---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 05/08/05:12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:51 AM - Re: exhaust fumes (kitfoxjunky) 2. 08:26 AM - Flaperon hinge brackets (Lynn Matteson) 3. 11:33 AM - Power Settings (George Wells) 4. 11:47 AM - Re: Power Settings (jdmcbean) 5. 12:20 PM - Re: Flaperon hinge brackets (Tom Jones) 6. 01:27 PM - Re: Flaperon hinge brackets (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 7. 01:58 PM - Re: Flaperon hinge brackets (Lynn Matteson) 8. 01:59 PM - Re: Flaperon hinge brackets (Marco Menezes) 9. 02:45 PM - Re: Flaperon hinge brackets (flier) 10. 02:49 PM - Re: Prop strike......... (Cudnohufsky's) 11. 03:15 PM - Power Settings (George Wells) 12. 04:20 PM - Re: Flaperon hinge brackets (Alan Daniels) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:51:12 AM PST US From: kitfoxjunky Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: exhaust fumes 07:47:39 AM, Serialize complete at 05/08/2005 07:47:39 AM --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky I would love to see a picture of this exhaust system Jareds..since the note below mentions ball joints. Something I am considering installing. Gary Walsh C-GOOT www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox Alan Daniels Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com 05/07/2005 05:52 PM Please respond to kitfox-list To: kitfox-list@matronics.com cc: Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: exhaust fumes --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan Daniels I have found that if your exhaust pipe is cut too short you can get fumes especially on climb out, but you can usually see exhaust soot on the plane if that is happening. The ball joints seems to have some leakage signs on the pipe, but you should no be able to detect any with smell or with a detector. If you post a picture of your system someone might see something that will help you out. Exhaust fumes are nothing to mess with. Alan jareds wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds > >Now that engine swap is done it's time to try to eliminate the exhaust >fumes that plague my cockpit. >First, I don't understand if some leakage from the exhaust connections >is even normal. This year during assembly the mechanics recomended >putting anti sieze on couplers to aid in both rust prevention and as a >sealant. Are there any other secrets and is it even normal. > >Next, I'm going to put a light at night in engine compartment to locate >any other holes i may have missed but is venting from engine compartment >or on the sides ever a consideration to allow some of that forced air >somewhere else to exit? > >I'm at a loss here? > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:26:21 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Flaperon hinge brackets From: Lynn Matteson --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson I just started to attach my flap hinge brackets to the wing, and noticed that the called for 1/8 x 1/4 alum pop rivets (#95007) have aluminum mandrels. They seem awfully easy to "pop"....that is, they don't seem very strong. In checking the Aircraft Spruce catalog, there are no alum rivets with alum mandrels available. This makes me think that the alum rivet with steel mandrels might have superseded the alum/alum rivets. My question is what is the group's feelings regarding this matter....quit using the alum/alum rivets and get alum rivets with steel mandrels, or are the original rivets strong enough? I don't think the "popped" mandrel really adds any strength to the rivet, but maybe it does. Lynn ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:33:41 AM PST US From: "George Wells" Subject: Kitfox-List: Power Settings --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "George Wells" I have asked this before and did not receive a response so I will try again. What do most people suggest for power settings ( i.e. - throttle and prop ) for a 914- 80 HP for cruise? I have a CAP so I can set the prop most anywhere. Thanks ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:47:43 AM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Power Settings --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" Do you mean 912 80 hp ?? Fly Safe !! John & Debra McBean www.sportplanellc.com "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of George Wells Subject: Kitfox-List: Power Settings --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "George Wells" I have asked this before and did not receive a response so I will try again. What do most people suggest for power settings ( i.e. - throttle and prop ) for a 914- 80 HP for cruise? I have a CAP so I can set the prop most anywhere. Thanks ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:20:17 PM PST US From: Tom Jones Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Flaperon hinge brackets --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tom Jones Lynn, I think the design of the bracket to rib attachment is plenty strong with the aluminum rivets. With 16 rivets holding each bracket to its rib, they are not the weakest link in my opinion. If you tried to pull a bracket off a rib I think the wood would fail before you could break a rivet. Tom Jones Lynn Matteson wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson > > I just started to attach my flap hinge brackets to the wing, and > noticed that the called for 1/8 x 1/4 alum pop rivets (#95007) have > aluminum mandrels. They seem awfully easy to "pop"....that is, they > don't seem very strong. In checking the Aircraft Spruce catalog, there > are no alum rivets with alum mandrels available. This makes me think > that the alum rivet with steel mandrels might have superseded the > alum/alum rivets. My question is what is the group's feelings regarding > this matter....quit using the alum/alum rivets and get alum rivets with > steel mandrels, or are the original rivets strong enough? I don't think > the "popped" mandrel really adds any strength to the rivet, but maybe > it does. > > Lynn ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:27:44 PM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Flaperon hinge brackets --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com <> Another "possible" hazard of using hard rivets like stainless is, they might tend to pull through the thin alum backing and/or crush the wood. I too think the provided alum rivets are strong enough. Don Smythe Classic IV w/ 582 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:58:36 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Flaperon hinge brackets From: Lynn Matteson --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson Yeah, you're probably right, Tom....I guess these rivets would be in shear, primarily, and 16 of 'em should hold, but it just struck me to ask. They probably aren't in tension, due to the holding power of the two bolts, but I'm not an engineer, so who's to say whether they are stronger in shear as oppose to tension? Maybe I'm just getting paranoid. Lynn On Sunday, May 8, 2005, at 03:19 PM, Tom Jones wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tom Jones > > > Lynn, > I think the design of the bracket to rib attachment is plenty strong > with the aluminum rivets. With 16 rivets holding each bracket to its > rib, they are not the weakest link in my opinion. If you tried to pull > a bracket off a rib I think the wood would fail before you could break > a > rivet. > Tom Jones > > Lynn Matteson wrote: >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson >> >> I just started to attach my flap hinge brackets to the wing, and >> noticed that the called for 1/8 x 1/4 alum pop rivets (#95007) have >> aluminum mandrels. They seem awfully easy to "pop"....that is, they >> don't seem very strong. In checking the Aircraft Spruce catalog, there >> are no alum rivets with alum mandrels available. This makes me think >> that the alum rivet with steel mandrels might have superseded the >> alum/alum rivets. My question is what is the group's feelings >> regarding >> this matter....quit using the alum/alum rivets and get alum rivets >> with >> steel mandrels, or are the original rivets strong enough? I don't >> think >> the "popped" mandrel really adds any strength to the rivet, but maybe >> it does. >> >> Lynn > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:59:02 PM PST US From: Marco Menezes Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Flaperon hinge brackets --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes Hi Lynn. IMHO steel-aluminum rivets are prone to galvanic corrosion because of the different electrical potentials in dissimilar metals. Hence the specification of all aluminum rivets. You can get any kind of pop rivet from Barnhill Bolt Co. (barnhillbolt.com). I don't think the relative difference in strength (if any) is an issue but you can check the specs on Barnhill's site. Marco Menezes KF 2 N99KX Lynn Matteson wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson I just started to attach my flap hinge brackets to the wing, and noticed that the called for 1/8 x 1/4 alum pop rivets (#95007) have aluminum mandrels. They seem awfully easy to "pop"....that is, they don't seem very strong. In checking the Aircraft Spruce catalog, there are no alum rivets with alum mandrels available. This makes me think that the alum rivet with steel mandrels might have superseded the alum/alum rivets. My question is what is the group's feelings regarding this matter....quit using the alum/alum rivets and get alum rivets with steel mandrels, or are the original rivets strong enough? I don't think the "popped" mandrel really adds any strength to the rivet, but maybe it does. Lynn --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:45:51 PM PST US From: "flier" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Flaperon hinge brackets --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" Lynn, Actually, the popped mandrel does add shear strength if the rivet is designed to retain the mandrel. I do agree with Tom, you'd tear the rib up pretty bad before you could shear the rivets... Regards, Ted -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tom Jones Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Flaperon hinge brackets --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tom Jones Lynn, I think the design of the bracket to rib attachment is plenty strong with the aluminum rivets. With 16 rivets holding each bracket to its rib, they are not the weakest link in my opinion. If you tried to pull a bracket off a rib I think the wood would fail before you could break a rivet. Tom Jones Lynn Matteson wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson > > I just started to attach my flap hinge brackets to the wing, and > noticed that the called for 1/8 x 1/4 alum pop rivets (#95007) have > aluminum mandrels. They seem awfully easy to "pop"....that is, they > don't seem very strong. In checking the Aircraft Spruce catalog, there > are no alum rivets with alum mandrels available. This makes me think > that the alum rivet with steel mandrels might have superseded the > alum/alum rivets. My question is what is the group's feelings regarding > this matter....quit using the alum/alum rivets and get alum rivets with > steel mandrels, or are the original rivets strong enough? I don't think > the "popped" mandrel really adds any strength to the rivet, but maybe > it does. > > Lynn ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:49:11 PM PST US From: "Cudnohufsky's" <7suds@chartermi.net> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Prop strike......... --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cudnohufsky's" <7suds@chartermi.net> Don, Kinda know the feeling, was being directed off the runway at Oshkosh and hit a large rock with the right tire, the tail came off the ground but fortunately the prop never hit. The guy said it was OK to proceed but I shut it down and walked it through the transition. Lloyd ----- Original Message ----- From: "hausding, sid" Subject: Kitfox-List: Prop strike......... > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "hausding, sid" > > How long does it take to change the prop out. I know we usually don't > have > them laying around the shop, but some one around your airport must have > something you can bolt on and get 90% efficiency to get back in the air > temporarily while awaiting the perfect prop replacement.......... > Sid > put the call out................I would have sent you mine if you had said > something sooner. 68", 3-blade, GSC with leading edge > ------------------------- > positive safety issue at this point". > Just having some fun at your expense, couldn't help myself. But really, > what do you mean by the above? > Sid > ------------------------ > > BTW, hitting the light wasn't my fault. Went to a fly-in where some > dummy > was directing aircraft off the runway into a large field. He directed me > to > turn right where a runway light was located. It was on my right/blind > side > > I guess what I was getting at is, can/should I fly the plane. Am > supposed to fly to an American Cancer Society fly-in next weekend (about > 30 > miles). > I know I'm grounded but thought I would ask the question just in case. > > Do Not Archive > Don Smythe > Classic IV w/ 582 > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:15:41 PM PST US From: "George Wells" Subject: Kitfox-List: Power Settings --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "George Wells" Please Ref. my message 5/8 @ 11:33 -- The engine is a 912 -- For some reason I had a 914 on my mind. Thanks ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:20:35 PM PST US From: Alan Daniels Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Flaperon hinge brackets --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan Daniels I assume that you are not working on a 7. The 7 uses a different bracket and different attach inside the wing. On that setup you need SS, but you are pulling against a steal cup type bracket that sandwich the wood of the rib and only attaches from the top. Skystar builds in a healthy safety margin and would go with what they say. If you have any question on safety of flight items a call to the factory would be in order. Alan Lynn Matteson wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson > >I just started to attach my flap hinge brackets to the wing, and >noticed that the called for 1/8 x 1/4 alum pop rivets (#95007) have >aluminum mandrels. They seem awfully easy to "pop"....that is, they >don't seem very strong. In checking the Aircraft Spruce catalog, there >are no alum rivets with alum mandrels available. This makes me think >that the alum rivet with steel mandrels might have superseded the >alum/alum rivets. My question is what is the group's feelings regarding >this matter....quit using the alum/alum rivets and get alum rivets with >steel mandrels, or are the original rivets strong enough? I don't think >the "popped" mandrel really adds any strength to the rivet, but maybe >it does. > >Lynn > > > >