---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 08/25/05: 29 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:35 AM - Re: Return Springs (Lynn Matteson) 2. 05:00 AM - SV: Return Springs (Michel Verheughe) 3. 06:03 AM - Re: SV: Return Springs (Lynn Matteson) 4. 06:42 AM - Re: SV: Return Springs (skyflyte@comcast.net) 5. 07:12 AM - Re: SV: Return Springs (kitfox@gto.net) 6. 07:25 AM - Folding wing troubles! (Paul Seehafer) 7. 07:44 AM - Re: Folding wing troubles! (kerrjohna@comcast.net) 8. 08:12 AM - Re: Vortex Generators (jdmcbean) 9. 08:21 AM - Re: Folding wing troubles! (jdmcbean) 10. 08:29 AM - Re: Folding wing troubles! (Lynn Matteson) 11. 08:37 AM - Re: Folding wing troubles! (flier) 12. 08:42 AM - Re: Folding wing troubles! (Lynn Matteson) 13. 09:07 AM - Re: wing tanks/ethynol (jareds) 14. 09:10 AM - Re: Folding wing troubles! (Chenoweth) 15. 09:59 AM - Re: Folding wing troubles! (Brett Walmsley) 16. 10:04 AM - Re: wing tanks/ethynol (John Perry) 17. 10:21 AM - Re: wing tanks/ethynol (kitfox@gto.net) 18. 12:52 PM - Re: wing tanks/ethynol (PWilson) 19. 12:52 PM - Re: Folding wing troubles! (PWilson) 20. 12:52 PM - Re: Folding wing troubles! (PWilson) 21. 12:52 PM - Re: Folding wing troubles! (PWilson) 22. 12:58 PM - Re: wing tanks/ethynol (jdmcbean) 23. 12:58 PM - Re: Folding wing troubles! (jdmcbean) 24. 01:56 PM - Re: Return Springs (John Anderson) 25. 03:58 PM - Re: Re Landing gear bungy cords. (Marwynne) 26. 04:31 PM - Bungee Cords Size and Length for a Model IV. (Marwynne) 27. 04:42 PM - Re: wing tanks/ethynol (Brian Rodgers) 28. 06:32 PM - Float Rigging...if you have floats have a look (daniel johnson) 29. 10:54 PM - Re: wing tanks/ethynol (Guy Buchanan) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:35:39 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Return Springs From: Lynn Matteson --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson I slept on this idea last night, Michel, and I just cringed at the thought of using a choke-type cable and housing for a rudder control. It just seemed too stiff and not of the right material. I know that you know of boating material that might be suited to this application, but that sounds like a cable and housing, and we're right back where we started, it seems. Lynn On Wednesday, August 24, 2005, at 05:32 PM, Michel Verheughe wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > Lynn Matteson wrote: >> Wouldn't have to be,Michel....it could be like model planes do and >> have >> a long rod (like the elevator on the Kitfox) actuate a horn on the >> side >> of the rudder, but a lot of model guys (me included) like the idea of >> pull-pulls, and toss the rod and horn and use kevlar thread on their >> models attached to two rudder horns, just like our 'foxes. The >> geometry >> gets a little involved sometimes, but no biggie. > > Of course, Lynn. But I was thinking about replacing the existing > cables by thin > rods in sleeves, like what we have as choke or carb heater controls. > Not a > thick rod like for the elevator. Wouldn't that remove the need for a > return > spring and prevent the fraying of the wire, as it happened for > Johannes? Just wondering. > > Cheers, > Michel > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:00:59 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: Return Springs --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt@jps.net] > and we're right back where we started, it seems. You are certainly right, Lynn, and it would be extremely arrogant from my part to "invent" something that generations of fine airmen haven't been thinking about before. I just wanted to know why it was not such a good idea. My primary though was that solid rod was not subject to fraying as a cable. In any case, what happened to Johannes is apparently very rare and our Kitfoxes are good and safe planes. I do check, of course, the wires, at each preflight. Just a part of the routine. Of course, much of it is hiden in the plastic sleeve. But, if fraying happens, I think it will be at an end and not in the middle, right? Unless, of course, if the cable has been badly bend for some reason, like being caught in a bush, branches, obstacle. Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:03:55 AM PST US Subject: Re: SV: Kitfox-List: Return Springs From: Lynn Matteson --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson I agree, Michel, fraying, it would seem, WOULD occur somewhere other than inside the nylon tubes that we have in our Kitfoxes, which are very short. The cable is otherwise very visible and should be able to be inspected prior to each flight. Unless the cable is subjected to very tight deflections in its routing, going over a interfering obstacle, etc., I can't imagine what could cause a cable to fail...except for rust, corrosion, poor quality, etc. Lynn On Thursday, August 25, 2005, at 08:00 AM, Michel Verheughe wrote: > > But, if fraying happens, I think it will be at an end and not in the > middle, right? Unless, of course, if the cable has been badly bend for > some reason, like being caught in a bush, branches, obstacle. > > Cheers, > Michel > > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:42:09 AM PST US From: skyflyte@comcast.net Subject: Re: SV: Kitfox-List: Return Springs --> Kitfox-List message posted by: skyflyte@comcast.net The Lazair twin engine ultralight used 3/8" (I think) Al tubing to control the ruddavators. These tubes went through guides and made gentle turns as they went from the control stick to the control surfaces.I never heard of any problems with this arrangement. Mike do not archive The Lazair twin engine ultralight used 3/8" (I think) Al tubing to control the ruddavators. These tubes went through guides and made gentle turns as they went from the control stick to the control surfaces.I never heard of any problems with this arrangement. Mike do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:12:06 AM PST US Subject: Re: SV: Kitfox-List: Return Springs From: kitfox@gto.net --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net Hi, I have a lazair too and it has as Mike described that goes through a nylon busings from front of boom to tail. Works well and aloderones used 1/4 tubing. But on the Kitfox I not sure what all the fuss about. The cables are proven and do i read that the cable frayed in the tube under the seat? I look at mine and they fine. But that is part of every inspection checking rudder cables. I just put amphibs on my KF and i got extra cable on each side now to control water rudder. They are simular to a choke cable (braided steel through a plastic jacket) and they run to the tail of the floats. Makes the rudder a bit stiffer but hey what a blast. Kirby > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: skyflyte@comcast.net > > The Lazair twin engine ultralight used 3/8" (I think) Al tubing to control the ruddavators. These tubes went through guides and made gentle turns as they went from the control stick to the control surfaces.I never heard of any problems with this arrangement. > Mike > do not archive > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:25:55 AM PST US From: "Paul Seehafer" Subject: Kitfox-List: Folding wing troubles! --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" Ok guys, another problem I don't know what to do about. I'm having wing folding issues with my long wing Model IV-1200. I bought the airplane complete, but it was in need of a lot of TLC. The wings would only fold partly when I purchased it due to the inboard flaperon counterweights hitting the top of the fuselage. So I just removed them to trailer the airplane home. But after repositioning the weights and trying to fold the wings again yesterday, I realize there are a lot of other issues. 1- The flaperon inboard weights still hit the top of the fuselage even after I repositioned them per the manual. So it looks like I have to move them further outboard to something like 80 and 83 inches (vs the 85 and 89 inches the manual states). But I'm concerned about aerodynamic balancing? Or is that no big deal? (I have 2 weights per wing) 2- I can't attach the wing hold down rods that are used to hold the wings in place when trailering because the flaperon is in the way. With the flaperon pivoted 90 degrees it positions the flaperon right between where the attachment rod would need to go from the clip on the wing strut to the flattened tube bolt connection on the bottom of the vertical fin. To make it work I would literally have to make a hole in the flaperon for the rod to go through it, which I obviously don't want to do. So I currently have no way to secure the wing for trailering. (My Kitfox has 10 inch wide flaperons fwiw) Is there a different hold down rod used whenever you have the 10 inch flaperons? 3- When the wings are folded the back corners of the windshield (the part that overhangs and secures the turtledeck cover) bends and gouges into the top of the wing. Fwiw, I have a 1 inch overhang of glass from the center of the rear spar attach bolt, (and 1/2 inch on the sides from the edge of the butt rib) The windshield is LP Aero plexiglass. I would anticipate having to round the back corners of the windshield, and possibly tapering the overhang close to the corner too, in order to clear the top of the wing. But that is just my initial idea. 4- The flaperons just barely clear the top of the horizontal stabilizer, scuffing it as they swing back (I have the ribbed horizontal tailfeathers). Not a real big deal as I can hold up pressure on the wing as I fold it back, but the flaperon rests against the inboard horizontal stabilizer fabric when folded up, and could possibly damage something if trailered this way. This just doesn't seem right. So, has anyone else had any of these problems??? I find it hard to believe it was engineered this way? But after looking at the manual and really thinking about it, it appears it may have been? I've had four different Avids in the past, and they all folded up easy as can be with none of these issues. Am I missing something? Are there a few tricks or tips I need to be aware of? Is this just because of the wide flaperons? If so, I certainly can't be alone. Any advice, suggestions, or experiences would be appreciated. Thanks. Paul Seehafer Model IV-1200 (basically a long-wing speedster) ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:44:56 AM PST US From: kerrjohna@comcast.net Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Folding wing troubles! --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net Paul, have you heard of ganging tolerances. It sounds like you have the "Mother" of them all. Mine also is a IV-1200 and have not encountered the issues you are having. 1. Simetrical flaperons with single counter balance. 2. I did relieve the rear corners of the canopy to occomodate folding. A friend heated and formed a slight "lift" of the corners of his LP canopy. 3. The tie bars miss the flaperons when connecting from fuselage to tab on lift struct weldment. 4. The folded wings clear the horizontal without a problem. As I write this, picturing the geometry of the folding wing, it seems to me that the first place I would look would be the rigging. It is possible that a slight increase in dihedral will solve some of your problems. Also, I believe the dual counterweights were discontinued after the flaperons were changed to one-piece. Hope this helps, John Kerr -------------- Original message -------------- > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" > > Ok guys, another problem I don't know what to do about. > > I'm having wing folding issues with my long wing Model IV-1200. > > I bought the airplane complete, but it was in need of a lot of TLC. The > wings would only fold partly when I purchased it due to the inboard flaperon > counterweights hitting the top of the fuselage. So I just removed them to > trailer the airplane home. But after repositioning the weights and trying > to fold the wings again yesterday, I realize there are a lot of other > issues. > > 1- The flaperon inboard weights still hit the top of the fuselage even after > I repositioned them per the manual. So it looks like I have to move them > further outboard to something like 80 and 83 inches (vs the 85 and 89 inches > the manual states). But I'm concerned about aerodynamic balancing? Or is > that no big deal? (I have 2 weights per wing) > > 2- I can't attach the wing hold down rods that are used to hold the wings in > place when trailering because the flaperon is in the way. With the flaperon > pivoted 90 degrees it positions the flaperon right between where the > attachment rod would need to go from the clip on the wing strut to the > flattened tube bolt connection on the bottom of the vertical fin. To make > it work I would literally have to make a hole in the flaperon for the rod to > go through it, which I obviously don't want to do. So I currently have no > way to secure the wing for trailering. (My Kitfox has 10 inch wide > flaperons fwiw) Is there a different hold down rod used whenever you have > the 10 inch flaperons? > > 3- When the wings are folded the back corners of the windshield (the part > that overhangs and secures the turtledeck cover) bends and gouges into the > top of the wing. Fwiw, I have a 1 inch overhang of glass from the center of > the rear spar attach bolt, (and 1/2 inch on the sides from the edge of the > butt rib) The windshield is LP Aero plexiglass. I would anticipate having > to round the back corners of the windshield, and possibly tapering the > overhang close to the corner too, in order to clear the top of the wing. > But that is just my initial idea. > > 4- The flaperons just barely clear the top of the horizontal stabilizer, > scuffing it as they swing back (I have the ribbed horizontal tailfeathers). > Not a real big deal as I can hold up pressure on the wing as I fold it back, > but the flaperon rests against the inboard horizontal stabilizer fabric when > folded up, and could possibly damage something if trailered this way. This > just doesn't seem right. > > So, has anyone else had any of these problems??? I find it hard to believe > it was engineered this way? But after looking at the manual and really > thinking about it, it appears it may have been? I've had four different > Avids in the past, and they all folded up easy as can be with none of these > issues. Am I missing something? Are there a few tricks or tips I need to > be aware of? Is this just because of the wide flaperons? If so, I > certainly can't be alone. Any advice, suggestions, or experiences would be > appreciated. Thanks. > > Paul Seehafer > Model IV-1200 (basically a long-wing speedster) > > > > > > Paul, have you heard of ganging tolerances. It sounds like you have the "Mother" of them all. Mine also is a IV-1200 and have not encountered the issues you are having. 1. Simetrical flaperons with single counter balance. 2. I did relieve the rear corners of the canopy to occomodate folding. A friend heated and formed a slight "lift" of the corners of his LP canopy. 3. The tie bars miss the flaperons when connecting from fuselage to tab on lift struct weldment. 4. The folded wings clear the horizontal without a problem. As I write this, picturing the geometry of the folding wing, it seems to me that the first place I would look would be the rigging. It is possible that a slight increase in dihedral will solve some of your problems. Also, I believe the dual counterweights were discontinued after the flaperons were changed to one-piece. Hope this helps, John Kerr -------------- Original message -------------- -- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" Ok guys, another problem I don't know what to do about. I'm having wing folding issues with my long wing Model IV-1200. I bought the airplane complete, but it was in need of a lot of TLC. The wings would only fold partly when I purchased it due to the inboard flaperon counterweights hitting the top of the fuselage. So I just removed them to trailer the airplane home. But after repositioning the weights and trying to fold the wings again yesterday, I realize there are a lot of other issues. 1- The flaperon inboard weights still hit the top of the fuselage even after I repositioned them per the manual. So it looks like I have to move them further outboard to something like 80 and 83 inches (vs the 85 and 89 inches the manual states). But I'm concerned about aerodynamic balancing? Or is that no big deal? (I have 2 weights per wing) 2- I can't attach the wing hold down rods that are used to hold the wings in place when trailering because the flaperon is in the way. With the flaperon pivoted 90 degrees it positions the flaperon right between where the attachment rod would need to go from the clip on the wing strut to the flattened tube bolt connection on the bottom of the vertical fin. To make it work I would literally have to make a hole in the flaperon for the rod to go through it, which I obviously don't want to do. So I currently have no way to secure the wing for trailering. (My Kitfox has 10 inch wide flaperons fwiw) Is there a different hold down rod used whenever you have the 10 inch flaperons? 3- When the wings are folded the back corners of the windshield (the part that overhangs and secures the turtledeck cover) bends and gouges into the top of the wing. Fwiw, I have a 1 inch overhang of glass from the center of the rear spar attach bolt, (and 1/2 inch on the sides from the edge of the butt rib) The windshield is LP Aero plexiglass. I would anticipate having to round the back corners of the windshield, and possibly tapering the overhang close to the corner too, in order to clear the top of the wing. But that is just my initial idea. 4- The flaperons just barely clear the top of the horizontal stabilizer, scuffing it as they swing back (I have the ribbed horizontal tailfeathers). Not a real big deal as I can hold up pressure on the wing as I fold it back, but the flaperon rests against the inboard horizontal stabilizer fabr ic when folded up, and could possibly damage something if trailered this way. This just doesn't seem right. So, has anyone else had any of these problems??? I find it hard to believe it was engineered this way? But after looking at the manual and really thinking about it, it appears it may have been? I've had four different Avids in the past, and they all folded up easy as can be with none of these issues. Am I missing something? Are there a few tricks or tips I need to be aware of? Is this just because of the wide flaperons? If so, I certainly can't be alone. Any advice, suggestions, or experiences would be appreciated. Thanks. Paul Seehafer Model IV-1200 (basically a long-wing speedster) ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:12:17 AM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Vortex Generators --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" Currently have an aluminum set that we will be testing shortly. Fly Safe !! John & Debra McBean www.sportplanellc.com "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Kaser Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Vortex Generators --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tim Kaser Lets try this again with the correct subject..... Vortex Generators on KF4.......Does anyone have experience finding the sweet spot (line) on the wing? and would you be willing to enlighten me? and/or the list? Eager to learn Tim Kaser N316R KF4-1200 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:21:22 AM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Folding wing troubles! --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" Paul, First I would check wing wash and dihedral. The windshield typically has a lip in the aft corners so the wing will go under... If one was to heat this area and flatten out the lip (some do) it will hit the wing when folding. Fly Safe !! John & Debra McBean www.sportplanellc.com "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Paul Seehafer Subject: Kitfox-List: Folding wing troubles! --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" Ok guys, another problem I don't know what to do about. I'm having wing folding issues with my long wing Model IV-1200. I bought the airplane complete, but it was in need of a lot of TLC. The wings would only fold partly when I purchased it due to the inboard flaperon counterweights hitting the top of the fuselage. So I just removed them to trailer the airplane home. But after repositioning the weights and trying to fold the wings again yesterday, I realize there are a lot of other issues. 1- The flaperon inboard weights still hit the top of the fuselage even after I repositioned them per the manual. So it looks like I have to move them further outboard to something like 80 and 83 inches (vs the 85 and 89 inches the manual states). But I'm concerned about aerodynamic balancing? Or is that no big deal? (I have 2 weights per wing) 2- I can't attach the wing hold down rods that are used to hold the wings in place when trailering because the flaperon is in the way. With the flaperon pivoted 90 degrees it positions the flaperon right between where the attachment rod would need to go from the clip on the wing strut to the flattened tube bolt connection on the bottom of the vertical fin. To make it work I would literally have to make a hole in the flaperon for the rod to go through it, which I obviously don't want to do. So I currently have no way to secure the wing for trailering. (My Kitfox has 10 inch wide flaperons fwiw) Is there a different hold down rod used whenever you have the 10 inch flaperons? 3- When the wings are folded the back corners of the windshield (the part that overhangs and secures the turtledeck cover) bends and gouges into the top of the wing. Fwiw, I have a 1 inch overhang of glass from the center of the rear spar attach bolt, (and 1/2 inch on the sides from the edge of the butt rib) The windshield is LP Aero plexiglass. I would anticipate having to round the back corners of the windshield, and possibly tapering the overhang close to the corner too, in order to clear the top of the wing. But that is just my initial idea. 4- The flaperons just barely clear the top of the horizontal stabilizer, scuffing it as they swing back (I have the ribbed horizontal tailfeathers). Not a real big deal as I can hold up pressure on the wing as I fold it back, but the flaperon rests against the inboard horizontal stabilizer fabric when folded up, and could possibly damage something if trailered this way. This just doesn't seem right. So, has anyone else had any of these problems??? I find it hard to believe it was engineered this way? But after looking at the manual and really thinking about it, it appears it may have been? I've had four different Avids in the past, and they all folded up easy as can be with none of these issues. Am I missing something? Are there a few tricks or tips I need to be aware of? Is this just because of the wide flaperons? If so, I certainly can't be alone. Any advice, suggestions, or experiences would be appreciated. Thanks. Paul Seehafer Model IV-1200 (basically a long-wing speedster) ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:29:18 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Folding wing troubles! From: Lynn Matteson --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson Hi Paul- I've got the Speedster version of the IV-1200, with 10" flaperons, but with just the two weights...one per wing, as was done on the earlier models, I'm told. Item 1: I have the single weight per flap as was supplied in the earlier kits. Items 2 and 4: I had to bend the right-hand rod about 3" out from the fuse attach point to clear the flaperon. The flaperon clears the hort. stab by 1/2", and I have the ribbed hort. stab as well. Item 3: I too have the LP Aeroplastics windshield/skylight, and like others, had to bend the corner of the rear section upwards to clear the folded wing. My dimensions are 5/8" hanging over the wing at the butt rib, and about 3/4" hanging out back, nearly the same as yours. What I did and have seen others do (pictures on request) is to heat and bend the corner up slightly as to provide clearance for the folded wing. I just installed my windshield, and the wings were folded, so this had to be done at that point rather than discover it at a later date...when first folding the wings. The bend is about 1 and 1/2" along each side...in other words the bend resembles a 45 degree triangle with 1 and 1/2" sides adjacent to the 90 degree corner. The bend will raise that corner about 3/4". When I first saw some planes with this bend, I thought it was to clear a wrench for the spar bolt...now I know what it's for. Just as an aside, the (perhaps) differing heights when the wings are folded, is the result of manufacturing differences in the placement of the strut attach points, etc., making each wing fold to different heights...a 1/16" different strut bracket position is a bunch when measured out 144", which my wings are. It could also be errors in the strut attach bracket on the wing, but the bottom line is if the dihedral is correct and equal, all else is irrelevant...I think. : ) Lynn p.s. holler if you want to see pictures of mine or another On Thursday, August 25, 2005, at 10:25 AM, Paul Seehafer wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" > > Ok guys, another problem I don't know what to do about. > > I'm having wing folding issues with my long wing Model IV-1200. > > I bought the airplane complete, but it was in need of a lot of TLC. > The > wings would only fold partly when I purchased it due to the inboard > flaperon > counterweights hitting the top of the fuselage. So I just removed > them to > trailer the airplane home. But after repositioning the weights and > trying > to fold the wings again yesterday, I realize there are a lot of other > issues. > > 1- The flaperon inboard weights still hit the top of the fuselage even > after > I repositioned them per the manual. So it looks like I have to move > them > further outboard to something like 80 and 83 inches (vs the 85 and 89 > inches > the manual states). But I'm concerned about aerodynamic balancing? > Or is > that no big deal? (I have 2 weights per wing) > > 2- I can't attach the wing hold down rods that are used to hold the > wings in > place when trailering because the flaperon is in the way. With the > flaperon > pivoted 90 degrees it positions the flaperon right between where the > attachment rod would need to go from the clip on the wing strut to the > flattened tube bolt connection on the bottom of the vertical fin. To > make > it work I would literally have to make a hole in the flaperon for the > rod to > go through it, which I obviously don't want to do. So I currently > have no > way to secure the wing for trailering. (My Kitfox has 10 inch wide > flaperons fwiw) Is there a different hold down rod used whenever you > have > the 10 inch flaperons? > > 3- When the wings are folded the back corners of the windshield (the > part > that overhangs and secures the turtledeck cover) bends and gouges into > the > top of the wing. Fwiw, I have a 1 inch overhang of glass from the > center of > the rear spar attach bolt, (and 1/2 inch on the sides from the edge of > the > butt rib) The windshield is LP Aero plexiglass. I would anticipate > having > to round the back corners of the windshield, and possibly tapering the > overhang close to the corner too, in order to clear the top of the > wing. > But that is just my initial idea. > > 4- The flaperons just barely clear the top of the horizontal > stabilizer, > scuffing it as they swing back (I have the ribbed horizontal > tailfeathers). > Not a real big deal as I can hold up pressure on the wing as I fold it > back, > but the flaperon rests against the inboard horizontal stabilizer > fabric when > folded up, and could possibly damage something if trailered this way. > This > just doesn't seem right. > > So, has anyone else had any of these problems??? I find it hard to > believe > it was engineered this way? But after looking at the manual and really > thinking about it, it appears it may have been? I've had four > different > Avids in the past, and they all folded up easy as can be with none of > these > issues. Am I missing something? Are there a few tricks or tips I > need to > be aware of? Is this just because of the wide flaperons? If so, I > certainly can't be alone. Any advice, suggestions, or experiences > would be > appreciated. Thanks. > > Paul Seehafer > Model IV-1200 (basically a long-wing speedster) > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:37:16 AM PST US From: "flier" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Folding wing troubles! --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" Paul, Two weights?? I have a long wing 4-1200 and have always only had 1 per wing per Skystar instructions. The speedster with the split flaperons used 2 if I remember correctly. When folded, your flaperons should clear the horiz stab by at least an inch or so. Is your dihedral correct (ie, are the strut to spar brackets in the right places)? Sounds like the wings are sitting low. Only other thing could be the strut carrythru weldment setting a little forward but that's pretty unlikely. Regards, Ted --- Original Message --- From: "Paul Seehafer" Subject: Kitfox-List: Folding wing troubles! >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" > >Ok guys, another problem I don't know what to do about. > >I'm having wing folding issues with my long wing Model IV-1200. > >I bought the airplane complete, but it was in need of a lot of TLC. The >wings would only fold partly when I purchased it due to the inboard flaperon >counterweights hitting the top of the fuselage. So I just removed them to >trailer the airplane home. But after repositioning the weights and trying >to fold the wings again yesterday, I realize there are a lot of other >issues. > >1- The flaperon inboard weights still hit the top of the fuselage even after >I repositioned them per the manual. So it looks like I have to move them >further outboard to something like 80 and 83 inches (vs the 85 and 89 inches >the manual states). But I'm concerned about aerodynamic balancing? Or is >that no big deal? (I have 2 weights per wing) > >2- I can't attach the wing hold down rods that are used to hold the wings in >place when trailering because the flaperon is in the way. With the flaperon >pivoted 90 degrees it positions the flaperon right between where the >attachment rod would need to go from the clip on the wing strut to the >flattened tube bolt connection on the bottom of the vertical fin. To make >it work I would literally have to make a hole in the flaperon for the rod to >go through it, which I obviously don't want to do. So I currently have no >way to secure the wing for trailering. (My Kitfox has 10 inch wide >flaperons fwiw) Is there a different hold down rod used whenever you have >the 10 inch flaperons? > >3- When the wings are folded the back corners of the windshield (the part >that overhangs and secures the turtledeck cover) bends and gouges into the >top of the wing. Fwiw, I have a 1 inch overhang of glass from the center of >the rear spar attach bolt, (and 1/2 inch on the sides from the edge of the >butt rib) The windshield is LP Aero plexiglass. I would anticipate having >to round the back corners of the windshield, and possibly tapering the >overhang close to the corner too, in order to clear the top of the wing. >But that is just my initial idea. > >4- The flaperons just barely clear the top of the horizontal stabilizer, >scuffing it as they swing back (I have the ribbed horizontal tailfeathers). >Not a real big deal as I can hold up pressure on the wing as I fold it back, >but the flaperon rests against the inboard horizontal stabilizer fabric when >folded up, and could possibly damage something if trailered this way. This >just doesn't seem right. > >So, has anyone else had any of these problems??? I find it hard to believe >it was engineered this way? But after looking at the manual and really >thinking about it, it appears it may have been? I've had four different >Avids in the past, and they all folded up easy as can be with none of these >issues. Am I missing something? Are there a few tricks or tips I need to >be aware of? Is this just because of the wide flaperons? If so, I >certainly can't be alone. Any advice, suggestions, or experiences would be >appreciated. Thanks. > >Paul Seehafer >Model IV-1200 (basically a long-wing speedster) > > >_- ====================================================== ====== browse Subscriptions page, FAQ, List >_- ====================================================== ====== > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:42:26 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Folding wing troubles! From: Lynn Matteson --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson Just to provide fodder for further thought, John, my 1994 manual shows one weight for the IV-1200, and two for the Speedster (per wing), while a later 2003 manual shows the two weights only. Does anybody know which came first...does anybody care? : ) Lynn On Thursday, August 25, 2005, at 10:44 AM, kerrjohna@comcast.net wrote: > Also, I believe the dual counterweights were discontinued after the > flaperons were changed to one-piece. > > Hope this helps, > John Kerr ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:07:08 AM PST US From: jareds Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: wing tanks/ethynol --> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds My tanks are brown inside so i assume no Kreme??? Should i consider putting kreme in and are any other people comfortable running ethynol? Now that i am here in the midwest i'ts getting impossible to find gas without it? Definitely cheaper and i get bullk rate if i would choose to get eth. Jim Crowder wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Crowder > >My tanks were flushed with acetone and NOT sloshed with any >sealer. Three years with both auto fuel (with alcohol) and 100LL >aviation fuel the past year and no leaks in the tanks. I did have >the clear tubing for sight gauges fail at connections. I replaced >this tubing with clear vinyl fuel line from auto supply store and it >has worked with no problem or discoloration for a year. It has >mostly sat in the hangar with only a couple of flights as I have too >many projects going on. Retired life is hell. > >Jim Crowder > >At 10:26 AM 8/24/2005, you wrote: > > >>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson >> >>Per Frank Miller @ Skystar, I flushed mine with acetone, DID NOT rinse >>with water, and sloshed with Kreem. The acetone is compatible with the >>Kreem, and water isn't. If you don't dry the water out COMPLETELY, >>you'll have some areas where the Kreem won't stick or worse. Mine were >>also 10-12 years old, and Frank said this method should be done. You're >>lucky, you had not installed your tanks yet...what fun, sloshing tanks >>alone, inside of a 12 ft long wing, inside the garage, in the >>winter....wear breathing protection, or do outside. >> >>Lynn >>On Wednesday, August 24, 2005, at 11:24 AM, jim cantrell wrote: >> >> >> >>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jim cantrell >>> >>>I have new 10 year old tanks that I have removed old kreem with >>>acetone and flushed with water, I can not find any leaks after testing >>>as per manual, question is, to reseal or install as is? >>>Jim Cantrell >>>Series 5 TD >>> >>> > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:10:55 AM PST US From: "Chenoweth" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Folding wing troubles! --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Chenoweth" Paul, On my plane one wing folds low enough that I had to bend the hold down rod on that side to clear the flaperon. I'm not at all sure how this happened but clearly the geometry is different from side to side. That is, the pivot bolt is not at the same angle to the wing on each side. I don't think it was a SkyStar manufacturing problem - rather I think I had something not right when I drilled the spars-to-carry thru holes. Bill IV-1200 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Seehafer" Subject: Kitfox-List: Folding wing troubles! > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" > > Ok guys, another problem I don't know what to do about. > > I'm having wing folding issues with my long wing Model IV-1200. > > I bought the airplane complete, but it was in need of a lot of TLC. The > wings would only fold partly when I purchased it due to the inboard flaperon > counterweights hitting the top of the fuselage. So I just removed them to > trailer the airplane home. But after repositioning the weights and trying > to fold the wings again yesterday, I realize there are a lot of other > issues. > > 1- The flaperon inboard weights still hit the top of the fuselage even after > I repositioned them per the manual. So it looks like I have to move them > further outboard to something like 80 and 83 inches (vs the 85 and 89 inches > the manual states). But I'm concerned about aerodynamic balancing? Or is > that no big deal? (I have 2 weights per wing) > > 2- I can't attach the wing hold down rods that are used to hold the wings in > place when trailering because the flaperon is in the way. With the flaperon > pivoted 90 degrees it positions the flaperon right between where the > attachment rod would need to go from the clip on the wing strut to the > flattened tube bolt connection on the bottom of the vertical fin. To make > it work I would literally have to make a hole in the flaperon for the rod to > go through it, which I obviously don't want to do. So I currently have no > way to secure the wing for trailering. (My Kitfox has 10 inch wide > flaperons fwiw) Is there a different hold down rod used whenever you have > the 10 inch flaperons? > > 3- When the wings are folded the back corners of the windshield (the part > that overhangs and secures the turtledeck cover) bends and gouges into the > top of the wing. Fwiw, I have a 1 inch overhang of glass from the center of > the rear spar attach bolt, (and 1/2 inch on the sides from the edge of the > butt rib) The windshield is LP Aero plexiglass. I would anticipate having > to round the back corners of the windshield, and possibly tapering the > overhang close to the corner too, in order to clear the top of the wing. > But that is just my initial idea. > > 4- The flaperons just barely clear the top of the horizontal stabilizer, > scuffing it as they swing back (I have the ribbed horizontal tailfeathers). > Not a real big deal as I can hold up pressure on the wing as I fold it back, > but the flaperon rests against the inboard horizontal stabilizer fabric when > folded up, and could possibly damage something if trailered this way. This > just doesn't seem right. > > So, has anyone else had any of these problems??? I find it hard to believe > it was engineered this way? But after looking at the manual and really > thinking about it, it appears it may have been? I've had four different > Avids in the past, and they all folded up easy as can be with none of these > issues. Am I missing something? Are there a few tricks or tips I need to > be aware of? Is this just because of the wide flaperons? If so, I > certainly can't be alone. Any advice, suggestions, or experiences would be > appreciated. Thanks. > > Paul Seehafer > Model IV-1200 (basically a long-wing speedster) > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:59:26 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Folding wing troubles! From: "Brett Walmsley" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" I have '95 production Classic IV w/ all the go fast mods and it came w/ 2 weights per. Brett > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson > > Just to provide fodder for further thought, John, my 1994 manual shows > one weight for the IV-1200, and two for the Speedster (per wing), while > a later 2003 manual shows the two weights only. Does anybody know which > came first...does anybody care? : ) > > Lynn > > On Thursday, August 25, 2005, at 10:44 AM, kerrjohna@comcast.net wrote: >> Also, I believe the dual counterweights were discontinued after the >> flaperons were changed to one-piece. >> >> Hope this helps, >> John Kerr > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:04:51 AM PST US From: "John Perry" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: wing tanks/ethynol --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Perry" not to sound to crass about this subject but . WHAT DOES THE ENGINE MANUFACTURER SAY AND THE DESIGNER OF THE TANK. no alcohol . Why would anyone want to risk there life on running E10 in there aircraft when it has rubber fuel lines and rubber gaskets and rubber seals that the alcohol eats up . So my answer is DO NOT RUN ALCOHOL . Of course this is only my opinion and no one made me say this . I can no longer get any premium fuel in our county so am running 100ll.and have had absolutely no problems. I talked to LOCKWOOD AVIATION and they said 100ll is fine just no ALCOHOL. John Perry kitfox 2 N718PD 582 c box ivo inflight 68 inch 2 blade -------Original Message------- From: jareds Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: wing tanks/ethynol --> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds My tanks are brown inside so i assume no Kreme??? Should i consider putting kreme in and are any other people comfortable running ethynol? Now that i am here in the midwest i'ts getting impossible to find gas without it? Definitely cheaper and i get bullk rate if i would choose to get eth. Jim Crowder wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Crowder > >My tanks were flushed with acetone and NOT sloshed with any >sealer. Three years with both auto fuel (with alcohol) and 100LL >aviation fuel the past year and no leaks in the tanks. I did have >the clear tubing for sight gauges fail at connections. I replaced >this tubing with clear vinyl fuel line from auto supply store and it >has worked with no problem or discoloration for a year. It has >mostly sat in the hangar with only a couple of flights as I have too >many projects going on. Retired life is hell. > >Jim Crowder > >At 10:26 AM 8/24/2005, you wrote: > > >>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson >> >>Per Frank Miller @ Skystar, I flushed mine with acetone, DID NOT rinse >>with water, and sloshed with Kreem. The acetone is compatible with the >>Kreem, and water isn't. If you don't dry the water out COMPLETELY, >>you'll have some areas where the Kreem won't stick or worse. Mine were >>also 10-12 years old, and Frank said this method should be done. You're >>lucky, you had not installed your tanks yet...what fun, sloshing tanks >>alone, inside of a 12 ft long wing, inside the garage, in the >>winter....wear breathing protection, or do outside. >> >>Lynn >>On Wednesday, August 24, 2005, at 11:24 AM, jim cantrell wrote: >> >> >> >>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jim cantrell >>> >>>I have new 10 year old tanks that I have removed old kreem with >>>acetone and flushed with water, I can not find any leaks after testing >>>as per manual, question is, to reseal or install as is? >>>Jim Cantrell >>>Series 5 TD >>> >>> > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:21:26 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: wing tanks/ethynol From: kitfox@gto.net --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net I use regualr gas for years in 503 582s 87 octane is what pump says. 100 LL will foul your plugs more plus put lead residue into bearings which is not good. If won't hurt to run 100 LL occasionly But i would not make it my first choice. Ethanol -- i heard of guys running it and had their fuel filter clog up with what ever the ethanol disovled from fuel sysytem. needless to say a forced landing is what happened to them next. Av gas will hold it's octance longer than auto gas but hey i don;t think that rotax 2 strokes beneift from it. Ask a Rotax guy like Bob Robertson to make sure though. Kirby ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Perry" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: wing tanks/ethynol > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Perry" > > not to sound to crass about this subject but . WHAT DOES THE ENGINE > MANUFACTURER SAY AND THE DESIGNER OF THE TANK. no alcohol . Why would anyone > want to risk there life on running E10 in there aircraft when it has rubber > fuel lines and rubber gaskets and rubber seals that the alcohol eats up . > So my answer is DO NOT RUN ALCOHOL . > Of course this is only my opinion and no one made me say this . > I can no longer get any premium fuel in our county so am running 100ll.and > have had absolutely no problems. I talked to LOCKWOOD AVIATION and they said > 100ll is fine just no ALCOHOL. > > John Perry > kitfox 2 N718PD > 582 c box ivo inflight 68 inch 2 blade ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:52:12 PM PST US From: PWilson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: wing tanks/ethynol --> Kitfox-List message posted by: PWilson John McBean, Have you heard if Frank has got the poly tanks in production yet? Regards, Paul ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:52:12 PM PST US From: PWilson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Folding wing troubles! --> Kitfox-List message posted by: PWilson My M4-1200 was one of the last made and has one per side. Paul =============== At 09:43 AM 8/25/2005, you wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson > >Just to provide fodder for further thought, John, my 1994 manual shows >one weight for the IV-1200, and two for the Speedster (per wing), while >a later 2003 manual shows the two weights only. Does anybody know which >came first...does anybody care? : ) > >Lynn > >On Thursday, August 25, 2005, at 10:44 AM, kerrjohna@comcast.net wrote: > > Also, I believe the dual counterweights were discontinued after the > > flaperons were changed to one-piece. > > > > Hope this helps, > > John Kerr > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:52:13 PM PST US From: PWilson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Folding wing troubles! --> Kitfox-List message posted by: PWilson Paul, I only had the problem of the clearance between the ribbed vertical and the flap. I fabricated an extension for the tabs on the vertical that engage the rod that holds up the wing to get the clearance I desired.. Mine has built had clearance with the horizontal. One wing is close but with the rods installed I have adequate clearance. Holler if you need a pic of the fabed extension. All this is required because with the Speedster ribs Skystar uses a different attachment at the vertical for the subject rod and it compensates fro the extra vertical thickness. I have the weights installed per the long wing specs. One per side. Regards, Paul, M4-1200 long wing all Speedster options. ================= At 08:25 AM 8/25/2005, you wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" > >Ok guys, another problem I don't know what to do about. > >I'm having wing folding issues with my long wing Model IV-1200. > >I bought the airplane complete, but it was in need of a lot of TLC. The >wings would only fold partly when I purchased it due to the inboard flaperon >counterweights hitting the top of the fuselage. So I just removed them to >trailer the airplane home. But after repositioning the weights and trying >to fold the wings again yesterday, I realize there are a lot of other >issues. > >1- The flaperon inboard weights still hit the top of the fuselage even after >I repositioned them per the manual. So it looks like I have to move them >further outboard to something like 80 and 83 inches (vs the 85 and 89 inches >the manual states). But I'm concerned about aerodynamic balancing? Or is >that no big deal? (I have 2 weights per wing) > >2- I can't attach the wing hold down rods that are used to hold the wings in >place when trailering because the flaperon is in the way. With the flaperon >pivoted 90 degrees it positions the flaperon right between where the >attachment rod would need to go from the clip on the wing strut to the >flattened tube bolt connection on the bottom of the vertical fin. To make >it work I would literally have to make a hole in the flaperon for the rod to >go through it, which I obviously don't want to do. So I currently have no >way to secure the wing for trailering. (My Kitfox has 10 inch wide >flaperons fwiw) Is there a different hold down rod used whenever you have >the 10 inch flaperons? > >3- When the wings are folded the back corners of the windshield (the part >that overhangs and secures the turtledeck cover) bends and gouges into the >top of the wing. Fwiw, I have a 1 inch overhang of glass from the center of >the rear spar attach bolt, (and 1/2 inch on the sides from the edge of the >butt rib) The windshield is LP Aero plexiglass. I would anticipate having >to round the back corners of the windshield, and possibly tapering the >overhang close to the corner too, in order to clear the top of the wing. >But that is just my initial idea. > >4- The flaperons just barely clear the top of the horizontal stabilizer, >scuffing it as they swing back (I have the ribbed horizontal tailfeathers). >Not a real big deal as I can hold up pressure on the wing as I fold it back, >but the flaperon rests against the inboard horizontal stabilizer fabric when >folded up, and could possibly damage something if trailered this way. This >just doesn't seem right. > >So, has anyone else had any of these problems??? I find it hard to believe >it was engineered this way? But after looking at the manual and really >thinking about it, it appears it may have been? I've had four different >Avids in the past, and they all folded up easy as can be with none of these >issues. Am I missing something? Are there a few tricks or tips I need to >be aware of? Is this just because of the wide flaperons? If so, I >certainly can't be alone. Any advice, suggestions, or experiences would be >appreciated. Thanks. > >Paul Seehafer >Model IV-1200 (basically a long-wing speedster) > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:52:13 PM PST US From: PWilson Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Folding wing troubles! --> Kitfox-List message posted by: PWilson Ah yes Dihedral. Enough said. Private joke. I had lots of dihedral issues. And now I hate the subject. However, after much frustration I am now happy. If Paul's plane has the speedster dihedral (0 deg) then he should adjust it for 1 deg - for sure. Solves a lot of issues. Regards, Paul Good comment John =============== At 09:21 AM 8/25/2005, you wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" > >Paul, > First I would check wing wash and dihedral. The windshield > typically has a >lip in the aft corners so the wing will go under... If one was to heat this >area and flatten out the lip (some do) it will hit the wing when folding. > >Fly Safe !! >John & Debra McBean >www.sportplanellc.com >"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Paul Seehafer >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >Subject: Kitfox-List: Folding wing troubles! > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" > >Ok guys, another problem I don't know what to do about. > >I'm having wing folding issues with my long wing Model IV-1200. > >I bought the airplane complete, but it was in need of a lot of TLC. The >wings would only fold partly when I purchased it due to the inboard flaperon >counterweights hitting the top of the fuselage. So I just removed them to >trailer the airplane home. But after repositioning the weights and trying >to fold the wings again yesterday, I realize there are a lot of other >issues. > >1- The flaperon inboard weights still hit the top of the fuselage even after >I repositioned them per the manual. So it looks like I have to move them >further outboard to something like 80 and 83 inches (vs the 85 and 89 inches >the manual states). But I'm concerned about aerodynamic balancing? Or is >that no big deal? (I have 2 weights per wing) > >2- I can't attach the wing hold down rods that are used to hold the wings in >place when trailering because the flaperon is in the way. With the flaperon >pivoted 90 degrees it positions the flaperon right between where the >attachment rod would need to go from the clip on the wing strut to the >flattened tube bolt connection on the bottom of the vertical fin. To make >it work I would literally have to make a hole in the flaperon for the rod to >go through it, which I obviously don't want to do. So I currently have no >way to secure the wing for trailering. (My Kitfox has 10 inch wide >flaperons fwiw) Is there a different hold down rod used whenever you have >the 10 inch flaperons? > >3- When the wings are folded the back corners of the windshield (the part >that overhangs and secures the turtledeck cover) bends and gouges into the >top of the wing. Fwiw, I have a 1 inch overhang of glass from the center of >the rear spar attach bolt, (and 1/2 inch on the sides from the edge of the >butt rib) The windshield is LP Aero plexiglass. I would anticipate having >to round the back corners of the windshield, and possibly tapering the >overhang close to the corner too, in order to clear the top of the wing. >But that is just my initial idea. > >4- The flaperons just barely clear the top of the horizontal stabilizer, >scuffing it as they swing back (I have the ribbed horizontal tailfeathers). >Not a real big deal as I can hold up pressure on the wing as I fold it back, >but the flaperon rests against the inboard horizontal stabilizer fabric when >folded up, and could possibly damage something if trailered this way. This >just doesn't seem right. > >So, has anyone else had any of these problems??? I find it hard to believe >it was engineered this way? But after looking at the manual and really >thinking about it, it appears it may have been? I've had four different >Avids in the past, and they all folded up easy as can be with none of these >issues. Am I missing something? Are there a few tricks or tips I need to >be aware of? Is this just because of the wide flaperons? If so, I >certainly can't be alone. Any advice, suggestions, or experiences would be >appreciated. Thanks. > >Paul Seehafer >Model IV-1200 (basically a long-wing speedster) > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:58:26 PM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: wing tanks/ethynol --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" Last I knew.. No. I believe they are still using the fiberglass tanks. Fly Safe !! John & Debra McBean www.sportplanellc.com "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of PWilson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: wing tanks/ethynol --> Kitfox-List message posted by: PWilson John McBean, Have you heard if Frank has got the poly tanks in production yet? Regards, Paul ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:58:26 PM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Folding wing troubles! --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" 2 weights.. one per side came first.. then 2 per side. Currently 2 per side is what is used. I do not believe the larger single weight is available anymore. Fly Safe !! John & Debra McBean www.sportplanellc.com "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Folding wing troubles! --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson Just to provide fodder for further thought, John, my 1994 manual shows one weight for the IV-1200, and two for the Speedster (per wing), while a later 2003 manual shows the two weights only. Does anybody know which came first...does anybody care? : ) Lynn On Thursday, August 25, 2005, at 10:44 AM, kerrjohna@comcast.net wrote: > Also, I believe the dual counterweights were discontinued after the > flaperons were changed to one-piece. > > Hope this helps, > John Kerr ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:56:21 PM PST US From: "John Anderson" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Return Springs --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" Most of the f/wing a/c I've flown over the years have cable operated controls all over, good but must be well maintained then no bother. From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Return Springs --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson I slept on this idea last night, Michel, and I just cringed at the thought of using a choke-type cable and housing for a rudder control. It just seemed too stiff and not of the right material. I know that you know of boating material that might be suited to this application, but that sounds like a cable and housing, and we're right back where we started, it seems. Lynn On Wednesday, August 24, 2005, at 05:32 PM, Michel Verheughe wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > >Lynn Matteson wrote: >>Wouldn't have to be,Michel....it could be like model planes do and >>have >>a long rod (like the elevator on the Kitfox) actuate a horn on the >>side >>of the rudder, but a lot of model guys (me included) like the idea of >>pull-pulls, and toss the rod and horn and use kevlar thread on their >>models attached to two rudder horns, just like our 'foxes. The >>geometry >>gets a little involved sometimes, but no biggie. > >Of course, Lynn. But I was thinking about replacing the existing >cables by thin >rods in sleeves, like what we have as choke or carb heater controls. >Not a >thick rod like for the elevator. Wouldn't that remove the need for a >return >spring and prevent the fraying of the wire, as it happened for >Johannes? Just wondering. > >Cheers, >Michel > > Need a new job? Check out XtraMSN Careers http://xtramsn.co.nz/careers ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:58:28 PM PST US From: "Marwynne" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re Landing gear bungy cords. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Marwynne" I called Skystar and they were out of the bungy cords for the model 4. They would not give me a delivery date. Does anyone one know the diamater and the lenght of the bungy cords for a model iv. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of randy bortree Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re Landing gear bungy cords. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "randy bortree" Sky Star is out of Kit Fox 1 bungys for about two weeks Randy > [Original Message] > From: John Perry > To: > Date: 8/18/2005 7:57:25 AM > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re Landing gear bungy cords. > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Perry" > > YEAH CALL SKYSTAR AND ORDER A NEW SET > John Perry > -------Original Message------- > > From: ROBERT E SIMON > Date: 08/18/05 00:28:38 > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re Landing gear bungy cords. > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: ROBERT E SIMON > > Hi folks, > I think that it is time to replace the landing gear cords on my model IV. > Please advise. > > > Bob Simon > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 04:31:07 PM PST US From: "Marwynne" Subject: Kitfox-List: Bungee Cords Size and Length for a Model IV. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Marwynne" Does anyone on the list have the Bungee Chord Size and lenth for a Model IV Kitfox ? Your advice would be apprecited. I ordered a set for Skystar but they were out of stock. I am needing to take a flight and am grounded. The cord covering have become frayed but still seem to be functional. I would prefer to replace them . - ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 04:42:10 PM PST US From: "Brian Rodgers" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: wing tanks/ethynol --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brian Rodgers" I understand that there are quite a few Brazilians burning ethAnol in "there" planes risking "there" lives. Perhaps (I'm going out on a limb here) they PREPARED "there" aircraft to use that fuel by eliminating fuel system components which are not compatible with ethanol. There are A LOT of materials which are not compatible with gasoline, so we don't use 'em in our fuel systems. Just select compatible materials. Brian ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: wing tanks/ethynol > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net > > I use regualr gas for years in 503 582s 87 octane is what pump says. > > 100 LL will foul your plugs more plus put lead residue into bearings > which is not good. > If won't hurt to run 100 LL occasionly But i would not make it my > first choice. > > Ethanol -- i heard of guys running it and had their fuel filter clog > up with what ever the ethanol disovled from fuel sysytem. > needless to say a forced landing is what happened to them next. > > Av gas will hold it's octance longer than auto gas but hey i don;t > think that rotax 2 strokes beneift from it. > Ask a Rotax guy like Bob Robertson to make sure though. > > > Kirby > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Perry" > To: > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: wing tanks/ethynol > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Perry" > > > > not to sound to crass about this subject but . WHAT DOES THE ENGINE > > MANUFACTURER SAY AND THE DESIGNER OF THE TANK. no alcohol . Why would > anyone > > want to risk there life on running E10 in there aircraft when it has > rubber > > fuel lines and rubber gaskets and rubber seals that the alcohol eats > up . > > So my answer is DO NOT RUN ALCOHOL . > > Of course this is only my opinion and no one made me say this . > > I can no longer get any premium fuel in our county so am running > 100ll.and > > have had absolutely no problems. I talked to LOCKWOOD AVIATION and > they said > > 100ll is fine just no ALCOHOL. > > > > John Perry > > kitfox 2 N718PD > > 582 c box ivo inflight 68 inch 2 blade > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:32:09 PM PST US From: "daniel johnson" Subject: Kitfox-List: Float Rigging...if you have floats have a look --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "daniel johnson" HI all. For those of you with floats, i could still really use some measurements to get me in the ballpark on my installation. After talking with skystar i'm aware i'm going to have to make up my rigging and make adjustments after i see results. I've got some solid methods on some measurements, but will have to see what is average for others. I am aware so far that 1) Aircraft CG is to be ahead of step by 1/3 the width of float at widest point. Several good sources on this one. 2) Top line of the float should be mounted approx 5-7 degrees angle to wing chordline...skystar uses shims during float testing to fine tune performance. (Tail Low) 3) Spreader bars are approx 64" between floats. This is based on Full Lotus. My avid floats will have original spreader bars intact, so this wont be much of a problem. 4) SKystar gave me a very rough estimate of approx 2 feet between float topline and fuselage lower longeron....this might be a little low...would REALLY APPRECIATE it someone could measure their setup on a kitfox 1-4 for this diminsion. 5) I'm hoping to use original strut attach points based on avid float design if they can be distinguished...where are your attach points located.???..maybe relative to CG or step. 6)I'm going to be using streamline strut material...would like to know what diameter/wall thickness is common of anyone knows. 7) Lastly...any photos of water rudder rigging?" (cables/pulley location etc...i have dual rudders) I've asked a lot of questions here, i know. Hope some of you can give me a ballpark idea based on your installations. Thanks, Dan Johnson ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 10:54:01 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: wing tanks/ethynol --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan At 10:21 AM 8/25/2005, you wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfox@gto.net > >I use regualr gas for years in 503 582s 87 octane is what pump says. I'm curious. How do you run auto gas? Is it available at your airport? Or do you cart it in to fill the Kit? I'm going to store mine at the airport. I don't believe I have much of a choice beyond 100LL. If I fly around and fill up at airports here and there, will I have a choice beyond 100LL and Jet-A? >100 LL will foul your plugs more plus put lead residue into bearings >which is not good. >If won't hurt to run 100 LL occasionly But i would not make it my >first choice. ... >Kirby Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.