---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 05/17/05: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 11:35 AM - Archeologist (Michael Gibbs) 2. 12:37 PM - Re: Fuel cap gaskets (Michel Verheughe) 3. 01:10 PM - Re: Archeologist (Dirk Slabbert) 4. 01:28 PM - Re: BRS (Michael Gibbs) 5. 01:29 PM - Re: Archeologist (Michel Verheughe) 6. 02:04 PM - Re: BRS (Rick) 7. 02:05 PM - Re: BRS (Alan Daniels) 8. 02:50 PM - Builder Tip (Mike Couillard) 9. 03:25 PM - Re: BRS (kitfox@gto.net) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 11:35:02 AM PST US From: Michael Gibbs Subject: Kitfox-List: Archeologist --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs Hi all, Yesterday I went digging into the remains of N728KF looking for additional useable parts and found a lot of useful things. I was able to recover the fuel filter mounting brackets, the fuel header tank (still full of fuel we discovered--yikes!), the long-item storage compartment I had constructed behind the baggage area, the fuel pump, the fuel flow sensor, the ELT (it will be needing new batteries :-), the comm and ELT antennas, the cabin speakers, and the seat belts. And, because I am a sentimental guy, I cut the Kitfox logo and registration number off the tail for a souvenir. I was once again impressed by the strength of the structure and covering of the plane. Even after the abuse it had suffered the frame and fabric were very tough to cut through to get to some of these parts. The other thing that was impressive was how incredibly dirty it was and I became! As for me, physical therapy continues and my walking is improving steadily, although I still need a walker for support when on my feet. I didn't find it too difficult to work on the plane with the walker there although it is a bit of a hindrance. I have more confidence that work on the new 'fox will not be significantly slowed by my continuing recovery. Although a bit wobbly, I did manage to walk around a bit last weekend using only a cane. It sure was great to be out in the shop again! Mike G. N728KF ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:37:24 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel cap gaskets --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Thanks everyone for the part number of the Mercedes gasket. I'll see if I can get a couple, here in Norway. Lynn, yes, I have written it down on a piece of paper now! :-) John, I'll also look at the inside vents, thanks. Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:10:55 PM PST US From: "Dirk Slabbert" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Archeologist --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dirk Slabbert" Mike, looks like I had the same sort of injuries in 2001, can share my experience if you want. Regards, Dirk. ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Gibbs To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: 17 May, 2005 8:34 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Archeologist --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs Hi all, Yesterday I went digging into the remains of N728KF looking for additional useable parts and found a lot of useful things. I was able to recover the fuel filter mounting brackets, the fuel header tank (still full of fuel we discovered--yikes!), the long-item storage compartment I had constructed behind the baggage area, the fuel pump, the fuel flow sensor, the ELT (it will be needing new batteries :-), the comm and ELT antennas, the cabin speakers, and the seat belts. And, because I am a sentimental guy, I cut the Kitfox logo and registration number off the tail for a souvenir. I was once again impressed by the strength of the structure and covering of the plane. Even after the abuse it had suffered the frame and fabric were very tough to cut through to get to some of these parts. The other thing that was impressive was how incredibly dirty it was and I became! As for me, physical therapy continues and my walking is improving steadily, although I still need a walker for support when on my feet. I didn't find it too difficult to work on the plane with the walker there although it is a bit of a hindrance. I have more confidence that work on the new 'fox will not be significantly slowed by my continuing recovery. Although a bit wobbly, I did manage to walk around a bit last weekend using only a cane. It sure was great to be out in the shop again! Mike G. N728KF ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:28:51 PM PST US From: Michael Gibbs Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: BRS --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs I can see using the BRS after an unintentional encounter with instrument conditions, a mid-air collision, an engine failure over bad terrain, or pilot incapacitation. A big caveat though, is would you or your passenger be willing and able to deploy the 'chute under those conditions? Remember that the BRS is designed to save humans, not airplanes. Pulling that handle means you are forfeiting the airplane in exchange for a higher probability of a safe landing for pilot and passenger. If you were disoriented in the clouds you might decide at some point that you cannot handle the situation and that you are willing to sacrifice the airplane in order to get back to earth safely. If the aircraft is in an unusual attitude, though, will the 'chute deploy properly? After a mid-air collision will it deploy? Will you be able to grab the handle if high g-forces are tossing you about in what's left of the plane? Maybe... If you brief a passenger on how to use the handle in case you become incapacitated, can you be sure they won't try to pull it if they simply become frightened? I'm not saying the parachutes don't have value, just providing some food for thought. I've been asked a number of times if I thought a BRS could have been used in my accident. I've discussed this with my passenger (also a pilot) several times and we both believe that there simply wasn't time to have made the decision and to have carried it out. For most of the trip down to the ground we thought we would be able to recover. Mike G. N728KF ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:29:21 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Archeologist --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Michael Gibbs wrote: > And, because I am a sentimental guy, I cut the Kitfox > logo and registration number off the tail for a souvenir. Good for you, Mike! The secret of life is only in what you make of it. Make any person, object and event in it, something special. > As for me, physical therapy continues and my walking is improving > steadily, although I still need a walker for support when on my feet. I am glad to hear that. Your courage is an example for all of us. My very best wishes for a speedy recovery, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:04:18 PM PST US From: "Rick" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: BRS --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" I think it would be quite the contrary reference sacrificing the aircraft. From the ones I have seen both organic and inorganic components fair far better than a crash. Decision time has a shelf life. In many cases chute or not , we don't know how much shelf life our thought processes have. Mike glad your a bit better than when I talked to you in the hospital. Rick (If anyone has a BRS there not going to install please let me know) -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michael Gibbs Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: BRS --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs I can see using the BRS after an unintentional encounter with instrument conditions, a mid-air collision, an engine failure over bad terrain, or pilot incapacitation. A big caveat though, is would you or your passenger be willing and able to deploy the 'chute under those conditions? Remember that the BRS is designed to save humans, not airplanes. Pulling that handle means you are forfeiting the airplane in exchange for a higher probability of a safe landing for pilot and passenger. If you were disoriented in the clouds you might decide at some point that you cannot handle the situation and that you are willing to sacrifice the airplane in order to get back to earth safely. If the aircraft is in an unusual attitude, though, will the 'chute deploy properly? After a mid-air collision will it deploy? Will you be able to grab the handle if high g-forces are tossing you about in what's left of the plane? Maybe... If you brief a passenger on how to use the handle in case you become incapacitated, can you be sure they won't try to pull it if they simply become frightened? I'm not saying the parachutes don't have value, just providing some food for thought. I've been asked a number of times if I thought a BRS could have been used in my accident. I've discussed this with my passenger (also a pilot) several times and we both believe that there simply wasn't time to have made the decision and to have carried it out. For most of the trip down to the ground we thought we would be able to recover. Mike G. N728KF ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:05:27 PM PST US From: Alan Daniels Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: BRS --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Alan Daniels The Cirrus people have learned that the answer is yes. With somewhere around 150 saves the BRS people have learned the answer is yes. 7 members of my family have been PIC in airplanes I have built, and several others have flown them. The one thing I insist on is that when they go to take off they have to put the value of the plane at zero. If they can't then I don't want them to take off. Don't get me wrong, I like my planes and would like to use them again, but for the purposes of flight safety saving the plane from damage can not even be a consideration. I have lost two very good friends in separate crashes because they tried to save their planes. I would give everything I have and live in a cardboard box if I could have them back. An airplane is just something we play with for fun and to make our lives better, but it is just a thing. Fly the plane all the way through the crash, tear the wings off to get rid of energy, PULL the DAMN handle, do whatever it takes to give you the best chance of surviving. If you can't get in the mindset to do that you better take up a different hobby. I will get off my soapbox now. Alan Michael Gibbs wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs > >I can see using the BRS after an unintentional encounter with >instrument conditions, a mid-air collision, an engine failure over >bad terrain, or pilot incapacitation. > >A big caveat though, is would you or your passenger be willing and >able to deploy the 'chute under those conditions? Remember that the >BRS is designed to save humans, not airplanes. Pulling that handle > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:50:49 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Builder Tip From: "Mike Couillard" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Mike Couillard" Hi: I've seen various tips on how to ream those 7 rather large bearings (?... Don't have the book in front of me to recall the nomenclature) on the back edge of the horizontal stabilizer, most of which involve creating a long rod and connecting it somehow to this very large reamer. I happened upon another idea when I was doing this last night (maybe this has been tossed out there before, if so I apologize)--quite simple and worked really well. I just took my Makita that accommodates a very thin 4" metal cutting disk, clamped the reamer in a vise and cut a groove in the center of the chuck end of the reamer. That allowed me to use a long heavy duty screwdriver to turn the reamer in each of the bearings (you have to carefully hold/guide the reamer with one hand while turning the screwdriver with the other, until the reamer gets far enough in to seat--doesn't take to long to get to that point). Made a pretty quick job out of it. Hope this helps somebody out there. Lord knows I've received a lot of help from y'all so far! Mike C Series 5 Colorado Springs ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:25:58 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: BRS From: kitfox@gto.net --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net M. Gibbs, That was the best answer i heard yet on the BRS issue. I don't really know the statistics for the BRS but I am surethat it has saved some lives. But the question is was the BRS the only avenue the pilot had at that time. Since we cannot turn back time, I guess we will never know otherwise. You laid out some great examples of how it "could be" beneficial and how it might not. In the case of a Mid air would the pilot or passenger be able to deploy? etc etc. I think that being a responsible and qualified pilot trained in everything from forced approaches to stalls,spins and spirals is a great place to start. As well as being able to handle in-flight emergencies as, fires , engine failures etc. . I think the in-advertant weather thing is something that can be avoided as well. I am not a fan of VFR on top for non IFR pilots as this is a way to get into trouble fast for the in-experienced and un-qualified. Kirby Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: BRS > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs