Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:44 AM - Re: Rotax 912S exhaust system - Ball Joints (kitfoxjunky)
2. 07:37 AM - Golden West EAA fly-in (Lowell Fitt)
3. 09:53 AM - Re: toe-in (again) (greg edson)
4. 12:53 PM - Stall speed. WAS: Droop tips (jareds)
5. 02:00 PM - Re: toe-in (again) (Lowell Fitt)
6. 03:43 PM - Stall speed. WAS: Droop tips (kitfox@gto.net)
7. 03:46 PM - Toe (kitfox@gto.net)
8. 04:36 PM - Bending (Rex & Jan Shaw)
9. 04:48 PM - Re: Toe (Lowell Fitt)
10. 06:21 PM - Toe in Lowell (kitfox@gto.net)
11. 07:03 PM - Re: toe-in (again) (Steve Cooper)
12. 08:38 PM - Re: Stall speed. WAS: Droop tips (Lowell Fitt)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912S exhaust system - Ball Joints |
09:43:21 AM,
Serialize complete at 05/05/2005 09:43:21 AM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky <kitfoxjunky@decisionlabs.com>
Thanks Jeff
The Europa 912S exhaust system is very similar to the Kitfox. Thanks for
the photos.
Gary Walsh
C-GOOT
www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
N55XS <topglock@cox.net>
Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
05/04/2005 09:38 PM
Please respond to kitfox-list
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912S exhaust system - Ball
Joints
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: N55XS <topglock@cox.net>
kitfoxjunky wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky
<kitfoxjunky@decisionlabs.com>
>
>In the past my exhaust system has been problematic..cracking. May be due
>to my not getting all the stress out of it when I re-assembled it..but I
>have heard others have had the same problem. Ran into a fellow who had
>similar problems until he put ball joints in the system. Has anyone on
>the list had experience in this area? Looks like they are only going to
>cost about $ 150.
>
Gary,
While not a Kitfox owner/builder (I'm currently building a Europa XS),
we do share a common engine, the Rotax 912S. I enjoy this site, mainly
because of the helpful folks and the fact that I may consider the "Fox"
as my next build. As fitted to the Europa, the exhaust system has ball
joints that join the muffler to the down pipes. I've heard of no
problems with the arrangment. As a matter of fact, I just installed
mine, today. If you'd like to see the arrangment, go to
http://www.n55xs.com and look at today's entrys.
--
Jeff - A055
Only FWF to finish up...
Builders Log: http://www.N55XS.com
--
Message 2
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| Subject: | Golden West EAA fly-in |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
I have been asked by the organizers of the Golden West EAA flyin to announce
this upcoming event.
This year it will be held on June 3,4&5 at Marysville (MYV) They will make
every effort to group aircraft according to type if notice is given.
Unfortunately, this event is one week before the Cameron Park Fly-in I host
and as in the past, I will be fully occupied here and unable to attend.
However, if there is sufficient interest by others on the list that want to
attend and want to tiedown - camp together, let me know and I will notify
the powers there so space will be reserved.
Check: http://www.goldenwestflyin.org for details.
Lowell
Message 3
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: greg edson <gedsons@yahoo.com>
hi, i would try accurately setting toe-in before going to toe-out. from personal r/c experience, and much research on the web and elsewhere: aircraft require toe-in to be easily controllable during taxi, takeoff roll, and landing roll. though i have no kitfox experience(yet), i would expect kitfoxes to react the same as other similar aircraft. here is a link to one of many articles on this subject: http://www.warbuddies.homestead.com/files/Setting-Toe.htm
Steve Cooper <spdrflyr@earthlink.net> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper"
I slid the bar through the axle in order to Cold Bend mine 1.5 degrees
Toe Out. Worked VERY well.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jimshumaker
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: toe-in (again)
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker"
Marco
I straightened my gear very simularly to Alan. But I used a 3 foot pipe
wrench with a 2 inch by 8 foot cheater over the handle. I padded the
jaws
of the wrench with hardwood. I did NOT go onto the axle. The wheels
and
tires stayed on the plane. Wrench went on the inside of the grear on
the
axle tube.
Jim Shumaker
Message 4
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| Subject: | Stall speed. WAS: Droop tips |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds <jareds@verizon.net>
I've got droops on mine and work nice for my harley flames but other
than that my stall is 42 indicated with a pretty close match to that on
both GPS's. It's a model IV 1050 with a 582 and not especially heavy.
kitfox@gto.net wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
>
>Michel, Yes I agree the pitot tube could be giving a incorrect
>reading. Will try to bend it down and re test this week. And perhaps
>the static port issue might be giving reading off a bit as well. To
>me if consistant, that is all i need. But to make comparisons we all
>needto be on a equal platform.
>
>By the way, what is yout opinion on the Droop tips? I would rather
>have the extra lift and slow flight handling and lose a few mph cruise.
> It no fun coming into 500 foot strips with too much speed. :)
>
>I got a friend putting a monnet VW 85 hp into his sonex and i am
>looking forward to see the performace. I think that is a very cost
>effective Kitfox engine possibility.
>
>
>Kirby
>
>
>
>
>>But you mention your pitot tube being 10 degrees up. Mine is about
>>
>>
>ten degrees down from the wing cord. As Kurt says, the angle should be
>about half of the stall angle. Are your sure your pitot pointing up is
>not giving you a lower speed reading?
>
>
>>Cheers,
>>Michel
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: toe-in (again) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Not to appear argumentative, but this is definitely not the case with our
tail wheel Kitfoxes. From time to time we hear comments on how difficult a
Kitfox is to handle on the ground. Parallel tracking to slightly toed out
will calm the savage beast. I am slightly toed out, both wheels - maybe a
degree and a half - and my airplane tracks nicely.
For the sake of argument, though, consider a toed in configuration at the
moment of first contact during a landing, assuming of course, that one tire
touches before the other - consider cross winds etc. Let's say that the
right tire touches first. With toe in, the airplane will track to the left,
centrifical force comes in to play now and it will have a tendency to lift
the left wing - as a car rounding a curve - raising the left tire also.
Dance on the rudder and ailerons and you just might get things straightened
out.
Take toe out now. The right tire touches down. The airplane will track to
the right, centrifical force comes into play once again but this time it
will have a tendency to plant the left tire on the ground. If that tire is
also toed out (or parallel) it will quickly offset the tracking forces of
the right tire and voila a straight tracking airplane
However, it is to each his own to discover for himself.. When you get ready
to fly - go for it. Can I watch?
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "greg edson" <gedsons@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: toe-in (again)
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: greg edson <gedsons@yahoo.com>
>
> hi, i would try accurately setting toe-in before going to toe-out. from
> personal r/c experience, and much research on the web and elsewhere:
> aircraft require toe-in to be easily controllable during taxi, takeoff
> roll, and landing roll. though i have no kitfox experience(yet), i would
> expect kitfoxes to react the same as other similar aircraft. here is a
> link to one of many articles on this subject:
> http://www.warbuddies.homestead.com/files/Setting-Toe.htm
>
>
> Steve Cooper <spdrflyr@earthlink.net> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper"
>
> I slid the bar through the axle in order to Cold Bend mine 1.5 degrees
> Toe Out. Worked VERY well.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jimshumaker
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: toe-in (again)
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker"
>
>
> Marco
>
> I straightened my gear very simularly to Alan. But I used a 3 foot pipe
>
> wrench with a 2 inch by 8 foot cheater over the handle. I padded the
> jaws
> of the wrench with hardwood. I did NOT go onto the axle. The wheels
> and
> tires stayed on the plane. Wrench went on the inside of the grear on
> the
> axle tube.
>
> Jim Shumaker
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Stall speed. WAS: Droop tips |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
40 mph for a kitfox stall ?
what do you lift off at on your gps?
How long is your take off roll and what is your weight ?
I could be wrong but 40 mph seems too high.
Kirby
Subject: Kitfox-List: Stall speed. WAS: Droop tips
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds <jareds@verizon.net>
>
> I've got droops on mine and work nice for my harley flames but other
> than that my stall is 42 indicated with a pretty close match to that
on
> both GPS's. It's a model IV 1050 with a 582 and not especially
heavy.
Message 7
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
Good post Lowell.
I measure toe in inches or fraction of and I really don't know how
anyone can measure toes accuratly with degrees. That being said I have
to agree zero to maybe 1/8 " to 1/4 " toe out would be my preferance
but no more.
Toe in on a car it to make up for the play that comes from every joint
and it might be 1.4 to 1/8" toe in. We talking like a trailer here --
Zero is best.
I honestly don't think 1/4 inch toe in or out will make that much of a
differance in handling.
Kirby
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt"
<lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Not to appear argumentative, but this is definitely not the case with
our
tail wheel Kitfoxes. From time to time we hear comments on how
difficult a
Kitfox is to handle on the ground. Parallel tracking to slightly toed
out
will calm the savage beast. I am slightly toed out, both wheels -
maybe a
degree and a half - and my airplane tracks nicely
Message 8
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
I had to bend the gear around 20 degrees until I noticed that the gear
was beginning to yield and the spot did not quite return to the
starting position.
Continue until the spot has moved by the amount of correction that you
want in the released condition.
Just to add a point here that might be relavent. Years ago I was involved in
straightening bent prop shafts on high performance boats. What I found was
just straightening the shaft always resulted in some degree at least to the
shaft going back to some degree of the original bend very quickly in use. So
when straightening I went the smallest amount I could in over straightening
then brought it back to straight. This way it stayed straight in use. It
might seem this could weaken the shaft but I never encountered any such
problems.
Rex.
rexjan@bigpond.com
Message 9
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Kirby, I got the degree setting by plotting the measurements on a CAD
program and had it measure the angle in degrees.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: <kitfox@gto.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Toe
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
>
> Good post Lowell.
>
> I measure toe in inches or fraction of and I really don't know how
> anyone can measure toes accuratly with degrees. That being said I have
> to agree zero to maybe 1/8 " to 1/4 " toe out would be my preferance
> but no more.
>
> Toe in on a car it to make up for the play that comes from every joint
> and it might be 1.4 to 1/8" toe in. We talking like a trailer here --
> Zero is best.
> I honestly don't think 1/4 inch toe in or out will make that much of a
> differance in handling.
>
>
> Kirby
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt"
> <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Not to appear argumentative, but this is definitely not the case with
> our
> tail wheel Kitfoxes. From time to time we hear comments on how
> difficult a
> Kitfox is to handle on the ground. Parallel tracking to slightly toed
> out
> will calm the savage beast. I am slightly toed out, both wheels -
> maybe a
> degree and a half - and my airplane tracks nicely
>
>
>
Message 10
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
Lowell,
I check toe one way on a plane.
1. Check to make sure wheel it true or where on the inside of tire I
am going ot measure it.
2. Measure front and back at sprindle (axle) height .
I use a tape measure or a toe bar with adjustable pointers..
If i cannot get a clear shot at both from and rear of inside of tire ot
wheel I will spipn the tire and spray paint a 1" wide path on thread
of tire or use the kids fat sidewalk chalk. Then scribe a line in that
pianted or chalked area.
Then go back to step 2 measure it .
This way you are getting reading of the both wheels as then spin which
sholdbe true?
Hope this does not confuse you as before electronic alignment equipemt
surfaced i use to do front alignments on cars,trucks and buses daily.
And a few planes too :)
Kirby
Just in from Kitfox flying last hour.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt"
<lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Kirby, I got the degree setting by plotting the measurements on a CAD
program and had it measure the angle in degrees.
Lowell
Message 11
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
Yep. That';s what I thought too...but I was wrong. You want Toe-Out.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of greg edson
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: toe-in (again)
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: greg edson <gedsons@yahoo.com>
hi, i would try accurately setting toe-in before going to toe-out. from
personal r/c experience, and much research on the web and elsewhere:
aircraft require toe-in to be easily controllable during taxi, takeoff
roll, and landing roll. though i have no kitfox experience(yet), i would
expect kitfoxes to react the same as other similar aircraft. here is a
link to one of many articles on this subject:
http://www.warbuddies.homestead.com/files/Setting-Toe.htm
Steve Cooper <spdrflyr@earthlink.net> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper"
I slid the bar through the axle in order to Cold Bend mine 1.5 degrees
Toe Out. Worked VERY well.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jimshumaker
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: toe-in (again)
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker"
Marco
I straightened my gear very simularly to Alan. But I used a 3 foot pipe
wrench with a 2 inch by 8 foot cheater over the handle. I padded the
jaws
of the wrench with hardwood. I did NOT go onto the axle. The wheels
and
tires stayed on the plane. Wrench went on the inside of the grear on
the
axle tube.
Jim Shumaker
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Stall speed. WAS: Droop tips |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
I plotted my airspeed indicator using a water manometer. There was a web
site somewhere that gave the conversion formulas for the delta in the water
heights. Mine is right on at about70 mph or so. It reads progressively
higher at higher speeds and lower at lower speeds. In other words, It gives
me a better bragging cruise speed and also a better bragging stall speed. I
have also calibrated using GPS. Interesting info, but for some reason I
haven't really found any practical use for the info. I just fly and
eventually I get where I am going. and whjen landing it is much the same.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: <kitfox@gto.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Stall speed. WAS: Droop tips
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
>
> 40 mph for a kitfox stall ?
> what do you lift off at on your gps?
> How long is your take off roll and what is your weight ?
>
> I could be wrong but 40 mph seems too high.
>
> Kirby
>
>
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Stall speed. WAS: Droop tips
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds <jareds@verizon.net>
>>
>> I've got droops on mine and work nice for my harley flames but other
>
>> than that my stall is 42 indicated with a pretty close match to that
> on
>> both GPS's. It's a model IV 1050 with a 582 and not especially
> heavy.
>
>
>
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