Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:01 AM - Latest on 912 coolant and oil? (Paul Seehafer)
2. 09:26 AM - Re: Latest on 912 coolant and oil? (flier)
3. 10:45 AM - Re: second alternator (Paul Wilson)
4. 03:44 PM - Re: Re: second alternator (Gerns25@netscape.net)
5. 06:02 PM - Re: Latest on 912 coolant and oil? (Lowell Fitt)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Latest on 912 coolant and oil? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
All,
I'm getting ready to run my 912ul on my model IV, so I went and read all of
that (very confusing) stuff on the www.rotax-owners.com site for the latest
and greatest on coolants and oils, plus I searched the kitfox list for info.
But I haven't found anything real current. And seeing how this stuff seems
to be continually changing, I thought I had better ask all of you before
putting the wrong stuff in my engine.
So, my questions are;
- Has there been any updated information on coolant requirements?
- Is Evans Waterless coolant still the way to go?
- How much coolant will I need to buy for my 912ul Model IV (no heater core)
- Is it ok to use standard coolant in the 912 yet? (I tend to go places
that are pretty far off the beaten path. At times regular coolant can be
hard enough to find, much less Waterless EVANs NPG)
- What is the best oil to run?
- And last but not least, I heard I have to bleed the oil and coolant
systems of trapped air prior to starting the engine. Is this true? And how
does one do it if it is?
Suggestions? Ideas? Advice?
Paul Seehafer
Central Wisconsin
Model IV-1200 912ul on Aerocet Amphibs
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Latest on 912 coolant and oil? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
Paul,
I'm running Evan's in my 912 and my Nieuport's Sube
and like it. If you haven't put any coolant in your
engine yet you could get by with a gallon of
coolant. If you have, you'll also need a gallon of
flush. You can't use any water from then on.
Regards,
Ted
--- Original Message ---
From: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Latest on 912 coolant and oil?
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer"
<av8rps@tznet.com>
>
>All,
>
>I'm getting ready to run my 912ul on my model IV, so
I went and read all of
>that (very confusing) stuff on the www.rotax-
owners.com site for the latest
>and greatest on coolants and oils, plus I searched
the kitfox list for info.
>But I haven't found anything real current. And
seeing how this stuff seems
>to be continually changing, I thought I had better
ask all of you before
>putting the wrong stuff in my engine.
>
>So, my questions are;
>
>- Has there been any updated information on coolant
requirements?
>
>- Is Evans Waterless coolant still the way to go?
>
>- How much coolant will I need to buy for my 912ul
Model IV (no heater core)
>
>- Is it ok to use standard coolant in the 912 yet?
(I tend to go places
>that are pretty far off the beaten path. At times
regular coolant can be
>hard enough to find, much less Waterless EVANs NPG)
>
>- What is the best oil to run?
>
>- And last but not least, I heard I have to bleed
the oil and coolant
>systems of trapped air prior to starting the
engine. Is this true? And how
>does one do it if it is?
>
>Suggestions? Ideas? Advice?
>
>Paul Seehafer
>Central Wisconsin
>Model IV-1200 912ul on Aerocet Amphibs
>
>
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: second alternator |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Paul Wilson <pwilson@climber.org>
Lost the original message but as I remember - your strobes are exceeding
the output of the 912UL alternator. (Of course it is not the strobes but is
the combination of all the stuff you have in the panel). When the
alternator cannot keep up it means that the battery will slowly discharge.
It does not mean that you will "necessarily" burn up the regulator or
alternator. The alt is still providing much help to the tune of 15+ amps.
So it should take a while to run the battery down. It just depends on what
your load is. The fact that the alt is not keeping up in its self is not a
real problem and you can continue to fly until the battery voltage gets to
the low voltage trip (near 12.1+v). The Skystar supplied regulator probably
will die under this scenario. Buy a better unit with large heat sink. Use
what you have and limit your flight time to the amp hours in your battery.
Second alternator possibilities:
The add-on Rotax alt and the LEAF unit (for much less $) are driven from
a 2 piece pulley on the propshaft. For the round cowl a blister is needed.
Not sure about the smooth cowl? Also depending on the build date of your
engine mount you may need to modify or buy a new top left link.
One guy with a Europa mounted an alt coaxial and directly linked to the
stator. Wont work on a Kitfox as the engine is to close to the firewall,
and you would need the Rotax engine mount anyway.
If you have an engine with the optional vac pump drive internal gears you
could get a B&C unit $$ that is designed for the vac pad on a lyc. The rpms
are so low from that source it would be hardly worthwhile. I forget what
the amps are, but I discarded this solution because of the gearbox mod cost
and the low alt output.
A method I have never seen implemented would be to put a pulley on the
stator and fabricate a bracket to mount a small import alt low on the side
of the engine. It appears possible and would keep every thing in side the cowl?
Other work arounds:
Rewire the position lights to be in series for a reduction of 3+ amps and
half the illumination. Or just turn them off to save 7+ amps.
Locate an ultralight strobe setup as I have been told they draw much less
power?
Get a bigger battery or use two of them to increase the endurance. The
Rotax Rotax/Ducati regulator would have to be changed or have extra cooling
due to the high power. I like the 2 batt method because you can run on #1
until the buss low voltage light comes on then A) switch to #2 and go to
your endurance buss and keep flying to the predetermined time. You should
know from testing how much longer your flight will last on endurance mode
before your electrical items drop off line. Or B) just switch to the
endurance buss which should allow the battery to recharge since the
endurance buss draws much less power.
Then get a 110v smart charger and top off the batteries before the next
flight.
Go ahead and add the landing lights and just turn them on at the last
minute at a time when you don't care if the battery goes dead. You could
even use them in high traffic areas of flight by using a flasher to allow
you to be seen. Just be sure you have power remaining for the landing.
Get on the Aeroelectric list and review the archives for more detail on
what I discussed above. Lots of details remain to be evaluated as I just
presented some of the things that have been discussed at great length on
that list.
Let us know your solution.
Regards, Paul
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: second alternator |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Gerns25@netscape.net
Paul,
Thanks for the information. You sound like a wealth of knowledge on the subject.
I like the idea of installing a pulley on the stator and using a small import
alternator to get more amps. Like I said in my original post, I am not exactly
an electrical engineer so I do have some questions you may be able to help
me with. First, with the above setup, could this be wired into the existing
electical system without changing the voltage regulator (I have the Ducatti
regulator currently), and second, where could someone get a stock pulley that
would work or would this need to be fabricated also? I would love to have an
extra 20 amps or so and not have to worry about discharging my battery.
Darin
Paul Wilson <pwilson@climber.org> wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Paul Wilson <pwilson@climber.org>
>
>Lost the original message but as I remember - your strobes are exceeding
>the output of the 912UL alternator. (Of course it is not the strobes but is
>the combination of all the stuff you have in the panel). When the
>alternator cannot keep up it means that the battery will slowly discharge.
>It does not mean that you will "necessarily" burn up the regulator or
>alternator. The alt is still providing much help to the tune of 15+ amps.
>So it should take a while to run the battery down. It just depends on what
>your load is. The fact that the alt is not keeping up in its self is not a
>real problem and you can continue to fly until the battery voltage gets to
>the low voltage trip (near 12.1+v). The Skystar supplied regulator probably
>will die under this scenario. Buy a better unit with large heat sink. Use
>what you have and limit your flight time to the amp hours in your battery.
>
>Second alternator possibilities:
> The add-on Rotax alt and the LEAF unit (for much less $) are driven from
>a 2 piece pulley on the propshaft. For the round cowl a blister is needed.
>Not sure about the smooth cowl? Also depending on the build date of your
>engine mount you may need to modify or buy a new top left link.
> One guy with a Europa mounted an alt coaxial and directly linked to the
>stator. Wont work on a Kitfox as the engine is to close to the firewall,
>and you would need the Rotax engine mount anyway.
> If you have an engine with the optional vac pump drive internal gears you
>could get a B&C unit $$ that is designed for the vac pad on a lyc. The rpms
>are so low from that source it would be hardly worthwhile. I forget what
>the amps are, but I discarded this solution because of the gearbox mod cost
>and the low alt output.
> A method I have never seen implemented would be to put a pulley on the
>stator and fabricate a bracket to mount a small import alt low on the side
>of the engine. It appears possible and would keep every thing in side the cowl?
> Other work arounds:
> Rewire the position lights to be in series for a reduction of 3+ amps and
>half the illumination. Or just turn them off to save 7+ amps.
> Locate an ultralight strobe setup as I have been told they draw much less
>power?
> Get a bigger battery or use two of them to increase the endurance. The
>Rotax Rotax/Ducati regulator would have to be changed or have extra cooling
>due to the high power. I like the 2 batt method because you can run on #1
>until the buss low voltage light comes on then A) switch to #2 and go to
>your endurance buss and keep flying to the predetermined time. You should
>know from testing how much longer your flight will last on endurance mode
>before your electrical items drop off line. Or B) just switch to the
>endurance buss which should allow the battery to recharge since the
>endurance buss draws much less power.
> Then get a 110v smart charger and top off the batteries before the next
>flight.
>
>Go ahead and add the landing lights and just turn them on at the last
>minute at a time when you don't care if the battery goes dead. You could
>even use them in high traffic areas of flight by using a flasher to allow
>you to be seen. Just be sure you have power remaining for the landing.
>
> Get on the Aeroelectric list and review the archives for more detail on
>what I discussed above. Lots of details remain to be evaluated as I just
>presented some of the things that have been discussed at great length on
>that list.
>
> Let us know your solution.
> Regards, Paul
>
>
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Latest on 912 coolant and oil? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Hi, Paul,
I have still not installed the Evans coolant, though I plan to eventually.
I haven't had to add coolant since learning that the bottle doesn't like to
be very full - 1/2" in my airplane when cold. It always stays the same. I
change it every two years.
I use the Pennzoil Motorcycle Motor oil. It is hard to find locally, but I
found it online and bought two cases. About the oil. Rotax tests all the
oil they recommend and the latest change in the recommendations was due to
the EPA outlawing an additive that was used to prevent foaming in the return
lines and oil tank. The new recommended oils meet that requirement. The
re-marked dipstick was also for the oil foaming issue. It was found that
under certain contitions, the tank will have insufficient liquid oil and the
pump can suck air. This fro Eric Tucker last year at the Oshkosh Rotax
Forum
When charging my oil lines after an oil change - Rotax calls it "venting" -
I unhook the return line -crank case banjo fitting on the engine to tank -
and add a short piece of tubing to it that is fed to a container in case any
oil will be burped from the crank case. I plug it's fitting on the oil tank
with a rubber stopper. Then I pressurize the tank using compressed air
through a pressure regulator that is attached to the oil tank vent line.
This wil force oil down the pump feed line so the pump won't have to suck
the oil from the tank - it won't if there is air in the line. Make sure the
oil tank cap is on. I will hand prop the engine several blades then run the
starter until I see the pressure rise. It helps to remove one plug from
each cylinder to take the load off the bearings etc.
Hope this is helpful.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Latest on 912 coolant and oil?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
>
> All,
>
> I'm getting ready to run my 912ul on my model IV, so I went and read all
> of
> that (very confusing) stuff on the www.rotax-owners.com site for the
> latest
> and greatest on coolants and oils, plus I searched the kitfox list for
> info.
> But I haven't found anything real current. And seeing how this stuff
> seems
> to be continually changing, I thought I had better ask all of you before
> putting the wrong stuff in my engine.
>
> So, my questions are;
>
> - Has there been any updated information on coolant requirements?
>
> - Is Evans Waterless coolant still the way to go?
>
> - How much coolant will I need to buy for my 912ul Model IV (no heater
> core)
>
> - Is it ok to use standard coolant in the 912 yet? (I tend to go places
> that are pretty far off the beaten path. At times regular coolant can be
> hard enough to find, much less Waterless EVANs NPG)
>
> - What is the best oil to run?
>
> - And last but not least, I heard I have to bleed the oil and coolant
> systems of trapped air prior to starting the engine. Is this true? And
> how
> does one do it if it is?
>
> Suggestions? Ideas? Advice?
>
> Paul Seehafer
> Central Wisconsin
> Model IV-1200 912ul on Aerocet Amphibs
>
>
>
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