Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:54 AM - 912 Plugs (Rex & Jan Shaw)
2. 12:54 AM - Re: Michel in Sweden (Michel Verheughe)
3. 04:57 AM - Maritime story off topic (Ben Baltrusaitis)
4. 06:59 AM - Re: New email address (Lowell Fitt)
5. 07:20 AM - Re: Maritime story off topic (Jeremy Casey)
6. 07:55 AM - Re: 912 Plugs (Lowell Fitt)
7. 06:41 PM - Re: Engine flooding (Roger Standley)
8. 08:12 PM - Re: Engine flooding (Kirk Martenson)
9. 08:56 PM - Rotax 912 or 912S Wanted (Steve Cooper)
10. 09:17 PM - Re: Engine flooding (Harry Tucker)
11. 09:39 PM - Re: Engine flooding (Steve Cooper)
Message 1
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
I am currently using NGK DCPR7E plugs in my 912. I have seen talk to drop
the resister type plugs for better performance. So what's the part number of
plugs people on this list are having the best luck with?
Hi ! Paul,
I run a 582 and have changed to BR8EIX plugs instead of
B8ES. This is different to your 912 I know but let me explain a bit as it
will guide you. First let me say the improvement is quite noticeable and a
friend has had the same experience.
OK "B" is for 14mm thread dia "R" resistor "8" heat range "E" 10mm thread
reach "I" .6mm iridium centre electrode
"X" booster gap In the original plugs "S" standard 2.6mm centre electrode.
So this means I got a resistor plug. [ non resistor type not available in
this configeration ] I also got an Iridium plug and a booster gap. I need
the resistor but it is better in the plug than the cap as it gets changed
when the plugs are changed. Performance wise you would think it is better to
not have a resistor but that may not be the case especially with CDI
ignition. However with a booster gap I'd say if you don't need the resistor
for interference rejection then you are probably better off without the
resistor. Note however I would hesitate to recommend a booster gap plug
point blank for non CDI.
Re resistors as recently discussed I recommend NOT running both resistor
plugs and resistor caps but some disagree so you might need to make your own
decision on this. I did explain my reasons on list only a few days ago.
Now you have DCPR7E plugs so the "D" is for 12mm dia "C" 5/8" hex size "P"
projected insulator type "R" resistor "7" is your heat range "E" 3/4" reach
Therefore if you want to get non resistor plugs you need to see if you can
get DCP7E ie:- just drop the "R"
If you want to get iridium plugs you need to add "I" on the end ie:-
DCPR7EI or DCP7EI. You may or may not be able to get such a plug. You can
try or check on the nett. If you add an "X" on the end you get a booster gap
plug.
A booster gap will allow the voltage to build up higher before it fires
after which the voltage stops building up. This is most likely a good idea
with CDI.
So if I were you I would be looking for DCPR7EIX. This is a resistor plug
and I would use non resistor caps. Just leave the "R" out if you want to try
no resistors. If you do and you then need a resistor you might have resistor
caps on hand or can buy them. Watch the cost though as some ask up to
$30/cap. This is ridiculous. You can find NGK caps for $2 to3.
Rex
rexjan@bigpond.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Michel in Sweden |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Kerry Skyring wrote:
> I am really looking forward to hearing about your trip and how you used the PocketFMS.
Thanks Kerry. I flew 24 hours and 35 minutes in nine legs. A long PIREP with
photos will come on the internet. But now, I leave the Kitfox to go sailing to
meet our son and his wife, in Sweden, for Midsummer Night celebration ... I am
still on holidays! :-)
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Maritime story off topic |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ben Baltrusaitis" <ben@gmpexpress.net>
This story is mostly for Michel , but I thought everyone would like a laugh. I
promise I won't make a habit of this and hope it is the first time you've heard
it.
Ben
----- Original Message -----
This is the alleged transcript of an actual radio conversation between a US naval
ship and Canadian maritime contact off the coast of Newfoundland in October
1995.
Americans: Please divert your course 15 degrees North to avoid a collision.
Canadians: Recommend you divert YOUR course 15 degrees South to avoid collision.
Americans: This is the captain of a US navy ship; I say again divert your course.
Canadians: No. I say again, you divert YOUR course.
Americans: THIS IS THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER USS LINCOLN, THE SECOND LARGEST SHIP IN
THE UNITED STATES' ATLANTIC FLEET WE ARE ACCOMPANIED BY THREE DESTROYERS, THREE
CRUISERS AND NUMEROUS SUPPORT VESSELS. I DEMAND THAT YOU CHANGE YOUR COURSE
15 DEGREES NORTH, THAT'S ONE FIVE DEGREES NORTH, OR COUNTER-MEASURES WILL BE
UNDERTAKEN TO ENSURE THE SAFETY OF THIS SHIP.
Canadians: We are a lighthouse; your call.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: New email address |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Bruce, thanks.
Lowell
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Harrington" <aerowood@mcsi.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: New email address
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" <aerowood@mcsi.net>
>
> Hi Y'all,
> New email adress is sonex321@msn.com
> Got rid of the 2nd phone and 2 ISP accounts, and for less money,
> got QWEST DSL where we can have multiple PCs, 11 accounts,
> talk on phone while on Internet, and faster downloads.
> Cheers,
> Bruce Harrington
> Sonex N321SX
> ex- aerowood@mcsi.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Maritime story off topic |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeremy Casey" <n79rt@kilocharlie.us>
Have heard several versions of the "story"...the take a slap at the U.S.
version is new to me though... ;-(
Jeremy Casey
New Kitfox Series 5 kit owner...
-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Baltrusaitis [mailto:ben@gmpexpress.net]
Subject: Kitfox-List: Maritime story off topic
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ben Baltrusaitis"
<ben@gmpexpress.net>
This story is mostly for Michel , but I thought everyone would like a
laugh. I promise I won't make a habit of this and hope it is the first
time you've heard it.
Ben
----- Original Message -----
This is the alleged transcript of an actual radio conversation between a
US naval ship and Canadian maritime contact off the coast of
Newfoundland in October 1995.
Americans: Please divert your course 15 degrees North to avoid a
collision.
Canadians: Recommend you divert YOUR course 15 degrees South to avoid
collision.
Americans: This is the captain of a US navy ship; I say again divert
your course.
Canadians: No. I say again, you divert YOUR course.
Americans: THIS IS THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER USS LINCOLN, THE SECOND LARGEST
SHIP IN THE UNITED STATES' ATLANTIC FLEET WE ARE ACCOMPANIED BY THREE
DESTROYERS, THREE CRUISERS AND NUMEROUS SUPPORT VESSELS. I DEMAND THAT
YOU CHANGE YOUR COURSE 15 DEGREES NORTH, THAT'S ONE FIVE DEGREES NORTH,
OR COUNTER-MEASURES WILL BE UNDERTAKEN TO ENSURE THE SAFETY OF THIS
SHIP.
Canadians: We are a lighthouse; your call.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 6
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Rex,
I did a brief search of the irridium plugs and one note I found suggested
that they come pre gapped and that attempting to regap them would break the
electrode. Can you comment on this?
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: 912 Plugs
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
>
> I am currently using NGK DCPR7E plugs in my 912. I have seen talk to
> drop
> the resister type plugs for better performance. So what's the part number
> of
> plugs people on this list are having the best luck with?
>
> Hi ! Paul,
> I run a 582 and have changed to BR8EIX plugs instead of
> B8ES. This is different to your 912 I know but let me explain a bit as it
> will guide you. First let me say the improvement is quite noticeable and a
> friend has had the same experience.
> OK "B" is for 14mm thread dia "R" resistor "8" heat range "E" 10mm
> thread
> reach "I" .6mm iridium centre electrode
> "X" booster gap In the original plugs "S" standard 2.6mm centre
> electrode.
> So this means I got a resistor plug. [ non resistor type not available in
> this configeration ] I also got an Iridium plug and a booster gap. I need
> the resistor but it is better in the plug than the cap as it gets changed
> when the plugs are changed. Performance wise you would think it is better
> to
> not have a resistor but that may not be the case especially with CDI
> ignition. However with a booster gap I'd say if you don't need the
> resistor
> for interference rejection then you are probably better off without the
> resistor. Note however I would hesitate to recommend a booster gap plug
> point blank for non CDI.
> Re resistors as recently discussed I recommend NOT running both resistor
> plugs and resistor caps but some disagree so you might need to make your
> own
> decision on this. I did explain my reasons on list only a few days ago.
> Now you have DCPR7E plugs so the "D" is for 12mm dia "C" 5/8" hex size "P"
> projected insulator type "R" resistor "7" is your heat range "E" 3/4"
> reach
> Therefore if you want to get non resistor plugs you need to see if you can
> get DCP7E ie:- just drop the "R"
> If you want to get iridium plugs you need to add "I" on the end ie:-
> DCPR7EI or DCP7EI. You may or may not be able to get such a plug. You can
> try or check on the nett. If you add an "X" on the end you get a booster
> gap
> plug.
> A booster gap will allow the voltage to build up higher before it fires
> after which the voltage stops building up. This is most likely a good idea
> with CDI.
> So if I were you I would be looking for DCPR7EIX. This is a resistor plug
> and I would use non resistor caps. Just leave the "R" out if you want to
> try
> no resistors. If you do and you then need a resistor you might have
> resistor
> caps on hand or can buy them. Watch the cost though as some ask up to
> $30/cap. This is ridiculous. You can find NGK caps for $2 to3.
>
> Rex
>
> rexjan@bigpond.com
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Engine flooding |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Roger Standley" <taildragon@msn.com>
snip-----
"This mind you after 650 hours with no carburetor issues and the
rebuild was per recommendation, rather than problem directed."
Lowell,
What prompted you to do the rebuild? If you had it to do over again, knowing what
you know now, what would you do?
Roger
----- Original Message -----
From: Lowell Fitt<mailto:lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 7:19 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine flooding
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net<mailto:lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>>
Mark,
This is interesting. I do remember your first post. Since then, I rebuilt
my carbs. The new needles were a failure. I experienced exactly what you
are experiencing, but mostly on the left (Pilot) side. Like you, I tried
everything. This mind you after 650 hours with no carburetor issues and the
rebuild was per recommendation, rather than problem directed.
Bing told me there were three needles. the Black one which is what you
have - designed for the 912S. The Silver ones that I had and have now, and
another one, bronze, I think and I am not aware of its purpose specifically.
On inspection, there was nothing visibly wrong with the old needles - per
the inspection guidelines in the repair manual - so the old one went back
on the left carb and I was pretty much OK until I returned from the Idaho
trip last week and had a little rough running as I taxied to the hangar and
found fuel on the floor the next morining - about a tablespoon full. I
guess I will find the time to put the old needle back in the right carb.
As for what to look for, I haven't a clue, but the fact that my probalem
started with the installation of new needles, suggests that the needles
might just play a part in the problem. Maybe as some vendors claim, "there
was a bad batch".
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirk Martenson" <kirk@mninter.net<mailto:kirk@mninter.net>>
To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Engine flooding
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kirk Martenson" <kirk@mninter.net<mailto:kirk@mninter.net>>
>
> Hello:
>
> I have written about my problem with my Rotax 912 several times and I have
> gotten several solutions that I have tried( thanks a lot to all those that
> had suggestions). I still have the same problem with the carbs flooding
> out.
>
> When the engine is up to operating temperature, and I close the throttle
> for final approach, the engine floods out. Also, attempting to restart
> the engine, there is gas coming from the overflow tubes on the carb when
> the engine sits for 5 minutes after running.
>
> Here is what I have done so far:
>
> 1. Rebuilt the carbs with new O rings and gaskets.
>
> 2. Installed new bowl floats on one side (because I thought they looked
> waterlogged(gaslogged?)).
>
> 3. Installed the new heavier spring needle valves.
>
> 4.Installed new float forks in the bowls.
>
> 5. Adjusted the idle jet.
>
> 6.Checked the fuel pressure with a gauge( because it seemed that there was
> too much pressure in the gas line) it was fine at about 4.9psi.
>
> 7. Cleaned out the breather hole on the bottom side of the throttle body
> where the air cleaner attaches.
>
> I have spoke to Bing carbs, Frank Miller at Skystar, Leading Edge
> AirFoils, and the guys down at Lockwood. I have tried just about
> everything except:
>
> 1. Installing new rubber engine mounts. That is next.
> 2. New rubber carb mounts.
> 3. New needle seats.
>
> Anyone else have any ideas?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kirk Martenson
> Grounded Classic IV
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Engine flooding |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kirk Martenson" <kirk@mninter.net>
Jim:
Thanks for the info. Did you have this problem as well?
Kirk
----- Original Message -----
From: "jimshumaker" <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine flooding
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker"
> <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Kirk
>
> I adjusted the float lever to close the spring needle valve at a lower
> float
> bowl level and installed an automotive pressure regulator after the fuel
> pump. I run the fuel pump at 2 1/2 lbs.
>
> Jim Shumaker
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Rotax 912 or 912S Wanted |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
Hi guys...I'm looking for a new Rotax 912 or 912S If you have one for
sale or know of any leads please let me know.
Thanks,
Steve
(801) 380-0097
Message 10
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harry Tucker" <harry@jts.co.uk>
Hi
We had the same problem on a brand new 912S Rotax and tried everthing to no avail.
We solved the problem partly by:
fitting the new new rubber carb mounts - which I believe is recommended by Rotax
now anyway
and partly by
fitting a slipper clutch
Hope this helps
Harry Tucker
South Africa
________________________________
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Roger Standley
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine flooding
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Roger Standley" <taildragon@msn.com>
snip-----
"This mind you after 650 hours with no carburetor issues and the
rebuild was per recommendation, rather than problem directed."
Lowell,
What prompted you to do the rebuild? If you had it to do over again, knowing what
you know now, what would you do?
Roger
----- Original Message -----
From: Lowell Fitt<mailto:lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 7:19 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine flooding
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net<mailto:lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>>
Mark,
This is interesting. I do remember your first post. Since then, I rebuilt
my carbs. The new needles were a failure. I experienced exactly what you
are experiencing, but mostly on the left (Pilot) side. Like you, I tried
everything. This mind you after 650 hours with no carburetor issues and the
rebuild was per recommendation, rather than problem directed.
Bing told me there were three needles. the Black one which is what you
have - designed for the 912S. The Silver ones that I had and have now, and
another one, bronze, I think and I am not aware of its purpose specifically.
On inspection, there was nothing visibly wrong with the old needles - per
the inspection guidelines in the repair manual - so the old one went back
on the left carb and I was pretty much OK until I returned from the Idaho
trip last week and had a little rough running as I taxied to the hangar and
found fuel on the floor the next morining - about a tablespoon full. I
guess I will find the time to put the old needle back in the right carb.
As for what to look for, I haven't a clue, but the fact that my probalem
started with the installation of new needles, suggests that the needles
might just play a part in the problem. Maybe as some vendors claim, "there
was a bad batch".
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirk Martenson" <kirk@mninter.net<mailto:kirk@mninter.net>>
To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Engine flooding
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kirk Martenson" <kirk@mninter.net<mailto:kirk@mninter.net>>
>
> Hello:
>
> I have written about my problem with my Rotax 912 several times and I have
> gotten several solutions that I have tried( thanks a lot to all those that
> had suggestions). I still have the same problem with the carbs flooding
> out.
>
> When the engine is up to operating temperature, and I close the throttle
> for final approach, the engine floods out. Also, attempting to restart
> the engine, there is gas coming from the overflow tubes on the carb when
> the engine sits for 5 minutes after running.
>
> Here is what I have done so far:
>
> 1. Rebuilt the carbs with new O rings and gaskets.
>
> 2. Installed new bowl floats on one side (because I thought they looked
> waterlogged(gaslogged?)).
>
> 3. Installed the new heavier spring needle valves.
>
> 4.Installed new float forks in the bowls.
>
> 5. Adjusted the idle jet.
>
> 6.Checked the fuel pressure with a gauge( because it seemed that there was
> too much pressure in the gas line) it was fine at about 4.9psi.
>
> 7. Cleaned out the breather hole on the bottom side of the throttle body
> where the air cleaner attaches.
>
> I have spoke to Bing carbs, Frank Miller at Skystar, Leading Edge
> AirFoils, and the guys down at Lockwood. I have tried just about
> everything except:
>
> 1. Installing new rubber engine mounts. That is next.
> 2. New rubber carb mounts.
> 3. New needle seats.
>
> Anyone else have any ideas?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kirk Martenson
> Grounded Classic IV
>
>
>
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Message 11
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
I though the 912S came with the Slipper clutch as standard equipment?
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Harry
Tucker
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Engine flooding
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harry Tucker" <harry@jts.co.uk>
Hi
We had the same problem on a brand new 912S Rotax and tried everthing to
no avail.
We solved the problem partly by:
fitting the new new rubber carb mounts - which I believe is recommended
by Rotax now anyway
and partly by
fitting a slipper clutch
Hope this helps
Harry Tucker
South Africa
________________________________
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Roger Standley
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine flooding
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Roger Standley" <taildragon@msn.com>
snip-----
"This mind you after 650 hours with no carburetor issues and the
rebuild was per recommendation, rather than problem directed."
Lowell,
What prompted you to do the rebuild? If you had it to do over again,
knowing what you know now, what would you do?
Roger
----- Original Message -----
From: Lowell Fitt<mailto:lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 7:19 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine flooding
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt"
<lcfitt@sbcglobal.net<mailto:lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>>
Mark,
This is interesting. I do remember your first post. Since then, I
rebuilt
my carbs. The new needles were a failure. I experienced exactly what
you
are experiencing, but mostly on the left (Pilot) side. Like you, I
tried
everything. This mind you after 650 hours with no carburetor issues
and the
rebuild was per recommendation, rather than problem directed.
Bing told me there were three needles. the Black one which is what
you
have - designed for the 912S. The Silver ones that I had and have
now, and
another one, bronze, I think and I am not aware of its purpose
specifically.
On inspection, there was nothing visibly wrong with the old needles -
per
the inspection guidelines in the repair manual - so the old one went
back
on the left carb and I was pretty much OK until I returned from the
Idaho
trip last week and had a little rough running as I taxied to the
hangar and
found fuel on the floor the next morining - about a tablespoon full.
I
guess I will find the time to put the old needle back in the right
carb.
As for what to look for, I haven't a clue, but the fact that my
probalem
started with the installation of new needles, suggests that the
needles
might just play a part in the problem. Maybe as some vendors claim,
"there
was a bad batch".
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirk Martenson" <kirk@mninter.net<mailto:kirk@mninter.net>>
To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Engine flooding
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kirk Martenson"
<kirk@mninter.net<mailto:kirk@mninter.net>>
>
> Hello:
>
> I have written about my problem with my Rotax 912 several times and
I have
> gotten several solutions that I have tried( thanks a lot to all
those that
> had suggestions). I still have the same problem with the carbs
flooding
> out.
>
> When the engine is up to operating temperature, and I close the
throttle
> for final approach, the engine floods out. Also, attempting to
restart
> the engine, there is gas coming from the overflow tubes on the carb
when
> the engine sits for 5 minutes after running.
>
> Here is what I have done so far:
>
> 1. Rebuilt the carbs with new O rings and gaskets.
>
> 2. Installed new bowl floats on one side (because I thought they
looked
> waterlogged(gaslogged?)).
>
> 3. Installed the new heavier spring needle valves.
>
> 4.Installed new float forks in the bowls.
>
> 5. Adjusted the idle jet.
>
> 6.Checked the fuel pressure with a gauge( because it seemed that
there was
> too much pressure in the gas line) it was fine at about 4.9psi.
>
> 7. Cleaned out the breather hole on the bottom side of the throttle
body
> where the air cleaner attaches.
>
> I have spoke to Bing carbs, Frank Miller at Skystar, Leading Edge
> AirFoils, and the guys down at Lockwood. I have tried just about
> everything except:
>
> 1. Installing new rubber engine mounts. That is next.
> 2. New rubber carb mounts.
> 3. New needle seats.
>
> Anyone else have any ideas?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kirk Martenson
> Grounded Classic IV
>
>
>
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