Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:57 AM - Re: Cowling / windshield seal. Gap (Kerry Skyring)
2. 06:21 AM - doors open (Lowell Fitt)
3. 06:29 AM - Re: doors open (Clifford Begnaud)
4. 06:48 AM - Re: A Wale of a tale (Jim Crowder)
5. 06:51 AM - Re: BACK FROM OSHKOSH! (Lynn Matteson)
6. 07:13 AM - Re: New Member and question (kitfoxjunky)
7. 07:19 AM - Re: doors open (kitfoxjunky)
8. 10:28 AM - Re: doors open (John King)
9. 10:32 AM - Re: A Wale of a tale (Jim Crowder)
10. 10:48 AM - matco brake pads (John Perry)
11. 11:34 AM - Re: doors open (jdmcbean)
12. 11:54 AM - Re: doors open (Michel Verheughe)
13. 11:55 AM - Re: Cowling / windshield seal. Gap (Michel Verheughe)
14. 11:58 AM - Re: Cowling / windshield seal. Gap (Michel Verheughe)
15. 02:02 PM - Turn coordinator vs. Turn and bank indicator (Michel Verheughe)
16. 02:02 PM - Re: doors open (Chenoweth)
17. 03:33 PM - Fuselage Longerons (Guy Buchanan)
18. 04:34 PM - Re: matco brake pads (John Stoner)
19. 04:34 PM - Re: Fuselage Longerons (Ceashman@aol.com)
20. 04:38 PM - Re: Turn coordinator vs. Turn and bank indicator (Guy Buchanan)
21. 05:05 PM - Re: Turn coordinator vs. Turn and bank indicator (clemwehner)
22. 05:14 PM - Re: Fuselage Longerons (Guy Buchanan)
23. 05:32 PM - Re: Fuselage Longerons (Brett Walmsley)
24. 07:23 PM - Re: doors open (Lowell Fitt)
25. 07:23 PM - Re: Fuselage Longerons (Lowell Fitt)
26. 09:49 PM - Re: Cowling / windshield seal. Gap (Ceashman@aol.com)
27. 10:04 PM - Re: Turn coordinator vs. Turn and bank indicator (James Shumaker)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling / windshield seal. Gap |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kerry Skyring" <kerryskyring@hotmail.com>
I recall a discussion on this a year or so back and someone suggested
something like the following. Run a good seam of silicone sealer around the
lip of the top cowl where it meets the windscreen. Quickly cover this with a
strip of kitchen type plastic wrap so the silicone won't stick to the
windscreen. Match the cowl to the windscreen so that the silicon is formed
to the shape and gap that exists between the two surfaces. Remove cowl, let
silicone dry and remove kitchen wrap.
It sounds like a good method especially when dealing with an uneven gap. I
hasten to add that I have no practical experience of this but I did note it
as a possible cure if we have any leaks. We are using a hardware store
stick-on rubber sealer but have yet to wheel the plane out into the weather.
If we have leaks I will give the silicon method a try. The archive should
have the original instructions on the silicone method.
Cheers.
Kerry - Kitfox builders helper - S5 - 912S. Nearly there!! September
lift-off?
>
>
Message 2
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
I confess that I flew with the left side door open for the first time last
week. A question for the open door veterans, do you restrict open door
flying to under a certain airspeed?
Lowell
Message 3
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
Lowell,
I do it all the time.... I haven't noticed a problem at 110 mph. That's
about as fast as I've done it. When its real bumpy I'll close the door.
I've also done take-offs and landings with the door open, no problem, but it
will stall a little easier. One thing I would suggest you avoid is slipping
toward the open door. Could feasibly affect your fabric. Maybe nothing more
than un-gluing it from the frame tubing, but I don't want to find out what
else might happen.
Cliff
S5, Lyc 0-235
Erie, CO
>
> I confess that I flew with the left side door open for the first time last
> week. A question for the open door veterans, do you restrict open door
> flying to under a certain airspeed?
>
> Lowell
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | A Wale of a tale |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Crowder <jimlc@att.net>
It is part of the membership benefit of belonging to AOPA. There wasn't
too much more to the story. It was a short feature.
Jim Crowder
At 11:21 PM 8/1/2005, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harry Tucker" <harry@htucker.com>
>
>Where does one get the August AOPA magazine.?
>
>
>Harry Tucker
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: BACK FROM OSHKOSH! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
No cell here, but mine's (517)522-6354...now, I'm trying to recall your
plane...was it the one with the "stylized" (metal sheet added for
nostalgic look) spring gear...yellow? I should've taken more pictures
so I could better associate a name with a face with a plane!
Lynn
On Monday, August 1, 2005, at 08:02 PM, RAY Gignac wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "RAY Gignac" <KITFOXPILOT@msn.com>
>
> Lynn,
>
> Sure was nice to meet you, and talk Kitfox! looking forward to seeing
> you and the Kitfox at Oshkosh next year. Let's keep in touch.
>
> Ray Gignac
> (301) 518-2262 my Cell
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: New Member and question |
Serialize complete at 08/02/2005 10:13:10 AM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky <kitfoxjunky@decisionlabs.com>
My KF IV has a black rubber seal along the top of the upper cowling. I am
not sure ... but it looks like the same material that I used on the
inspection cover on the tail of my Aerobat when I repainted it years ago.
I got mine from a Rubbermaid factory outlet..but you can get it from most
automotive supply places too.
Gary Walsh
C-GOOT
www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
do not archive
Message 7
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Serialize complete at 08/02/2005 10:19:07 AM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky <kitfoxjunky@decisionlabs.com>
HI Lowell
I have opened the doors at 100 MPH...but the wind and noise do not make
for a relaxing environment. I usually slow it down now to 85 mph. Found
when I side slip it...the door will slam shut. Good to keep in mind if
you along and trying to get the passenger door closed. Pretty long reach
to do it the normal way.
Cheers,
Gary Walsh
C-GOOT
www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
do not archive
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
I confess that I flew with the left side door open for the first time last
week. A question for the open door veterans, do you restrict open door
flying to under a certain airspeed?
Lowell
Message 8
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: John King <kingjohne@adelphia.net>
Lowed,
One of the limitations I noticed is when you want to close the door.
When cruising at 120 mph it is very difficult to reach out the cabin and
grab the door. The wind resistance is so strong it is hard to hold your
arm out straight and the door is much harder to pull closed. I then
have to slow down to well below 100 mph to do it with ease. Also
slipping hard with the door or doors open can crack or brake the
triangular side windows, especially on the earlier models (Models 1, 2,
3, & 4). I have seen this happen on other Kitfox's. I have also seen
charts depart the aircraft.
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
kitfoxjunky wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky <kitfoxjunky@decisionlabs.com>
>
>HI Lowell
>
>I have opened the doors at 100 MPH...but the wind and noise do not make
>for a relaxing environment. I usually slow it down now to 85 mph. Found
>when I side slip it...the door will slam shut. Good to keep in mind if
>you along and trying to get the passenger door closed. Pretty long reach
>to do it the normal way.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Gary Walsh
>C-GOOT
>www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
>
>do not archive
>
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>
>I confess that I flew with the left side door open for the first time last
>
>week. A question for the open door veterans, do you restrict open door
>flying to under a certain airspeed?
>
>Lowell
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | A Wale of a tale |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Crowder <jimlc@att.net>
I wonder if anyone has tried this on a Kitfox?
Jim Crowder
At 11:24 PM 8/1/2005, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
>
>Jim I have not read the article yet, but that is very interesting. We all
>know about the golf ball effect and how it breaks up the boundary layer, but
>did you know that "bumpy tape" is sold specifically for this? A lot of
>gliders use this tape on their leading edges to gain lift and reduce drag.
>Hmmmm, maybe it can be used on my land speed race motorcycle...
>
>Don Pearsall
Message 10
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| Subject: | matco brake pads |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Perry" <eskflyer@pld.com>
Hello fellow flyers , does anyone have the part number for the brake pads
for the matco brakes or the rapco pad number to cross them to ?.
I really need to replace mine and am havign trouble finding the part number
Thanks
John Perry
Kitfox 2 N718PD
Message 11
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
I have flown with the standard doors open extensively.... I have also opened
them at 125 IAS. As a standard rule I tend to use the flap operating speed
80 as a door open speed as well. Although I do not treat it as gospel just a
general rule. I haven't had the bubble doors open over 90 IAS yet.
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
Message 12
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
John King wrote:
> I have also seen charts depart the aircraft.
... Gosh! Have you been spying om me again, John? :-)
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling / windshield seal. Gap |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Kerry Skyring wrote:
> Run a good seam of silicone sealer around the
> lip of the top cowl where it meets the windscreen.
Yes, that's what I was thinking of doing, Kerry. Only that I wait until someone
else does it and learn from it! :-)
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling / windshield seal. Gap |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Ceashman@aol.com wrote:
> Maybe it is because you have a Mark III that the cowling is different.
Yes, I suspect that our planes are slightly different. I am pleased with mine,
though. Only that the center attachment point is a bit difficult to position
when attaching the top cowling. But that doesn't happen too often now that I
made the top cowling in two parts. I only need to remove the aft top part when
I need to work on the instruments between the panel and firewall.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Turn coordinator vs. Turn and bank indicator |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
A simple question, friends:
What is the difference between a turn coordinator and a turn and bank indicator?
Well, I know the difference about how it looks and how it works. But what is
the practical difference when you fly and what is recommended?
Of course, with a European ultralight registered Kitfox, there is no IFR and no
need for gyro instruments. But I know a guy who has a brand new Falcon gauge
turn and bank indicator for sale quite cheap. It will fit the 2 1/4" hole where
I have now my inclinometer.
After I was down to 500 feet and saw nothing through the front windshield, in
The Netherlands, last June, I have become aware of a sudden lost of sight of
the ground. Could that instrument help me or just give me a false impression of
safety?
I'd appreciate any comment, guys.
Cheers,
Michel
Message 16
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
I recently (last month) asked Frank Miller (SkyStar) about this and his
response was to slow down to 80 - 90 to open. No mention of max speed with
doors open. I've now done opens and closes at those speeds without problem.
I was surprised how little shaking they do even at 95-100.
Bill
IV-1200
----- Original Message -----
From: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: doors open
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
>
> I have flown with the standard doors open extensively.... I have also
opened
> them at 125 IAS. As a standard rule I tend to use the flap operating
speed
> 80 as a door open speed as well. Although I do not treat it as gospel just
a
> general rule. I haven't had the bubble doors open over 90 IAS yet.
>
> Fly Safe !!
> John & Debra McBean
> www.sportplanellc.com
> "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Fuselage Longerons |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
All,
As we stood and admired my Kitfox-IV last week I noticed that the
top fuselage longerons in the big bay behind the comm antenna, (one bay
back from the turtle deck,) appeared to be bowed inward about an inch per
side. It's a long bay and I wondered if my builder had become over zealous
with the heat gun during material shrinkage, pulling the longerons inward.
This is an obvious structural concern, since the bowed longerons have much
less buckling strength than straight ones. Does anyone else see this, or
are your upper fuselage longerons nice and straight?
Thanks,
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: matco brake pads |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Stoner" <john@dakotacubaircraft.com>
Hi John,
The brakes on my Modell III are identified in my builders manual as Matco #
LBRH-12R.
I looked on the Matco web page, matcomfg.com, and could not find any
reference to this model number.
I think the old Matco Co. closed down or something, and the new Matco
started up in 2000.
Good luck with your search, and please post your results. More of us will
be needing pad replacements in the future.
Regards,
John Stoner
KF III, 582
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Longerons |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ceashman@aol.com
In a message dated 8/2/2005 6:34:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bnn@nethere.com
writes:
Does anyone else see this, or
are your upper fuselage longerons nice and straight?
Hello Guy.
If I look down the top edge of my IV I also see a little fusewarping (not the
same as wing warping' Ha! ha!). In fact you should see this on every Kitfox,
unless the fabric is too lose.
I think if the real heavy fabric was used you should see drastic deformation.
The Kitfox uses the middle weight and the heavy would be for real big tube
stuff like the Skybolt.
If you have a close look at a J3 Cub for example you should see some
"longeron bow"
I covered the fuselage and the wings with the same middle grade Polyfiber
fabric and used the same heat. I haven't cracked a wing rib or false rib with the
tightening.
So' I think it is normal.
Eric.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Turn coordinator vs. Turn and bank indicator |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 01:59 PM 8/2/2005, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>
>A simple question, friends:
...
>the ground. Could that instrument help me or just give me a false
>impression of safety?
If you're at 500' and go IFR with just a T&B, you might want to figure out
a way to kiss your #&$ goodbye. AOPA Air Safety has published the results
of tests that show the AVERAGE time a VFR pilot stays upright on FULL
instruments, (including an attitude indicator,) is just over 2 minutes.
Many loose it immediately, very few are able to make a full 180 and get
back into clear air. And it is MUCH harder to stay upright using a T&B
instead of an attitude indicator. Just ask the IFR pilots how much they
like partial panel.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 21
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| Subject: | Turn coordinator vs. Turn and bank indicator |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "clemwehner" <clemwehner@sbcglobal.net>
If you have a computer with Flight Simulator, bring up a Cessna and fly
partial panel with the T&B and the Turn Coordinator. You'll get a feel
for what they do differently. Both would be challenging in a real IFR
situation, but I'd rather have the Turn coordinator.
Clem
Oklahoma
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Longerons |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 04:34 PM 8/2/2005, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ceashman@aol.com
...
>So' I think it is normal.
>Eric.
Thanks Eric. You've reduce my stress level a few beers.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Longerons |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" <kitfox4@numail.org>
I am bowed inward as well. Seems normal.
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>
> All,
> As we stood and admired my Kitfox-IV last week I noticed that the
> top fuselage longerons in the big bay behind the comm antenna, (one bay
> back from the turtle deck,) appeared to be bowed inward about an inch per
> side. It's a long bay and I wondered if my builder had become over zealous
> with the heat gun during material shrinkage, pulling the longerons inward.
> This is an obvious structural concern, since the bowed longerons have much
> less buckling strength than straight ones. Does anyone else see this, or
> are your upper fuselage longerons nice and straight?
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
>
>
Message 24
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Thanks for the answers posted regarding open door flying. Good information.
Lowell
do not archive
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Longerons |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Guy,
What you might do is look at a bunch of Kitfoxes and see what is out there.
It is possible to put too much heat on the fabric and warp the longerons.
The SS manual calls - at least when I was building - for less heat than the
Polyfiber manual recommends for the final shrink temperature. Some builders
have used the Polyfiber recommentations on the belief that they developed
the system and they should know best. The recommendations from SS had to do
with the engineering of the airframe and what it would tolerate.
I have seen some airplanes that are quite wasp waisted. In my opinion they
were over shrunk. whether it is an issue, I am not knowledgable enough to
give an opinion on that. But to reiterate what has been said, all Kitfoxes
are at least a little bit wasp waisted behind the wings.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Guy Buchanan" <bnn@nethere.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuselage Longerons
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>
> All,
> As we stood and admired my Kitfox-IV last week I noticed that the
> top fuselage longerons in the big bay behind the comm antenna, (one bay
> back from the turtle deck,) appeared to be bowed inward about an inch per
> side. It's a long bay and I wondered if my builder had become over zealous
> with the heat gun during material shrinkage, pulling the longerons inward.
> This is an obvious structural concern, since the bowed longerons have much
> less buckling strength than straight ones. Does anyone else see this, or
> are your upper fuselage longerons nice and straight?
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
>
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling / windshield seal. Gap |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ceashman@aol.com
In a message dated 8/2/2005 2:59:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
michel@online.no writes:
>But that doesn't happen too often now that I
>made the top cowling in two parts. I only need to remove the aft top part
when
>I need to work on the instruments between the panel and firewall.
Michel.
I remember you switched your motor to a Subaru? and I know you made quite a
modification to the cowl front section. Is that why you made the top section in
two parts?
Anyway' the windshield to cowling gap is a tricky part of the building
process. Less of a problem if you have the pre-molded windshield, but with the
flat
sheet you have to wrestle and bend this to meet the door frame and then you
have to position the floating cowling system to center it to the prop flange
(the prop flange a little higher in the case of the 912 to allow for the oil
cooler) the lower door frame and of course, the curve of the top cowling to the
windshield.
When I think back, I believe this was one of the most difficult parts of the
building process, having the cowling, windshield and instrument panel all
mobile and trying to get things to line up.
In fact, my new project, a Skybolt. I am having fits working with the bubble
canopy. But it is like everything else, what makes us home built plane people
special is that we can call on lots and lots of patience when necessary. This
is what gets the job done!
Greetings. Eric.
DO NOT ARCHIVE.
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| Subject: | Re: Turn coordinator vs. Turn and bank indicator |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: James Shumaker <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
Hi Micheal
I fly with a turn and bank, which is the type of turn coordinator that has the
little airplane in the window. I have often considered it an excess 2 pounds
of weight that sucked electricity and would never use. But I was wrong. Have
you ever flown into a fog (haze) with the sun in your eyes? We have a low fog
or haze at the coast here and I have been on final approach into Monterey and
had to go restricted visibility to get through the glare. Yes I flew the turn
coordinator, airspeed and compass to get underneath. We also have a thin stratus
that sets up that is often less than 500 feet thick. There are often holes
that you can almost get through. Again a minute on the gyro is very useful.
There is no way I would fly into IFR weather with the slightest chop, the
kitfox is too short coupled to keep the instruments stable. But flying IFR
is not magic or a secret. It is a discipline that must be practiced. The weather
can change on you quicker than your plane can fl
y. I
had one instance where the weather shut down during a Young Eagles flight. There
were 3 or 4 of us that headed back and were in the pattern to land. I was
the last in line and as soon as I landed the tower declared the field to be IFR.
Of course I had the ground in sight the gps loaded for ILS landing and the
gyro in my field of view so the event concluded without any concern or tension.
Jim Shumaker
Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe
A simple question, friends:
What is the difference between a turn coordinator and a turn and bank indicator?
Well, I know the difference about how it looks and how it works. But what is
the practical difference when you fly and what is recommended?
Of course, with a European ultralight registered Kitfox, there is no IFR and no
need for gyro instruments. But I know a guy who has a brand new Falcon gauge
turn and bank indicator for sale quite cheap. It will fit the 2 1/4" hole where
I have now my inclinometer.
After I was down to 500 feet and saw nothing through the front windshield, in
The Netherlands, last June, I have become aware of a sudden lost of sight of
the ground. Could that instrument help me or just give me a false impression of
safety?
I'd appreciate any comment, guys.
Cheers,
Michel
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