Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:08 AM - Re: Off-topic but funny (David James)
2. 04:19 AM - Re: Subaru EA81 question (Fox5flyer)
3. 04:30 AM - Low fuel (Steve Zakreski)
4. 04:39 AM - Re: Low fuel (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
5. 04:47 AM - Re: Low fuel (Rick)
6. 10:33 AM - Re: Off-topic but funny (Guy Buchanan)
7. 02:25 PM - Re: Powerfin prop (RGray67968@AOL.COM)
8. 04:13 PM - Re: Powerfin prop (Aerobatics@aol.com)
9. 04:14 PM - Tyres (Rex & Jan Shaw)
10. 06:30 PM - Re: Powerfin prop (Lowell Fitt)
11. 07:05 PM - Re: Powerfin prop (kitfox@gto.net)
12. 07:38 PM - Re: Powerfin prop risk management (ron schick)
13. 07:38 PM - Re: Powerfin prop risk management (ron schick)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Off-topic but funny |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: David James <austgrains@yahoo.com>
--- Rockitfox@aol.com wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Rockitfox@aol.com
>
> I haven't said anything for over two years, but that is funny
It must be very quiet in your house if you dont say anything <G>
__________________________________
Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news and more. Check it out!
http://discover.yahoo.com/mobile.html
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Subaru EA81 question |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
You didn't say how many hours you have on the engine. Mine has about 300 TT
and the compressions have steadily increased since zero time. The last
compression test I made was the best one with about 155 to 166 psi per
cylinder. Some of this may be carbon, but shining a flashlight through the
plug hole shows the piston tops to be fairly clean.
Fly the airplane for awhile then try another test to see if you get the same
readings.
Deke
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
>
> Hi, Deke, and thanks for your response. Yes, the compression test was
done
> with the throttle wide open.
>
> Clem Nichols
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
> To: "Kitfox List" <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Subaru EA81 question
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer"
<morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
> >
> > Clem, the reason the plugs on the left side are sooty is because of the
> > shape of the manifold and is normal for low throttle engine runs. They
> > clear up at flying rpms.
> > As for the compression, did you do it with wide open throttle? That's
> > important to get a good test.
> > Try the test when the engine is cold and let us know the results.
> > Deke
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
> > To: "kitfox list" <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Kitfox-List: Subaru EA81 question
> >
> >
> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
> >>
> >> Yesterday as part of the annual condition inspection on my Model IV
with
> > the NSI EA81 firewall forward package I removed the plugs from my engine
> > in
> > order to check the valve settings. All 4 plugs were tan in color with
no
> > evidence of carbon buildup. Only 3 of the 8 valves required minor
> > adjustment. I then reinstalled the plugs and ran the engine for several
> > minutes at 2000 rpm to warm it up for a compression test.
Unfortunately,
> > I
> > didn't pay any attention to the plugs when I removed them this time, but
> > later noticed that 2 of the 4 were sooty black. (The other 2 were still
> > tan
> > with no soot whatsoever) Needless to say, I don't know which plug came
> > from
> > which cylinder. The compression test showed 160 psi in cylinders 1 and
2
> > (those toward the cockpit) and 148 pounds in cylinders 3 and 4 at the
prop
> > end. All of the above was done with the plane in typical tail-dragger
> > position, so cylinders 3 and 4 were slightly higher than 1 and 2. Also
> > the
> > air filter was removed from!
> >> the Ellison TBI while the engine was run and during the compression
> > test. Obviously the difference in compression can be due to several
> > factors
> > (I didn't do a wet test), but I found it a little unusual that both
> > cylinders toward the rear of the plane showed exactly the same reading
and
> > both cylinders toward the front of the plane also showed exactly the
same
> > reading but 12 pounds less than the others. I also am puzzled by the
fact
> > that 2 of the plugs after the warmup run were sooty while the other 2
were
> > not. Could the unlevel position of the engine during this time have
> > anything to do with the above? I'd appreciate any thoughts or
> > suggestions.
> >>
> >> Clem Nichols
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 3
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski <szakreski@shaw.ca>
Holy smokes Andrew... that's a closer call than I've ever had in my entire
flying career. Be careful! I very rarely land with less than one hour fuel
remaining.
SteveZ
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
AlbertaIV@aol.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Powerfin prop
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 6/4/2005 12:57:25 PM Eastern Standard Time,
spaghettiohead@hotmail.com writes:
Oh, and I flew my first x-country in the 'fox yesterday...I left my home
airport KDAW at 3.15p for KAUG (Augusta, ME) about 100 miles away. Had a
great flight, met a friend for some Dairy Queen, and headed back home. I
was
getting nervous about my fuel state so I shut-off my left wing-tank with
less than a quarter gallon in it - just in case. I was still 15 miles out
of
the airport over solid trees at 2K when my engine started sputtering and
damn near quit! But I was faster than Superman getting that fuel valve open
and ready with a shot of primer...I eased up on the throttle and entered
the
pattern - I was dismayed when, on final approach, I saw the last of my fuel
drip through the in-line filter in the cockpit...I had just enough to land,
taxi off, and even park in front of my hangar ;)
What a great day! Two of my buddies were pulling their planes out, so I
threw another 5 gallons in my right tank and went out for another 1 hr or
so
enjoying the evening and taking lots of pictures! So I got to log 4.1 on my
day off...
Anyway, lessons learned: No more than 3 hrs. at cruise anymore! That leaves
me a comfortable reserve. Number 2: Get a small gas can that I can sling
behind my seat, just in case!
Also, I was using Marvel Mystery Oil for the first time - It seemed to work
okay. I'm gonna pull out the plugs in a couple hours and see how they
look...Does anybody else use MMO in their 2-strokes?
Andrew
Message 4
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 6/5/2005 7:31:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,
szakreski@shaw.ca writes:
Holy smokes Andrew... that's a closer call than I've ever had in my entire
flying career. Be careful! I very rarely land with less than one hour fuel
remaining.
SteveZ
Andrew,
That's why I thought you were kidding. You might also consider a closer
look at the oil you are using. Motor oils are a no-no.
Don Smythe
Classic IV w/ 582
Message 5
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
That's close alright. Don't you have a header tank you could install a low
fuel warning light? May be time for a fuel flow meter with warning. I never
take off with less than 10 and never land with less than five, usually more
on both ends. If you had hit a little head wind someone else might be
telling us about the flight, glad its you though.
Rick
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Off-topic but funny |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
Michel,
It would be funny if it weren't TRUE. I guess that's why I'm a
lurker by nature.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Powerfin prop |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: RGray67968@aol.com
This kind of flying/fuel management shows a complete lack of
responsibility.....and the fact that you post it as if you were 'bragging' about
it amazes me.
If the wind was 1kt in your face you'd be dead right now. Thanks for
sharing.....I'll be sure to never fly around you or with you.
Yup....sometimes the truth hurts....maybe this will knock some sense into you
before you kill yourself.
Rick Gray in Ohio at the Buffalo Farm - Kitfox sold, RV6 Flying, RV8
Finishing, F1 Rocket will be here in 10 days.
Oh, and I flew my first x-country in the 'fox yesterday...I left my home
airport KDAW at 3.15p for KAUG (Augusta, ME) about 100 miles away. Had a
great flight, met a friend for some Dairy Queen, and headed back home. I was
getting nervous about my fuel state so I shut-off my left wing-tank with
less than a quarter gallon in it - just in case. I was still 15 miles out of
the airport over solid trees at 2K when my engine started sputtering and
damn near quit! But I was faster than Superman getting that fuel valve open
and ready with a shot of primer...I eased up on the throttle and entered the
pattern - I was dismayed when, on final approach, I saw the last of my fuel
drip through the in-line filter in the cockpit...I had just enough to land,
taxi off, and even park in front of my hangar ;)
What a great day! Two of my buddies were pulling their planes out, so I
threw another 5 gallons in my right tank and went out for another 1 hr or so
enjoying the evening and taking lots of pictures! So I got to log 4.1 on my
day off...
Anyway, lessons learned: No more than 3 hrs. at cruise anymore! That leaves
me a comfortable reserve. Number 2: Get a small gas can that I can sling
behind my seat, just in case!
Also, I was using Marvel Mystery Oil for the first time - It seemed to work
okay. I'm gonna pull out the plugs in a couple hours and see how they
look...Does anybody else use MMO in their 2-strokes?
Andrew
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Powerfin prop |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Aerobatics@aol.com
I too find this story rather extrodinary being somewhat am paranoid about
fuel. I try to keep very close tabs on my fuel and never have less than one
hour left when I shut down. I believe I fit into the majority here
In fact, I think I never have landed with less than hour plus at shut down.
Point is we have a few things in our control... thats one of them.
Heaven forbid, I may still run out of fuel some day, or make some other dumb
mistake, but this is a lesson to how some people manage risk.
Pretty scarey, makes one think about how he manages other decisions, like to
go or not to go re weather and so on.
Imagine if he had a passenger? That additional payload might have made the
diference of NOT making it and then who knows? !
That type of accident refelcts on ALL of us, especially in the media. .....
I also cringe when someone busts a TFR and it makes headline News. Puts us
one step closer to loosing the freedom of flight. Fact it we are not a
security risk at all, but that doesnt makes news.
I really dont like to be critical about other pilots, I am far far from
perfect, but the story is a lesson...
Fly safe,
Dave Patrick
KF 2 582 BH
Message 9
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
Goodyear has them, 16.5x6.50x8.00 4 ply. I can get you a stock number if
> you want. The ones I bought are primarily for Golf Carts and cost 18
bucks
> apiece.
>
> I have about 200 landings on mine with no problem.
Lynn,
If it's any help these tyres sound like the same as what I bought
here in Australia but we call them Lawnmower tyres.
Anyway they are brilliant in my opinion. They are slightly rounded with very
mild tread pattern. The original scrubbed down ATV tyres did touch a bit
inside the wheel pants but these don't. A better all round choice I think. I
got punctures all the time with the original tyres but haven't had one with
these. Originally I fitted them without tubes and was getting slight
leaking around where the brake disc mounting lugs were welded to the rims.
So just check that area on your rims and if in doubt fit tubes first up. By
the way it is interesting to note they are $18 US as they were $63AU and I
was happy at that.
Also another small point is I run 14PSI in them.
Rex.
rexjan@bigpond.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Powerfin prop |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
I generally agree with the sentiments expressed here, but.
I guess, to each his own regrding risk management. As I mentioned in an
earlier, I am helping a friend with a Lancair IV project. I wonder if I
will be interested in flying with him when it's done. Nothing about the
quality of build, mind you, but I did a scan in the NTSB accident database
early in the build and found that these things kill people. They are flown
at 100kts in the pattern and by inference, you don't want to stall them.
Granted, there is no excuse for running out of fuel, but that is not the
only thing you can run out of and a stall speed in the low 30s gives tons of
hope for a survivable result. I wonder how survivable some of these grease
lightning speed airplanes are with an engine out in terrain. Incidentally,
a lot of the Lancair crashes were near arrival or departure airports.
I guess I feel to mention this because I do things with my airplane that
others might feel violates their comfort level. We leave on the 12th for
our fourth or fifth, I forget, Idaho back country trip. Lots of mountains.
Lots of low level flying, Lots of short mountain strips. Lots of room for
criticism. I suspect we are all in a way living in glass houses. There is
not a one of us here that stands free of potential criticism. That said,
Rick, No thanks if you ever think to ask me to fly with you in your Rocket.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: <RGray67968@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Powerfin prop
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: RGray67968@aol.com
>
> This kind of flying/fuel management shows a complete lack of
> responsibility.....and the fact that you post it as if you were 'bragging'
> about it amazes me.
> If the wind was 1kt in your face you'd be dead right now. Thanks for
> sharing.....I'll be sure to never fly around you or with you.
>
> Yup....sometimes the truth hurts....maybe this will knock some sense into
> you
> before you kill yourself.
>
> Rick Gray in Ohio at the Buffalo Farm - Kitfox sold, RV6 Flying, RV8
> Finishing, F1 Rocket will be here in 10 days.
>
>
> Oh, and I flew my first x-country in the 'fox yesterday...I left my home
> airport KDAW at 3.15p for KAUG (Augusta, ME) about 100 miles away. Had a
> great flight, met a friend for some Dairy Queen, and headed back home. I
> was
> getting nervous about my fuel state so I shut-off my left wing-tank with
> less than a quarter gallon in it - just in case. I was still 15 miles out
> of
> the airport over solid trees at 2K when my engine started sputtering and
> damn near quit! But I was faster than Superman getting that fuel valve
> open
> and ready with a shot of primer...I eased up on the throttle and entered
> the
> pattern - I was dismayed when, on final approach, I saw the last of my
> fuel
> drip through the in-line filter in the cockpit...I had just enough to
> land,
> taxi off, and even park in front of my hangar ;)
>
> What a great day! Two of my buddies were pulling their planes out, so I
> threw another 5 gallons in my right tank and went out for another 1 hr or
> so
> enjoying the evening and taking lots of pictures! So I got to log 4.1 on
> my
> day off...
>
> Anyway, lessons learned: No more than 3 hrs. at cruise anymore! That
> leaves
> me a comfortable reserve. Number 2: Get a small gas can that I can sling
> behind my seat, just in case!
>
> Also, I was using Marvel Mystery Oil for the first time - It seemed to
> work
> okay. I'm gonna pull out the plugs in a couple hours and see how they
> look...Does anybody else use MMO in their 2-strokes?
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Powerfin prop |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
Andrew, you basically screwed up and got away with it this time. Good
lesson and a safe ending.
Kitfox-List message posted by: RGray67968@aol.com
Yup....sometimes the truth hurts....maybe this will knock some sense
into you
> before you kill yourself........... Kinda harsh words buddy.
.................
fuel exhaustion is not a definate cause of a fatality . Just put down
where ever you have to.
I bet you have never done a dead stick landing, should practice up as
it can happen in any aircraft at any time. Be prepared.................
but hey i think stall, spiral and spin traing is important and it has
been swept away by some who feel it not appropiate....... running out
ta gas is only gonna cause a forced approach, ,,,,,,,,,, there are a
good many that when faced with a spin will auger in. ..............
Kirby
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Powerfin prop risk management |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" <roncarolnikko@hotmail.com>
Well put lowell! I often fly at night over the ocean or mountains with an
average wind over 15 kts. This is often my only chance, and location, to
fly so it is just the chance I take. I use caution in my spam can with two
magnetos, enough fuel, and all the practice in the world at screwball
flying. This makes me very comfortable turning my plane around in ZERO room,
coming in hot on the field simulating power out, then slipping to the
numbers, etc etc. Dangerous or reckless to some, but not as reckless as the
Kitfox I am putting a single ignition vw in. Now that's scary. Keep learning
Andrew!
do not archive Ron Oregon 541kf 1117af 67779
>From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Powerfin prop
>Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 18:28:55 -0700
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>
>I generally agree with the sentiments expressed here, but.
>
>I guess, to each his own regrding risk management.
>
>Lowell
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <RGray67968@aol.com>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Powerfin prop
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: RGray67968@aol.com
> >
> > This kind of flying/fuel management shows a complete lack of
> > responsibility.....and the fact that you post it as if you were
>'bragging'
> > about it amazes me.
> >
> > Rick Gray in Ohio
> > headed back home. I
> > was
> > getting nervous about my fuel state so I shut-off my left wing-tank
>with
> > less than a quarter gallon in it - >
> > Anyway, lessons learned: No more than 3 hrs. at cruise anymore! That
> > leaves
> > me a comfortable reserve. >
> > Andrew
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Powerfin prop risk management |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" <roncarolnikko@hotmail.com>
Well put lowell! I often fly at night over the ocean or mountains with an
average wind over 15 kts. This is often my only chance, and location, to
fly so it is just the chance I take. I use caution in my spam can with two
magnetos, enough fuel, and all the practice in the world at screwball
flying. This makes me very comfortable turning my plane around in ZERO room,
coming in hot on the field simulating power out, then slipping to the
numbers, etc etc. Dangerous or reckless to some, but not as reckless as the
Kitfox I am putting a single ignition vw in. Now that's scary. Keep learning
Andrew!
do not archive Ron Oregon 541kf 1117af 67779
>From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Powerfin prop
>Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 18:28:55 -0700
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>
>I generally agree with the sentiments expressed here, but.
>
>I guess, to each his own regrding risk management.
>
>Lowell
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <RGray67968@aol.com>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Powerfin prop
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: RGray67968@aol.com
> >
> > This kind of flying/fuel management shows a complete lack of
> > responsibility.....and the fact that you post it as if you were
>'bragging'
> > about it amazes me.
> >
> > Rick Gray in Ohio
> > headed back home. I
> > was
> > getting nervous about my fuel state so I shut-off my left wing-tank
>with
> > less than a quarter gallon in it - >
> > Anyway, lessons learned: No more than 3 hrs. at cruise anymore! That
> > leaves
> > me a comfortable reserve. >
> > Andrew
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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