---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 08/15/05: 24 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:02 AM - Rotax 912S Water Temps and RPM (kitfoxjunky) 2. 04:26 AM - Re: Rotax 912S Water Temps and RPM (kitfoxjunky) 3. 05:11 AM - Re: Dynon (Cloughley, Bill) 4. 07:11 AM - Re: Rotax 912S Water Temps and RPM (Lowell Fitt) 5. 07:35 AM - Re: Rotax 912S Water Temps and RPM - 4 Lowell (kitfoxjunky) 6. 07:54 AM - Re: Dynon (Noel & Yoshie Simmons) 7. 07:59 AM - Rotax 912 series carb syncing (kitfoxjunky) 8. 08:34 AM - Re: Rotax 912 series carb syncing (Clifford Begnaud) 9. 09:05 AM - Re: Rotax 912 series carb syncing (Clifford Begnaud) 10. 09:43 AM - Re: Re: first rebuild a good close recommendation to you (rliebmann@comcast.net) 11. 10:20 AM - Mike do you have a 912? (owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com) 12. 01:12 PM - Re: Re: first rebuild a good close recommendation to you (Aerobatics@aol.com) 13. 01:37 PM - Re: Rotax 912 series carb syncing (Jeffrey Puls) 14. 01:47 PM - Re: Re: sight gauges (Rick) 15. 02:07 PM - Re: Re: sight gauges (Michel Verheughe) 16. 04:14 PM - Re: Rotax 912 series carb syncing (Clifford Begnaud) 17. 04:29 PM - 582 cockpit fumes (jareds) 18. 04:39 PM - Re: Rotax 912 series carb syncing (John Anderson) 19. 05:04 PM - Re: Rotax 912 series carb syncing (Clifford Begnaud) 20. 05:12 PM - Re: Rotax 912S Water Temps and RPM (John King) 21. 05:28 PM - Re: Rib Templates - Classic 4 Empennage (Bill Pleso) 22. 07:29 PM - Dynon (Jim Gilliatt) 23. 08:00 PM - Re: Rotax 912 series carb syncing (Randy Daughenbaugh) 24. 09:34 PM - Re: Re: sight gauges (James Shumaker) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:02:23 AM PST US From: kitfoxjunky Subject: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912S Water Temps and RPM Serialize complete at 08/15/2005 06:01:15 AM --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky I dropped into a grass strip on the weekend and made a new friend. Fellow recently completed a RANS Courier. He did a beautiful job on it. We are both running the Rotax 912S, but he did not have the slipper clutch. We wanted to see whose engine seemed smoother, so we took each other for a ride. Something that was drilling into me by the previous owner of my plane was not to rev the engine beyond 2500 RPM until there was at least 120 deg F on the oil temp gage. This guy basically got in his plane, ran thru his check list, then took off. I did not even see the water temp needle come off the stop. He also let the engine idle in the 1500 RPM range following the runup as he completed his checklist. I never take mine below 2100 RPM as a general rule. Any comments from the Rotax drivers on the list? Is he running the risk of damaging his engine...or can these motors take that kind of treatment as a general rule? Gary Walsh C-GOOT www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:26:07 AM PST US From: kitfoxjunky Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912S Water Temps and RPM Serialize complete at 08/15/2005 07:25:27 AM --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky I meant oil temp...not water temp as in the subject line above. GW ........................................................ I dropped into a grass strip on the weekend and made a new friend. Fellow recently completed a RANS Courier. He did a beautiful job on it. We are both running the Rotax 912S, but he did not have the slipper clutch. We wanted to see whose engine seemed smoother, so we took each other for a ride. Something that was drilling into me by the previous owner of my plane was not to rev the engine beyond 2500 RPM until there was at least 120 deg F on the oil temp gage. This guy basically got in his plane, ran thru his check list, then took off. I did not even see the water temp needle come off the stop. He also let the engine idle in the 1500 RPM range following the runup as he completed his checklist. I never take mine below 2100 RPM as a general rule. Any comments from the Rotax drivers on the list? Is he running the risk of damaging his engine...or can these motors take that kind of treatment as a general rule? Gary Walsh C-GOOT www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:11:42 AM PST US Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Dynon From: "Cloughley, Bill" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cloughley, Bill" Jim, Here is a link to a Dynon installed in an RV-7 panel. The Dynon's are popular with the Vans RV builders. I think they used one in SpaceShipOne as well! http://images.rvproject.com/images/panel/panel_1280x419.jpg ... Bill Kitfox Model I/II in progress -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Gilliatt Subject: Kitfox-List: Dynon --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Gilliatt Hi Everyone, I am interested in a Dynon EFIS, and I would like to see an example of an instrument panel with a Dynon. If anyone has a picture such as this, could you email it to jim.gilliatt@att.net? Thanks in advance, Jim Gilliatt Series 7 in progress IO240 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:11:19 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912S Water Temps and RPM --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Gary, My procedures are as yours. I just checked the engine manual (Rotax) and it says to warm up at 2000 rpm until 120 F (oil temp) and then do the ignition checks. I read an article somewhere and it mentioned that the aluminum has a much quicker expansion rate then the Steel components and if the engine heats too quickly under load the differential expansion rates are the problem, i.e. piston vs. cylinder. I always wonder about the aircooled guys taxiing to the runup area, doing the runup and they are gone. On a normal day, it takes about 10 minutes for my engine to reach the 120 oil temp and I have shutters in front of the il cooler. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "kitfoxjunky" Subject: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912S Water Temps and RPM > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky > > > I dropped into a grass strip on the weekend and made a new friend. Fellow > recently completed a RANS Courier. He did a beautiful job on it. We are > both running the Rotax 912S, but he did not have the slipper clutch. We > wanted to see whose engine seemed smoother, so we took each other for a > ride. Something that was drilling into me by the previous owner of my > plane was not to rev the engine beyond 2500 RPM until there was at least > 120 deg F on the oil temp gage. This guy basically got in his plane, ran > thru his check list, then took off. I did not even see the water temp > needle come off the stop. He also let the engine idle in the 1500 RPM > range following the runup as he completed his checklist. I never take > mine below 2100 RPM as a general rule. > > Any comments from the Rotax drivers on the list? Is he running the risk > of damaging his engine...or can these motors take that kind of treatment > as a general rule? > > > Gary Walsh > C-GOOT > www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox > > do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:35:20 AM PST US From: kitfoxjunky Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912S Water Temps and RPM - 4 Lowell Serialize complete at 08/15/2005 10:35:00 AM --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky The reason they pulled the Rotax engines from the Katana series of planes was because the students were not warming them up properly, and it caused maintenance issues. I have referred this fellow to the AME who put in my slipper clutch. He was in charge of maintenance at Katana for years, and I am sure he will caution him too. I talked to another guy running the 912S on an anphib Kitfox. He indicated he regularly idles at 1450 rpm...otherwise he moves through the water too fast. What kind of idle to you normally use on the ground? Gary Walsh C-GOOT www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox do not archive "Lowell Fitt" Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com 08/15/2005 10:10 AM Please respond to kitfox-list To: cc: Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912S Water Temps and RPM --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Gary, My procedures are as yours. I just checked the engine manual (Rotax) and it says to warm up at 2000 rpm until 120 F (oil temp) and then do the ignition checks. I read an article somewhere and it mentioned that the aluminum has a much quicker expansion rate then the Steel components and if the engine heats too quickly under load the differential expansion rates are the problem, i.e. piston vs. cylinder. I always wonder about the aircooled guys taxiing to the runup area, doing the runup and they are gone. On a normal day, it takes about 10 minutes for my engine to reach the 120 oil temp and I have shutters in front of the il cooler. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "kitfoxjunky" Subject: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912S Water Temps and RPM > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky > > > I dropped into a grass strip on the weekend and made a new friend. Fellow > recently completed a RANS Courier. He did a beautiful job on it. We are > both running the Rotax 912S, but he did not have the slipper clutch. We > wanted to see whose engine seemed smoother, so we took each other for a > ride. Something that was drilling into me by the previous owner of my > plane was not to rev the engine beyond 2500 RPM until there was at least > 120 deg F on the oil temp gage. This guy basically got in his plane, ran > thru his check list, then took off. I did not even see the water temp > needle come off the stop. He also let the engine idle in the 1500 RPM > range following the runup as he completed his checklist. I never take > mine below 2100 RPM as a general rule. > > Any comments from the Rotax drivers on the list? Is he running the risk > of damaging his engine...or can these motors take that kind of treatment > as a general rule? > > > Gary Walsh > C-GOOT > www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox > > do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:54:26 AM PST US From: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Dynon --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" Jim, I am a dealer for Dynon, and other EFIS units. On my website www.blueskyaviation.net you can go to the RV side and look at panels. I have a Dynon here that is surplus at this time I am willing to sell. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Gilliatt Subject: Kitfox-List: Dynon --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Gilliatt Hi Everyone, I am interested in a Dynon EFIS, and I would like to see an example of an instrument panel with a Dynon. If anyone has a picture such as this, could you email it to jim.gilliatt@att.net? Thanks in advance, Jim Gilliatt Series 7 in progress IO240 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:59:37 AM PST US From: kitfoxjunky Subject: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912 series carb syncing Serialize complete at 08/15/2005 10:59:23 AM --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky I originally followed some published procedures to manually sync the carbs on my 912S by adjusting the throttle cable lengths. After reviewing a DVD on 912 installation tips from HomeBuilderHelp.com...I determined that syncing using a vacuum gage was pretty straightforward. With the gages in place, I was surprised how out of sync my carbs were. After I sycned them..the engine was noticeably smoother in the 3000 - 5000 range...and at idle. I think the CHT temps dropped a bit too. If you have not done this yet, I would highly recommend it. Caution..standing behind the prop adjusting the throttle cable lengths will mess up your hair. Make sure you have someone sitting in the cockpit, and the tail is tied down well. Gary Walsh C-GOOT www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox do not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:34:09 AM PST US From: "Clifford Begnaud" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912 series carb syncing --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" Another thing that can help keep your engine running smooth is blade alignment. Rotate the blades by hand indexing them against a stationary object. Make sure the distance from the stationary object is the same when you move each blade past it. Try to get them within 1/8". You can adjust this by putting very thin shims behind the prop hub. Cliff > > I originally followed some published procedures to manually sync the carbs > on my 912S by adjusting the throttle cable lengths. After reviewing a DVD > on 912 installation tips from HomeBuilderHelp.com...I determined that > syncing using a vacuum gage was pretty straightforward. With the gages > in place, I was surprised how out of sync my carbs were. After I sycned > them..the engine was noticeably smoother in the 3000 - 5000 range...and at > idle. I think the CHT temps dropped a bit too. If you have not done this > yet, I would highly recommend it. Caution..standing behind the prop > adjusting the throttle cable lengths will mess up your hair. Make sure > you have someone sitting in the cockpit, and the tail is tied down well. > > > Gary Walsh > C-GOOT > www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox > > do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:05:52 AM PST US From: "Clifford Begnaud" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912 series carb syncing --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" I forgot to add.... Use a digital level or a laser to set the pitch of the blades, if they are individually adjustable like the warp drive prop. With the little bubble level that comes with the warp drive, they claim only 1/4 degree accuracy. With a digital level you can get 1/10 degree accuracy and with a laser you can probably do that or better, if that's even possible. With these 3 things, carb sync, blade indexing and blade pitch, you can make your Rotax 912 feel like flying behind a turbine. Cliff > Another thing that can help keep your engine running smooth is blade > alignment. > Rotate the blades by hand indexing them against a stationary object. Make > sure the distance from the stationary object is the same when you move > each > blade past it. Try to get them within 1/8". You can adjust this by putting > very thin shims behind the prop hub. > Cliff > >> >> I originally followed some published procedures to manually sync the >> carbs >> on my 912S by adjusting the throttle cable lengths. After reviewing a >> DVD >> on 912 installation tips from HomeBuilderHelp.com...I determined that >> syncing using a vacuum gage was pretty straightforward. With the gages >> in place, I was surprised how out of sync my carbs were. After I sycned >> them..the engine was noticeably smoother in the 3000 - 5000 range...and >> at >> idle. I think the CHT temps dropped a bit too. If you have not done >> this >> yet, I would highly recommend it. Caution..standing behind the prop >> adjusting the throttle cable lengths will mess up your hair. Make sure >> you have someone sitting in the cockpit, and the tail is tied down well. >> >> >> Gary Walsh >> C-GOOT >> www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox >> >> do not archive >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:43:20 AM PST US From: rliebmann@comcast.net Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: first rebuild a good close recommendation to you --> Kitfox-List message posted by: rliebmann@comcast.net -------------- Original message -------------- Thanks Dave, And thanks to all who have responded to my request. Robert has chosen one rebuilder within driving distance of our Chicago area. But, I forgot who it was. Ken Rivers camped with the Ambassadors up at AirVenture. Nice guy he is. Ron DO NOT ARCHIVE> > have a request from Lister Robert Beck who just arrived in the Chicago > area from his home in Japan where he works. He has just over 300 hours on > his 582 and wants to send it out for rebuild to a shop as close to Chicago > as possible. > Can anyone recommend a shop for him? He will be in the USA until the 20th of > August so he has to work fast. > > > Thanks much, Ron N55KF > > > Hi Ron, this guy did a 150 hour on my 582BH > He is an Full service AP ( and a Rotax Service Center) and I stayed and > watched him do it. First rate. > > Maybe not the cheapest........ but Ill go back. I flew in, stayed one day > flew back home the next. > > Dave > Airport 5K6 > Skies The Limit > Ken Rivers > Work: 262-862-9099 > Cell 847-226 9674 > email: _kenrivers@owc.net_ (mailto:kenrivers@owc.net) > > > > > > -------------- Original message -------------- Thanks Dave, And thanks to all who have responded to my request. Robert has chosen one rebuilder within driving distance of our Chicago area. But, I forgot who it was. Ken Rivers camped with the Ambassadors up at AirVenture. Nice guy he is. Ron DO NOT ARCHIVE have a request from Lister Robert Beck who just arrived in the Chicago area from his home in Japan where he works. He has just over 300 hours on his 582 and wants to send it out for rebuild to a shop as close to Chicago as possible. Can anyone recommend a shop for him? He will be in the USA until the 20th of August so he has to work fast. Thanks much, Ron N55KF Hi Ron, this guy did a 150 hour on my 582BH He is an Full service AP ( and a Rotax Service Center) and I stayed and watched him do it. First rate. Maybe not the cheapest........ but Ill go back. I flew in, stayed one day flew back home the next. Dave Airport 5K6 Skies The Limit Ken Rivers Work: 262-862-9099 Cell 847-226 9674 email: _kenrivers@owc.net_ (mailto:kenrivers@owc.net ) ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:41 AM PST US From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com --> Kitfox-List message posted by: From: "Harris, Robert" Subject: Mike do you have a 912? Mike do you have a Rotax 912 on your plane? Robert Performance is engineered. My Model IV-1200 Speedster came in at... Mike G. N728KF ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:12:09 PM PST US From: Aerobatics@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: first rebuild a good close recommendation to you --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Aerobatics@aol.com it was me! Dave Patrick KF2 582 used him last year I called him in advance to see if he could take care of you.... Take care Dave ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:37:39 PM PST US From: "Jeffrey Puls" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912 series carb syncing --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Puls" Cliff, Where can I by one of those lasers? I have never liked the bubble deal on my Warp Drive. Are they expensive? Thanks, Jeff Puls 912UL > [Original Message] > From: Clifford Begnaud > To: > Date: 8/15/2005 12:05:20 PM > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912 series carb syncing > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" > > I forgot to add.... > Use a digital level or a laser to set the pitch of the blades, if they are > individually adjustable like the warp drive prop. With the little bubble > level that comes with the warp drive, they claim only 1/4 degree accuracy. > With a digital level you can get 1/10 degree accuracy and with a laser you > can probably do that or better, if that's even possible. > With these 3 things, carb sync, blade indexing and blade pitch, you can make > your Rotax 912 feel like flying behind a turbine. > Cliff > > > Another thing that can help keep your engine running smooth is blade > > alignment. > > Rotate the blades by hand indexing them against a stationary object. Make > > sure the distance from the stationary object is the same when you move > > each > > blade past it. Try to get them within 1/8". You can adjust this by putting > > very thin shims behind the prop hub. > > Cliff > > > >> > >> I originally followed some published procedures to manually sync the > >> carbs > >> on my 912S by adjusting the throttle cable lengths. After reviewing a > >> DVD > >> on 912 installation tips from HomeBuilderHelp.com...I determined that > >> syncing using a vacuum gage was pretty straightforward. With the gages > >> in place, I was surprised how out of sync my carbs were. After I sycned > >> them..the engine was noticeably smoother in the 3000 - 5000 range...and > >> at > >> idle. I think the CHT temps dropped a bit too. If you have not done > >> this > >> yet, I would highly recommend it. Caution..standing behind the prop > >> adjusting the throttle cable lengths will mess up your hair. Make sure > >> you have someone sitting in the cockpit, and the tail is tied down well. > >> > >> > >> Gary Walsh > >> C-GOOT > >> www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox > >> > >> do not archive > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:47:15 PM PST US From: "Rick" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: sight gauges --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" John, Great idea for the fuel tube. I will be putting in a couple of spray tubes this coming annual. I have a JPI fuel flow but it is real comforting to look up and actually see the fuel, especially when it gets low. Rick N656T -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Stoner Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: sight gauges --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Stoner" The sight gauge balls can be bought from FletchAir: http://www.fletchair.com/index.asp Part # F113, $3.29 each. On my KitFox I put a red nozzle tube from a WD40 can inside each sight gauge tube. The different refractive indices of the sight gauge tube with and without fuel causes the red tube to have a 'joggle' in its appearance at the fuel level. Has worked great for 13 years, cost = 0. Regards, John Stoner KF III, 582 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:07:43 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: sight gauges --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Rick wrote: > Great idea for the fuel tube. I will be putting in a couple of spray tubes > this coming annual. Yep! Great idea, John! ... only that I don't understand it. Please could someone explain it in layman's terms and ... to an aging foreigner? :-) I also have problems reading my fuel, especially when in the dark hangar, on a winter day. That's when they are usually half full. Once in the air, they become half empty! :-) Thanks in advance, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:14:30 PM PST US From: "Clifford Begnaud" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912 series carb syncing --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" I've never used a laser, I used a digital level, about $100. But I use it for many other things. You could probably go to any hardware store and find a cheap laser. The trick with either of these is to build a cradle that fits on the prop blade and holds the laser or digital level. I made mine out of wood, and it was just a cradle that had 3 contact points and would slide up the prop blade. It allowed repeatabilty and stopped at the same spot on each blade. The 3 contact points had a small groove that fit the edge of the prop blade. I no longer have that plane or prop and the cradle went with it, so I can't even take a picture of it for you. But I'm sure you can figure out something that will work. Just make sure it allows precision and repeatabilty. Cliff > > > Cliff, > Where can I by one of those lasers? I have never liked the bubble deal on > my Warp Drive. Are they expensive? Thanks, Jeff Puls 912UL > > >> [Original Message] >> From: Clifford Begnaud >> To: >> Date: 8/15/2005 12:05:20 PM >> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912 series carb syncing >> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" > >> >> I forgot to add.... >> Use a digital level or a laser to set the pitch of the blades, if they > are >> individually adjustable like the warp drive prop. With the little bubble >> level that comes with the warp drive, they claim only 1/4 degree > accuracy. >> With a digital level you can get 1/10 degree accuracy and with a laser > you >> can probably do that or better, if that's even possible. >> With these 3 things, carb sync, blade indexing and blade pitch, you can > make >> your Rotax 912 feel like flying behind a turbine. >> Cliff >> >> > Another thing that can help keep your engine running smooth is blade >> > alignment. >> > Rotate the blades by hand indexing them against a stationary object. > Make >> > sure the distance from the stationary object is the same when you move >> > each >> > blade past it. Try to get them within 1/8". You can adjust this by > putting >> > very thin shims behind the prop hub. >> > Cliff >> > >> >> >> >> I originally followed some published procedures to manually sync the >> >> carbs >> >> on my 912S by adjusting the throttle cable lengths. After reviewing a >> >> DVD >> >> on 912 installation tips from HomeBuilderHelp.com...I determined that >> >> syncing using a vacuum gage was pretty straightforward. With the > gages >> >> in place, I was surprised how out of sync my carbs were. After I > sycned >> >> them..the engine was noticeably smoother in the 3000 - 5000 > range...and >> >> at >> >> idle. I think the CHT temps dropped a bit too. If you have not done >> >> this >> >> yet, I would highly recommend it. Caution..standing behind the prop >> >> adjusting the throttle cable lengths will mess up your hair. Make >> >> sure >> >> you have someone sitting in the cockpit, and the tail is tied down > well. >> >> >> >> >> >> Gary Walsh >> >> C-GOOT >> >> www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox >> >> >> >> do not archive >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:29:41 PM PST US From: jareds Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 cockpit fumes Doug White , nielsenk@comcast.net, Ray gignac , Ted bryant , Paul Servaty Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds Earlier this year I sent out a few message campaigns regarding tracking down cockpit fumes. While some had suggested holes in firewall and others swirling exhaust outside the cockpit I was certain that there had to be a way to cut down on the source of the fumes. I've built dozens of custom harley's, before it was the thing, and have noticed what they are calling header wraps. This company has them in a rainbow of colors but i opted for the cheap stuff. I coated elbow and inside portion of wrap with hi temp rtv and wrapped the exhaust connections or elbows from spring to spring connector and then re attached the springs. After the first smell of burning rtv after .5 hrs of i have flown several hours with the CO2 detector registering about normal with little discoloration. Before i had to fly with the doors open and detector on firewall would still turn dark blue!! bad bad. I still have some small leaks in the firewall but outside of a totally presurized cabin at least i can fly safely! Hope this helps! Site below for the wraps. www.ozcustoms.com ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:39:38 PM PST US From: "John Anderson" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912 series carb syncing --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" You measure the blade angle at the tip Clifford?? John A. From: "Clifford Begnaud" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912 series carb syncing --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" I've never used a laser, I used a digital level, about $100. But I use it for many other things. You could probably go to any hardware store and find a cheap laser. The trick with either of these is to build a cradle that fits on the prop blade and holds the laser or digital level. I made mine out of wood, and it was just a cradle that had 3 contact points and would slide up the prop blade. It allowed repeatabilty and stopped at the same spot on each blade. The 3 contact points had a small groove that fit the edge of the prop blade. I no longer have that plane or prop and the cradle went with it, so I can't even take a picture of it for you. But I'm sure you can figure out something that will work. Just make sure it allows precision and repeatabilty. Cliff > > >Cliff, >Where can I by one of those lasers? I have never liked the bubble deal on >my Warp Drive. Are they expensive? Thanks, Jeff Puls 912UL > > >>[Original Message] >>From: Clifford Begnaud >>To: >>Date: 8/15/2005 12:05:20 PM >>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912 series carb syncing >> >>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" > >> >>I forgot to add.... >>Use a digital level or a laser to set the pitch of the blades, if they >are >>individually adjustable like the warp drive prop. With the little bubble >>level that comes with the warp drive, they claim only 1/4 degree >accuracy. >>With a digital level you can get 1/10 degree accuracy and with a laser >you >>can probably do that or better, if that's even possible. >>With these 3 things, carb sync, blade indexing and blade pitch, you can >make >>your Rotax 912 feel like flying behind a turbine. >>Cliff >> >> > Another thing that can help keep your engine running smooth is blade >> > alignment. >> > Rotate the blades by hand indexing them against a stationary object. >Make >> > sure the distance from the stationary object is the same when you move >> > each >> > blade past it. Try to get them within 1/8". You can adjust this by >putting >> > very thin shims behind the prop hub. >> > Cliff >> > >> >> >> >> I originally followed some published procedures to manually sync the >> >> carbs >> >> on my 912S by adjusting the throttle cable lengths. After reviewing a >> >> DVD >> >> on 912 installation tips from HomeBuilderHelp.com...I determined that >> >> syncing using a vacuum gage was pretty straightforward. With the >gages >> >> in place, I was surprised how out of sync my carbs were. After I >sycned >> >> them..the engine was noticeably smoother in the 3000 - 5000 >range...and >> >> at >> >> idle. I think the CHT temps dropped a bit too. If you have not done >> >> this >> >> yet, I would highly recommend it. Caution..standing behind the prop >> >> adjusting the throttle cable lengths will mess up your hair. Make >> >> sure >> >> you have someone sitting in the cockpit, and the tail is tied down >well. >> >> >> >> >> >> Gary Walsh >> >> C-GOOT >> >> www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox >> >> >> >> do not archive >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:04:52 PM PST US From: "Clifford Begnaud" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912 series carb syncing --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" John, No, the cradle that I had would slide up the blade about 6-8". I really didn't care what the actual angle was, I was only concerned with getting the blades set so that the engine turned a certain desired static RPM. Then I wanted to get all blades set exactly the same. I have no idea at what angle my blades were set, and couldn't care less. Cliff > > You measure the blade angle at the tip Clifford?? John A. > > > From: "Clifford Begnaud" > To: > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912 series carb syncing > Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 17:13:37 -0600 > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" > > > > I've never used a laser, I used a digital level, about $100. But I use it > for many other things. You could probably go to any hardware store and > find > a cheap laser. The trick with either of these is to build a cradle that > fits > on the prop blade and holds the laser or digital level. I made mine out of > wood, and it was just a cradle that had 3 contact points and would slide > up > the prop blade. It allowed repeatabilty and stopped at the same spot on > each > blade. The 3 contact points had a small groove that fit the edge of the > prop > blade. > I no longer have that plane or prop and the cradle went with it, so I > can't > even take a picture of it for you. But I'm sure you can figure out > something that will work. Just make sure it allows precision and > repeatabilty. > Cliff > >> >> >>Cliff, >>Where can I by one of those lasers? I have never liked the bubble deal on >>my Warp Drive. Are they expensive? Thanks, Jeff Puls 912UL >> >> >>>[Original Message] >>>From: Clifford Begnaud >>>To: >>>Date: 8/15/2005 12:05:20 PM >>>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912 series carb syncing >>> >>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" >> >>> >>>I forgot to add.... >>>Use a digital level or a laser to set the pitch of the blades, if they >>are >>>individually adjustable like the warp drive prop. With the little bubble >>>level that comes with the warp drive, they claim only 1/4 degree >>accuracy. >>>With a digital level you can get 1/10 degree accuracy and with a laser >>you >>>can probably do that or better, if that's even possible. >>>With these 3 things, carb sync, blade indexing and blade pitch, you can >>make >>>your Rotax 912 feel like flying behind a turbine. >>>Cliff >>> >>> > Another thing that can help keep your engine running smooth is blade >>> > alignment. >>> > Rotate the blades by hand indexing them against a stationary object. >>Make >>> > sure the distance from the stationary object is the same when you move >>> > each >>> > blade past it. Try to get them within 1/8". You can adjust this by >>putting >>> > very thin shims behind the prop hub. >>> > Cliff >>> > >>> >> >>> >> I originally followed some published procedures to manually sync the >>> >> carbs >>> >> on my 912S by adjusting the throttle cable lengths. After reviewing >>> >> a >>> >> DVD >>> >> on 912 installation tips from HomeBuilderHelp.com...I determined that >>> >> syncing using a vacuum gage was pretty straightforward. With the >>gages >>> >> in place, I was surprised how out of sync my carbs were. After I >>sycned >>> >> them..the engine was noticeably smoother in the 3000 - 5000 >>range...and >>> >> at >>> >> idle. I think the CHT temps dropped a bit too. If you have not done >>> >> this >>> >> yet, I would highly recommend it. Caution..standing behind the prop >>> >> adjusting the throttle cable lengths will mess up your hair. Make >>> >> sure >>> >> you have someone sitting in the cockpit, and the tail is tied down >>well. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Gary Walsh >>> >> C-GOOT >>> >> www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox >>> >> >>> >> do not archive >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:12:12 PM PST US From: John King Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912S Water Temps and RPM --> Kitfox-List message posted by: John King Gary, Low engine idle below 2200 is nor recommended by Rotax. It is hard on the gearbox long term. -- John King Warrenton, VA kitfoxjunky wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky > >I dropped into a grass strip on the weekend and made a new friend. Fellow >recently completed a RANS Courier. He did a beautiful job on it. We are >both running the Rotax 912S, but he did not have the slipper clutch. We >wanted to see whose engine seemed smoother, so we took each other for a >ride. Something that was drilling into me by the previous owner of my >plane was not to rev the engine beyond 2500 RPM until there was at least >120 deg F on the oil temp gage. This guy basically got in his plane, ran >thru his check list, then took off. I did not even see the water temp >needle come off the stop. He also let the engine idle in the 1500 RPM >range following the runup as he completed his checklist. I never take >mine below 2100 RPM as a general rule. > >Any comments from the Rotax drivers on the list? Is he running the risk >of damaging his engine...or can these motors take that kind of treatment >as a general rule? > > >Gary Walsh >C-GOOT >www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox > >do not archive > > >_ > > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 05:28:28 PM PST US From: "Bill Pleso" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rib Templates - Classic 4 Empennage --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bill Pleso" Colin, I have a set of ribs and stiffeners for the rudder & vert stab that I haven't installed yet, so I could set you up with some templates. There's a little more that goes with the modification. There's a convex and concave piece where the rudder joins the vert stab (they did not do this on the vert stab for some reason and you do end up with a gap). Contact me direct and I'll go into it in more detail. Bill ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:29:14 PM PST US From: Jim Gilliatt Subject: Kitfox-List: Dynon --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Gilliatt Thanks to Bill, Noel, Yoshie and John for the pictures. It is a great help in visualizing what it would look like on the instrument panel. This list surely is a great place to get some help if you need it. Thanks again, Jim Gilliatt ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:00:20 PM PST US From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912 series carb syncing --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" I made my cradle for the laser by first making a rough fit on the blade by cutting the prop profile into a 2X4 on a band saw. Then I put some saran wrap over the blade and some bondo in the profile on the 2X4 and then pressed it on the blade. After the bondo sets, take it off and peel the saran wrap off and it fits the same every time. I did use some fingernail polish to mark the blade the same distance from the hub so it is in the same place each time. I mounted the laser so it points down to the floor. Initially I used a level on the blade to make it perfectly horizontal before I put the laser on it, but I finally realized that if you have a line on the floor parallel to the fuselage, the prop will always be in the same position if the laser mark is anywhere on the line. A little trig will show that an eighth of an inch is equal to an eighth of a degree this way. If you put the prop straight up and down and aim the laser for the hangar wall, precision will go way up. I think the eighth of an inch is adequate. I am sure that I got this from this list at some point in time. Randy - Series 5/7 912S - lovin' it! . -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clifford Begnaud Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912 series carb syncing --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" John, No, the cradle that I had would slide up the blade about 6-8". I really didn't care what the actual angle was, I was only concerned with getting the blades set so that the engine turned a certain desired static RPM. Then I wanted to get all blades set exactly the same. I have no idea at what angle my blades were set, and couldn't care less. Cliff > > You measure the blade angle at the tip Clifford?? John A. > > > From: "Clifford Begnaud" > To: > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912 series carb syncing > Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 17:13:37 -0600 > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" > > > > I've never used a laser, I used a digital level, about $100. But I use it > for many other things. You could probably go to any hardware store and > find > a cheap laser. The trick with either of these is to build a cradle that > fits > on the prop blade and holds the laser or digital level. I made mine out of > wood, and it was just a cradle that had 3 contact points and would slide > up > the prop blade. It allowed repeatabilty and stopped at the same spot on > each > blade. The 3 contact points had a small groove that fit the edge of the > prop > blade. > I no longer have that plane or prop and the cradle went with it, so I > can't > even take a picture of it for you. But I'm sure you can figure out > something that will work. Just make sure it allows precision and > repeatabilty. > Cliff > >> >> >>Cliff, >>Where can I by one of those lasers? I have never liked the bubble deal on >>my Warp Drive. Are they expensive? Thanks, Jeff Puls 912UL >> >> >>>[Original Message] >>>From: Clifford Begnaud >>>To: >>>Date: 8/15/2005 12:05:20 PM >>>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912 series carb syncing >>> >>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" >> >>> >>>I forgot to add.... >>>Use a digital level or a laser to set the pitch of the blades, if they >>are >>>individually adjustable like the warp drive prop. With the little bubble >>>level that comes with the warp drive, they claim only 1/4 degree >>accuracy. >>>With a digital level you can get 1/10 degree accuracy and with a laser >>you >>>can probably do that or better, if that's even possible. >>>With these 3 things, carb sync, blade indexing and blade pitch, you can >>make >>>your Rotax 912 feel like flying behind a turbine. >>>Cliff >>> >>> > Another thing that can help keep your engine running smooth is blade >>> > alignment. >>> > Rotate the blades by hand indexing them against a stationary object. >>Make >>> > sure the distance from the stationary object is the same when you move >>> > each >>> > blade past it. Try to get them within 1/8". You can adjust this by >>putting >>> > very thin shims behind the prop hub. >>> > Cliff >>> > >>> >> >>> >> I originally followed some published procedures to manually sync the >>> >> carbs >>> >> on my 912S by adjusting the throttle cable lengths. After reviewing >>> >> a >>> >> DVD >>> >> on 912 installation tips from HomeBuilderHelp.com...I determined that >>> >> syncing using a vacuum gage was pretty straightforward. With the >>gages >>> >> in place, I was surprised how out of sync my carbs were. After I >>sycned >>> >> them..the engine was noticeably smoother in the 3000 - 5000 >>range...and >>> >> at >>> >> idle. I think the CHT temps dropped a bit too. If you have not done >>> >> this >>> >> yet, I would highly recommend it. Caution..standing behind the prop >>> >> adjusting the throttle cable lengths will mess up your hair. Make >>> >> sure >>> >> you have someone sitting in the cockpit, and the tail is tied down >>well. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Gary Walsh >>> >> C-GOOT >>> >> www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox >>> >> >>> >> do not archive >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:34:26 PM PST US From: James Shumaker Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: sight gauges --> Kitfox-List message posted by: James Shumaker Michel I found that those little white diode flashlights that are about the size of a quarter (US $.25) work very well. I keep a green one and a white one velcroed to my dash. They last like forever and cost all of about $2. Jim Shumaker Michel Verheughe wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Rick wrote: > Great idea for the fuel tube. I will be putting in a couple of spray tubes > this coming annual. Yep! Great idea, John! ... only that I don't understand it. Please could someone explain it in layman's terms and ... to an aging foreigner? :-) I also have problems reading my fuel, especially when in the dark hangar, on a winter day. That's when they are usually half full. Once in the air, they become half empty! :-) Thanks in advance, Michel do not archive