Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:58 AM - Is lugging the engine bad? (kitfox@gto.net)
2. 03:59 AM - Re: Droop tips (kitfox@gto.net)
3. 05:37 AM - Re: Is lugging the engine bad? (kirk hull)
4. 06:17 AM - Cockpit sunshade (Clem Nichols)
5. 07:04 AM - Re: Re: Rotax 582 electric starter (jareds)
6. 07:44 AM - Re: Is lugging the engine bad? (Paul Seehafer)
7. 07:57 AM - Re: Is lugging the engine bad? (customtrans@qwest.net)
8. 08:05 AM - Re: wheels and tires (customtrans@qwest.net)
9. 08:07 AM - Re: Is lugging the engine bad? (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
10. 08:13 AM - Re: Is lugging the engine bad? (Randy Daughenbaugh)
11. 08:16 AM - Re: Is lugging the engine bad? (Jimmie Blackwell)
12. 08:51 AM - Re: Grove gear failure (Harris, Robert)
13. 09:16 AM - Re: Droop tips (matt msg.05.02.05.03:58:15.7737 msg.05.02.05.03:59:57.11515 msg.05.02.05.05:37:10.21164 msg.05.02.05.06:17:27.12080 msg.05.02.05.07:04:06.17223 msg.05.02.05.07:44:56.8295 msg.05.02.05.07:57:56.1128 msg.05.02.05.08:05:20.15134 msg.05.02.05.08:07:03.21154 msg.05.02.05.08:13:14.2125 msg.05.02.05.08:16:52.7226 msg.05.02.05.08:51:48.24463 msg.05.02.05.09:16:45.27522 msg.05.02.05.09:47:11.1280 msg.05.02.05.09:49:22.5207 msg.05.02.05.09:58:16.23897 msg.05.02.05.11:08:29.31296 msg.05.02.05.11:15:05.9429 msg.05.02.05.11:24:34.27664 msg.05.02.05.12:29:20.10342 msg.05.02.05.12:52:33.8061 msg.05.02.05.13:48:59.17586 msg.05.02.05.14:03:44.8837 msg.05.02.05.15:19:41.9886 msg.05.02.05.15:21:13.13119 msg.05.02.05.15:36:28.1568 msg.05.02.05.16:13:47.22305 msg.05.02.05.16:48:35.4796 msg.05.02.05.16:56:52.18418 msg.05.02.05.17:07:10.31380 msg.05.02.05.17:10:04.4033 msg.05.02.05.17:11:13.7163 msg.05.02.05.17:19:03.17271 msg.05.02.05.18:41:23.26476 msg.05.02.05.19:00:22.23762 msg.05.02.05.19:44:10.31761 msg.05.02.05.19:44:43.2334 msg.05.02.05.19:48:17.11997 msg.05.02.05.20:16:53.25808 msg.05.02.05.20:17:23.28777 msg.05.02.05.21:21:27.10218 old_messages web_browse.day.0 web_browse.day.1 web_browse.day.2 web_browse.day.3 web_browse.day.4 web_browse.day.5 web_browse.day.6)
14. 09:47 AM - Re: Droop tips (kurt schrader)
15. 09:49 AM - Re: Is lugging the engine bad? (kitfox@gto.net)
16. 09:58 AM - Randy more on Power fin (kitfox@gto.net)
17. 11:08 AM - Re: Is lugging the engine bad? (customtrans@qwest.net)
18. 11:15 AM - Re: Is lugging the engine bad? (customtrans@qwest.net)
19. 11:24 AM - Re: Droop tips (u2drvr@dslextreme.com)
20. 12:29 PM - Re: [Kitfox off-topic] Rotax 582 question (Michel Verheughe)
21. 12:52 PM - wing attach fittings (Mark Anliker)
22. 01:48 PM - Re: Is lugging the engine bad? (Randy Daughenbaugh)
23. 02:03 PM - Re: Droop tips (Michel Verheughe)
24. 03:19 PM - Re: wing attach fittings (Brett Walmsley)
25. 03:21 PM - Re: Is lugging the engine bad? (Clint Bazzill)
26. 03:36 PM - Re: wing attach fittings (u2drvr@dslextreme.com)
27. 04:13 PM - Re: wing attach fittings (Noel & Yoshie Simmons)
28. 04:48 PM - Re: wing attach fittings (Ronald K. Stevens)
29. 04:56 PM - Re: wing attach fittings (Jose M. Toro)
30. 05:07 PM - Re: wing attach fittings (John Perry)
31. 05:10 PM - Re: wing attach fittings (John Perry)
32. 05:11 PM - Fiberglass tail spring (kitfox@simnet.is)
33. 05:19 PM - Re: wing attach fittings (Ted Palamarek)
34. 06:41 PM - Re: Droop tips (kitfox@gto.net)
35. 07:00 PM - Re: Re: Rotax 582 electric starter (Jim Burke)
36. 07:44 PM - Fiberglass tail spring (hausding, sid)
37. 07:44 PM - Re: Tube Landing gear (John Larsen)
38. 07:48 PM - wing attach fittings (hausding, sid)
39. 08:16 PM - Sunk Kitfox (Alan Daniels)
40. 08:17 PM - Re: Cockpit sunshade (DeWayne Clifford)
41. 09:21 PM - Re: Fiberglass tail spring (Lowell Fitt)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Is lugging the engine bad? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
Randy, I know a fellow with a 912 100hp and he runs 5300 static and WOT
about 5600 to 5700. Lugging engine is not good. I seen it many times
guys think a courser pitch will give them more travel but it you not
got the power to turn it you are going backwards in performance.
It kind of like driving in high gear all the time . Surely you have had
a car or truck that lugged? Same thing really.
900 fpm @ 5000 feet is not stellar performance for a KF solo. You
might want to look at a IVO prop. Check that Bob Robertson that
posted, I hear that he is very well respected and certainly a Good guy
to call for at least an opinion. Most Rotax work in my part of
Ontario gets shipped to him. They tell me he a straight up guy with a
wealth of Rotax UL experience. Also I think he is a Rotax Engine
service Teacher. I know when i want it done I ship engine to him and
it back in less than 2 weeks.
Kirby
> > I have reached a point that gives me 5000 rpm at Wide Open Throttle
on the
> > ground. This only gives me a 108 mph cruise speed at 5500 rpm. I
still
> get
> > off the ground fast and climb at 900 fpm solo at 5000 ft.
> >
> > BUT, I have been told that it is hard on the engine to give it
full
> throttle
> > at 5000 rpm. That "lugging" the engine like this will hurt it. I
am not
> > too concerned since my strip is at 4400' and high manifold pressure
at
> this
> > altitude is still not too high.
Message 2
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
Kurt, Thanks for that tip. I get IAS now about 30 to 32 on stall and
cruise about 90 to 95 mph. I will try bednig it down but I hate to
break it.
Kirby
Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
> Hi Kirby,
>
> Didn't see anyone answer you yet on the pitot tube
> question. Thought I would give an oppinion.
>
> I think the pitot tube should be somewhere between
> level and 7 degrees down. A little nose down gives
> you more accuracy during slow flight and stalls
> without sacrificing cruise accuracy. With yours nose
> up, you could be getting less accuracy during slow
> flight and stalls. 7 degrees down should split the
> difference between cruise and stall angles for best
> accuracy.
>
> Kurt S.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Is lugging the engine bad? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirk hull" <kirkhull@sbcglobal.net>
One more thought about lugging the engine. HP is proportional to RPM ( in
the engines range ). If you lower the Rpm you will also lower the Hp
Available. That is why Hp is stated @ a certain RPM. If you look through
your engine manual you will probably find the max HP @ a certain RPM. My
guess is if you set the prop for that RPM @ Crz you will see improved #s
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bob
Robertson
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Is lugging the engine bad?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Robertson"
<aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
Hi Randy,
A while ago I spoke with Eric Tucker of Kodiak Research re the 912 series of
engines. His response to lowering the piston wear was to run the engine
close to 5500 rpm at cruise. He related that this seems to be an ideal rpm
to run this high compression engine.
The design of your prop and the cleanliness of your airframe will have a lot
to do with the max WOT rpm you can get.
If you can only get 5500 rpm at WOT in level flight I would say that you are
slightly over pitched. It would be better to back off the pitch a bit so
you can get, say, 5700-5800 rpm max in level flight at WOT.
You will be wasting a little fuel by drawing down the engine rpm with the
prop.
If your airframe is comparable to other series 7's and your weight is in
line with other identical planes, I'd start looking at the design of the
prop if you are not attaining the same level of performance as other similar
planes.... You have to compare apples to apples here though....
just my two cents
Bob Robertson
Light Engine Services Ltd.
Rotax Service Center
St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
www.rtx-av-engines.ca
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Is lugging the engine bad?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh"
<rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
>
>
> I have been trying to get a higher cruise speed by adding more pitch to my
> prop. For background, I have a Series 5 with Series 7 firewall forward
(I
> think that for practical purposes, this makes it a Series 7 with 912S and
a
> 72" Powerfin "F" prop.
>
> I have reached a point that gives me 5000 rpm at Wide Open Throttle on the
> ground. This only gives me a 108 mph cruise speed at 5500 rpm. I still
get
> off the ground fast and climb at 900 fpm solo at 5000 ft.
>
> BUT, I have been told that it is hard on the engine to give it full
throttle
> at 5000 rpm. That "lugging" the engine like this will hurt it. I am not
> too concerned since my strip is at 4400' and high manifold pressure at
this
> altitude is still not too high.
>
> But will this hurt my engine? Is "lugging" with too much pitch in the
prop
> bad?
>
> Randy - A CAP in my future?
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Cockpit sunshade |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
I want to put some type sunscreen/blocker on the canopy and turtle-deck of my Model
IV. Obviously I'd like to have the best of both worlds, ie be able to see
out, and still not feel slightly roasted on a sunny day. I remember previous
comments about some of the stick-on products causing problems with lexan. I'd
appreciate any comments/suggestions. Many thanks.
Clem Nichols
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 582 electric starter |
jeburke94je@direcway.com.Gecko/20040804.Netscape/7.2 (ax)
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds <jareds@verizon.net>
James... FYI.
Don Smythe gave me a great idea when having starter problems and that
was to put a access door inside the cockpit on the end of the recess for
starter compartment. I almost went down the road of yanking the whole
engine just to get the starter out of mine too but this is much better.
Especially for as often as a person has to get at the starter to clean
or tighten poles.
Jim Burke wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Burke <jeburke94je@direcway.com>
>
>I would be interested in buying or trading for a good used or new Rotax 582
>electric starter. Mine went down yesterday and I had to pull the engine
>today to change it out or repair it. I may just need to replace the brushes,
>but I haven't disassembled it yet. I plane on doing that tomorrow.
>
>
>James Burke
>Kitfox IV N94JE
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Is lugging the engine bad? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
Bob:
Just curious, since the 912ul (60 hp variety) is a lower compression, is it
ok to cruise that engine slower?
Paul Seehafer
Central Wisconsin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Robertson" <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Is lugging the engine bad?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Robertson"
> <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
>
> Hi Randy,
> A while ago I spoke with Eric Tucker of Kodiak Research re the 912 series
> of
> engines. His response to lowering the piston wear was to run the engine
> close to 5500 rpm at cruise. He related that this seems to be an ideal
> rpm
> to run this high compression engine.
> The design of your prop and the cleanliness of your airframe will have a
> lot
> to do with the max WOT rpm you can get.
> If you can only get 5500 rpm at WOT in level flight I would say that you
> are
> slightly over pitched. It would be better to back off the pitch a bit so
> you can get, say, 5700-5800 rpm max in level flight at WOT.
> You will be wasting a little fuel by drawing down the engine rpm with the
> prop.
> If your airframe is comparable to other series 7's and your weight is in
> line with other identical planes, I'd start looking at the design of the
> prop if you are not attaining the same level of performance as other
> similar
> planes.... You have to compare apples to apples here though....
> just my two cents
>
> Bob Robertson
> Light Engine Services Ltd.
> Rotax Service Center
> St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
> Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
> Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
> www.rtx-av-engines.ca
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Is lugging the engine bad?
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh"
> <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
>>
>>
>> I have been trying to get a higher cruise speed by adding more pitch to
>> my
>> prop. For background, I have a Series 5 with Series 7 firewall forward
> (I
>> think that for practical purposes, this makes it a Series 7 with 912S and
> a
>> 72" Powerfin "F" prop.
>>
>> I have reached a point that gives me 5000 rpm at Wide Open Throttle on
>> the
>> ground. This only gives me a 108 mph cruise speed at 5500 rpm. I still
> get
>> off the ground fast and climb at 900 fpm solo at 5000 ft.
>>
>> BUT, I have been told that it is hard on the engine to give it full
> throttle
>> at 5000 rpm. That "lugging" the engine like this will hurt it. I am not
>> too concerned since my strip is at 4400' and high manifold pressure at
> this
>> altitude is still not too high.
>>
>> But will this hurt my engine? Is "lugging" with too much pitch in the
> prop
>> bad?
>>
>> Randy - A CAP in my future?
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Is lugging the engine bad? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
Randy,
I have the powerfin prop and it is at 68". Seems the smaller the diameter
the faster the cruise, makes since to me for you have less in the wind so to
speak. I would try cutting to 70", (send the prop to powerfin and let them
do it) but keep in mind the climb out will suffer. My fox gets off better
than any Cessna loaded to the hilt so I don't mine, and since I cut the
wings to the speedster I figured I added 100ft. to my take off, big woopy in
my book. I have currently over 110mph at a cruse with a 912ul 80hp. engine.
I expect to get that higher once I get the rest of my mods on the plane,
Mark with the same airplane and prop is getting 125mph at full throttle.
good luck.
steve a
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Randy
Daughenbaugh
Subject: Kitfox-List: Is lugging the engine bad?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh"
<rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
I have been trying to get a higher cruise speed by adding more pitch to my
prop. For background, I have a Series 5 with Series 7 firewall forward (I
think that for practical purposes, this makes it a Series 7 with 912S and a
72" Powerfin "F" prop.
I have reached a point that gives me 5000 rpm at Wide Open Throttle on the
ground. This only gives me a 108 mph cruise speed at 5500 rpm. I still get
off the ground fast and climb at 900 fpm solo at 5000 ft.
BUT, I have been told that it is hard on the engine to give it full throttle
at 5000 rpm. That "lugging" the engine like this will hurt it. I am not
too concerned since my strip is at 4400' and high manifold pressure at this
altitude is still not too high.
But will this hurt my engine? Is "lugging" with too much pitch in the prop
bad?
Randy - A CAP in my future?
Message 8
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| Subject: | wheels and tires |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
Do you like them? How does it make the plane look?
steve a
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Allan Aaron
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: wheels and tires
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Allan Aaron" <aaaron@tvp.com.au>
I have them on my avid speedwing with grove gear.
Allan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
customtrans@qwest.net
Subject: Kitfox-List: wheels and tires
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
Has anybody put 500X5 tires & wheels on the Kitfox?
steve a
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Is lugging the engine bad? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 5/2/2005 10:59:23 AM Eastern Standard Time,
customtrans@qwest.net writes:
Randy,
I have the powerfin prop and it is at 68". Seems the smaller the diameter
the faster the cruise, makes since to me for you have less in the wind so to
speak. I would try cutting to 70", (send the prop to powerfin and let them
Just another input but, I went from a 70" Warp Drive on my 582 to a 68" Warp
Drive and saw no difference in climb or speed. If there was a difference,
it was not that apparent to the naked eye. BTW, I went to the 68" because I
hit a runway light. Warp Drive repaired and shortened the three blades for
$80. That's extra info.
Don Smythe
Classic IV w/ 582
Message 10
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| Subject: | Is lugging the engine bad? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
I appreciate all the comments - Bob and all! But I need to clear something
up.
At present settings, I can easily over rev the engine - 6000 +RPM - in level
flight. I don't have a good number on what air speed this gives me, but I
would guess it is about 115 mph. BUT this also gives me a 5000 RPM WOT on
the ground. This is what raises the "lugging the engine" issue.
From some comments, it sounds like I still don't have enough pitch.
I am still absorbing some of the comments. Thanks again.
Randy
.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Robertson
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Is lugging the engine bad?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Robertson"
<aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
Hi Randy,
A while ago I spoke with Eric Tucker of Kodiak Research re the 912 series of
engines. His response to lowering the piston wear was to run the engine
close to 5500 rpm at cruise. He related that this seems to be an ideal rpm
to run this high compression engine.
The design of your prop and the cleanliness of your airframe will have a lot
to do with the max WOT rpm you can get.
If you can only get 5500 rpm at WOT in level flight I would say that you are
slightly over pitched. It would be better to back off the pitch a bit so
you can get, say, 5700-5800 rpm max in level flight at WOT.
You will be wasting a little fuel by drawing down the engine rpm with the
prop.
If your airframe is comparable to other series 7's and your weight is in
line with other identical planes, I'd start looking at the design of the
prop if you are not attaining the same level of performance as other similar
planes.... You have to compare apples to apples here though....
just my two cents
Bob Robertson
Light Engine Services Ltd.
Rotax Service Center
St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
www.rtx-av-engines.ca
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Is lugging the engine bad?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh"
<rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
>
>
> I have been trying to get a higher cruise speed by adding more pitch to my
> prop. For background, I have a Series 5 with Series 7 firewall forward
(I
> think that for practical purposes, this makes it a Series 7 with 912S and
a
> 72" Powerfin "F" prop.
>
> I have reached a point that gives me 5000 rpm at Wide Open Throttle on the
> ground. This only gives me a 108 mph cruise speed at 5500 rpm. I still
get
> off the ground fast and climb at 900 fpm solo at 5000 ft.
>
> BUT, I have been told that it is hard on the engine to give it full
throttle
> at 5000 rpm. That "lugging" the engine like this will hurt it. I am not
> too concerned since my strip is at 4400' and high manifold pressure at
this
> altitude is still not too high.
>
> But will this hurt my engine? Is "lugging" with too much pitch in the
prop
> bad?
>
> Randy - A CAP in my future?
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Is lugging the engine bad? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" <jablackwell@ev1.net>
Steve
What is your rpm at 110mph. I have an IVO prop with 80 hp 912 ul and cruise
at 105mph at 4800 rpm. I can only get 4900 static rpm so after reading this
I am a little concerned about lugging the prop.
Jimmie
----- Original Message -----
From: <customtrans@qwest.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Is lugging the engine bad?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
>
> Randy,
> I have the powerfin prop and it is at 68". Seems the smaller the diameter
> the faster the cruise, makes since to me for you have less in the wind so
to
> speak. I would try cutting to 70", (send the prop to powerfin and let
them
> do it) but keep in mind the climb out will suffer. My fox gets off better
> than any Cessna loaded to the hilt so I don't mine, and since I cut the
> wings to the speedster I figured I added 100ft. to my take off, big woopy
in
> my book. I have currently over 110mph at a cruse with a 912ul 80hp.
engine.
> I expect to get that higher once I get the rest of my mods on the plane,
> Mark with the same airplane and prop is getting 125mph at full throttle.
> good luck.
>
> steve a
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Randy
> Daughenbaugh
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Is lugging the engine bad?
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh"
> <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
>
>
> I have been trying to get a higher cruise speed by adding more pitch to my
> prop. For background, I have a Series 5 with Series 7 firewall forward
(I
> think that for practical purposes, this makes it a Series 7 with 912S and
a
> 72" Powerfin "F" prop.
>
> I have reached a point that gives me 5000 rpm at Wide Open Throttle on the
> ground. This only gives me a 108 mph cruise speed at 5500 rpm. I still
get
> off the ground fast and climb at 900 fpm solo at 5000 ft.
>
> BUT, I have been told that it is hard on the engine to give it full
throttle
> at 5000 rpm. That "lugging" the engine like this will hurt it. I am not
> too concerned since my strip is at 4400' and high manifold pressure at
this
> altitude is still not too high.
>
> But will this hurt my engine? Is "lugging" with too much pitch in the
prop
> bad?
>
> Randy - A CAP in my future?
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Grove gear failure |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
That's a good point.
Robert
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cudnohufsky's
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Grove gear failure
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cudnohufsky's" <7suds@chartermi.net>
Robert,
I am rebuilding a Model 5 that was damaged in a ground loop. It has the
grove gear and it broke 2 landing gear bolts in the incident, fortunately
the gear stayed attached but it still caused some structural damage in the
area that I needed to repair, had the bolts not broken I an positive the
damage to the fuselage would have been much more severe, possibly to the
point that it may not have been worth repairing. All things have a weakest
link, I guess I would rather have the gear break than rip the bottom tubes
from the fuselage, my 2 cents worth.
Lloyd
----- Original Message -----
From: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Grove gear failure
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert"
> <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
>
> On a Kitfox V the bolts that attach the wheel to the Grove gear can break
> when put under a side load, such as a ground loop. The end result is the
> wheel will come off and the spring gear will bend. Apparently Grove is
> aware
> of this because when this information was told to the gal at Grove her
> reply
> was "Oh Yes."
>
> Can bigger bolts be used to attach the wheels to the Grove Gear?
>
> Robert
>
>
>
Message 13
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "*" <caseclosed66@hotmail.com>
I actually think the droop tips are pretty cool looking, a bit more
character for this little plane.
Just my opinion.\\
greg
----- Original Message -----
From: <kitfox@gto.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Droop tips
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
>
> Art I have the 1" strut fairings and the Tube gear fairings. I run 90 to
> 95 mph ias at 5800 to 6000 rpm so crusie not too bad. I feel that some
> more fairings would help give a few more mph possibly. There is a big
> gap between the tail and the horiontal stab.-- should this be covered
> up ?
>
>
> The Droop tips I not sure about removing as the short field
> performance is very good.
>
> Has anyone removed the droop tips ? And if so what was gained and
> lost?
>
> As far as ugly, I don't think they are that bad. Only thing they
> obstuct is a your attitude to the horizon. I do use the cross brace on
> the jury struts to give me a in relation to the horizon angle. When
> vertical, the droop tips make you look like you about to go inverted
> with that slant tip of the droop tip.
>
> Also my pitot tube, should it be level in levle flight? Mine is
> pointed up maybe 10 deg. or so.
>
>
> Kirby
>
>
> From: "kirk hull" <kirkhull@sbcglobal.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Droop tips
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirk hull"
> <kirkhull@sbcglobal.net>
> >
> >
> > What exactly do the droop tips do? add lift by stoping
> the high pressure
> > air from the bottom of the wing from spilling
> > around the end of the wing to the top. Often used with fences on top
> of the
> > wing.
> > What are the pros and cons of them ? They are Ugly and they
> impair
> > visibility
> >
> > Are they helpful in lift ? slow flight ? Yes. Yes.
> >
> > Are they drag in cruise ? In most cases Yes
>
>
Message 14
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Kirby,
If yours is aluminum tubing, it should bend pretty
easily. I have bumped mine a number of times and
straightened it back out during construction. I
personnally took all the damage, not the tube. ;-)
Kurt S. S-5
--- kitfox@gto.net wrote:
>
> Kurt, Thanks for that tip. I get IAS now about 30
> to 32 on stall and cruise about 90 to 95 mph.
> I will try bending it down, but I hate to break it.
>
> Kirby
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Is lugging the engine bad? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
Randy,
Sounds like your prop is real course on ground but thins out in flight
?
Maybe a in-flight adjustable would benefit you ?
Kirby
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh"
<rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
>
> I appreciate all the comments - Bob and all! But I need to clear
something
> up.
>
> At present settings, I can easily over rev the engine - 6000 +RPM -
in level
> flight. I don't have a good number on what air speed this gives me,
but I
> would guess it is about 115 mph. BUT this also gives me a 5000 RPM
WOT on
> the ground. This is what raises the "lugging the engine" issue.
>
> From some comments, it sounds like I still don't have enough pitch.
>
> I am still absorbing some of the comments. Thanks again.
>
> Randy
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Randy more on Power fin |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
Just found this for what it is worth
Kirby
A 72 3 blade Powerfin prop was tested and found to have less thrust
than the 72 GCS wooden 3 blade but was otherwise satisfactory. If
ground and aircraft structural clearance will allow, the 72 props
should provide the best solution.
http://www.flydiver.com/html/Verner_Props.htm
Message 17
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| Subject: | Is lugging the engine bad? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
Right now mine is a pretty dirty plane with gaps all over the place. But
Mark is getting about 5400 rpm with his and he is at about 110mph. Mark has
done a bunch with his powerfin and found that going down to the smaller
diameter prop gave him the best speeds.
steve a
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jimmie
Blackwell
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Is lugging the engine bad?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" <jablackwell@ev1.net>
Steve
What is your rpm at 110mph. I have an IVO prop with 80 hp 912 ul and cruise
at 105mph at 4800 rpm. I can only get 4900 static rpm so after reading this
I am a little concerned about lugging the prop.
Jimmie
----- Original Message -----
From: <customtrans@qwest.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Is lugging the engine bad?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
>
> Randy,
> I have the powerfin prop and it is at 68". Seems the smaller the diameter
> the faster the cruise, makes since to me for you have less in the wind so
to
> speak. I would try cutting to 70", (send the prop to powerfin and let
them
> do it) but keep in mind the climb out will suffer. My fox gets off better
> than any Cessna loaded to the hilt so I don't mine, and since I cut the
> wings to the speedster I figured I added 100ft. to my take off, big woopy
in
> my book. I have currently over 110mph at a cruse with a 912ul 80hp.
engine.
> I expect to get that higher once I get the rest of my mods on the plane,
> Mark with the same airplane and prop is getting 125mph at full throttle.
> good luck.
>
> steve a
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Randy
> Daughenbaugh
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Is lugging the engine bad?
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh"
> <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
>
>
> I have been trying to get a higher cruise speed by adding more pitch to my
> prop. For background, I have a Series 5 with Series 7 firewall forward
(I
> think that for practical purposes, this makes it a Series 7 with 912S and
a
> 72" Powerfin "F" prop.
>
> I have reached a point that gives me 5000 rpm at Wide Open Throttle on the
> ground. This only gives me a 108 mph cruise speed at 5500 rpm. I still
get
> off the ground fast and climb at 900 fpm solo at 5000 ft.
>
> BUT, I have been told that it is hard on the engine to give it full
throttle
> at 5000 rpm. That "lugging" the engine like this will hurt it. I am not
> too concerned since my strip is at 4400' and high manifold pressure at
this
> altitude is still not too high.
>
> But will this hurt my engine? Is "lugging" with too much pitch in the
prop
> bad?
>
> Randy - A CAP in my future?
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Is lugging the engine bad? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
Randy,
Mine overrevs at full throttle and level flight as well. I feel this is ok.
Remember it's a fixed pitch. I have 5200rpm at climb out at 60mph. Like I
said, my plane is still dirty and I get about 110 at 6000rpm, hope to get
that better after I get all my plates and stuff on. I also had one blade
slightly off pitch. Last year I got 117 at full throttle level flight with
the same prop, long wing.
steve a
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Randy
Daughenbaugh
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Is lugging the engine bad?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh"
<rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
I appreciate all the comments - Bob and all! But I need to clear something
up.
At present settings, I can easily over rev the engine - 6000 +RPM - in level
flight. I don't have a good number on what air speed this gives me, but I
would guess it is about 115 mph. BUT this also gives me a 5000 RPM WOT on
the ground. This is what raises the "lugging the engine" issue.
From some comments, it sounds like I still don't have enough pitch.
I am still absorbing some of the comments. Thanks again.
Randy
.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Robertson
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Is lugging the engine bad?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Robertson"
<aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
Hi Randy,
A while ago I spoke with Eric Tucker of Kodiak Research re the 912 series of
engines. His response to lowering the piston wear was to run the engine
close to 5500 rpm at cruise. He related that this seems to be an ideal rpm
to run this high compression engine.
The design of your prop and the cleanliness of your airframe will have a lot
to do with the max WOT rpm you can get.
If you can only get 5500 rpm at WOT in level flight I would say that you are
slightly over pitched. It would be better to back off the pitch a bit so
you can get, say, 5700-5800 rpm max in level flight at WOT.
You will be wasting a little fuel by drawing down the engine rpm with the
prop.
If your airframe is comparable to other series 7's and your weight is in
line with other identical planes, I'd start looking at the design of the
prop if you are not attaining the same level of performance as other similar
planes.... You have to compare apples to apples here though....
just my two cents
Bob Robertson
Light Engine Services Ltd.
Rotax Service Center
St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
www.rtx-av-engines.ca
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Is lugging the engine bad?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh"
<rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
>
>
> I have been trying to get a higher cruise speed by adding more pitch to my
> prop. For background, I have a Series 5 with Series 7 firewall forward
(I
> think that for practical purposes, this makes it a Series 7 with 912S and
a
> 72" Powerfin "F" prop.
>
> I have reached a point that gives me 5000 rpm at Wide Open Throttle on the
> ground. This only gives me a 108 mph cruise speed at 5500 rpm. I still
get
> off the ground fast and climb at 900 fpm solo at 5000 ft.
>
> BUT, I have been told that it is hard on the engine to give it full
throttle
> at 5000 rpm. That "lugging" the engine like this will hurt it. I am not
> too concerned since my strip is at 4400' and high manifold pressure at
this
> altitude is still not too high.
>
> But will this hurt my engine? Is "lugging" with too much pitch in the
prop
> bad?
>
> Randy - A CAP in my future?
>
>
Message 19
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: u2drvr@dslextreme.com
Actually, if you look at it mathematically, if the pitot tube is off by 10
degrees, you have an error of 1.5%. At the slow speeds we fly, this small
amount is not distinguishable on the airspeed indicator and is far smaller
than other installation errors (static leak, flow field around static
source, friction in system from pitot tube to indicator, etc). Flight
test data I have seen from other aircraft shows that errors due sideslip
of 10 degrees or less are not measurable, and up to 20 degrees are usually
insignificant.
In other words, I wouldn't risk trying to bend the tube because you will
see no benefit.
Brian Peck
U-2 Test Pilot
Kitfox V, IO-240B
kurt schrader
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
> Kirby,
>
> If yours is aluminum tubing, it should bend pretty
> easily. I have bumped mine a number of times and
> straightened it back out during construction. I
> personnally took all the damage, not the tube. ;-)
>
> Kurt S. S-5
>
> --- kitfox@gto.net wrote:
>>
>> Kurt, Thanks for that tip. I get IAS now about 30
>> to 32 on stall and cruise about 90 to 95 mph.
>> I will try bending it down, but I hate to break it.
>>
>> Kirby
>
>
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Re: [Kitfox off-topic] Rotax 582 question |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Thank you Lloyd, Jim, Krby and Bob, for your answers.
I have passed all you comments to my hangar buddy. Yes, I think the 582 has a
rotary valve, Lloyd. The prop is fixed pitch, Kirby, I have seen it. It could
be a difference of gear ratio, Bob and Jim, I am not sure. I'll see what my
friend answers.
Thanks again, everyone.
Michel
do not archive
Message 21
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| Subject: | wing attach fittings |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mark Anliker <manliker@uiuc.edu>
I have a buddy re-building some Avid wings for use on another fuselage.
He'll be removing the standard steel fittings that are riveted onto and
"sandwich" the root end of the spars...for the wing attach pins/bolts. In
the re-rigging process, I think he could use the 1-piece stainless wing
attach fittings that Accipiter Aviation used to sell. Wondering if anybody
knows if/where they might be available these days.
Mark
Message 22
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| Subject: | Is lugging the engine bad? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
"The biggest speed robber I have found is the
flappron setting."
Alan,
Thanks for this comment. I did put an extra detent in my flaperon system to
use a "zero" and then use the other one for "reflexed". But now you have
given me a way to check for "best position" without a ton of picky testing.
I don't have good fuel burn data yet, but will use your info to check that
too.
I don't have near enough pitch for WOT in level flight yet, but still have a
static RPM of 5000. More testing!
Randy
Message 23
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
kitfox@gto.net wrote:
> I get IAS now about 30 to 32 on stall and cruise about 90 to 95 mph.
30 to 32 MPH, Kerby? I don't understand. I have a model 3 with the
undercambered wings and the droop tips. I should be able to fly very slow. Yet
my stall speed is 40 MPH ... even indicated 50 MPH right now. And yes, I
installed a static port but it doesn't seem to help. I have to do more tests, I
am afraid.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: wing attach fittings |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" <kitfox4@numail.org>
They are, but the website is hard to find.
I will look, I may have the link.
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mark Anliker <manliker@uiuc.edu>
>
> I have a buddy re-building some Avid wings for use on another fuselage.
> He'll be removing the standard steel fittings that are riveted onto and
> "sandwich" the root end of the spars...for the wing attach pins/bolts. In
> the re-rigging process, I think he could use the 1-piece stainless wing
> attach fittings that Accipiter Aviation used to sell. Wondering if anybody
> knows if/where they might be available these days.
>
>
> Mark
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Is lugging the engine bad? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clint Bazzill" <clint_bazzill@hotmail.com>
You have to consider the Manifold presssure and RPM's
Clint Bazzill (nice feature when figuring power)
From: "kirk hull" <kirkhull@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Is lugging the engine bad?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirk hull" <kirkhull@sbcglobal.net>
One more thought about lugging the engine. HP is proportional to RPM ( in
the engines range ). If you lower the Rpm you will also lower the Hp
Available. That is why Hp is stated @ a certain RPM. If you look through
your engine manual you will probably find the max HP @ a certain RPM. My
guess is if you set the prop for that RPM @ Crz you will see improved #s
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bob
Robertson
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Is lugging the engine bad?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Robertson"
<aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
Hi Randy,
A while ago I spoke with Eric Tucker of Kodiak Research re the 912 series of
engines. His response to lowering the piston wear was to run the engine
close to 5500 rpm at cruise. He related that this seems to be an ideal rpm
to run this high compression engine.
The design of your prop and the cleanliness of your airframe will have a lot
to do with the max WOT rpm you can get.
If you can only get 5500 rpm at WOT in level flight I would say that you are
slightly over pitched. It would be better to back off the pitch a bit so
you can get, say, 5700-5800 rpm max in level flight at WOT.
You will be wasting a little fuel by drawing down the engine rpm with the
prop.
If your airframe is comparable to other series 7's and your weight is in
line with other identical planes, I'd start looking at the design of the
prop if you are not attaining the same level of performance as other similar
planes.... You have to compare apples to apples here though....
just my two cents
Bob Robertson
Light Engine Services Ltd.
Rotax Service Center
St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
www.rtx-av-engines.ca
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Is lugging the engine bad?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh"
<rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
>
>
> I have been trying to get a higher cruise speed by adding more pitch to
my
> prop. For background, I have a Series 5 with Series 7 firewall forward
(I
> think that for practical purposes, this makes it a Series 7 with 912S and
a
> 72" Powerfin "F" prop.
>
> I have reached a point that gives me 5000 rpm at Wide Open Throttle on
the
> ground. This only gives me a 108 mph cruise speed at 5500 rpm. I still
get
> off the ground fast and climb at 900 fpm solo at 5000 ft.
>
> BUT, I have been told that it is hard on the engine to give it full
throttle
> at 5000 rpm. That "lugging" the engine like this will hurt it. I am not
> too concerned since my strip is at 4400' and high manifold pressure at
this
> altitude is still not too high.
>
> But will this hurt my engine? Is "lugging" with too much pitch in the
prop
> bad?
>
> Randy - A CAP in my future?
>
>
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: wing attach fittings |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: u2drvr@dslextreme.com
http://www.blueskyaviation.net
Brett Walmsley
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" <kitfox4@numail.org>
>
> They are, but the website is hard to find.
> I will look, I may have the link.
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mark Anliker <manliker@uiuc.edu>
>>
>> I have a buddy re-building some Avid wings for use on another fuselage.
>> He'll be removing the standard steel fittings that are riveted onto and
>> "sandwich" the root end of the spars...for the wing attach pins/bolts.
>> In
>> the re-rigging process, I think he could use the 1-piece stainless wing
>> attach fittings that Accipiter Aviation used to sell. Wondering if
>> anybody
>> knows if/where they might be available these days.
>>
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>
>
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | wing attach fittings |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" <noel@blueskyaviation.net>
List,
Our spar attach brackest are unavailable at this time. I can not find a
machinest that is willing to produce these.
Noel
Blue Sky Aviation, Inc
www.blueskyaviation.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brett Walmsley
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: wing attach fittings
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" <kitfox4@numail.org>
They are, but the website is hard to find.
I will look, I may have the link.
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mark Anliker <manliker@uiuc.edu>
>
> I have a buddy re-building some Avid wings for use on another fuselage.
> He'll be removing the standard steel fittings that are riveted onto and
> "sandwich" the root end of the spars...for the wing attach pins/bolts. In
> the re-rigging process, I think he could use the 1-piece stainless wing
> attach fittings that Accipiter Aviation used to sell. Wondering if anybody
> knows if/where they might be available these days.
>
>
> Mark
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: wing attach fittings |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ronald K. Stevens" <rkstevens@verizon.net>
You can get 'em from Noel at Blue Sky Aviation. He is/used to be on the
list. Here's the link to his site: http://www.blueskyaviation.net/
They are called Spar Mounting Brackets - cost is $350 for a set of 4.
I've got some. They are nice.
Ron
Brett Walmsley wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" <kitfox4@numail.org>
>
>They are, but the website is hard to find.
>I will look, I may have the link.
>
>
>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mark Anliker <manliker@uiuc.edu>
>>
>>I have a buddy re-building some Avid wings for use on another fuselage.
>>He'll be removing the standard steel fittings that are riveted onto and
>>"sandwich" the root end of the spars...for the wing attach pins/bolts. In
>>the re-rigging process, I think he could use the 1-piece stainless wing
>>attach fittings that Accipiter Aviation used to sell. Wondering if anybody
>>knows if/where they might be available these days.
>>
>>
>>Mark
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: wing attach fittings |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
Check www.blueskyaviation.net
Brett Walmsley <kitfox4@numail.org> wrote:--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett
Walmsley"
They are, but the website is hard to find.
I will look, I may have the link.
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mark Anliker
>
> I have a buddy re-building some Avid wings for use on another fuselage.
> He'll be removing the standard steel fittings that are riveted onto and
> "sandwich" the root end of the spars...for the wing attach pins/bolts. In
> the re-rigging process, I think he could use the 1-piece stainless wing
> attach fittings that Accipiter Aviation used to sell. Wondering if anybody
> knows if/where they might be available these days.
>
>
> Mark
>
>
Jose M. Toro, P.E.
Kitfox II/582->Jabiru 2200
"A slow flight in the Caribbean..."
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: wing attach fittings |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Perry" <eskflyer@pld.com>
http://www.blueskyaviation.net/catalog.html
heres the link and no its not hard to find lol .
John Perry
fly safe fly low fly slow
kitfox 2 N718PD
582 c box 2:62-1 gsc 3 blade 68"
-------Original Message-------
From: Brett Walmsley
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: wing attach fittings
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" <kitfox4@numail.org>
They are, but the website is hard to find.
I will look, I may have the link.
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mark Anliker <manliker@uiuc.edu>
>
> I have a buddy re-building some Avid wings for use on another fuselage.
> He'll be removing the standard steel fittings that are riveted onto and
> "sandwich" the root end of the spars...for the wing attach pins/bolts. In
> the re-rigging process, I think he could use the 1-piece stainless wing
> attach fittings that Accipiter Aviation used to sell. Wondering if anybody
> knows if/where they might be available these days.
>
>
> Mark
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: wing attach fittings |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Perry" <eskflyer@pld.com>
You also might try Airdale , http://www.avidair.com/
John Perry
-------Original Message-------
From: Brett Walmsley
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: wing attach fittings
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" <kitfox4@numail.org>
They are, but the website is hard to find.
I will look, I may have the link.
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mark Anliker <manliker@uiuc.edu>
>
> I have a buddy re-building some Avid wings for use on another fuselage.
> He'll be removing the standard steel fittings that are riveted onto and
> "sandwich" the root end of the spars...for the wing attach pins/bolts. In
> the re-rigging process, I think he could use the 1-piece stainless wing
> attach fittings that Accipiter Aviation used to sell. Wondering if anybody
> knows if/where they might be available these days.
>
>
> Mark
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Fiberglass tail spring |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@simnet.is
Hi all
I went to the AERO-2005 airshow in Germany last month, there I found a fiberglass
tail spring made by a company from the Czech republic. It looks good and seams
to fit wrealy nice and it is lighter then the double leaf steel spring I
have on today. The only thing I need to change is putting a little longer bolts
to fit it because it is a little thicker then the double steel spring.
The price was so crazy that I could not resist to buy it.
Have any of you tried out these fiberglas springs ?
Whats your opinion are they better then the aluminum and/or the steel?
Regards from Iceland
Thor Emilsson
Message 33
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| Subject: | wing attach fittings |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ted Palamarek" <temco@telusplanet.net>
Mark
You can get the stainless wing attach fittings from Blue Sky
Aviation in Lewiston Montana for about $355.00. Noel and
Yoshie Simmonds run the place and they are good to deal
with. Phone 406 538-6574
Ted
Edmonton, Ab
<<<<SNIP>>>>
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mark Anliker
<manliker@uiuc.edu>
I have a buddy re-building some Avid wings for use on
another fuselage.
He'll be removing the standard steel fittings that are
riveted onto and
"sandwich" the root end of the spars...for the wing attach
pins/bolts. In
the re-rigging process, I think he could use the 1-piece
stainless wing
attach fittings that Accipiter Aviation used to sell.
Wondering if anybody
knows if/where they might be available these days.
Mark
==
==
Message 34
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
Michel,
Yes it is 30 to 32 mph clean. IAS and member my pitot points up about
10 deg from level attitude if that matters. You must have a heavy
Model 3 as mine dry is under 500 lbs on wheels. No exterior static
port here. Doors not exactly airtight , so what is point to have it ?
With at least 1/2 flaps my stall is about 26 mph. IAS again.
Kirby
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe
<michel@online.no>
>
> kitfox@gto.net wrote:
> > I get IAS now about 30 to 32 on stall and cruise about 90 to 95
mph.
>
> 30 to 32 MPH, Kerby? I don't understand. I have a model 3 with the
> undercambered wings and the droop tips. I should be able to fly very
slow. Yet
> my stall speed is 40 MPH ... even indicated 50 MPH right now. And
yes, I
> installed a static port but it doesn't seem to help. I have to do
more tests, I
> am afraid.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 582 electric starter |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Burke <jeburke94je@direcway.com>
I was able to remove and check the starter for my 582 today. I was sure it
would be burnt up inside but, was relieved to find it was in what looked to
be in good condition. The brushes was worn down some but not in dire need of
replacing. I did find a heavy black coating on the commentator.
I think the coating was keeping the brushes from making good contact. I
sanded off the black coating and put the starter back on the engine. I
hooked up the planes battery and turned the engine over as I would in the
normal start. The engine cracked over for about a min. before the battery
lost enough power that the starter slowed to a crawl. I guess what I need is
someone that can, to tell me if the starter is pulling to many amps or the
battery is to small for the starter load.
The Battery is a Magna Power ETX15L 14ah 190cca brand new full charged when
I tested.
Also can someone tell me what the load amps on the starter should be when
cracking the engine? I can check to see if the starter is operating in specs
if I had the amps it should pull on start up.
Thanks for the response I received to my last question, One of the members
has offered to sell me a starter if I need to replace mine.
Thanks in advance,
James E. Burke
(N94JE)
-------Original Message-------
From: Jim Burke
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Rotax 582 electric starter
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Burke <jeburke94je@direcway.com>
I would be interested in buying or trading for a good used or new Rotax 582
electric starter. Mine went down yesterday and I had to pull the engine
today to change it out or repair it. I may just need to replace the brushes,
but I haven't disassembled it yet. I plane on doing that tomorrow.
James Burke
Kitfox IV N94JE
Message 36
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| Subject: | Fiberglass tail spring |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "hausding, sid" <sidh@charter.net>
Haven't even heard of them before...........but, now very interested. How
about being the test person and telling us your experiences. And maybe a
link to the company..........
Sid
Avid Speedwing
---------------------------------
I went to the AERO-2005 airshow in Germany last month, there I found a
fiberglass tail spring made by a company from the Czech republic. It looks
good and seams to fit wrealy nice and it is lighter then the double leaf
steel spring I have on today. The only thing I need to change is putting a
little longer bolts to fit it because it is a little thicker then the double
steel spring.
The price was so crazy that I could not resist to buy it.
Have any of you tried out these fiberglas springs ?
Whats your opinion are they better then the aluminum and/or the steel?
Regards from Iceland
Thor Emilsson
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Tube Landing gear |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: John Larsen <jopatco@mindspring.com>
Here my 2 cents worth.
The earlier KF series 1-3 and early 4's has the smaller rudder and
vertical stab. I ran the short field takeoff event for KF when I worked
there and observed that you could yank a light weight 1-3 off the ground
before it was ready to fly, e.g. without enough airspeed to give desired
yaw control. Often new pilots would take off and have poor yaw
stability and then would cut power and try to land the plane often
hitting sideways wiping out the gear.
I made a study of wrecked KF and Avids with tube gear and noticed that
the first sign of damage due to bad straight down the runway landings
is bending of the lower longerons usually accompanied by bending of the
landing gear truss the spans across under the seat. The I never saw the
gear collapse due to this type of bad landing, only when subjected to
severe side loads or when involved in a severe crash. To spot whether a
KF-Avid has had a rough landing, look for wrinkled of sagging fabric in
the area of where the gear attaches to the lower longerons.
As for tube vs. Grove (spring) style gear, if you want to keep your
plane light, when you add up all the pieces of the spring gear
installation, you will save up to 18 lb. by using the tube gear. If you
want better ground handling use the spring gear. I have seen the lower
longerons damaged on a spring gear installation if subjected to enough
side load. This was when the gear ripped out rather than the plane
nosing over.
That is why I dsigned the Airdale such that the gear will bend before
the frame sustains damage, and also the two piece gear ala Cessna is
cheaper and easier to repair.
kitfox@gto.net wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
>
>Sorry but i have to defend the tube gear as I strongly feel that there
>is little wrong with it. Grove gear I have never tried mainly because
>the Kitfox is such a nice handing plane with tube gear. Sorry but Tube
>gear is very good. And did you know that spring gear breaks too ? it
>does.
>
>It was claimed that Skystar advised to change to Grove gear ?
>
>
>According to this http://www.skystar.com/Service%20Letters/sl48.htm
>It says PILOT ERROR not TUBE ERROR.
>
>This how rumors and in-correct information gets circulated by blaming
>everything but the root of the problem.
>
>Skystar even states " It has been our experience that incorrect
>handling of the aircraft on the ground (especially during landing) and
>poor maintenance have led to failures in a few of these gears in the
>field."
>
>and this
>
> "Prior to your next flight, we strongly recommend that you inspect
>your landing gear carefully. Figure 2 gives some general guidelines for
>this inspection. Begin by looking at all of the welded joints to insure
>there are no signs of fatigue. Next, make certain all structural
>members are straight, there are no dents in any members, and the bungee
>cords and the safety cable are not wearing or chafing on the gear
>members. The condition of the bungee should also be checked, and it
>should be replaced annually."
>
>Steve, it is hard to detect with out a trained eye for cracked welds
>and/or metal fatigue. But I would strongly feel that a broken weld
>would have shown up in a deformed or distorted gear that "could of "
>been caught possibly. Also the stance of plane could have looked a bit
>off. Black or dark coated paint or powder coating does not help to see
>cracks either.
>
>Was this gear new or used at the time ?
>
>
>
>
Message 38
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| Subject: | wing attach fittings |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "hausding, sid" <sidh@charter.net>
Noel,
Michigan has a lot of auto supply and service industry shops all over the
State.......let us know if you want us to try helping on the search to get
those made up..........
Sid
---------------------you the short, stocky guy with Blue hat in the pics?
:-) --------------
Our spar attach brackest are unavailable at this time. I can not find a
machinest that is willing to produce these.
Noel
Blue Sky Aviation, Inc
www.blueskyaviation.net
->
They are, but the website is hard to find.
I will look, I may have the link.
-----------------------------------------------------
>
> I have a buddy re-building some Avid wings for use on another fuselage.
> He'll be removing the standard steel fittings that are riveted onto and
> "sandwich" the root end of the spars...for the wing attach pins/bolts. In
> the re-rigging process, I think he could use the 1-piece stainless wing
> attach fittings that Accipiter Aviation used to sell. Wondering if anybody
> knows if/where they might be available these days.
>
>
> Mark
>
>
Message 39
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan Daniels <aldaniels@fmtc.com>
I posted some pictures on the Damage/Incident heading. It is of a friend
of mine who lives in Alaska. He has a 5 with a CAM 100 and he had put it
on skies for winter. He was taxing for takeoff from the lake in front of
his house when he went through the ice. This is one place where the
spring gear is a real asset. It is wider and breaks the ice out far
enough out that he could get out of the plane. Talk about cold. The prop
splintered and many of the instruments were damaged, but not much else.
They put inner tubes under the wings to hold it up, and used chainsaws
to cut about 10 feet of ice at a time from in front of the plane until
they could get it to were a crane could get it out. They changed the
oil, pulled the plugs and turned it over, dried it out and started it.
It didn't even ruin the radios. The last picture is of it flying again
this spring. If you get to Alaska to fly, find someone local to show you
how to fly up there and how to land on the beaches and river banks. It
is a little different, but what a hoot.
It doesn't look like the picture part of this list is used much. Is
there a reason. That should be one of the more important reasons to use
a list.
Alan
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Cockpit sunshade |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "DeWayne Clifford" <kitfox@bresnan.net>
They make a static cling film that will stick to glass ,acrylic and lexan.
It can be purchasted from
C.R. LAURENCE CO.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Cockpit sunshade
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
>
> I want to put some type sunscreen/blocker on the canopy and turtle-deck of
my Model IV. Obviously I'd like to have the best of both worlds, ie be able
to see out, and still not feel slightly roasted on a sunny day. I remember
previous comments about some of the stick-on products causing problems with
lexan. I'd appreciate any comments/suggestions. Many thanks.
>
> Clem Nichols
>
>
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass tail spring |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Lots of years ago, someone offered a fiberglass tail spring. A guy with a
Model I in Livermore put one on his. It failed due to delamination of the
lay-ups. We talked about it at the time and it was thought that if cloth or
roving was wrapped around the assembly it might hold together better.
I am interested in the design and how it works. Keep us posted.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: <kitfox@simnet.is>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Fiberglass tail spring
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@simnet.is
>
> Hi all
>
> I went to the AERO-2005 airshow in Germany last month, there I found a
> fiberglass tail spring made by a company from the Czech republic. It
> looks good and seams to fit wrealy nice and it is lighter then the double
> leaf steel spring I have on today. The only thing I need to change is
> putting a little longer bolts to fit it because it is a little thicker
> then the double steel spring.
> The price was so crazy that I could not resist to buy it.
>
> Have any of you tried out these fiberglas springs ?
> Whats your opinion are they better then the aluminum and/or the steel?
>
> Regards from Iceland
> Thor Emilsson
>
>
>
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