---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 06/21/05: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:19 AM - Re: Old Kitfox IV kit Restarted (Brett Walmsley) 2. 06:53 AM - Re: Show Winning Finish (flier) 3. 07:15 AM - Alaska trip 2005 (Ben Baltrusaitis) 4. 07:17 AM - Re: Show Winning Finish (Lowell Fitt) 5. 07:34 AM - Re: Alaska trip 2005 (Don Pearsall) 6. 07:51 AM - Re: Show Winning Finish (ron schick) 7. 11:54 AM - Where to get my Saratoga repainted, not quite kitfox, but still has wings.... (matt msg.05.23.05.04:21:08.26754 msg.05.23.05.04:21:08.26790 msg.05.23.05.06:30:00.19402 msg.05.23.05.07:05:35.29938 msg.05.23.05.08:42:28.21575 msg.05.23.05.08:42:28.21582 msg.05.23.05.08:57:10.6698 msg.05.23.05.10:00:04.32377 msg.05.23.05.11:00:42.31353 msg.05.23.05.11:21:06.24674 msg.05.23.05.11:23:26.28832 msg.05.23.05.12:11:57.25083 msg.05.23.05.12:28:45.16902 msg.05.23.05.12:30:46.1343 msg.05.23.05.15:43:11.15724 msg.05.23.05.15:51:21.28004 msg.05.23.05.16:50:42.4473 msg.05.23.05.20:16:01.11220 msg.05.23.05.21:41:19.17147 msg.05.23.05.21:56:05.11810 msg.05.23.05.22:11:26.1600 msg.05.23.05.22:11:29.2888 msg.05.23.05.22:16:47.12967 msg.06.21.05.05:19:43.24182 msg.06.21.05.06:53:29.4587 msg.06.21.05.07:15:13.16824 msg.06.21.05.07:17:39.23420 msg.06.21.05.07:34:54.20228 msg.06.21.05.07:51:48.12418 msg.06.21.05.11:54:40.19984 msg.06.21.05.15:20:12.21950 msg.06.21.05.15:39:22.19038 msg.06.21.05.15:40:51.22349 msg.06.21.05.15:41:42.25413 msg.06.21.05.15:43:17.29364 msg.06.21.05.16:07:26.32743 msg.06.21.05.16:12:29.11441 msg.06.21.05.16:13:37.14589 msg.06.21.05.16:23:34.29652 msg.06.21.05.16:42:21.23130 msg.06.21.05.20:48:21.21502 msg.06.21.05.21:32:49.17707 msg.06.21.05.22:08:01.32494 old_messages web_browse.day.0 web_browse.day.1 web_browse.day.2 web_browse.day.3 web_browse.day.4 web_browse.day.5 web_browse.day.6) 8. 03:20 PM - Re: Kitfox on floats (Michael Laundy) 9. 03:39 PM - Re: Show Winning Finish (Steve Cooper) 10. 03:40 PM - Re: Show Winning Finish (Steve Cooper) 11. 03:41 PM - Re: Show Winning Finish (Ron Liebmann) 12. 03:43 PM - Re: Show Winning Finish (Steve Cooper) 13. 04:07 PM - Re: Show Winning Finish (Rick) 14. 04:12 PM - Re: Show Winning Finish (Rick) 15. 04:13 PM - Re: Show Winning Finish (Rick) 16. 04:23 PM - Re: Show Winning Finish (Andrew Matthaey) 17. 04:42 PM - Re: Show Winning Finish (Don Smythe) 18. 08:48 PM - Engine flooding (Kirk Martenson) 19. 09:32 PM - Re: Engine flooding (ron schick) 20. 10:08 PM - SV: Show Winning Finish (Michel Verheughe) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:19:43 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Old Kitfox IV kit Restarted From: "Brett Walmsley" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" I agree. My kit was puchased from the original buyer. It is a "95 kit. The Rotax 912 is fine (after a couple of upgrades). Toss the poly-Tak and epoxy, but the poly-brush will be ok. > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson > > Colin- > I just finished painting my IV with Poly-Fiber's Poly-Tone that was > dated 1993...it worked perfectly. The 12-year old Poly-Spray was also > good....just like the day they made it. I would suggest tossing out any > Poly-Tak, as that stuff doesn't last too long when it's fresh. > > Lynn > > On Sunday, June 19, 2005, at 01:04 AM, Colin Durey wrote: > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Colin Durey" >> >> Hi folks, > > ________ >> There are a couple of cans of paint and glues in the assemblage of >> bits, and, although never opened in all that time, I am guessing that >> they are probably only fit for the tip??? >> Regards >> Colin Durey >> Sydney >> > ____________ >> >> Regards >> >> Colin Durey >> Pacific Technology Corporation Ltd >> +61-418-677073 (M) >> +61-2-945466162 (F) >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:53:29 AM PST US From: "flier" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Show Winning Finish --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" Hey Steve, Polyfiber is very specific about coating failure from the use of coatings that are incompatible with the shrinkage and flexibility of dacron. Sounds like the PPG coatings go on really nicely but are there many aircraft that have been flown for a number of years in varying weather that have used the finish? Has anyone done any long-term durability testing? I've seen a number of really glossy fabric finishes that probably looked good when they went on but after 4 or 5 years looked like crap due to spider web cracks and puckers and drumming at edges. Is there any reason to believe the PPG coatings will do any better? Thanks, Ted --- Original Message --- From: "Steve Cooper" Subject: Kitfox-List: Show Winning Finish >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" > >Hi guys...just a bit of Misc. data I thought I'd pass on and it might be >of interest to some of you. > >A couple of years ago I attended the Copperstate fly- in and was amazed >and awestruck by the purple award winning Kitfox I found on display.l I >couldn, for the life of me understand how anyone could produce a finish >as slick as glass by covering with Fabric. Well, I've recently >discovered one method that will produce this kind of finish. > >Start with Polyfiber and cover like you normally would. Apply tapes with >particular care, and make sure you leave no ears up. Finish normally >through the brushed coat of Polybrush. Use the untinted version. Now is >where we deviate from the normal covering job. Apply PPG high fill >primer. Spray a light tac coat initially, then after a few minutes apply >a good heavy coat but avoid runs. After 48 hours or so begin wet >blocksanding with 400 grit. Your done blocksanding when there is >completely NO shine left anywhere from the primer. Take it easy on tape >edges and stitching areas...do those last with "gray" 3-M Scotchpad WET. >Once it's sanded your ready to shoot your second coat of high fill >primer...then wet block sand again with 600 grit paper. Again, your done >when there is NO shine left from the primer. Clean it all with Wax and >grease remover and your ready to spray your PPG base coat. After the >base is dry your ready for the PPG clearcoat. > >I followed this procedure as it was applied to a Rans >S7S by Rocky Mountain Kitplanes. The finished results were absolutely >astonishing. This "every day" procedure used by this company regularly >produces aircraft that could all be award winners. It's really something >else ...I think I'm going to try it on my next project. > >Steve Cooper > > >_- ====================================================== ====== browse Subscriptions page, FAQ, List >_- ====================================================== ====== > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:15:13 AM PST US From: "Ben Baltrusaitis" Subject: Kitfox-List: Alaska trip 2005 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ben Baltrusaitis" I'm starving for more stories! Where are days 5-11? http://www.sportflight.com/alaska2005/progress.htm I need an adventure fix, my Kitfox is broken. Ben ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:17:39 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Show Winning Finish --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Steve, I would suggest that before venturing into this technique, you see if you can look at some old - meaning years old with hours of flight time - airplanes that have been painted using this technique. The Polyfiber finishes have plasticisers in them that allow for movement of the fabric during flight. Even then, in time they will crack. The rejuvinator for Polytone, the most forgiving finish they produce is evidence for that. I have heard of people dropping tools on the fabric and finding a crack pattern not unlike what you would find if the tool was dropped on safety glass. If your goal is to produce a show plane that will win a lot of trophies and really not fly too much and then plan on selling it fairly promptly for another project, which is often the case, go for it. The original Model IV speedster was painted in automotive paint as I recall and it had cracks in the finish early and the last time I saw it, the colors had faded badly. It has to be about12 years old by now. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Cooper" Subject: Kitfox-List: Show Winning Finish > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" > > Hi guys...just a bit of Misc. data I thought I'd pass on and it might be > of interest to some of you. > > A couple of years ago I attended the Copperstate fly-in and was amazed > and awestruck by the purple award winning Kitfox I found on display.l I > couldn, for the life of me understand how anyone could produce a finish > as slick as glass by covering with Fabric. Well, I've recently > discovered one method that will produce this kind of finish. > > Start with Polyfiber and cover like you normally would. Apply tapes with > particular care, and make sure you leave no ears up. Finish normally > through the brushed coat of Polybrush. Use the untinted version. Now is > where we deviate from the normal covering job. Apply PPG high fill > primer. Spray a light tac coat initially, then after a few minutes apply > a good heavy coat but avoid runs. After 48 hours or so begin wet > blocksanding with 400 grit. Your done blocksanding when there is > completely NO shine left anywhere from the primer. Take it easy on tape > edges and stitching areas...do those last with "gray" 3-M Scotchpad WET. > Once it's sanded your ready to shoot your second coat of high fill > primer...then wet block sand again with 600 grit paper. Again, your done > when there is NO shine left from the primer. Clean it all with Wax and > grease remover and your ready to spray your PPG base coat. After the > base is dry your ready for the PPG clearcoat. > > I followed this procedure as it was applied to a Rans > S7S by Rocky Mountain Kitplanes. The finished results were absolutely > astonishing. This "every day" procedure used by this company regularly > produces aircraft that could all be award winners. It's really something > else ...I think I'm going to try it on my next project. > > Steve Cooper > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:54 AM PST US From: "Don Pearsall" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Alaska trip 2005 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" Sorry, I have not had any contact with the group for several days. Jim Simmons is the one who is in charge of sending their photos and day by day activities, but he must not be able to find an internet connection. As soon as I get an update, I will post it to the website. Don Pearsall -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Baltrusaitis Subject: Kitfox-List: Alaska trip 2005 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ben Baltrusaitis" I'm starving for more stories! Where are days 5-11? http://www.sportflight.com/alaska2005/progress.htm I need an adventure fix, my Kitfox is broken. Ben ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:51:48 AM PST US From: "ron schick" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Show Winning Finish --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" >From: "Steve Cooper" >Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: Kitfox-List: Show Winning Finish >Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:21:20 -0600 > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" > >Hi guys...just a bit of Misc. data I thought I'd pass on and it might be >of interest to some of you. > >A couple of years ago I attended the Copperstate fly-in and was amazed >and awestruck by the purple award winning Kitfox I found on display.l I >couldn, for the life of me understand how anyone could produce a finish >as slick as glass > >Steve yes automotive paint is the most glossy but the downside is cracking >due to being brittle, and hard to repair. Polyfiber and ceconite can both >be washed to bare fabric with mek for repairs. Enamels and urethanes must >be sanded through then wash the dope off. Even then you end up with a hodge >podge of mix when refinishing at the transitions. Auto over poly, but no >poly over auto paint. Bad things happen otherwise. Ya it happened on a >repair. Ron NB Or > > Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:54:40 AM PST US From: "*" Subject: Kitfox-List: Where to get my Saratoga repainted, not quite kitfox, but still has wings.... --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "*" Hi all I know this question is off the topic of kitfoxes, but I respect the opinions of this group. I am looking for a reputible shop in the northeast to have my Piper Saratoga repainted. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. thanks greg (by the way I do have a KF IV-1200, last winters rebuild project) ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:20:12 PM PST US From: Michael Laundy Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox on floats --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Laundy Hi Joel, Thanks for the reply, I guessed that operating from rough grass may be a problem. Good luck with the build of your "KF5" when do you hope to be finished? Mike Joel Mapes wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Joel Mapes" Hello Mike, I'm building a Model 5 for my Aerocomp amphib floats. I decided on a 5 for the additional gross weight capability and interior room. A model 7 would be even better. Operating an amphib from a grass strip is problematic unless it is like a putting green. Most amphibs have minimal wheel to float clearance and will not work well with rough landing fields. I hope your search for an appropriate 'fox goes well. Joel Mapes --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:39:22 PM PST US From: "Steve Cooper" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Show Winning Finish --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" Great questions Ted. I discovered that this is the very technique that Randy at Rans is using...so most of the pre-built aircraft coming out of his factory are prepared this way. These aircraft are sold all over the world and the finish is holding up well for several years. You can also use Ceconite fabric if you like. I will see if I can find any data for you that is more concrete (aaa, I mean flexible! Hehe:) Steve -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flier Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Show Winning Finish --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" Hey Steve, Polyfiber is very specific about coating failure from the use of coatings that are incompatible with the shrinkage and flexibility of dacron. Sounds like the PPG coatings go on really nicely but are there many aircraft that have been flown for a number of years in varying weather that have used the finish? Has anyone done any long-term durability testing? I've seen a number of really glossy fabric finishes that probably looked good when they went on but after 4 or 5 years looked like crap due to spider web cracks and puckers and drumming at edges. Is there any reason to believe the PPG coatings will do any better? Thanks, Ted --- Original Message --- From: "Steve Cooper" Subject: Kitfox-List: Show Winning Finish >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" > >Hi guys...just a bit of Misc. data I thought I'd pass on and it might be >of interest to some of you. > >A couple of years ago I attended the Copperstate fly- in and was amazed >and awestruck by the purple award winning Kitfox I found on display.l I >couldn, for the life of me understand how anyone could produce a finish >as slick as glass by covering with Fabric. Well, I've recently >discovered one method that will produce this kind of finish. > >Start with Polyfiber and cover like you normally would. Apply tapes with >particular care, and make sure you leave no ears up. Finish normally >through the brushed coat of Polybrush. Use the untinted version. Now is >where we deviate from the normal covering job. Apply PPG high fill >primer. Spray a light tac coat initially, then after a few minutes apply >a good heavy coat but avoid runs. After 48 hours or so begin wet >blocksanding with 400 grit. Your done blocksanding when there is >completely NO shine left anywhere from the primer. Take it easy on tape >edges and stitching areas...do those last with "gray" 3-M Scotchpad WET. >Once it's sanded your ready to shoot your second coat of high fill >primer...then wet block sand again with 600 grit paper. Again, your done >when there is NO shine left from the primer. Clean it all with Wax and >grease remover and your ready to spray your PPG base coat. After the >base is dry your ready for the PPG clearcoat. > >I followed this procedure as it was applied to a Rans >S7S by Rocky Mountain Kitplanes. The finished results were absolutely >astonishing. This "every day" procedure used by this company regularly >produces aircraft that could all be award winners. It's really something >else ...I think I'm going to try it on my next project. > >Steve Cooper > > >_- ====================================================== ====== browse Subscriptions page, FAQ, List >_- ====================================================== ====== > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:40:51 PM PST US From: "Steve Cooper" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Show Winning Finish --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" Thanks for the advice Lowell, I'm sure you're probably right. I will look for an old one and report back to the group on what I find. steve -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Show Winning Finish --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Steve, I would suggest that before venturing into this technique, you see if you can look at some old - meaning years old with hours of flight time - airplanes that have been painted using this technique. The Polyfiber finishes have plasticisers in them that allow for movement of the fabric during flight. Even then, in time they will crack. The rejuvinator for Polytone, the most forgiving finish they produce is evidence for that. I have heard of people dropping tools on the fabric and finding a crack pattern not unlike what you would find if the tool was dropped on safety glass. If your goal is to produce a show plane that will win a lot of trophies and really not fly too much and then plan on selling it fairly promptly for another project, which is often the case, go for it. The original Model IV speedster was painted in automotive paint as I recall and it had cracks in the finish early and the last time I saw it, the colors had faded badly. It has to be about12 years old by now. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Cooper" Subject: Kitfox-List: Show Winning Finish > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" > > Hi guys...just a bit of Misc. data I thought I'd pass on and it might be > of interest to some of you. > > A couple of years ago I attended the Copperstate fly-in and was amazed > and awestruck by the purple award winning Kitfox I found on display.l I > couldn, for the life of me understand how anyone could produce a finish > as slick as glass by covering with Fabric. Well, I've recently > discovered one method that will produce this kind of finish. > > Start with Polyfiber and cover like you normally would. Apply tapes with > particular care, and make sure you leave no ears up. Finish normally > through the brushed coat of Polybrush. Use the untinted version. Now is > where we deviate from the normal covering job. Apply PPG high fill > primer. Spray a light tac coat initially, then after a few minutes apply > a good heavy coat but avoid runs. After 48 hours or so begin wet > blocksanding with 400 grit. Your done blocksanding when there is > completely NO shine left anywhere from the primer. Take it easy on tape > edges and stitching areas...do those last with "gray" 3-M Scotchpad WET. > Once it's sanded your ready to shoot your second coat of high fill > primer...then wet block sand again with 600 grit paper. Again, your done > when there is NO shine left from the primer. Clean it all with Wax and > grease remover and your ready to spray your PPG base coat. After the > base is dry your ready for the PPG clearcoat. > > I followed this procedure as it was applied to a Rans > S7S by Rocky Mountain Kitplanes. The finished results were absolutely > astonishing. This "every day" procedure used by this company regularly > produces aircraft that could all be award winners. It's really something > else ...I think I'm going to try it on my next project. > > Steve Cooper > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:41:42 PM PST US From: "Ron Liebmann" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Show Winning Finish --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron Liebmann" Hi Ted, I have Superflite paint on my Model 2. Their paint is PPG. After 15 years I found my first small split in the paint. I blame myself for sanding the primer too thin before the color coat. I am very pleased with the way the paint has held up. > Hey Steve, > > Polyfiber is very specific about coating failure from > the use of coatings that are incompatible with the > shrinkage and flexibility of dacron. Sounds like the > PPG coatings go on really nicely but are there many > aircraft that have been flown for a number of years > in varying weather that have used the finish? Has > anyone done any long-term durability testing? > > I've seen a number of really glossy fabric finishes > that probably looked good when they went on but after > 4 or 5 years looked like crap due to spider web > cracks and puckers and drumming at edges. Is there > any reason to believe the PPG coatings will do any > better? > > Thanks, > > Ted > > --- Original Message --- > From: "Steve Cooper" > To: > Subject: Kitfox-List: Show Winning Finish > >>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" > >> >>Hi guys...just a bit of Misc. data I thought I'd > pass on and it might be >>of interest to some of you. >> >>A couple of years ago I attended the Copperstate fly- > in and was amazed >>and awestruck by the purple award winning Kitfox I > found on display.l I >>couldn, for the life of me understand how anyone > could produce a finish >>as slick as glass by covering with Fabric. Well, > I've recently >>discovered one method that will produce this kind of > finish. >> >>Start with Polyfiber and cover like you normally > would. Apply tapes with >>particular care, and make sure you leave no ears up. > Finish normally >>through the brushed coat of Polybrush. Use the > untinted version. Now is >>where we deviate from the normal covering job. Apply > PPG high fill >>primer. Spray a light tac coat initially, then after > a few minutes apply >>a good heavy coat but avoid runs. After 48 hours or > so begin wet >>blocksanding with 400 grit. Your done blocksanding > when there is >>completely NO shine left anywhere from the primer. > Take it easy on tape >>edges and stitching areas...do those last > with "gray" 3-M Scotchpad WET. >>Once it's sanded your ready to shoot your second > coat of high fill >>primer...then wet block sand again with 600 grit > paper. Again, your done >>when there is NO shine left from the primer. Clean > it all with Wax and >>grease remover and your ready to spray your PPG base > coat. After the >>base is dry your ready for the PPG clearcoat. >> >>I followed this procedure as it was applied to a > Rans >>S7S by Rocky Mountain Kitplanes. The finished > results were absolutely >>astonishing. This "every day" procedure used by this > company regularly >>produces aircraft that could all be award winners. > It's really something >>else ...I think I'm going to try it on my next > project. >> >>Steve Cooper >> >> >>_- > ====================================================== > ====== > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > List >>_- > ====================================================== > ====== >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:43:17 PM PST US From: "Steve Cooper" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Show Winning Finish --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" Right Ron...already aware of that and what you say is the truth. They tell me that the PPG coating never actually dries????? Not sure what they mean by that, but I guess it's something about keeping it from becoming brittle. Steve -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ron schick Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Show Winning Finish --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" >From: "Steve Cooper" >Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: Kitfox-List: Show Winning Finish >Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:21:20 -0600 > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" > >Hi guys...just a bit of Misc. data I thought I'd pass on and it might be >of interest to some of you. > >A couple of years ago I attended the Copperstate fly-in and was amazed >and awestruck by the purple award winning Kitfox I found on display.l I >couldn, for the life of me understand how anyone could produce a finish >as slick as glass > >Steve yes automotive paint is the most glossy but the downside is cracking >due to being brittle, and hard to repair. Polyfiber and ceconite can both >be washed to bare fabric with mek for repairs. Enamels and urethanes must >be sanded through then wash the dope off. Even then you end up with a hodge >podge of mix when refinishing at the transitions. Auto over poly, but no >poly over auto paint. Bad things happen otherwise. Ya it happened on a >repair. Ron NB Or > > Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:07:26 PM PST US From: "Rick" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Show Winning Finish --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" Check out the ultralight radio show web site. There are a couple on interesting segment dealing with recent topics, 582 cruise RPMs and painting. Worth a look. Rick -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve Cooper Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Show Winning Finish --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" Great questions Ted. I discovered that this is the very technique that Randy at Rans is using...so most of the pre-built aircraft coming out of his factory are prepared this way. These aircraft are sold all over the world and the finish is holding up well for several years. You can also use Ceconite fabric if you like. I will see if I can find any data for you that is more concrete (aaa, I mean flexible! Hehe:) Steve -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flier Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Show Winning Finish --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" Hey Steve, Polyfiber is very specific about coating failure from the use of coatings that are incompatible with the shrinkage and flexibility of dacron. Sounds like the PPG coatings go on really nicely but are there many aircraft that have been flown for a number of years in varying weather that have used the finish? Has anyone done any long-term durability testing? I've seen a number of really glossy fabric finishes that probably looked good when they went on but after 4 or 5 years looked like crap due to spider web cracks and puckers and drumming at edges. Is there any reason to believe the PPG coatings will do any better? Thanks, Ted --- Original Message --- From: "Steve Cooper" Subject: Kitfox-List: Show Winning Finish >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" > >Hi guys...just a bit of Misc. data I thought I'd pass on and it might be >of interest to some of you. > >A couple of years ago I attended the Copperstate fly- in and was amazed >and awestruck by the purple award winning Kitfox I found on display.l I >couldn, for the life of me understand how anyone could produce a finish >as slick as glass by covering with Fabric. Well, I've recently >discovered one method that will produce this kind of finish. > >Start with Polyfiber and cover like you normally would. Apply tapes with >particular care, and make sure you leave no ears up. Finish normally >through the brushed coat of Polybrush. Use the untinted version. Now is >where we deviate from the normal covering job. Apply PPG high fill >primer. Spray a light tac coat initially, then after a few minutes apply >a good heavy coat but avoid runs. After 48 hours or so begin wet >blocksanding with 400 grit. Your done blocksanding when there is >completely NO shine left anywhere from the primer. Take it easy on tape >edges and stitching areas...do those last with "gray" 3-M Scotchpad WET. >Once it's sanded your ready to shoot your second coat of high fill >primer...then wet block sand again with 600 grit paper. Again, your done >when there is NO shine left from the primer. Clean it all with Wax and >grease remover and your ready to spray your PPG base coat. After the >base is dry your ready for the PPG clearcoat. > >I followed this procedure as it was applied to a Rans >S7S by Rocky Mountain Kitplanes. The finished results were absolutely >astonishing. This "every day" procedure used by this company regularly >produces aircraft that could all be award winners. It's really something >else ...I think I'm going to try it on my next project. > >Steve Cooper > > >_- ====================================================== ====== browse Subscriptions page, FAQ, List >_- ====================================================== ====== > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:12:29 PM PST US From: "Rick" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Show Winning Finish --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" Correction , ultraFlight radio. Rick ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:13:37 PM PST US From: "Rick" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Show Winning Finish --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" www.ultraflightradio.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rick Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Show Winning Finish --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" Check out the ultralight radio show web site. There are a couple on interesting segment dealing with recent topics, 582 cruise RPMs and painting. Worth a look. Rick -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve Cooper Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Show Winning Finish --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" Great questions Ted. I discovered that this is the very technique that Randy at Rans is using...so most of the pre-built aircraft coming out of his factory are prepared this way. These aircraft are sold all over the world and the finish is holding up well for several years. You can also use Ceconite fabric if you like. I will see if I can find any data for you that is more concrete (aaa, I mean flexible! Hehe:) Steve -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flier Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Show Winning Finish --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" Hey Steve, Polyfiber is very specific about coating failure from the use of coatings that are incompatible with the shrinkage and flexibility of dacron. Sounds like the PPG coatings go on really nicely but are there many aircraft that have been flown for a number of years in varying weather that have used the finish? Has anyone done any long-term durability testing? I've seen a number of really glossy fabric finishes that probably looked good when they went on but after 4 or 5 years looked like crap due to spider web cracks and puckers and drumming at edges. Is there any reason to believe the PPG coatings will do any better? Thanks, Ted --- Original Message --- From: "Steve Cooper" Subject: Kitfox-List: Show Winning Finish >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" > >Hi guys...just a bit of Misc. data I thought I'd pass on and it might be >of interest to some of you. > >A couple of years ago I attended the Copperstate fly- in and was amazed >and awestruck by the purple award winning Kitfox I found on display.l I >couldn, for the life of me understand how anyone could produce a finish >as slick as glass by covering with Fabric. Well, I've recently >discovered one method that will produce this kind of finish. > >Start with Polyfiber and cover like you normally would. Apply tapes with >particular care, and make sure you leave no ears up. Finish normally >through the brushed coat of Polybrush. Use the untinted version. Now is >where we deviate from the normal covering job. Apply PPG high fill >primer. Spray a light tac coat initially, then after a few minutes apply >a good heavy coat but avoid runs. After 48 hours or so begin wet >blocksanding with 400 grit. Your done blocksanding when there is >completely NO shine left anywhere from the primer. Take it easy on tape >edges and stitching areas...do those last with "gray" 3-M Scotchpad WET. >Once it's sanded your ready to shoot your second coat of high fill >primer...then wet block sand again with 600 grit paper. Again, your done >when there is NO shine left from the primer. Clean it all with Wax and >grease remover and your ready to spray your PPG base coat. After the >base is dry your ready for the PPG clearcoat. > >I followed this procedure as it was applied to a Rans >S7S by Rocky Mountain Kitplanes. The finished results were absolutely >astonishing. This "every day" procedure used by this company regularly >produces aircraft that could all be award winners. It's really something >else ...I think I'm going to try it on my next project. > >Steve Cooper > > >_- ====================================================== ====== browse Subscriptions page, FAQ, List >_- ====================================================== ====== > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:23:34 PM PST US From: "Andrew Matthaey" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Show Winning Finish --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andrew Matthaey" T-minus 12 (hrs) and counting - This time tomorrow morning I'll be wheel-up over NH on my way to Indiana! I'm finalizing my flight plans now...Today I went to the airport and took another 1/4 inch out of the pitch, as was suggested. I also added a rudder trim-tab. My leg would go stiff from holding in left rudder for 16 hrs of cruise! My sleeping bag is packed in back, I've got an extra 5 gallons of fuel in the passenger seat, and my tent is behind me on the turtledeck. If it's nice and not too buggy though, I'll be sleeping under the wings :) Thanks again to everybody helping me out with my pitch problems! Andrew ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:42:21 PM PST US From: "Don Smythe" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Show Winning Finish --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" Good luck on your trip and don't forget to "TEST" and readjust before you leave the pattern. Don Smythe Classic IV W/ 582 ----- Original Message ----- > T-minus 12 (hrs) and counting - This time tomorrow morning I'll be wheel-up > over NH on my way to Indiana! I'm finalizing my flight plans now...Today I > went to the airport and took another 1/4 inch out of the pitch, as was > suggested. I also added a rudder trim-tab. My leg would go stiff from > holding in left rudder for 16 hrs of cruise! > > My sleeping bag is packed in back, I've got an extra 5 gallons of fuel in > the passenger seat, and my tent is behind me on the turtledeck. If it's > nice > and not too buggy though, I'll be sleeping under the wings :) > > Thanks again to everybody helping me out with my pitch problems! > > Andrew > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:21 PM PST US From: "Kirk Martenson" Subject: Kitfox-List: Engine flooding --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kirk Martenson" Hello: I have written about my problem with my Rotax 912 several times and I have gotten several solutions that I have tried( thanks a lot to all those that had suggestions). I still have the same problem with the carbs flooding out. When the engine is up to operating temperature, and I close the throttle for final approach, the engine floods out. Also, attempting to restart the engine, there is gas coming from the overflow tubes on the carb when the engine sits for 5 minutes after running. Here is what I have done so far: 1. Rebuilt the carbs with new O rings and gaskets. 2. Installed new bowl floats on one side (because I thought they looked waterlogged(gaslogged?)). 3. Installed the new heavier spring needle valves. 4.Installed new float forks in the bowls. 5. Adjusted the idle jet. 6.Checked the fuel pressure with a gauge( because it seemed that there was too much pressure in the gas line) it was fine at about 4.9psi. 7. Cleaned out the breather hole on the bottom side of the throttle body where the air cleaner attaches. I have spoke to Bing carbs, Frank Miller at Skystar, Leading Edge AirFoils, and the guys down at Lockwood. I have tried just about everything except: 1. Installing new rubber engine mounts. That is next. 2. New rubber carb mounts. 3. New needle seats. Anyone else have any ideas? Thanks, Kirk Martenson Grounded Classic IV ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:32:50 PM PST US From: "ron schick" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Engine flooding --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" Gas tank vent? Multiple fuel pumps or diaphram leak? Ron NB Or >From: "Kirk Martenson" >Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: Kitfox-List: Engine flooding >Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 22:46:46 -0500 > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kirk Martenson" > >Anyone else have any ideas? > >Thanks, > >Kirk Martenson >Grounded Classic IV > > Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:08:01 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: Show Winning Finish --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > From: Andrew Matthaey [spaghettiohead@hotmail.com] > T-minus 12 (hrs) and counting - God speed and fair winds, Andrew! I am, myself, waiting for the weather on my last leg home to my trip to Belgium. I flew six different countries (an easy task in Europe! :-) and had a beautiful experience, thanks to the Kitfox, Jabiru and PocketFMS software. More about it later. Right now, I am waiting for better weather in south Sweden and checking the internet on the club's computer. Cheers, Michel do not archive