Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:18 AM - spring vs tube gear (Fox5flyer)
2. 04:51 AM - Re: Hard Landing, was brakes (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
3. 06:32 AM - Re: spring vs tube gear (Tony Clark)
4. 08:10 AM - Re: Hard Landing, was brakes (Jimmie Blackwell)
5. 08:17 AM - Re: a real true story.... (joakley@ida.net)
6. 08:31 AM - Re: a real true story.... (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
7. 09:50 AM - who wanted a 100 dollar burger? (kitfox@gto.net)
8. 09:53 AM - Re: a real true story.... (customtrans@qwest.net)
9. 10:14 AM - Re: Hard Landing, was brakes (Alan Daniels)
10. 10:29 AM - Re: Hard Landing, was brakes (AlbertaIV@AOL.COM)
11. 10:36 AM - Grove Gear Failure on KFV (Harris, Robert)
12. 10:58 AM - Re: Hard Landing, was brakes (jdmcbean)
13. 11:17 AM - wheels and tires (customtrans@qwest.net)
14. 12:07 PM - Grove gear failure (Harris, Robert)
15. 12:20 PM - Re: a real true story.... (Richard Hutson)
16. 12:53 PM - Re: who wanted a 100 dollar burger? (joakley@ida.net)
17. 12:57 PM - Re: Hard Landing, was brakes (joakley@ida.net)
18. 01:29 PM - Re: wheels and tires (AlbertaIV@AOL.COM)
19. 01:48 PM - Oil Cooler Question (Donna and Roger McConnell)
20. 02:48 PM - Re: Oil Cooler Question (Alan Daniels)
21. 03:10 PM - Grove Gear & Back To Nome (robert.mcclintock)
22. 04:06 PM - Re: Grove Gear & Back To Nome (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
23. 04:06 PM - Re: who wanted a 100 dollar burger? (Tim Kaser)
24. 04:36 PM - Re: Oil Cooler Question (jdmcbean)
25. 04:50 PM - Re: Hard Landing, was brakes (kurt schrader)
26. 06:03 PM - Re: Oil Cooler Question ()
27. 06:13 PM - Re: Oil Cooler Question (jdmcbean)
28. 08:01 PM - Re: Oil Cooler Question (Donna and Roger McConnell)
29. 09:57 PM - Re: Question on Model IV gross (Clint Bazzill)
30. 10:07 PM - 100 dollar burger? (hausding, sid)
Message 1
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| Subject: | spring vs tube gear |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
That says it all.
I put almost 400 hours on tube gear with some landings that would knock the
fillings out of somebody's teeth, but fortunately no side loads. My current
S5 has the spring gear only because it came in the package. It works fine,
but very heavy. As for stability, I don't feel it's much better than the
tube gear was. Overall about the only real big advantage of the spring gear
(in my opinion) is there is no need to be changing bungies.
Deke
> I once saw the extremely strong jackscrew landing gear of a C-130 shoved
> up through its mounts. Anything can be busted. Our group has wiped out
> two Grove gears so far. They are great, they are wider and more stable,
> but they are heavy and expensive. Everything is a compromise on
> airplanes. If you like it , enjoy and be happy. You have to be careful
> with either.
>
> Alan
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Hard Landing, was brakes |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 4/28/2005 9:58:45 PM Eastern Standard Time,
aerowood@mcsi.net writes:
Kurt,
The tubes bend, but I've never seen one come apart.
bh
I have. He was once a list member. His gear and fuselage had been abused a
couple times. Once John King picked me up at a little airport in Virginia
and there sat the old Fox with it's right gear broke off and sitting on a
jack. It finally broke and collapsed on landing.
Don Smythe
Classic IV w/ 582
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: spring vs tube gear |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tony Clark <funflyer1959@yahoo.com>
i read all the messages, never responding, til now. i own deke's old model 2 which
he is bragging about. it now has almost 700 hours on it and on its 4th owner
(me). the tube gear is still going strong. i did a very detailed inspection
of the gear during the last annual, replacing the bungee at the same time.
this is what the Skystar AD says to do. INSPECT closely, which i do for each
preflight.
i agree with what i believe is the general consensus here..... anything can be
broken. but just because it can be, doesn't necessarily mean it must be replaced.
how many kitfox owners plan to replace their wing spars? if you dive the
plane at 160 mph, it'll break. but common sense tells you not to do that....
similar with the landing gear....if you abuse it, sure, it might break. be
it a tube gear or spring gear. my point..... you are flying a machine made up
of compromises. no plane will ever be designed that can do everything for everyone.
as an aside, i have a flying buddy with a single seat adventura. he's on his 12th
landing gear over 4 years. not that his gear is weak, but by his own admission,
he's an old fart with poor depth perception and drops his (heavier than
it should be) plane in occasionally from about 8 feet. so he has a buddy (me)
who makes him up a spare set of the 1 1/8" x 18" tubes he keeps bending. similar
to the ongoing kitfox conversation, sure, he could beaf up his gear......
but at what cost. so that the damage from his rotten landings his transfered
to his fuselage instead of his gear? and i know i guy who punched his Van's
RV8 gear thru the fuselage too, because of bad landing. XXit happens.
everything is a compromise and each of us chooses the comfort level we can tolerate
with those compromises.
Fox5flyer <morid@northland.lib.mi.us> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer"
That says it all.
I put almost 400 hours on tube gear with some landings that would knock the
fillings out of somebody's teeth, but fortunately no side loads. My current
S5 has the spring gear only because it came in the package. It works fine,
but very heavy. As for stability, I don't feel it's much better than the
tube gear was. Overall about the only real big advantage of the spring gear
(in my opinion) is there is no need to be changing bungies.
Deke
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Hard Landing, was brakes |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" <jablackwell@ev1.net>
Alan
I changed to the Grove gear and really like it. Would appreciate you
sharing some of the details of the Grove gear failures.
BTW, I did not think the C-130 could be broken. I have a lot of passenger
hours in the C-130 and always felt very safe.
Jimmie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Daniels" <aldaniels@fmtc.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Hard Landing, was brakes
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan Daniels <aldaniels@fmtc.com>
>
> I once saw the extremely strong jackscrew landing gear of a C-130 shoved
> up through its mounts. Anything can be busted. Our group has wiped out
> two Grove gears so far. They are great, they are wider and more stable,
> but they are heavy and expensive. Everything is a compromise on
> airplanes. If you like it , enjoy and be happy. You have to be careful
> with either.
>
> Alan
>
> david yeamans wrote:
>
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "david yeamans" <dafox@ckt.net>
> >
> >At some degree of a hard landing something is going to "BUST" whether it
> >be tube/spring gear, mounting brackets, motor mounts, muffler, etc.
> > Again, this is not a gear issue but something that I wonder about.
> >
> >
> >Don Smythe
> >Classic IV w/ 582
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: AlbertaIV@aol.com
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 7:08 AM
> > Subject: Kitfox-List: Hard Landing, was brakes
> >
> >
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
> >
> >
> > <<almost 1200 lbs fell to the ground and bounced 10 ft back into the
air. I
> > did a go around and landed from the other direction with no problem.
I
> > checked my tube gears with a manifying glass and there was not a sign
of a
> > crack.>>
> >
> >
> > Don, That hard landing was three years ago. Recently I've been
letting my 240
> > lb brother do some take off and landings, and believe me some of those
landings
> > were not very smooth. I agree with you that something should have
broken from
> > such a hard landing, other than a cracked seat. While I was
building my Kitfox.
> > 4 or 5 years ago, I seen some pictures of the results of hard landings
that had bent
> > the front cross member under the seat. It was obvious that the safety
cable didn't
> > have enough slack, with a hard landing it would bottom out and take the
cross member
> > with it. I think Skystar recomended 4 1/2 inches of slack, I Put
6 inches of slack
> > and beefed up the cross member with some vertical tubing where the
weak points
> > were. I think this was a precaution that saved some damage on my IV
1200.
> > N317DY IV 1200 912
David
> >
> >
> > Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: a real true story.... |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: joakley@ida.net
Richard,
sorry, Tim and my writing have bee a bit on the personal side. no value to
the group but we have tried several times to get the group going on prop
discussions and several other things.
On the other hand we managed to flushout the famous John Kurr of Logan UT.
Although I have been to his hanger several times and to his field a dozen
times I have never seen him. I believe he spends most of his time on the
golf course, he may not really have a plane, he probably drinks tea and
eats caviar, not burgers at all.
Tim, who is relatively new on the list is rebuilding a model 4 that I was
in last year when it went for a off field trip, with out guidance. He is
turning the plane into a fancy cruiser that will make my plane look sick,
and my plane was voted the most expensive kitfox ever.
All for fun, my pane has been grounded for 7 month and I am going stir crazy.
John Oakley
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: a real true story.... |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
I recieve Idaho Red Necks on the second Tuesday of each month. Others are welcome
anytime. Even met and flew with "Barefoot" from Colorado...
John Kerr
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: joakley@ida.net
>
> Richard,
> sorry, Tim and my writing have bee a bit on the personal side. no value to
> the group but we have tried several times to get the group going on prop
> discussions and several other things.
> On the other hand we managed to flushout the famous John Kurr of Logan UT.
> Although I have been to his hanger several times and to his field a dozen
> times I have never seen him. I believe he spends most of his time on the
> golf course, he may not really have a plane, he probably drinks tea and
> eats caviar, not burgers at all.
> Tim, who is relatively new on the list is rebuilding a model 4 that I was
> in last year when it went for a off field trip, with out guidance. He is
> turning the plane into a fancy cruiser that will make my plane look sick,
> and my plane was voted the most expensive kitfox ever.
>
> All for fun, my pane has been grounded for 7 month and I am going stir crazy.
>
> John Oakley
>
>
>
>
>
>
I recieve Idaho Red Necks on the second Tuesday of each month. Others are welcome
anytime. Even met and flew with "Barefoot" from Colorado...
John Kerr
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: joakley@ida.net
Richard,
sorry, Tim and my writing have bee a bit on the personal side. no value to
the group but we have tried several times to get the group going on prop
discussions and several other things.
On the other hand we managed to flushout the famous John Kurr of Logan UT.
Although I have been to his hanger several times and to his field a dozen
times I have never seen him. I believe he spends most of his time on the
golf course, he may not really have a plane, he probably drinks tea and
eats caviar, not burgers at all.
Tim, who is relatively new on the list is rebuilding a model 4 that I was
in last year when it went for a off field trip, with out guidance. He is
tu
rning the plane into a fancy cruiser that will make my plane look sick,
and my plane was voted the most expensive kitfox ever.
All for fun, my pane has been grounded for 7 month and I am going stir crazy.
John Oakley
Message 7
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| Subject: | who wanted a 100 dollar burger? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
Here you go http://www.100dollarhamburger.com/
Surely no one took that literally ?
If so the burgers are cheap it just gettin there :)
Kirby
Message 8
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| Subject: | a real true story.... |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
John,
I know how you feel, I was out for 6 months.
steve a
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
joakley@ida.net
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: a real true story....
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: joakley@ida.net
Richard,
sorry, Tim and my writing have bee a bit on the personal side. no value to
the group but we have tried several times to get the group going on prop
discussions and several other things.
On the other hand we managed to flushout the famous John Kurr of Logan UT.
Although I have been to his hanger several times and to his field a dozen
times I have never seen him. I believe he spends most of his time on the
golf course, he may not really have a plane, he probably drinks tea and
eats caviar, not burgers at all.
Tim, who is relatively new on the list is rebuilding a model 4 that I was
in last year when it went for a off field trip, with out guidance. He is
turning the plane into a fancy cruiser that will make my plane look sick,
and my plane was voted the most expensive kitfox ever.
All for fun, my pane has been grounded for 7 month and I am going stir
crazy.
John Oakley
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Hard Landing, was brakes |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan Daniels <aldaniels@fmtc.com>
The Grove gear failures were NOT the fault of the gear, rather
unfortunate combination of things that caused loss of control and
serious impact, one straight down so hard it hit the transponder antenna
on the bottom, and one side impact that folded one leg under. The good
part is that neither pilot was hurt, which is all that is important. The
way I look at it is if we never break anything we wouldn't have anything
to fix. What fun would that be, besides we would not have all these war
stories to lie about.
A C-130 is about as tough as a dump truck. I saw one that hit a large
bulldozer on takeoff tearing off the ramp and other parts. The plane
flew on back to home base. I saw one that hit a bomb crater that tore it
all to heck and one that was very hard landed that shoved the gear up
level with the bottom of the plane. Again no serious injures in any of
them that I know of. The last C-130 that I crew chiefed had bullet holes
in it no end. It even had a hole were a mortar had gone through a flap.
I even saw one hit a deer on landing one day. It bent in the clam shell
door on one of the mains and blew a tire sending it off into a ditch. We
just jacked it up, put a new tire on it, repaired the door and they flew
it the next day. It seems like all that was back in another time and
world. Life is good. The Kitfox is just for fun. Enjoy
Alan
Jimmie Blackwell wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" <jablackwell@ev1.net>
>
>Alan
>
>I changed to the Grove gear and really like it. Would appreciate you
>sharing some of the details of the Grove gear failures.
>
>BTW, I did not think the C-130 could be broken. I have a lot of passenger
>hours in the C-130 and always felt very safe.
>
>Jimmie
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Alan Daniels" <aldaniels@fmtc.com>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Hard Landing, was brakes
>
>
>
>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan Daniels <aldaniels@fmtc.com>
>>
>>I once saw the extremely strong jackscrew landing gear of a C-130 shoved
>>up through its mounts. Anything can be busted. Our group has wiped out
>>two Grove gears so far. They are great, they are wider and more stable,
>>but they are heavy and expensive. Everything is a compromise on
>>airplanes. If you like it , enjoy and be happy. You have to be careful
>>with either.
>>
>>Alan
>>
>>david yeamans wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "david yeamans" <dafox@ckt.net>
>>>
>>>At some degree of a hard landing something is going to "BUST" whether it
>>>be tube/spring gear, mounting brackets, motor mounts, muffler, etc.
>>> Again, this is not a gear issue but something that I wonder about.
>>>
>>>
>>>Don Smythe
>>>Classic IV w/ 582
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 7:08 AM
>>> Subject: Kitfox-List: Hard Landing, was brakes
>>>
>>>
>>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>>>
>>>
>>> <<almost 1200 lbs fell to the ground and bounced 10 ft back into the
>>>
>>>
>air. I
>
>
>>> did a go around and landed from the other direction with no problem.
>>>
>>>
>I
>
>
>>> checked my tube gears with a manifying glass and there was not a sign
>>>
>>>
>of a
>
>
>>> crack.>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Don, That hard landing was three years ago. Recently I've been
>>>
>>>
>letting my 240
>
>
>>> lb brother do some take off and landings, and believe me some of those
>>>
>>>
>landings
>
>
>>> were not very smooth. I agree with you that something should have
>>>
>>>
>broken from
>
>
>>> such a hard landing, other than a cracked seat. While I was
>>>
>>>
>building my Kitfox.
>
>
>>> 4 or 5 years ago, I seen some pictures of the results of hard landings
>>>
>>>
>that had bent
>
>
>>> the front cross member under the seat. It was obvious that the safety
>>>
>>>
>cable didn't
>
>
>>> have enough slack, with a hard landing it would bottom out and take the
>>>
>>>
>cross member
>
>
>>> with it. I think Skystar recomended 4 1/2 inches of slack, I Put
>>>
>>>
>6 inches of slack
>
>
>>> and beefed up the cross member with some vertical tubing where the
>>>
>>>
>weak points
>
>
>>> were. I think this was a precaution that saved some damage on my IV
>>>
>>>
>1200.
>
>
>>> N317DY IV 1200 912
>>>
>>>
>David
>
>
>>> Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Hard Landing, was brakes |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 4/29/2005 1:15:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,
aldaniels@fmtc.com writes:
The Grove gear failures were NOT the fault of the gear, rather
unfortunate combination of things that caused loss of control and
serious impact, one straight
I'm curious, do you happen to know if Grove replaced the gears at "no" cost.
I've heard that Grove gives such a guarantee even if Pilot error. Please
don't quote this guarantee. Just curious.
Don Smythe
Classic IV w/ 582
Message 11
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| Subject: | Grove Gear Failure on KFV |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
On a Kitfox V the bolts that attach the wheel to the Grove gear can break
when put under a side load, such as a ground loop. The end result is the
wheel will come off and the spring gear will bend. Apparently Grove is aware
of this because when this information was told to the gal at Grove her reply
was "Oh Yes."
Can bigger bolts be used to attach the wheels to the Grove Gear?
Robert
Message 12
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| Subject: | Hard Landing, was brakes |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
As a dealer for Grove there is small cost to straighten the gear if it can
be straightened. Most the time it can be. I have not heard of the wheel
bolts breaking although I suppose it could happen. I have seen the gear
rolled under with the wheel still attached though.
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
AlbertaIV@aol.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Hard Landing, was brakes
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 4/29/2005 1:15:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,
aldaniels@fmtc.com writes:
The Grove gear failures were NOT the fault of the gear, rather
unfortunate combination of things that caused loss of control and
serious impact, one straight
I'm curious, do you happen to know if Grove replaced the gears at "no"
cost.
I've heard that Grove gives such a guarantee even if Pilot error. Please
don't quote this guarantee. Just curious.
Don Smythe
Classic IV w/ 582
Message 13
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| Subject: | wheels and tires |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
Has anybody put 500X5 tires & wheels on the Kitfox?
steve a
Message 14
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| Subject: | Grove gear failure |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
On a Kitfox V the bolts that attach the wheel to the Grove gear can break
when put under a side load, such as a ground loop. The end result is the
wheel will come off and the spring gear will bend. Apparently Grove is aware
of this because when this information was told to the gal at Grove her reply
was "Oh Yes."
Can bigger bolts be used to attach the wheels to the Grove Gear?
Robert
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: a real true story.... |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Hutson" <rhutson@midsouth.rr.com>
I just wish I had a plane, and knew how to fly it. But that will come in
time, I just don't know how much time.
What did you do to make your plane so expensive, where are the pictures?
>
> All for fun, my pane has been grounded for 7 month and I am going stir
> crazy.
>
> John Oakley
>DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: who wanted a 100 dollar burger? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: joakley@ida.net
WOW Kirby,
that is the best web site. If I entered all of those in the flight planner
I could set it up to never miss a food joint on a cross country. Hmmm.. I
wonder why I am over weight?
John Oakely
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
>
> Here you go http://www.100dollarhamburger.com/
>
> Surely no one took that literally ?
> If so the burgers are cheap it just gettin there :)
>
>
> Kirby
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Hard Landing, was brakes |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: joakley@ida.net
On the model 4 that I was in last year, the wheel folded clear under the
seat and grove straightened it with little cost.
John Oakley
> In a message dated 4/29/2005 1:15:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> aldaniels@fmtc.com writes:
>
>
> The Grove gear failures were NOT the fault of the gear, rather
> unfortunate combination of things that caused loss of control and
> serious impact, one straight
>
>
> I'm curious, do you happen to know if Grove replaced the gears at "no"
> cost.
> I've heard that Grove gives such a guarantee even if Pilot error.
> Please
> don't quote this guarantee. Just curious.
>
> Don Smythe
> Classic IV w/ 582
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: wheels and tires |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 4/29/2005 2:19:42 PM Eastern Standard Time,
customtrans@qwest.net writes:
Has anybody put 500X5 tires & wheels on the Kitfox?
steve a
Yes, with the Grove gear drilled for Cleveland wheels. Been in several
grass strips with no problems. I have never landed on bare/raw fields.
Don Smythe
Classic IV w/ 582
Message 19
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| Subject: | Oil Cooler Question |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Donna and Roger McConnell" <rdmac@swbell.net>
Here is another question for you Rotax 912S owners. How necessary is it to
run an oil cooler? The build manual calls it an option but just how optional
is it? There is no one around here who is running a Rotax engine for me to
ask. I would suspect that anywhere in the lower 48 states one should use an
oil cooler. Here in Oklahoma it should be required but I would still like
some opinions.
Roger Mac
S7/912S
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Cooler Question |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan Daniels <aldaniels@fmtc.com>
In my opinion it is not optional in the lower 48. If you fly when it is
cold you want some way to control the temp. I have had good luck with a
oil thermostat. A cowl flap seems like a good idea so you can control
water temp also but have not tried yet. In both my 7's and all the 7's I
have flown the water- head temps are just fine. So good that it is not
even close to needing the waterless coolant. The one problem that I have
seen is routing of the water hoses has been a problem. I went to molded
hoses with the correct bends in them to avoid a crimp that cuts off
water, and to avoid the exhaust from being too close on the left rear.
Alan
Donna and Roger McConnell wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Donna and Roger McConnell" <rdmac@swbell.net>
>
>Here is another question for you Rotax 912S owners. How necessary is it to
>run an oil cooler? The build manual calls it an option but just how optional
>is it? There is no one around here who is running a Rotax engine for me to
>ask. I would suspect that anywhere in the lower 48 states one should use an
>oil cooler. Here in Oklahoma it should be required but I would still like
>some opinions.
>
> Roger Mac
>
> S7/912S
>
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Grove Gear & Back To Nome |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "robert.mcclintock" <robert.mcclintock@sbcglobal.net>
Yea, I'm still lurking about and thought I'd chime in on the Grove gear thread.
As you may well know, I "looped" the "Arctic Fox" (S-5) in a strong X-wind last
June in Nome.
The west blast of wind unlocked my tailwheel and, well it was a hell of a ride
and nobody lost an eye.
The left leg of my Grove gear was bent inboard pretty good (bad) but the axle bolts
all held.(Tailwheel bolts were another story, lost them)
My A&P mechanic told me that under that severe of a side load that tube gear probably
would have not made it and I might still be healing up from the broken
parts coming up through the floorboards & into my favorite body parts. (OH NO!!)
Grove was able to repair my legs (no cost) for shipping only. They do charge some
now, but they certainly do stand behind their products. (plug for John)
To be on the safe side, I replaced all the mounting bolts to include the axle bolts.
Anyway, if I were building another plane (KitFox or other) I'd certainly consider
the Grove gear over tubes.
I know a lot of you swear by your tube gear, but the advantages of the wider, stronger,
(virtually) maintenance free Grove shouldn't be dismissed. Not a whole
lot of checking required in pre-flight either.
Well, I'm off to Nome for the season next Tuesday A.M. I really hate that loooong
flight with Alaska Airlines but looking forward to a busy surveying season
and plan on doing some flying with my son to the villages in the "Arctic Fox".
I'll chime in from time to time as my schedule allows but for now, I'm outta
here till then. I hope to meet you guys planning on flying up this summer. Have
a safe trip and fun will be had. I hope my schedule will allow me to accompany
you back "down south". My address & phone number is here for those interested.
R. Scott McClintock, Sr., PLS
P.O. Box 1444
Nome, Alaska 99762
(907) 443-6068 V/F
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Grove Gear & Back To Nome |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 4/29/2005 6:11:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
robert.mcclintock@sbcglobal.net writes:
The left leg of my Grove gear was bent inboard pretty good (bad) but the
axle bolts all held.(Tailwheel bolts were another story, lost them)
Excellent report. On the subject of the tail wheel bolts. I assume you are
talking about the two bolts on either side of the spring that prevent side
to side motion. When I mounted my Grove tail spring I noticed I had enough
room on either side to enlarge the holes on the straps and go to a one size
larger bolt. Worked great with almost a machine fit. Might help in standing
up
to a ground loop (to a point)
Don Smythe
Classic IV w/ 582
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: who wanted a 100 dollar burger? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tim Kaser <kaser@cableone.net>
John
You should self limit yourself to one (1) $100 burger per day. This is
because each burger stop must be savored for its culinary uniqueness and
the local establishments demeanor which includes the serving staff.
Otherwise you would be short changing yourself of each burgers full
impact. These stops may take 2-3 hours to complete (not counting
enroute flight time). This limitation also has the desired effect of
reducing your weight by keeping you in the air more than in the kitchen.
You may find it necessary to execute a holding pattern while I sample
the burger stop cuisine. However, soda stops are completely different.
Short and to the point, they compliment and are easily coupled with the
necessary pit stop. Soda stops also have the added claim that they are
cheaper. only $97. If needed, a fuel stop option may also be exercised.
This might seriously bust your budget and cause you to forgo the burger
again. Which begs the question, Is there a web site listing all the
$97 soda pop stops? Tofu anyone?
Tim Kaser -- I do enjoy being enlightened and the $100 burger list is....
joakley@ida.net wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: joakley@ida.net
>
>WOW Kirby,
>that is the best web site. If I entered all of those in the flight planner
>I could set it up to never miss a food joint on a cross country. Hmmm.. I
>wonder why I am over weight?
>
>John Oakely
>
>
>
>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
>>
>>Here you go http://www.100dollarhamburger.com/
>>
>>Surely no one took that literally ?
>>If so the burgers are cheap it just gettin there :)
>>
>>
>>Kirby
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Oil Cooler Question |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Roger,
The 912S engine requires an oil cooler. I offer an all aluminum
race cooler that has proven itself well. I operate it with a thermostat so
it helps to keep the temps up in the winter and yet has the capacity to keep
the oil temps down in the Arizona heat.
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Donna and Roger
McConnell
Subject: Kitfox-List: Oil Cooler Question
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Donna and Roger McConnell"
<rdmac@swbell.net>
Here is another question for you Rotax 912S owners. How necessary is it to
run an oil cooler? The build manual calls it an option but just how optional
is it? There is no one around here who is running a Rotax engine for me to
ask. I would suspect that anywhere in the lower 48 states one should use an
oil cooler. Here in Oklahoma it should be required but I would still like
some opinions.
Roger Mac
S7/912S
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Hard Landing, was brakes |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
This didn't happen to be on Okinawa, did it Alan?
kurt s. Old KC-130 pilot
do not archive
--- Alan Daniels <aldaniels@fmtc.com> wrote:
>
> I once saw the extremely strong jackscrew landing
> gear of a C-130 shoved
> up through its mounts.
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Cooler Question |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: <gjglh@cebridge.net>
Roger,
When I got my 912 it had no oil cooler!! Temps seem to run a little high in
the summer months. I like to keep my oil at 200. When I added the oil cooler
I couldn't get the oil temp hot enough. If you remember I added the Oil
diffuser valve below the oil cooler. This lets me bypass some of the Oil. I
have complete control of my oil temps. You can see the Diffuser om the
skystar mod. page. Sid used the same set-up on his 912.
Gary
912LS Weatherford OK
On Fri Apr 29 16:48 , 'Donna and Roger McConnell' <rdmac@swbell.net> sent:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Donna and Roger McConnell"
rdmac@swbell.net>
>
>Here is another question for you Rotax 912S owners. How necessary is it to
>run an oil cooler? The build manual calls it an option but just how optional
>is it? There is no one around here who is running a Rotax engine for me to
>ask. I would suspect that anywhere in the lower 48 states one should use an
>oil cooler. Here in Oklahoma it should be required but I would still like
>some opinions.
>
> Roger Mac
>
> S7/912S
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Oil Cooler Question |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Lets make sure we are talking 912 or 912S... I have not heard of a 912S that
runs cool without the oil cooler. However, I know of several 912 UL that
have run without oil coolers and the ones that have oil coolers tend to run
too cool. Easier to manage one that runs too cool. Just my opinion....
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
gjglh@cebridge.net
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Oil Cooler Question
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: <gjglh@cebridge.net>
Roger,
When I got my 912 it had no oil cooler!! Temps seem to run a little high in
the summer months. I like to keep my oil at 200. When I added the oil cooler
I couldn't get the oil temp hot enough. If you remember I added the Oil
diffuser valve below the oil cooler. This lets me bypass some of the Oil. I
have complete control of my oil temps. You can see the Diffuser om the
skystar mod. page. Sid used the same set-up on his 912.
Gary
912LS Weatherford OK
On Fri Apr 29 16:48 , 'Donna and Roger McConnell' <rdmac@swbell.net> sent:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Donna and Roger McConnell"
rdmac@swbell.net>
>
>Here is another question for you Rotax 912S owners. How necessary is it to
>run an oil cooler? The build manual calls it an option but just how
optional
>is it? There is no one around here who is running a Rotax engine for me to
>ask. I would suspect that anywhere in the lower 48 states one should use an
>oil cooler. Here in Oklahoma it should be required but I would still like
>some opinions.
>
> Roger Mac
>
> S7/912S
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Oil Cooler Question |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Donna and Roger McConnell" <rdmac@swbell.net>
Gary,
Yes I do remember your set up. I still have pictures of it. I tend
to agree with John. I want to keep my 912s cool because I will be flying
more in the spring and summer than in the fall and winter, unless I install
cabin heat. Thanks for the advice.
Roger Mac
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jdmcbean
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Oil Cooler Question
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Lets make sure we are talking 912 or 912S... I have not heard of a 912S that
runs cool without the oil cooler. However, I know of several 912 UL that
have run without oil coolers and the ones that have oil coolers tend to run
too cool. Easier to manage one that runs too cool. Just my opinion....
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
gjglh@cebridge.net
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Oil Cooler Question
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: <gjglh@cebridge.net>
Roger,
When I got my 912 it had no oil cooler!! Temps seem to run a little high in
the summer months. I like to keep my oil at 200. When I added the oil cooler
I couldn't get the oil temp hot enough. If you remember I added the Oil
diffuser valve below the oil cooler. This lets me bypass some of the Oil. I
have complete control of my oil temps. You can see the Diffuser om the
skystar mod. page. Sid used the same set-up on his 912.
Gary
912LS Weatherford OK
On Fri Apr 29 16:48 , 'Donna and Roger McConnell' <rdmac@swbell.net> sent:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Donna and Roger McConnell"
rdmac@swbell.net>
>
>Here is another question for you Rotax 912S owners. How necessary is it to
>run an oil cooler? The build manual calls it an option but just how
optional
>is it? There is no one around here who is running a Rotax engine for me to
>ask. I would suspect that anywhere in the lower 48 states one should use an
>oil cooler. Here in Oklahoma it should be required but I would still like
>some opinions.
>
> Roger Mac
>
> S7/912S
>
>
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: Question on Model IV gross |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clint Bazzill" <clint_bazzill@hotmail.com>
If you put them side by side, you will see a lot of structure difference.
You couldn't in my opinion make a 1200 lb out of a 1050. Clint
From: "Paul Peerenboom" <ppeerenbo@charter.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Question on Model IV gross
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Peerenboom" <ppeerenbo@charter.net>
I have #1735 and its gross weight is 1200lbs but I am told it is not a true
classic its just a heavy IV
----- Original Message -----
From: <kitfox@gto.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Question on Model IV gross
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
>
> Can some one post or email me the Differances of the Kitfox IV 1050
> gross versus the 1200 Gross.
>
> What Exactly is the differances?
>
> I think i read some where the Struts and spar tubes were larger.
>
> I have a Kitfox with a serial number very close to the #1725 serial and
> i think that is where they changed to the classic IV.
>
> Any help would be appreciated, and any other Kitfox Flyers in Ontario
> west of Toronto?
>
>
> Thank you ,
>
> Kitfox
>
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | 100 dollar burger? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "hausding, sid" <sidh@charter.net>
whoa, this guy is good. New and refreshing differences from the 'old hole
in the wing' or the 'bent gear'.............somebody send this guy a years
free subscription to the kfox list...................or the Avid one. We
could use some enlightenment there too.............. :-)
Seriously, keep the stuff coming, its new, fresh, and funny. Something the
kfox list has left out over the last six months.............
He haa............
Sid
Avid
Speedwing insolence is cheap! do not
archive, read, or repeat
-----------------------------------------------
John
You should self limit yourself to one (1) $100 burger per day. This is
because each burger stop must be savored for its culinary uniqueness and
the local establishments demeanor which includes the serving staff.
Otherwise you would be short changing yourself of each burgers full
impact. These stops may take 2-3 hours to complete (not counting
enroute flight time). This limitation also has the desired effect of
reducing your weight by keeping you in the air more than in the kitchen.
You may find it necessary to execute a holding pattern while I sample
the burger stop cuisine. However, soda stops are completely different.
Short and to the point, they compliment and are easily coupled with the
necessary pit stop. Soda stops also have the added claim that they are
cheaper. only $97. If needed, a fuel stop option may also be exercised.
This might seriously bust your budget and cause you to forgo the burger
again. Which begs the question, Is there a web site listing all the
$97 soda pop stops? Tofu anyone?
Tim Kaser -- I do enjoy being enlightened and the $100 burger list is...
--------------------------------------------------------
>WOW Kirby,
>that is the best web site. If I entered all of those in the flight planner
>I could set it up to never miss a food joint on a cross country. Hmmm.. I
>wonder why I am over weight?
>
>John Oakely
>
>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
>>
>>Here you go http://www.100dollarhamburger.com/
>>
>>Surely no one took that literally ?
>>If so the burgers are cheap it just gettin there :)
>>
>>
>>Kirby
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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