Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:58 AM - Re: Re Landing gear bungy cords. (John Perry)
2. 05:06 AM - Bungee Cords (Dee Young)
3. 06:20 AM - SV: Bungee Cords (Michel Verheughe)
4. 06:24 AM - SV: SV: SV: Re: sight gauges (Michel Verheughe)
5. 06:36 AM - Re: Mike do you have a 912 (Lowell Fitt)
6. 07:04 AM - Altitude vs Speed (jareds)
7. 07:08 AM - wing tank fibers / fule filters (jareds)
8. 08:00 AM - Re: SV: Bungee Cords (Marco Menezes)
9. 08:12 AM - fuel flow (Marco Menezes)
10. 08:24 AM - replace once a yearRe: SV: Bungee Cords (owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com)
11. 08:24 AM - KF IV Classic - Operation Cleanup (kitfoxjunky)
12. 08:25 AM - Re: Rib Stitching (John Larsen)
13. 08:46 AM - Re: Rib Stitching (Todd Lesh)
14. 08:53 AM - Re: Altitude vs Speed (Guy Buchanan)
15. 08:54 AM - Re: KF IV Classic - Operation Cleanup (jdmcbean)
16. 09:09 AM - Re: Rib Stitching (ron schick)
17. 09:17 AM - Re: Mike do you have a 912 (Michael Gibbs)
18. 09:34 AM - Re: KF IV Classic - Operation Cleanup (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
19. 10:12 AM - Re: KF IV Classic - Operation Cleanup (kitfoxjunky)
20. 10:55 AM - Re: Mike do you have a 912 (jdmcbean)
21. 11:34 AM - Re: KF IV Classic - Operation Cleanup (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
22. 11:58 AM - Re: KF IV Classic - Operation Cleanup (kitfoxjunky)
23. 12:01 PM - Looking for college/high school/youth aviation club (jdmcbean)
24. 12:01 PM - Eurofox (Jose M. Toro)
25. 01:01 PM - Re: Eurofox (David Creemer)
26. 01:29 PM - Re: Eurofox - My apologies (Jose M. Toro)
27. 01:38 PM - Re: fuel flow (Michel Verheughe)
28. 01:48 PM - Re: SV: Bungee Cords (Michel Verheughe)
29. 02:13 PM - Re: SV: Bungee Cords (Marco Menezes)
30. 02:15 PM - Re: fuel flow (Lowell Fitt)
31. 02:19 PM - Re: SV: Bungee Cords (flier)
32. 02:24 PM - Re: KF IV Classic - Operation Cleanup (Lowell Fitt)
33. 02:40 PM - Re: SV: Bungee Cords (John Perry)
34. 03:38 PM - Re: Rib Stitching (Chenoweth)
35. 03:55 PM - Re: Rib Stitching (jdmcbean)
36. 04:12 PM - Re: SV: Bungee Cords (David Savener)
37. 04:22 PM - Changing Bungee Cords (Dee Young)
38. 05:05 PM - Re: Altitude vs Speed (Brian Peck)
39. 05:22 PM - Re: Rib Stitching (Don Smythe)
40. 06:14 PM - Tail Wheel to Tricycle on IV 1200 (jhpmaryland@comcast.net)
41. 06:17 PM - Re: SV: Bungee Cords (Jerry Liles)
42. 09:06 PM - Re: Rib Stitching (clemwehner)
43. 09:28 PM - Re: SV: SV: SV: Re: sight gauges (James Shumaker)
44. 10:05 PM - Re: Rib Stitching (Bruce Harrington)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Re Landing gear bungy cords. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Perry" <eskflyer@pld.com>
YEAH CALL SKYSTAR AND ORDER A NEW SET
John Perry
-------Original Message-------
From: ROBERT E SIMON
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re Landing gear bungy cords.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: ROBERT E SIMON <bigbob196@juno.com>
Hi folks,
I think that it is time to replace the landing gear cords on my model IV.
Please advise.
Bob Simon
Message 2
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
Bungee cords made up from the factory with the pressed fittings is the simplest
way to go. They can also be tied using aviation wire or rib stitching cord. They
are much easier to install than with the pressed fittings. If a person wants
to read some good discussion on this matter you might do a search in the archives.
There has been a lot of discussion over the years on bungees.
Dee Young
Model II
N345DY
Do not archive
Only problem is you cannot get the right crimps for the ends unless you
spend several thousand for a big hydraulic nicopress. SKYSTAR Will make them
up from new rubber and send them right out .
John Perry
Message 3
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
> From: Dee Young [henrysfork1@msn.com]
> There has been a lot of discussion over the years on bungees.
Indeed, it has, Dee. And while on the subject (I am not the original poster) I'd
like to ask something I think hasn't been answered those last two years I have
been on the list: When do you change them?
I don't know when the previous owners of my Kitfox changed them. Mine are at least
two years old and, at inspection, they look pretty good. But when should I
change them? Is it a matter of years or a matter of flying hours, or a matter
of how many langings I've had?
Thanks in advance,
Michel
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: sight gauges |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
> From: James Shumaker [jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net]
> The only reason "WD40" is mentioned is that everyone in america instantly
> recognizes the name and the straw. Any spray can straw could be used.
Thank you, Jim. WD40 is also pretty well known, in Norway, although we have other
makes of "toolbox in a can" as they advertise. Incidentally, those "straws"
are the first thing I loose when I buy a new can! :-)
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Mike do you have a 912 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Lots of guys have made them up themselves using such end fasteners as safety
wire over tape or fire sleeve clamps. Much smaller than the huge pressed
fittings that SS uses and much easier to fit through the access holes in the
fuselage.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Perry" <eskflyer@pld.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Mike do you have a 912
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Perry" <eskflyer@pld.com>
>
> Only problem is you cannot get the right crimps for the ends unless you
> spend several thousand for a big hydraulic nicopress. SKYSTAR Will make
> them
> up from new rubber and send them right out .
> John Perry
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: Dee Young
> Date: 08/17/05 19:04:41
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Mike do you have a 912
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
>
> You can order them made up from SS. Not sure but some of the folks on list
> may also sell them made up. You can also order the stock from ACS and make
> them up yourself. Not real difficult to do.
>
> Dee Young
> Model II
> N345DY
>
> Do not archive
>
>
> > Is there any body that can make bungy cords for a Kit Fox 1
> > Randy
> >
> >
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Altitude vs Speed |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds <jareds@verizon.net>
When flying high performance planes the POH always listed an optimal
altitude and winds aside you would typically fly faster if you had the
time to crawl up to higher altitudes because the air was thinner.
With a fox i'm really enjoying flying on the deck but as i take more
trips is it worth it with a substantial amount of speed increase to
climb up to higher altitudes? 5mph on a 200 mile trip makes a big
difference!!
Any comments or is the fox just too un -earodynamic to make much difference.
Message 7
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| Subject: | wing tank fibers / fule filters |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds <jareds@verizon.net>
I've seen on the list where people have mentioned wing tanks
disintigrating and small unseen fibers beginning to plug up fuel
filters. Especially the clear ones you can get from spruce. While you
can see fuel flowing which is good ... the filiments aren't very
condusive to these fibers. I know ethynol can cause this but have any
of you seen instances where this has happened and is there a gel for
your tanks or conditioner to use?
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Bungee Cords |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
Hi Michel. I don't think it's just about number of landings. They just stretch
out with time. When I got my model 2 it had never flown but had sat on the original
bungees (with only 4 wraps) for a number of years. I gave them 2 more wraps.
Sometime later, I noticed the airplane was sitting crooked. The right bungee
had stretched so that the gear leg was no longer tight against the shock pad
on the fuselage. So I ordered some bungee material from Aircraft Spruce and
made my own new ones, 56" from loop to loop. Tied them with many turns of safety
wire. That 6th and last wrap was a bugger! So far, they work great. Makes
sense to change them every couple of years at least, I think.
Marco Menezes
Model 2 582 N99KX
Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe
> From: Dee Young [henrysfork1@msn.com]
> There has been a lot of discussion over the years on bungees.
Indeed, it has, Dee. And while on the subject (I am not the original poster) I'd
like to ask something I think hasn't been answered those last two years I have
been on the list: When do you change them?
I don't know when the previous owners of my Kitfox changed them. Mine are at least
two years old and, at inspection, they look pretty good. But when should I
change them? Is it a matter of years or a matter of flying hours, or a matter
of how many langings I've had?
Thanks in advance,
Michel
---------------------------------
Message 9
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
I flew N99KX yesterday for the second time, logging 1.6 hrs. Performance was generally
excellent although I'm still experiencing somewhat elevated EGT's (~1250)
and water temps (180) at high power settings, particularly on climb. But
that's not my issue today.
I noticed that the left wing tank empties much faster that the right. After the
flight, the left tank had half the fuel of the right, though i'd put 5 gal in
each. With an open system, shouldn't the tanks drain equally? I know the right
isn't plugged because I can quickly drain the entire system from a quick drain
I installed in the feed line from header tank to engine. Is this a problem?
I'd hate to find that it is at 1000 feet agl with the left tank completely dry.
Marco Menezes
Model 2 582 N99KX
---------------------------------
Message 10
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by:
Subject: replace once a yearRE: SV: Kitfox-List: Bungee Cords
You should replace them once a year. I ordered mine from SkyStar and I
received them the same week. The best thing is they are inexpensive.
Robert
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marco Menezes
Subject: Re: SV: Kitfox-List: Bungee Cords
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
Hi Michel. I don't think it's just about number of landings. They just
stretch out with time. When I got my model 2 it had never flown but had sat
on the original bungees (with only 4 wraps) for a number of years. I gave
them 2 more wraps. Sometime later, I noticed the airplane was sitting
crooked. The right bungee had stretched so that the gear leg was no longer
tight against the shock pad on the fuselage. So I ordered some bungee
material from Aircraft Spruce and made my own new ones, 56" from loop to
loop. Tied them with many turns of safety wire. That 6th and last wrap was a
bugger! So far, they work great. Makes sense to change them every couple of
years at least, I think.
Marco Menezes
Model 2 582 N99KX
Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe
> From: Dee Young [henrysfork1@msn.com]
> There has been a lot of discussion over the years on bungees.
Indeed, it has, Dee. And while on the subject (I am not the original poster)
I'd like to ask something I think hasn't been answered those last two years
I have been on the list: When do you change them?
I don't know when the previous owners of my Kitfox changed them. Mine are at
least two years old and, at inspection, they look pretty good. But when
should I change them? Is it a matter of years or a matter of flying hours,
or a matter of how many langings I've had?
Thanks in advance,
Michel
---------------------------------
Message 11
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| Subject: | KF IV Classic - Operation Cleanup |
Serialize complete at 08/18/2005 11:23:57 AM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky <kitfoxjunky@decisionlabs.com>
Having a blast flying my KF IV on wheels. My buddy has a RANS
Coyotte...same engine...but he cruises about 15 mph faster than I do. He
wants to go to Oshkosh together next year but I am not so sure I want to
sit in his slip stream for 10 hrs. I have the standard round wing struts,
tube style gear, no wheel pants, no fairings even on the leading edge of
the wing root. Also no gap seals between the upper surface of the hor
stab and vert stab or the elevator and rudder controls. Droop wing tips
too. Any one want to hazard a guess on what kind of cruise gain I could
get if I did the mods to all these over time? I cruise about 90-100 mph
now, depending on how I pitch the IVO prop with the 912S.
Gary Walsh
C-GOOT
www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
do not archive
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Rib Stitching |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: John Larsen <jopatco@mindspring.com>
Hi Bud
Dean Wilson checked with the FAA years ago and they verified that wing
ribs with one inch cap strips such as your wings, do not need rib
stitching. Having the fabric shrunk onto the wings, locks the wing
structure together. Those who like to wear a belt and suspenders too,
will rib stitch their wings and this is a good thing. I once checked the
NTSB reports from 1983 to 1998 and could not find one instance of loose
fabric causing any sort of accident on an Kitfox, Avid or any plane
using one inch cap strips.
Your plane should be safe for its stated gross weight regardless of the
engine.
Thank Gayle for the picture of her and Harrison Ford, and the
accompanying article.
Cheers
Gayle & Bud wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gayle & Bud" <bud@idcnet.com>
>
>I am building a Kitfox IV. Eons ago when I covered the wings, I did not rib
>stitch, instead just glued fabric to ribs. Now with a larger engine
>(Subaru), I'm concerned about the fabric coming loose and ballooning. Since
>the wings are painted with Aerothane, it will probably mean stripping the
>fabric off and starting over. Any opinions?
>
>Thanks
>
>Bud Popken
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Rib Stitching |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Todd Lesh" <theleshfamily@gbronline.com>
Here is an Avid that went down with material pulling away from capstrips.I
went ahead and learned the art of ribstiching.
CHI05CA025
On November 6, 2004, at 1145 central standard time, a homebuilt Jabat, Inc.,
Avid Flyer, N90JW, collided with trees while making an off airport forced
landing in Cleveland, Missouri. The pilot was not injured. The airplane was
substantially damaged. The 14 CFR Part 91 personal flight was operating in
visual meteorological conditions without a flight plan. The flight
originated from a private airstrip in Cleveland, Missouri, at 1105.
The pilot reported that a malfunction occurred on the right wing while he
was flying at 1,000 feet above mean sea level. He stated the airplane
entered a right descending spiral. The airplane descended into a field about
2 miles away from his departure airstrip. The pilot stated the airplane
contacted the ground then slid into trees, damaging the right wing.
A post accident examination of the airplane was conducted by an inspector
from the Federal Aviation Administration Flight Standards District Office in
Kansas City, Missouri. The inspector reported that it appeared as if the
fabric on the right wing had separated from the ribs. No other
failures/malfunctions with the wing were noted.
The pilot reported the fabric is glued to 1-inch rib caps in the wings. He
also reported that it appeared as if the fabric had pulled away from the
caps.
The airplane was constructed in 1985 and it had been flown about 300 hours
prior to the accident. The pilot reported the last annual inspection of the
airplane was in April, 2004, and the airplane had been flown 4 hours since
that inspection.
Use your browsers 'back' function to return to synopsis
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Altitude vs Speed |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 07:09 AM 8/18/2005, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds <jareds@verizon.net>
>
>When flying high performance planes the POH always listed an optimal
>altitude and winds aside you would typically fly faster if you had the
>time to crawl up to higher altitudes because the air was thinner.
>
>With a fox i'm really enjoying flying on the deck but as i take more
>trips is it worth it with a substantial amount of speed increase to
>climb up to higher altitudes? 5mph on a 200 mile trip makes a big
>difference!!
Well, If you can get to 12,500' on a standard day your TAS is about 20%
faster than your CAS, no matter what you're flying. The question is, what
kind of power will you have at that altitude? The naturally aspirated
Bonanza I fly is fastest flying at about 7500', where the density altitude
correction is only about 11%. You'll have to get some performance versus
altitude data for the powerplant you're using to know whether it's worth
it. Does anyone have data for a 582 with mixture control?
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | KF IV Classic - Operation Cleanup |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Gary,
Faired lift struts will give you a conservative 10 mph...
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kitfoxjunky
Subject: Kitfox-List: KF IV Classic - Operation Cleanup
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky
<kitfoxjunky@decisionlabs.com>
Having a blast flying my KF IV on wheels. My buddy has a RANS
Coyotte...same engine...but he cruises about 15 mph faster than I do. He
wants to go to Oshkosh together next year but I am not so sure I want to
sit in his slip stream for 10 hrs. I have the standard round wing struts,
tube style gear, no wheel pants, no fairings even on the leading edge of
the wing root. Also no gap seals between the upper surface of the hor
stab and vert stab or the elevator and rudder controls. Droop wing tips
too. Any one want to hazard a guess on what kind of cruise gain I could
get if I did the mods to all these over time? I cruise about 90-100 mph
now, depending on how I pitch the IVO prop with the 912S.
Gary Walsh
C-GOOT
www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
do not archive
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Rib Stitching |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" <roncarolnikko@hotmail.com>
The undercambered wings of the stol prefer to not be attached to the bottom
of my Avid, as I found out while doing a repair. My Kitfox Speedster wings
curve outward on top and bottom, and therefore stretch tight to the ribs. I
plan on covering with heavy fabric and ribstitching. Hope I can get all that
fabric off the ground! Ron Nb Ore.
>From: "Todd Lesh" <theleshfamily@gbronline.com>
>Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rib Stitching
>Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 11:45:49 -0400
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Todd Lesh"
><theleshfamily@gbronline.com>
>
>Here is an Avid that went down with material pulling away from capstrips.I
>went ahead and learned the art of ribstiching.
>CHI05CA025
>On November 6, 2004, at 1145 central standard time, a homebuilt Jabat,
>Inc.,
>Avid Flyer, N90JW, collided with trees while making an off airport forced
>landing in Cleveland, Missouri. The pilot was not injured. The airplane was
>substantially damaged. The 14 CFR Part 91 personal flight was operating in
>visual meteorological conditions without a flight plan. The flight
>originated from a private airstrip in Cleveland, Missouri, at 1105.
>
>The pilot reported that a malfunction occurred on the right wing while he
>was flying at 1,000 feet above mean sea level. He stated the airplane
>entered a right descending spiral. The airplane descended into a field
>about
>2 miles away from his departure airstrip. The pilot stated the airplane
>contacted the ground then slid into trees, damaging the right wing.
>
>A post accident examination of the airplane was conducted by an inspector
>from the Federal Aviation Administration Flight Standards District Office
>in
>Kansas City, Missouri. The inspector reported that it appeared as if the
>fabric on the right wing had separated from the ribs. No other
>failures/malfunctions with the wing were noted.
>The pilot reported the fabric is glued to 1-inch rib caps in the wings. He
>also reported that it appeared as if the fabric had pulled away from the
>caps.
>
>The airplane was constructed in 1985 and it had been flown about 300 hours
>prior to the accident. The pilot reported the last annual inspection of the
>airplane was in April, 2004, and the airplane had been flown 4 hours since
>that inspection.
>
>
>Use your browsers 'back' function to return to synopsis
>
>
http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Mike do you have a 912 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
Gary asks:
>Does the slipper clutch help on start up and shut down. And what is
>the prop length on the IVO.
I believe that the slipper clutch is mainly useful at very low RPM
like starting up and shutting down. At in-flight power settings it
is essentially "locked up". We did discover another case where it
helps--in the event of a prop strike or accident, it can potentially
prevent some engine damage.
As for the prop length I really can't remember. It was a stock Ivo
medium, I'm sure John McBean could answer that question. John?
Mike G.
N728KF
Message 18
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| Subject: | KF IV Classic - Operation Cleanup |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
Gary, I experienced additional airspeed, with the the faired joystruts and horizontal
struts. You should pick up significant help by fairing the empenage intersections
and gap seal. These are all draggy areas.
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean"
>
> Gary,
> Faired lift struts will give you a conservative 10 mph...
>
> Fly Safe !!
> John & Debra McBean
> www.sportplanellc.com
> "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kitfoxjunky
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: KF IV Classic - Operation Cleanup
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky
>
>
> Having a blast flying my KF IV on wheels. My buddy has a RANS
> Coyotte...same engine...but he cruises about 15 mph faster than I do. He
> wants to go to Oshkosh together next year but I am not so sure I want to
> sit in his slip stream for 10 hrs. I have the standard round wing struts,
> tube style gear, no wheel pants, no fairings even on the leading edge of
> the wing root. Also no gap seals between the upper surface of the hor
> stab and vert stab or the elevator and rudder controls. Droop wing tips
> too. Any one want to hazard a guess on what kind of cruise gain I could
> get if I did the mods to all these over time? I cruise about 90-100 mph
> now, depending on how I pitch the IVO prop with the 912S.
>
>
> Gary Walsh
> C-GOOT
> www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
Gary, I experienced additional airspeed, with the the faired joystruts and horizontal
struts. You should pick up significant help by fairing the empenage intersections
and gap seal. These are all draggy areas.
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <JDMCBEAN@CABLEONE.NET>
Gary,
Faired lift struts will give you a conservative 10 mph...
Fly Safe !!
John Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kitfoxjunky
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: KF IV Classic - Operation Cleanup
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky
<KITFOXJUNKY@DECISIONLABS.COM>
Having a blast flying my KF IV on wheels. My buddy has a RANS
Coyotte...same engine...but he cruises about 15
mph faster than I do. He
wants to go to Oshkosh together next year but I am not so sure I want to
sit in his slip stream for 10 hrs. I have the standard round wing struts,
tube style gear, no wheel pants, no fairings even on the leading edge of
the wing root. Also no gap seals between the upper surface of the hor
stab and vert stab or the elevator and rudder controls. Droop wing tips
too. Any one want to hazard a guess on what kind of cruise gain I could
get if I did the mods to all these over time? I cruise about 90-100 mph
now, depending on how I pitch the IVO prop with the 912S.
Gary Walsh
C-GOOT
www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
do not archive
Message 19
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| Subject: | KF IV Classic - Operation Cleanup |
Serialize complete at 08/18/2005 01:10:44 PM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky <kitfoxjunky@decisionlabs.com>
Care to quantify that John with a number. You think it could be as high as
10 MPH..as John McBean suggests?
Gary Walsh
C-GOOT
www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
do not archive
kerrjohna@comcast.net
Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
08/18/2005 12:14 PM
Please respond to kitfox-list
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
cc:
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: KF IV Classic - Operation Cleanup
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
Gary, I experienced additional airspeed, with the the faired joystruts and
horizontal struts. You should pick up significant help by fairing the
empenage intersections and gap seal. These are all draggy areas.
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean"
>
> Gary,
> Faired lift struts will give you a conservative 10 mph...
>
> Fly Safe !!
> John & Debra McBean
> www.sportplanellc.com
> "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kitfoxjunky
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: KF IV Classic - Operation Cleanup
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky
>
>
> Having a blast flying my KF IV on wheels. My buddy has a RANS
> Coyotte...same engine...but he cruises about 15 mph faster than I do. He
> wants to go to Oshkosh together next year but I am not so sure I want to
> sit in his slip stream for 10 hrs. I have the standard round wing
struts,
> tube style gear, no wheel pants, no fairings even on the leading edge of
> the wing root. Also no gap seals between the upper surface of the hor
> stab and vert stab or the elevator and rudder controls. Droop wing tips
> too. Any one want to hazard a guess on what kind of cruise gain I could
> get if I did the mods to all these over time? I cruise about 90-100 mph
> now, depending on how I pitch the IVO prop with the 912S.
>
>
> Gary Walsh
> C-GOOT
> www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
Gary, I experienced additional airspeed, with the the faired joystruts and
horizontal struts. You should pick up significant help by fairing the
empenage intersections and gap seal. These are all draggy areas.
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <JDMCBEAN@CABLEONE.NET>
Gary,
Faired lift struts will give you a conservative 10 mph...
Fly Safe !!
John Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kitfoxjunky
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: KF IV Classic - Operation Cleanup
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky
<KITFOXJUNKY@DECISIONLABS.COM>
Having a blast flying my KF IV on wheels. My buddy has a RANS
Coyotte...same engine...but he cruises about 15
mph faster than I do. He
wants to go to Oshkosh together next year but I am not so sure I want to
sit in his slip stream for 10 hrs. I have the standard round wing struts,
tube style gear, no wheel pants, no fairings even on the leading edge of
the wing root. Also no gap seals between the upper surface of the hor
stab and vert stab or the elevator and rudder controls. Droop wing tips
too. Any one want to hazard a guess on what kind of cruise gain I could
get if I did the mods to all these over time? I cruise about 90-100 mph
now, depending on how I pitch the IVO prop with the 912S.
Gary Walsh
C-GOOT
www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
do not archive
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Mike do you have a 912 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
For the 912S .. would be a 70"
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michael Gibbs
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Mike do you have a 912
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
Gary asks:
>Does the slipper clutch help on start up and shut down. And what is
>the prop length on the IVO.
I believe that the slipper clutch is mainly useful at very low RPM
like starting up and shutting down. At in-flight power settings it
is essentially "locked up". We did discover another case where it
helps--in the event of a prop strike or accident, it can potentially
prevent some engine damage.
As for the prop length I really can't remember. It was a stock Ivo
medium, I'm sure John McBean could answer that question. John?
Mike G.
N728KF
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | KF IV Classic - Operation Cleanup |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
There are so many varyables. I have lift strut fairings(John's 10 mph estimate)
joy strut fairings(Blue Sky), lift strut/wing fairings(From Blue Sky), and Horizontal/vertical
fairing, and horizontal strut fairings(Blue Sky). Gap seal
(Clear contact paper). Compared to having none of these, I would hazard a guess
of closer to 20mph. My flying buddy has lift strut fairings only and I have
to idle down 4-600 rpm to stay with him. My 912 powered Model IV Classic cruises
at 7500' at 5200 rpm at about 107mph. I flight plan at 90 knots.
The guys with wheel pants are getting another 5mph +
Barnaby Wainfain hastens to suggest the order in which speed mods are added affects
the incrimental increase. The gains are not absolute and addative. As speed
increases, so does drag in other areas.
John
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky
>
> Care to quantify that John with a number. You think it could be as high as
> 10 MPH..as John McBean suggests?
>
> Gary Walsh
> C-GOOT
> www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
>
> do not archive
>
>
> kerrjohna@comcast.net
> Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> 08/18/2005 12:14 PM
> Please respond to kitfox-list
>
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> cc:
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: KF IV Classic - Operation Cleanup
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
>
> Gary, I experienced additional airspeed, with the the faired joystruts and
> horizontal struts. You should pick up significant help by fairing the
> empenage intersections and gap seal. These are all draggy areas.
>
> John Kerr
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean"
> >
> > Gary,
> > Faired lift struts will give you a conservative 10 mph...
> >
> > Fly Safe !!
> > John & Debra McBean
> > www.sportplanellc.com
> > "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kitfoxjunky
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Kitfox-List: KF IV Classic - Operation Cleanup
> >
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky
> >
> >
> > Having a blast flying my KF IV on wheels. My buddy has a RANS
> > Coyotte...same engine...but he cruises about 15 mph faster than I do. He
>
> > wants to go to Oshkosh together next year but I am not so sure I want to
>
> > sit in his slip stream for 10 hrs. I have the standard round wing
> struts,
> > tube style gear, no wheel pants, no fairings even on the leading edge of
>
> > the wing root. Also no gap seals between the upper surface of the hor
> > stab and vert stab or the elevator and rudder controls. Droop wing tips
> > too. Any one want to hazard a guess on what kind of cruise gain I could
> > get if I did the mods to all these over time? I cruise about 90-100 mph
> > now, depending on how I pitch the IVO prop with the 912S.
> >
> >
> > Gary Walsh
> > C-GOOT
> > www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
> >
> > do not archive
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Gary, I experienced additional airspeed, with the the faired joystruts and
> horizontal struts. You should pick up significant help by fairing the
> empenage intersections and gap seal. These are all draggy areas.
>
> John Kerr
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
> -- Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean"
>
> Gary,
> Faired lift struts will give you a conservative 10 mph...
>
> Fly Safe !!
> John Debra McBean
> www.sportplanellc.com
> "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kitfoxjunky
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: KF IV Classic - Operation Cleanup
>
> -- Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky
>
>
> Having a blast flying my KF IV on wheels. My buddy has a RANS
> Coyotte...same engine...but he cruises about 15
> mph faster than I do. He
> wants to go to Oshkosh together next year but I am not so sure I want to
> sit in his slip stream for 10 hrs. I have the standard round wing struts,
>
> tube style gear, no wheel pants, no fairings even on the leading edge of
> the wing root. Also no gap seals between the upper surface of the hor
> stab and vert stab or the elevator and rudder controls. Droop wing tips
> too. Any one want to hazard a guess on what kind of cruise gain I could
> get if I did the mods to all these over time? I cruise about 90-100 mph
> now, depending on how I pitch the IVO prop with the 912S.
>
>
> Gary Walsh
> C-GOOT
> www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
There are so many varyables. I have lift strut fairings(John's 10 mph estimate)
joy strut fairings(Blue Sky), lift strut/wing fairings(From Blue Sky), and Horizontal/vertical
fairing, and horizontal strut fairings(Blue Sky). Gap seal (Clear
contact paper). Compared to having none of these, I would hazard a guess
of closer to 20mph. My flying buddy has lift strut fairings only and I have to
idle down 4-600 rpm to stay with him. My 912 powered Model IV Classic cruises
at 7500' at 5200 rpm at about 107mph. I flight plan at 90 knots.
The guys with wheel pants are getting another 5mph +
Barnaby Wainfain hastens to suggest the order in which speed mods are added affects
the incrimental increase. The gains are not absolute and addative. As speed
increases, so does drag in other areas.
John
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky <KITFOXJUNKY@DECISIONLABS.COM>
Care to quantify that John with a number. You think it could be as high as
10 MPH..as John McBean suggests?
Gary Walsh
C-GOOT
www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
do not archive
kerrjohna@comcast.net
Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
08/18/2005 12:14 PM
Please respond to kitfox-list
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
cc:
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: KF IV Classic - Operation Cleanup
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
Gary, I experienced additional airspeed, with the the faired joystruts and
horizontal struts.
You should pick up significant help by fairing the
empenage intersections and gap seal. These are all draggy areas.
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean"
Gary,
Faired lift struts will give you a conservative 10 mph...
Fly Safe !!
John Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kitfoxjunky
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: KF IV Classic - Operation Cleanup
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky
&g
t;
Having a blast flying my KF IV on wheels. My buddy has a RANS
Coyotte...same engine...but he cruises about 15 mph faster than I do. He
wants to go to Oshkosh together next year but I am not so sure I want to
sit in his slip stream for 10 hrs. I have the standard round wing
struts,
tube style gear, no wheel pants, no fairings even on the leading edge of
the wing root. Also no gap seals between the upper surface of the hor
stab and vert stab or the elevator and rudder controls. Droop wing tips
too. Any one want to hazard a guess on what kind of cruise gain I could
get if I did the mods to all these over time? I cruise about 90-100 mph
now, depending on how I pitch the IVO prop with the 912S.
Gary Walsh
C-GOOT
www.decisionlabs.com/ki
tfox
do not archive
Gary, I experienced additional airspeed, with the the faired joystruts and
horizontal struts. You should pick up significant help by fairing the
empenage intersections and gap seal. These are all draggy areas.
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <JDMCBEAN@CABLEONE.NET>
Gary,
Faired lift struts will give you a conservative 10 mph...
Fly Safe !!
John Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kitfoxjunky
To: kit
fox-list@matronics.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: KF IV Classic - Operation Cleanup
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky
<KITFOXJUNKY@DECISIONLABS.COM>
Having a blast flying my KF IV on wheels. My buddy has a RANS
Coyotte...same engine...but he cruises about 15
mph faster than I do. He
wants to go to Oshkosh together next year but I am not so sure I want to
sit in his slip stream for 10 hrs. I have the standard round wing struts,
tube style gear, no wheel pants, no fairings even on the leading edge of
the wing root. Also no gap seals between the upper surface of the hor
stab and vert stab or the elevator and rudder controls. Droop wing tips
too. Any one want to hazard a guess on what kind of cruise gain I could
get if I did the mods to all these over time? I cruise about 90-100 mph
now, depending on how I pitch the IVO pr
op with the 912S.
Gary Walsh
C-GOOT
www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
do not archive
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | KF IV Classic - Operation Cleanup |
Serialize complete at 08/18/2005 02:56:18 PM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky <kitfoxjunky@decisionlabs.com>
Thanks for the feedback. Will start doing the mods...one area at a time,
and report back the improvements.
Gary Walsh
C-GOOT
www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
do not archive
kerrjohna@comcast.net
Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
08/18/2005 02:33 PM
Please respond to kitfox-list
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
cc:
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: KF IV Classic - Operation Cleanup
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
There are so many varyables. I have lift strut fairings(John's 10 mph
estimate) joy strut fairings(Blue Sky), lift strut/wing fairings(From Blue
Sky), and Horizontal/vertical fairing, and horizontal strut fairings(Blue
Sky). Gap seal (Clear contact paper). Compared to having none of these, I
would hazard a guess of closer to 20mph. My flying buddy has lift strut
fairings only and I have to idle down 4-600 rpm to stay with him. My 912
powered Model IV Classic cruises at 7500' at 5200 rpm at about 107mph. I
flight plan at 90 knots.
The guys with wheel pants are getting another 5mph +
Barnaby Wainfain hastens to suggest the order in which speed mods are
added affects the incrimental increase. The gains are not absolute and
addative. As speed increases, so does drag in other areas.
John
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky
>
> Care to quantify that John with a number. You think it could be as high
as
> 10 MPH..as John McBean suggests?
>
> Gary Walsh
> C-GOOT
> www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
>
> do not archive
>
>
> kerrjohna@comcast.net
> Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> 08/18/2005 12:14 PM
> Please respond to kitfox-list
>
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> cc:
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: KF IV Classic - Operation Cleanup
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
>
> Gary, I experienced additional airspeed, with the the faired joystruts
and
> horizontal struts. You should pick up significant help by fairing the
> empenage intersections and gap seal. These are all draggy areas.
>
> John Kerr
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean"
> >
> > Gary,
> > Faired lift struts will give you a conservative 10 mph...
> >
> > Fly Safe !!
> > John & Debra McBean
> > www.sportplanellc.com
> > "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
kitfoxjunky
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Kitfox-List: KF IV Classic - Operation Cleanup
> >
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky
> >
> >
> > Having a blast flying my KF IV on wheels. My buddy has a RANS
> > Coyotte...same engine...but he cruises about 15 mph faster than I do.
He
>
> > wants to go to Oshkosh together next year but I am not so sure I want
to
>
> > sit in his slip stream for 10 hrs. I have the standard round wing
> struts,
> > tube style gear, no wheel pants, no fairings even on the leading edge
of
>
> > the wing root. Also no gap seals between the upper surface of the hor
> > stab and vert stab or the elevator and rudder controls. Droop wing
tips
> > too. Any one want to hazard a guess on what kind of cruise gain I
could
> > get if I did the mods to all these over time? I cruise about 90-100
mph
> > now, depending on how I pitch the IVO prop with the 912S.
> >
> >
> > Gary Walsh
> > C-GOOT
> > www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
> >
> > do not archive
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Gary, I experienced additional airspeed, with the the faired joystruts
and
> horizontal struts. You should pick up significant help by fairing the
> empenage intersections and gap seal. These are all draggy areas.
>
> John Kerr
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
> -- Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean"
>
> Gary,
> Faired lift struts will give you a conservative 10 mph...
>
> Fly Safe !!
> John Debra McBean
> www.sportplanellc.com
> "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kitfoxjunky
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: KF IV Classic - Operation Cleanup
>
> -- Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky
>
>
> Having a blast flying my KF IV on wheels. My buddy has a RANS
> Coyotte...same engine...but he cruises about 15
> mph faster than I do. He
> wants to go to Oshkosh together next year but I am not so sure I want to
> sit in his slip stream for 10 hrs. I have the standard round wing
struts,
>
> tube style gear, no wheel pants, no fairings even on the leading edge of
> the wing root. Also no gap seals between the upper surface of the hor
> stab and vert stab or the elevator and rudder controls. Droop wing tips
> too. Any one want to hazard a guess on what kind of cruise gain I could
> get if I did the mods to all these over time? I cruise about 90-100 mph
> now, depending on how I pitch the IVO prop with the 912S.
>
>
> Gary Walsh
> C-GOOT
> www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
There are so many varyables. I have lift strut fairings(John's 10 mph
estimate) joy strut fairings(Blue Sky), lift strut/wing fairings(From Blue
Sky), and Horizontal/vertical fairing, and horizontal strut fairings(Blue
Sky). Gap seal (Clear contact paper). Compared to having none of these, I
would hazard a guess of closer to 20mph. My flying buddy has lift strut
fairings only and I have to idle down 4-600 rpm to stay with him. My 912
powered Model IV Classic cruises at 7500' at 5200 rpm at about 107mph. I
flight plan at 90 knots.
The guys with wheel pants are getting another 5mph +
Barnaby Wainfain hastens to suggest the order in which speed mods are
added affects the incrimental increase. The gains are not absolute and
addative. As speed increases, so does drag in other areas.
John
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky
<KITFOXJUNKY@DECISIONLABS.COM>
Care to quantify that John with a number. You think it could be as high
as
10 MPH..as John McBean suggests?
Gary Walsh
C-GOOT
www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
do not archive
kerrjohna@comcast.net
Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
08/18/2005 12:14 PM
Please respond to kitfox-list
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
cc:
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: KF IV Classic - Operation Cleanup
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
Gary, I experienced additional airspeed, with the the faired joystruts
and
horizontal struts.
You should pick up significant help by fairing the
empenage intersections and gap seal. These are all draggy areas.
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean"
Gary,
Faired lift struts will give you a conservative 10 mph...
Fly Safe !!
John Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kitfoxjunky
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: KF IV Classic - Operation Cleanup
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky
&g
t;
Having a blast flying my KF IV on wheels. My buddy has a RANS
Coyotte...same engine...but he cruises about 15 mph faster than I do. He
wants to go to Oshkosh together next year but I am not so sure I want to
sit in his slip stream for 10 hrs. I have the standard round wing
struts,
tube style gear, no wheel pants, no fairings even on the leading edge of
the wing root. Also no gap seals between the upper surface of the hor
stab and vert stab or the elevator and rudder controls. Droop wing tips
too. Any one want to hazard a guess on what kind of cruise gain I could
get if I did the mods to all these over time? I cruise about 90-100 mph
now, depending on how I pitch the IVO prop with the 912S.
Gary Walsh
C-GOOT
www.decisionlabs.com/ki
tfox
do not archive
Gary, I experienced additional airspeed, with the the faired joystruts
and
horizontal struts. You should pick up significant help by fairing the
empenage intersections and gap seal. These are all draggy areas.
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <JDMCBEAN@CABLEONE.NET>
Gary,
Faired lift struts will give you a conservative 10 mph...
Fly Safe !!
John Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kitfoxjunky
To: kit
fox-list@matronics.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: KF IV Classic - Operation Cleanup
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky
<KITFOXJUNKY@DECISIONLABS.COM>
Having a blast flying my KF IV on wheels. My buddy has a RANS
Coyotte...same engine...but he cruises about 15
mph faster than I do. He
wants to go to Oshkosh together next year but I am not so sure I want to
sit in his slip stream for 10 hrs. I have the standard round wing struts,
tube style gear, no wheel pants, no fairings even on the leading edge of
the wing root. Also no gap seals between the upper surface of the hor
stab and vert stab or the elevator and rudder controls. Droop wing tips
too. Any one want to hazard a guess on what kind of cruise gain I could
get if I did the mods to all these over time? I cruise about 90-100 mph
now, depending on how I pitch the IVO pr
op with the 912S.
Gary Walsh
C-GOOT
www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
do not archive
Message 23
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| Subject: | Looking for college/high school/youth aviation club |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
This was posted on the SkyStar info board I contacted Helen for permission
to post it here.
My boss is looking for a college/high school/youth aviation club that he can
donate his Kitfox (3/4 assembled) airplane to. Here are the details
(sketchy, I know, but this is all I was given): Classic IV Kitfox 2 seat
experimental aircraft by Skystar Aircraft Corporation. Incomplete but
includes avionics panel (produced by Gulf Coast Avionics) and a ballistic
recovery system (parachute). Our company is in Pasadena, California, but the
plane is garaged in La Canada, California. If anyone is interested you can
e-mail me at helen_howerton@cityspaces.com, or call me at 626.449.6222.
Thanks very much.
John McBean
Message 24
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
John:
It doen't sound fair to me to compare the Eurofox to
either an Avid or a Kitfox. I was told by a friend
that went to Sun&Fun 05 that this plane's fuselage is
constructed out of aluminum tubes attached together by
gussets. If this information is correct, then this
fuselage can't be compared to a chromemoly, welded
frame. Your 2350 hours chromemoly fuselage would take
better care of you in case of a crash. Michael Gibbs
from the Kitfox list can confirm this. He would have
not survived his crash had he been in an Eurofox.
This is just an opinion, and will no longer be valid
if the information that I received is not correct.
Jose
--- skypics234@aol.com wrote:
> Chester:
>
> Yes the Avid is the father of Kitfoxes and I believe
> if Avid would have been
> better managed the Avid would still be out selling
> and out flying the
> Kitfoxes.
>
> In fact if you search for Eurofox on the Internet
> you will find a factory
> assembled Avid that come out to the Czech republic
> and is distributed, ready to
> fly from Robbins in Indiana.
>
> $50,000 gets you a sport certified Avid that has
> been improved an many small
> ways.
>
> You have the option of Rotax 912 80 HP or 100 HP.
>
> I have 2350 hours on my old model B s/n 234 with
> Rotax 582 power and every
> hour has been a ball. Very cheap flying.
>
> John M
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
Jose M. Toro, P.E.
Kitfox II/582->Jabiru 2200
"A slow flight in the Caribbean..."
Message 25
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: David Creemer <david@zachary.com>
From http://rlsa.us/eurofox.htm
EuroFox is:
"precision-welded 4130 chromoly steel tube fuselage, aluminum wings,
with fuselage and wings covered with UV-protected PolyFiber fabric"
- David
On Aug 18, 2005, at 12:00 PM, Jose M. Toro wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro"
> <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
>
> John:
>
> It doen't sound fair to me to compare the Eurofox to
> either an Avid or a Kitfox. I was told by a friend
> that went to Sun&Fun 05 that this plane's fuselage is
> constructed out of aluminum tubes attached together by
> gussets. If this information is correct, then this
> fuselage can't be compared to a chromemoly, welded
> frame. Your 2350 hours chromemoly fuselage would take
> better care of you in case of a crash. Michael Gibbs
> from the Kitfox list can confirm this. He would have
> not survived his crash had he been in an Eurofox.
>
> This is just an opinion, and will no longer be valid
> if the information that I received is not correct.
>
> Jose
>
> --- skypics234@aol.com wrote:
>
>
>> Chester:
>>
>> Yes the Avid is the father of Kitfoxes and I believe
>> if Avid would have been
>> better managed the Avid would still be out selling
>> and out flying the
>> Kitfoxes.
>>
>> In fact if you search for Eurofox on the Internet
>> you will find a factory
>> assembled Avid that come out to the Czech republic
>> and is distributed, ready to
>> fly from Robbins in Indiana.
>>
>> $50,000 gets you a sport certified Avid that has
>> been improved an many small
>> ways.
>>
>> You have the option of Rotax 912 80 HP or 100 HP.
>>
>> I have 2350 hours on my old model B s/n 234 with
>> Rotax 582 power and every
>> hour has been a ball. Very cheap flying.
>>
>> John M
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been
>> removed]
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Jose M. Toro, P.E.
> Kitfox II/582->Jabiru 2200
> "A slow flight in the Caribbean..."
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Eurofox - My apologies |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
David:
You are right. I was misinformed. My apologies to
Eurofox distributors and manufacturers.
Jose
--- David Creemer <david@zachary.com> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: David Creemer
> <david@zachary.com>
>
> From http://rlsa.us/eurofox.htm
>
> EuroFox is:
>
> "precision-welded 4130 chromoly steel tube fuselage,
> aluminum wings,
> with fuselage and wings covered with UV-protected
> PolyFiber fabric"
>
>
> - David
>
>
> On Aug 18, 2005, at 12:00 PM, Jose M. Toro wrote:
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro"
>
> > <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
> >
> > John:
> >
> > It doen't sound fair to me to compare the Eurofox
> to
> > either an Avid or a Kitfox. I was told by a
> friend
> > that went to Sun&Fun 05 that this plane's fuselage
> is
> > constructed out of aluminum tubes attached
> together by
> > gussets. If this information is correct, then
> this
> > fuselage can't be compared to a chromemoly, welded
> > frame. Your 2350 hours chromemoly fuselage would
> take
> > better care of you in case of a crash. Michael
> Gibbs
> > from the Kitfox list can confirm this. He would
> have
> > not survived his crash had he been in an Eurofox.
> >
> > This is just an opinion, and will no longer be
> valid
> > if the information that I received is not correct.
> >
> > Jose
> >
> > --- skypics234@aol.com wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Chester:
> >>
> >> Yes the Avid is the father of Kitfoxes and I
> believe
> >> if Avid would have been
> >> better managed the Avid would still be out
> selling
> >> and out flying the
> >> Kitfoxes.
> >>
> >> In fact if you search for Eurofox on the Internet
> >> you will find a factory
> >> assembled Avid that come out to the Czech
> republic
> >> and is distributed, ready to
> >> fly from Robbins in Indiana.
> >>
> >> $50,000 gets you a sport certified Avid that has
> >> been improved an many small
> >> ways.
> >>
> >> You have the option of Rotax 912 80 HP or 100 HP.
> >>
> >> I have 2350 hours on my old model B s/n 234 with
> >> Rotax 582 power and every
> >> hour has been a ball. Very cheap flying.
> >>
> >> John M
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> >> removed]
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > Jose M. Toro, P.E.
> > Kitfox II/582->Jabiru 2200
> > "A slow flight in the Caribbean..."
> >
> >
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
Jose M. Toro, P.E.
Kitfox II/582->Jabiru 2200
"A slow flight in the Caribbean..."
__________________________________
http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
Message 27
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Marco Menezes wrote:
> I noticed that the left wing tank empties much faster that the right.
Marco, you probably don't fly very level. ... nor do I! :-) I often notice the
fuel level being different from one wing to the other. If you see that fuel
goes down in both wings but not at the same rate, then I think there is nothing
to worry about.
Cheers,
Michel
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Bungee Cords |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Marco Menezes wrote:
> Hi Michel. I don't think it's just about number of landings. They just stretch
> out with time.
Thanks Marco. I guess then that mine are also stretched because, sometimes,
they are not pressing against the shock pads.
> From: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
> You should replace them once a year. I ordered mine from SkyStar and I
> received them the same week. The best thing is they are inexpensive.
Once a year? Good Lord! Then mine are certainly overdue, Robert!
But ... I can order it from Skystar or Aircraft Spruce but ... adding the
courier shipping (by plane) the Norwegian VAT (Value Added Tax) of 25% on both
goods and shipping ... it's not cheap. I was wondering: Is that a special type
of bungee or is it the same I can find in any shipchandler, here in Norway?
Cheers,
Michel
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Bungee Cords |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
Michel - I think if you get the right diameter bungee cord, doesn't matter where
you get them . . . I suspect it's all the same stuff.
Marco
do not archive
Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe
Marco Menezes wrote:
> Hi Michel. I don't think it's just about number of landings. They just stretch
> out with time.
Thanks Marco. I guess then that mine are also stretched because, sometimes,
they are not pressing against the shock pads.
> From: "Harris, Robert"
> You should replace them once a year. I ordered mine from SkyStar and I
> received them the same week. The best thing is they are inexpensive.
Once a year? Good Lord! Then mine are certainly overdue, Robert!
But ... I can order it from Skystar or Aircraft Spruce but ... adding the
courier shipping (by plane) the Norwegian VAT (Value Added Tax) of 25% on both
goods and shipping ... it's not cheap. I was wondering: Is that a special type
of bungee or is it the same I can find in any shipchandler, here in Norway?
Cheers,
Michel
---------------------------------
Message 30
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
This is a common "complaint". I think you are right that equal fuel flow
should be expected, but there are a lot of factors in play here. Some of
the more esoteric might be internal line friction and stuff like that. . I
believe the most common is the tendency to fly with one wing high, i.e. in
slightly uncordinated flight. Keep in mind that most of our Kitfoxes don't
have fuel valves between the tanks and the header tank. The fuel has the
ability to seek it's level
After a fuel stop on the last flight to Idaho one of the guys was seen to be
losing fuel from one of his fuel vents. We did fly bys and there was
nothing wrong with the fuel cap but he was definitely flying with one wing
low. The problem was corrected when he leveled the wings.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marco Menezes" <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: fuel flow
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
>
> I flew N99KX yesterday for the second time, logging 1.6 hrs. Performance
> was generally excellent although I'm still experiencing somewhat elevated
> EGT's (~1250) and water temps (180) at high power settings, particularly
> on climb. But that's not my issue today.
>
> I noticed that the left wing tank empties much faster that the right.
> After the flight, the left tank had half the fuel of the right, though i'd
> put 5 gal in each. With an open system, shouldn't the tanks drain equally?
> I know the right isn't plugged because I can quickly drain the entire
> system from a quick drain I installed in the feed line from header tank to
> engine. Is this a problem? I'd hate to find that it is at 1000 feet agl
> with the left tank completely dry.
>
> Marco Menezes
> Model 2 582 N99KX
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Bungee Cords |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
Look for some good quality bungee locally first.
It's not unique. Personally, I change mine when it
begins to sag which is usually every two to three
years in the hot humid environment around Houston. I
would also change it if it was damaged but I've never
experienced it over the last 9 yrs.
Regards,
Ted
--- Original Message ---
From: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Subject: Re: SV: Kitfox-List: Bungee Cords
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe
<michel@online.no>
>
>Marco Menezes wrote:
>> Hi Michel. I don't think it's just about number of
landings. They just stretch
>> out with time.
>
>Thanks Marco. I guess then that mine are also
stretched because, sometimes,
>they are not pressing against the shock pads.
>
>> From: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
>> You should replace them once a year. I ordered
mine from SkyStar and I
>> received them the same week. The best thing is
they are inexpensive.
>
>Once a year? Good Lord! Then mine are certainly
overdue, Robert!
>
>But ... I can order it from Skystar or Aircraft
Spruce but ... adding the
>courier shipping (by plane) the Norwegian VAT (Value
Added Tax) of 25% on both
>goods and shipping ... it's not cheap. I was
wondering: Is that a special type
>of bungee or is it the same I can find in any
shipchandler, here in Norway?
>
>Cheers,
>Michel
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: KF IV Classic - Operation Cleanup |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Gary, If you did all that, I suspect you would more than keep up with him.
Doesn't his desire for company allow for his reducing a little throttle for
the companionship?
With our flying group we always flew to the speed of the slowest airplane.
We had on occasion new guys join the group and it was always amusing as we
watched them disappear over the horison in front of us as they put the pedal
to the metal. and found their own way to the destination airport.
My opinion that in group flights a little flexability can overcome a lot of
variability in the airplanes. I would much rather fly a long cross country
with a buddy and would do what it took to stay together. We usually flew
pretty low and the more eyes on the ground the more we could see as a group.
And what I mean is the scenery and wild life.
Go for the mods and then throttle back enough to stay together.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "kitfoxjunky" <kitfoxjunky@decisionlabs.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: KF IV Classic - Operation Cleanup
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky
> <kitfoxjunky@decisionlabs.com>
>
> Having a blast flying my KF IV on wheels. My buddy has a RANS
> Coyotte...same engine...but he cruises about 15 mph faster than I do. He
> wants to go to Oshkosh together next year but I am not so sure I want to
> sit in his slip stream for 10 hrs. I have the standard round wing struts,
> tube style gear, no wheel pants, no fairings even on the leading edge of
> the wing root. Also no gap seals between the upper surface of the hor
> stab and vert stab or the elevator and rudder controls. Droop wing tips
> too. Any one want to hazard a guess on what kind of cruise gain I could
> get if I did the mods to all these over time? I cruise about 90-100 mph
> now, depending on how I pitch the IVO prop with the 912S.
>
>
> Gary Walsh
> C-GOOT
> www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Bungee Cords |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Perry" <eskflyer@pld.com>
NO it is not all the same different rubber diff. stretch . diff strength
Just get the right stuff from the right people and do it right the first
time.
Just my humble opininated opinion.
John Perry
-------Original Message-------
From: Marco Menezes
Subject: Re: SV: Kitfox-List: Bungee Cords
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
Michel - I think if you get the right diameter bungee cord, doesn't matter
where you get them . . . I suspect it's all the same stuff.
Marco
do not archive
Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe
Marco Menezes wrote:
> Hi Michel. I don't think it's just about number of landings. They just
stretch
> out with time.
Thanks Marco. I guess then that mine are also stretched because, sometimes,
they are not pressing against the shock pads.
> From: "Harris, Robert"
> You should replace them once a year. I ordered mine from SkyStar and I
> received them the same week. The best thing is they are inexpensive.
Once a year? Good Lord! Then mine are certainly overdue, Robert!
But ... I can order it from Skystar or Aircraft Spruce but ... adding the
courier shipping (by plane) the Norwegian VAT (Value Added Tax) of 25% on
both
goods and shipping ... it's not cheap. I was wondering: Is that a special
type
of bungee or is it the same I can find in any shipchandler, here in Norway?
Cheers,
Michel
---------------------------------
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Rib Stitching |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
Bud,
From a wholly different perspective - I rib stitched even though I figured
it wasn't necessary because I wanted to have the experience of doing it. I
would do it again because it was easy, fun, and gives a reassuring
mechanical attachment of fabric to rib.
Bill
IV-1200
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Larsen" <jopatco@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rib Stitching
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: John Larsen <jopatco@mindspring.com>
>
> Hi Bud
> Dean Wilson checked with the FAA years ago and they verified that wing
> ribs with one inch cap strips such as your wings, do not need rib
> stitching. Having the fabric shrunk onto the wings, locks the wing
> structure together. Those who like to wear a belt and suspenders too,
> will rib stitch their wings and this is a good thing. I once checked the
> NTSB reports from 1983 to 1998 and could not find one instance of loose
> fabric causing any sort of accident on an Kitfox, Avid or any plane
> using one inch cap strips.
> Your plane should be safe for its stated gross weight regardless of the
> engine.
> Thank Gayle for the picture of her and Harrison Ford, and the
> accompanying article.
> Cheers
>
> Gayle & Bud wrote:
>
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gayle & Bud" <bud@idcnet.com>
> >
> >I am building a Kitfox IV. Eons ago when I covered the wings, I did not
rib
> >stitch, instead just glued fabric to ribs. Now with a larger engine
> >(Subaru), I'm concerned about the fabric coming loose and ballooning.
Since
> >the wings are painted with Aerothane, it will probably mean stripping the
> >fabric off and starting over. Any opinions?
> >
> >Thanks
> >
> >Bud Popken
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 35
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
I personally recommend it... for various reasons.
I have met those that haven't rib laced and wished they had... not that it
was needed but just wished they had. I have yet to meet someone who has rib
laced and wished they didn't. There are several hundred Avids, Kitfoxes and
others that are not. With the higher HP and speeds I feel it prudent to rib
lace. IMHO...
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chenoweth
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rib Stitching
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
Bud,
From a wholly different perspective - I rib stitched even though I figured
it wasn't necessary because I wanted to have the experience of doing it. I
would do it again because it was easy, fun, and gives a reassuring
mechanical attachment of fabric to rib.
Bill
IV-1200
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Larsen" <jopatco@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rib Stitching
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: John Larsen <jopatco@mindspring.com>
>
> Hi Bud
> Dean Wilson checked with the FAA years ago and they verified that wing
> ribs with one inch cap strips such as your wings, do not need rib
> stitching. Having the fabric shrunk onto the wings, locks the wing
> structure together. Those who like to wear a belt and suspenders too,
> will rib stitch their wings and this is a good thing. I once checked the
> NTSB reports from 1983 to 1998 and could not find one instance of loose
> fabric causing any sort of accident on an Kitfox, Avid or any plane
> using one inch cap strips.
> Your plane should be safe for its stated gross weight regardless of the
> engine.
> Thank Gayle for the picture of her and Harrison Ford, and the
> accompanying article.
> Cheers
>
> Gayle & Bud wrote:
>
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gayle & Bud" <bud@idcnet.com>
> >
> >I am building a Kitfox IV. Eons ago when I covered the wings, I did not
rib
> >stitch, instead just glued fabric to ribs. Now with a larger engine
> >(Subaru), I'm concerned about the fabric coming loose and ballooning.
Since
> >the wings are painted with Aerothane, it will probably mean stripping the
> >fabric off and starting over. Any opinions?
> >
> >Thanks
> >
> >Bud Popken
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Bungee Cords |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David Savener" <david_savener@msn.com>
I bought a used Model II and the bungees were letting the gear sag. I checked
the construction manual on the one I'm building and they were one turn short of
having enough wraps. With proper installation, the work fine. You might check
that!
Davessss
----- Original Message -----
From: Marco Menezes<mailto:msm_9949@yahoo.com>
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 4:11 PM
Subject: Re: SV: Kitfox-List: Bungee Cords
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com<mailto:msm_9949@yahoo.com>>
Michel - I think if you get the right diameter bungee cord, doesn't matter where
you get them . . . I suspect it's all the same stuff.
Marco
do not archive
Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no<mailto:michel@online.no>> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe
Marco Menezes wrote:
> Hi Michel. I don't think it's just about number of landings. They just stretch
> out with time.
Thanks Marco. I guess then that mine are also stretched because, sometimes,
they are not pressing against the shock pads.
> From: "Harris, Robert"
> You should replace them once a year. I ordered mine from SkyStar and I
> received them the same week. The best thing is they are inexpensive.
Once a year? Good Lord! Then mine are certainly overdue, Robert!
But ... I can order it from Skystar or Aircraft Spruce but ... adding the
courier shipping (by plane) the Norwegian VAT (Value Added Tax) of 25% on both
goods and shipping ... it's not cheap. I was wondering: Is that a special type
of bungee or is it the same I can find in any shipchandler, here in Norway?
Cheers,
Michel
---------------------------------
Message 37
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| Subject: | Changing Bungee Cords |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
Indeed, it has, Dee. And while on the subject (I am not the original poster) I'd
like to ask something I think hasn't been answered those last two years I have
been on the list: When do you change them?
I don't know when the previous owners of my Kitfox changed them. Mine are at least
two years old and, at inspection, they look pretty good. But when should I
change them? Is it a matter of years or a matter of flying hours, or a matter
of how many langings I've had?
Thanks in advance,
Michel
Michel, change them when they start to sag below the bumpers on the bottom of the
airframe. I usually check them at each preflight along with the safety cables.
Dee
Do not archive
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Altitude vs Speed |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Brian Peck <u2drvr@dslextreme.com>
Prop efficiency also makes a big difference in determining the
optimum cruise altitude. The only way to really know is to do a test.
Use a GPS and measure groundspeed at various altitudes. Measure in
four cardinal directions and take the average for each altitude. For
normally aspirated fixed pitch aircraft, the optimum is usually in
the range of 6000 - 8000 feet (your mileage may vary). The best way
to optimize ground speed for cross country is to check the winds and
fly lower to avoid strong headwinds and higher to take advantage of
strong tailwinds.
Cheers,
BP
Kitfox V, IO-240B
U-2s, GE F-118-100
On Aug 18, 2005, at 8:44 AM, Guy Buchanan wrote:
>>
>>
>
> Well, If you can get to 12,500' on a standard day your TAS is about
> 20%
> faster than your CAS, no matter what you're flying. The question
> is, what
> kind of power will you have at that altitude? The naturally aspirated
> Bonanza I fly is fastest flying at about 7500', where the density
> altitude
> correction is only about 11%. You'll have to get some performance
> versus
> altitude data for the powerplant you're using to know whether it's
> worth
> it. Does anyone have data for a 582 with mixture control?
>
> Guy Buchanan
> K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
>
> Do not archive
>
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Rib Stitching |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
> mechanical attachment of fabric to rib
Stitching also gives you a mechanical attachment of the "1 inch rib cap" to
the "rib". Nobody has mentioned this. I seem to remember a very small
staple that is holding the 1 inch cap to the rib. Also saw one starting to
let loose. Rib stitching holds the whole thing together. Fabric to cap and
cap to rib.
Don Smythe
Classic IV W/ 582
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rib Stitching
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
>
> Bud,
> From a wholly different perspective - I rib stitched even though I figured
> it wasn't necessary because I wanted to have the experience of doing it.
> I
> would do it again because it was easy, fun, and gives a reassuring
> mechanical attachment of fabric to rib.
> Bill
> IV-1200
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Larsen" <jopatco@mindspring.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rib Stitching
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: John Larsen <jopatco@mindspring.com>
>>
>> Hi Bud
>> Dean Wilson checked with the FAA years ago and they verified that wing
>> ribs with one inch cap strips such as your wings, do not need rib
>> stitching. Having the fabric shrunk onto the wings, locks the wing
>> structure together. Those who like to wear a belt and suspenders too,
>> will rib stitch their wings and this is a good thing. I once checked the
>> NTSB reports from 1983 to 1998 and could not find one instance of loose
>> fabric causing any sort of accident on an Kitfox, Avid or any plane
>> using one inch cap strips.
>> Your plane should be safe for its stated gross weight regardless of the
>> engine.
>> Thank Gayle for the picture of her and Harrison Ford, and the
>> accompanying article.
>> Cheers
>>
>> Gayle & Bud wrote:
>>
>> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gayle & Bud" <bud@idcnet.com>
>> >
>> >I am building a Kitfox IV. Eons ago when I covered the wings, I did not
> rib
>> >stitch, instead just glued fabric to ribs. Now with a larger engine
>> >(Subaru), I'm concerned about the fabric coming loose and ballooning.
> Since
>> >the wings are painted with Aerothane, it will probably mean stripping
>> >the
>> >fabric off and starting over. Any opinions?
>> >
>> >Thanks
>> >
>> >Bud Popken
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 40
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| Subject: | Tail Wheel to Tricycle on IV 1200 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jhpmaryland@comcast.net
What does it take to go from tail wheel to tricycle?
Does engine mount need to be changed? There is another clevis on the frame but
not sure if it will work to move the gear back?
Does anyone have the parts?
thanks, Jerry P.
What does it take to go from tail wheel to tricycle?
Does engine mount need to be changed? There is another clevis on the frame but
not sure if it will work to move the gear back?
Does anyone have the parts?
thanks, Jerry P.
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Bungee Cords |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles <wliles@bayou.com>
Michael,
Replace the bungees when they start to show wear of the covering, or
broken strands,or they start to show stretch when the plane is loaded
(they should be still tight, with no sag, when the plane is loaded). I
had to replace my first set after 5 years, and only because a fuel leak
soaked them and destroyed the rubber strands. Just as well since I was
going to replace them anyway. Yearly replacement is probably not
necessary in these very lightweight aircraft.
Jerry Liles
Michel Verheughe wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>
>Marco Menezes wrote:
>
>
>>Hi Michel. I don't think it's just about number of landings. They just stretch
>>out with time.
>>
>>
>
>Thanks Marco. I guess then that mine are also stretched because, sometimes,
>they are not pressing against the shock pads.
>
>
>
>>From: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
>>You should replace them once a year. I ordered mine from SkyStar and I
>>received them the same week. The best thing is they are inexpensive.
>>
>>
>
>Once a year? Good Lord! Then mine are certainly overdue, Robert!
>
>But ... I can order it from Skystar or Aircraft Spruce but ... adding the
>courier shipping (by plane) the Norwegian VAT (Value Added Tax) of 25% on both
>goods and shipping ... it's not cheap. I was wondering: Is that a special type
>of bungee or is it the same I can find in any shipchandler, here in Norway?
>
>Cheers,
>Michel
>
>
>-----------------------------------------------
>Scanned by Bayou Internet for all known viruses.
>http://www.bayou.com
>
>
>
Message 42
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "clemwehner" <clemwehner@sbcglobal.net>
I concur on the value of rib stitching. Several years ago, I debated
with myself over the same issue of whether or not to rib stitch. One day
I was in Washington and visited the Air and Space museum. As I walked
around some of the old airplanes from the early days, I looked at the
rib stitching with a new found interest. I saw photographs of lines of
women in long dresses lacing ribs on giant wings of big four engine
fabric covered aircraft and on little wings of WWI fighters. I realized
that people were lacing ribs decades before I was born and essentially
the process is unchanged today. I decided that since building an
airplane was supposed to be an educational process, that I would learn
how and rib stitch mine just to say I had done it and share in some
aviation history. I had fun doing it and when done I felt like I had
joined a unique fraternity of people who understood what that process
was all about, making airplanes from wood and fabric and glue and
string. To this day I'm glad I did it, and am proud of how it still
looks after a lot of years.
Rib stitching may not be necessary, but then neither is a pretty paint
job or sanding a part that no one will ever see, or neatly lacing your
wires buried under a cowling. Try it, you have fun and you'll be glad
you did.
Clem
Lawton, OK
KF IV-912
You wrote: Bud and Gayle wrote:.........Those who like to wear a belt
and suspenders too, will rib stitch their wings and this is a good
thing. .......
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: sight gauges |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: James Shumaker <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
Same here Michel. I'll have to buy two cans of WD40 when I change my sight tubes.
Jim Shumaker
Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe
> From: James Shumaker [jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net]
> The only reason "WD40" is mentioned is that everyone in america instantly
> recognizes the name and the straw. Any spray can straw could be used.
Thank you, Jim. WD40 is also pretty well known, in Norway, although we have other
makes of "toolbox in a can" as they advertise. Incidentally, those "straws"
are the first thing I loose when I buy a new can! :-)
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: Rib Stitching |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" <sonex321@msn.com>
This accident was probably due to improper procedure for covering the wings.
Similar to Steve Whitman's tragic accident some time back.
bh
ex-582ed N194KF IV-1200, 800+ hrs, no rib stitching.
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Todd Lesh"
> <theleshfamily@gbronline.com>
>
> Here is an Avid that went down with material pulling away from capstrips.I
> went ahead and learned the art of ribstiching.
> CHI05CA025
> On November 6, 2004, at 1145 central standard time, a homebuilt Jabat,
> Inc.,
> Avid Flyer, N90JW, collided with trees while making an off airport forced
> landing in Cleveland, Missouri. The pilot was not injured. The airplane
> was
> substantially damaged. The 14 CFR Part 91 personal flight was operating in
> visual meteorological conditions without a flight plan. The flight
> originated from a private airstrip in Cleveland, Missouri, at 1105.
>
> The pilot reported that a malfunction occurred on the right wing while he
> was flying at 1,000 feet above mean sea level. He stated the airplane
> entered a right descending spiral. The airplane descended into a field
> about
> 2 miles away from his departure airstrip. The pilot stated the airplane
> contacted the ground then slid into trees, damaging the right wing.
>
> A post accident examination of the airplane was conducted by an inspector
> from the Federal Aviation Administration Flight Standards District Office
> in
> Kansas City, Missouri. The inspector reported that it appeared as if the
> fabric on the right wing had separated from the ribs. No other
> failures/malfunctions with the wing were noted.
> The pilot reported the fabric is glued to 1-inch rib caps in the wings. He
> also reported that it appeared as if the fabric had pulled away from the
> caps.
>
> The airplane was constructed in 1985 and it had been flown about 300 hours
> prior to the accident. The pilot reported the last annual inspection of
> the
> airplane was in April, 2004, and the airplane had been flown 4 hours since
> that inspection.
>
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