Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:57 AM - Fuel Burn (kitfox@gto.net)
2. 04:14 AM - Re: Fuel Burn (kitfox@gto.net)
3. 04:50 AM - Re: Engine RPM was: Fuel Burn (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
4. 05:01 AM - Re: Fuel Burn (Fox5flyer)
5. 05:05 AM - Re: Powerfin prop (Frank & Phyllis)
6. 05:18 AM - Re: Engine RPM was: Fuel Burn (kitfox@gto.net)
7. 05:26 AM - Re: Fuel Burn (kitfox@gto.net)
8. 07:35 AM - off subject but neat. (Noel & Yoshie Simmons)
9. 07:47 AM - Re: Fuel Burn (Andrew Matthaey)
10. 08:00 AM - Lyc/Cont. drivers Airspeeds (Flybradair@cs.com)
11. 08:00 AM - Re: off subject but neat. (Don Pearsall)
12. 08:12 AM - Re: Fuel Burn (kitfox@gto.net)
13. 08:20 AM - Re: Lyc/Cont. drivers Airspeeds (Cliffford Begnaud)
14. 08:33 AM - Re: Fuel Burn (Andrew Matthaey)
15. 08:35 AM - Plugs (Aerobatics@aol.com)
16. 08:47 AM - Re: Fuel Burn (Aerobatics@aol.com)
17. 08:58 AM - WOT important (kitfox@gto.net)
18. 09:15 AM - Insurance Question. (Napier, Mark)
19. 09:36 AM - Re: Insurance Question. (Harris, Robert)
20. 09:55 AM - Re: Insurance Question. (Andrew Matthaey)
21. 10:09 AM - Re: Insurance Question. (Ben Baltrusaitis)
22. 10:28 AM - Re: Insurance Question. (Brett Walmsley)
23. 11:47 AM - Re: Fuel Burn (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
24. 11:49 AM - Re: Fuel Burn (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
25. 12:22 PM - Fw: Fuel Burn PLUG GAP (kitfox@gto.net)
26. 12:35 PM - Re: Insurance Question. (Howard Firm)
27. 02:07 PM - Airmaster (icaza francisco)
28. 02:53 PM - Re: Fw: Fuel Burn PLUG GAP (AlbertaIV@AOL.COM)
29. 03:13 PM - resistor plugs (Clem Nichols)
30. 03:13 PM - Re: Wheel pants installation instructions (Donna and Roger McConnell)
31. 03:44 PM - Re: Insurance Question. (kirk hull)
32. 03:57 PM - Re: Fuel Burn (Andrew Matthaey)
33. 04:48 PM - Re: resistor plugs (Bob Robertson)
34. 06:08 PM - Tyres (Rex & Jan Shaw)
35. 06:58 PM - Re: resistor plugs - Bob Robertson (kitfox@gto.net)
36. 07:19 PM - Re: resistor plugs - Bob Robertson (Jerry Liles)
37. 08:00 PM - Re: Engine RPM was: Fuel Burn (Bruce Harrington)
38. 08:11 PM - A Bargain For You? (srud0fc02@sneakemail.com)
39. 08:22 PM - Re: A Bargain For You? (Don Pearsall)
40. 08:37 PM - Re: Engine RPM was: Fuel Burn (Andrew Matthaey)
41. 09:10 PM - Re: A Bargain For You? (Jeff Hubbard)
42. 10:57 PM - In-flight prop fuel burn (Andrew Matthaey)
43. 11:47 PM - SV: In-flight prop fuel burn (Michel Verheughe)
Message 1
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
582 rotax.
Your power band is about 5500 to 6400 rpm.
I find that mine runs well 5800 to 6000 and i get about 4 to 4.5
gal/hr.
Andrew what do you get static and WOT in flight? for RPMS?
Prop pitch can have a big effect on your plugs and egts.
5200 rpm is just idling really --good for slow flight , search and
rescue and base leg but it really is lugging engine fora cruise.
I have to look later but i sure you can find it on web somewhere is a
chart showing you torque curves for 582. 5200 i would venture to
guess it aobut 40 hp or so.
Oil, I have used pennzoil and bombardier XPS mineral oil only. And No
troubles.
Stay away from TCW3 Rating oils as they are for outboards and rotax
needs a API-TC oil which is not outboard oil. And Synthetics --no
thanks. They do lubicate but if you do not use your engine several time
a week every week, you maybe get some lack of moisture proofing of your
bearings aand a failure could result.
Kirby
Message 2
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
Here is one article read this
http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/s.parker/tech_tips.htm
The charts above are for a Rotax 582. Rotax recommend wide open
throttle rpm of around 6500-6800. From the graphs above that puts you
around the peak of the power curve, but past the peak of the torque
curve. It's power you are after for take-off and climb, so that's the
right place to be.
Now suppose you decide to be kind to your engine, and overprop it so
that wide open throttle is 6000 rpm- about 10% down in rpm. You will
be slightly down in power, but not much- that's fine. But you will be
7% up in torque (from 70 to 75 Nm). Back on that stress/life curve,
that 7% increase in stress results in a life reduction of around 50%.
In other words, for every minute you are operating 6000rpm at wide open
throttle, you are consuming twice the engine life that you would if you
pitched your prop for 6500rpm.
But you aren't in the wide open throttle regime for long, so let's also
consider cruise performance, where you spend most of the engine time
It takes a given amount of power to cruise at a given airspeed. You
get that power from rpm and torque. If you save on rpm by overpitching
your prop, you have to make up the horsepower with extra torque, and by
now you can probably guess where that leads you.
Lets say you overpitch your prop a little to give a small (5%)
reduction in cruise rpm. A 5% reduction in cruise rpm is going to
require a 5% increase in engine torque to keep you flying straight and
level at your cruise speed.
From the Arrhenius stress/life curves, that 5% increase in stress is
going to consume engine life about 35% faster than if you ran the
engine more lightly loaded at higher rpm . And this is in the regime
where you will spend almost all your flying time.
Yes, your revs are down a bit, so it will take slightly longer to use
up those cycles, but nowhere as much gain as you lose in total cycles.
And while we are on the subject, that horrible chattering your hear
when you run up or run down or idle below 2000 rpm is another case of
high stresses eating up your flying time.
Now there are a host of other factors to consider in setting your prop
pitch- take-off, climb and cruise performance; engine cooling; noise;
prop tip speed and efficiency; etc. So you can't take a purist view as
I have above.
But still best in my view to set your prop for recommended static and
takeoff rpm, and let your cruise rpms lie where they fall. The cruise
rpm may be higher than you want, but the engine will not be working so
hard, and you won't be consuming life so quickly. And minimise the
time in that killer under 2000 rpm regime.
Leave the HALT testing to the pointy-headed maniacal white-coated test
engineers in the lab-not recommended for while you are flying.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Engine RPM was: Fuel Burn |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 6/7/2005 4:36:26 AM Eastern Standard Time,
spaghettiohead@hotmail.com writes:
Running the 582 at 5800 is actually preferred? Why is that? I heard
something about that from a friend, but I still find it hard to
believe...The wear on the engine is greater at that speed than at a lower
RPM, so what benefits do you get from running so high that outweigh the
extra wear and fuel burn?
Also, I pulled my plugs - the very tips of the electrodes were a nice tan
color, but the rest of the plugs were fouled - covered in carbon...I don't
know too much about how to read them to see how my engine is running - any
information would be appreciated!
Thanks!
Andrew
Andrew,
Others have answered the RPM thing better than I could. The Tan color
is what you are looking for and the rest of the plug might have a lot of
black. I set my jets/prop pitch to get the following and nobody has ever said
I
was wrong.
Fly the plane and give it full throttle in absolute level flight. You
should have EGT's just shy of 1200 and RPM's just at 6800. You then have a
good match of Jets and Prop Pitch.
BTW, I just heard Mike Stratman (the Rotax Guru) say that reading plugs
was not all that good a method. I don't know "why" he said that???? It
might be that a short period of idling can slightly foul the plugs and give you
false indications??? Maybe the recommendation to kill the power in flight
might give you the best color indication. At least, it makes sense.
Don Smythe
Classic IV w/ 582
Message 4
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
When I read what your message below I thought it was very well written then
decided to check out the link you posted. I'm not sure if I totally agree
with all that was posted, but that's when I realized you didn't write this,
but quoted from the article. It's not a real big deal, but it might have
been better if you'd noted in your message that you were quoting someone
else's writing.
Deke
> Here is one article read this
> http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/s.parker/tech_tips.htm
>
>
> The charts above are for a Rotax 582. Rotax recommend wide open
> throttle rpm of around 6500-6800. From the graphs above that puts you
> around the peak of the power curve, but past the peak of the torque
> curve. It's power you are after for take-off and climb, so that's the
> right place to be.
>
>
> Now suppose you decide to be kind to your engine, and overprop it so
> that wide open throttle is 6000 rpm- about 10% down in rpm. You will
> be slightly down in power, but not much- that's fine. But you will be
> 7% up in torque (from 70 to 75 Nm). Back on that stress/life curve,
> that 7% increase in stress results in a life reduction of around 50%.
>
>
> In other words, for every minute you are operating 6000rpm at wide open
> throttle, you are consuming twice the engine life that you would if you
> pitched your prop for 6500rpm.
>
>
> But you aren't in the wide open throttle regime for long, so let's also
> consider cruise performance, where you spend most of the engine time
>
>
> It takes a given amount of power to cruise at a given airspeed. You
> get that power from rpm and torque. If you save on rpm by overpitching
> your prop, you have to make up the horsepower with extra torque, and by
> now you can probably guess where that leads you.
>
>
> Lets say you overpitch your prop a little to give a small (5%)
> reduction in cruise rpm. A 5% reduction in cruise rpm is going to
> require a 5% increase in engine torque to keep you flying straight and
> level at your cruise speed.
>
>
> From the Arrhenius stress/life curves, that 5% increase in stress is
> going to consume engine life about 35% faster than if you ran the
> engine more lightly loaded at higher rpm . And this is in the regime
> where you will spend almost all your flying time.
>
>
> Yes, your revs are down a bit, so it will take slightly longer to use
> up those cycles, but nowhere as much gain as you lose in total cycles.
>
>
> And while we are on the subject, that horrible chattering your hear
> when you run up or run down or idle below 2000 rpm is another case of
> high stresses eating up your flying time.
>
>
> Now there are a host of other factors to consider in setting your prop
> pitch- take-off, climb and cruise performance; engine cooling; noise;
> prop tip speed and efficiency; etc. So you can't take a purist view as
> I have above.
>
>
> But still best in my view to set your prop for recommended static and
> takeoff rpm, and let your cruise rpms lie where they fall. The cruise
> rpm may be higher than you want, but the engine will not be working so
> hard, and you won't be consuming life so quickly. And minimise the
> time in that killer under 2000 rpm regime.
>
>
> Leave the HALT testing to the pointy-headed maniacal white-coated test
> engineers in the lab-not recommended for while you are flying.
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Powerfin prop |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Frank & Phyllis <frank.phyllis@mindspring.com>
I agree with Fred's note. Andrew, I'm glad it worked so that you were
able to write about it. Your story has obviously touched lots on this
list at the emotional level. That's where learning can be branded into
the brain.
As aforementiond, there are ways to measure fuel consumption, the
importance of doing so, and personal fuel reserves folks have
assigned to themselves. For those of us flying in the USA, at least one
other thing warrants mentioning: FAR 91.151.
Frank
Do not archive
Fred Shiple wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Fred Shiple <fredshiple@sbcglobal.net>
>
>Andrew,
>Thanks for the education. It takes a lot of guts to
>'fess up and since most of us aren't perfect, most of
>us can learn from your experience.
>Fred
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Engine RPM was: Fuel Burn |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
Yup , 2 strokes do not like to run outside of power band or you most
likely will be lugging them. try flying your 172 at 1800 rpm and see
how much power you got.
Kirby
This is the summary from
http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/s.parker/tech_tips.htm
<
Lets say you overpitch your prop a little to give a small (5%)
reduction in cruise rpm. A 5% reduction in cruise rpm is going to
require a 5% increase in engine torque to keep you flying straight and
level at your cruise speed.
From the Arrhenius stress/life curves, that 5% increase in stress is
going to consume engine life about 35% faster than if you ran the
engine more lightly loaded at higher rpm . And this is in the regime
where you will spend almost all your flying time.
Message 7
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
Deke, You have too much time on your hand to be able to whine about
stuff like this .
NOTE THE LINK I SENT WAS POSTED......and i posted the atricle in full.
Excuse me for not writing in a language you understood.
And that article is totally on topic and i am not sure how accuarte
,but it sure does point to what seems to be reality on 582s.. 5800 to
6000 rpm does bode better than 5200 cruise.
Go fetch another coffee, sheeshh
Kirby........
<<> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer"
<morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
>
>
> When I read what your message below I thought it was very well
written then
> decided to check out the link you posted. I'm not sure if I totally
agree
> with all that was posted, but that's when I realized you didn't write
this,
> but quoted from the article. It's not a real big deal, but it might
have
> been better if you'd noted in your message that you were quoting
someone
> else's writing.
> Deke
>
> > Here is one article read this
> > http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/s.parker/tech_tips.htm
Message 8
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| Subject: | off subject but neat. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" <noel@blueskyaviation.net>
List some time ago Sid asked for pictures of my cub kit I am developing so
here is the prototype pictures.
Noel
Message 9
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andrew Matthaey" <spaghettiohead@hotmail.com>
Thanks everyone for the information and input! I'm gonna go check my idle
WOT RPM and in-flight WOT RPM now...and what exactly is spark plug gap for
the 582....015?
Thanks!
Andrew
On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to
get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement
Message 10
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| Subject: | Lyc/Cont. drivers Airspeeds |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Flybradair@cs.com
Looking for airspeeds to get an idea what to expect before first flight. Can
some of you Lyc/Cont. drivers furnish me with some numbers?
Would like to know;
Rotate(Vr),
Best rate of climb(Vy),
Best angle of climb(Vx),
Best glide speed,
Stall speed(Vs1),
Approach speed,
I know that speeds can vary from plane to plane but sure would like some of
your numbers for reference.
Thanks!
Brad Martin
5 Lyc o-235
Wichita
N232WB
Empty Weight--921.
Message 11
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| Subject: | off subject but neat. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
Noel,
If the photo was meant to be attached to the message, it got stripped off.
This system does not allow photos attached to emails. You can post the photo
anywhere, and just send the link to it. If your own server does not allow
photos try posting at www.sportflight.com and then tell us what category it
is in.
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel & Yoshie
Simmons
Subject: Kitfox-List: off subject but neat.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons"
<noel@blueskyaviation.net>
List some time ago Sid asked for pictures of my cub kit I am developing so
here is the prototype pictures.
Noel
Message 12
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
Andrew, I use BR8ES and set them at ,20 specs call for .16 to .20
BUT
ducati ignition has a poor spark at low rpm . you will need min. 250
rpm from your starter to fire it up usually. I have a c box 3:1
ratio and have no problem hand proping it either. In winter the hand
prop usally works better on cold engine as the battery in plane will
not spin it faster enough without a jump. Now in summer it not really
a issue. I have about 30 hours on plugs right now and prolly will
change in next 10 hours.
I might try those new iridium plugs, but have not bought em yet. I got
them in My honda with 120,000 kilometers on em (about 75k miles_) and
they are still originals.
Have a good flight -------- i was out a ahour ago for 45 mins winds 10
knot of TO now 16 gusting 20 here.
Kirby .......
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andrew Matthaey"
<spaghettiohead@hotmail.com>
>
> Thanks everyone for the information and input! I'm gonna go check my
idle
> WOT RPM and in-flight WOT RPM now...and what exactly is spark plug
gap for
> the 582....015?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Andrew
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Lyc/Cont. drivers Airspeeds |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cliffford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
Brad,
All numbers below are with half flaps and in Statute MPH.
Vr=50
Vy=75
Vx=60
Best Glide=70
Vs (no flaps)=52
Vso (half flaps)=48
Approach speed (half flaps)= 70 on downwind, 65 on base, 60 on final
approach until on short final, then 55 on short final, then I slow it way
down. No need to get too slow until you get accustomed to the plane. You can
peel off any extra speed in ground effect until you are comfortable flying
at low speeds.
If you will approach with no flaps, add 5 mph to the final and short final
speed.
As you mentioned, your speeds may be different.
Good luck,
Cliff
Erie, Co
S5, Lyc 0-235
Empty weight 870 lbs
> Looking for airspeeds to get an idea what to expect before first flight.
> Can
> some of you Lyc/Cont. drivers furnish me with some numbers?
>
> Would like to know;
> Rotate(Vr),
> Best rate of climb(Vy),
> Best angle of climb(Vx),
> Best glide speed,
> Stall speed(Vs1),
> Approach speed,
>
> I know that speeds can vary from plane to plane but sure would like some
> of
> your numbers for reference.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Brad Martin
> 5 Lyc o-235
> Wichita
> N232WB
> Empty Weight--921.
>
Message 14
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andrew Matthaey" <spaghettiohead@hotmail.com>
So I should use the Resistor plugs? I had heard that they shouldn't be used
because they would eat up too much energy from the spark.
Andrew
>From: kitfox@gto.net
>Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel Burn
>Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:11:56 -0400
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
>
>Andrew, I use BR8ES and set them at ,20 specs call for .16 to .20
>BUT
>ducati ignition has a poor spark at low rpm . you will need min. 250
>rpm from your starter to fire it up usually. I have a c box 3:1
>ratio and have no problem hand proping it either. In winter the hand
>prop usally works better on cold engine as the battery in plane will
>not spin it faster enough without a jump. Now in summer it not really
>a issue. I have about 30 hours on plugs right now and prolly will
>change in next 10 hours.
>
>I might try those new iridium plugs, but have not bought em yet. I got
>them in My honda with 120,000 kilometers on em (about 75k miles_) and
>they are still originals.
>
>Have a good flight -------- i was out a ahour ago for 45 mins winds 10
>knot of TO now 16 gusting 20 here.
>
>
>Kirby .......
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andrew Matthaey"
><spaghettiohead@hotmail.com>
> >
> > Thanks everyone for the information and input! I'm gonna go check my
>idle
> > WOT RPM and in-flight WOT RPM now...and what exactly is spark plug
>gap for
> > the 582....015?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Andrew
>
>
Message 15
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Aerobatics@aol.com
yes I agree...
I gap mine on the tight side, I believe it makes for easier starts.... not
to mention, in time it opens a bit... so usually 16 to 17 max.
It starts well in winter.... always...winter here in East Central Ill.
I usually never go past about 25 hours... I can tell when it starts to
idle a but rough. OK OK maybe in my mind it seems that way :-)
Lastly WOT RPM is very important ..a lot has been said, but, it seems when
all is said and done....the factory seems to know more than all of us. They
have a better overview.
I see about 6,550 @ 55 mph climb seems to work well, and I might even take
a bit of pitch out to get higher RPM... so when I am cruising, ( 5,600,
5,700 80 to 85 MPH indicated) there is less load on engine..
So when one asks, what RPM you cruise at, thats kinda a loaded question...
like what rpm do you cruise your car and at what gear...?
Great fun learning and fine tuning...
Dave P
KF 2 582 Blue Head E Box IVO Prop
Message 16
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Aerobatics@aol.com
In a message dated 6/7/2005 10:35:10 AM Central Daylight Time,
spaghettiohead@hotmail.com writes:
So I should use the Resistor plugs? I had heard that they shouldn't be used
because they would eat up too much energy from the spark.
Andrew
Ifyou have a radio...use em R plugs work fine..
Message 17
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
Dave , Yes you hit nail on head.
The 582 gets mx torgue and HP over 6k i think.
To each his own but 5800 to 6000 works well for me and WOT i run 6200
to 6400 @ 15.3/4 D pitch. if i go to 15 D i get 6600 + WOT and will
lsoe about 5 mph but gain 200 fpm climb.
Kirby
Lastly WOT RPM is very important ..a lot has been said, but, it seems
when
> all is said and done....the factory seems to know more than all of
us. They
> have a better overview.
>
> I see about 6,550 @ 55 mph climb seems to work well, and I might
even take
> a bit of pitch out to get higher RPM... so when I am cruising, (
5,600,
> 5,700 80 to 85 MPH indicated) there is less load on engine..
> So when one asks, what RPM you cruise at, thats kinda a loaded
question...
> like what rpm do you cruise your car and at what gear...?
Message 18
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| Subject: | Insurance Question. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Napier, Mark" <Mark.Napier@sciatl.com>
An insurance question:
I've got my KFIII back to being a powered project and have been doing
low-speed taxi testing and tied down run-ups. I think I can get the
condition inspection signed of in a week or two.
Now I would actually like to *fly* the thing. I've found a very good
instructor willing to give me dual in the Kitfox but he wants liability
insurance on the airframe before he will stick a toe in it.
So I gave AOPA a call and they said that unless I have 25 hours of
tail-dragger time they don't know of a company that will insure the
airframe, regardless of who is named as pilot in command.
If that's true, how does anyone purchase an aircraft to train in???
Anyone know for sure of a good alternative?
Thanks in advance,
Mark Napier
- - - - - - - Appended by Scientific-Atlanta, Inc. - - - - - - -
This e-mail and any attachments may contain information which is confidential,
proprietary, privileged or otherwise protected by law. The information is solely
intended for the named addressee (or a person responsible for delivering it
to the addressee). If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you
are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy or disseminate this message or
any part of it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the
sender immediately by return e-mail and delete it from your computer.
Message 19
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| Subject: | Insurance Question. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
Call Falcon Insurance. They may be able to help you.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Napier, Mark
Subject: Kitfox-List: Insurance Question.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Napier, Mark" <Mark.Napier@sciatl.com>
An insurance question:
I've got my KFIII back to being a powered project and have been doing
low-speed taxi testing and tied down run-ups. I think I can get the
condition inspection signed of in a week or two.
Now I would actually like to *fly* the thing. I've found a very good
instructor willing to give me dual in the Kitfox but he wants liability
insurance on the airframe before he will stick a toe in it.
So I gave AOPA a call and they said that unless I have 25 hours of
tail-dragger time they don't know of a company that will insure the
airframe, regardless of who is named as pilot in command.
If that's true, how does anyone purchase an aircraft to train in???
Anyone know for sure of a good alternative?
Thanks in advance,
Mark Napier
- - - - - - - Appended by Scientific-Atlanta, Inc. - - - - - - -
This e-mail and any attachments may contain information which is
confidential, proprietary, privileged or otherwise protected by law. The
information is solely intended for the named addressee (or a person
responsible for delivering it to the addressee). If you are not the intended
recipient of this message, you are not authorized to read, print, retain,
copy or disseminate this message or any part of it. If you have received
this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail
and delete it from your computer.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Insurance Question. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andrew Matthaey" <spaghettiohead@hotmail.com>
Or find a better instructor ;)
Andrew
>From: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
>Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>To: "'kitfox-list@matronics.com'" <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Insurance Question.
>Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 09:35:11 -0700
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert"
><Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
>
>Call Falcon Insurance. They may be able to help you.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Napier, Mark
>To: 'kitfox-list@matronics.com'
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Insurance Question.
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Napier, Mark" <Mark.Napier@sciatl.com>
>
>An insurance question:
>
>I've got my KFIII back to being a powered project and have been doing
>low-speed taxi testing and tied down run-ups. I think I can get the
>condition inspection signed of in a week or two.
>
>Now I would actually like to *fly* the thing. I've found a very good
>instructor willing to give me dual in the Kitfox but he wants liability
>insurance on the airframe before he will stick a toe in it.
>
>So I gave AOPA a call and they said that unless I have 25 hours of
>tail-dragger time they don't know of a company that will insure the
>airframe, regardless of who is named as pilot in command.
>
>If that's true, how does anyone purchase an aircraft to train in???
>
>Anyone know for sure of a good alternative?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Mark Napier
>
>
> - - - - - - - Appended by Scientific-Atlanta, Inc. - - - - - - -
>This e-mail and any attachments may contain information which is
>confidential, proprietary, privileged or otherwise protected by law. The
>information is solely intended for the named addressee (or a person
>responsible for delivering it to the addressee). If you are not the
>intended
>recipient of this message, you are not authorized to read, print, retain,
>copy or disseminate this message or any part of it. If you have received
>this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail
>and delete it from your computer.
>
>
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Insurance Question. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ben Baltrusaitis" <ben@gmpexpress.net>
Mark, call EAA 866-647-4322
----- Original Message -----
From: Napier, Mark
To: 'kitfox-list@matronics.com'
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 12:13 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Insurance Question.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Napier, Mark" <Mark.Napier@sciatl.com>
An insurance question:
I've got my KFIII back to being a powered project and have been doing
low-speed taxi testing and tied down run-ups. I think I can get the
condition inspection signed of in a week or two.
Now I would actually like to *fly* the thing. I've found a very good
instructor willing to give me dual in the Kitfox but he wants liability
insurance on the airframe before he will stick a toe in it.
So I gave AOPA a call and they said that unless I have 25 hours of
tail-dragger time they don't know of a company that will insure the
airframe, regardless of who is named as pilot in command.
If that's true, how does anyone purchase an aircraft to train in???
Anyone know for sure of a good alternative?
Thanks in advance,
Mark Napier
- - - - - - - Appended by Scientific-Atlanta, Inc. - - - - - - -
This e-mail and any attachments may contain information which is confidential,
proprietary, privileged or otherwise protected by law. The information is solely
intended for the named addressee (or a person responsible for delivering
it to the addressee). If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you
are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy or disseminate this message
or any part of it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the
sender immediately by return e-mail and delete it from your computer.
--
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Insurance Question. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" <kitfox4@numail.org>
Be careful.
If it WILL fly and you start the engine you really should protect yourself
with at least liability coverage.
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Napier, Mark" <Mark.Napier@sciatl.com>
>
> An insurance question:
>
> I've got my KFIII back to being a powered project and have been doing
> low-speed taxi testing and tied down run-ups. I think I can get the
> condition inspection signed of in a week or two.
>
> Now I would actually like to *fly* the thing. I've found a very good
> instructor willing to give me dual in the Kitfox but he wants liability
> insurance on the airframe before he will stick a toe in it.
>
> So I gave AOPA a call and they said that unless I have 25 hours of
> tail-dragger time they don't know of a company that will insure the
> airframe, regardless of who is named as pilot in command.
>
> If that's true, how does anyone purchase an aircraft to train in???
>
> Anyone know for sure of a good alternative?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Mark Napier
>
>
> - - - - - - - Appended by Scientific-Atlanta, Inc. - - - - - - -
> This e-mail and any attachments may contain information which is
> confidential, proprietary, privileged or otherwise protected by law. The
> information is solely intended for the named addressee (or a person
> responsible for delivering it to the addressee). If you are not the
> intended recipient of this message, you are not authorized to read, print,
> retain, copy or disseminate this message or any part of it. If you have
> received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by
> return e-mail and delete it from your computer.
>
>
Message 23
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 6/7/2005 10:48:31 AM Eastern Standard Time,
spaghettiohead@hotmail.com writes:
Thanks everyone for the information and input! I'm gonna go check my idle
WOT RPM and in-flight WOT RPM now...and what exactly is spark plug gap for
the 582....015?
Thanks!
Andrew
Andrew,
I started off on the wider gap (around .020) and found that setting them
to the thinner side made a big improvement. I use .016"
Don Smythe
Classic IV w/ 582
Message 24
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 6/7/2005 11:35:10 AM Eastern Standard Time,
spaghettiohead@hotmail.com writes:
So I should use the Resistor plugs? I had heard that they shouldn't be used
because they would eat up too much energy from the spark.
Andrew
You can use resistor plugs and resistor caps together. If you have a radio
and experience noise, you can try which combination gets rid of the noise.
Resistor plugs (NGK BR8ES) is the lesser expensive to start off with. I had
to use both R plugs and caps.
Don Smythe
Classic IV w/ 582
Message 25
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| Subject: | Fuel Burn PLUG GAP |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
Plug gap is by the book from Rotax 020.
Best is .18 to .20
Where do you get this .016 spec from ? certainly not a rotax
mechanic?
Plugs changed on a CDI 582 will not erode 004 thousands in 25 or 40
hours.
Kirby
PS What is the big improvemnt you talk about ?
>
> Andrew,
> I started off on the wider gap (around .020) and found that
setting them
> to the thinner side made a big improvement. I use .016"
>
> Don Smythe
> Classic IV w/ 582
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: Insurance Question. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Howard Firm" <pianome2@mchsi.com>
Try this company also...This is who I use.
SkySmith Insurance Agency, Inc
518 SW 3rd Street Suite B, Ankeny, IA 50021
Phone: 515-289-1439 w Fax: 515-964-0431
Email: sales@skysmith.com
Web site: http://www.skysmith.com
Howard Firm
508 12th St. South
Virginia MN 55792
Message 27
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: icaza francisco <franicaza@yahoo.com.mx>
Hello list,
Is there someone that has an Airmaster constant speed
propeller?
How efficient is that system in a KitFox?
Thanks in advance,
Francisco Icaza
Classic IV
La mejor conexin a Internet y 2GB extra a tu correo por $100 al mes. http://net.yahoo.com.mx
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Burn PLUG GAP |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 6/7/2005 3:24:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, kitfox@gto.net
writes:
Plug gap is by the book from Rotax 020.
Best is .18 to .20
Where do you get this .016 spec from ? certainly not a rotax
mechanic?
Plugs changed on a CDI 582 will not erode 004 thousands in 25 or 40
hours.
Kirby
PS What is the big improvemnt you talk about ?
Well Kirby,
Technically, you may be correct. My Rotax manual is at the hanger.
However, during the past 10 years there has been a lot of discussion on this
subject alone. There are "NUMEROUS" web sites that recommend tightening up the
plug gap (I just check and they are still there). And yes, I talked with a
Rotax dealer (name not mentioned) about this and they agreed. BTW, there are
other things in the Rotax Manual that might be in question or have been
updated due to new and improved information and testing.
The obvious improvements were quicker and better starts along with
smoother running in the lower RPM range. Quicker starts where real obvious in
my
case. The engine would start on the first blade
Don Smythe
Classic IV w/ 582
Message 29
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
According to guru Mike Stratman at California Power Systems, it may not be a good
idea to use resistor plugs in combination with resistor plug caps (although
I've never experienced a problem in doing so)
Clem Nichols
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | Wheel pants installation instructions |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Donna and Roger McConnell" <rdmac@swbell.net>
To Lynn, Gary, Jimmie and anybody else, my apologies, I have tried to send
these 11 jpeg images to all of you but apparently because of the size and
amount of data it is too big for anyone to receive it. I have even tried to
send only a portion of these instructions and still for some reason they can
not be viewed or printed off. For anyone still interested, you can e-mail me
off list your mailing address and I will mail you a copy.
Roger Mac
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wheel pants installation instructions
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
...yes, by several of us on the group. I for one.
Thanks,
Lynn
On Monday, June 6, 2005, at 08:58 PM, <gjglh@cebridge.net> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: <gjglh@cebridge.net>
>
> Roger,
> Were you able to scan your wheel pants installation drawings. They
> sure would
> be appreciated.
>
> Thanks
> Gary
Message 31
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| Subject: | Insurance Question. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirk hull" <kirkhull@sbcglobal.net>
You should find another airplane to train in as you can not have an
instructor in the aircraft until the 40 hrs are flown.
Even if you get insurance it will be void because the aircraft is not being
operated leagally. Another option if you do not feel qualified to do the 40
by your self is to find another pilot in your area that is familiar with thr
kitfox and have them fly it off. I know this because, after being laid off
from American Airlines I have now become A liscensed insurance agent in MO &
KS
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Napier, Mark
Subject: Kitfox-List: Insurance Question.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Napier, Mark" <Mark.Napier@sciatl.com>
An insurance question:
I've got my KFIII back to being a powered project and have been doing
low-speed taxi testing and tied down run-ups. I think I can get the
condition inspection signed of in a week or two.
Now I would actually like to *fly* the thing. I've found a very good
instructor willing to give me dual in the Kitfox but he wants liability
insurance on the airframe before he will stick a toe in it.
So I gave AOPA a call and they said that unless I have 25 hours of
tail-dragger time they don't know of a company that will insure the
airframe, regardless of who is named as pilot in command.
If that's true, how does anyone purchase an aircraft to train in???
Anyone know for sure of a good alternative?
Thanks in advance,
Mark Napier
- - - - - - - Appended by Scientific-Atlanta, Inc. - - - - - - -
This e-mail and any attachments may contain information which is
confidential, proprietary, privileged or otherwise protected by law. The
information is solely intended for the named addressee (or a person
responsible for delivering it to the addressee). If you are not the intended
recipient of this message, you are not authorized to read, print, retain,
copy or disseminate this message or any part of it. If you have received
this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail
and delete it from your computer.
Message 32
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andrew Matthaey" <spaghettiohead@hotmail.com>
>Andrew,
> I started off on the wider gap (around .020) and found that setting
>them
>to the thinner side made a big improvement. I use .016"
>
>Don Smythe
>Classic IV w/ 582
>
Thanks Don - I've already changed the plugs. I figured a happy medium
between everything I was hearing was .016, so that's what I did. Then
afterwards I thought: well gee, why don't I check the gap on the old plugs?
They were .016 as well...Thanks...it's good to know that the gap works,
cause I didn't start up today.
Andrew
>From: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel Burn
>Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 14:45:51 EDT
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
>
>In a message dated 6/7/2005 10:48:31 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>spaghettiohead@hotmail.com writes:
>
>
>Thanks everyone for the information and input! I'm gonna go check my idle
>WOT RPM and in-flight WOT RPM now...and what exactly is spark plug gap for
>the 582....015?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Andrew
>
>
>Andrew,
> I started off on the wider gap (around .020) and found that setting
>them
>to the thinner side made a big improvement. I use .016"
>
>Don Smythe
>Classic IV w/ 582
>
>
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
Message 33
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|
| Subject: | Re: resistor plugs |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Robertson" <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
That information in the CPS cataloge re: resistor plugs and caps is
ANCIENT....... The book needs to be updated badly.
Rotax has been shipping engines with resistor caps AND plugs since
1991......
If you have a CDI ignition you can use the resistor cap and the plug
together... If you have an ancient points engine you can run either one but
not both together.
I bet I get asked that question at least once a week because of that
outdated piece of information.
I hope this helps
Bob Robertson
Light Engine Services Ltd.
Rotax Service Center
St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
www.rtx-av-engines.ca
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: resistor plugs
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
>
> According to guru Mike Stratman at California Power Systems, it may not be
a good idea to use resistor plugs in combination with resistor plug caps
(although I've never experienced a problem in doing so)
>
> Clem Nichols
>
>
Message 34
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
What brand are yours, Rex? And size, etc.?
Lynn
On Sunday, June 5, 2005, at 06:05 PM, Rex & Jan Shaw wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw"
> <rexjan@bigpond.com>
>
> Goodyear has them, 16.5x6.50x8.00 4 ply. I can get you a stock number
> if
>> you want. The ones I bought are primarily for Golf Carts and cost 18
> bucks
>> apiece.
>>
>> I have about 200 landings on mine with no problem.
Lynn,
my tyres are !8 X 6.50 x 8 4 ply. They are made in USA but I
can't remember the Brand. I'll have to look when next I go up to the
Airport. however I think they might have been Goodyear.
Rex.
rexjan@bigpond.com
Message 35
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|
| Subject: | Re: resistor plugs - Bob Robertson |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
Bob, are you a rotax Dealer? If so what credentials do you have to tell
us what the plug gap should be on a 582 with ducati igntion ?
I want to put this issue to rest .016 or .018 or .020.
you just pointed out that CPS is incorrect,
kirby
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Robertson"
<aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
>
> That information in the CPS cataloge re: resistor plugs and caps is
> ANCIENT....... The book needs to be updated badly.
> Rotax has been shipping engines with resistor caps AND plugs since
> 1991......
> If you have a CDI ignition you can use the resistor cap and the plug
> together... If you have an ancient points engine you can run either
one but
> not both together.
> I bet I get asked that question at least once a week because of that
> outdated piece of information.
>
> I hope this helps
>
> Bob Robertson
> Light Engine Services Ltd.
> Rotax Service Center
> St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
> Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
> Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
> www.rtx-av-engines.ca
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: resistor plugs - Bob Robertson |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles <wliles@bayou.com>
You are correct that the manual states .020, however that gap results in
hard starting and a rougher idle. I was told by a Rotax factory rep at
an Avid flyin several years ago to use .016. It made a large difference
in starting and smoothness of running. Now as for Mr Robertson, yes he
is a Rotax dealer and runs an authorized service center. If he tells
you something about the engine believe it.
Jerry Liles
Avid MK IV
kitfox@gto.net wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
>
>Bob, are you a rotax Dealer? If so what credentials do you have to tell
>us what the plug gap should be on a 582 with ducati igntion ?
>I want to put this issue to rest .016 or .018 or .020.
>
>you just pointed out that CPS is incorrect,
>
>kirby
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Robertson"
><aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
>
>
>>That information in the CPS cataloge re: resistor plugs and caps is
>>ANCIENT....... The book needs to be updated badly.
>>Rotax has been shipping engines with resistor caps AND plugs since
>>1991......
>>If you have a CDI ignition you can use the resistor cap and the plug
>>together... If you have an ancient points engine you can run either
>>
>>
>one but
>
>
>>not both together.
>>I bet I get asked that question at least once a week because of that
>>outdated piece of information.
>>
>>I hope this helps
>>
>>Bob Robertson
>>Light Engine Services Ltd.
>>Rotax Service Center
>>St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
>>Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
>>Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
>>www.rtx-av-engines.ca
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Engine RPM was: Fuel Burn |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" <aerowood@mcsi.net>
Hi Andrew,
I used to cruise my 582 in IV-1200 at around 5200-5500, thinking I was
saving the engine. Eric Tucker, widely known Rotax expert advised in many
seminars at the old Kitfox Factory Fly-ins that the 582 should be cruised at
5800-6200, with wide open 6500-6800. His reason was the internal pressures
were less at those recommended rpms, thus the wear was less. So I then went
to 5800-6200 for cruise.
I also had inflight mixture control (the old Artic Sparrow one), and cruised
with EGTs 1200-1250F. I knew this was ok, because my gauges read 1100-1150
when it was rich (4-stroking).
Cheers,
bh
ex-N194KF, 582ed IV-1200, 800+ hrs
> Running the 582 at 5800 is actually preferred? Why is that? I heard
> something about that from a friend, but I still find it hard to
> believe...The wear on the engine is greater at that speed than at a lower
> RPM, so what benefits do you get from running so high that outweigh the
> extra wear and fuel burn?
>
> Also, I pulled my plugs - the very tips of the electrodes were a nice tan
> color, but the rest of the plugs were fouled - covered in carbon...I don't
> know too much about how to read them to see how my engine is running - any
> information would be appreciated!
>
> Thanks!
> Andrew
Message 38
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| Subject: | A Bargain For You? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: srud0fc02@sneakemail.com
Somebody Is Going To Get A Bargain!
Been wanting to build your own plane but short on dough? Here's your chance.
Selling Price $8,250.
Total purchase price invested $16,500.00
Skystar Vixen Aircraft Kit (Series V)
Aircraft Kit Serial # ADV-027
Tricycle gear, high wing, STOL performance, two (side-by-side) seating. Folding
wings allow towing and easy storage.
With purchased optional extras Quick Build Wings, Powder Coated Frame, 13 Gallon
Wing Tank Kit, Antenna Mount Plate and Tool Kit included at this price.
The Quick Build Wings feature (saves approximately 100 hours of construction time)
all done by Skystar factory personnel.
1) Wings built to the stage of Inserts being installed
2) Diagonal Braces installed
3) Ribs installed
4) Trailing Edge installed
5) Flaperon Hanger Doublers installed
6) Top False Ribs
The Powder Coated Frame is in the white stock color. Powder Coating eliminates
the difficult task of properly painting the fuselage of your Vixen. It offers
greatly increased durability, chemical resistance (a necessity in coastal regions
where salt can ravage) and more through and uniform application because the
powder coating is electronically bonded to the metal parts and then fused in
an oven.
Looking for the ultimate thrill and pride of accomplishment? Dream it, build it,
fly it!
Before making my purchase decision, I visited the Skystar facilities in Nampa,
Idaho as well as their major competitors. I flew a completed example of the Vixen
as well as a number of the competing aircraft. The superior responsiveness
and performance of the Vixen were noticeable when flown in a close time frame
comparison such as I experienced. Those experiences combined with the professionalism
and the thoroughness of the engineering, design and production of the
Vixen kit did it for me.
This kit was shipped to me in Jan 1994 and has been stored in a facility completely
sheltered from the elements. I am the original purchaser. The kit is "as
delivered" to me with all parts as originally shipped. No work whatsoever has
been done on this kit since it left the factory. It is exactly as the Skystar
factory in Nampa produced the kit.
The kit construction was never started due to a series of events that have culminated
in my now needing to sell. I have a deteriorating physical health condition
that makes it impossible for me to build the kit.
The complete kit is stored at my home here in the midwest USA which should make
for easy travel from just about anywhere in the country. The buyer must plan
on picking this kit up or having a shipper come in and ship it at buyer's expense.
No seller financing is available. I will accept a cashier's check, wire transfer
or good, ol' cash. First person here with the money gets the kit.
Looking for the perfect father /son project? Here's your opportunity.
Selling Price $8,250.
Looking forward to hearing from serious interested buyers. Please contact me directly
at the below email address or at the phone number.
Richard Young
Jamesport, Missouri
Phone: (660) 684-6226 (Central Time Zone) 1100 - 2200 best
Email: srud0fc02@sneakemail.com
Note:
My decision to sell this aircraft kit in no way reflects negatively on Skystar,
Kitfox, on any of their products or people. With my reluctant sale of this kit,
I do not desire to take any potential customer away from Skystar who may be
contemplating the purchase of a new aircraft. On the contrary I imagine that
the sale of my long-stored kit will lead to additional parts sales for the Skystar
product line as well as further word-of-mouth advertising from a satisfied
builder. It will be far better to have this aircraft-to-be up and flying and
producing enjoyment, than to be gathering dust in my garage.
I have always found the people at Skystar to be completely professional and quality
people in every way. My visits to the factory and the fly-ins have always
been wonderful and positive experiences. I have the greatest respect and admiration
for the Skystar organization and their product line. I will willingly
recommend them and their aircraft to anyone who will be looking for a kit to build.
That goes for now and after I have sold my kit. Skystar and Kitfox are the
best in the business and have my respect and admiration.
Message 39
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|
| Subject: | A Bargain For You? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
Richard,
That is a great price and you should have a buyer soon. I am sorry that you
cannot finish the kit. Hope your health improves real fast!
Don Pearsall
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
srud0fc02@sneakemail.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: A Bargain For You?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: srud0fc02@sneakemail.com
Somebody Is Going To Get A Bargain!
Been wanting to build your own plane but short on dough? Here's your chance.
Selling Price $8,250.
Total purchase price invested $16,500.00
Skystar Vixen Aircraft Kit (Series V)
Aircraft Kit Serial # ADV-027
Tricycle gear, high wing, STOL performance, two (side-by-side) seating.
Folding wings allow towing and easy storage.
With purchased optional extras Quick Build Wings, Powder Coated Frame, 13
Gallon Wing Tank Kit, Antenna Mount Plate and Tool Kit included at this
price.
The Quick Build Wings feature (saves approximately 100 hours of construction
time) all done by Skystar factory personnel.
1) Wings built to the stage of Inserts being installed
2) Diagonal Braces installed
3) Ribs installed
4) Trailing Edge installed
5) Flaperon Hanger Doublers installed
6) Top False Ribs
The Powder Coated Frame is in the white stock color. Powder Coating
eliminates the difficult task of properly painting the fuselage of your
Vixen. It offers greatly increased durability, chemical resistance (a
necessity in coastal regions where salt can ravage) and more through and
uniform application because the powder coating is electronically bonded to
the metal parts and then fused in an oven.
Looking for the ultimate thrill and pride of accomplishment? Dream it, build
it, fly it!
Before making my purchase decision, I visited the Skystar facilities in
Nampa, Idaho as well as their major competitors. I flew a completed example
of the Vixen as well as a number of the competing aircraft. The superior
responsiveness and performance of the Vixen were noticeable when flown in a
close time frame comparison such as I experienced. Those experiences
combined with the professionalism and the thoroughness of the engineering,
design and production of the Vixen kit did it for me.
This kit was shipped to me in Jan 1994 and has been stored in a facility
completely sheltered from the elements. I am the original purchaser. The kit
is "as delivered" to me with all parts as originally shipped. No work
whatsoever has been done on this kit since it left the factory. It is
exactly as the Skystar factory in Nampa produced the kit.
The kit construction was never started due to a series of events that have
culminated in my now needing to sell. I have a deteriorating physical health
condition that makes it impossible for me to build the kit.
The complete kit is stored at my home here in the midwest USA which should
make for easy travel from just about anywhere in the country. The buyer must
plan on picking this kit up or having a shipper come in and ship it at
buyer's expense.
No seller financing is available. I will accept a cashier's check, wire
transfer or good, ol' cash. First person here with the money gets the kit.
Looking for the perfect father /son project? Here's your opportunity.
Selling Price $8,250.
Looking forward to hearing from serious interested buyers. Please contact me
directly at the below email address or at the phone number.
Richard Young
Jamesport, Missouri
Phone: (660) 684-6226 (Central Time Zone) 1100 - 2200 best
Email: srud0fc02@sneakemail.com
Note:
My decision to sell this aircraft kit in no way reflects negatively on
Skystar, Kitfox, on any of their products or people. With my reluctant sale
of this kit, I do not desire to take any potential customer away from
Skystar who may be contemplating the purchase of a new aircraft. On the
contrary I imagine that the sale of my long-stored kit will lead to
additional parts sales for the Skystar product line as well as further
word-of-mouth advertising from a satisfied builder. It will be far better to
have this aircraft-to-be up and flying and producing enjoyment, than to be
gathering dust in my garage.
I have always found the people at Skystar to be completely professional and
quality people in every way. My visits to the factory and the fly-ins have
always been wonderful and positive experiences. I have the greatest respect
and admiration for the Skystar organization and their product line. I will
willingly recommend them and their aircraft to anyone who will be looking
for a kit to build. That goes for now and after I have sold my kit. Skystar
and Kitfox are the best in the business and have my respect and admiration.
Message 40
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|
| Subject: | Re: Engine RPM was: Fuel Burn |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andrew Matthaey" <spaghettiohead@hotmail.com>
Huh...That is good to know! Now I don't feel so bad about "pushing her," as
my buddies were saying...Now why would anybody put an inflight prop on then?
Keeping the RPMs up near 6K doesn't give you much room to back off the
throttle and increase the pitch...
Andrew
>From: "Bruce Harrington" <aerowood@mcsi.net>
>Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine RPM was: Fuel Burn
>Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 19:59:39 -0700
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" <aerowood@mcsi.net>
>
>Hi Andrew,
>
>I used to cruise my 582 in IV-1200 at around 5200-5500, thinking I was
>saving the engine. Eric Tucker, widely known Rotax expert advised in many
>seminars at the old Kitfox Factory Fly-ins that the 582 should be cruised
>at
>5800-6200, with wide open 6500-6800. His reason was the internal pressures
>were less at those recommended rpms, thus the wear was less. So I then
>went
>to 5800-6200 for cruise.
>
>I also had inflight mixture control (the old Artic Sparrow one), and
>cruised
>with EGTs 1200-1250F. I knew this was ok, because my gauges read 1100-1150
>when it was rich (4-stroking).
>
>Cheers,
>bh
>ex-N194KF, 582ed IV-1200, 800+ hrs
>
> > Running the 582 at 5800 is actually preferred? Why is that? I heard
> > something about that from a friend, but I still find it hard to
> > believe...The wear on the engine is greater at that speed than at a
>lower
> > RPM, so what benefits do you get from running so high that outweigh the
> > extra wear and fuel burn?
> >
> > Also, I pulled my plugs - the very tips of the electrodes were a nice
>tan
> > color, but the rest of the plugs were fouled - covered in carbon...I
>don't
> > know too much about how to read them to see how my engine is running -
>any
> > information would be appreciated!
> >
> > Thanks!
> > Andrew
>
>
http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/
Message 41
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|
| Subject: | Re: A Bargain For You? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeff Hubbard" <jhubbard65@comcast.net>
I am VERY interseted! Where do you live? I am in the Denver area and am in
the market for a KF. If I'm not mistaken, this model can be converted to a
taildragger as well, correct? i assume there is no engine with this kit?
----- Original Message -----
From: <srud0fc02@sneakemail.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: A Bargain For You?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: srud0fc02@sneakemail.com
>
> Somebody Is Going To Get A Bargain!
>
> Been wanting to build your own plane but short on dough? Here's your
> chance.
>
> Selling Price $8,250.
>
> Total purchase price invested $16,500.00
>
> Skystar Vixen Aircraft Kit (Series V)
> Aircraft Kit Serial # ADV-027
> Tricycle gear, high wing, STOL performance, two (side-by-side) seating.
> Folding wings allow towing and easy storage.
>
> With purchased optional extras Quick Build Wings, Powder Coated Frame, 13
> Gallon Wing Tank Kit, Antenna Mount Plate and Tool Kit included at this
> price.
> The Quick Build Wings feature (saves approximately 100 hours of
> construction time) all done by Skystar factory personnel.
> 1) Wings built to the stage of Inserts being installed
> 2) Diagonal Braces installed
> 3) Ribs installed
> 4) Trailing Edge installed
> 5) Flaperon Hanger Doublers installed
> 6) Top False Ribs
> The Powder Coated Frame is in the white stock color. Powder Coating
> eliminates the difficult task of properly painting the fuselage of your
> Vixen. It offers greatly increased durability, chemical resistance (a
> necessity in coastal regions where salt can ravage) and more through and
> uniform application because the powder coating is electronically bonded to
> the metal parts and then fused in an oven.
>
> Looking for the ultimate thrill and pride of accomplishment? Dream it,
> build it, fly it!
>
> Before making my purchase decision, I visited the Skystar facilities in
> Nampa, Idaho as well as their major competitors. I flew a completed
> example of the Vixen as well as a number of the competing aircraft. The
> superior responsiveness and performance of the Vixen were noticeable when
> flown in a close time frame comparison such as I experienced. Those
> experiences combined with the professionalism and the thoroughness of the
> engineering, design and production of the Vixen kit did it for me.
>
> This kit was shipped to me in Jan 1994 and has been stored in a facility
> completely sheltered from the elements. I am the original purchaser. The
> kit is "as delivered" to me with all parts as originally shipped. No work
> whatsoever has been done on this kit since it left the factory. It is
> exactly as the Skystar factory in Nampa produced the kit.
>
> The kit construction was never started due to a series of events that have
> culminated in my now needing to sell. I have a deteriorating physical
> health condition that makes it impossible for me to build the kit.
>
> The complete kit is stored at my home here in the midwest USA which should
> make for easy travel from just about anywhere in the country. The buyer
> must plan on picking this kit up or having a shipper come in and ship it
> at buyer's expense.
>
> No seller financing is available. I will accept a cashier's check, wire
> transfer or good, ol' cash. First person here with the money gets the kit.
>
> Looking for the perfect father /son project? Here's your opportunity.
>
> Selling Price $8,250.
>
> Looking forward to hearing from serious interested buyers. Please contact
> me directly at the below email address or at the phone number.
> Richard Young
>
> Jamesport, Missouri
>
> Phone: (660) 684-6226 (Central Time Zone) 1100 - 2200 best
> Email: srud0fc02@sneakemail.com
>
>
> Note:
> My decision to sell this aircraft kit in no way reflects negatively on
> Skystar, Kitfox, on any of their products or people. With my reluctant
> sale of this kit, I do not desire to take any potential customer away from
> Skystar who may be contemplating the purchase of a new aircraft. On the
> contrary I imagine that the sale of my long-stored kit will lead to
> additional parts sales for the Skystar product line as well as further
> word-of-mouth advertising from a satisfied builder. It will be far better
> to have this aircraft-to-be up and flying and producing enjoyment, than to
> be gathering dust in my garage.
>
> I have always found the people at Skystar to be completely professional
> and quality people in every way. My visits to the factory and the fly-ins
> have always been wonderful and positive experiences. I have the greatest
> respect and admiration for the Skystar organization and their product
> line. I will willingly recommend them and their aircraft to anyone who
> will be looking for a kit to build. That goes for now and after I have
> sold my kit. Skystar and Kitfox are the best in the business and have my
> respect and admiration.
>
>
>
Message 42
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| Subject: | In-flight prop fuel burn |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andrew Matthaey" <spaghettiohead@hotmail.com>
Alright - Dumb question alert!
When you use an in-flight prop, what decides your fuel burn on our 2-strokes
- the engine RPM or the throttle position? For example - if I were to fly
WOT and increase pitch to bring rpms down to 5800, would I be burning the
WOT value, or the 4.5 gph which is normal at 5800?
Thanks!
Andrew
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
Message 43
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| Subject: | In-flight prop fuel burn |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
> From: Andrew Matthaey [spaghettiohead@hotmail.com]
> if I were to fly
> WOT and increase pitch to bring rpms down to 5800, would I be burning the
> WOT value, or the 4.5 gph which is normal at 5800?
From one newbie to another, Andrew, this is what I think:
Assuming that your mixture setting is constant, the volume of air/fuel entering
your cylinders is directly proportional to the RPM. Hence the fuel consumption
is too.
... now, let's see what the pros have to say and learn from it! :-)
Cheers,
Michel
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