Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:11 AM - Automatic Trim (Guy Buchanan)
2. 08:27 AM - Re: Automatic Trim (Don Pearsall)
3. 09:06 AM - Re: Alaska trip 2005 (SOURDOSTAN@aol.com)
4. 11:08 AM - Re: Automatic Trim (Jeremy Casey)
5. 11:15 AM - Re: Automatic Trim (jdmcbean)
6. 02:49 PM - Re: Automatic Trim (Mdkitfox@AOL.COM)
7. 07:07 PM - Re: New to Kitfox... (John King)
Message 1
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
All,
I had a thought as I tried to figure out how to install a manual
pitch trim. What if I connected the trim to the flap system, so the flaps
and pitch trim were permanently connected. Has anyone done this? Are there
any obvious problems I'm missing?
Thanks,
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Message 2
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
Hi Guy, I am trying to understand the reason why you would want the pitch
trim and the flaps connected. Is it to offset the pitch you get when
applying flaps? I don't think anyone (that I know of) has done this. I
can't think of any store bought planes that do this either. It's a novel
idea, but sounds like a lot of work, because you would want them to be
independent of each other too. In other words, at times you would want the
flaps and trim to be adjustable without affecting the other.
Tell us more about your thinking.
Don Pearsall
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Guy Buchanan
Subject: Kitfox-List: Automatic Trim
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
All,
I had a thought as I tried to figure out how to install a manual
pitch trim. What if I connected the trim to the flap system, so the flaps
and pitch trim were permanently connected. Has anyone done this? Are there
any obvious problems I'm missing?
Thanks,
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Alaska trip 2005 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: SOURDOSTAN@aol.com
We landed at Merrill Field in Anchorage yesterday and stayed overnight here
at Ace Hangars right on the field. We toured the town last night, visiting
Lake Hood Seaplane Base and some of the places I used to go to when I lived here
in the '70s, including my two homes. On to Soldotna today to stay with some
friends of Clint's, then start the trip home The trip is going super well,
including Nome, Prudhoe Bay and stops with our homestead and bush pilots friends.
We missed Scott McClintock in Nome, though. Engines are running well.
Weather is good, we're all eating like pigs, and you all oughta be along with us!!!
Our best wishes,
Stan, Robert, Jim and Clint
Message 4
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeremy Casey" <n79rt@kilocharlie.us>
I seem to remember reading that the Van's RV-10 has a system like that.
It involves two separate trim tabs...one on each elevator. One was
linked by a cable to the flap mechanism and the other was cockpit
controllable. Basically the stick back pressure caused by deploying the
flaps was nulled out by the automatic trim tab and changes in trim
required by changes in C.G. location were controlled by the manual
system.
In my opinion...simpler is better and the mechanism for an automatic
system will be a lot of trial and error adjustment...for very little
benefit. Think about it...typical flight scenario involves deploying
the flaps for landing and maybe for takeoff. Two pitch
adjustments...just doesn't take that long...
Jeremy Casey
New Kitfox builder...
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Pearsall [mailto:donpearsall@comcast.net]
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Automatic Trim
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall"
<donpearsall@comcast.net>
Hi Guy, I am trying to understand the reason why you would want the
pitch
trim and the flaps connected. Is it to offset the pitch you get when
applying flaps? I don't think anyone (that I know of) has done this. I
can't think of any store bought planes that do this either. It's a novel
idea, but sounds like a lot of work, because you would want them to be
independent of each other too. In other words, at times you would want
the
flaps and trim to be adjustable without affecting the other.
Tell us more about your thinking.
Don Pearsall
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Guy
Buchanan
Subject: Kitfox-List: Automatic Trim
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
All,
I had a thought as I tried to figure out how to install a
manual
pitch trim. What if I connected the trim to the flap system, so the
flaps
and pitch trim were permanently connected. Has anyone done this? Are
there
any obvious problems I'm missing?
Thanks,
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Message 5
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Actually I have a trim assist kit. It will not work on the IV or earlier
models because of the friction lock flap handle. The kit essentially
connects the flaps and the elevator (not trim) so that when flaps are
applied it relieves the additional back pressure required to maintain a
trimmed aircraft. Works very well.
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Don Pearsall
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Automatic Trim
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
Hi Guy, I am trying to understand the reason why you would want the pitch
trim and the flaps connected. Is it to offset the pitch you get when
applying flaps? I don't think anyone (that I know of) has done this. I
can't think of any store bought planes that do this either. It's a novel
idea, but sounds like a lot of work, because you would want them to be
independent of each other too. In other words, at times you would want the
flaps and trim to be adjustable without affecting the other.
Tell us more about your thinking.
Don Pearsall
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Guy Buchanan
Subject: Kitfox-List: Automatic Trim
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
All,
I had a thought as I tried to figure out how to install a manual
pitch trim. What if I connected the trim to the flap system, so the flaps
and pitch trim were permanently connected. Has anyone done this? Are there
any obvious problems I'm missing?
Thanks,
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Automatic Trim |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mdkitfox@aol.com
Guy,
After a very short while you get so used to adjusting the trim that it
becomes second nature and you don't even think about it. I'm aware of a few high
performance jets that have systems that you describe. They compensate for
extreme pitch changes during slat/flap deployment. They are complex systems
and I'm betting they're used to solve problems the manufacturers faced during
certification. If I remember correctly the Lockheed Jetstar's entire
empennage moved to compensate for pitch changes and on the Gulfstream IV the
horizontal Stabilizer did the work. No one would put this type of system on an
aircraft unless it was absolutely necessary. If it was that desirable, I would
think it would be a buyer option during purchase:)
All that being said, that's why we have experimental aviation. If you can
build a better 'mousetrap' I say go for it!
Do Not Archive
Rick Weiss
Series V Speedster N39RW, 912S
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: New to Kitfox... |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: John King <kingjohne@adelphia.net>
Jeremy,
I'll address two questions. Relative to the condition of the plywood
ribs and other wood parts, one of my concerns would be the exposure to
moisture. You do not want to coat them with epoxy varnish if they are
not relatively dry. I would expose them to a relatively warm dry
environment for a while, then apply PolyFiber epoxy varnish. The smaller
pieces might warp some in the process of drying, so add small weight to
hold them flat.
The Hysol and 3M epoxy are probably expired by now. Check the dates on
the cans. When you open them up, one of the cans (don't remember which)
will clean out your sinuses real quick if you take a deep sniff. Be
careful and then through it out.
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
Jeremy Casey wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeremy Casey" <n79rt@kilocharlie.us>
>
>Reposted this...it came through in HTML form and was pretty garbled...I
>fixed it...
>
>
>Thought Id introduce myselfI just purchased an unstarted Series 5
>Vixen kit. I have built a few planes already so am not new to
>homebuilding, but am completely new to Kitfoxes. This is my first
>project to need to bond anything (not counting polytak) and the
>first to involve any wood. Soooo Im looking for a little help getting
>started. I have also been trying to figure out where Im at with this
>kitas I have multiple nose wheel forks and upgrade kits for this and
>that. This was serial number 27 manufactured circa early 94 and as
>such was fairly early in the development cyclebasically I think ever AD
>that ever come out about series 5,6,7 planes will apply to this kit and
>have to be dealt withany advise regarding that appreciated greatly.
>
>Couple of quick and specific questions
>
>Ive heard of Hysol adhesive that is a grey mess that will glue
>anything to anythingthis kit has a couple of cans of 3M Scotchweldis
>that the same stuff, just different trade name? I havent looked up the
>shelf life of the stuff YET, but figure 10 years is probably old enough
>to just throw it out and buy new
>
>I read that there was some concern about the electric pitch trim
>actuator used in this kit (and noticed the series 7 has a completely
>manual system) What is the story with that actuator and what has been
>done in the past.
>
>I didnt find any upholstery in the packagesis this something that was
>purchased separately?
>
>The wings were originally bought as a quickbuild, so they were
>assembled already. Buuuutttttt, the wood was never sealed I dont
>believenow I dont see any signs of decay or anything of the like (they
>were kept out of the weather) but does that give anyone the chills?
>Or is that just a case of inspect, seal them right, and move on?
>
>The next question is a tough onethere will have to be some welding done
>on this cage, and it is powdercaotedwhat is the best way to get the
>stuff off of the areas that will be affected by heat? I know you can
>sand it off, and I think a bead blaster can take it off, but other than
>that does anyone have any knowledge of it? Im desperately hoping that
>there is some solvent that will take it off
>
>The flaperons look marvelous except for a vinyl (I think) protective
>coating that was on them that has started to come off in places, but
>doesnt appear to be eager to come off in othersis there a trick to
>this? If there is no easy way to do thisplease break it too me gentle,
>as I drove 36 hours over 2 days to get this thing and Im a little
>weak still ;-)
>
>As best I can tell, the spring gear is actually the same between the
>taildragger and tri-gear versionsis this correct? (obviously mounted
>in different places) I am going to convert this plane to a taildragger
>one way or the other (hence the powdercoat removal question)
>
>All for now
>
>
>Jeremy Casey
>KiloCharlie Drafting, Inc.
>jeremy@kilocharlie.us
>http://www.kilocharlie.us/Flying.htm
>
>
>
>
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
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