Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:04 AM - SV: BRS (Michel Verheughe)
2. 03:34 AM - Re: Fuel cap gaskets (Lynn Matteson)
3. 04:42 AM - Re: Foul smell (Lynn Matteson)
4. 12:36 PM - Re: BRS (Michael Gibbs)
5. 12:52 PM - Re: BRS (Vic Jacko)
6. 12:58 PM - What happended?Re: Archeologist (Harris, Robert)
7. 01:27 PM - What happended?Re: Archeologist (Harris, Robert)
8. 02:18 PM - Re: Foul smell (Flybradair@cs.com)
9. 06:15 PM - Re: One part primer (Jeff Smathers)
10. 06:16 PM - To Mike (Rex & Jan Shaw)
11. 06:30 PM - Re: BRS (Jeff Sattin)
12. 08:31 PM - Re: Re: Foul smell (Comp User)
13. 08:35 PM - Re: BRS (jimshumaker)
14. 08:45 PM - Re: BRS (jimshumaker)
15. 08:47 PM - Re: BRS (jimshumaker)
Message 1
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
> From: Michael Gibbs [MichaelGibbs@cox.net]
> A big caveat though, is would you or your passenger be willing and
> able to deploy the 'chute under those conditions?
I think I'll join the main stream of thoughts of this list by saying, modestly,
that yes, ballistic chutes have saved life and yes, once you pull the wire, you're
no longer PIC but merely a passenger.
One year before I started flying, a man of about my age and experienced, flying
from the same airfield, lost the left wing of his Jora microlight aircraft. In
the deadly spin that followed, he didn't manage to reach the wire and pull it.
The main drawback I can see is that a ballistic chute can - for some - give a false
sense of safety. E.g. having a BRS won't make a flight over a large body
of water any safer.
Incidentally, a couple of weeks ago, one of our club's pilot, having an outdated
BRS, decided to fire it, as a demonstration for the club. We watched, at a safe
distance, the chute being fired, while attached to his van. The chute, assembled
in 1991, still worked well. Warning: the aluminium firing shell stays hot
a long time after. Don't ask me how I know! :-)
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel cap gaskets |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Good for you, Michel....now what you have to do is to send Lowell and
me a copy, we will "file" it with our clutter, and if you ever need it
you can just call either one of us....(now where did I put those guys'
phone numbers?....)
Lynn
do not archive
On Tuesday, May 17, 2005, at 03:34 PM, Michel Verheughe wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>
> Lynn, yes, I have written it down on a piece of paper now! :-)
>
Message 3
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Brad-
Congrats of the certification. I'll be needing that done some time this
summer, I hope, and am curious as to what this procedure costs. I was
told by a local FAA guy that they can cost around $300 or so, depending
on who does it....for nearly 5 hours of time that doesn't sound too
bad. Would you mind telling what all he/she did for all that time?
Sounds like they really gave it a going over, and yet I've heard some
of 'em just go through the motions. Would you mind sharing your
experience?
Lynn
On Monday, May 16, 2005, at 03:06 PM, Flybradair@cs.com wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Flybradair@cs.com
>
> Get a bad burning type smell when the cowling is on--this smell is not
> present when the cowling is off. (Taxi testing, has not flown yet.) Do
> you guys
> remember if you possibly had this smell when the engine was run for
> the first
> time? I assume that the fiberglass is just getting used to the heat?
>
> Also, I know this has been discussed in the past---I am concerned
> about the
> low fuel warning light that is already coming on sometimes when
> taxiing even
> with plenty of fuel on board. I did paint the tank black but this
> seems to have
> no effect. Did anyone finally cure the faulty readings or is this
> something
> that I am going to have to try and live with?
>
> By the way----N232WB finally received it's certification from the FAA
> on
> 5-13-05. The DAR that did my plane was there for 4 hours and 45
> minutes!
>
>
> Brad Martin
> Wichita
> N232WB
> 5--LYC o235L2C
>
>
Message 4
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
Alan sez:
>With somewhere around 150 saves the BRS people have learned the answer is yes.
The BRS people count every successful deployment as a "save". In
many cases we will never know if it actually saved the day or if the
plane could have landed successfully without the BRS.
I agree that the airplane is less valuable than the humans aboard,
but that doesn't mean the airplane has no value at all. When we
formed the partnership that owns my Turbo Arrow III, we all agreed
that in a desperate situation we would save the occupants first, the
airplane second, and the engine third. I.e., if you have to mistreat
the engine to save the airplane and occupants, do it. If you have to
sacrifice the airplane to save the passengers, do it.
Some of the wisest advice regarding aviating I've ever heard is:
"Always leave yourself an out." In many cases the BRS has filled
that roll.
Mike G
N728KF
Message 5
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Vic Jacko" <vicwj@earthlink.net>
Mike. Your quote below came from one BG Chuck Yeager!
\I am sure someone else used it in the past before Chuck.
do not archive
Vic
> Some of the wisest advice regarding aviating I've ever heard is:
> "Always leave yourself an out." In many cases the BRS has filled
> that roll.
>
> Mike G
> N728KF
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
Hi Dirk,
What happened in your situation?
Hi Mike,
Was your accident due to wind shear? If so what was your altitude above
ground level?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dirk Slabbert
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Archeologist
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dirk Slabbert"
<dirkslabbert@telkomsa.net>
Mike, looks like I had the same sort of injuries in 2001, can share my
experience if you want.
Regards,
Dirk.
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Gibbs
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: 17 May, 2005 8:34 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Archeologist
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
Hi all,
Yesterday I went digging into the remains of N728KF looking for
additional useable parts and found a lot of useful things. I was
able to recover the fuel filter mounting brackets, the fuel header
tank (still full of fuel we discovered--yikes!), the long-item
storage compartment I had constructed behind the baggage area, the
fuel pump, the fuel flow sensor, the ELT (it will be needing new
batteries :-), the comm and ELT antennas, the cabin speakers, and the
seat belts. And, because I am a sentimental guy, I cut the Kitfox
logo and registration number off the tail for a souvenir.
I was once again impressed by the strength of the structure and
covering of the plane. Even after the abuse it had suffered the
frame and fabric were very tough to cut through to get to some of
these parts. The other thing that was impressive was how incredibly
dirty it was and I became!
As for me, physical therapy continues and my walking is improving
steadily, although I still need a walker for support when on my feet.
I didn't find it too difficult to work on the plane with the walker
there although it is a bit of a hindrance. I have more confidence
that work on the new 'fox will not be significantly slowed by my
continuing recovery. Although a bit wobbly, I did manage to walk
around a bit last weekend using only a cane.
It sure was great to be out in the shop again!
Mike G.
N728KF
Message 7
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
Hi Dirk,
What happened in your situation?
Hi Mike,
Was your accident due to wind shear? If so what was your altitude above
ground level? (when you encountered wind shear)?
Message 8
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Flybradair@cs.com
Hi Lynn
The DAR fee was$500 unless you belong to or join the local EAA chapter here,
then the fee is $250. I could not tell you how this system came about but it
is a great deal. My Tech counselor set me up with this DAR--which is in the
process of flying off 40 hours in a Rans.
When the DAR arrived he was all business--had his FAA hat on and told me that
his role today was the FAA. When finished and passed, the hat came off and he
was a builder/flyer/EAA member. Great guy.
The process started with him e-mailing me a comprehensive checklist that I
was to complete before his arrival. Once started, he basically looked at
everything you can think of-----construction photos, logbooks and entries, paperwork
complete and correct, and the engine/airframe checklist that was gone over one
item at a time. When something would come up (such as angle deflections), he
wanted me to show him in the manual how I arrived at that angle--then prove
it. He brought over his own measuring equipment.
It may sound like much and I was drained after--but it was welcome. (JR-my
Tech counselor, had me prepared)
Since completion--the DAR has contacted local builders close to me and I am
getting to know some. Even had a low pass by one. (I live in the country) A
flight adviser has also contacted me (referred by the DAR) and things are good
right now.
Soon I hope things get even better!
Brad
In a message dated 5/18/05 6:48:47 AM Central Daylight Time, lynnmatt@jps.net
writes:
>
> Congrats of the certification. I'll be needing that done some time this
> summer, I hope, and am curious as to what this procedure costs. I was
> told by a local FAA guy that they can cost around $300 or so, depending
> on who does it....for nearly 5 hours of time that doesn't sound too
> bad. Would you mind telling what all he/she did for all that time?
> Sounds like they really gave it a going over, and yet I've heard some
> of 'em just go through the motions. Would you mind sharing your
> experience?
>
> Lynn
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: One part primer |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jeff Smathers <jsmathers@cybcon.com>
Hi Don,
I used Krylon FUSION for Plastic. I was convinced by some RC
modelers who use it for their RC airplanes. Fuel proof ( Methanol & Alcohol )
and really goes on nice. Dries in 15 minutes.
I tried it as a base coat for my fiberglass cowl and then went over it with
Stits PolyTone so my fabric and fiberglass colors would match. Worked
well for me ! I did a light sanding for "tooth" before the PolyTone.
Jeff Smathers
AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
> Looking for any suggestions on a "one part" primer (even spray cans) that
> will work on fiberglass with Poly Tone as a top coat. As you know, I want to
> stay away from 2 part epoxy type stuff.
>
> Don Smythe
> Classic IV w/ 582
>
Message 10
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
Yesterday I went digging into the remains of N728KF looking for
additional useable parts and found a lot of useful things. I was
able to recover the fuel filter mounting brackets, the fuel header
tank (still full of fuel we discovered--yikes!), the long-item
storage compartment I had constructed behind the baggage area, the
fuel pump, the fuel flow sensor, the ELT (it will be needing new
batteries :-), the comm and ELT antennas, the cabin speakers, and the
seat belts. And, because I am a sentimental guy, I cut the Kitfox
logo and registration number off the tail for a souvenir.
I was once again impressed by the strength of the structure and
covering of the plane. Even after the abuse it had suffered the
frame and fabric were very tough to cut through to get to some of
these parts. The other thing that was impressive was how incredibly
dirty it was and I became!
As for me, physical therapy continues and my walking is improving
steadily, although I still need a walker for support when on my feet.
I didn't find it too difficult to work on the plane with the walker
there although it is a bit of a hindrance. I have more confidence
that work on the new 'fox will not be significantly slowed by my
continuing recovery. Although a bit wobbly, I did manage to walk
around a bit last weekend using only a cane.
It sure was great to be out in the shop again!
Mike G.
N728KF
Hi ! Mike,
great to hear from you especially that you are continuing
to improve. I believe the doctor didn't give you much chance initially. Well
it's your attitude and detirmination that is getting you there. Good on you
! It's great to see you achieve this. It's also great that you are working
on getting up in the air again and that you are getting some good bits out
of the wreck. It's comforting that the Kitfox turns out to be so strong and
that it protected the pilots as well as it did.
Thanks also for your thoughts on the BRS. It was well put. Earlier in my
flying I thought it was a good idea. Now I am starting to think the weight
is a problem and in any case if one flys with care and keeps up with stall
recovery etc anyway then there might well be a good chance of flying the
thing down. Of course maintainence is extremely important.
I think your thoughts on the matter are very well put and worth
considering whether one eventually decides to install a BRS or not. I often
wonder if our planes have an uneccessarilly derated MTOW just to comply to
regulations with the end result that we then can't carry things like a BRS
or other safety or survival gear. The decision should not have to come down
to that for the sake of regulations if indeed the plane is 100% safe at a
higher MTOW.
Rex.
rexjan@bigpond.com
Message 11
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeff Sattin" <livinnmd@comcast.net>
Two friends in my flying club had planes with BRS chutes. One of my
friends had a wing fold on his plane. He said the violence of the
tumbling plane made it very difficult to find the red handle to pull.
Witnesses said he was less that two hundred feet off the ground when the
chute deployed. He walked away from the accident. The plane absorbed a
lot of the energy on impact.
He told me that he always practiced grabbing the red handle as part of
his emergency landing practices. He did not think he would have been
able to find the handle if he had not included it as part of his
emergency landing practiced.
The other friend had a structural failure doing aerobatics.
Investigating the wreckage we could see that he never pulled the handle
to deploy the chute. It was a very sad day.
Jeff Sattin
Series V
Message 12
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Comp User" <trebla@directinter.net>
What are these costs? Both of my planes cost
$ 0.0 Someone is making some extra money.
Message 13
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker" <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
Congratulations Rich
I've alerted the Truck drivers union and bribed the crossing guards so we
are confident of your success.
Jim Shumaker
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Verheughe" <michel@online.no>
Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: BRS
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>
>> From: Michael Gibbs [MichaelGibbs@cox.net]
>> A big caveat though, is would you or your passenger be willing and
>> able to deploy the 'chute under those conditions?
>
> I think I'll join the main stream of thoughts of this list by saying,
> modestly, that yes, ballistic chutes have saved life and yes, once you
> pull the wire, you're no longer PIC but merely a passenger.
>
> One year before I started flying, a man of about my age and experienced,
> flying from the same airfield, lost the left wing of his Jora microlight
> aircraft. In the deadly spin that followed, he didn't manage to reach the
> wire and pull it.
>
> The main drawback I can see is that a ballistic chute can - for some -
> give a false sense of safety. E.g. having a BRS won't make a flight over a
> large body of water any safer.
>
> Incidentally, a couple of weeks ago, one of our club's pilot, having an
> outdated BRS, decided to fire it, as a demonstration for the club. We
> watched, at a safe distance, the chute being fired, while attached to his
> van. The chute, assembled in 1991, still worked well. Warning: the
> aluminium firing shell stays hot a long time after. Don't ask me how I
> know! :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 14
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker" <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
DISREGARD MY PREVIOUS REPLY TO THIS EMAIL. It was a response to another
email.
Jim Shumaker
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Verheughe" <michel@online.no>
Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: BRS
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>
>> From: Michael Gibbs [MichaelGibbs@cox.net]
>> A big caveat though, is would you or your passenger be willing and
>> able to deploy the 'chute under those conditions?
>
> I think I'll join the main stream of thoughts of this list by saying,
> modestly, that yes, ballistic chutes have saved life and yes, once you
> pull the wire, you're no longer PIC but merely a passenger.
>
> One year before I started flying, a man of about my age and experienced,
> flying from the same airfield, lost the left wing of his Jora microlight
> aircraft. In the deadly spin that followed, he didn't manage to reach the
> wire and pull it.
>
> The main drawback I can see is that a ballistic chute can - for some -
> give a false sense of safety. E.g. having a BRS won't make a flight over a
> large body of water any safer.
>
> Incidentally, a couple of weeks ago, one of our club's pilot, having an
> outdated BRS, decided to fire it, as a demonstration for the club. We
> watched, at a safe distance, the chute being fired, while attached to his
> van. The chute, assembled in 1991, still worked well. Warning: the
> aluminium firing shell stays hot a long time after. Don't ask me how I
> know! :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 15
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker" <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
Michel
I am sorry to hear of the demise of your club members. It is always sad for
the group.
Can you share the type and make of aircraft that had the structural
failures so I may eliminate them from my future choices?
Jim Shumaker
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Verheughe" <michel@online.no>
Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: BRS
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>
>> From: Michael Gibbs [MichaelGibbs@cox.net]
>> A big caveat though, is would you or your passenger be willing and
>> able to deploy the 'chute under those conditions?
>
> I think I'll join the main stream of thoughts of this list by saying,
> modestly, that yes, ballistic chutes have saved life and yes, once you
> pull the wire, you're no longer PIC but merely a passenger.
>
> One year before I started flying, a man of about my age and experienced,
> flying from the same airfield, lost the left wing of his Jora microlight
> aircraft. In the deadly spin that followed, he didn't manage to reach the
> wire and pull it.
>
> The main drawback I can see is that a ballistic chute can - for some -
> give a false sense of safety. E.g. having a BRS won't make a flight over a
> large body of water any safer.
>
> Incidentally, a couple of weeks ago, one of our club's pilot, having an
> outdated BRS, decided to fire it, as a demonstration for the club. We
> watched, at a safe distance, the chute being fired, while attached to his
> van. The chute, assembled in 1991, still worked well. Warning: the
> aluminium firing shell stays hot a long time after. Don't ask me how I
> know! :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
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