Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 10:18 AM - Re: Turn coordinator vs. Turn and bank indicator (Michael Gibbs)
2. 02:25 PM - Re: Turn coordinator vs. Turn and bank indicator - Garmin 196? (Randy Daughenbaugh)
3. 07:14 PM - Murle Williams Products (Michael Gibbs)
4. 07:26 PM - Re: Murle Williams Products (Don Pearsall)
5. 08:04 PM - Re: Murle Williams Products (John Perry)
6. 09:47 PM - Fabric socks vs rolls (ron schick)
7. 09:56 PM - test (ron schick)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Turn coordinator vs. Turn and bank indicator |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
Kerry sez:
>And thanks to Michael Gibbs for the great explanation of the the
>instruments. I actually didn't understand that the AH - Artificial
>Horizon - is just a fancy Bat and Ball.
I don't think that's exactly what I said. :-)
I was comparing a Turn & Bank Indicator (gyro mounted on a horizontal
axis) to a Turn Coordinator (gyro mounted on a tilted axis). An
Attitude Indicator (or Artificial Horizon) is another beast
altogether. Still a single gyro inside, this one has it's axis
mounted vertically so that it can show roll or pitch deviations from
level but not yaw. Both Turn & Bank and Turn Coordinators have a
slip/skid ball at the bottom while Attitude Indicators typically
don't.
The latest trend in the IFR world (sanctioned by the FAA) is to
replace the Turn & Bank or Turn Coordinator with a backup Attitude
Indicator that has a built-in slip/skid ball. Studies have shown
that pilots do a better job of keeping the greasy side down with an
Attitude Indicator than with a Turn & Bank or a Turn Coordinator.
Forgive my crude sketches, but at least they'll make it through the
mailing list software (view with a fixed-pitch font such as Courier
for best results):
Turn & Bank - gyro axle is mounted horizontally and rotates vertically.
----
/- -\
/ \
// \\
/ \ \
| \ / |
| \ / |
| \ / |
axle ------+------\-----+----- axle
| /\ |
| / \ |
| / \ |
\ / \ /
\\/ //
\ /
\- -/
----
Turn Coordinator - gyro axle is tilted up 30 degrees to allow roll
sensing, but the primary indication is still yaw rate.
axle
/
------+------ //
/// | \XX
// | // \\
/ | // \
| | // |
| |/ |
+--------------+--------------+
| // | |
| // | |
\ // | /
\\ // | //
//\\\ | ///
// ------+------
//
//
axle
Attitude Indicator - gyro axle is mounted vertically to sense roll
and pitch changes.
axle
|
-----+----
-------+------
//// | \\\\
|/ -- | -- \|
| ---- | --- |
| --+-- |
| --- | --- |
|\ --- | --- /|
\\\\ | ////
-------+------
-----+----
|
axle
Hope this is helpful.
Mike G.
N728KF
Message 2
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| Subject: | Turn coordinator vs. Turn and bank indicator - Garmin |
196?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
Thanks Mike. I have found this whole discussion educational. I was
watching for someone to bring up the "panel view" on the Garmin GPSmap 196.
So I am bringing it up!
The panel view is a real useful presentation of GPS data. GPS's are much
more accurate in position change than in absolute position. So the "Panel
View" presents speed (ground speed!), heading, altitude, VSI (I especially
appreciate this since I do not have a vertical speed indicator), AND a "bank
indicator".
Bank indication is presented like a turn coordinator - showing wings. Of
course this is not based on gyros at all, but rather on whether the path of
the plane is straight or curved. The tighter the curve, the more the bank.
I have played with it only a little, but it looks like it could conceivably
give you enough data to save yourself if needed. It does have all the
lawyerly disclaimers that it can not be relied for flight data, or some
such, but it still seems to work well. (Is this view available on the 296?)
So is there someone who can comment on their experience with this
instrument? I guess preconceived opinions would be welcome, but I would
appreciate hearing from experience.
Randy
.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Gibbs
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Turn coordinator vs. Turn and bank indicator
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
Kerry sez:
>And thanks to Michael Gibbs for the great explanation of the the
>instruments. I actually didn't understand that the AH - Artificial
>Horizon - is just a fancy Bat and Ball.
I don't think that's exactly what I said. :-)
I was comparing a Turn & Bank Indicator (gyro mounted on a horizontal
axis) to a Turn Coordinator (gyro mounted on a tilted axis). An
Attitude Indicator (or Artificial Horizon) is another beast
altogether. Still a single gyro inside, this one has it's axis
mounted vertically so that it can show roll or pitch deviations from
level but not yaw. Both Turn & Bank and Turn Coordinators have a
slip/skid ball at the bottom while Attitude Indicators typically
don't.
The latest trend in the IFR world (sanctioned by the FAA) is to
replace the Turn & Bank or Turn Coordinator with a backup Attitude
Indicator that has a built-in slip/skid ball. Studies have shown
that pilots do a better job of keeping the greasy side down with an
Attitude Indicator than with a Turn & Bank or a Turn Coordinator.
Forgive my crude sketches, but at least they'll make it through the
mailing list software (view with a fixed-pitch font such as Courier
for best results):
Turn & Bank - gyro axle is mounted horizontally and rotates vertically.
----
/- -\
/ \
// \\
/ \ \
| \ / |
| \ / |
| \ / |
axle ------+------\-----+----- axle
| /\ |
| / \ |
| / \ |
\ / \ /
\\/ //
\ /
\- -/
----
Turn Coordinator - gyro axle is tilted up 30 degrees to allow roll
sensing, but the primary indication is still yaw rate.
axle
/
------+------ //
/// | \XX
// | // \\
/ | // \
| | // |
| |/ |
+--------------+--------------+
| // | |
| // | |
\ // | /
\\ // | //
//\\\ | ///
// ------+------
//
//
axle
Attitude Indicator - gyro axle is mounted vertically to sense roll
and pitch changes.
axle
|
-----+----
-------+------
//// | \\\\
|/ -- | -- \|
| ---- | --- |
| --+-- |
| --- | --- |
|\ --- | --- /|
\\\\ | ////
-------+------
-----+----
|
axle
Hope this is helpful.
Mike G.
N728KF
Message 3
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| Subject: | Murle Williams Products |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
Hi,
Recently someone posted an e-mail suggesting that another list member
contact Murle Williams but he indicated that he couldn't find any
contact information for Murle on the 'net (another member was nice
enough to post Murle's phone number shortly thereafter).
The reason Murle was tough to find is that he only joined the 21st
century this week! I'm happy to announce that Murle now has a web
site where you can find information, photos, and pricing information
for all of his products as well as phone and e-mail contact
information and even some hints and tips from this three-time
national award winning airplane builder and his team.
All it took was a little prodding and my volunteering to put the site
together for him. :-).
Bookmark his URL: <http://www.MurleWilliamsAviation.com>
Mike G.
N728KF
Message 4
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| Subject: | Murle Williams Products |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
Way to go Mike! I always wondered what happened to Murle. These days if you
cannot get any information on-line, you might as well be on Mars. So it is
great that you made a web site happen for him. It is a good looking one too.
Congratulations to you.
Don Pearsall
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Gibbs
Subject: Kitfox-List: Murle Williams Products
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
Hi,
Recently someone posted an e-mail suggesting that another list member
contact Murle Williams but he indicated that he couldn't find any
contact information for Murle on the 'net (another member was nice
enough to post Murle's phone number shortly thereafter).
The reason Murle was tough to find is that he only joined the 21st
century this week! I'm happy to announce that Murle now has a web
site where you can find information, photos, and pricing information
for all of his products as well as phone and e-mail contact
information and even some hints and tips from this three-time
national award winning airplane builder and his team.
All it took was a little prodding and my volunteering to put the site
together for him. :-).
Bookmark his URL: <http://www.MurleWilliamsAviation.com>
Mike G.
N728KF
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Murle Williams Products |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Perry" <eskflyer@pld.com>
Thank you very much for helping all of us with more stuff to buy lol . Very
nice site .
Fly safe fly low fly slow
John Perry
Kitfox 2 N718PD
-------Original Message-------
From: Michael Gibbs
Subject: Kitfox-List: Murle Williams Products
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
Hi,
Recently someone posted an e-mail suggesting that another list member
contact Murle Williams but he indicated that he couldn't find any
contact information for Murle on the 'net (another member was nice
enough to post Murle's phone number shortly thereafter).
The reason Murle was tough to find is that he only joined the 21st
century this week! I'm happy to announce that Murle now has a web
site where you can find information, photos, and pricing information
for all of his products as well as phone and e-mail contact
information and even some hints and tips from this three-time
national award winning airplane builder and his team.
All it took was a little prodding and my volunteering to put the site
together for him. :-).
Bookmark his URL: <http://www.MurleWilliamsAviation.com>
Mike G.
N728KF
Message 6
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| Subject: | Fabric socks vs rolls |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" <roncarolnikko@hotmail.com>
I hope to begin the fabric proccess before the summer days become cold in
Oregon. I was wondering if anyone had tried the sock kits Aircraft Spruce
sells? They sound like a shortcut, but is it really? Also should I just plan
on buying 5 gallon jugs of Polybrush, spray, and tone? Not my bag and I'm
almost afraid to start. Thanx in advance Ron NB Ore.
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
Message 7
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" <roncarolnikko@hotmail.com>
do not archive
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
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