Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:35 AM - Re: Return Springs (Lynn Matteson)
2. 05:00 AM - SV: Return Springs (Michel Verheughe)
3. 06:03 AM - Re: SV: Return Springs (Lynn Matteson)
4. 06:42 AM - Re: SV: Return Springs (skyflyte@comcast.net)
5. 07:12 AM - Re: SV: Return Springs (kitfox@gto.net)
6. 07:25 AM - Folding wing troubles! (Paul Seehafer)
7. 07:44 AM - Re: Folding wing troubles! (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
8. 08:12 AM - Re: Vortex Generators (jdmcbean)
9. 08:21 AM - Re: Folding wing troubles! (jdmcbean)
10. 08:29 AM - Re: Folding wing troubles! (Lynn Matteson)
11. 08:37 AM - Re: Folding wing troubles! (flier)
12. 08:42 AM - Re: Folding wing troubles! (Lynn Matteson)
13. 09:07 AM - Re: wing tanks/ethynol (jareds)
14. 09:10 AM - Re: Folding wing troubles! (Chenoweth)
15. 09:59 AM - Re: Folding wing troubles! (Brett Walmsley)
16. 10:04 AM - Re: wing tanks/ethynol (John Perry)
17. 10:21 AM - Re: wing tanks/ethynol (kitfox@gto.net)
18. 12:52 PM - Re: wing tanks/ethynol (PWilson)
19. 12:52 PM - Re: Folding wing troubles! (PWilson)
20. 12:52 PM - Re: Folding wing troubles! (PWilson)
21. 12:52 PM - Re: Folding wing troubles! (PWilson)
22. 12:58 PM - Re: wing tanks/ethynol (jdmcbean)
23. 12:58 PM - Re: Folding wing troubles! (jdmcbean)
24. 01:56 PM - Re: Return Springs (John Anderson)
25. 03:58 PM - Re: Re Landing gear bungy cords. (Marwynne)
26. 04:31 PM - Bungee Cords Size and Length for a Model IV. (Marwynne)
27. 04:42 PM - Re: wing tanks/ethynol (Brian Rodgers)
28. 06:32 PM - Float Rigging...if you have floats have a look (daniel johnson)
29. 10:54 PM - Re: wing tanks/ethynol (Guy Buchanan)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Return Springs |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
I slept on this idea last night, Michel, and I just cringed at the
thought of using a choke-type cable and housing for a rudder control.
It just seemed too stiff and not of the right material. I know that you
know of boating material that might be suited to this application, but
that sounds like a cable and housing, and we're right back where we
started, it seems.
Lynn
On Wednesday, August 24, 2005, at 05:32 PM, Michel Verheughe wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>
> Lynn Matteson wrote:
>> Wouldn't have to be,Michel....it could be like model planes do and
>> have
>> a long rod (like the elevator on the Kitfox) actuate a horn on the
>> side
>> of the rudder, but a lot of model guys (me included) like the idea of
>> pull-pulls, and toss the rod and horn and use kevlar thread on their
>> models attached to two rudder horns, just like our 'foxes. The
>> geometry
>> gets a little involved sometimes, but no biggie.
>
> Of course, Lynn. But I was thinking about replacing the existing
> cables by thin
> rods in sleeves, like what we have as choke or carb heater controls.
> Not a
> thick rod like for the elevator. Wouldn't that remove the need for a
> return
> spring and prevent the fraying of the wire, as it happened for
> Johannes? Just wondering.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
>
Message 2
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
> From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt@jps.net]
> and we're right back where we started, it seems.
You are certainly right, Lynn, and it would be extremely arrogant from my part
to "invent" something that generations of fine airmen haven't been thinking about
before. I just wanted to know why it was not such a good idea. My primary
though was that solid rod was not subject to fraying as a cable.
In any case, what happened to Johannes is apparently very rare and our Kitfoxes
are good and safe planes. I do check, of course, the wires, at each preflight.
Just a part of the routine. Of course, much of it is hiden in the plastic sleeve.
But, if fraying happens, I think it will be at an end and not in the middle,
right? Unless, of course, if the cable has been badly bend for some reason,
like being caught in a bush, branches, obstacle.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Return Springs |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
I agree, Michel, fraying, it would seem, WOULD occur somewhere other
than inside the nylon tubes that we have in our Kitfoxes, which are
very short. The cable is otherwise very visible and should be able to
be inspected prior to each flight. Unless the cable is subjected to
very tight deflections in its routing, going over a interfering
obstacle, etc., I can't imagine what could cause a cable to
fail...except for rust, corrosion, poor quality, etc.
Lynn
On Thursday, August 25, 2005, at 08:00 AM, Michel Verheughe wrote:
>
> But, if fraying happens, I think it will be at an end and not in the
> middle, right? Unless, of course, if the cable has been badly bend for
> some reason, like being caught in a bush, branches, obstacle.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Return Springs |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: skyflyte@comcast.net
The Lazair twin engine ultralight used 3/8" (I think) Al tubing to control the
ruddavators. These tubes went through guides and made gentle turns as they went
from the control stick to the control surfaces.I never heard of any problems
with this arrangement.
Mike
do not archive
The Lazair twin engine ultralight used 3/8" (I think) Al tubing to control the
ruddavators. These tubes went through guides and made gentle turns as they went
from the control stick to the control surfaces.I never heard of any problems
with this arrangement.
Mike
do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Return Springs |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
Hi, I have a lazair too and it has as Mike described that goes through
a nylon busings from front of boom to tail. Works well and aloderones
used 1/4 tubing.
But on the Kitfox I not sure what all the fuss about. The cables are
proven and do i read that the cable frayed in the tube under the seat?
I look at mine and they fine. But that is part of every inspection
checking rudder cables.
I just put amphibs on my KF and i got extra cable on each side now to
control water rudder. They are simular to a choke cable (braided steel
through a plastic jacket) and they run to the tail of the floats.
Makes the rudder a bit stiffer but hey what a blast.
Kirby
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: skyflyte@comcast.net
>
> The Lazair twin engine ultralight used 3/8" (I think) Al tubing to
control the ruddavators. These tubes went through guides and made
gentle turns as they went from the control stick to the control
surfaces.I never heard of any problems with this arrangement.
> Mike
> do not archive
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Folding wing troubles! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
Ok guys, another problem I don't know what to do about.
I'm having wing folding issues with my long wing Model IV-1200.
I bought the airplane complete, but it was in need of a lot of TLC. The
wings would only fold partly when I purchased it due to the inboard flaperon
counterweights hitting the top of the fuselage. So I just removed them to
trailer the airplane home. But after repositioning the weights and trying
to fold the wings again yesterday, I realize there are a lot of other
issues.
1- The flaperon inboard weights still hit the top of the fuselage even after
I repositioned them per the manual. So it looks like I have to move them
further outboard to something like 80 and 83 inches (vs the 85 and 89 inches
the manual states). But I'm concerned about aerodynamic balancing? Or is
that no big deal? (I have 2 weights per wing)
2- I can't attach the wing hold down rods that are used to hold the wings in
place when trailering because the flaperon is in the way. With the flaperon
pivoted 90 degrees it positions the flaperon right between where the
attachment rod would need to go from the clip on the wing strut to the
flattened tube bolt connection on the bottom of the vertical fin. To make
it work I would literally have to make a hole in the flaperon for the rod to
go through it, which I obviously don't want to do. So I currently have no
way to secure the wing for trailering. (My Kitfox has 10 inch wide
flaperons fwiw) Is there a different hold down rod used whenever you have
the 10 inch flaperons?
3- When the wings are folded the back corners of the windshield (the part
that overhangs and secures the turtledeck cover) bends and gouges into the
top of the wing. Fwiw, I have a 1 inch overhang of glass from the center of
the rear spar attach bolt, (and 1/2 inch on the sides from the edge of the
butt rib) The windshield is LP Aero plexiglass. I would anticipate having
to round the back corners of the windshield, and possibly tapering the
overhang close to the corner too, in order to clear the top of the wing.
But that is just my initial idea.
4- The flaperons just barely clear the top of the horizontal stabilizer,
scuffing it as they swing back (I have the ribbed horizontal tailfeathers).
Not a real big deal as I can hold up pressure on the wing as I fold it back,
but the flaperon rests against the inboard horizontal stabilizer fabric when
folded up, and could possibly damage something if trailered this way. This
just doesn't seem right.
So, has anyone else had any of these problems??? I find it hard to believe
it was engineered this way? But after looking at the manual and really
thinking about it, it appears it may have been? I've had four different
Avids in the past, and they all folded up easy as can be with none of these
issues. Am I missing something? Are there a few tricks or tips I need to
be aware of? Is this just because of the wide flaperons? If so, I
certainly can't be alone. Any advice, suggestions, or experiences would be
appreciated. Thanks.
Paul Seehafer
Model IV-1200 (basically a long-wing speedster)
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Folding wing troubles! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
Paul, have you heard of ganging tolerances. It sounds like you have the "Mother"
of them all. Mine also is a IV-1200 and have not encountered the issues you
are having.
1. Simetrical flaperons with single counter balance.
2. I did relieve the rear corners of the canopy to occomodate folding. A friend
heated and formed a slight "lift" of the corners of his LP canopy.
3. The tie bars miss the flaperons when connecting from fuselage to tab on lift
struct weldment.
4. The folded wings clear the horizontal without a problem.
As I write this, picturing the geometry of the folding wing, it seems to me that
the first place I would look would be the rigging. It is possible that a slight
increase in dihedral will solve some of your problems. Also, I believe the
dual counterweights were discontinued after the flaperons were changed to one-piece.
Hope this helps,
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer"
>
> Ok guys, another problem I don't know what to do about.
>
> I'm having wing folding issues with my long wing Model IV-1200.
>
> I bought the airplane complete, but it was in need of a lot of TLC. The
> wings would only fold partly when I purchased it due to the inboard flaperon
> counterweights hitting the top of the fuselage. So I just removed them to
> trailer the airplane home. But after repositioning the weights and trying
> to fold the wings again yesterday, I realize there are a lot of other
> issues.
>
> 1- The flaperon inboard weights still hit the top of the fuselage even after
> I repositioned them per the manual. So it looks like I have to move them
> further outboard to something like 80 and 83 inches (vs the 85 and 89 inches
> the manual states). But I'm concerned about aerodynamic balancing? Or is
> that no big deal? (I have 2 weights per wing)
>
> 2- I can't attach the wing hold down rods that are used to hold the wings in
> place when trailering because the flaperon is in the way. With the flaperon
> pivoted 90 degrees it positions the flaperon right between where the
> attachment rod would need to go from the clip on the wing strut to the
> flattened tube bolt connection on the bottom of the vertical fin. To make
> it work I would literally have to make a hole in the flaperon for the rod to
> go through it, which I obviously don't want to do. So I currently have no
> way to secure the wing for trailering. (My Kitfox has 10 inch wide
> flaperons fwiw) Is there a different hold down rod used whenever you have
> the 10 inch flaperons?
>
> 3- When the wings are folded the back corners of the windshield (the part
> that overhangs and secures the turtledeck cover) bends and gouges into the
> top of the wing. Fwiw, I have a 1 inch overhang of glass from the center of
> the rear spar attach bolt, (and 1/2 inch on the sides from the edge of the
> butt rib) The windshield is LP Aero plexiglass. I would anticipate having
> to round the back corners of the windshield, and possibly tapering the
> overhang close to the corner too, in order to clear the top of the wing.
> But that is just my initial idea.
>
> 4- The flaperons just barely clear the top of the horizontal stabilizer,
> scuffing it as they swing back (I have the ribbed horizontal tailfeathers).
> Not a real big deal as I can hold up pressure on the wing as I fold it back,
> but the flaperon rests against the inboard horizontal stabilizer fabric when
> folded up, and could possibly damage something if trailered this way. This
> just doesn't seem right.
>
> So, has anyone else had any of these problems??? I find it hard to believe
> it was engineered this way? But after looking at the manual and really
> thinking about it, it appears it may have been? I've had four different
> Avids in the past, and they all folded up easy as can be with none of these
> issues. Am I missing something? Are there a few tricks or tips I need to
> be aware of? Is this just because of the wide flaperons? If so, I
> certainly can't be alone. Any advice, suggestions, or experiences would be
> appreciated. Thanks.
>
> Paul Seehafer
> Model IV-1200 (basically a long-wing speedster)
>
>
>
>
>
>
Paul, have you heard of ganging tolerances. It sounds like you have the "Mother"
of them all. Mine also is a IV-1200 and have not encountered the issues you
are having.
1. Simetrical flaperons with single counter balance.
2. I did relieve the rear corners of the canopy to occomodate folding. A friend
heated and formed a slight "lift" of the corners of his LP canopy.
3. The tie bars miss the flaperons when connecting from fuselage to tab on lift
struct weldment.
4. The folded wings clear the horizontal without a problem.
As I write this, picturing the geometry of the folding wing, it seems to me that
the first place I would look would be the rigging. It is possible that a slight
increase in dihedral will solve some of your problems. Also, I believe the
dual counterweights were discontinued after the flaperons were changed to one-piece.
Hope this helps,
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <AV8RPS@TZNET.COM>
Ok guys, another problem I don't know what to do about.
I'm having wing folding issues with my long wing Model IV-1200.
I bought the airplane complete, but it was in need of a lot of TLC. The
wings would only fold partly when I purchased it due to the inboard flaperon
counterweights hitting the top of the fuselage. So I just removed them to
trailer the airplane home. But after repositioning the weights and trying
to fold the wings again yesterday, I realize there are a lot of other
issues.
1- The flaperon inboard weights still hit the top of the fuselage even after
I repositioned them per the manual. So it looks like I have to move them
further outboard to something like 80 and 83 inches (vs the 85 and 89 inches
the manual states). But I'm concerned about aerodynamic balancing? Or is
that no big deal? (I have 2 weights per wing)
2- I can't attach the wing hold down rods that are used to hold the wings in
place when trailering because the flaperon is in the way. With the flaperon
pivoted 90 degrees it positions the flaperon right between where the
attachment rod would need to go from the clip on the wing strut to the
flattened tube bolt connection on the bottom of the vertical fin. To make
it work I would literally have to make a hole in the flaperon for the rod to
go through it, which I obviously don't want to do. So I currently have no
way to secure the wing for trailering. (My Kitfox has 10 inch wide
flaperons fwiw) Is there a different hold down rod used whenever you have
the 10
inch flaperons?
3- When the wings are folded the back corners of the windshield (the part
that overhangs and secures the turtledeck cover) bends and gouges into the
top of the wing. Fwiw, I have a 1 inch overhang of glass from the center of
the rear spar attach bolt, (and 1/2 inch on the sides from the edge of the
butt rib) The windshield is LP Aero plexiglass. I would anticipate having
to round the back corners of the windshield, and possibly tapering the
overhang close to the corner too, in order to clear the top of the wing.
But that is just my initial idea.
4- The flaperons just barely clear the top of the horizontal stabilizer,
scuffing it as they swing back (I have the ribbed horizontal tailfeathers).
Not a real big deal as I can hold up pressure on the wing as I fold it back,
but the flaperon rests against the inboard horizontal stabilizer fabr
ic when
folded up, and could possibly damage something if trailered this way. This
just doesn't seem right.
So, has anyone else had any of these problems??? I find it hard to believe
it was engineered this way? But after looking at the manual and really
thinking about it, it appears it may have been? I've had four different
Avids in the past, and they all folded up easy as can be with none of these
issues. Am I missing something? Are there a few tricks or tips I need to
be aware of? Is this just because of the wide flaperons? If so, I
certainly can't be alone. Any advice, suggestions, or experiences would be
appreciated. Thanks.
Paul Seehafer
Model IV-1200 (basically a long-wing speedster)
Message 8
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| Subject: | Vortex Generators |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Currently have an aluminum set that we will be testing shortly.
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Kaser
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Vortex Generators
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tim Kaser <kaser@cableone.net>
Lets try this again with the correct subject.....
Vortex Generators on KF4.......Does anyone have experience finding the
sweet spot (line) on the wing? and would you be willing to enlighten
me? and/or the list?
Eager to learn
Tim Kaser
N316R KF4-1200
Message 9
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| Subject: | Folding wing troubles! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Paul,
First I would check wing wash and dihedral. The windshield typically has
a
lip in the aft corners so the wing will go under... If one was to heat this
area and flatten out the lip (some do) it will hit the wing when folding.
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Paul Seehafer
Subject: Kitfox-List: Folding wing troubles!
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
Ok guys, another problem I don't know what to do about.
I'm having wing folding issues with my long wing Model IV-1200.
I bought the airplane complete, but it was in need of a lot of TLC. The
wings would only fold partly when I purchased it due to the inboard flaperon
counterweights hitting the top of the fuselage. So I just removed them to
trailer the airplane home. But after repositioning the weights and trying
to fold the wings again yesterday, I realize there are a lot of other
issues.
1- The flaperon inboard weights still hit the top of the fuselage even after
I repositioned them per the manual. So it looks like I have to move them
further outboard to something like 80 and 83 inches (vs the 85 and 89 inches
the manual states). But I'm concerned about aerodynamic balancing? Or is
that no big deal? (I have 2 weights per wing)
2- I can't attach the wing hold down rods that are used to hold the wings in
place when trailering because the flaperon is in the way. With the flaperon
pivoted 90 degrees it positions the flaperon right between where the
attachment rod would need to go from the clip on the wing strut to the
flattened tube bolt connection on the bottom of the vertical fin. To make
it work I would literally have to make a hole in the flaperon for the rod to
go through it, which I obviously don't want to do. So I currently have no
way to secure the wing for trailering. (My Kitfox has 10 inch wide
flaperons fwiw) Is there a different hold down rod used whenever you have
the 10 inch flaperons?
3- When the wings are folded the back corners of the windshield (the part
that overhangs and secures the turtledeck cover) bends and gouges into the
top of the wing. Fwiw, I have a 1 inch overhang of glass from the center of
the rear spar attach bolt, (and 1/2 inch on the sides from the edge of the
butt rib) The windshield is LP Aero plexiglass. I would anticipate having
to round the back corners of the windshield, and possibly tapering the
overhang close to the corner too, in order to clear the top of the wing.
But that is just my initial idea.
4- The flaperons just barely clear the top of the horizontal stabilizer,
scuffing it as they swing back (I have the ribbed horizontal tailfeathers).
Not a real big deal as I can hold up pressure on the wing as I fold it back,
but the flaperon rests against the inboard horizontal stabilizer fabric when
folded up, and could possibly damage something if trailered this way. This
just doesn't seem right.
So, has anyone else had any of these problems??? I find it hard to believe
it was engineered this way? But after looking at the manual and really
thinking about it, it appears it may have been? I've had four different
Avids in the past, and they all folded up easy as can be with none of these
issues. Am I missing something? Are there a few tricks or tips I need to
be aware of? Is this just because of the wide flaperons? If so, I
certainly can't be alone. Any advice, suggestions, or experiences would be
appreciated. Thanks.
Paul Seehafer
Model IV-1200 (basically a long-wing speedster)
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Folding wing troubles! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Hi Paul-
I've got the Speedster version of the IV-1200, with 10" flaperons, but
with just the two weights...one per wing, as was done on the earlier
models, I'm told.
Item 1: I have the single weight per flap as was supplied in the
earlier kits.
Items 2 and 4: I had to bend the right-hand rod about 3" out from the
fuse attach point to clear the flaperon. The flaperon clears the hort.
stab by 1/2", and I have the ribbed hort. stab as well.
Item 3: I too have the LP Aeroplastics windshield/skylight, and like
others, had to bend the corner of the rear section upwards to clear the
folded wing. My dimensions are 5/8" hanging over the wing at the butt
rib, and about 3/4" hanging out back, nearly the same as yours. What I
did and have seen others do (pictures on request) is to heat and bend
the corner up slightly as to provide clearance for the folded wing. I
just installed my windshield, and the wings were folded, so this had to
be done at that point rather than discover it at a later date...when
first folding the wings. The bend is about 1 and 1/2" along each
side...in other words the bend resembles a 45 degree triangle with 1
and 1/2" sides adjacent to the 90 degree corner. The bend will raise
that corner about 3/4". When I first saw some planes with this bend, I
thought it was to clear a wrench for the spar bolt...now I know what
it's for.
Just as an aside, the (perhaps) differing heights when the wings are
folded, is the result of manufacturing differences in the placement of
the strut attach points, etc., making each wing fold to different
heights...a 1/16" different strut bracket position is a bunch when
measured out 144", which my wings are. It could also be errors in the
strut attach bracket on the wing, but the bottom line is if the
dihedral is correct and equal, all else is irrelevant...I think. : )
Lynn
p.s. holler if you want to see pictures of mine or another
On Thursday, August 25, 2005, at 10:25 AM, Paul Seehafer wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
>
> Ok guys, another problem I don't know what to do about.
>
> I'm having wing folding issues with my long wing Model IV-1200.
>
> I bought the airplane complete, but it was in need of a lot of TLC.
> The
> wings would only fold partly when I purchased it due to the inboard
> flaperon
> counterweights hitting the top of the fuselage. So I just removed
> them to
> trailer the airplane home. But after repositioning the weights and
> trying
> to fold the wings again yesterday, I realize there are a lot of other
> issues.
>
> 1- The flaperon inboard weights still hit the top of the fuselage even
> after
> I repositioned them per the manual. So it looks like I have to move
> them
> further outboard to something like 80 and 83 inches (vs the 85 and 89
> inches
> the manual states). But I'm concerned about aerodynamic balancing?
> Or is
> that no big deal? (I have 2 weights per wing)
>
> 2- I can't attach the wing hold down rods that are used to hold the
> wings in
> place when trailering because the flaperon is in the way. With the
> flaperon
> pivoted 90 degrees it positions the flaperon right between where the
> attachment rod would need to go from the clip on the wing strut to the
> flattened tube bolt connection on the bottom of the vertical fin. To
> make
> it work I would literally have to make a hole in the flaperon for the
> rod to
> go through it, which I obviously don't want to do. So I currently
> have no
> way to secure the wing for trailering. (My Kitfox has 10 inch wide
> flaperons fwiw) Is there a different hold down rod used whenever you
> have
> the 10 inch flaperons?
>
> 3- When the wings are folded the back corners of the windshield (the
> part
> that overhangs and secures the turtledeck cover) bends and gouges into
> the
> top of the wing. Fwiw, I have a 1 inch overhang of glass from the
> center of
> the rear spar attach bolt, (and 1/2 inch on the sides from the edge of
> the
> butt rib) The windshield is LP Aero plexiglass. I would anticipate
> having
> to round the back corners of the windshield, and possibly tapering the
> overhang close to the corner too, in order to clear the top of the
> wing.
> But that is just my initial idea.
>
> 4- The flaperons just barely clear the top of the horizontal
> stabilizer,
> scuffing it as they swing back (I have the ribbed horizontal
> tailfeathers).
> Not a real big deal as I can hold up pressure on the wing as I fold it
> back,
> but the flaperon rests against the inboard horizontal stabilizer
> fabric when
> folded up, and could possibly damage something if trailered this way.
> This
> just doesn't seem right.
>
> So, has anyone else had any of these problems??? I find it hard to
> believe
> it was engineered this way? But after looking at the manual and really
> thinking about it, it appears it may have been? I've had four
> different
> Avids in the past, and they all folded up easy as can be with none of
> these
> issues. Am I missing something? Are there a few tricks or tips I
> need to
> be aware of? Is this just because of the wide flaperons? If so, I
> certainly can't be alone. Any advice, suggestions, or experiences
> would be
> appreciated. Thanks.
>
> Paul Seehafer
> Model IV-1200 (basically a long-wing speedster)
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Folding wing troubles! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
Paul,
Two weights?? I have a long wing 4-1200 and have
always only had 1 per wing per Skystar instructions.
The speedster with the split flaperons used 2 if I
remember correctly.
When folded, your flaperons should clear the horiz
stab by at least an inch or so. Is your dihedral
correct (ie, are the strut to spar brackets in the
right places)? Sounds like the wings are sitting low.
Only other thing could be the strut carrythru
weldment setting a little forward but that's pretty
unlikely.
Regards,
Ted
--- Original Message ---
From: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Folding wing troubles!
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer"
<av8rps@tznet.com>
>
>Ok guys, another problem I don't know what to do
about.
>
>I'm having wing folding issues with my long wing
Model IV-1200.
>
>I bought the airplane complete, but it was in need
of a lot of TLC. The
>wings would only fold partly when I purchased it due
to the inboard flaperon
>counterweights hitting the top of the fuselage. So
I just removed them to
>trailer the airplane home. But after repositioning
the weights and trying
>to fold the wings again yesterday, I realize there
are a lot of other
>issues.
>
>1- The flaperon inboard weights still hit the top of
the fuselage even after
>I repositioned them per the manual. So it looks
like I have to move them
>further outboard to something like 80 and 83 inches
(vs the 85 and 89 inches
>the manual states). But I'm concerned about
aerodynamic balancing? Or is
>that no big deal? (I have 2 weights per wing)
>
>2- I can't attach the wing hold down rods that are
used to hold the wings in
>place when trailering because the flaperon is in the
way. With the flaperon
>pivoted 90 degrees it positions the flaperon right
between where the
>attachment rod would need to go from the clip on the
wing strut to the
>flattened tube bolt connection on the bottom of the
vertical fin. To make
>it work I would literally have to make a hole in the
flaperon for the rod to
>go through it, which I obviously don't want to do.
So I currently have no
>way to secure the wing for trailering. (My Kitfox
has 10 inch wide
>flaperons fwiw) Is there a different hold down rod
used whenever you have
>the 10 inch flaperons?
>
>3- When the wings are folded the back corners of the
windshield (the part
>that overhangs and secures the turtledeck cover)
bends and gouges into the
>top of the wing. Fwiw, I have a 1 inch overhang of
glass from the center of
>the rear spar attach bolt, (and 1/2 inch on the
sides from the edge of the
>butt rib) The windshield is LP Aero plexiglass. I
would anticipate having
>to round the back corners of the windshield, and
possibly tapering the
>overhang close to the corner too, in order to clear
the top of the wing.
>But that is just my initial idea.
>
>4- The flaperons just barely clear the top of the
horizontal stabilizer,
>scuffing it as they swing back (I have the ribbed
horizontal tailfeathers).
>Not a real big deal as I can hold up pressure on the
wing as I fold it back,
>but the flaperon rests against the inboard
horizontal stabilizer fabric when
>folded up, and could possibly damage something if
trailered this way. This
>just doesn't seem right.
>
>So, has anyone else had any of these problems??? I
find it hard to believe
>it was engineered this way? But after looking at
the manual and really
>thinking about it, it appears it may have been?
I've had four different
>Avids in the past, and they all folded up easy as
can be with none of these
>issues. Am I missing something? Are there a few
tricks or tips I need to
>be aware of? Is this just because of the wide
flaperons? If so, I
>certainly can't be alone. Any advice, suggestions,
or experiences would be
>appreciated. Thanks.
>
>Paul Seehafer
>Model IV-1200 (basically a long-wing speedster)
>
>
>_-
======================================================
======
browse
Subscriptions page,
FAQ,
List
>_-
======================================================
======
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Folding wing troubles! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Just to provide fodder for further thought, John, my 1994 manual shows
one weight for the IV-1200, and two for the Speedster (per wing), while
a later 2003 manual shows the two weights only. Does anybody know which
came first...does anybody care? : )
Lynn
On Thursday, August 25, 2005, at 10:44 AM, kerrjohna@comcast.net wrote:
> Also, I believe the dual counterweights were discontinued after the
> flaperons were changed to one-piece.
>
> Hope this helps,
> John Kerr
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: wing tanks/ethynol |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds <jareds@verizon.net>
My tanks are brown inside so i assume no Kreme???
Should i consider putting kreme in and are any other people comfortable
running ethynol?
Now that i am here in the midwest i'ts getting impossible to find gas
without it? Definitely cheaper and i get bullk rate if i would choose
to get eth.
Jim Crowder wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Crowder <jimlc@att.net>
>
>My tanks were flushed with acetone and NOT sloshed with any
>sealer. Three years with both auto fuel (with alcohol) and 100LL
>aviation fuel the past year and no leaks in the tanks. I did have
>the clear tubing for sight gauges fail at connections. I replaced
>this tubing with clear vinyl fuel line from auto supply store and it
>has worked with no problem or discoloration for a year. It has
>mostly sat in the hangar with only a couple of flights as I have too
>many projects going on. Retired life is hell.
>
>Jim Crowder
>
>At 10:26 AM 8/24/2005, you wrote:
>
>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>>
>>Per Frank Miller @ Skystar, I flushed mine with acetone, DID NOT rinse
>>with water, and sloshed with Kreem. The acetone is compatible with the
>>Kreem, and water isn't. If you don't dry the water out COMPLETELY,
>>you'll have some areas where the Kreem won't stick or worse. Mine were
>>also 10-12 years old, and Frank said this method should be done. You're
>>lucky, you had not installed your tanks yet...what fun, sloshing tanks
>>alone, inside of a 12 ft long wing, inside the garage, in the
>>winter....wear breathing protection, or do outside.
>>
>>Lynn
>>On Wednesday, August 24, 2005, at 11:24 AM, jim cantrell wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jim cantrell <jcant1@direcway.com>
>>>
>>>I have new 10 year old tanks that I have removed old kreem with
>>>acetone and flushed with water, I can not find any leaks after testing
>>>as per manual, question is, to reseal or install as is?
>>>Jim Cantrell
>>>Series 5 TD
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Folding wing troubles! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Chenoweth" <chenoweth@gwi.net>
Paul,
On my plane one wing folds low enough that I had to bend the hold down rod
on that side to clear the flaperon. I'm not at all sure how this happened
but clearly the geometry is different from side to side. That is, the pivot
bolt is not at the same angle to the wing on each side. I don't think it
was a SkyStar manufacturing problem - rather I think I had something not
right when I drilled the spars-to-carry thru holes.
Bill
IV-1200
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Folding wing troubles!
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
>
> Ok guys, another problem I don't know what to do about.
>
> I'm having wing folding issues with my long wing Model IV-1200.
>
> I bought the airplane complete, but it was in need of a lot of TLC. The
> wings would only fold partly when I purchased it due to the inboard
flaperon
> counterweights hitting the top of the fuselage. So I just removed them to
> trailer the airplane home. But after repositioning the weights and trying
> to fold the wings again yesterday, I realize there are a lot of other
> issues.
>
> 1- The flaperon inboard weights still hit the top of the fuselage even
after
> I repositioned them per the manual. So it looks like I have to move them
> further outboard to something like 80 and 83 inches (vs the 85 and 89
inches
> the manual states). But I'm concerned about aerodynamic balancing? Or is
> that no big deal? (I have 2 weights per wing)
>
> 2- I can't attach the wing hold down rods that are used to hold the wings
in
> place when trailering because the flaperon is in the way. With the
flaperon
> pivoted 90 degrees it positions the flaperon right between where the
> attachment rod would need to go from the clip on the wing strut to the
> flattened tube bolt connection on the bottom of the vertical fin. To make
> it work I would literally have to make a hole in the flaperon for the rod
to
> go through it, which I obviously don't want to do. So I currently have no
> way to secure the wing for trailering. (My Kitfox has 10 inch wide
> flaperons fwiw) Is there a different hold down rod used whenever you have
> the 10 inch flaperons?
>
> 3- When the wings are folded the back corners of the windshield (the part
> that overhangs and secures the turtledeck cover) bends and gouges into the
> top of the wing. Fwiw, I have a 1 inch overhang of glass from the center
of
> the rear spar attach bolt, (and 1/2 inch on the sides from the edge of the
> butt rib) The windshield is LP Aero plexiglass. I would anticipate
having
> to round the back corners of the windshield, and possibly tapering the
> overhang close to the corner too, in order to clear the top of the wing.
> But that is just my initial idea.
>
> 4- The flaperons just barely clear the top of the horizontal stabilizer,
> scuffing it as they swing back (I have the ribbed horizontal
tailfeathers).
> Not a real big deal as I can hold up pressure on the wing as I fold it
back,
> but the flaperon rests against the inboard horizontal stabilizer fabric
when
> folded up, and could possibly damage something if trailered this way.
This
> just doesn't seem right.
>
> So, has anyone else had any of these problems??? I find it hard to
believe
> it was engineered this way? But after looking at the manual and really
> thinking about it, it appears it may have been? I've had four different
> Avids in the past, and they all folded up easy as can be with none of
these
> issues. Am I missing something? Are there a few tricks or tips I need to
> be aware of? Is this just because of the wide flaperons? If so, I
> certainly can't be alone. Any advice, suggestions, or experiences would
be
> appreciated. Thanks.
>
> Paul Seehafer
> Model IV-1200 (basically a long-wing speedster)
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Folding wing troubles! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" <n93hj@numail.org>
I have '95 production Classic IV w/ all the go fast mods and it came w/ 2
weights per.
Brett
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> Just to provide fodder for further thought, John, my 1994 manual shows
> one weight for the IV-1200, and two for the Speedster (per wing), while
> a later 2003 manual shows the two weights only. Does anybody know which
> came first...does anybody care? : )
>
> Lynn
>
> On Thursday, August 25, 2005, at 10:44 AM, kerrjohna@comcast.net wrote:
>> Also, I believe the dual counterweights were discontinued after the
>> flaperons were changed to one-piece.
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>> John Kerr
>
>
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Re: wing tanks/ethynol |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Perry" <eskflyer@pld.com>
not to sound to crass about this subject but . WHAT DOES THE ENGINE
MANUFACTURER SAY AND THE DESIGNER OF THE TANK. no alcohol . Why would anyone
want to risk there life on running E10 in there aircraft when it has rubber
fuel lines and rubber gaskets and rubber seals that the alcohol eats up .
So my answer is DO NOT RUN ALCOHOL .
Of course this is only my opinion and no one made me say this .
I can no longer get any premium fuel in our county so am running 100ll.and
have had absolutely no problems. I talked to LOCKWOOD AVIATION and they said
100ll is fine just no ALCOHOL.
John Perry
kitfox 2 N718PD
582 c box ivo inflight 68 inch 2 blade
-------Original Message-------
From: jareds
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: wing tanks/ethynol
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds <jareds@verizon.net>
My tanks are brown inside so i assume no Kreme???
Should i consider putting kreme in and are any other people comfortable
running ethynol?
Now that i am here in the midwest i'ts getting impossible to find gas
without it? Definitely cheaper and i get bullk rate if i would choose
to get eth.
Jim Crowder wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Crowder <jimlc@att.net>
>
>My tanks were flushed with acetone and NOT sloshed with any
>sealer. Three years with both auto fuel (with alcohol) and 100LL
>aviation fuel the past year and no leaks in the tanks. I did have
>the clear tubing for sight gauges fail at connections. I replaced
>this tubing with clear vinyl fuel line from auto supply store and it
>has worked with no problem or discoloration for a year. It has
>mostly sat in the hangar with only a couple of flights as I have too
>many projects going on. Retired life is hell.
>
>Jim Crowder
>
>At 10:26 AM 8/24/2005, you wrote:
>
>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>>
>>Per Frank Miller @ Skystar, I flushed mine with acetone, DID NOT rinse
>>with water, and sloshed with Kreem. The acetone is compatible with the
>>Kreem, and water isn't. If you don't dry the water out COMPLETELY,
>>you'll have some areas where the Kreem won't stick or worse. Mine were
>>also 10-12 years old, and Frank said this method should be done. You're
>>lucky, you had not installed your tanks yet...what fun, sloshing tanks
>>alone, inside of a 12 ft long wing, inside the garage, in the
>>winter....wear breathing protection, or do outside.
>>
>>Lynn
>>On Wednesday, August 24, 2005, at 11:24 AM, jim cantrell wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jim cantrell <jcant1@direcway.com>
>>>
>>>I have new 10 year old tanks that I have removed old kreem with
>>>acetone and flushed with water, I can not find any leaks after testing
>>>as per manual, question is, to reseal or install as is?
>>>Jim Cantrell
>>>Series 5 TD
>>>
>>>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: wing tanks/ethynol |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
I use regualr gas for years in 503 582s 87 octane is what pump says.
100 LL will foul your plugs more plus put lead residue into bearings
which is not good.
If won't hurt to run 100 LL occasionly But i would not make it my
first choice.
Ethanol -- i heard of guys running it and had their fuel filter clog
up with what ever the ethanol disovled from fuel sysytem.
needless to say a forced landing is what happened to them next.
Av gas will hold it's octance longer than auto gas but hey i don;t
think that rotax 2 strokes beneift from it.
Ask a Rotax guy like Bob Robertson to make sure though.
Kirby
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Perry" <eskflyer@pld.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: wing tanks/ethynol
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Perry" <eskflyer@pld.com>
>
> not to sound to crass about this subject but . WHAT DOES THE ENGINE
> MANUFACTURER SAY AND THE DESIGNER OF THE TANK. no alcohol . Why would
anyone
> want to risk there life on running E10 in there aircraft when it has
rubber
> fuel lines and rubber gaskets and rubber seals that the alcohol eats
up .
> So my answer is DO NOT RUN ALCOHOL .
> Of course this is only my opinion and no one made me say this .
> I can no longer get any premium fuel in our county so am running
100ll.and
> have had absolutely no problems. I talked to LOCKWOOD AVIATION and
they said
> 100ll is fine just no ALCOHOL.
>
> John Perry
> kitfox 2 N718PD
> 582 c box ivo inflight 68 inch 2 blade
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: wing tanks/ethynol |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: PWilson <pwilson@climber.org>
John McBean,
Have you heard if Frank has got the poly tanks in production yet?
Regards, Paul
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Folding wing troubles! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: PWilson <pwilson@climber.org>
My M4-1200 was one of the last made and has one per side.
Paul
===============
At 09:43 AM 8/25/2005, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
>Just to provide fodder for further thought, John, my 1994 manual shows
>one weight for the IV-1200, and two for the Speedster (per wing), while
>a later 2003 manual shows the two weights only. Does anybody know which
>came first...does anybody care? : )
>
>Lynn
>
>On Thursday, August 25, 2005, at 10:44 AM, kerrjohna@comcast.net wrote:
> > Also, I believe the dual counterweights were discontinued after the
> > flaperons were changed to one-piece.
> >
> > Hope this helps,
> > John Kerr
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Folding wing troubles! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: PWilson <pwilson@climber.org>
Paul,
I only had the problem of the clearance between the ribbed vertical
and the flap. I fabricated an extension for the tabs on the vertical
that engage the rod that holds up the wing to get the clearance I
desired.. Mine has built had clearance with the horizontal. One wing
is close but with the rods installed I have adequate
clearance. Holler if you need a pic of the fabed extension.
All this is required because with the Speedster ribs Skystar uses a
different attachment at the vertical for the subject rod and it
compensates fro the extra vertical thickness.
I have the weights installed per the long wing specs. One per side.
Regards, Paul, M4-1200 long wing all Speedster options.
=================
At 08:25 AM 8/25/2005, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
>
>Ok guys, another problem I don't know what to do about.
>
>I'm having wing folding issues with my long wing Model IV-1200.
>
>I bought the airplane complete, but it was in need of a lot of TLC. The
>wings would only fold partly when I purchased it due to the inboard flaperon
>counterweights hitting the top of the fuselage. So I just removed them to
>trailer the airplane home. But after repositioning the weights and trying
>to fold the wings again yesterday, I realize there are a lot of other
>issues.
>
>1- The flaperon inboard weights still hit the top of the fuselage even after
>I repositioned them per the manual. So it looks like I have to move them
>further outboard to something like 80 and 83 inches (vs the 85 and 89 inches
>the manual states). But I'm concerned about aerodynamic balancing? Or is
>that no big deal? (I have 2 weights per wing)
>
>2- I can't attach the wing hold down rods that are used to hold the wings in
>place when trailering because the flaperon is in the way. With the flaperon
>pivoted 90 degrees it positions the flaperon right between where the
>attachment rod would need to go from the clip on the wing strut to the
>flattened tube bolt connection on the bottom of the vertical fin. To make
>it work I would literally have to make a hole in the flaperon for the rod to
>go through it, which I obviously don't want to do. So I currently have no
>way to secure the wing for trailering. (My Kitfox has 10 inch wide
>flaperons fwiw) Is there a different hold down rod used whenever you have
>the 10 inch flaperons?
>
>3- When the wings are folded the back corners of the windshield (the part
>that overhangs and secures the turtledeck cover) bends and gouges into the
>top of the wing. Fwiw, I have a 1 inch overhang of glass from the center of
>the rear spar attach bolt, (and 1/2 inch on the sides from the edge of the
>butt rib) The windshield is LP Aero plexiglass. I would anticipate having
>to round the back corners of the windshield, and possibly tapering the
>overhang close to the corner too, in order to clear the top of the wing.
>But that is just my initial idea.
>
>4- The flaperons just barely clear the top of the horizontal stabilizer,
>scuffing it as they swing back (I have the ribbed horizontal tailfeathers).
>Not a real big deal as I can hold up pressure on the wing as I fold it back,
>but the flaperon rests against the inboard horizontal stabilizer fabric when
>folded up, and could possibly damage something if trailered this way. This
>just doesn't seem right.
>
>So, has anyone else had any of these problems??? I find it hard to believe
>it was engineered this way? But after looking at the manual and really
>thinking about it, it appears it may have been? I've had four different
>Avids in the past, and they all folded up easy as can be with none of these
>issues. Am I missing something? Are there a few tricks or tips I need to
>be aware of? Is this just because of the wide flaperons? If so, I
>certainly can't be alone. Any advice, suggestions, or experiences would be
>appreciated. Thanks.
>
>Paul Seehafer
>Model IV-1200 (basically a long-wing speedster)
>
>
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | Folding wing troubles! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: PWilson <pwilson@climber.org>
Ah yes Dihedral. Enough said.
Private joke. I had lots of dihedral issues. And now I hate the
subject. However, after much frustration I am now happy. If Paul's
plane has the speedster dihedral (0 deg) then he should adjust it for
1 deg - for sure. Solves a lot of issues.
Regards, Paul
Good comment John
===============
At 09:21 AM 8/25/2005, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
>
>Paul,
> First I would check wing wash and dihedral. The windshield
> typically has a
>lip in the aft corners so the wing will go under... If one was to heat this
>area and flatten out the lip (some do) it will hit the wing when folding.
>
>Fly Safe !!
>John & Debra McBean
>www.sportplanellc.com
>"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Paul Seehafer
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Folding wing troubles!
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
>
>Ok guys, another problem I don't know what to do about.
>
>I'm having wing folding issues with my long wing Model IV-1200.
>
>I bought the airplane complete, but it was in need of a lot of TLC. The
>wings would only fold partly when I purchased it due to the inboard flaperon
>counterweights hitting the top of the fuselage. So I just removed them to
>trailer the airplane home. But after repositioning the weights and trying
>to fold the wings again yesterday, I realize there are a lot of other
>issues.
>
>1- The flaperon inboard weights still hit the top of the fuselage even after
>I repositioned them per the manual. So it looks like I have to move them
>further outboard to something like 80 and 83 inches (vs the 85 and 89 inches
>the manual states). But I'm concerned about aerodynamic balancing? Or is
>that no big deal? (I have 2 weights per wing)
>
>2- I can't attach the wing hold down rods that are used to hold the wings in
>place when trailering because the flaperon is in the way. With the flaperon
>pivoted 90 degrees it positions the flaperon right between where the
>attachment rod would need to go from the clip on the wing strut to the
>flattened tube bolt connection on the bottom of the vertical fin. To make
>it work I would literally have to make a hole in the flaperon for the rod to
>go through it, which I obviously don't want to do. So I currently have no
>way to secure the wing for trailering. (My Kitfox has 10 inch wide
>flaperons fwiw) Is there a different hold down rod used whenever you have
>the 10 inch flaperons?
>
>3- When the wings are folded the back corners of the windshield (the part
>that overhangs and secures the turtledeck cover) bends and gouges into the
>top of the wing. Fwiw, I have a 1 inch overhang of glass from the center of
>the rear spar attach bolt, (and 1/2 inch on the sides from the edge of the
>butt rib) The windshield is LP Aero plexiglass. I would anticipate having
>to round the back corners of the windshield, and possibly tapering the
>overhang close to the corner too, in order to clear the top of the wing.
>But that is just my initial idea.
>
>4- The flaperons just barely clear the top of the horizontal stabilizer,
>scuffing it as they swing back (I have the ribbed horizontal tailfeathers).
>Not a real big deal as I can hold up pressure on the wing as I fold it back,
>but the flaperon rests against the inboard horizontal stabilizer fabric when
>folded up, and could possibly damage something if trailered this way. This
>just doesn't seem right.
>
>So, has anyone else had any of these problems??? I find it hard to believe
>it was engineered this way? But after looking at the manual and really
>thinking about it, it appears it may have been? I've had four different
>Avids in the past, and they all folded up easy as can be with none of these
>issues. Am I missing something? Are there a few tricks or tips I need to
>be aware of? Is this just because of the wide flaperons? If so, I
>certainly can't be alone. Any advice, suggestions, or experiences would be
>appreciated. Thanks.
>
>Paul Seehafer
>Model IV-1200 (basically a long-wing speedster)
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | wing tanks/ethynol |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Last I knew.. No. I believe they are still using the fiberglass tanks.
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of PWilson
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: wing tanks/ethynol
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: PWilson <pwilson@climber.org>
John McBean,
Have you heard if Frank has got the poly tanks in production yet?
Regards, Paul
Message 23
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| Subject: | Folding wing troubles! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
2 weights.. one per side came first.. then 2 per side. Currently 2 per side
is what is used. I do not believe the larger single weight is available
anymore.
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Folding wing troubles!
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Just to provide fodder for further thought, John, my 1994 manual shows
one weight for the IV-1200, and two for the Speedster (per wing), while
a later 2003 manual shows the two weights only. Does anybody know which
came first...does anybody care? : )
Lynn
On Thursday, August 25, 2005, at 10:44 AM, kerrjohna@comcast.net wrote:
> Also, I believe the dual counterweights were discontinued after the
> flaperons were changed to one-piece.
>
> Hope this helps,
> John Kerr
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Return Springs |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Most of the f/wing a/c I've flown over the years have cable operated
controls all over, good but must be well maintained then no bother.
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Return Springs
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
I slept on this idea last night, Michel, and I just cringed at the
thought of using a choke-type cable and housing for a rudder control.
It just seemed too stiff and not of the right material. I know that you
know of boating material that might be suited to this application, but
that sounds like a cable and housing, and we're right back where we
started, it seems.
Lynn
On Wednesday, August 24, 2005, at 05:32 PM, Michel Verheughe wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>
>Lynn Matteson wrote:
>>Wouldn't have to be,Michel....it could be like model planes do and
>>have
>>a long rod (like the elevator on the Kitfox) actuate a horn on the
>>side
>>of the rudder, but a lot of model guys (me included) like the idea of
>>pull-pulls, and toss the rod and horn and use kevlar thread on their
>>models attached to two rudder horns, just like our 'foxes. The
>>geometry
>>gets a little involved sometimes, but no biggie.
>
>Of course, Lynn. But I was thinking about replacing the existing
>cables by thin
>rods in sleeves, like what we have as choke or carb heater controls.
>Not a
>thick rod like for the elevator. Wouldn't that remove the need for a
>return
>spring and prevent the fraying of the wire, as it happened for
>Johannes? Just wondering.
>
>Cheers,
>Michel
>
>
Need a new job? Check out XtraMSN Careers http://xtramsn.co.nz/careers
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re Landing gear bungy cords. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Marwynne" <marwynne@verizon.net>
I called Skystar and they were out of the bungy cords for the model 4. They
would not give me a delivery date.
Does anyone one know the diamater and the lenght of the bungy cords for a
model iv.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of randy
bortree
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re Landing gear bungy cords.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "randy bortree" <plane6013@earthlink.net>
Sky Star is out of Kit Fox 1 bungys for about two weeks
Randy
> [Original Message]
> From: John Perry <eskflyer@pld.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 8/18/2005 7:57:25 AM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re Landing gear bungy cords.
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Perry" <eskflyer@pld.com>
>
> YEAH CALL SKYSTAR AND ORDER A NEW SET
> John Perry
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: ROBERT E SIMON
> Date: 08/18/05 00:28:38
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re Landing gear bungy cords.
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: ROBERT E SIMON <bigbob196@juno.com>
>
> Hi folks,
> I think that it is time to replace the landing gear cords on my model IV.
> Please advise.
>
>
> Bob Simon
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Bungee Cords Size and Length for a Model IV. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Marwynne" <marwynne@verizon.net>
Does anyone on the list have the Bungee Chord Size and lenth for a Model IV
Kitfox ?
Your advice would be apprecited.
I ordered a set for Skystar but they were out of stock. I am needing to
take a flight and am grounded. The cord covering have become frayed but
still seem to be functional. I would prefer to replace them .
-
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: wing tanks/ethynol |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brian Rodgers" <brodg@texas.net>
I understand that there are quite a few Brazilians burning ethAnol in
"there" planes risking "there" lives. Perhaps (I'm going out on a limb
here) they PREPARED "there" aircraft to use that fuel by eliminating fuel
system components which are not compatible with ethanol. There are A LOT of
materials which are not compatible with gasoline, so we don't use 'em in our
fuel systems.
Just select compatible materials.
Brian
----- Original Message -----
From: <kitfox@gto.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: wing tanks/ethynol
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
>
> I use regualr gas for years in 503 582s 87 octane is what pump says.
>
> 100 LL will foul your plugs more plus put lead residue into bearings
> which is not good.
> If won't hurt to run 100 LL occasionly But i would not make it my
> first choice.
>
> Ethanol -- i heard of guys running it and had their fuel filter clog
> up with what ever the ethanol disovled from fuel sysytem.
> needless to say a forced landing is what happened to them next.
>
> Av gas will hold it's octance longer than auto gas but hey i don;t
> think that rotax 2 strokes beneift from it.
> Ask a Rotax guy like Bob Robertson to make sure though.
>
>
> Kirby
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Perry" <eskflyer@pld.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: wing tanks/ethynol
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Perry" <eskflyer@pld.com>
> >
> > not to sound to crass about this subject but . WHAT DOES THE ENGINE
> > MANUFACTURER SAY AND THE DESIGNER OF THE TANK. no alcohol . Why would
> anyone
> > want to risk there life on running E10 in there aircraft when it has
> rubber
> > fuel lines and rubber gaskets and rubber seals that the alcohol eats
> up .
> > So my answer is DO NOT RUN ALCOHOL .
> > Of course this is only my opinion and no one made me say this .
> > I can no longer get any premium fuel in our county so am running
> 100ll.and
> > have had absolutely no problems. I talked to LOCKWOOD AVIATION and
> they said
> > 100ll is fine just no ALCOHOL.
> >
> > John Perry
> > kitfox 2 N718PD
> > 582 c box ivo inflight 68 inch 2 blade
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Float Rigging...if you have floats have a look |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "daniel johnson" <kitfox91je@hotmail.com>
HI all.
For those of you with floats, i could still really use some measurements to
get me in the ballpark on my installation. After talking with skystar i'm
aware i'm going to have to make up my rigging and make adjustments after i
see results. I've got some solid methods on some measurements, but will
have to see what is average for others.
I am aware so far that
1) Aircraft CG is to be ahead of step by 1/3 the width of float at widest
point.
Several good sources on this one.
2) Top line of the float should be mounted approx 5-7 degrees angle to wing
chordline...skystar uses shims during float testing to fine tune
performance. (Tail Low)
3) Spreader bars are approx 64" between floats. This is based on Full
Lotus. My avid floats will have original spreader bars intact, so this wont
be much of a problem.
4) SKystar gave me a very rough estimate of approx 2 feet between float
topline and fuselage lower longeron....this might be a little low...would
REALLY APPRECIATE it someone could measure their setup on a kitfox 1-4 for
this diminsion.
5) I'm hoping to use original strut attach points based on avid float design
if they can be distinguished...where are your attach points
located.???..maybe relative to CG or step.
6)I'm going to be using streamline strut material...would like to know what
diameter/wall thickness is common of anyone knows.
7) Lastly...any photos of water rudder rigging?" (cables/pulley location
etc...i have dual rudders)
I've asked a lot of questions here, i know. Hope some of you can give me a
ballpark idea based on your installations.
Thanks, Dan Johnson
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: wing tanks/ethynol |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 10:21 AM 8/25/2005, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net
>
>I use regualr gas for years in 503 582s 87 octane is what pump says.
I'm curious. How do you run auto gas? Is it available at your airport? Or
do you cart it in to fill the Kit? I'm going to store mine at the airport.
I don't believe I have much of a choice beyond 100LL. If I fly around and
fill up at airports here and there, will I have a choice beyond 100LL and
Jet-A?
>100 LL will foul your plugs more plus put lead residue into bearings
>which is not good.
>If won't hurt to run 100 LL occasionly But i would not make it my
>first choice.
...
>Kirby
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
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