) 256-1897
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Hard Landing, was brakes |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan Daniels <aldaniels@fmtc.com>
I once saw the extremely strong jackscrew landing gear of a C-130 shoved
up through its mounts. Anything can be busted. Our group has wiped out
two Grove gears so far. They are great, they are wider and more stable,
but they are heavy and expensive. Everything is a compromise on
airplanes. If you like it , enjoy and be happy. You have to be careful
with either.
Alan
david yeamans wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "david yeamans" <dafox@ckt.net>
>
>At some degree of a hard landing something is going to "BUST" whether it
>be tube/spring gear, mounting brackets, motor mounts, muffler, etc.
> Again, this is not a gear issue but something that I wonder about.
>
>
>Don Smythe
>Classic IV w/ 582
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: AlbertaIV@aol.com
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 7:08 AM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Hard Landing, was brakes
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
>
> <<almost 1200 lbs fell to the ground and bounced 10 ft back into the air. I
> did a go around and landed from the other direction with no problem. I
> checked my tube gears with a manifying glass and there was not a sign of a
> crack.>>
>
>
> Don, That hard landing was three years ago. Recently I've been letting
my 240
> lb brother do some take off and landings, and believe me some of those landings
> were not very smooth. I agree with you that something should have broken from
> such a hard landing, other than a cracked seat. While I was building my
Kitfox.
> 4 or 5 years ago, I seen some pictures of the results of hard landings that
had bent
> the front cross member under the seat. It was obvious that the safety cable
didn't
> have enough slack, with a hard landing it would bottom out and take the cross
member
> with it. I think Skystar recomended 4 1/2 inches of slack, I Put 6 inches
of slack
> and beefed up the cross member with some vertical tubing where the weak points
> were. I think this was a precaution that saved some damage on my IV 1200.
> N317DY IV 1200 912 David
>
>
> Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
>
>
>
>
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